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Isa Soares Tonight
Trump Arrives In Netherlands For NATO Summit; NATO Chief Sends Flattering Message To Trump; New Russian Strikes Hit Ukraine Ahead Of NATO Summit; NATO Summit Begins In The Netherlands; World Leaders Gather In Netherlands; Starvation In Gaza. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired June 24, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, a high stakes meeting. U.S. President
Donald Trump arrives at The Hague for a crucial NATO Summit as he rebukes both Israel and Iran just hours after brokering a ceasefire agreement.
Then what hope is there for a diplomatic resolution to the conflict? I asked the former U.K. ambassador to Iran. We'll have that this hour. And
Trump delivered a stern instruction to Israel, turn back the warplanes. So, where does this leave Prime Minister Netanyahu? I discuss with an Israeli
journalist.
But first this hour. Just hours after his extraordinary outburst at Israel and Iran, Donald Trump has now touched down, as you saw in the Netherlands,
where the head of NATO says another big success is awaiting him. The U.S. President arrived in Amsterdam just a short while ago, about five minutes
or so ago.
He'll meet with the king and queen at the royal palace before heading to the NATO Summit at the Hague. Before departing Washington, though, Mr.
Trump tore into Israel and Iran over violations of a ceasefire he had announced a day earlier. Using coarse language at one point, he directed
much of his anger at his long-time ally, Israel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Israel, as soon as we made the deal, they came out and they dropped a load of bombs, the likes of
which I've never seen before. The biggest load that we've seen. I'm not happy with Israel. You know, when I say, OK, now you have 12 hours, you
don't go out in the first hour and just drop everything you have on them.
So, I'm not happy with them. I'm not happy with Iran either, but I'm really unhappy if Israel is going out this morning because of one rocket that
didn't land, that was shot, perhaps by mistake, that didn't land, I'm not happy about that.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You know what we have? We basically have two countries that have been fighting so long and so hard that they don't know what the fuck
they're doing. Do you understand that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: I think everyone understood that. Well, shortly after that, Mr. Trump posted a very flattering message he received from NATO Chief, Mark
Rutte, thanking him for his, quote, "decisive action in Iran". Rutte says it was something no one else dared to do, and makes us safer." He also
credited Mr. Trump with getting Europe to raise its defense spending, saying "it will be your win."
And yet, despite Mr. Trump's insistence that Iran's nuclear facilities have been completely demolished, his words, we still -- we still don't know. The
IAEA doesn't even know whether Iran moved its near weapons grade uranium to a safer location, because before, of course, the massive U.S. strikes. Mr.
Trump also raised eyebrows today with comments on NATO's cornerstone Article 5. Have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you still committed to Article 5 of NATO?
TRUMP: It depends on your definition. There's numerous definitions of Article 5, you know that, right? But I'm committed to being their friends.
You know, I've become friends with many of those leaders, and I'm committed to helping them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your comments just now about Article 5, that will probably make some people in Europe concerned. Can you clarify what you
mean? Are you still committed to mutual defense?
TRUMP: I'm committed to saving lives. I'm committed to life and safety, and I'm going to give you an exact definition when I get there. I just don't
want to do it on the back of an airplane.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And just for clarity, Article 5 is not about friendship. It's about of course, mutual defense pact. A lot to cover this hour. I want to begin
with our chief U.S. national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny, who is with us from Washington. Jeff, great to see you. President Trump, as we showed
the image to viewers arriving in Amsterdam just in the last few moments, taking credit, I think it's fair to say, for brokering peace between Israel
and Iran.
This, after scolding as we played there, both Iran and Israel, clearly showing, I think it's fair to say, Jeff, the frustration that has got him
to this point. But we've also heard in the last few moments from the Israeli military chief who said that the significant phase is over, but the
campaign against Iran is not. So, just speak to how the President is framing this moment.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, that frustration was clear by anyone listening, even reading his lips,
using the F word there.
[14:05:00]
It was frustration, no doubt. But it was also perhaps a bit of a message to both countries, to Israel, his displeasure, no question, but to Iran as
well. Making the case that the U.S. President is trying to be somewhat of an honest broker here. The main priority for the U.S. President and the
White House is to turn the page from this.
So, Isa, that's what really strikes me, is just how swift all of this happened, really, n a 48-hour period, from the bombing to, you know, the
announcement of a ceasefire. Of course, history shows us that a ceasefire is very complicated. So, we will see if it holds. It's fragile, no
question. But what you said at the very beginning, I think is also driving some of this, and that is still the unanswered question to all of this.
What is the state of the Iranian nuclear program? There's a sense of frustration at the White House, a sense of defensiveness from the
President, that's what some of his anger was also directed at. Some of the mere questioning about, was the nuclear program in the sites, obliterated.
Only the U.S. President is using that word. No one else is.
