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Isa Soares Tonight
U.S. Chamber of Commerce Pleads Trump to Pull Back on Tariffs; China Standing Firm in the Face of Trump's Tariffs; Americans to Adjust Their Spending Says Trump; Erin Patterson Testifies in Court. Trump Nominates Mike Waltz As New U.S. Ambassador to the U.N.; Washington and Kyiv Sign a Minerals Deal; Trump's Tariffs Plan Set to Soon Kick In. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired May 01, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, Mike Waltz has left the chat. The U.S.
National Security adviser is on the way out in the first major staff shakeup of the new Trump administration. Plus, what it means for U.S.
foreign policy as Washington and Kyiv finally sign a minerals deal?
And the countdown to shortages begins as crippling tariffs take hold with U.S. homes and businesses set to feel the pinch. We begin this hour though
with breaking news out of Washington, where the first major shakeup in the Trump administration seems to be imminent. Sources telling CNN that U.S.
National Security adviser Mike Waltz is expected to step down in the coming days.
They say that Waltz had been losing influence in the West Wing for weeks after he added, if you remember, journalist to a group chat discussing
sensitive military strikes in Yemen. Waltz deputy Alex Wong is also expected to leave. Top Republicans say they weren't warned about Waltz's
departure.
Democrats, meantime, are accusing the President of firing the, quote, "wrong guy", and are calling for U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to be
removed. Our senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak joins me now alongside our chief U.S. national security correspondent Alex Marquardt.
Great to have you both on the show.
Kevin, let me start with you. President Trump indicated not so long ago post-really Signalgate that we -- you know, we reported, you and I
discussed at the time that he would stick with Mike Waltz, right? He said that he had learned his lesson, that he was a good guy, a good man, I think
he said. What has changed in the last few months, particularly in the last few weeks? Just speak to the timing of this.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, I think what has changed is the time. You know, time has now passed for the President to
continue, sort of considering how that Signalgate episode unfolded. At the time that it was happening, the President did think about firing Mike Waltz
for that, adding the journalist to the chat with the sensitive details about the strikes and the Houthi rebels in Yemen.
He ultimately decided against it, one, because he didn't want to give a perceived victory to who he believed were his enemies, including in the
news media. But also he wanted to avoid the sense of chaos that had so colored his first administration, most particularly in that role of
national security adviser.
You'll remember he fired Mike Flynn, his first national security in 2017 within weeks of taking office. He had really hoped to avoid that sense of
disorder that was so prevalent when he was first serving in the White House. Now that he is 102 days into the office, I think there is a sense
that he was ready to make his first firing.
And that is exactly what we're seeing happening here. But it should be said that it was pretty clear for a while that Mike Waltz's influence had been
waning in the West Wing. First of all, you had a conspiracy theorist, Laura Loomer, come here, meet with the President in the Oval Office, somewhat
unbeknownst to Mike Waltz, and tell the President that a number of staffers on the National Security Council were disloyal to him.
Those staffers ended up getting fired. That was evidence of Mike Waltz's sort of waning sway with the President. He had tried to intervene, but
wasn't all that successful. We also noticed earlier this week that the President, as he was traveling to Michigan to air force base there, Mike
Waltz had flown with him to Joint Base Andrews on Marine One, but ultimately he didn't get on Air Force One, and it was clear that the
President wasn't interested in having his counsel and advice on that trip.
And so, it was pretty evident, I think, for a while, that Mike Waltz's sway was waning, obviously, this is quite a critical position, not only inside
the West Wing and in the White House, but in the larger national security apparatus of the United States. And so, I think there was a sense that he
needed to stay in this position. They couldn't leave it vacant for a huge amount of time. But now, today, we're learning that he will be on his way
out very shortly.
[14:05:00]
SOARES: And Alex, Kevin, do stay with us. Let me go to Alex. It seems from what Kevin is saying, that didn't catch many people by surprise. There
seems to be talk already behind the scenes that potentially he was -- he was leaving. But you know, we all know him, majority of us know him because
of Signalgate and the headlines that made.
But he's also known, I heard you discuss this earlier. I wonder if you can add some more context to this, Alex, that he's known as a bit of a hawk
when it comes to -- in the administration, when it comes to Russia, when it comes to Iran. What does this mean for foreign policy and how much do you
think, Alex, this was about his thinking, his positioning on some of these issues or about Signalgate or a combination of both?
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It probably is a combination of both. Isa, there was very little consistency, ideological
consistency --
(CLEARS THROAT)
MARQUARDT: Excuse me, among those who are chosen to be the top national security officials in the Trump administration. When he chose Mike Waltz
and Marco Rubio, they are the traditional hawks who have essentially had to play at being MAGA in order to stay at -- stay in the good graces of the
Trump administration.
And so, when you look forward into what could be impacted, you kind of look at the different areas where Mike Waltz really has had a role. But unlike
past administrations, he was really not the captain of the foreign policy team, if you will, say, compared to Jake Sullivan in the Biden
administration.
This is someone who had to share the role with a number of other cooks in the kitchen, J.D. Vance; the Vice President, Marco Rubio, Steve Witkoff;
the special envoy who now has these very significant portfolios. But Waltz has had a major role in the Ukraine-Russia negotiations. He was at the
table with both the Russians and the Ukrainians at the first two rounds of talks in Saudi Arabia.
