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Isa Soares Tonight
NATO Leaders Formally Commit to 5 Percent Defense Spending; No Signs of Abating of Israel's Offensive in Gaza; Trump Disputes U.S. Intel Report; NYC Mayoral Race Surprise. Donald Trump: U.S. to Meet with Iran Next Week; Israel Says Its Focus is Now Shifting Back to Gaza. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired June 25, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: Thank you. A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, Donald Trump says the U.S.
will meet with Iran next week after claiming once again to have destroyed Tehran's nuclear sites. Then, on the ground in Tehran, CNN tours a
neighborhood badly damaged by Israeli strikes and speaks to residents there.
Plus, Israel says its focus has now turned to Gaza. We look at what that might mean for the millions of Palestinians there. But first, tonight, U.S.
President Donald Trump is heading back to Washington this hour after a brief NATO Summit that he calls a big success. He says he left the
Netherlands with a more positive view of the alliance, with fresh praise from NATO's chief ringing in his ears and a new commitment to defend
spending in his back pocket.
Mr. Trump focused many of his final remarks on Iran. He again insisted that U.S. bombs obliterated key Iranian nuclear sites, but conceded that an
earlier U.S. Intel report was, quote, "inconclusive". Mr. Trump also maintained that Iran did not move its highly enriched uranium before the
strikes, and said, quote, "we've spoken to people who have seen the site", without giving details, though.
Mr. Trump said Iran's program is so degraded, there's no need for diplomatic agreement. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to talk to them next week with Iran. We may sign an agreement -- I don't know. To me, I
don't think it's that necessary. I mean, they had a war, they fought. Now they're going back to their world. I don't care if I have an agreement or
not.
We -- the only thing we'd be asking for is what we were asking for before about, we want no nuclear, but we destroyed the nuclear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: NATO Chief Mark Rutte praised Mr. Trump's intervention in Iran. Rutte also said Mr. Trump deserves all the praise for getting NATO members
to boost their individual defense budgets. The U.S. President called that agreement a win for western civilization.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: In a very historic milestone this week, the NATO allies committed to dramatically increase their defense spending to that 5 percent of GDP,
something that no one really thought possible. And they said, you did it, sir. You did it. Well, I don't know if I did it, but I think I did. And
this is a monument really to victory.
But it's a monumental win for the United States because we were carrying much more than our fair share. It was quite unfair, actually. But this is a
big win for Europe and for actually western civilization.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, earlier, Mr. Trump shrugged off a question about Article 5, NATO's cornerstone pact, of course, on mutual defense. He said, quote, "if
I didn't stand with it, I wouldn't be here." And just a reminder, we spoke about this yesterday, just a day earlier, when asked if he supports Article
5, the U.S. President said it depends on how it was defined.
It's a conversation, of course, we have been having here on the show. We have reporters on three continents covering this story for you. I want to
begin our hour with Jeff Zeleny in Washington. So, Jeff, let me start first on what we heard from President Trump during that hour, one hour-plus news
conference.
And we heard him very clearly. We outlined some of the points there, President doubling down on that criticism of the league and the
Intelligence. Indeed, the content itself, just speak to that first.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, I mean, it was pretty clear that this has been an annoyance that the President has
really carried for several days. Just the idea that there was no obliteration because of the military strikes on Iran early Sunday morning.
The -- there's no doubt there was a severe damage. But the President's been hung up on that somewhat. But even as he was sort of pushing back on leaks
and doing a very familiar rant against the media, he also acknowledged that the early assessment was inaccurate report, and kind of moved on from
there.
So, a bit of a mixed messaging. He didn't deny that there was this analysis from the Defense Intelligence Agency, the arm of the Pentagon. But he
basically said in one breath, it was wrong, but also said it doesn't matter because the weapons were eliminated.
[14:05:00]
What he didn't say was when our Kaitlan Collins asked him the question, if he was basing that knowledge off of Israeli Intelligence or U.S.
Intelligence, but you just get the sense that the classified briefings here in Washington and on Capitol Hill have been either delayed for certain or
perhaps even called off.
