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Isa Soares Tonight
Witkoff Set to Meet Putin in Moscow Friday; Trump Gives Mixed Messaged on China Tariffs; Final Journey of Pope Francis. Trump Meets with Norway's Prime Minister and Finance Minister in Washington. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired April 24, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I see the results, it's horrible. It's a killing field. Five thousand soldiers a week on average.
And we want to stop that. We both want to stop that for a lot of reasons, but I would say that is my number one reason.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Russia, that people get Russia to accept a deal, that also Ukraine and Europe is willing to --
TRUMP: I think so, yes, I do. I believe they will accept and I think we're going to get this over with, I hope so, soon.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Right --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you continue to lack support from NATO allies, and your goal of obtaining Greenland? How will you proceed if you don't get
that support?
TRUMP: Well, Greenland is going to interesting, but that's for another day. I think we need that for international peace --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you expecting from your allies --
TRUMP: And if you don't have that, I think it's a big threat to our world. So, I think Greenland is very important for international peace. Yes,
please go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, this morning in, I think social post, you used the words Vladimir, stop. That seemed like a slightly different
message, a personal message. What is your level of frustration with President Putin?
TRUMP: I didn't like last night. I wasn't happy with it. And we're in the midst of talking peace and missiles were fired. And I wasn't happy with it.
That's what I meant. And that's -- you know, what --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: I assume that's what you mean.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry --
TRUMP: Yes, if they --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the bombs keep falling, will you consider additional sanctions toward Russia, or what will you do if President Putin --
TRUMP: I'd rather answer that question in a week. I want to see if we can have a deal. No reason to answer it now, but I won't be happy. Let me put
it that way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Things will happen --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, why are you not putting more pressure on Russia? I know a lot of Europeans --
TRUMP: Putting a lot of pressure. You don't know what pressure I'm putting on Russia. They're dealing. You have no idea what pressure I'm putting on
Russia. We're putting a lot of pressure --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you maybe tell us something --
TRUMP: We're putting a lot of pressure on Russia, and Russia knows that. And some people that are close to it know, or he wouldn't be talking right
now. The Prime Minister understands that better than anybody. He wouldn't be talking right now. He's talking, and we're putting a lot of pressure. I
think he wants to make a deal. We're going to find out very soon.
But it takes two to tango, and you have to have Ukraine want to make a deal, too, and they're being hit very hard. And I do believe they want to
make a deal.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President -- ask the President --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That the Ukraine have to give some territory to win peace, among them Crimea. Do you stand by that, and I know that the NATO --
former NATO General-Secretary today has told you that he does not agree and he believes the territorial integrity of the -- Ukraine. How would you deal
with that with your allies?
TRUMP: Well --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And do you stand by that Ukraine have to give --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Former Secretary General happens to be right here, you know, so they can't put words in his mouth. He's a -- he's been a great -- he's been
a great General, frankly, it was -- because that's what you are, really, you are a General. But he's been a great Secretary-General. We had a
tremendous relationship, very successful. And I think he could speak for himself. He's right here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But do you still agree that Ukraine have to give some territory away to win peace?
TRUMP: Well, it depends what territory. They've been fighting. They've lost a lot of territory. And we'll get -- we'll do the best we can working
with Ukraine. We'll do the best we can. But they lost a lot of territory. When you say Crimea, that was handed over during a President named Barack
Hussein Obama, that was -- had nothing to do with me -- Crimea.
That was 11 years ago with Obama. And they made a decision. There wasn't a bullet fired. There was no fighting. There was no anything. They just
handed it over. Now they say, well, can you get it back? I think that's going to be a very difficult thing to do. That was given by Barack Obama
when he was President, not by Donald Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That you put on the table to 30-day ceasefire proposal and the national security team presented it to both Ukraine and Russia. Two
months ago, Ukraine agreed to that ceasefire proposal immediately. Russia has not. And my question is, is Russia the obstacle to peace based upon
that? Just getting to that 30-day ceasefire?
TRUMP: I don't think so. I think that they both want peace right now. They're ready to do something. We'll see what happens. Complicated. Very
complicated. But I think they are both very much looking to make a deal. Marco, what would you say?
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE, UNITED STATES: Well, first of all, the -- what was put before our partners was options to discuss about things that
it would take to end a war. This war is endable. Both sides just have to agree to it. We've shown them a pathway forward. We've discussed those
ideas. It was a good meeting yesterday, there will be good meetings over the weekend.
[14:05:00]
We've shown them the finish line. We need both of them to say yes. But what happened last night with those missile strikes should remind everybody of
why this war needs to end. It's horrible those missiles landed. What's even worse, is there are today people that were alive yesterday that are not
alive today because this war continues, and the President wants to stop it.
And everyone should be thanking the President for being a peacemaker and trying to save lives. That's what we're trying to do here. It's not our
war. We didn't start it, as you know. It's -- but we're trying to end the dying. We're trying to end the destruction. And we've shown a path forward.