He has receded a little bit. And as a hawk, he has been harsher on Russia than many of the MAGA people have. And so, certainly, Ukraine is losing an
ally in Mike Waltz. When you look at the Iran negotiations that are ongoing, Mike Waltz has been extremely hawkish. He's talked about the full
dismantlement of Iran's nuclear program.
That does not appear to be where President Trump and his envoy, Steve Witkoff are. So, in that respect, Iran is losing an adversary. So, perhaps,
they are gaining in some regards. If you look at the Houthis, this is a campaign against them in Yemen that Waltz has been a big proponent of. And
if you go back to Signalgate and look at that chat, you could tell that Waltz was pushing for an increased strikes against the Houthis, while
someone like J.D. Vance was arguing, perhaps, we shouldn't do that, perhaps, the Europeans should do more.
So, he could have an impact on all these different areas. But I've spoken to a number of foreign officials today, Isa, and asking them what the
impact will be. And every single one has said, we'll just have to wait and see who replaces him. Isa?
SOARES: And you've clearly laid out for us some of the major challenge of the next U.S. national security adviser. Do you have a sense, Alex, who
they could be considering, who could replace him? Who are the potential candidates here?
MARQUARDT: It's all speculation at this point. I think we should note --
SOARES: Yes --
MARQUARDT: That it's actually a relatively easy choice for President Trump to make, because this position does not need Senate confirmation. So,
someone like Pete Hegseth, who had a very bruising Senate confirmation battle would have an easier time if they were named national security
adviser.
Some of the names that we're hearing today, Steve Witkoff, who has arguably the biggest portfolios in the Trump administration, but we're being told by
people close to him that he doesn't want the job. One person familiar with his thinking telling me, why would he do that? Because this is a job where
you're really in the swirl of the inter-agency, and that gets very combative.
Christopher Landau is a name many won't know, he's a deputy Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, those are two names of people who have been mentioned
for possible in an acting role. Ric Grenell is a former Trump national security official who's kind of always in the mix. But I think the biggest
question for me is going to be what mold, what profile of person do they want?
Do they want someone who is a bit more in that MAGA camp with J.D. Vance and Pete Hegseth, or will they try to -- will they go with someone who has
a bit more of a traditional role? I can tell you that the allies, whether it's Arabs or Europeans, they prefer, of course, the traditional profile.
And so, in speaking with people today, there are a lot of foreign officials and diplomats who are disappointed at Waltz's departure and apprehensive
about what comes next. Isa.
SOARES: Yes, and I'm getting the Ukrainian perspective in just a moment. Thank you very much, Alex and Kevin, appreciate it. Well, the critical
minerals deal has finally been signed and Ukraine managing to wrangle some more favorable terms out of the United States. And this moment comes more
than two months after that White House spat, if you remember, between U.S. President Donald Trump and his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
So, what exactly is in this deal? While Washington has not guaranteed exclusive access to Kyiv's rare mineral -- earth minerals, this agreement
does say the U.S. gets preferential access, in return, future U.S. military assistance to Ukraine will count as part of America's investments into
Ukraine's reconstructions. Earlier, the White House Stephen Miller spoke on the deal's timeline. Have a listen.
[14:10:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR POLICY: With respect to that deal, we'll move it and operationalize it as fast as we possibly
can. But it's meant to pay back the United States. This is the key point for the hundreds of billions of dollars that our taxpayers have spent
subsidizing the war in Ukraine.
So, it is repayment to the United States. And that's one of the most important points to understand about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the leverage? Does it give? What kind of leverage does it give?
MILLER: The President's goal, again, is to end the killing to achieve a peace settlement that remains, of course, the overriding objective.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's get more on this, Tymofiy Mylovanov is the President of the Kyiv School of Economics, a former Minister of Economic Development and
Trade for Ukraine, a well-known face here on the show, who joins us this evening from Philadelphia. Great to see you, Tymofiy. Look, let me pick up
and get your reaction, first of all, to the breaking news that we've had here for the last an hour and a half or so, and what we're hearing that
Mike Waltz; the U.S. security adviser may be on his way out.
He has been part of these peace negotiations, as you heard, the ceasefire negotiations, and as our correspondent said there, Ukraine is losing an
ally. How do you -- how do you think this will be received in Kyiv?
TYMOFIY MYLOVANOV, PRESIDENT, KYIV SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: Well, you know, this is not our decision or not even for us to make any reaction to this.
It is true that, Waltz is perceived in Ukraine as a person who believes that Russia is the threat, number one, to the United States. And I
personally agree with them.
So, in that sense, yes, we might be losing a friend. But that depends on, you know, who will replace him. And as everyone is saying, let's wait and
see. And my take on this -- on the entire, you know, interaction with Russia and the ceasefire and peace deal and minerals deal, is that people
are unnecessarily alarmist.
In the end, things work out a little bit better, not -- it's not a walk-in- the park, a lot of work needs to be done, but things are going to be OK.
SOARES: Let's talk about that peace deal -- this mineral deal, pardon me. This is -- seems to me an economic and a business deal, not exactly the
peace deal that President Trump promised he would get done in 24 hours. How much, though, of a win, Tymofiy, is this for Ukraine do you think?