The White House is not interested in sort of a deeper look at this, but clearly, he is sticking with his assessment that is limited. But I thought
an interesting point, Isa, was that he said the U.S. and Iran will meet next week --
SOARES: Yes --
ZELENY: But it doesn't matter if they sign an agreement or not. That was quite extraordinary. This is something that's been like hanging over every
President since really 1980. And just the idea that suddenly, there would not have to be a nuclear agreement with Iran seemed kind of wishful
thinking.
SOARES: And on that, I mean, what do we know first of all, about the nature of this meeting? We haven't heard from the Iranian side saying
whether that's going ahead. And what would the U.S. -- and I'm not sure the President touched on this, Jeff, would want to get out of this?
ZELENY: Look, we know very little about the meeting aside from the President announcing there at the podium. So, we do not know --
SOARES: Yes --
ZELENY: If it's a low level or high level, if it's direct or indirect, we will see if it ever comes to be. But clearly, the U.S. would like to get
some type of at least, a handshake agreement, I guess, perhaps a gentleman's agreement that, you know, there would be no more federation(ph)
of the nuclear program and just move on from there.
But again, we are seeing a pattern, really, every one of these -- The President, the White House so eager to move on from this, they're not
really focusing on the details. And that really is a central question. The President has long been concerned about things happening in his four years
in office, less concerned about things after he would leave office. And I would certainly put this in that camp.
SOARES: Yes, and the other side is a question of lack of trust, of course, on the other side. Jeff Zeleny --
ZELENY: Never mind, trust, but verify, I mean, that apparently --
SOARES: Yes --
ZELENY: Is out the window.
SOARES: Absolutely. That seemed the case. Jeff Zeleny, great perspective. Thanks very much.
ZELENY: You bet.
SOARES: Well, an important new development now as Israel works on its own assessment of the damage done to Iran's Fordo nuclear site by the recent
U.S. strike that we were just hearing there in the last few moments. Israel's Atomic Energy Commission says the attacks on the plant destroyed
its critical infrastructure.
And this statement coming after CNN reported on Tuesday that an early assessment from the Pentagon's Intelligence arm found that U.S. strikes in
Iran did not destroy the core components of the country's nuclear program - - conversation we have with Jeff Zeleny. I want to bring in CNN's Jeremy Diamond who joins me now in Tel Aviv.
So, Jeremy, first of all, speak to the timing of this assessment by Israel's Atomic Energy Agency, which states, I'm going to read it here, and
I'm going to, quote, "set back Iran's ability to develop nuclear weapons by many years". How was this assessment reached? And speak to what more you're
learning on this, Jeremy.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, the fact that this assessment was released not just by the Prime Minister's office, but also
by the White House itself, tells you a little bit about why it is being publicized at this moment to kind of back up what President Trump has been
saying, as he's been kind of dismissing this early assessment by the Defense Intelligence Agency based in the United States.
But it is important to note that this -- we don't have a ton of information about how this assessment was reached. However, I'm told that it does match
the assessment carried out by the Israeli military thus far. And we've heard as well from the Israeli military's Chief of Staff, Eyal Zamir, who
said that strikes have dealt damage. That is, quote, not a localized -- not localized, but a quote, "systemic blow".
He also said that he believes that Iran's nuclear facilities have suffered, quote, "severe", extensive and deep damage, setting it back by years. Now,
there's not a ton of specificity to these assessments, either by President Trump's own words by the Israeli military's Chief of Staff or by Israel's
Atomic Energy Agency.
We don't know exactly how many years they are talking about here, but the bottom line is, they are claiming that there has been severe damage dealt
to Iran's nuclear program. And also important to note that the Israeli Prime Minister has said that if Iran tries to reconstitute its nuclear
program in the future, then Israel will take action on that front once again.
We also heard similar comments from President Trump today, who said that he doesn't believe it's necessary for the United States to consider that at
this stage, he believes the program has been set back many years. But he said sure, when asked whether or not, the United States would consider
striking again should Iran go back to its nuclear activities.
[14:10:00]
SOARES: Let me just get your insight and analysis, Jeremy, from what we heard from Prime Minister Netanyahu, roughly at this time yesterday, a bit
later, in fact, but in this hour. We heard the Prime Minister say -- I mean, he claimed that Israel thwarted Iran's nuclear project. We also heard
him say that he wants to defeat Hamas and secure the return of the hostages.
