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Isa Soares Tonight
U.S. Economy Shrinks in First Quarter As Trump Trade Wars Disrupt Businesses; Sources Say Marco Rubio and Salvadoran President have Been in Touch About Kilmar Abrego Garcia; Gaza Edges Closer to Famine. Gaza Nears Famine as Israel's Aid Blockade Nears Third Month; Israel Releases Palestinian Medic; Documentary Photographer on Building Trust. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired April 30, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, the worst quarter since 2022. What GDP
data tells us about the U.S. economy and how President Trump is faring 101 days into his new term. Plus, Secretary Rubio and the Salvadoran President
directly discussing Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the man at the center of a deportation battle.
We have the very latest on that. Then Gaza edges closer to famine, more than two months into Israel's total blockade on humanitarian aid. I speak
with the head of one aid group making an urgent plea to Israel. We begin this hour, though, with contrasting narratives on America's economy. What
the President is saying versus what the data is actually revealing.
A critical new report shows the U.S. economy is headed in the wrong direction. But at a cabinet meeting at the White House earlier, Donald
Trump tried to shift the blame to his predecessor. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Core GDP, and this is -- you know, you probably saw some numbers today. And I have to start off by
saying, that's Biden. That's not Trump because we came in on January, this is a quarterly number. And we came in, and I was very against everything
that Biden was doing in terms of the economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And this comes after the GDP registered at an annualized rate of 0.3 in the first quarter. Those results, by the way, much worse than
anticipated. And it's happening only three months, of course, after the President inherited an economy described as the envy of the world. While
Americans, meanwhile, continue to grow uneasy about their finances as Mr. Trump wages an erratic trade war that could send U.S. inflation soaring.
And that uncertainty is impacting consumer confidence, which fell nearly eight points in April. And that is its lowest level since 2020 during
President Trump's first term. Joining us now to discuss what's next for the economy and put some perspective on all this, is our senior White House
reporter, Kevin Liptak, and CNN reporter Matt Egan, who is standing by for us in New York.
So, Kevin, let me start with you this hour. Look, it's not a very original idea of President Trump to blame his predecessor. But, you know, President
Biden in context, is important here, had a very strong economy. Talk us through what President Trump has said and how this administration is
spinning this.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, and in some ways, it's no surprise that he's trying to blame this --
SOARES: Yes --
LIPTAK: On Biden. The previous President has been something of a consistent foil for him throughout this term. But I think when you look at
this report very specifically, there's some very specific reasons why he cannot necessarily lay the blame on Biden. When you look at the negative
print, the reason that it has gone negative are very specifically related to Trump's policies.
One, you have this surge of imports into the United States as businesses essentially try and make a front-run on the tariffs that the President has
put in place to try and get around those tariff rates, trying to buy as much as they can before those take effect. You also see a decline in
government spending, which again, is something that Trump is very actively and very publicly doing through the DOGE program and through Elon Musk.
And so, for those two reasons, it's -- it does not hold any water that this particular GDP report can be laid at the foot of Joe Biden. So, that's the
economic reason why I don't think that holds water. I think there's also the political reason why it doesn't hold water. One, the President has just
entered his 101th day in office.
He has been around long enough that a lot of Americans are going to assign him credit for the good and for the bad. And two, you know, the President
ran on the very idea of lowering prices for Americans. He has acknowledged in public that, that is part of what got him into the White House. In fact,
it was probably the biggest reason that he was elected.
This -- or I'm sorry, last year, as part of the pitch that he made to voters, he never mentioned this idea of a transition period of having
patience. It was all about turning things around immediately.
[14:05:00]
He never really laid to the groundwork among the American populace that this sort of grant program that he was orchestrating would require them to
go through a period of pain. But that is exactly now what he's telling them. And it was really remarkable, I think, in the cabinet meeting that
just concluded, it went on almost two hours. He talked about this idea that Americans may have to adjust their consumption and spending habits as he
advances towards what he calls his golden age of American manufacturing, he says maybe the children will have two dolls instead of 30 dolls, he says.
And maybe the two dolls will cost a couple of bucks more. Essentially saying that Americans will have to limit what they're buying, and that what
they are buying will cost more. That is --
SOARES: Yes --
LIPTAK: Not necessarily a message that is going to resonate with a public that voted him into office to bring prices down.
SOARES: And on that point, Kevin, before I go to Matt Egan exactly on that point, what do the polls suggest? CNN polls, the latest CNN polls as to how
they view the President's handling of the economy so far.