His Vice President is not. His defense officials are not either. So, we are going to have the BDA, if you will, the damage assessment. And that is, you
know, going to be more of a -- of a picture of the nuclear program going forward here. So, you get the sense that the White House is trying to move
beyond that matter.
And the Intel briefing on Capitol Hill here in Washington being abruptly delayed until later this week, also raises some questions about this. So,
certainly, the President was eager to have a ceasefire agreement in his back pocket, if you will, as he went to meet with the NATO leaders. He's on
his way right now to their first meeting.
But an actual progress of their ceasefire is still very much an open question, not to discount what's happening. I mean, it's been an
extraordinary bit of a diplomacy, there's no doubt, but it's hard to imagine, it's a straight line to a full ceasefire.
SOARES: Yes, and on that point, you know, I'm sure many diplomats will say calling for a ceasefire, getting a ceasefire easy as maintaining it is the
hard part with then, you know, you set it up, you know, ceasefires are inherently fragile. That much we've known. We've seen those across the
world.
But I wonder then how much this will dominate the NATO Summit, because many European countries were part of the diplomacy before, of course, the United
States was -- you know, decided to strike. How much do you think this will dominate the summit? Because we are seeing as you were talking, the Iran --
the Iranian President has said that his country is ready to resolve issues between Iran and the United States. This is according to Iranian state
media. Where does this go from here, diplomatically?
ZELENY: Look, I think this is going to dominate the meeting just because it quite literally is looming over it all. It's overshadowing it. It is the
most recent series of events, but that does not take away the actual substance of the meeting that has long been on the agenda. And that's
Ukraine. I mean, so -- the President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is also going to be at the NATO Summit.
He is expected to meet with the U.S. President as well. So, this meeting, certainly, became much more consequential, even though the U.S. President
Donald Trump is only going to be on the ground or scheduled to be for just a little bit under 24 hours. So, certainly, the Middle East is dominating
just because it is still so raw and real, but as is Russia-Ukraine.
But back to Article 5 for one second, I do think that, that is significant. This will also dominate this. I mean, there is one definition for Article
5. I'm not aware of other definitions for Article 5, and the only time it has been used, of course, history will show us after the 9/11 terror
attacks on the United States of America. That's why Article 5 is so important and sacrosanct, an attack on one is an attack on all.
So, that is the definition of Article 5, at least, by every President that has served in the office. So, this is something that we've heard President
Trump say this before. You know, he's venting frustration sometimes at the NATO spending and things, but this is a central question I think should
also send a shiver up the spines of some members of the -- of the alliance.
SOARES: Very briefly, because we're running out of time here, Jeff, do you know -- do we know whether the President is expected to meet with President
Zelenskyy?
ZELENY: We know that that's the anticipation that it is anticipated. It's not formally on the schedule. We know that President Zelenskyy was more
likely to meet with Secretary of State Marco Rubio, but it's the anticipation that, that is likely to happen, perhaps a meeting on the
sidelines or something.
[14:10:00]
If there would be no meeting, that would also be an extraordinary moment, because the President obviously is at the NATO Summit. And even though, the
Middle East is hanging over it, Ukraine is just as well, and it's right in the region, of course, and certainly front and center to all of the
conversations happening at the summit.
SOARES: Indeed, Jeff Zeleny, really appreciate your analysis, Jeff. Thank you very much indeed.
ZELENY: My pleasure --
SOARES: Well, I want to stay in Middle East because Israeli rescue crews are searching for survivors after strikes in Be'er Sheva. Officials say
several people were killed after Iranian missiles struck a residential building in the southern Israeli city. And this video you're looking at,
geolocated by CNN shows the aftermath of the attack.
And CNN was on the ground in Israel just after the Iranian missile hit Be'er Sheva. Our Jeremy Diamond reports now from the scene for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (on camera): In the final hour before the ceasefire between Israel and Iran went into effect, an Iranian
ballistic missile slammed directly into this residential building. You can see the power of the impact of that missile that made a direct hit on this
building, that column of concrete on the right side just alongside the impact.
That is where those protected spaces, those bomb shelters are located. But unfortunately, on the very top floor, that bomb shelter we're told, had
three people inside who were killed because of the fact that this was a direct impact. One other person was killed just outside the entrance to
this building.
And that, of course, speaks to the tragedy of this. The fact that four people were killed in Israel in the hours between when the ceasefire was
announced by President Trump and when it went into effect. And now, we know that there is this ceasefire that has taken hold between Israel and Iran.
But it is a tenuous ceasefire at that.
And we've already heard expressions of anger from President Trump directed at both Israel and Iran, in his view, saying that both countries have
violated this ceasefire agreement already. But there's no question that President Trump was directing the brunt of his anger at the Israeli
government. And we're told that he actually spoke with the Israeli Prime Minister to tell him that he does not want to see any more Israeli
airstrikes in Iran.