We can see the finish line, but both of them have to get there, we're going to do everything we can to help them get there. But they have to ultimately
say yes, both of them --
TRUMP: And we are using a lot of pressure on both. You know, if you think we're just in there because we're nice people -- and we are nice people,
but we're using a lot of pressure up there --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What concessions, Mr. President -- and to your national security team, what concessions has Russia offered up thus far to get to
the point where you're closer to peace?
TRUMP: Stopping the war, stopping, taking the whole country. Pretty big concession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, if you are going to take down the terrorists, what do you want Norway to buy more from U.S.?
TRUMP: To buy more? Well, you don't need snow.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: You don't need skis, you don't need ski champions either, right? You have a lot of them. We just want to keep the relationship the way it
is. We have -- we've had a great relationship, I think now maybe closer than ever. But we've had a great relationship with Norway. I think just
keep it the way it is, you can't -- you can't do better.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really? Not even by, say --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Well, if they want to give us some additional concessions, that's OK.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: You can't do much better. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, you had a long meeting with Norway today. You said that Norway is doing a lot of things right, but on the --
Ukraine, if I can ask both you and the Prime Minister, did you find common ground today on Ukraine and the peace plan?
TRUMP: Totally. It's totally common ground. The Prime Minister can speak about it, but I can just say he wants to see people stop dying more than
anything else. And he'd like to see it end. He's going to -- he's going to help us end it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
(CROSSTALK)
JONAS GAHR STORE, PRIME MINISTER, NORWAY: Can I -- can I say that to move towards an end of this war, U.S. engagement is critical, and President
Trump made that possible. That is clear. That is obvious. It's really happening. Now, the important thing is that both parties have to know that
they have to deliver, and they have to feel the pressure to deliver.
Ukraine is under attack. They are defending themselves. Lives are being lost. And we believe very firmly that there needs to be a ceasefire. The
initiative taken by the U.S. some time ago, it needs to be respected. And then to move on to something which both parties can own. That is the
complicated part.
The part in such a dramatic war. And here, I believe Europeans and Americans working together as we do much closer now. And I salute the team
of President Trump, of being, you know, open in that process. We had a good discussion on this today. And then we have to move on. And we cannot lose
time because this is too much drama happening.
One thing is people losing their lives, but it is a bad thing for Europe, and it's a bad thing for the world to having such a broad conflict going
on. It can have ramifications far beyond Ukraine.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, if -- I forgot my question --
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wanted to ask about --
TRUMP: It's all right, it can happen to the best --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It happens sometimes, yes -- no, Mr. President, I wanted to ask about the -- well, actually, Zelenskyy has said that he wants
more Patriot missiles, so far, there has been no response from the United States. If you and the United States decides to pull out of negotiating for
peace, trying to invoke a peace, does that also mean a no on Patriot missiles, a no on sharing Intelligence with Ukraine?
TRUMP: Let's see what happens. I think we're going to make a deal. And if we make a deal, that will be wonderful. We won't have to worry about your
question. You can ask that question in two weeks and we'll see. But I think we're getting very close. The Prime Minister feels the same way, and we'll
hopefully not have to answer that question.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said what is --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, well, Norway is the third country to be officially invited to the White House after Liberation Day? Why did you
invite Norway so soon to the White House?
TRUMP: Because I like them. And I like your Prime Minister, and I like the way your government runs. And I respect the king. He's highly respected in
Norway. It's a great thing, not an easy thing to do. And he's done, he's done a great job. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you like an invitation to visit the king?
TRUMP: Absolutely, you get me that invitation.
STORE: I just told the President, he's welcome to visit Norway.
[14:10:00]
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Trump, (INAUDIBLE) --
TRUMP: Yes, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you said before that you like the Norwegian Petroleum Fund, and I'm wondering is that -- is that been up for discussion
today in a way that we have structured our weather?
TRUMP: Please --
STORE: Well, this fund was created in the late 1990s to save for future generations the income from our oil and gas. Norwegians should continue to
work as hard, dedicated, innovate and move forward. Despite having these incomes, which we happen to be in the period of our history where we can
harvest, and we have transferred that into investments.
Half of them, by the way, here in the United States. So, I think this is a model which we have been able to explore if we can share experiences, and
we do with our colleagues in the U.S. You never copy this 1 to 1, but there can be techniques and way of working that we have used in organizing our
fund.
Jens Stoltenberg was the Finance Minister when the first dollar entered that fund. So, he is a safe hand to have as a Finance Minister today. What
do you say?
JENS STOLTENBERG, MINISTER OF FINANCE, NORWAY: No, and as you said, Mr. Prime Minister, we are ready to sit down with the U.S. to also work with
them if they want to establish a sovereign wealth fund, because we have a good experience with our fund. And I think that one example of how we work
together with the United States is that, half of the fund, close to $1 trillion USD., are invested in the United States, mainly in equity, but
also some in fixed income, including government bonds.
So, this is an expression of trust in the United States, expressed by the strong investment of the Sovereign Wealth Fund. Just briefly on Ukraine,
since it was mentioned, we had a very good and extensive discussion about Ukraine. The path forward to peace, and as the Prime Minister said, we
commend the U.S. for pushing forward to try to find a negotiated solution.