The military chief, Israel's military chief, I should say, spoke of a new phase. What does that mean, Jeremy?
DIAMOND: Well, you know, there's no question that Israel believes that its achievements in Iran over the course of the last 12 days, you know, are
contributing to this kind of reshaping of the -- of the Middle East that the Israeli government has been after in the wake of Hamas' October 7th
attacks.
We have seen, of course, what Israel has done to Iran's proxies in the region, most notably Hezbollah, and the way in which Hezbollah has been
decimated and significantly weakened in the wake of Israel's war with that group in Lebanon. But now also, there's a sense of, you know, how will
Israel capitalize on the range of achievements that it has been able to have now?
And there is once again rising pressure as well from the hostage families to capitalize on this momentum and to move towards a ceasefire deal in Gaza
that would secure the release of the 50 remaining Israeli hostages held in Gaza. We've heard from the Qataris as well, who have indicated that they've
been speaking with all parties in recent days to try and capitalize on this momentum, following this ceasefire between Israel and Iran.
And of course, Hamas will have to also consider the fact that its main sponsor has now -- is now in a much weaker position as well. So, all of
these dynamics, both Israel's successes as well as the weakening of Iran, you know, the senses that all of that will contribute to perhaps moving
towards a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. The question is on what terms will such --
SOARES: Yes --
DIAMOND: A deal be achieved?
SOARES: Important context there from our Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv this hour, thank you, Jeremy. Well, after Iran's state media downplayed initial
reports of U.S. and Israeli damage to its nuclear program, the Foreign Ministry in Tehran is now claiming their installations were, quote, "badly
damaged" in the attacks.
And there's reported technical assessment of the facilities underway by Iranian Atomic Energy officials. Meantime, the head of the International
Atomic Energy Agency says his inspectors need to return to the sites in Iran for their own inspections. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAFAEL GROSSI, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY: So, for that to confirm for the whole situation to evaluate, we need to return.
Of course, we have to recognize that there was a -- there was a war, there was military action until yesterday. So, there is, of course, a common
sense and dignity that we need to respect.
But at the same time, we have said we need -- we need to return, we need to re-engage. And yesterday, I wrote a letter to Araghchi, saying, well, let's
meet to analyze the modalities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Rafael Grossi there. Joining me now for more is Beth Sanner, a CNN national security analyst and a former deputy director of U.S. National
Intelligence. Beth, great to have you on the show. Look, we have heard, and I think we had a graphic to show our viewers various, you know, various
Intelligence assessments without any supporting evidence of the strikes in -- in the strikes in Iran, one from Israel, one from Iran.
And the first one really that came out, which was brought to, you know, our attention, we brought to our audience yesterday was this preliminary
assessment produced by the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon's Intelligence arm. And for our viewers, Beth, just so you know, they're
looking at some of what that Trump said, obliteration, Iran badly damaged, Israel destroyed the site's critical infrastructure.
If you're a viewer at home and you're looking at these various assessments, the question is, who to believe, Beth. What is your assessment so far?
BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: OK, well, I would -- I keep thinking about "Star Wars" and Yoda talking to Luke Skywalker and saying,
patience, young Padawan. This is not something that is done quickly, and it is not consistent with our news cycle. And I know people want to know, but
there is a group of analysts in the -- in the Intelligence community called the National Intelligence Council, and these are people from all over the
Intelligence Community.
They belong to the office of the director of National Intelligence, and they are going to be reaching out to every part of the Intelligence
organization, as well as taking information from the Israelis and others, and they are going to put together a comprehensive assessment. I am sure
that, that will happen, because that's what has happened my entire career.
[14:15:00]
And that is important versus DIA, that has a preliminary, and I must say, low confidence assessment based mainly on battle damage assessment, not
necessarily the nuclear expertise that you can find all over the Intelligence community. So, I would just tell people, we need to take a
deep breath, and it's not actually helpful as well as it being completely illegal this DIA leak. I don't support that. Sorry journalists, but I
don't.
SOARES: Yes --
SANNER: Let's wait.
SOARES: Yes, and it takes -- I'm giving you a sense then, Beth, how long would something like this, I know -- how long is a piece of string, right?