There were nonetheless reports of explosions in Iran after President Trump said that he didn't want to see any more Israeli strikes. So, some
uncertainty around that. But there's no question that the days ahead will be very fragile and a real test of this ceasefire agreement. Jeremy
Diamond, CNN, Be'er Sheva, Israel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: For the latest from Tel Aviv, I want to go to our chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward. And Clarissa, let me pick up
with what Jeremy was saying there. And there's that sense of frustration from President Trump calling out very clearly, Israel, saying Israel has to
calm down. How are those words being received by Prime Minister Netanyahu this hour?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, on an official level, I think there hasn't been a huge amount of response. I think that
Israel clearly is keen to keep President Trump on-side. Israeli officials are very grateful to President Trump. There is actually a huge poster
outside near the train station here in Tel Aviv, thanking President Trump.
So, the understanding from Israeli officials is that they need to rein it in. We've heard from the IDF chief of staff saying that now, the focus that
they're moving into a new phase, which were his words, that people still need to remain vigilant, but that the focus now moves to Gaza, to returning
the hostages, to toppling Hamas.
I think it's interesting to note as well, Isa, that we heard from the hostage family forum, the family members of those hostages, 50 in Gaza,
about 20 believed to still be alive, saying that they are pushing now and imploring Israel's leadership to include Gaza as part of this Israel-Iran
ceasefire.
Also very important to remind people, while this war has been going on between Israel and Iran, and the world's attention has been consumed by
that, that more than 860 people have died in Gaza, more than 70 just in the last 24 hours. So, Israel's forces saying that, that becomes their focus
now, but certainly still a sense that the hostilities between Israel and Iran, while they are formally now called off, that, that is still fragile.
Although, the home front command has said that they have now lifted the emergency -- state of emergency order and people are free to go back to
work, go back to school and get on with their lives, Isa.
SOARES: Clarissa Ward for us this hour in Tel Aviv, thanks very much, Clarissa. Let me take you to the streets of Tehran. There's been an uneasy
calm amid the fragile ceasefire. Some shops are open, but the fear remains after a night of intense bombings.
[14:15:00]
Israeli forces claim one of their targets was a radar site in northern Iran. Video obtained by CNN shows smoke rising as you can see there from
the area, our Fred Pleitgen has more there now on Tehran's reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): After the Israelis made that claim that Iranian missiles were flying
towards Israeli territory, I actually got in touch with a senior Iranian official who flat-out denied that the Iranians had fired any missiles
toward Israel after the ceasefire went into effect.
In fact, they said that the moment, that time had come for the ceasefire, that no missiles had been fired from the Iranian side. The Iranians also
now warning the Israelis against hitting Iranian territory, saying that, that would open up Iranian retaliation once again, and that everything
within what they call the occupied territories, of course, meaning all of Israel would then become a target for Iran.
So, some tough language coming out of Tehran here as well. Also, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, which of course, is that elite wing of
Iran's military, claiming that there were several violations of its soil, as they put it, by the Israelis, possibly meaning incursion by some sort of
aircraft in the hours after the ceasefire went into effect.
What we're seeing right now, actually, here in Tehran, is that things are fairly calm here. I was on the streets a little bit earlier today, there's
a lot of people who are out driving, some shops opening up.
TRUMP: As soon as we made the deal, they came out and they dropped a load of bombs, the likes of which I've never seen before.
PLEITGEN: But what the President said there about the Israelis unloading overnight after the ceasefire deal was announced, was definitely something
that we saw, and we felt here from our vantage point as well. I was up here on this roof when we all of a sudden heard Israeli Air Force planes streak,
or what seemed to be Israeli Air Force planes streaking past, and then extremely loud explosions rocking our building and then rocking also a lot
of other places in central Tehran as well.
We saw a lot of outgoing anti-aircraft gunfire coming from the Iranians. The skies here over the city really were illuminated. That went on for the
better part of, I would say, about half an hour or 45 minutes, maybe up to an hour, where those loud bangs continued. The Israelis, at some point even
issued evacuation orders for certain districts here in Tehran as of 2:30 in the morning, when obviously, people in those districts most probably would
have been asleep.
So, it certainly was a night that saw a lot of kinetic activity. And as of right now, the Iranians are saying that their forces are not firing back.
The Foreign Minister of this country, Abbas Araghchi, he came out and said that Iranian forces had fired until the moment that the ceasefire went into
effect, which the Iranians consider to be 4:00 a.m. in the morning, and that since then no projectiles, they say, have been fired from Iran towards
Israeli territory.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Fred Pleitgen, the only international correspondent there on the ground in Tehran. Well, joining us now is a former British ambassador to
Iran from 2018 to 2021, Rob Macaire. Ambassador, welcome to the show.
ROB MACAIRE, FORMER BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO IRAN: Thank you, Isa.
SOARES: Let me start with some of the comments we've seen by President Trump before he left to NATO. I know we showed viewers as he arrived in the
last, what? Seventeen minutes or so, twenty minutes. The conversation expected to be about Ukraine. I'm guessing this will dominate much of the
conversation, Iran, the Iran-Israel conflict.