At the same time, we need to continue to support Ukraine, and therefore, I'm proud that Norway has actually tripled the military support to Ukraine.
And this year, we will allocate close to $8 billion USD to Ukraine, that will strengthen them and also hand on the negotiating table.
STORE: If I may add to that, you know, if there is a peace, and there will be a peace, we have a common responsibility in securing democratic Ukraine
for the future, and the best security guarantee they can have is the ability to defend themselves, and we are investing in that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Prime Minister --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I may, as it relates to tariffs, Mr. President, when you unveiled your reciprocal tariffs on April the 2nd, the tariff rate for
Norway was 15 percent. Based upon your conversations that you've had today with the Prime Minister. Do you see that tariff rate coming down from what
you proposed just a few weeks ago?
TRUMP: Well, they have a great fund of $2 trillion. It's a big fund, and they don't have any debt. So, I think they'd probably be willing to pay us
more than that, I hope.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are determination an agreement of which --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Yes --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-eighteen, your former Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, called for an end to Russian occupation of Crimea. Why does this
administration -- why has this administration changed its stance on territorial concessions for Kremlin?
TRUMP: Well, the war started, it would have never started if I were President. This is a war that is a horrible, a horrible -- that all wars
are horrible. This one is in particular bad. And I don't know that you can ever say there's going to be a winner to this, because so many lives have
been lost, not only soldiers. I mean, a lot of lives have been lost.
I think that we want to do one very simple thing. It would have never happened if I were President. Zero chance it was going to -- and it didn't.
You know, people say, how do you know that? Number one, it didn't happen. We never even discussed it. I would talk to Putin about it. It was the
apple of his eye.
You know, Ukraine was the apple of Putin's eye. But we never -- there was never even a thought that he'd go in. And I think he understood that I
would not be happy if he did. And it was only when I got out -- and, you know, when you mentioned what happened to Ukraine years ago under President
Obama and a Vice President, that was also President later, unfortunately for this country, what happened is large chunks of land were given up and
it was called Crimea.
And that was a big -- that was a big thing. That was a big moment. But this isn't my war. This is Biden's war. This is a war that Biden was President
when this war happened. But I'm trying to put out the fire, and I think we'll be successful. And if we do, we're going to save a lot of lives.
Otherwise -- and the Prime Minister had a statement, he said this is just a point in time. We're very lucky because this is a point. And if this
doesn't happen, this could go on for a long time.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, will you -- will you have meetings with other world leaders when you're in Rome, sir --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Future Democrat President.
[14:15:00]
TRUMP: I don't think he will. I think he wants to make peace. I think he wants to end it. And I feel pretty confident of that. But we're going to --
we're going to know pretty soon.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President -- would you have meetings -- would you have meetings with other world leaders when you're in Rome?
TRUMP: Yes, I will.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which leaders do you want to meet, sir?
TRUMP: Well, I'd like to meet them all. That would be nice. I'd like to take care of all of them, but we have many of them there, and they all want
to meet. They want to meet about trade, and we are making some great in- roads and great deals. You might want to speak about that, Mr. Secretary.
SCOTT BESSENT, SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY, UNITED STATES: We had a very successful bilateral meeting with the Republic of South Korea today. We may
be moving faster than I thought, and we will be talking technical terms as early as next week as we reach an agreement on understanding as soon as
next week. So, South Koreans came early. They came with their A-game. And we will see if they follow through on that.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think you deserve a Nobel Peace Prize if you manage a Ukraine peace --
TRUMP: Do I deserve the Nobel Peace --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you manage Ukraine peace deal?
TRUMP: Well, maybe for the Abraham Accords. I don't want to get ahead of myself on this one. But they say for the Abraham Accords -- and by the way,
speaking of that, we're going to be filling it up. A lot of countries want to come into the Abraham Accords. You know, we have four and Biden did
nothing on that one, too. It's the same four.
But they're great countries, and they were brave doing it, and it's worked out very well, and we're going to be filling up the Abraham Accords.
They're going to be -- I think filling it up --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Very rapidly --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Marco, could you -- could you say something about that?
RUBIO: There's great, enormous opportunity to grow the Abraham Accords. But I would just point to one thing. Of all the leaders in the world today,
no leader is working harder to prevent wars or end them than President Trump is right now. I mean, we're trying -- that's why we're talking to
Iran. That's why we're engaged with Ukraine and Russia.
It's the desire to prevent these wars from breaking out, and to end the ones that exist already. And again, I just think it's tremendous for our
country to be led by a President who desires to bring peace and establish peace and protect peace. So, it's hard work.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: You know, Marco just mentioned something that maybe we should talk about for just a second, if we could, Mr. Prime Minister, and you're
involved in it too, because you've been involved in the world and peace. But I think we're doing very well with respect to Iran, and we're having
very serious meetings, and there are only two options.
And the one option is not a good option. It's not a -- not a good option at all. And I think we're doing very well on an agreement with Iran. But that
one, we're doing a lot of things, I will say, but that one is well on its way. We could have a very good decision. And a lot of lives will be saved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Yes --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, on the economy, there was a slowdown as it relates to home sales in the month of March, the slowest pace since
2009. Is that an economic indicator or perhaps the Treasury Secretary can weigh in on this as well. Is that an economic indicator that concerns you
about the broader U.S. economy?