LIPTAK: Well, it's not positive. Those numbers essentially have been ticking down since the President took office, sort of in line with his
overall approval rating, which now stands in the -- you know, low 40s, which is the lowest approval rating for any incumbent at this point in
their presidency as long as polling has existed, including his own presidency back in 2017.
And so, you do start to see an enormous amount of skepticism creeping in. And I think the fear among officials at the White House is that consumer
sentiment and low approval ratings on the economy can have an effect of creating a bad economy if people aren't spending because they think a
recession is coming down the pike, that can be sort of a negative feedback loop that in turn, creates a worse economy for the President to have to
deal with.
SOARES: Yes, and that is such a very important point, and interesting to see how the public do react, especially if we look ahead to the midterms.
But let me just go -- let me just go to Matt Egan. And Matt, the point that Kevin was making there, it really doesn't matter how much you blame a
predecessor, how much lipstick you put in a pig, the numbers, the data points really point to the actions by this administration, to the falling
consumer spending as a result of those tariffs, falling government spending as a result of DOGE.
Just talk us through the numbers and what you have been hearing from economists. Are we nearing, you know, recession here territory? What --
speak to those fears?
MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Isa, well, let me just start with -- if I get any of these numbers wrong, I'm going to blame my predecessor on this
show, Kevin Liptak --
(LAUGHTER)
EGAN: Just kidding. Listen, there are times where we get these economic reports, and it's kind of hard to understand what the role of the federal
government is or isn't. This is not one of those times, right? As Kevin just laid out, there clearly was a massive impact from two things, mostly
the trade war, but also DOGE, the government spending cuts.
And obviously, both of those things are not Biden-era policies. These are new policies that the President has been taking and has been speaking about
every single day. So, we should start with that. As far as the GDP report - - yes, look, this was a contraction, it was worse than anticipated, although there were some whispers of an even bigger drop in GDP.
But this is the first time that we're seeing an outright contraction in GDP since 2022. And the big thing here is that imports skyrocketed, right? We
saw a 41 percent increase in imports as businesses and consumers are trying to essentially beat the clock on tariffs, right? They wanted to buy stuff
before those tariffs kicked in.
And that is critical for this particular report because when imports outpace exports, that subtracts from GDP. In fact, net exports subtracted
from GDP by the most in this quarter ever since data began on this back in 1947. Now, it is true that core GDP, as the President just noted, that's
formally known as the final sales to domestic purchases, that did hold up.
But actually accelerated a bit. And consumer spending it slowed, but it did stay positive. Of course, the problem here is that a lot of that spending
by businesses in particular, but also to some extent by consumers, a lot of that was fueled by trying to front-run tariffs. And so, the problem is
that, that sets the stage for a cliff, a hangover.
This quarter, I mean, think about it, if you bought a car in January because you were trying to beat tariffs, you're not going to be buying that
car in May. Same thing for a business or a farmer who is buying a tractor because they're trying to beat tariffs. So, there is the risk here that all
of that demand really starts to reverse.
And I talked to Greg Daco(ph), he's a veteran economist. And he told me that he is very concerned about this GDP report. He said that it's too
early to say that there's going to be a recession.
[14:10:00]
But he did say that this report shows that the economy is at a razor-thin edge, where the longer the tariffs stay in place, the greater the risk of a
recession. So, now the ball, of course, is in the White House's court as they decide what to do and whether or not to scale back, to further scale
back some of these tariffs or to continue going ahead. And that decision is going to have a massive impact as far as what happens next in this economy.
Isa --
SOARES: Indeed, and of course, we don't seem to be anywhere near some sort of deal with China on those tariffs, I'm sure there will be another
alternative for President Trump, and that will be blaming the Fed chairman as he's continuously done. We shall see what the Fed does. Gentlemen,
really appreciate it, thank you very much to Matt Egan and Kevin Liptak there for us. Appreciate it.
And while the latest GDP report does point to a much weaker economy, does this not necessarily mean, of course, the U.S. as you heard there, is
headed towards a recession just yet. Though, the question remains what is President Donald Trump's end game here? My next guest is a professor of
economics and public policy at the University of Michigan.
Justin Wolfers joins me now from Ann Arbor. Thanks very much, Justin, for taking the time to speak to us. I'm hoping that you heard there, both our
reporters putting some meat to the bones, really on the question, on the politics, but also on the economics. Look, as we've heard this data, it is
slightly skewed because as we heard, people have been kind of stockpiling, front-loading because of tariffs.
But what do you make, first of all, of these -- of this batch of GDP figures, and what it tells you most importantly about the state of the U.S.
economy right now?
JUSTIN WOLFERS, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS & PUBLIC POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: Yes, it's a -- it's a surprisingly difficult report to describe.