What do you make of what the President said in the South Lawn today? Clearly, a sense of frustration and anger, not just at Iran, but also at
Israel, a long-time ally of the United States. And about a ceasefire that we know very little about in terms of the makeup of it.
MACAIRE: Yes, so, well, I think the President was expressing his anger and frustration, but he was also imposing his will on the parties. And I think
that is what we've seen, Isa. He has come in very clearly, very decisively, having carried out those military strikes and said, now is the time to
stop.
And I think that's what everyone outside hoped was going to happen, was that having involved the U.S. militarily, it gave the President the
authority to say, OK, enough and let's stop. So, I think that the ceasefire is --
SOARES: Do you think it can last?
MACAIRE: Yes, I think it can. I mean, I think that in the near term, it's likely to last because I think Israel has achieved most of what it set out
to do. I don't think it would have stopped otherwise. At least, it's stated objectives, not the regime change. And I think that Iran is unlikely to
want to reignite it, because Iran is manifestly the weaker party. So, I think that in the short to medium term, I think the ceasefire is likely to
last.
SOARES: Then this takes us to the question of where we go from here. Ceasefires, while they may last, they're inherently shaky. This is a
conversation I was having with our correspondent in Washington. The question, though, is trust. The Iranians feel that at least, give the sense
there is no trust given they were engaged in diplomatic talks with the Americans, caught off guard with Israel's attack. How do you build on the
diplomacy with this lack of trust?
MACAIRE: I think that's a crucial question. And of course, it's not just the recent events. I mean --
SOARES: Yes --
MACAIRE: I was serving in Iran when President Trump removed the U.S. from the nuclear agreement the first time around. And of course, Iran said,
well, look, we were fully complying with this. This was working. And now we've just been betrayed by the U.S. So, trust has been lacking between the
parties for some time.
[14:20:00]
But Iran is in a really weak position now. And there is a scope, and I think the prize is huge. If --
SOARES: Yes --
MACAIRE: The U.S. can leverage ceasefire and the role that it's given itself in the ceasefire, into starting the process of negotiations towards
some sort of lasting, stable status quo that deals with Iran's nuclear program, deals with it sort of winding back its support to non-state groups
in the region, that could transform the Middle East.
SOARES: But I'm guessing, ambassador, you don't -- you don't think the United States is going to move red lines when it comes to Iran's nuclear
program. That's still going to be the same.
MACAIRE: I mean, no one is going to want to do anything that allows Iran to have a scope --
SOARES: Right, so --
MACAIRE: To move back into nuclear --
SOARES: How prepared --
MACAIRE: And military nuclear program.
SOARES: How prepared is Iran from budging from those -- its own red lines?
MACAIRE: So, I suppose one of the -- one of the risks -- one of the reasons why this opportunity might be squandered would be if the U.S. came in or
outside powers came in with too much of a triumphalist approach, saying Iran is so weak we can dictate terms. And of course, you know what is in
the interests of the international community and the region is to have intrusive inspections into Iran's nuclear program, and to have agreed
stable controls on what Iran does.
And also to help, you know, leverage open that very close regime, you know, with a bit of the -- you know, if sanctions could be relaxed in return for
agreement on the nuclear, then you could see the -- a bit of relief for the Iranian people and hopefully, a better dynamic inside the country.
SOARES: You know, Iran better than most of us. What do you think, ambassador, the last 12 days have done to Iran? I'm not meaning,
militarily, I mean, as a whole.
MACAIRE: It's so difficult to generalize. I mean, it's a huge country. It's 90 million people. So, of course, you've got every different view
represented there. And I think people from outside tend to project their own views on when they say, what they think the Iranian people want or
feel. I think obviously, a lot of people rejoiced over the killing of some of these top generals --
SOARES: Yes --
MACAIRE: And the regime who they hate and despise being given a bloody nose. But I think that people also feel their country has been under
attack. So, there has obviously been a nationalist surge and rallying around that when the war was happening. I think what happens now is -- will
be determined partly by how the regime decides to go forward.
SOARES: How -- on that point, how does -- how -- what do you think the calculus is then for the regime? How do they go forward on this? Putting
aside, of course, the negotiations, if there are any, with the United States. We've heard in the last few moments claimed, where is it? Besides
saying that countries -- country claims -- this country achieved a historic victory that, but also saying in conversation with -- I think it's the
Saudi Arabians saying that they are prepared to be speaking, willing to engaging with the United States.
MACAIRE: Yes, well, I mean, I hope they do. And I hope --
SOARES: Yes --
MACAIRE: Those talks start. It will be incredibly difficult to get to an agreement. But the process itself is important, and I do think that, as I
say, as long as it isn't sabotaged at the start, only it doesn't have the rug pulled under it by demanding so much that the regime feels it can't
enter those talks, then I think there is a prospect of success and something that has actually worked for both sides.