MYLOVANOV: Well, so, yes, first of all, it's more of a political deal, in my view, than anything else. It's definitely not a security guarantee deal
--
SOARES: Yes --
MYLOVANOV: Quite yet, even though there is some language attached to it, and it's not a peace deal with Russia, nothing is a deal. In fact, it's the
only deal which has been made within the hundred days, which is realistic, feasible and specific. So, there are at least, three geopolitical
implications of it. One is that Ukraine has been able to build back or rebuild its relationship with the Trump administration from that fight in
the Oval Office about two months ago.
And that took some true diplomacy. Number two is that, Ukraine has been able to hold its ground. There is no reparations. There is no $500 billion.
There is no draconian measures which we have seen in the early versions of the deal. It appears to be a fair deal. And then the third one is, it
creates a clear contrast between Russia, President Putin unwilling to do anything substantive except rhetoric, and then President Zelenskyy, who is
willing to work constructively with President Trump no matter what the disagreements are. So, I think it's a win-win for both.
SOARES: Yes, but look, I remember us talking about the importance of security guarantees. There are no explicit, Tymofiy, security guarantees,
which is, of course, what Ukraine wanted. But if America -- I wonder what you think of this. If America has a greater business stake in Ukraine, does
this implicitly, in your view, suggest that U.S. will protect Ukraine?
MYLOVANOV: Well, there would be an intention, but I don't want people to overestimate it. I know there is rhetoric behind it, that now, the U.S. --
SOARES: Yes --
MYLOVANOV: Has a stake. But you know, we have seen the U.S. has had a stake in Crimea, U.S. had a stake in the east of Ukraine. Russia
expropriated and exploited and confiscated upwards of $50 billion, $60 billion of American company assets in Ukraine alone, and another 150 in
Russia.
So, you know, yes, it is an incentive for the U.S. to build a relationship with Ukraine and vice versa. It's an important incentive, but that's not a
guarantee.
SOARES: Right, let me turn that question on its head, though, because Russia hasn't responded to this deal. But I wonder where you think this
isn't enough of a deterrent to stop Russia from continuing its attacks on Ukraine. Do you believe, Tymofiy, that it puts -- this puts any further
pressure on Putin, or would -- what more can be done at this juncture, because we are seeing President Trump, slightly more infuriated with the
delay tactics here.
[14:15:00]
MYLOVANOV: Absolutely. It does put a political, and sort of signaling pressure, strategic pressure on Russia, because Russia needs the Trump
administration to be at the table because they have no other way out to progress, whatever their objectives are. They are bargaining. They're
trying to get the best deal possible, but they're definitely is interested in having the administration of the United States at the table.
Now, what this deal is showing is that Ukraine has an upper hand. It's working constructively. It's giving the U.S. and at the same, defending its
own interest -- you know, both the U.S. and Ukraine are able to work together. What has Russia achieved so far? Nothing.
SOARES: Yes, we're definitely seeing a shift in the language coming out of the United States in the last week, that is for sure. Tymofiy, always great
to see you, thanks very much, appreciate your time. Now, in a first of its kind ruling, and a significant blow to the Trump administration, a U.S.
federal judge has now barred immigration officials from using a century's old wartime law to speed up deportations of some migrants.
By the way, district Judge Fernando Rodriguez of south Texas is a Trump appointee. And in the ruling, Rodriguez said the President unlawfully
invoked the Alien Enemies Act and exceeded the scope of the law to deport Venezuelans being held in Anton in Texas. Drone footage, you can see there,
shows those detainees pleading for help earlier this week, sending an SOS message to the world.
Many were accused of being gang members and face removal under that law, despite denying any affiliations with gangs. And the Trump administration
is considering sending migrants to countries such as Libya and Rwanda. This proposal was reportedly discussed with Libyan officials this week. Sources
also tell CNN, similar conversations have occurred with officials in Rwanda.
The U.K. also tried, if you remember, sending migrants to Rwanda before the plan was scrapped by the new Labor government in 2024. For its part, Libya
has been embroiled in sectarian violence for years. In 2017, CNN documented how migrants there were imprisoned and sold as slaves. And still ahead
right here on the show, the U.N. says the humanitarian crisis in Gaza has gone from bad to worse to beyond imagination.
And yet, we're learning that Israel is making plans to soon escalate the war. We'll explain. Plus, the author, Beata Mairesse tells me how she fled
Rwanda at age 15 at the height of the genocide there, and why decades later, she's still searching for answers. You don't want to miss that
report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
SOARES: The World Health Organization says Israel's siege of Gaza is breaking the bodies and minds of children, saying the world is complicit
for standing by and watching it unfold. One million children in Gaza along with another million adults are struggling to stay alive amid a total
blockade of humanitarian aid.
Each day, they become more and more desperate for food. A journalist witnessed thousands of people storming food warehouses in Gaza overnight.
And this starvation isn't the result of an accident or an oversight. Israel acknowledges using the blockade to pressure Hamas into releasing hostages.
It's also keeping up deadly airstrikes, even the shrinking areas where civilians are allowed to go. The U.N. says 70 percent of Gaza is now either
a no-go zone or under displacement orders. Have a look at this map. But as bad as things are now, it could soon get even worse. A source tells CNN,
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will meet with senior defense officials on Friday amid plans to expand the war.