TRUMP: No, they had very good numbers on housing today, extremely good numbers. And that's despite interest rates because, you know, if you look
at what happened, everyone said, oh -- I said I was going to get prices down, I did. Energy just hit $1.98 in a couple of states. It's way down,
energy is down and we're about $64 a barrel.
When I came in and we were looking at $89, $90, $95 -- and by the way, that helps us solve the war too, having those energy prices is a big -- a big
incentive for Russia to also agree with solving the war problem. Groceries are down. When I was with you two months ago, you were -- you were
complaining about eggs, I said, I just got here.
I've been here for -- I was here for about a week when the -- when the press started saying about eggs have gone through the roof, I said, I just
got here, tell me about eggs. And they have been. They were -- they went through the roof and you couldn't get them. So, we just had a big Easter
egg hunt at the White House. Thousands and thousands of eggs, and the price was down 87 percent.
So, we did a great job. Housing is doing very well. We should lower interest rates, that's the Fed. I hope they lower interest rates, that's
the smart thing to do. Be ahead a little bit, although, already it's a little bit late. But in the end, we just have a great country. We have a
very strong country and we have every other country -- I can't think of one country that doesn't want to negotiate a deal.
And they either negotiate a deal or we set a deal that we think is fair, because we don't have to go through all of these -- it would be physically
impossible. You know, you have so many people that really understand it, which is a very small group of people here. And we are going to -- at some
point, just set prices for deals.
[14:20:00]
Some will be tariffed, some treated us very unfairly, they'll be tariffed higher than others. But we've been ripped off for many years. The United
States has been ripped off like no country, probably in the history of the world, has been ripped off for 45, 50 years. And countries have gotten rich
by doing that with the United States.
We've taken care of their militaries and militaries and other subject we talk about. We're not going to make that subject to any of the deals. But
you know -- you know the same countries that I do where we virtually take care of their military and then don't get treated fairly on trade. So, the
people -- and I don't blame those countries. I blame the people that sat at that beautiful desk right behind you, because those people didn't do the
job for this country, and they let us lose $4 billion a day on trade.
We were losing $4 billion or $5 billion a day on trade when I got here. And now, we're going to be much better than breaking even. And we're going to
be making $4 billion or $5 billion a day on trade. So -- but the -- I don't blame any country. Not the worst. I mean, we were abused by countries. I
blame the President of the United States that happened to be sitting when these deals were made. Disgraceful.
When I was here, we had a great four years. We had the most successful economy in the history of our country -- my first term. And we were very
tough on trade. And with China, as you know, they paid hundreds of billions of dollars in tariffs, but nobody else ever did that. China paid not 10
cents to any other president, and they -- but not only China, virtually every country got away with murder. And we just can't let that happen.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you very much, appreciate it --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, guys, thank you guys for now --
TRUMP: Thank you very much --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, thanks, everybody, head out, head out. Please start moving. Thank you. Thanks everybody.
ERICA HILL, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: So, some wide-ranging comments there from President Trump. He, of course, is seated next to the Prime Minister
of Norway. We did not hear a lot from the Prime Minister. Most of those questions were in fact directed at the President, did also hear some words
from Norway's Finance Minister, who was, of course, the former head of NATO, Jens Stoltenberg.
Let's just recap real quickly for you what we heard there. Understandably, a lot of questions about Ukraine and how that figured in the conversations
between the President and the Prime Minister today, Norway, of course, a great supporter of Ukraine, and that was stressed in this meeting. In fact,
Jens Stoltenberg noting that Norway had actually tripled its commitment, and it will be the equivalent of some $8 billion U.S. this year.
Also talking about the importance of getting a deal done, which President Trump said as well, saying that he believes that both parties want to get a
deal done, admitting that he was not happy with Putin, which was the reason that he posted on social media for him to stop overnight. When asked what
he would do, he just said, basically, watch this space, and he expects to have some sort of an answer within a week, and that it is time for a deal.
I want to bring in, I believe we have -- is Kevin Liptak available at the White House? He is. There you are --
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes --
HILL: Kevin.
(LAUGHTER)
HILL: Always have to double check in these moments, because I know we're all in high demand coming out of these live events. So, I will say and
correct me if I'm wrong here, but it did really feel like the meat of these questions and the meat of this moment there in the Oval Office was all
about a potential deal to end the war in Ukraine. It didn't feel like there was a lot of --
LIPTAK: Right --
HILL: News necessarily. The President didn't want to reveal too much. But is it your sense that things are actually moving based on those
conversations?
LIPTAK: I don't think so. And you hear the President say there that he's optimistic that these two sides actually want to reach a deal, but I'm not
sure what he sees in the behavior of Vladimir Putin and of Russia overnight with that bombardment of Kyiv. That gives him that kind of optimism that
Putin does, in fact, want to strike an agreement.