But you know, don't forget, in the regime, there are, you know, the military will clearly have stepped up in during this war. A lot of the top
people were killed. People have replaced them. They may be more hardline. We may see a more --
SOARES: Such a point --
MACAIRE: More hardline regime. It certainly be absolutely determined to crush any sort of demonstrations or any popular risk of uprising. But the
question is, do they say to themselves, right, this has shown us we've got to go for a nuclear weapon, because if we had it, this wouldn't happen to
us, or do they accept there's a peaceful way forward which is in their interest, and allows them to survive?
Because, I mean, they want to keep their money, their power and their lives. You know, this is -- this is very real for the people at the top --
SOARES: Yes --
MACAIRE: Of the regime.
SOARES: For sure, interesting to see what happens next, and what else we hear from the Iranian side. It was the Iranian President that said,
according to Iranian state broadcaster, that his country is ready to resolve issues between Iran and the United States. This was in a call with
the Saudi Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman, who said he welcomed any assistance from friendly countries to help with this. Ambassador, thank you
very much for coming in --
MACAIRE: Thank you very much --
SOARES: Thank you very much indeed. And still to come right here on the show, can the world's largest alliance unite around a new defense spending
pledge? That is a big question at the NATO Summit in the Netherlands. We'll take you there after this short break. You are watching CNN.
And then later, actually, we're not going to break yet. And then later, I speak to Israeli journalist about how things are unfolding in the Middle
East amid the shaky ceasefire. Now, we are definitely going to a break. See you in a bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:00]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. We are taking you back to that critical NATO meeting in the Netherlands. I want to show you, if we have them, some
live pictures from The Hague where any minute now, members of the alliance are expected to assemble for a group photo.
One of the high stakes topics is whether the 32 members of the world's biggest security organization will unite around a new defense spending
pledge, and that could have serious implications, of course, for Ukraine's war-time leader. We're hearing that Volodymyr Zelenskyy will meet
potentially with U.S. President Donald Trump on the sidelines of the summit, and that's coming from a U.S. official.
Mr. Zelenskyy's search for continued aid is growing more urgent as Russia ramps up its attacks as we have seen this week, right across Ukraine. CNN
senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes joins me now from the Netherlands. And Kristen, I'm seeing there, President Trump on speaking to
reporters on Air Force One, said, now we're going to NATO and we'll get a new set of problems. What are in his eyes the problems here?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: When he talks about NATO, one of the things that he often says is that he doesn't understand
why the United States is paying so much, particularly when it comes to defense, because in his mind, and this is what he said publicly, why is the
United States paying for the defense of countries that are across the ocean?
And that's in part why you're seeing this goal around what you said signing this new wage to raise defense spending that would include about 5 percent
GDP from these members. That's something that President Trump has been pushing for, although recently, he said that he didn't think the United
States should have to pay that.
The United States, obviously, has been a member of NATO for -- long before President Trump came along. But he has had this kind of intense and tense
at times relationship with NATO, threatening to pull out of NATO, saying that he didn't really understand the meaning of NATO.
So, then you're seeing him come here with this backdrop, particularly interesting, given what we've seen in the past 24 hours, the backdrop of
the ceasefire in the Middle East. And part of what we're told is that this is going to serve as somewhat of a victory lap for President Trump as he
celebrates his success.
And he is, of course, is taking credit, as we have seen, for this ceasefire, shaky as it is, that's happening currently in the Middle East.
And part of the reason that he wanted this to work out as he was on his way here, was so he could take that, because he has long said that he believes
he is a peacemaker, and he thinks this is his opportunity, according to people around him, to show that his way also works.
President Trump has been running on this kind of America first mentality and agenda since he came into politics in 2015.
[14:30:08]
That's why he has such harsh words for NATO, has such harsh words for other world leaders because he's constantly saying that he wants to put the
benefits of the U.S. first not understanding the benefits of these alliances may bring.
So, it'll be interesting to see how all of these leaders interact with President Trump. One of the things we know a lot of them have been
concerned about is getting into any kind of public back and forth or public tit for tat because President Trump, of course, is known to get publicly
aggressive with world leaders on any stage. So, everyone is trying to kind of tiptoe around to see how the dynamics play out for the strip.
SOARES: Yes. Peacemaker. But of course, he did promise to end the war Ukrainian 24 hours and here we are. Let me just flesh out what you said in
terms of Article 5 and we played it earlier. The present was asked on board, via his airplane, Air Force One today, are you still committed to
Article 5 of NATO? His question -- his answer was, it depends on your definition. I'm committed to being their friends. I'm committed to saving
lives. I'm committed to safety, he says. Of course, Article 5 is -- requires members to defend each other from attack.
That, Kristen-- and you will hear this no doubt in the Netherlands, will send many -- will make many European leaders very worried indeed because
that 5 percent depends on whether the United States is fully on board here too.