Mr. Netanyahu is also publicly acknowledging for the first time that defeating Israel's enemies is more important goal than securing the release
of the hostages. Our Jeremy Diamond is following all the developments tonight for us from Tel Aviv. So, Jeremy, as we just showed viewers in that
map, there isn't much land or territory that the IDF isn't already operating in, right? So, what do they mean by expanding operations? What
are you learning from your sources here?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, what we've seen from the Israeli military in recent weeks is effectively squeezing Gaza's
population into a smaller and smaller area, with most of the population now in the central part of the Gaza Strip. The ground fighting, though, from
Israeli forces, has been relatively limited, though.
We have seen heavy airstrikes since the ceasefire broke down in -- back in March, but we haven't seen a whole lot of urban combat from the Israeli
military in a way that we had seen in previous iterations. Earlier on during this -- now nearly 19-month war. But for -- about a month now,
Israeli officials have been telling us and have been broadcasting publicly as well, an intention to expand that ground operation deeper into the Gaza
Strip than before if there is not a deal.
Now, that has largely appeared to be a pressure tactic that Israel is using at the negotiating table. But the fact that the Israeli Prime Minister is
set to sit down tomorrow with security officials to discuss those plans to expand that operation, gives another degree of seriousness. And it's
important to note that we've previously been told that an expanded operation would not only pull in tens of thousands of additional Israeli
reservists, but could also involve a kind of longer-term military occupation of areas of Gaza, including areas where there are civilians.
And whereas previously, the military had gone into areas and then left only for Hamas to return, this time they would aim to stay.
SOARES: Thank you very much, Jeremy, for breaking that all down for us, appreciate it. We have some breaking news coming to us right now at CNN.
The U.S. President Donald Trump says the outgoing national security adviser, was our top story this hour, Mike Waltz will be nominated as the
next U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., and he says Secretary of State Marco Rubio will serve as his national security adviser.
I'm just seeing now on Truth Social, "I'm pleased to announce I'll be nominating Mike Waltz to be the next United States Ambassador to the United
Nations, from his time in uniform on the battlefield, in Congress and as national security adviser, Mike Waltz has worked hard to put our nation's
interests first." Let's go to our Kevin Liptak who has more reporting on this? And Kevin, I mean, this was pretty fast.
LIPTAK: Yes, and I think that this is now the soft landing that we had heard behind the scenes, officials working with Trump had been looking for,
as it was clear that he had lost the President's confidence in this particular role, the role of national security adviser. Now, the President
confirming that he will be leaving the West Wing, that corner office in the West Wing and being nominated for this position at the United Nations.
You'll remember, this is a post that had originally gone to Elise Stefanik, she's the Republican representative from New York. When it became clear
that the Republican majority in the House of Representatives was so slim that her absence would potentially cause some problems for the GOP, the
President pulled that back. He had been looking for a person to take that job.
[14:25:00]
Now, it seems that he has found it in Mike Waltz. Very interestingly, he also says that Marco Rubio, who is currently the Secretary of State, will
be serving simultaneously as the national security adviser, that hasn't happened since Henry Kissinger, who was this -- of course, the all powerful
national security adviser, very well known and renowned. He also served in those two posts at the same time.
Now, we're learning that Marco Rubio will be doing just that. So, I think it's one, a vote of confidence in Marco Rubio as the President continues
this search for a replacement for Mike Waltz. Now, this position, the ambassador to the U.N., in some ways, it is powerful, but in some ways, it
is a major demotion.
This is not a job that will have a whole lot of relevance in the Trump administration. Trump is not someone who looks at the U.N. as a place where
much can be done. And so, in a lot of ways, this is sort of putting him out to pasture in the national security realm. But it is a job, it is an
ambassadorship, which I don't think you can turn your nose at.
So, the President here confirming that Mike Waltz will be leaving the West Wing, and that Marco Rubio will be serving in dual roles as the national
security adviser and as the Secretary of State.
SOARES: Goodness, dual roles. I know it's an interim position, but certainly, a lot on their plate, given, of course, the challenges we're
facing right around the world, from Gaza to Ukraine to rising tensions, of course, between India and Pakistan, also to the -- to the trade tariffs.
Just speak to that.
LIPTAK: Yes, and I think for Marco Rubio, it now puts him more at the center --
SOARES: Yes --
LIPTAK: Of all of those matters. Because there had been an impression that because of Steve Witkoff, because of others in Trump's realm, that Marco
Rubio had been left somewhat to the sidelines. This potentially could bring him far closer to sort of the action of the national security. But you are
right. And this is all -- these are all matters that have frustrated the President in a lot of ways.
His inability to get a deal with Ukraine, his inability to get China and President Xi Jinping to essentially pick up the phone and start these trade
talks. Even the issue of the Houthis, which the President has been very eager to tout over the last several weeks. You know, the Houthis have not
been decimated. They're still firing at American warships in the Red Sea, causing some pretty significant damage.
And so, these are all issues that now Rubio will be at squarely the center of. One question I had sort of right off the bat, the Secretary of State
job is one that is out of the country for the vast majority of it. You think of Tony Blinken, you think of John Kerry, you think of some of
President Trump's Secretaries of State, they're on the road almost constantly.