I thought Matt Egan did a terrific job because the headline is terrifying. It says even before tariffs started, that the U.S. economy has contracted.
But you dig into that and you realize, there's less to this than meets the eye.
You probably don't really want to know too much about how the GDP sausage is made, but it's all sorts of estimation and extrapolation. And in
particular, it's not built for a moment like this when the amount that we're spending is rising because people are trying to front-run the
tariffs, but that has no effect on the amount that we're producing and how we measure those different things.
We measure some of it better than others, and that can create the sort of statistical artifacts that might lead me to look at today's report, and
say, you know what? We didn't learn that much here. What we did learn is that there has been an import surge. It's easy to understand why because of
the tariffs, it's going to distort a lot of our economic numbers.
But the most important thing to remember is, this is only telling us about how the economy was doing until March. The real tariff Armageddon nonsense
--
SOARES: Yes --
WOLFERS: News started in April 2nd. And the real question is, is the economy going to fall subsequent to the real chaos that we're not yet
seeing in the real economic data? So, we know people feel bad about the economy. We know that financial markets are worried about --
SOARES: Yes --
WOLFERS: The future, but we haven't yet heard the other shoe drop of seeing hard numbers for April and May. And that's where we might see a
recession begin.
SOARES: Right, OK, but we do -- and I don't -- I like your take on the consumer spending, because I think it powers something I'd read, something
just off 70 percent of the U.S. economy slowed in the quarter to 1.8 percent from 4 percent. So, if a deal with China isn't done soon on
tariffs, it drags on, then what impact -- speak to the impact that this potentially could have on the U.S. economy.
WOLFERS: If we don't get a deal done with China, tariffs 145 percent, that is effectively tightened -- the two largest economies in the world and
putting up a wall between them. And not only putting up a wall between them, but doing it almost overnight with no notice. You know, we actually
had that experiment before, that was COVID where we shut down whole economies, and then we tried to restart them. And that works pretty well
for Windows computer when it's not working well.
But as we learned with COVID, that's not how economies work. And so, we're going to see a range of things that the immediate impact of the tariffs
means. For instance, every factory in the world can get the equipment that it needs without a 145 percent up-charge, except the factories in the
United States. That's the result of Washington, not Beijing.
And so, that right there is going to undercut the competitiveness of American factories. It means that supply chains immediately are going to
have to be re-jiggered. It's already leading people to worry about the future, the immense uncertainty that you and your viewers feel is going to
undermine spending, and that in itself can become recessionary.
SOARES: And President Trump has said repeatedly, you know, this is all about short term pain. Depends really how quickly this lasts, right? But
you know, when you have negative growth, Justin, and then you have higher inflation that clearly is going in the wrong direction.
[14:15:00]
We're looking at possibly a stagflation scenario here. Where then does this leave the Fed and its Chairman Jerome Powell, who as we've been reporting
here, as we've discussed at length, has been facing some truly stinging criticism from the President.
WOLFERS: Look, I'm going to start by defending Jay Powell and the Fed. They're just on the back of having pulled off the most amazing soft landing
of my lifetime. They managed to bring inflation from 9 percent down to nearly 2 percent, without causing any recession or any uptick in
unemployment. A remarkable achievement.
But by jingo, he's in a hard spot right now because we're facing two crises. One is, the economy is slowing. We already saw that in the first
quarter. The real news is what happens through the rest of the year. Normally, the cure for that would be lower interest rates, but at the same
time, tariffs raise prices, they raise businesses costs.
They pass those costs onto you and I. Those higher prices are going to cause inflation to rise. And the cure for that is to raise interest rates.
So, poor Jay Powell is sitting there trying to figure out whether to lower interest rates or raise them. And the reality is, he doesn't have the tools
to solve this economy's problem, which is tariffs being imposed by Washington in an incredibly destructive and chaotic manner.
SOARES: Justin, really appreciate your analysis. Thank you very much for coming on. Justin Wolfers there. Now, sources say a last-minute
disagreement appears to be threatening to derail the minerals deal that the U.S. and Ukraine were hoping to sign, in fact, today. Ukraine's Prime
Minister said earlier, he wanted to ink the deal within the next 24 hours once all the details were finalized.
Well, that goal, it seems, may now be in limbo. Clare Sebastian is here with more. So, Clare, what exactly is this last minute disagreement that
we're hearing about?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, look, I mean, this has been a turbulent process over the past few months --
SOARES: Yes --
SEBASTIAN: Getting up there, and I think we're seeing a sort of a microcosm of that roller-coaster playing out today. So, look, we heard
earlier from the Ukrainian Prime Minister that the economy minister was heading to Washington D.C., he said that they were finalizing the last
details with their American counterparts, and they expected to sign, as you said, within 24 hours.