HOLMES: Yes. And what we've heard from President Trump that he has indicated he's not fully on board. That that is not something that he fully
backs, the way that we've seen other presidents of historically back. And that's what's going to be interesting to see the dynamics here at play when
the president actually starts talking to these leaders and when this issue comes up.
Because I mean, for months and even during his first term, he has bashed the very concept of the NATO alliance, the idea that we should be defending
other countries, that we should be giving United States funding to these other countries. Again, that's -- obviously, it takes the concept or the
meaning out of the word alliance, as that is what you do in an alliance is support each other. But President Trump has long said that he believes only
or major -- majorly -- majority in the America first idea.
And so, we will come up and will be a topic of conversation. But I will say, you know, one of the things that we've learned from the G7 and we've
learned from these various world leaders is that they tend to tiptoe around President Trump, particularly when the cameras are rolling, when there are
these bilateral meetings, which we expect tomorrow, because they don't want to be publicly embarrassed. And we know that President Trump has had no
problem, as we've seen multiple times, embarrassing public leaders or embarrassing leaders on a public stage.
And so, how they get to this and how they confront President Trump is really going to be one of the dynamics that we're watching closely because
it has been difficult for -- and it's not just these leaders, it's for leaders around the globe to figure out their approach to handling this
president.
SOARES: Kristen, really appreciate it. Thank you very much. And just before you go, I want to show the live pictures again from The Hague, where any
member now -- do we have them -- members of the alliance are expected to assemble -- a red carpet is now out there -- assembled for a group photo.
As soon as that gets underway, we'll, of course, bring that to you.
In the meantime, still to come right here on the show, world Leaders are gathering for the NATO Summit as the ceasefire deal between Iran and Israel
continues to play out.
And then, a desperate situation for people facing starvation in Gaza. Health officials say yet again Palestinians attempting to access food have
come under Israeli fire. We'll bring you both those stories after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:00]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Right now, as you can see there, critical NATO Summit is on the way in The Hague, the Netherlands. It's 8:36 in the
evening, as you can see there, where world leaders are gathering to discuss important issues, including the conflict in the Middle East and the
Ukraine.
And why we are showing you this because they are supposed to gather for a group photo. The red -- the carpet is laid out already. Waiting -- some
cars are beginning to arrive. And this hour we are learning the U.S. president, Donald Trump, is expected to meet Ukrainian President Volodymyr
Zelenskyy, that is according to U.S. official.
That is, this of course the president's vehicle. The last hour we saw president arriving after predicting what he called a karma situation at the
summit, following what has been fragile ceasefire talks -- ceasefire between Iran and Israel.
Let's just wait for -- there is the president,. I'm just going to pause here just to listen in for just a few -- for a second.
And there is a president of the United States. President Trump arriving at The Hague, the Netherlands, of course, for the NATO Summit. Let's hear the
questions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, over here please. Mr. President?
SOARES: Everyone is very polite.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, please. One picture.
SOARES: And President Trump before leaving, of course, to the Netherlands speaking outside the White House lawn really flashed some intense anger
regarding the ceasefire that he brokered between Israel and Iran, which were growing -- was growing very fragile on these early hours. He had some
very harsh words, not just for Iran, but also for United States ally, Israel.
And now, you know, on Air Force One he said he had other problems now at NATO and that one of those concerns, of course, is regarding defense
spending and bringing the defense spending to 5 percent. No doubt that Iran, conversations over Iran, over Israel in terms of diplomacy will be on
the table, of course, be part of the discussions given of course that the Europeans were also part of some of these negotiations, some of these
discussions prior, of course, to the United States, striking some of Iran's facilities.
But also, very critical to many of NATO allies will be, of course, Ukraine and the war in Ukraine, and the pressure campaign that will need to be put
on President Putin, and for that defense spending, which has been critical, something that the president has been calling for, calling for 5 percent of
GDP.
[14:40:00]
Not all countries are on board. One of them was Spain, not keen -- not wanting to go down the 5 percent be. Today, it's a group photo we are
expecting. And then, the summit really gets underway with a president tomorrow.
We're going to leave those images for now. I want to continue focusing, of course, on the fragile Israel-Iran ceasefire that the president is taking
credit for. And here to discuss this Israeli writer and journalist, Yossi Melman. He's also co-author of "Spies Against Armageddon."
And, Yossi, apologies if I have to interrupt. We are looking here live images of the president, The Hague, meaning members of the royal family, I
believe. We don't have sound. Correct me if I'm wrong, guys. Do we have sound? No sound. So, apologies if I have to interrupt, Yossi. We have these
live images from The Hague.
But let me get a sense of what we heard from the president. And I was mentioning just a few moments ago, you know, this a fragile and shaky
ceasefire. We don't have the fine print on it. And we heard earlier today before leaving, of course, to The Hague a really frustrated and visibly
angry president with Israel and Iran and had some very strong words. How have -- do you think those words would've been received by the Netanyahu
campaign? And how significant, Yossi, do you think those comments are?