President Trump is someone, if you're out of sight in a lot of ways, you're out of mind. And for particular, the national security adviser role, you
want to be there in the Oval Office talking with the President directly. So, it's a question of how he will balance this job of top diplomat. The
idea of shuttle diplomacy around the world with a job that is much more Washington-centered, trying to organize the inter-agency, all of these
different departments to try and coordinate American foreign policy.
So, that will be a task that he will at least have to conduct in the interim, depending on how long it takes the President to find a permanent
national security adviser.
SOARES: Certainly, a vote of confidence for Rubio. But what we're seeing right now, it seems the White House musical chairs. I know you'll stay
across it for us, Kevin, thank you very much. Now, I want to go to State Department, before I was going to break, I'm going to take you to State
Department because I think they're addressing this. Let's just listen in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Only other President that I know of, who has done both State Department and --
TAMMY BRUCE, SPOKESPERSON, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: Well, I guess we're going to have another one. All right. Now, Matt. Matt, let's go. No, wait -
- all right --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, let them go.
BRUCE: Oh --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I don't think you're going to have anything to say. So, go ahead --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They sound a little -- based on the inside that you have. Do you have any -- do you have any indication when Secretary would
have received the call from the President this morning, last night, anything?
BRUCE: No, I can't -- I can't reveal the nature of the details of any exchanges like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I just -- I just --
BRUCE: All right, so now, I mean, yes, back to you in a moment --
(CROSSTALK)
BRUCE: Matt is, are you -- you're not ready? He's relaxing at this point - -
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have actually substituted a non-personal question --
BRUCE: All right, that's fine, that helps me, that helps me in the world where we need to go -- yes, go ahead here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you help us understand why this reshuffle is happening or what it says about the administration's policy priorities that
these moves are taking place?
BRUCE: I think what it says is what his first term said to people is, this is a man who is very active day-to-day involved, knows what he wants to
accomplish. Things also sometimes change. I'm not going to guess at the decisions President Trump makes. What we do know is the results of those
decisions.
And I've said a few times in this room, as people try to look at the minutia of necessarily the why or how many of one thing or a piece of
gossip in a newspaper, that what really matters is the end result and what gets delivered. And I think that it is for all of us, whether it's any kind
of business, is being able to be flexible in a dynamic, in a moment when you feel the need to be flexible.
Clearly, this is the President's decision, and he made it for a reason. And I trust him, and the American people will see the results. All right, yes,
go ahead please. Well, no, right after him now, we'll continue, sir. Go ahead --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God --
BRUCE: Go ahead, thank you --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks so much. In light of your topper on Ukraine minerals deal, I have two questions. May I get -- please get your response
to Russian reaction. As you know, (INAUDIBLE) criticize the president for a deal and called Ukraine, quote/unquote, "a nation that will soon
disappear."
BRUCE: I'm not going to comment on that particular remark. What we do know from this deal and what the president has said and what has been made clear
now in this arrangement is that it cements a partnership, an economic partnership between the United States and Ukraine. And it is something that
also speaks to the nature of how Ukraine will rebuild after this catastrophe.
It is a terrific deal. I think that it is -- and again, it's the U.S.- Ukraine. Reconstruction Investment Fund, and it involves much more than just the critical minerals. And I think some of the -- certainly, what I
think Ukraine understands and what we intend is that this is not just a financial arrangement. This is a bonding between two countries that will
make a difference for a nation. Certainly, in Ukraine's situation where they have a friend and the rest of the world would notice that when you
have a friend like the United States, and when we are in business with you and in your nation, it creates a stronger national security for everyone
involved.
And certainly, in this case, when it comes to the profits that are generated, that is then reinvested into Ukraine for the rebuilding dynamic
that is going to obviously have to happen. It's a time where, as the secretary has noted just a few days ago, as I mentioned to you, as a matter
of fact, on Tuesday, that it's time for both of the nations involved in this conflict to come up with concrete proposals about how this conflict
ends.
And this relationship now with Ukraine reinforces the commitment of the United States to that nation. And it's -- for the world, it's better off.
It also reminds the American people and the world that support of another country can take many forms and that national security can be reinforced in
many different ways, and that's what this arrangement accomplishes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And on that line, Tammy, the president last week was explicitly clear when he tweet out -- posted it out, you know, clear
message to Putin saying, Vladimir, stop. Is there any disappointment on your end that Vladimir has not stopped?
BRUCE: Well, this is, again, why the president is the president. The American people wanted Donald Trump in office. He has shown, certainly in
his first term, that he is willing and capable of taking the action that's necessary to achieve his goals.
He has done more than one would expect on the issue of diplomacy because he truly believes that people. Can come to a decision here to stop carnage and
a meat grinder in that area, and for the world and for the American people to see what that outreach has been and how certain people have responded,
which then clearly informs the president and those who work with him, including Secretary Rubio, about the decisions that they need to make.
So, I think that it's -- certainly, the secretary has been clear that we are watching Putin's actions, right, not his words, and in the process,
he's refined a very specific timeline. Weeks ago, it was weeks, a few days ago it was days that this would be a pivotal week. And look at that, it has
been. All right. Yes. Yes sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much, Tammy. Last week, I had the opportunity to attend the Kurdistan National Prayer Breakfast in Erbil,
which was attended by 800 guests from the around the war, particularly from the U.S. My question --
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: All right. You have been listening there to the U.S. State Department spokesperson. We turn to the
spokesperson, of course, given the news that we've got learned in the, what, last 30 minutes or so that President Trump has announced that that
Mike Waltz, the national security adviser, is going to be -- who is going to be out of the door, is now going to be nominated as the next ambassador
to the U.N. He now says that Secretary of State Marco Rubio will have a dual role, not only a secretary of state, but also a secretary -- as
national security adviser. This is an interim position from what we understand until they find the correct person for that post.