And so, certainly, the President is trying to sort of put a positive spin in some ways on these efforts that he has been undertaking to bridge the
gap between these two countries to try and bring the fighting to an end. But I don't think -- you know, I don't think he can paper over the
frustration that he feels that he hasn't been able to bring this conflict to a resolution.
Remember, he said he would be able to fix it and bring the war to an end within 24 hours of taking office. We're now approaching the 100th day of
his second administration, and it doesn't appear as if the two sides are willing to come together. Ukraine has rejected this proposal that the
United States has offered that would essentially force it to cede all of the territory that it's lost to Russia in exchange for some very vague
security guarantees.
[14:25:00]
The President in that Oval Office spray, did acknowledge that he thought that Ukraine would have to give up some of the land that it's lost. He said
that it depends on what territory. He says that they have lost a lot of territory, and he tried to make the claim that the Crimean Peninsula had
been handed over during the Obama administration.
Of course, the Crimean Peninsula was illegally annexed by Russia in 2014. No one actually handed it over to Moscow. So, he is in some ways, I think,
papering over what actually happened there. It was also interesting when he was asked what concessions he was asking for, from Russia as part of this
agreement, and the only one that he could point to was that they would have to stop the war and stop taking over the entirety of Ukraine.
He said that, that was a pretty big concession, essentially saying that if this war was to continue, they would just keep going, and that they would
take over the entire country, sort of propping up this idea that the lines, the battle lines that currently exist in Ukraine are where they should be
drawn, sort of on a final point.
And so, you're right, I don't think that there was a lot that we learned from the spray. But I do think it is all evidence of where the President's
head is at at this fraught moment in this conflict.
HILL: Yes, absolutely. That stood out to me as well in terms of the question about concessions that have been offered by Russia. Kevin,
appreciate it. Also joining us now, CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier. Kim, let's pick up where we just left off there. So, this very clear
question, what concessions have been offered by Russia?
He says, stopping the war, taking the entire country. Just a short time before that, the President was asked, is Russia the obstacle to peace? And
he said, I don't think so. To Kevin's point, it does --
KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes --
HILL: Perhaps solidify what has been seen as President Trump's position for some time.
DOZIER: Yes, you know, it was a very strange discordant moment when Marco Rubio and then President Trump last week said that we're running out of
patience and running out of time, because just before that, there were talks in Paris, there were talks in London, and Ukrainian officials thought
things were going pretty well.
And yes, they rejected this first proposed peace plan from the U.S. But they said, look, I spoke to a Ukrainian official briefed on the talks today
who said, look, at least, we got a plan from them. So, the Ukrainian strategy right now is just to put their heads down and keep trying to make
progress while this rhetorical back-and-forth goes on in public.
They think they're making some progress talking to State Department officials and European officials. But I think one of the sticking points
for Ukraine is going to be, even if they say yes to this U.S. notion, that the U.S. would legally recognize Russia's annexation of Crimea, though
Ukraine wouldn't have to. They still want security guarantees.
They want a European peacekeeping force of some sort that European and British officials have offered to be on the ground in Ukraine as a
roadblock to a future Russian invasion. And so far, that hasn't come up. It doesn't look like the Trump administration or Trump himself are supporting
that.
So, at this point, what we're hearing from the Oval Office is still very pro-Putin. We don't see Putin being asked to make any major sacrifices,
even as the Ukrainians remain, sort of beetling down and knuckling down on the talks behind closed doors.
HILL: Yes, it's so interesting, too, because one thing we did hear from the Prime Minister, right, is he did say that -- you know, he noted again,
Ukraine is the one who is under -- is the party here that is under attack. And he talked about the importance of first, a ceasefire and then, in his
words, something both parties can agree on.
But he talked about how important it is that this would be a bad thing for Europe if it continued, and for the world, to have this broad conflict --
DOZIER: Yes --
HILL: Continuing, that is not something that was necessarily picked up on by U.S. officials. I also thought it was interesting, Kim, and I want to
get your take on this. There was a question specifically to the President of where the change came from when it came to Crimea, and the reporter was
referencing comments from, I believe it was 2018, from then Secretary of State Mike Pompeo during the first Trump administration, when they said
that the United States would not recognize Crimea as part of Russia.
The President did not answer that question, he seemed in some ways a little bit confused by it, as if the annexation, right, Russia's land-grab of
Crimea had actually happened during the current war. But again, didn't address it. And that too, I think, is telling.
DOZIER: Yes, you know, Crimea was seized during the Obama administration, and it was sort of an overnight operation, a surprise operation. That when
Ukraine realized what had happened, they reached out to their allies and basically got the signal from the Obama White House and European capitals
that there would be no backup if they tried to challenge Russia and seize Crimea.
So, the Ukraine administration, at that time, has been on the record saying, you know, we had to give up on Crimea because we wouldn't get any
backup from European officials, and most of all, from the White House.
Fast forward, you know, in the first Trump administration you had the neocons and the traditional GOP that was pro-democracy. And of course,
Pompeo would say, we can't allow Russia to just annex Crimea without us protesting it. This is the real Trump administration in many ways. You
know, Trump unleashed with many of his America first advisers who are not so wedded to that traditional support of democratic nations and democratic
growth around the globe, and they're saying, you know, what's in it for us?