YOSSI MELMAN, CO-AUTHOR "SPIES AGAINST ARMAGEDDON" AND ISRAELI WRITER AND JOURNALIST: Well, it was very significant indeed, Isa. think I've never
seen U.S. president is so angry about an Israeli action, not even during the Obama days, which relations then were very tense or even Biden during
the war in Gaza.
So, yes, I think it -- the anger settled with Netanyahu. He realized it -- that he cannot push his luck too much, and that's why he succumbed to the
harsh words of Trump and all the Israeli airplanes, which were on their way to bomb Iran, to return back to their bases, aside from one symbolic
attack, strike, or dropping some bombs on the radar site in Iran.
SOARES: I wonder then, Yossi, how you think that changes the calculus for Prime Minister Netanyahu? We are seeing from -- the Israel says, we respect
the ceasefire with Iran as long as the other side does. This according to Israel Katz, who is Israel's defense minister. This something he told, we
understand, the U.S. secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth.
But we know also, Yossi, that President Trump clearly motivated to a ceasefire and doesn't want this to escalate. And clearly, wants to take the
credit here. But does Prime Minister Netanyahu feel the same way? And do you think that the President, President Trump, will have to restrain him in
some way here?
MELMAN: Yes, I think absolutely. I mean, it's a historical moment for Israel. I think it's the -- one of the third most successful, important
achievements in the history of Israel. The first one, the establishment of the State of Israel during a war with seven Arab nations in '48, '49. Then
the six days war of 1967. And now, Israel with the help of the United States and a very friendly U.S. administration, Israel removed the Iranian
nuclear threat and pushed it back for many, many years. And that was the -- you know, the life coming through for Netanyahu.
He was talking about it time and again. He tried two, three times to launch an attack against Iran. But the last moment he really -- he backed and
didn't execute. So, I think it's a very important. And now, the focus is on Gaza and whether President Trump would be able also to deliver his vision,
his request, his hope that there'll be a ceasefire in Gaza and the release of the hostages and maybe rebuilding of Gaza after 21 months.
SOARES: And I'll get to Gaza, Yossi, in just a moment. But you called it a successful achievement. And I wonder from your perspective who perhaps --
who you think is in the driver's seat in this conflict? We've seen President Trump, as you quite rightly pointed out, ordering the Israeli
planes to turn around. Trump, the meantime -- President Trump taking credit for the ceasefire. But it's been the Israelis, of course, that were on the
front foot here. Or do you -- who is leading it here? Who do you think has been leading this attack, this successful achievement?
[14:45:00]
MELMAN: Well, first of all, Netanyahu who had the guts to take such a determined decision to order the Israeli Air Force, the Israeli Army, and
the Mossad Intelligence Agency to go into action. Certainly, without the superb performance of the Mossad and the military intelligence and above
all, the Israeli Air Force, this success couldn't be achieved.
So, you know, Netanyahu gave the order. He decided to order and command the military. But after all, most of it goes to the military, to the
intelligence services that had such a precise intelligence on so many sites, and also, the Israeli rare showed a lot of resilience.
I mean, we suffered major blows in the last 12 days. 30,000 houses were damaged or destroyed. People were killed, more than thousand injured. So,
altogether, they're rare, the home front and the military are -- deserve the credit with the leadership of Netanyahu. And now, probably it would
show on his rating in the public opinion polls.
SOARES: Yossi, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us and thank you for your perspective. Thank you, Yossi.
MELMAN: Thank you.
SOARES: Now, Israel's military says, although a significant face is over, this campaign with Iran, it's not. But the IDF says, for now, it's turning
its attention back to Gaza, as you heard Yossi there. We warn you, the next video you're about to see is disturbing. Gaza health officials say, yet
again today, that dozens of Palestinians seeking food were killed by Israeli fire. They say at least 86 people in all were killed across Gaza
since midnight.
Al-Shifa Hospital calls a situation catastrophic since many patients were rushed to intensive care for surgery. One young Palestinian who was injured
says, those who don't die in the strikes will die of hunger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I was going to bring food to my family, to my siblings and my brother. We got injured. There was a lot of
fire. It is difficult, difficult. It is food with the taste of blood.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: I'm going to leave that there for just a second. Prime Minister, Netanyahu of Israel speaking. Let's listen in.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): -- such a friend like President Trump, and I thank him for cooperation. This is going
to reflect for each one of your security and your grandchildren and the Middle East.
Citizen of Israel, the 7th of October, we had the biggest disaster together, but the government and security forces and you, the people, we
managed to recover and fight back. 20 months later we are controlling the skies of Iran and we exact price, unprecedented price. Even we have
tremendous achievements, we are not going to be complacent. We are going to be the other way around. We have no intention to remove our foot from the
gas.
We are going to defeat Hamas and bring back the hostages. And the hostages' families, I'm saying, we didn't stop even for a second during the war to
bring our hostage back. Back the live and missing. And we are telling you to the bereaved families, your loved one didn't fall in vain. Their
(INAUDIBLE) managed us to break the axis of the Iranians.