But the work involved --
SANNER: Yes --
SOARES: To try the work involved, to try and get a sense of the damage done. What would a process like that look like?
SANNER: Right --
SOARES: I'm guessing you would need boots on the ground, right? Or some sort of Intelligence --
SANNER: It would be really helpful -- it would be really helpful to have Intelligence on the ground, and sometimes you can't get that right away.
Sometimes it takes a little while to turn that on. And, you know, it's clear that from Israeli operations and some of their statements that they
have human sources inside Iran, they had boots on the ground themselves.
You just heard Grossi saying, we really need to be back in Iran. We'll get to that in a minute, probably about the next steps.
SOARES: Yes --
SANNER: But you know, I would say, you know, give people a week to get all this information together because it's not just about what happened at
Fordo or at Natanz. It's also to assess, for example, what does the elimination of about two dozen senior scientists really mean? And what is
left of that infrastructure, because there are thousands of Iranian scientists and engineers and missile experts and otherwise, what happened
with the covert sites?
Maybe Israel hit some of those. Maybe we actually have new Intelligence. And the final thing I would say here, Becky, is that when this assessment
is done, it's going to be a static look at what is this now? It will not tell us what we could do as a country or what Israel could do as a country
to then mitigate anything --
SOARES: Yes --
SANNER: Going forward. And I think this is a very important concept, so, we may know, OK, this is a frozen program. This stuff might be all buried
underground. We would be able to see anyone moving toward it. And so, we could mitigate that --
SOARES: Yes --
SANNER: And we could keep it frozen.
SOARES: And I think really going to your first question, the first answer really, Beth, about the patience. I think viewers would probably accept
that I think if President Trump hadn't used the word, "obliterated", right? Because Trump is saying things that seemingly also, and we heard that today
kind of contradict each other.
One moment saying the U.S. attack set Iran's nuclear program back decades. The next saying Intelligence thus far is very inconclusive. If you're a
viewer, you're trying to read between the lines. So, just square that for us.
SANNER: Yes, I do think it's kind of an unfortunate use of that word, "obliterated".
SOARES: Yes --
SANNER: I think Fordo, you could say is obliterated in many ways, but it's been a statement of fact among nuclear experts in the United States and in
Israel, that you cannot bomb away Iran's nuclear program, because it's knowledge as well as we think probably, you know, there are some little
things hidden around.
So, it's really people are talking past each other here. It's not obliterated versus not obliterated. And this narrative of that is actually
taking away the nuance and removing the ability of us to actually have a conversation about, well, you know, it's pretty much frozen. What do we do
-- need to do to keep it that way? And I think that is why we're having so much trouble with this idea --
SOARES: Yes --
SANNER: Of Trump saying, we don't need an agreement.
SOARES: Let me ask you, I'm glad you went there, because that's exactly what I want to ask you. What happens next? Because they are -- President
Trump said today, they're expected to speak to Iran. We haven't heard from the Iranian side. We do not know what these negotiations -- what these
conversations would look like.
And President Trump said, you know, if they're so degraded, we don't -- we don't need an agreement at all. So, what are we likely to expect? First of
all, do you think that's the right thing to do? And what are we likely to see come out of these conversations of these talks here, Beth.
[14:20:00]
SANNER: Yes, I think we're stuck in this idea that if we -- if we are asking them for an agreement, it means that our mission wasn't successful.
So, he's equating an agreement with an acknowledgment that it wasn't obliteration. I think we need to erase that concept of that, this is about
that. We need to restructure our view into this idea of that was a very successful operation.
Now, we need to make sure that we move to the next phase. And the next phase is actually about accomplishing what President Trump talked about in
his trip to the Middle East. And that is having a safer, more secure and prosperous Middle East. And to do that, you need some agreements that
guarantees that this program remains moribund forever past Trump, and that you can maybe deal with some of these other threats, like the fact that
there are still missile threats against the rest of the region that should probably be dealt with.
So, I would turn this into a Trump legacy about the future. Yes, success, but now, let's lock that in, in a much broader way. And you need sanctions
relief, as he actually mentioned today --
SOARES: You get -- yes --
SANNER: In order to get there.