Then a source familiar with the discussions in the U.S. said that they felt that Ukraine had reopened terms on a number of issues and were sort of
reneging on a memorandum that was signed last week. Then sources on both sides told us that there was a disagreement over whether they could sign
two technical deals on the investment fund that's being set up at the same time as the main framework deal.
A source familiar with the U.S. position said that the U.S. wanted to sign all of the deals at once. Ukraine, on the other hand, seems to believe that
the two technical deals require more work. So, look, we understand still that the --
SOARES: Yes --
SEBASTIAN: Economy Minister is heading to Washington. She may already be there, and that the intention is to try to sign this, but it seems that
they may have another long night ahead.
SOARES: It does seem the case. And from what you're telling me and the back-and-forth, that it is Ukraine that seems to be pushing on some of --
on some of these agreements. Do we know exactly any details about the agreements and what they're trying to, you know, trying to clarify here?
SEBASTIAN: Well, it's interesting you say that, because based on the comments that we got from the Ukrainian Prime Minister speaking at some
length to Ukrainian TV earlier, they seem to have had quite a successful negotiation --
SOARES: Yes --
SEBASTIAN: They seem to have got a lot of what they want. So, they managed to, he said, secure a concession where the deal does not include past U.S.
aid. Remember, this is --
SOARES: Oh, yes, of course --
SEBASTIAN: A big red line --
SOARES: Yes --
SEBASTIAN: Donald Trump has always presented this as a way to get their money back. Ukraine has now secured a concession, they say, where it only
includes future U.S. aid. So, sets up --
SOARES: Up an incentive, yes --
SEBASTIAN: Right, there's other things -- like it doesn't -- it doesn't contravene EU rules on competition and things like that. That was a big
thing for Ukraine, which is of course, on a -- it hopes fast track to EU membership. But -- and there's another interesting point where this is a
long-term deal as well. He said -- the Prime Minister, that no profits could be distributed from the fund until ten years --
SOARES: Wow --
SEBASTIAN: Had passed. All of it would be reinvested in the Ukrainian economy. So, if this is signed, it's a big win for Ukraine. It secures, you
know, U.S. investment literally and figuratively --
SOARES: And support, and support, yes --
SEBASTIAN: And their security, yes, it incentivizes more aid. But of course for Donald Trump, it would also be a win, a sort of a rare sign of
tangible progress, a political win in a Ukrainian peace effort that has really stalled at this point.
SOARES: Very much stalled, and it seems President Trump is very much frustrated, even with the Russian side. Clare, appreciate it, thank you
very much. And still to come tonight, the U.N. calls it the silent killer in Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Because of this war, my son has reached this stage", he explains, "now he can barely walk. I have to carry him everywhere."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Starvation is stalking an entire population. Men, women and children amid Israel's longest ever blockade of Gaza. We'll bring you that
story. Then one day after Donald Trump tells "ABC News" he won't bring home the Maryland man who was wrongly deported to El Salvador, even though he
could. We're learning about some possible diplomatic developments. Those stories after a very short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
SOARES: Well, there are new developments in several high profile U.S. deportation cases. Sources tell CNN, Secretary of State Marco Rubio --
Rubio, pardon me, has been directly in touch with Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele. The two men have met in the past when Rubio visited El
Salvador and Mr. Bukele visited the White House.
They are now discussing the detention of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, whom the U.S. has admitted to wrongly sending to a high security prison in El
Salvador. The U.S. President said recently he could bring Abrego Garcia back, but won't. The White House has insisted his release is El Salvador's
responsibility. Let's get more from CNN'S crime and justice correspondent Katelyn Polantz, who has been following the case right from day one and
joins us now.
So, Katelyn, I mean, what more do we know at this stage? This is much of it -- as part of your reporting about this call between Rubio and Bukele, and
speak to the timing of this, given the court proceedings ongoing.
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's been a lot of movement in this situation, this legal standoff, this political
standoff for Kilmar Abrego Garcia being held in El Salvador after the U.S. mistakenly sent him there when deporting him. There was a glimmer of
movement, though, over the past few days.
What our reporting is through our sources here at CNN is that, the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, and the President of El Salvador, Nayib
Bukele, they were in touch, that there was the possibility of a diplomatic resolution for him, and that was a reason why things in his court case got
paused a little bit over the past week.
We didn't hear much about it publicly because there was some sort of discussion there or something happening behind the scenes, and that the
U.S. did ask for his return, El Salvador then said no. So, that brings us to today, where the Trump administration, the President, as well as the
Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, they are now saying, actually, no, we're not going to tell you much about any of the diplomatic discussions at all.