But a breaking news that we had at the top of the hour, Mike Waltz, who was -- was leaving, of course, his position as national security adviser is now
going to be U.N. ambassador -- U.S. ambassador to the U.N.
We were trying to see if they had any clarity, of course, given this reshuffle and what exactly was happening, but we did not. What we did hear
from the U.S. State Department spokesperson was about Ukraine, which of course, Mike Waltz played a huge part.
[14:35:00]
He was central to the negotiations, the deal -- the peace deal -- or efforts for peace deal, I should say, on Ukraine. He's seen as very much as
a Russia hawk, and she said -- she spoke about this deal between the minerals deal between the United States and Ukraine. She says it's not just
a financial arrangement, this is a bond. Ukraine will have a friend in the United States. And with that stronger national security, talked about the
profits that will go back into the reconstruction of Ukraine.
And then, she was asked about, you know, the language that we're seeing, a shift of the language from President Trump in terms of vis-a-vis Putin. And
she said, we are watching Putin's actions and not his words. He said it was going to be a pivotal week and it has been. Hence why we have the minerals
deal.
We'll stay across, we'll keep our ear, of course, the U.S. State Department and spokesperson if she says anything else that we think is relevant to
you, we will of course bring that to your attention.
I do want to stay this hour though in the United States, because there is new anxiety over President Trump's trade war. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce
is now pleading with top administration officials for tariff exclusions to, quote, "stave off a recession," saying small businesses could suffer
irreparable harm.
And it comes amid warning signs from corporate America. GM, General Motors, warning new tariffs will cost the company $5 billion this year. Earlier,
the company's CEO spoke with my colleague Erin Burnett. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY BARRA, CEO, GENERAL MOTORS: We already have a very U.S. centered supply base, over 80 percent of the parts that go into our vehicles are
already USMCA compliant, and the lion's share of that is U.S. So, there's many steps that we can take to offset the $4 to $5 billion, but we wanted
to be transparent and share. That's the impact right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Right. That's GM. McDonald's, usually a reliable barometer really of the state of the U.S. economy, is reporting sales are dropping. The
fast-food giants saying consumers are grappling, their words, grappling with uncertainty. Another troubling sign coming from the executive director
of the Port of Los Angeles, who says, cargo coming in will be down. 35 percent compared to a year ago because, of course, of these tariffs.
But Chinese officials don't seem to be in any hurry to talk trade, despite the 145 percent tariff from the United States. Many businesses owner --
business owners in China also say they're prepared to stand their ground.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Even if the tariffs increased to 500 percent, I'm not afraid. Please rest assured, we can hold on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Stop all the orders, stop all the export orders. I will not chicken out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We can give up the U.S. market. I can let this batch of orders rot in the warehouse. You must give up
illusions that prepare for struggle for China.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And while administration officials and many Republicans in Congress have brushed off warnings about the economy, the president didn't
seem to make this admission about possible product shortages due to his trade war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Maybe the children will have two dolls instead of 30 dolls, you know, and maybe the two dolls will cost a couple
of bucks more than they would normally. But we're not talking about something that we have to go out of our way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, we may get a better idea of the impact of these tariffs on Friday when the U.S. Labor Department releases the April jobs report.
Let's get more on all these strands, and there are a lot to get through. CNN Business Senior Writer, Allison Morrow joins me now from New York. And,
Allison, good to see you. I mean, let me start, first of all, from that letter from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce really pleading, I think is the
word -- that the best word for this, with Trump officials for tariff relief. And that really speaks to the nervousness that many small American
businesses may be feeling. Just paint us a picture of this unease.
ALLISON MORROW, CNN BUSINESS SENIOR WRITER: The anxiety is kind of the only reliable thing that businesses know right now. You know, we've spoken
to business leaders, especially small businesses, you know, big businesses have a little bit more wiggle room to adjust and maybe narrow their profit
margins a little bit. But small businesses are already on edge.
And you know, my colleague Alicia Wallace spoke to one who started a GoFundMe because the tariff cost was going to be double the price, you
know, more than double 145 percent of the actual shipment, which she had already paid for. So, there is just all kinds of stories across the U.S.
business environment that's making them kind of paralyzed. They can't make hiring decisions. They can't make a budget. You know, businesses operate
months and months in advance, and right now, they don't know which direction to go.
SOARES: Yes. And it doesn't seem it's not just small businesses, right? We heard GM, but, you know, saying it'll cost them $5 billion. We are also
seeing declining consumer sentiment, not just in McDonald's, but Chipotle, Starbucks. I mean, this does not bode well for a president who came into
power promising a stronger economy.
[14:40:00]
But let's look ahead to tomorrow, because I think tomorrow's very important, because we have this kind of tumultuous tariff program and a
trade war that has raised fears yet again of a recession. What the U.S. has so far insulating it is jobs and incomes. Just looking ahead to that, what
-- do you think it will hold?