SOARES: Let me ask you just before you go, and this -- I'm just seeing this on X, this is Tulsi Gabbard; the director of National Intelligence
basic -- weighing in on the conversation that we're having over Intelligence. And "new Intelligence confirms what President has stated
numerous times, Iran's nuclear facilities have been destroyed.
If the Iranians chose to rebuild, they would have to rebuild all three facilities." She names "Natanz, Fordo, Isfahan entirely, which would likely
take years to do." Just your reaction to what we're hearing here, different levels now of government within the administration going to great pains to
state what they believe the Intelligence shows.
SANNER: I think that, that is, you know, I would say that that's not crazy. That idea that she just said. My worry is that, yes, years from now,
when Iran has every reason to want to take a nuclear program underground because they were just given the most clear message on earth, that having a
nuclear weapon is actually really important to protect your country.
So, you know, I'm not sure that you need to just rebuild those three sites. Maybe, you take another site and you build that secretly. So, that's the
worry is, not that all of this program has been preserved, but is there enough there that ultimately they could get there or get to something like
a crude bomb or a dirty bomb or something like that?
And that's why I think we need IAEA in there, and we need to actually start a conversation about a longer-term agreement with --
SOARES: Yes --
SANNER: Iran, that isn't done in two seconds.
SOARES: Yes, and we know this, President likes everything to be done very fast, so in diplomacy, as we know, right, Beth, takes a long time,
certainly takes more than six weeks of talks. But just for context, for our viewers, of course, Tulsi Gabbard and the President have been at odds
certainly over the question of striking Iran, at least before the President made the decision to strike those nuclear facilities.
So, interesting to get -- see her comment and her reaction to the Intelligence. Beth Sanner, great to have your perspective, good to see you,
Beth, thank you.
SANNER: Thank you, Becky.
SOARES: And still to come tonight, U.S. President Donald Trump took center stage at the NATO Summit as the alliance members voted to more than double
the defense spending targets. But there's an important caveat, but the details straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:00]
SOARES: Well, NATO allies delivered U.S. President Donald Trump a win by agreeing to boost their defense spending targets, or at least, most of them
did. The agreement leaves little room really for dissent. Spain and Belgium didn't fully commit to the increase, and there are grumblings from Hungary
that it wants changes to EU policy to meet its NATO target.
Other allies, however, are set to up their defense spending to 5 percent of GDP over a decade. That is up from the current target of 2 percent. For its
part, the U.S. currently spends about 3.4 percent of its GDP on defense. NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte offered strong praise for Mr. Trump's
involvement in spending negotiations during their talks earlier today, as well as applauding Trump's handling of the conflict between Israel and
Iran.
Let me get more perspective there from our correspondent, Clare Sebastian. So, Clare, just put some meat on the bones here. A lot -- President Trump,
I heard him say today, he spoke of tremendous things that were accomplished at the summit. Talk us through how tremendous they were, because several
countries don't think it was that great.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, I think it was a foreign policy win for Trump, as you said. I think to some extent, certainly for
NATO leadership, this is exactly what they wanted to get out of this summit. President Trump turned up, he was in a pretty upbeat mood. There
was no real drama.
And of course, they got that final statement that all 32 allies managed to sign, which does on paper commit them to a 5 percent increase in defense
spending -- to spending 5 percent of their GDP on defense over the next ten years, which is a significant ramp up from where we are right now. As you
alluded to, there is already -- this is one of the key risks coming out of this.
There is already some slippage in that coming into the summit, Spain said that they wouldn't be able to get to 5 percent. They could probably meet
NATO's capability targets, the kind of equipment and investment that they need that NATO has already laid out. Without doing that, we heard today
from Belgium's Prime Minister saying that if Spain could do that, perhaps Belgium would do the same.
Then you noted the comments from Viktor Orban of Hungary. So, I think that's one of the risks going forward, is that there's going to be slippage
in this. I think the second risk is what will the U.S. do if that happens? We already heard some pretty choice language from President Trump in his
press conference today directed at Spain, saying, you know, we're working on a trade deal with Spain.