That was what Rubio said after the cabinet meeting today or in that cabinet meeting. He said he's also not willing to tell a judge what's going on,
because this is all up to Trump. Here's Trump being asked about a reporter on where things stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, you told "ABC News" yesterday that you could get Abrego Garcia back if you wanted to. Do you think President
Bukele would turn you down if you made that request?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I really don't know. I know that he's been a great friend of our country. He's gotten a lot less money
than this would take from us if we were going to build these jails and do what he's doing. And they run a very professional operation. I don't know,
I haven't spoken to him.
I really leave that to the lawyers, and I take my advice from Pam and everybody that is very much involved. They know the laws and we follow the
laws exactly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:25:00]
POLANTZ: So, everyone here is pointing at Trump saying, he has the power, he's pointing at his lawyers, saying they're not budging. And we are
looking now to the court to see what happens next. It does not appear like there is any resolution on the horizon now, even though there was
potentially something behind the scenes in the works, or perhaps, that was just political theater.
But what happens next in court that we are watching is the turning over of evidence, the documentation of exactly what has been done for the U.S. to
try and facilitate the return of Abrego Garcia after he was mistakenly sent to El Salvador. And then, of course, what the judge says, if the judge
accepts the U.S.' efforts as enough and looks at what Donald Trump himself is saying too, about this case. Back to you --
SOARES: Speak -- Katelyn, just speak to the politics of this. I mean, President Trump said earlier today, this cabinet meeting that went on for
some two hours. He said, you know, we're having some judge problems. He wasn't referring to this case in particular, but he all -- you know, we
know from looking at CNN polling, new CNN polling that deporting to El Salvador is only backed -- deportations to Salvadoran prison. It's only
backed by 29 percent of Americans.
So, add the politics into this, and whether some of these actions are part of this from this administration.
POLANTZ: Yes, I mean, this is a -- this is a moment where the administration is having to respond to the demands from the judge, the
demands from Abrego Garcia's lawyers, and also listening to what the American public is saying. There is a political move here that they are
making to try and say, this should all be Trump's power over immigration.
Judge's shouldn't be able to question it. We're doing what we think the court is telling us to do, even though the Supreme Court has quite clearly
said that Abrego Garcia's return must be facilitated, and that it's in this trial judge's hands, very unhappy with the administration. But to your
question on exactly what the politics are here right now, according to a CNN poll out this morning, 52 percent of Americans say Trump has gone too
far in deporting undocumented immigrants.
And then another group of Americans, the majority of them saying that the Trump administration should be working to bring home this man, in
particular, Abrego Garcia. So, the politics are coming down, critical of Trump's approach here. But how that shapes what happens in court still
remains to be seen --
SOARES: Yes --
POLANTZ: They are digging in with Marco Rubio saying, we're not going to be saying much more to this judge or in court on what we're doing behind
the scenes. It's the power of the presidency and Trump saying, I could pick up the phone, but I'm not going to.
SOARES: My goodness. It's going to be busy few days and hours. Thanks very much, Katelyn, and as always, appreciate it. Well, staying in the United
States and in the courts, a U.S. judge has ordered the release of Columbia University student Mohsen Mahdawi after two weeks in detention. The
Palestinian man was part of last year's campus protests against the war in Gaza.
Mahdawi was arrested by U.S. immigration officials during a U.S. citizenship interview. A federal judge in New Jersey has ruled Mahmoud
Khalil meantime, another Palestinian activist and former Columbia student coming forward with his lawsuit against the U.S. government. Khalil's
lawyers contend he was unlawfully detained for his political views supporting Palestinian rights.
He was a lawful permanent resident of the United States, and is married to a U.S. citizen. We'll stay across both of those stories for you. Still to
come tonight, staring starvation right in the eyes. Gaza is edging closer and closer to famine amid a months-long Israeli siege. We'll talk about the
deepening humanitarian crisis, one of the aid organizations that's urging, pleading with Israel to, quote, "let us do our job." That interview is
next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Filthy rotten vegetables, moldy flour infested with bugs, soup made with contaminated toxic water. It's not food
for any human being. Yet, two months into Israel's blockade of all humanitarian aid in Gaza, these are some of the only choices for families
desperate to stay alive.
Hunger is everywhere in Gaza. It's an entirely manmade crisis. Israel has acknowledged using the blockade as a means to pressure Hamas to accept its
terms of a ceasefire. Dozens of people in Gaza have already starved to death, including many children. But even those who survive the siege may
suffer lifelong consequences from malnutrition.