It would be good for the U.S. to reopen trade with Russia, to offset China. Therefore, let's get this Ukraine situation cleared up. And so, it's a much
more transactional approach and that's why for Trump, Crimea is yesterday's news and he doesn't care that for Zelenskyy -- he doesn't care that the
country is under martial law and therefore, the constitution of Ukraine does not allow Ukraine to recognize the annexation of Crimea, and you can't
open up and vote on the constitution during a time of martial law, which will continue as long as there's a war.
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Exactly. Those details kind of important. Kim, always good to talk to you. Thank you.
DOZIER: Thank you.
HILL: CNN Fred Pleitgen is monitoring the developments for us now from Moscow. Fred, what more are you hearing and what are we hearing overall in
Russia tonight?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, I think one of the things that we have to keep in mind as we
heard President Trump speak there at that press conference is that in just a couple of hours from now, Steve Witkoff, the president's negotiator, is
set to be touching down here in Moscow with what most believe is going to be another meeting with Vladimir Putin, where, obviously, the Trump
administration is going to try to push forward that idea of a ceasefire and try to continue to get the Russians on board.
And I think one of the things that the Russians have realized is that they really are in the driver's seat in this -- in that situation. It seemed to
me as though the president, in that press conference just now, was trying to tread very carefully especially as far as those strikes last night on
Ukraine were concerned where he said, look, he didn't like the fact or -- at all that these strikes were taking place as they were trying to talk
about peace, as they were trying to talk about a ceasefire to have these strikes take place, and that if things did not happen quickly, that the
world would see what exactly President Trump would do, and that that there would be consequences for that without actually laying out what exactly
that would be.
And I think that's something that we've seen a lot from the Trump administration over the past couple of weeks and months as they've been
trying to push a ceasefire deal forward, is that the Trump administration has acknowledged that they believe that the Russians really are the ones,
as President Trump himself said, who have the cards in all of this.
They believe that sanctions don't scare the Russians. Certainly, that's something that the Russians have said as well, that the threat of
additional sanctions on Russia if a peace deal doesn't come together is not really something that they're too concerned about because they are already
under such tough sanctions as is. And of course, have relations with countries like China where they could offset sanctions in the future.
But the Russians are saying that to them victory and a good result for them as far, as they're concerned, in Ukraine is the main thing. That's the
thing that they are working towards and that's certainly also something that they are telling the Trump administration as well.
I was able to speak to a senior senator here in Moscow earlier today and he said, look, the thing that the Trump administration needs to understand is
that for the Russians, what's going on in Ukraine right now is key and everything that happens around it is going to be key as well.
And what we've heard in the past 24 hours or so is the Putin administration, not only saying that they want to keep the territory that
they have so far gained in the past more than three years as the war has been going on, but Dmitry Peskov, the spokesman for the Kremlin, also came
out and said, look, if the Ukrainians want peace, they need to withdraw their troops from the entire of what the Russians call the Novorossiya and
the Donbas regions, which is actually more than the territory that the Russians currently control.
So, it seems as though those negotiations could be quite difficult with a lot of controversial issues still at hand. And it seems as though the Trump
administration is acknowledging how difficult they are while at the same time saying they want results as fast as possible. Erica.
HILL: Yes. A lot ahead that needs to be discussed and worked out. Fred, really appreciate it. Thank you. Stay with us. We'll have much more coming
up right here on CNN in just a moment. We're going to fit in a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:00]
HILL: The head spinning back and forth from President Trump on tariffs taking yet another turn today. The president says he may reimpose tariffs
on some countries in the next two to three weeks, despite the fact that 90- day pause, of course, was put in place by the White House and is currently in effect.
Mr. Trump has though softened his stance on China, showing he's open to de- escalating the ongoing trade war. Beijing though seems like it is not inclined to blink, in fact, appears to be really prepared to dig in here
for the long haul.
Now, President Trump is insisting there are direct talks with China every day, Chinese officials have denied the two countries are even speaking.
That denial coming just ahead of some earlier comments today. A government spokesperson for China had called on the U.S. to quote, "stop threatening
and blackmailing China." So, the president was asked about it just a short time ago. Here's his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, they had a meeting this morning. So, I can't tell you. It doesn't matter who they is. We may reveal it later. But
they had meetings this morning and we've been meeting with China.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: So, again, that was just a short time ago President Trump saying that they had in fact had meetings with China following denials to CNN from
Chinese officials. The president also showing his frustration today on social media, slamming China in a post for returning two Boeing planes to
the U.S.
[14:40:00]
Vanessa Yurkevich, following all the developments for us at the New York Stock Exchange. So, there are the China developments, there are questions
about tariffs, which he was just asked about in the Oval Office. It was also interesting, Vanessa, as he was asked about prices and housing prices
specifically started to talk about a lot of different things and then said the Feds should lower rates, interest rates, saying it's already a little
bit late. I'm not sure those comments were enough to spark any movement there in the markets, but it's certainly something everyone's paying
attention to. How is the day going on Wall Street?