If they don't pay up, we're going to make them pay more, suggesting that they'll use sort of trade-related retaliation to retaliate again, countries
-- against countries for what they're spending or not spending on defense. But on that issue of whether the U.S. will put pressure on other countries
to meet this target. I did put that question to the Lithuanian Defense Minister. Her country, of course, on the eastern flank of NATO, close to
the border with Russia. And this was her response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOVILE SAKALIENE, DEFENSE MINISTER, LITHUANIA: I am really hoping that pressure does continue. We are sitting on the eastern-northern flank of
NATO, and we see that Russia is not only waging war in Ukraine, but it is quite speedily expanding its military force. It's investing a lot in its
military industry. It's establishing new military districts, and it's continuing to threaten NATO. And therefore, I am up for all the pressure we
can get. I am up, I am up for all the speedy decisions we can make.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN: Well, she is up for all the pressure. She said, look, Ukraine, I think very strikingly, was not mentioned in that final statement. But the
European leaders that we've spoken to here say that it was very much still on the agenda. It is still of urgent concern. We put the question to many
of them as to whether it's sinking in to the White House, that the diplomatic track isn't working as of yet.
No real definitive answers on that. But it was interesting. President Trump, who met with President Zelenskyy here, came out of that meeting with
some criticism for President Putin, calling him misguided, saying that his ambitions may extend beyond Ukraine, but stopping short of committing to
any further military aid for Ukraine. And that, of course, makes the issue of defense spending even more urgent for the other 31 members of NATO here.
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Clare Sebastian for us The Hague. Thanks very much, Clare. I want to bring in the former director of policy
planning at NATO and CEO of Rasmussen Global, Fabrice Pothier. Fabrice, welcome to the show. Good to see you.
FABRICE POTHIER, CEO, RASMUSSEN GLOBAL AND FORMER DIRECTOR OF POLICY PLANNING, NATO: Thank you.
SOARES: Let me pick up really with what our correspondent at The Hague, Clare Sebastian, was talking about that, and it's this monumental win that
we heard from President Trump at the Summit Center, of course, around this pledge, a NATO pledge by members to boost defense spending by 5 percent,
obviously, for a decade, as we know was around 2 percent, but these are just pledges. I mean, the question is, can European country deliver?
We heard from Clare saying, you know, some outliers already, Spain say it's not going to meet that. Belgium saying, well, if Spain won't meet the 5
percent threshold, why do we have to? Speak to this rupture?
POTHIER: Well, I think it's not whether they can, is the fact that they must, because this is not just a favor we are doing to Donald Trump, even
though I think a lot of the presentation you have seen over the past few days were to flatter and to meet Trump's ego. But deep down and in a more
strategic way, this is what Europe needs to spend for its own security.
So, I think it's time to get on with it and I think there's a sense of necessity and urgency. And it's not just the European leaders, even though
you mentioned some of the decent voices, it's also the European population. I think there is a growing consensus in Europe that there is a threat at
outdoors and that we need to step up our defense and security commitment.
SOARES: You say that, Fabrice, but let me just show this graphic to our viewers. You can't see it, but I'll tell you what it says. According to
NATO data, roughly nine countries, eight or nine, I can't remember the top of my head, missed the 2 percent defense spending target. We are looking at
the breakdown in terms of share of GDP for 2024. I mean, what is the likelihood, you Spain -- you're saying Spain has to, must. Spain's already
said it won't. So, what then?
POTHIER: Well, I think you have a point that despite the necessity, you still have European leaders like the Spanish premier who will argue that
this is not that necessary. That, in fact, we can meet -- we can deliver 3.5 percent by just spending 2 percent. But this is just bad politics. And
I think Pedro Sanchez appeased his domestic political scene because he was being under attack because of some corruption case in his own party, and
the result of this appeasement is that he was appeasing to Vladimir Putin, because the message that it sends is that not -- the whole of Europe is in
agreement that we need to step up.
But I can tell you that the big majority, and especially big countries in the military domain like France, U.K., and especially Germany. Come on,
Germany will be spending by the end of the decade close to 160 billion euro a year. Twice the French defense spending. So, we are entering a new world.
And yes, not all of the European countries and leaders are following, but there's clearly a trajectory that is pushing us in a much better place than
we were in the past 10, 20 years.
AMANPOUR: And we'll, of course, let Sanchez respond to those comments that you've just made, but you just saying what he's referring to --
POTHIER: I live in Madrid. So, hopefully, I can still go there.