MORROW: Look, the U.S. jobs market has been a bright light throughout COVID, throughout inflation. You know, the labor market has been super
resilient. So, there are hopes that that will hold. And as long as people are still getting an income and spending money, then the U.S. economy, the
engine is still humming.
But the -- you know, this is kind of where we're seeing the rubber meet the road with tariffs and with DOGE cuts to the federal payroll, people are
getting nervous and the whole kind of environment feels scary. So, people you see are pulling back from their McDonald's treats and Chipotle and
Starbucks and those things. We're starting to see consumers really take on that anxiety that businesses have been having for months.
SOARES: Yes, especially when you don't see the trade diplomacy actually, you know, coming to fruition, you know, you don't see the light at the end
of the tunnel. And I think that must be incredibly challenging. Allison Morrow, I really appreciate you coming on the show. Thanks, Allison.
MORROW: Thank you.
SOARES: Now, Craig Fuller is the founder and CEO of Freight Waves, which tracks freight and logistics in the us. Craig, just give me your view from
your perspective. I mean, CNN -- from what CNN understands, some of the last cargo ships carrying goods without, of course, these crippling tariffs
are coming into U.S. ports, but come next week, that's all going to be changing. Talk to us what you are seeing in terms of freight movement here.
CRAIG FULLER, FOUNDER AND CEO, FREIGHT WAVES: Yes, Gene Seroka said it best. There's a 35 percent year over year decline in container volumes that
we're expecting in the port of L.A. And this will start to play out initially in Los Angeles, because that's sort of the first geographic major
port to, to China. And then, it's going to start to play around all the coastal ports.
Eventually, this does impact the rest of the country. So, if you think about imports related to freight markets in the United States, which is
really the goods economy, this is trucking and rail, it's about 20 percent of products that move into a country are directly related to imports. And
so, we're expecting a 5 to 6 percent drop of U.S. freight volume in the next 60 days.
So, this is going to be a sizable and sharp downturn for trucking. And on the job's numbers, there's probably going to be as many as 400,000 to
450,000 potential jobs lost of the 9 million people that work in logistics.
SOARES: Wow. That is staggering. But look, you mentioned the executive director of the Port of Los Angeles. I wonder if you're an executive
director of one of these ports, how do you plan, what do you tell your staff, Craig?
FULLER: Well, they -- I mean, the thing about freight markets is they always adjust to volume. So, you know, transportation is one of the most
volatile commodities on the planet. And so, transportation companies are seasoned at either increasing staff or decreasing staff when they have that
flexibility.
One of the interesting points is the international longshoreman actually put a statement a couple of days ago where they actually talk -- called the
tariffs really misguided and really destructive to the U.S. economy. He was going to put a lot of people at work.
And the interesting thing about this is two months ago, three months ago, Donald Trump was helping negotiate the longshoremen contract to make sure
that our ports didn't shut down. And now, it looks like there was some tension between the longshoremen, the folks that working at the ports and
the administration. This pressure is going to continue to mount as we start to have a slowdown in our economy.
SOARES: Exactly. Look, yesterday on the show we were talking about -- in fact, we led the show with the GDP data, as you saw first quarter GDP,
which viewers will know is backward looking. And you know, and particularly imports, exceeding exports, something like, what, 51 percent as people, of
course, were stockpiling, right, ahead of these tariffs.
But with these tariffs kicking in, Craig, lift this trade war continues, what are the implications? So, break this down for viewers right around the
world, and particularly in the United States, what the implications are on the U.S. supply chain here.
FULLER: Yes. So, there's a long lead time in supply chain. So, it -- when companies are ordering products, what we're seeing is sort of the first
wave of the liberation tariffs, is companies -- and you played it in the video where companies had ordered products, these manufacturers in China
had produced those products, and then U.S. companies said, no more, do not ship. I'm not paying the tariff. Pause my orders. Those products are
filling up in the warehouses and in the factories in China. Those products are not coming over. That is the 65 percent drop in containers. So, that's
the first wave.
And you're going to see some inventory out of stock. But a lot of those products that are currently not being shipped, a lot of them are pre-
stocked, particularly by the bigger brands of bigger companies. So, you will see intermittent shortages in the summer. Perhaps if your air-
conditioned breaks, you may not be able to get parts.
[14:45:00]
Imagine that being in South Texas, a middle of 110-degree weather and there's no parts to help you fix your AC. that is one possibility.
More realistically, is when we get into back to school is when it will become more apparent. And I always say that soccer moms are the barometer
for supply chain crises, because when they go to buy their kids' goods and the backpacks and the school supplies and the apparel is not in store, that
is when this is going to become a far bigger issue. So, that's all the first wave.
Let's talk about the second wave. The second wave is that American businesses are not ordering new products. They're not having manufacturing
orders. Those orders are on pause. So, that's a six-to-nine-month leading a timeline. And that puts us into the holiday season.
So, because we have zero orders -- or I shouldn't say zero, very few orders relative to where we were happening, that means that a lot of the items
that you would normally expect to see of the stores around the holidays may not be there.
SOARES: Goodness me. But look, you've laid it out very clearly the long- term impact in different stages will have. And you know, president Trump, Craig, had spoken of a short-term pain. I don't even how many weeks ago he
said this. Speak to those who work kind on the frontlines. You talked about truckers, manufacturing. What impact will that have on the United States?