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, markets have been up for most of the day, in the green. Maybe there was a little
pop on the Dow after the president said that his administration had been meeting with China this morning. Of course, China denying that they have
had any conversations with the Trump administration.
But really here on Wall Street, investors are sort of riding optimism that there may be conversations going on, that the treasury secretary and the
president has indicated that there may be a de-escalation at some point. So, this is a little bit of a hope fueled day on Wall Street. Maybe a
little bit of hangover optimism from some of the comments that we heard yesterday. But certainly, nothing is settled yet.
You know, for the past couple weeks, as I've been speaking to investors and analysts, they really say that they want to see concrete deals on the
table. They haven't seen that from any country, and especially China, which is their biggest concern. So, things are not settled yet.
However, investor sentiment is picking up a little bit. If you look at CNN's Fear and Greed Index, you can see that we are now in fear territory,
which still sounds bad, but looking at where we came from, which is extreme fear it looks a little bit better. And that fear indicator right there is
the best reading we've seen in several weeks.
But that does not take away from the fact that market value has really, really plummeted since February. Markets have lost about $6.5 trillion in
value since February 19th. You can see it right there on your screen. And then, even just since April 2nd, that's around the time that President
Trump announced those higher reciprocal tariffs that he ended up pulling back, market value dropped about $2.5 trillion.
So, while today looks like a pretty picture on Wall Street, you know, in the green you have the Dow up almost about 450 points, I'm just looking
over my shoulder here, the NASDAQ actually up two point a half percent fueled by some of those tech stocks like Apple, NVIDIA. It looks nice
today, but it certainly does not erase all of the volatility that we have seen in the past weeks, Erica.
And I will say that analysts I spoke to said that investors and traders are watching news lines so closely that a post on Truth Social or something the
president said could certainly turn the tide. We are not out of that volatility period just yet. Erica.
HILL: Not yet. That volatility, the uncertainty, that's the one thing that is certain, it's here for a little bit longer. Vanessa, appreciate it.
Thank you.
Yashen Huang is a professor of Global Economics and Management at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and joins me now. It's great to have
you with us this afternoon, this evening, depending on where everyone is in the world.
As we look at where things stand -- let's start first by talking about China, if we could. So, the president, as I'm sure you heard there, just a
short time ago today, was asked about these talks, which China has denied. And he said there were conversations just this morning. This constant back
and forth, including some denials from China, I mean, what does that do in terms of U.S. negotiating power?
YASHEN HUANG, PROFESSOR OF GLOBAL ECONOMICS AND MANAGEMENT, MIT: Well, China has all the leverage at this point. If you look at the consumer
sentiment in this country is tanking, China knows exactly that on Monday, the CEOs of Walmart and Target told Trump that in a week or two, the
shelves may be running empty.
So, Trump is facing these tremendous pressures, whereas on the Chinese side, there's really not a similar pressure on the Chinese side.
HILL: Yes. In terms of the -- there isn't the similar pressure. There's also, when we look at just sort of the state of things, I know you told the
Wall Street Journal, and I'm quoting you here, "Chinese society has an incredibly high capacity for pain," and this is something that the
government has really worked toward. What does that mean in terms of that high capacity for pain and how long do you think it could last?
HUANG: Yes. So, essentially, the side that can decouple economics from politics it's the side that is going to be on the more decisive side, and
this is where China is. China doesn't face elections, doesn't face public opinion pressures. And the economic situation in China is not great. On the
other hand, they can postpone these economic problems by doing policy and other adjustments, whereas in the U.S., they cannot.
[14:45:00]
And the other reason that China doesn't want to come to the negotiating table is that if they do it now, they essentially acknowledge the baseline
-- the tariff baseline, which is 145 percent. They don't want to acknowledge that as the starting baseline. They want to go back to the
baseline before Liberation Day, which is about 20, 25 percent tariff. They want to start from that baseline rather than the current baseline.
HILL: And so, therefore, you see them holding out. I wonder if I could get your take too, just in some comments that we just heard from the Oval
Office. So, Secretary Bessent noting that they just had a great meeting with South Korea, saying they came in early with their A-game, that we
could hear something on that next week. So, some movement there, potentially a deal on the horizon for the administration.
But what was interesting to me is the president was asked specifically about Norway, which was initially hit with a 15 or 16 percent tariff, I
believe, when those tariffs were announced in early April. And he was asked if that number would come down. The president said, I think they'd be
willing to pay us more. And then when asked what else he wants Norway to buy more of from the U.S. he said, I don't think we could do much better.
Just keep it the way it is. And also, alluded to the fact that while there are deals going on, it's a lot of work to make a deal with every country.
So, maybe we'll just get to the point where we'll set that deal instead of negotiating.
You're having continued mixed messages. It's not just about China. Globally, what is that broader impact for not just this administration, but
for the U.S. economy as a whole?