Without this we couldn't destroy Tehran. And after eliminating the axis of evil, it's going to be prosperity in this region. We are working hard. We
will compensate everyone that got hurt and will bring the economy to new heights.
[14:50:00]
Citizens of Israel and our -- we are embracing the fallen families and we wish well to all the injured in all the campaign since the 7th of October.
Recently, I visited few cities that had many damage by Iran. As I promise the citizens, we will rebuild it. The citizen of Israel, I would like to
thank on your behalf to Eyal Zamir, chief general, to commanders, to head of Mossad, Barnea, and the Mossad warriors. The head of the IAF, Tomer Bar,
brave pilots that did such a tremendous job and the grant groups and (INAUDIBLE) and the intelligence groups that managed to uncover the secrets
of the enemy.
To my secretary, Roman Gofman, to the Israeli police, medical teams that saved many, many lives, and I would like to thank the defense minister,
Israel Katz, and all the other ministers that stood behind this historic decision, and everyone worked hard in their department. And they saw the
importance of the moment. Thank you for everything.
I would like to, most of all, thank you, citizen of Israel. This the time of unity that each citizen of Israel can say, together we did the
unbelievable.
The people has risen. Israel high. The people are alive and we guaranteed the eternity of Israel.
SOARES: You've been listening there to Prime Minister Netanyahu. I believe this was a taped address, but correct me, I asking my -- correct me if I'm
wrong in my ear. But let me just tell you what he said. Thanking the United States for U.S. cooperation, saying we control the skies over Iran. He said
they had -- Israel had tremendous achievements, but we are not complacent. No intention of removing our foot, he said, from the gas. We'll remove
Hamas and return the hostages, the living, of course, around 20 as we know, thought, as you know, to be alive.
He also said, and I'm quoting him here, "We have thwarted Iran's nuclear project. If anyone tries to restore it, we'll act with the same
determination and the same force to foil such an attempt. I repeat and say Iran will not have a nuclear weapon." So, Prime Minister Netanyahu there
hailing his historic victory for Iran.
And we have some breaking news now coming into CNN on how successful the U.S. attack in Iran actually was. I want to go straight to Zachary Cohen in
Washington, D.C. Zachary, what can you tell us here?
ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, we've just learned that the early U.S. intelligence assessment about that military strike against
Iranians nuclear facilities, we are learning that it was not a complete obliteration of those facilities as the way that Donald Trump, the
president here in the United States and some of his top officials have been claiming, specifically our -- the assessment as far as our source describe
it, say that there was limited damage inflicted on core components of Iran's nuclear program as a result of those strikes, that includes things
like limited damage to the centrifuges and to the stockpile of already enriched uranium.
Now, those are two key pieces of Iran's nuclear capability. And we are now learning for the first time through this assessment that we're told was
produced by the Defense Intelligence Agency, that the initial read on the situation is that those strikes did not successfully take out those
facilities and that the capability that comes with them.
Now, I do want to note that this a very initial early assessment and one that could change with further scrutiny over what is really the key
question in the wake of those military strikes, how much damage was done. The U.S. military has made clear since the strikes took place that the
tactical operation itself was a success, but has also reiterated that more time is needed to assess the damage component of it.
The initial -- again, the initial assessment around that is that the damage was relatively limited. It was mostly confined to the outside portions of
those facilities, and again, the core structures, the core components of the nuclear program itself appear to be relatively intact.
[14:55:00]
SOARES: And, you know, you're coming on with this breaking news for our viewers, of course, given -- and we've just heard from Netanyahu, we have
thwarted Iran's nuclear project, right? This what he said. The president had said, when was it, a day or so ago, saying that it had been
obliterated, completely and totally obliterated. What can you tell us what -- how the White House is responding to the this early U.S. Intelligence
assessment according to your sources here?
COHEN: Absolutely. We reached out to the White House for comment on this reporting before we broke it on your air just now, and we did get a
statement back from the White House press secretary, Karoline Leavitt, who said, I'm going to read this in full, this alleged assessment is flat out
wrong. It was classified as top secret, but was still leaked to CNN by an anonymous low-level loser in the Intelligence Community. The leaking of
this alleged assessment is a clear attempt to demean President Trump and discredit the brave fighter pilots who conducted a perfectly executed
mission to obliterate Iran's nuclear program. Everyone knows what happens when you drop 14, 30,000-pound bombs perfectly on their targets, total
obliteration.
And now, also defense secretary Pete Hegseth, bringing a statement to CNN, essentially pushing back on not the reporting itself, but on -- in --
supporting President Donald Trump's view that this did result in complete obliteration. The early returns though from the Intelligence Community
based on our reporting is that it does not line up.
SOARES: Exclusive reporting there from Zachary Cohen, who have no doubt will have much more in the next hour with Max Foster. "What We Know" is
next. Thank you, Zach.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