Our Jeremy Diamond shows us how Gaza's edging ever closer to famine while the world looks on.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Inside her fly infested tent, Iman Rajab is doing her best to keep her six children alive.
Today, survival looks like this, sifting the half bag of flour she found on a garbage dumpster in Gaza City after all of its bakeries shut down. It is
rancid crawling with pests and clear signs of contamination. But Rajab hopes she can salvage enough to make bread for her children.
My kids are vomiting after they eat it, it smells horrible, she says. I keep cleaning it and it won't get clean. But what else can I do? She asks.
What will I feed my children if not this?
Rajab is one of hundreds of thousands of parents in Gaza struggling to feed their children, an entirely manmade crisis that is rapidly spiraling.
For nearly two months now, Israel has carried out a total siege of Gaza, refusing to allow a single truck of humanitarian aid or commercial goods
into the strip. Israel says it is trying to pressure Hamas into releasing the hostages, but it is civilians in Gaza who are paying the heaviest
price.
There is no food, no nothing. Death is easier than this life, this elderly woman says.
This soup kitchen in Central Gaza can now only provide one meal a day to those who are growing increasingly desperate. This man says he has been
standing in line for hours hoping to feed his family.
These scenes an echo of last summer when hunger swept across Gaza, killing 52 Palestinians, according to the ministry of health. The Biden
administration pushed Israel then to let in aid. There is no such public pressure from the White House now, which says it backs Israel's tactics.
Food warehouses are now barren.
[14:35:00]
YASMIN MAYDHANE, EMERGENCY COORDINATOR, WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME: We are in a position now where over 400,000 people that were receiving assistance from
our hot meal kitchens, which is the last lifeline for the population, is in itself grinding to a halt.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Cases of acute malnutrition are now spiking. United Nations said nearly 3,700 children were diagnosed in March, 85 percent
smore than the previous month. Five-year-old Osama al-Raqab (ph)is among those most severely affected by Israel's blockade, which has exacerbated
his pre-existing medical conditions. He has lost eight pounds in the last month and now weighs just 20 pounds. His skin sticking to his bones. Every
movement is painful.
Because of this war, my son has reached this state, she explains. Now, he can barely walk. I have to carry him everywhere.
Every day his condition worsens. Every day Israel prevents food from getting into Gaza Osama's (ph) life becomes more at risk.
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Just utter desperation. While 12 major aid organizations have made an urgent plea to Israel to quote, "let us do our jobs in Gaza," but it has
apparently fallen, quite frankly, on death ears. Jan Egeland, secretary general of the Norwegian Refugee Council, is among those who signed that
open letter, and he joins me now from Oslo.
Jan, really good to see you. I'm not sure whether you just saw that heartbreaking -- or heard the heartbreaking report from our Jeremy Diamond.
But absolutely heart wrenching to see that little boy who is only five years old. And you know, what he's facing is so many are facing.
You know, we've seen aid being blocked now for two months. And this is hard to fathom because this is, like Jeremy said, is entirely manmade, entirely
avoidable. Your team, like so many others, has played a crucial role on the ground. What are they seeing given, of course, this blockade now for two
months?
JAN EGELAND, SECRETARY GENERAL, NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNCIL: What they're seeing is a famine that is starting, that is manmade and is a war crime.
There is no other way to explain this. It's a war crime to starve an entire population that could be reached with the hundreds of trucks that are
denied entry. We have, all of us, trucks at the border that is not coming in to the population that is starving. And these are innocent people. These
are women and children and families that has nothing to do with the holding of the remaining Israeli hostages.
And then on top of that, of course, 60, 70 air raids per day and 70 percent of this small stretch of land now declared no go areas. So, people are
crammed together in unsanitary conditions and where we, who provide water, daily water to many of them, every day, is also running out of fuel. So,
even drinking water will end in a few days.
SOARES: My goodness. And look, the impact of this blockade -- one of the impacts of this blockade, as we saw there from that five-year-old boy, Jan,
is severe malnutrition, right? And I'm just looking at numbers from the U.N., nearly 3,700 children were diagnosed with malnutrition, and that's
just last month, that's an 82 percent increase from February.
And then, from that, we are looking at severe medical conditions. And now, I'm hearing via my sources, via doctors, we've had on the show, doctors,
surgeons, pediatricians, that they've also been denied entry. I mean, give me a sense of whether this is something you are hearing? And as the
secretary general of the RSC, Jan, did you ever think we would be here?