FULLER: Yes. Well, there's definitely going to be -- I mean, we're already seeing it. UPS announced 20,000 job losses. Penske Logistics announced a
couple hundred. Other trucking companies have announced. And so, we're starting to see, you know, there has been a slowdown in the domestic
freight market. We saw it around Valentine's Day. There was a lot of bullishness activity going into the year.
But about Valentine's Day, the chart started to break down in domestic trucking demand. Domestic trucking demand currently is down about 10
percent year over year. And so, we are seeing things are sluggish, they're going to get worse. And so, the -- I think what's happened is if businesses
have put investment on pause and they put hiring on pause.
And I talked to a lot of small businesses and big businesses, and one of the things that I'm hearing is almost denial, is a lot of people are
saying, we're going to get a deal. We're going to get a deal. I'm going to wait until we get a deal. I'm worried about my business surviving, but I'm
not ready to make those job cuts because I think a deal is coming. And the longer that this takes, the more stress that creates for small businesses.
SOARES: Yes.
FULLER: I always tell people, it's the five stages of grief. You're in denial. You need to get to acceptance as fast as possible, because
regardless of whether we get a deal with China, there is going to be strategic and economic friction between the United States and China. And if
you have vulnerabilities and exposure to China as a small business, you need to find alternative path and alternative suppliers right now because
this is going to be an ongoing issue. It was an issue during the Biden administration, it's certainly an issue in the Trump administration.
And look, the Chinese aren't happy about what's happening either. So, this is going to be a constant level of friction. You need to take those steps
now.
SOARES: Indeed. There's so much uncertainty. That is for sure. Soccer moms just need to front load as they probably are doing right now. I'm one of
those. But anyway, Craig Fuller, appreciate it. Thank you very much.
And still to come tonight --
FULLER: Yes. Thank you.
SOARES: You're very welcome. We follow the career path of Nigerian Media CEO, Mo Abudu, in the next installment of CNN series, "Visionaries."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:00]
SOARES: Well, all this week right here on CNN, we are spotlighting pioneers of business, sport and the arts as part of our CNN series,
"Visionaries." And one attribute of our "Visionaries" is a willingness, it seems, to take big risks. Today we continue our conversation with Nigerian
Media CEO, Mo Abudu. She's made history of major Hollywood studios, but it's a career path she didn't begin until much later in life as our Larry
Madowo found out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MO ABUDU, CEO, EBONYLIFE GROUP: A lot of the time we're confronted with the western media's view of who we are as Africans, who we are as black
people, you know, and the roles that we were being given in these films. We have to tell our own stories. We have that responsibility to tell them.
LARA MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): But you didn't go into storytelling straight away.
ABUDU: No, I didn't.
MADOWO: You had an entire career.
ABUDU: I had a completely different career. I mean, I was working corporate 9:00 to five 5:00 ExxonMobil for many years. And even before I
left England, I was working in HR, went back to Nigeria, worked in HR, and did that for about 10 years. And then, I woke up at 8:40 and I said, I'm
done. And everybody thought literally I was having a meltdown. You're turning 40, you know, midlife crisis.
MADOWO (voice-over): If this is a midlife crisis, sign me up. Because Mo didn't just change careers, she'd go on to create a media empire.
ABUDU: At that time, about 20 years ago from now, looking back then, there wasn't really this thirst as much for local content. Even when I started my
talk show, "Moments with Mo," when I went to DStv and I said, I would like to do a talk show, they pretty much turned around and said to me, but we've
got a number of talk shows on our channel. We've got the "Oprah Winfrey Show," we've got the "Ellen Degeneres Show," we've got "The Tyra Banks
Show" at the time.
And I'm like, this is all great. But what happens to us telling our stories? What happens to us showcasing and celebrating our people? Oh,
that's a good point you have. So, they gave me a spot on the basis that I could go find the money to pay for the show.
MADOWO (voice-over): Mo raised the funds.
ABUDU: And welcome back.
MADOWO (voice-over): And in 2006, she premiered Africa's first syndicated talk show. "Moments with Mo."
MADOWO: How does a successful HR professional decide at 40 that, I'm going to start a talk show broadcast all over Africa?
ABUDU: Yes. Yes. How -- it was scary. It was scary. I was so afraid of failing. But I think when you are afraid of failing, I think what drives
you is make sure that you have ticked all the necessary boxes to ensure that failure isn't an option.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And you can see much more from Larry's interview with Mo Abudu on "Visionaries," premiering this weekend.
We're going to take a short break. We're back though on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:00]
SOARES: Well, in Australia, the estranged husband of woman accused of murdering her in-laws with toxic mushrooms has testified in court. Simon
Patterson lost his parents and an aunt when they ate a meal that contained death cap mushrooms. His uncle also became ill, but survived. That's not in
dispute.
But his wife, Erin Patterson, maintains her innocence and says this was all a tragic accident. On the second day of her trial, prosecutors show text
exchanges between the two with Erin expressing disappointment Simon would not join them for lunch. Simon said she got along well with his parents,
but the relationship soured when she requested he paid child support. We'll stay across that story for you.
And that does it for us for tonight. Thanks very much for your company. Newsroom is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