HUANG: Well, for the U.S. economy, it is a disaster. U.S. relies on cheap imports from the rest of the world, not just for the consumers who are
struggling now because of all these problems that Trump has created, but also for all companies that also rely heavily on imported raw materials,
imported components to produce cars, to produce electronics. So, essentially, what the Trump trade war has done is that it is escalating
consumer prices, but it is also escalating producer prices.
The combination of these two developments is going to create tremendous problems for U.S. economy, and by implication, for the rest of the world
simply because U.S. is such a big part of the global economy. It's about 25 percent of the global GDP.
HILL: We're a little tight on time, but is there -- in your mind, is there sort of a timeline at work here? I mean, how much longer do you think this
can endure, this period of uncertainty?
HUANG: I gave it one week to 10 days. If the shelves in Target, Walmart run empty, that is the moment of reckoning for the United States. They just
have to come down from their position.
HILL: And we know that's been the warning to the White House earlier this week. Yashen Huang, really appreciate your insight. Thanks for joining us.
HUANG: Yes. Thank you.
HILL: Still ahead here, Pope Francis returned to the Basilica in Rome. This one basilica time and time again, seeking comfort and peace from the
Virgin Mary. We'll show you where he will soon make his final journey.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:00]
HILL: The Vatican says more than 60,000 people have filed past the coffin of Pope Francis thus far paying their final respects before his funeral
this weekend, and those visitors have come from around the world. St. Peter's Basilica, in fact, only closed its doors for an hour early this
morning before reopening again.
The Vatican has also confirmed 50 heads of state and 10 monarchs will be among the mourners at the pope's funeral on Saturday. Following that
service, the pontiff will make his final journey to a basilica in Rome he often visited, where he will be buried in this simple unadorned tomb. The
Catholic church as a group of the poor and needy will be waiting for him on the steps of Santa Maria Maggiore noting that, quote, "the poor have a
privileged place in the heart of God and so, too in the heart of Pope Francis."
The pope's choice for his final resting place also reflects his deep reverence for the Virgin Mary, whom he would turn to time and again for
comfort and guidance. As Isa Soares reports, while the pope was seen as a reformer who elevated the role of women in the church helping to crack the
stained glass ceiling, significant barriers still remain.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the church's seat of power where the patriarchy reigns, women icons loom
large. But none was more important to Pope Francis than this one, the Virgin Mary in the Basilica de Santa Maria Maggiore, which he visited more
than a hundred times. And as in life, his death will be at her feet. This, his final resting place.
Unlike those before him, the pope fought to elevate women seeking their worth within the Vatican.
When women are in charge, things work, he said, just days before he died.
During his 12-year papacy, Francis appointed around 20 women to positions of authority in the Vatican. That while perhaps slow progress is simply
unprecedented in a male dominated church.
Most recently, France has made history when he appointed Sister Simona Brambilla as the first female prefect in the church and the Roman Curia.
Sister Nathalie Becquart was elected by Pope Francis in 2021 as the undersecretary to the Synod of Bishops, a body tasked with church reform.
The first woman to hold the post and have voting rights.
NATHALIE BECQUART, UNDER-SECRETARY, GENERAL SECRETARIAT OF SYNOD OF BISHOPS ROME: What I think it was a very symbolic gesture from Pope Francis
appointed me as woman in this role. Before it has always been a bishop, not because women are better, but because when we are together, as men and
women, usually we work better, we make better decision.
SOARES: But while Francis broke with tradition, formally allowing women to read from the gospel during mass, act as altar service, and distribute
communion, he made it clear repeatedly that ordaining women as priests was off limits.
CROWD: Women can be priests, don't kick the can.
SOARES (voice-over): Kate McElwee leads the Women's Ordination Conference, which calls for gender equality in the Catholic Church.
KATE MCELWEE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WOMEN'S ORDINATION CONFERENCE: Pope Francis' appointments of women to high positions within the Vatican is
extremely significant. It really helps change the culture within the Vatican. And so, I hope that it starts to ask more questions than an
answer, is like, why can't women then go into the Conclave? Why are women excluded from this?
SOARES: How do you make sense of that?
MCELWEE I would say that Pope Francis unlocked the doors, but didn't quite open the doors for women.
[14:55:00]
SOARES (voice-over): But they will keep on knocking, a major challenge, no doubt, for the next head of the Catholic Church.
Isa Soares, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: Michelle Obama is explaining why she decided to skip President Trump's second inauguration in January on a podcast where she co-host with
her brother, basketball coach Craig Robertson -- Robinson, rather. That came up as part of a discussion with actress Taraji P. Henson. Take a
listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER U.S. FIRST LADY: My decision to skip the inauguration, you know, what people don't realize, or my decision to make
choices at the beginning of this year that suited me were met with such ridicule and criticism like people couldn't believe that I was saying no
for any other reason, that they had to assume that my marriage was falling apart.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
OBAMA: It took everything in my power to not do the thing that was right or that was -- was that -- that was perceived as right, but do the thing
that was right for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Michelle Obama also noting she wanted to set an example for her daughters to practice the art of saying no.
Thanks so much for joining me tonight. I'm Erica Hill in for Isa. Be sure to stay with CNN Newsroom with Max Foster is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