EGELAND: No, no, no. And what I remember is that when the Assad regime besieged areas, areas full of rebels in Syria, the United States, the
European Union, the U.K., and Germany, those who are providing arms and political support to Israel, were outraged by the starvation policies of
Assad, exactly the same thing is happening now. It's -- there is no difference between it at all. Two months of starvation.
[14:40:00]
After we did get in aid, there was a period of ceasefire. We did get aid in. Israeli hostages were released. Palestinian prisoners were held without
law and were detained arbitrary, were also released. Why on earth did these men in the Netanyahu government and the Hamas leaders decide to not make a
further agreement and end up starving innocent Palestinian children and women?
SOARES: And you write on X, Jan, Israel blocks all aid for starved women and children in Gaza funded, you write, by the U.S., Germany, the U.K., the
E.U., and Scandinavians. Why do you think we have seen such little effort from some of these countries? What would you like to see from some of the
world leaders, including the new U.S. administration?
EGELAND: I would see them act on behalf of humanity for once. Not have their fingerprints all over a crime scene and all over a war crime. It's a
good thing that they give us money to have all of these trucks lined up, but -- and denied now entry by Israel, but their diplomatic impotence is
astounding. The Trump administration has not been able to do anything to give us access to Gaza, nor has Germany and the United Kingdom, which is so
understanding that Israel has to defend itself and so on.
Yes, Israel has a right to defend itself, but not by starving a million children. And that's what they're doing at the moment.
SOARES: Yes. Jan Egeland, always appreciate your time and insight. Thank you very much, Jan. Good to see you.
EGELAND: Thank you.
SOARES: Now, the Palestine Red Crescent Society has released a video of an emotional reunion weeks after deadly Israeli attack on an emergency convoy
in Gaza. Palestinian medic hugged colleagues and wiped away tears, as you can see there, after being released by Israel. The Red Crescent calls him
the survivor of Israel's, quote, "massacre," targeting Palestinian medical teams. The IDF attacks killed 15 people, including eight Red Crescent
medics. Their vehicles were clearly marked. Their bodies were buried in a mass grave. Israel says professional failures led to the killings.
And still to come tonight, a photographer who made a name covering conflict is being honored for an incredible 50 years of work. What Susan Meiselas
told CNN, that's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
SOARES: "Visionaries" is a CNN series highlighting trailblazers and leaders across sport, tech, business, and the arts. Mo Abudu has built a
media empire in Nigeria, centered around sharing African stories across the continent as well as beyond the recent time. While (INAUDIBLE) is not
stopping there though. Here's CNN's Larry Madowo with a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARA MADOWO, CNN sCORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If anyone knows how to throw a party, it would be Mo Abudu, from film premieres and red carpets, to her
own 60th birthday bash last September in Lagos, Nigeria, and being named to the 2025 Time 100 list of most influential people. Mo has plenty to
celebrate these days.
MO ABUDU, CEO, EBONYLIFE GROUP: Let's celebrate the greatness of the things that we're doing. For me, it was just about ensuring that we have a
voice. We've got to be heard. Our stories have to be told, the good and the bad.
MADOWO: Right.
ABUDU: Because I was never one to shy away from telling stories that had to be told if it was about anyone being victimized or some challenges that
we're facing in our society. It's important to talk about them and to speak to those that are championing the change that's necessary.
MADOWO: You are not just satisfied with this successful TV show, "Moments with Mo." You went on to start EbonyLife TV.
ABUDU: I did.
MADOWO: And even then, you're like, OK, I could keep expanding even more. Why is that?
ABUDU: Because I just think it's important to create that ecosystem around where you can be absolutely complete. So, it was great to start the talk
show, then it was important to start the TV network. And then, obviously, we had EbonyLife films, you know, sort of doing major theatrical releases.
MADOWO (voice-over): In 2014, a year after creating the EbonyLife TV channel, riding on the success of her talk show, Mo and her team began
adding films to their portfolios.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please tell me that didn't just happen.
MADOWO (voice-over): Productions including "The Wedding Party" and "50" broke Nollywood box office records. It didn't take long for major Hollywood
studios to take notice. Sony, Lionsgate, AMC Networks, and then History with Netflix in 2020.
As EbonyLife Films became the first African production company to sign a multi-project Netflix deal.
ABUDU: what's the next big move? Then, Netflix comes to town and then we become Netflix's, you know, major partner across the continent. So, that's
happened. And now, we're now taking the next rodeo to say, what's next? I'm also going to be launching EbonyLife On, on OTT platform, because I don't
believe that there are enough platforms for our content.
We need to also create that ecosystem for ourselves. So, part of what I'm going to be doing, hopefully by June, will be to launch EbonyLife On, so
then you can all stream our content around the world. I'm going to be engaging with filmmakers to say, listen, let's take your films.