SOARES: Yes, I know. I know. But I think -- yes, I believe you. But I think hearing from the government, from -- would be great too. But he says
an investment that we continue to be sufficient, he said, realistic and something which is very important for Spain. Comparable -- compatible with
--
POTHIER: Spain is the biggest --
SOARES: -- our social model, with our welfare state. So, you know, that is Spain. But the reason that so many NATO countries, the reason why so many
have been asking for defense spending and President Trump, even in his first term, to be upped is not because of Ukraine, but because of the war
that Russia has started. Let's be very clear here, Fabrice.
On that, there were lots of warm words that we heard from our correspondent there, Clare Sebastian, at The Hague, for Ukraine and President Zelenskyy,
but there were no sanctions on Russia and we have yet to see, Fabrice, any further support for Ukraine. How should Europe, European NATO allies,
really, interpret the President's words and moves in what relates to Ukraine here?
POTHIER: I think we're in a really tough period for Ukraine because you see the U.S. policy not fundamentally changing and it's not a good policy.
It's one where there's not going to be any more U.S. military aid. This is one where Marco Rubio said it clearly, there's not going to be more U.S.
sanctions against Russia. So, it's a kind of non-policy, it's a zero policy in order because Trump wants to pursue his reset with Vladimir Putin, and I
think he's willing to sacrifice both Ukraine and in a way Europe.
[14:35:00]
So, it really falls on both the Ukrainians, but also the Europeans to significantly step up, be more creative. Europe is still sitting on
something like $150 billion of Russian frozen assets. And they're still arguing that they cannot touch them and use them because it'll set a
precedent. But now, we're in a brave new world and we need to adapt.
So, I think the European leaders need to also address their own contradiction because we cannot afford to lose Ukraine for moral reasons,
but also for strategic reasons, because the Russian threat will come closer and deeper in Europe.
SOARES: Fabrice Pothier, great to get your insight. Fabrice, thank you very much indeed.
POTHIER: Thank you very much.
SOARES: And still to come tonight, Israel's assaulting Gaza shows No sign yet of abating, but the ceasefire between Israel and Iran raises hope for a
breakthrough in Gaza talks. We explore that angle next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. After 12 days of intense strikes between Israel and Iran, the U.S. brokered ceasefire appears to be holding. And
while this dominates headlines, Palestinians and hostage families caught up in the region's longest war have slipped from the front pages. More than
860 people in Gaza have been killed by Israeli fire since Israel began its bombardment of -- on -- of Iran on June the 13th, and that is according to
CNN's own calculations of daily death tolls released by the Palestinian Health Ministry.
Israel's military chiefs says the IDF is shifting its focus back to Gaza now that a significant face, their words, of its campaign against Iran is
over. Our Salma Abdelaziz has this report for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Could a ceasefire deal be reached in Gaza after a truce was brokered to end a 12-day conflict between Israel and
Iran? There are now hopes and calls that diplomacy could win out in Gaza as well.
[14:40:00]
But Israel's offensive there shows no signs of slowing down. Just in the last couple of weeks while headlines were focused on Iran, more than 860
Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire inside the enclave, dozens of them were killed trying to get food in a place where starvation is spreading.
And where the U.N. warns more than 2 million people living there are on the brink of a manmade famine.
Now, President Trump has expressed optimism that the deal in Iran could open up channels for Gaza as well.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I think great progress is being made on Gaza. I think the -- because of this attack that we made, I think we're
going to have some very good news. I think that it helped a little bit. It showed a lot of power. Yes, I think it helped. But we're going to get --
separately, even before this, we were very close to making a deal on Gaza.
ABDELAZIZ: But in an address to his nation, Prime Minister Netanyahu said he's going to now return his focus to his battle against Hamas. He says
that Israel will not let its foot off the gas when it comes to its offensive on the enclave. But there is, of course, signs of just how much
pressure this is putting on the Israeli military. The call for reservists to join duty has been extended into July and at least seven Israeli
soldiers were killed in Southern Gaza, in Khan Younis, when a bomb attached to their armored vehicle detonated.