We also have a massive library of content as EbonyLife. I'm taking that journey because I think it's important now to do that. Netflix has been
great, working with them, but we also need to create our own.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And you can see much more from Larry's interview with Mo on "Visionaries" premiering this weekend.
Also, coming up after the break --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN MEISELAS, DOCUMENTARY PHOTOGRAPHER: When the pictures come out in the dark room, it's magical for them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: -- our conversation with photographer Susan Meiselas about building trust and capturing risk in her work. You don't want to miss that.
That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:00]
SOARES: American photographer Susan Meiselas is being honored for outstanding contribution to photography. She received the accolade from the
Sony World Photography Awards. Meiselas is known for her work covering conflicts in Central America. But she has also turned her lens on
communities closer to home, from strippers in New England's traveling carnivals, to young girls in her home on New York City neighborhood. Her
work is on display right now, right here in the U.K. We caught up with Meiselas in London to discuss their extraordinary as well as multifaceted
career.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN MEISELAS, DOCUMENTARY PHOTOGRAPHER: I mean, when the pictures come out in the dark room, it's magical for them.
SOARES (voice-over): Susan Meiselas has spent half a century building relationships through her lens, each shot a multi-layered story.
MEISELAS: I love the composition of a frame, but I also love what's missing from the frame and complimenting and contrasting or juxtaposing,
adding dimensionality.
SOARES (voice-over): But with that, you need trust. The American photographer befriended a group of children in her New York City
neighborhood back in the mid-1960s and watched them grow from girls to women. This became one of her earliest series.
MEISELAS: "Prince Street Girls" is the story that you hear is from Frankie, the boy that hung out and is in that photograph with the girls.
And I kind of love that he tells the story of the girls. You know, the girls being part of the neighborhood and then growing and leaving the
neighborhood where he still lives. And I still live.
And this is down the block right in front of the church. And my building is right there. That's my window. So, you know, I'm looking out, sometimes I'm
seeing them on the street and jumping out. They're all in their early 50s now, I would say, but they now have families. They're now not living in the
same hood as it were.
So, you know, I see them more infrequently now, but I'm never surprised when they ring the bell and say, my daughter's here, and she'd really love
to see those photographs again. So, there's something special about this period of time that we shared.
SOARES (voice-over): By the late 1970s, her photography went from the intimate to the turbulent when her visual storytelling shifted to the
Nicaraguan Revolution raging at the time.
MEISELAS: I didn't go to war, but I was interested in the conflict and learned a huge amount by being in different parts of the world,
particularly Latin America.
SOARES (voice-over): It was here that Susan shot "Molotov Man," her best known image that became a symbol of the time.
MEISELAS: When I say I've learned a lot, it's how an image can have a life of its own, far beyond what you imagine. When you're making it, it's a
gesture that, people can identify with. You know, there's another image that somebody sends me on the 40th anniversary at the time of resistance
again in Nicaragua in 2018, where there are people in the streets with that exact gesture throwing stones, not Pepsi bottles. But it is universal in a
certain way, and yet, it's highly specific.
SOARES (voice-over): Reflecting on a project from the U.S.-Mexico border, the magnum photographer tells us why those photographs continue to be
relevant today.
MEISELAS: It's quite important that you see people crossing, but you don't have any idea what they've left behind, what it takes to risk everything,
and create or imagine a future. So, what I wanted Americans to feel as they looked at the work was some connection to where the risks, those risks.
What's now, I think, particularly difficult is they're anonymous. They're being deported anonymously.
Each of those stories have histories of the places they came to be part of and are not stripped away from.
[14:55:00]
Deportation is a particularly dramatic and disturbing the lives of people who settled and who are vital to our economy and our ongoing lives as well
as Americans. Who are we as Americans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES (on camera): Fabulous lady. A special presentation of Susan Meiselas' is currently being shown at Somerset House in London until May
5th.
And what is the strangest thing you've seen on your drive home? Well, unless you live in Australia, it can't be as bizarre as this. Let me show
that to you. This is Sheila. Of course, they had to name her Sheila. A runaway kangaroo who's caused chaos on a highway in the U.S. State of
Alabama. She jumped into the road and cut into traffic, shutting down part of the interstate on Tuesday. Police say her trip caused two vehicles to
crash.
But thankfully, Sheila got away unharmed. We are very happy to hear. The Kangaroo was later tranquilized and returned to her owner. It's like me
doing drop off with morning for my kids.
That does it for tonight. Thanks very much for your company. Newsroom with Max Foster is up next. I shall see you tomorrow. Have a great day. Bye-bye.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