Now, on those mediation efforts, Qatar, which is of course one of the mediators, says that it does hope indirect talks could resume in the next
couple of days. It says that there are ongoing diplomatic efforts to find middle ground when it comes to the U.S. proposal currently on the table,
which proposes that a certain number of Israeli hostages would be released in exchange for a 60-day ceasefire.
Now, Hamas has said it is open to negotiations, but it is unwilling to lay down arms of course. But for the families inside Gaza still suffering in
that enclave, this deal needed to be reached yesterday.
Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Let's get more on this. I'm joined by Alon Pinkas, a former Israeli consul general in New York. Alon, great to see you. We'll go to --
we'll talk about Gaza in just a moment. This new phase, of course, as the prime minister has been talking about in the last 24 hours.
But first, let me just get your thoughts on these differing intelligence assessments of the attack on Iran's nuclear installations. You would've
seen the president's reaction to this report, preliminary report that came out roughly yesterday. And then, we've heard his assessment of it saying
it's been obliterated, totally obliterated. Israel for its part, as you can see, viewers, we able see saying the Fordow has been destroyed and the
site's critical infrastructure and rendered the enrichment facility inoperable.
So, lots of different assessments of what has taken place. What is your sense of how this conversation is being received in Israel and what you are
hearing, your side in terms of your sources, how effective these attacks were?
ALON PINKAS, FORMER ISRAELI CONSUL GENERAL IN NEW YORK: Oh, they were effective, Isa, in the sense that, you know, when you drop a 12 13-and-a-
half ton bombs on something, you know, it's going to be destroyed. But the question is, you know, the so-called BDA, battle damage assessment or bomb
damage assessment, and that requires forensics that we don't have yet, or those that we have are patently inconclusive. And so, we don't know.
Now, on the part of President Trump and the Israeli government and Prime Minister Netanyahu, you know, they hate party poopers. They hate an
intelligence report, Isa, that says, well, you know, the damage hasn't been complete. It's not exactly obliteration. It's not exactly elimination. Yes,
severe damage, but we don't know the extent. They don't like that. It doesn't sound well on CNN. You know, you need a sound bite, obliteration,
setback, destruction. OK. You don't have that.
But there's a more -- there's probably a more important distinction here or another issue to be -- another argument to be made. OK. Let's say, Isa,
that Fordow, the uranium enrichment facility. Natanz, also a uranium enrichment facility. And Isfahan, which is a uranium separation facility, a
different thing. Doesn't matter right now.
Let's say all three have been destroyed beyond recognition or inoperable, cannot be -- OK, fine. There is still the case of 400, probably slightly
more 400 kilos of enriched, uranium enriched to 60 percent level. The military grade is 90 percent.
[14:45:00]
The distance in terms of time between 60 percent and 90 percent, if you have the centrifuges to do that, and you don't need too many, is a matter
of weeks. Where are those 400 kilos? No one knows.
SOARES: And no one has been able to answer that question.
PINKAS: That's right. That's right.
SOARES: IS this a conversation then that is being had, this question of where are the 400 KGs, right?
PINKAS: Yes.
SOARES: Is this a conversation that is being had in Israel? Just speak to that. What questions are being had right now? And do people believe this
assessment, while it may be early on, and we know it takes time to get an early intelligence report of what they think has been achieved here?
PINKAS: OK. That's a great question because the -- you know, the issue is -- when you say people, who -- what exactly do you mean, Isa? The public?
SOARES: The public, yes.
PINKAS: The public wants to believe that everything was -- yes. The public wants to believe that everything was destroyed, that we set it back, that
we had destroyed, annihilated, obliterated, eviscerated everything. OK. But then you have both CNN and The New York Times separately, but in consort
saying, whoa, guys, the intelligence reports do not indicate what you want to believe. And so, the public is beginning to ask questions.
Now, then there's another group of people, the people who are in the loop or just outside the loop, or people who deal with it, they're asking a
question that pertains to the next few weeks or even few months, if those installations facilities, Fordow, Natanz, and Isfahan have not been
completely destroyed, if in fact there is a guy riding a motorcycle with a 400-kilo box in the back of enriched uranium, you know, he is going around
Tehran, and we don't know where and who he is and where he is, that creates a major policy dilemma, because what do you do if a month from now, two
months from now in the absence of a nuclear deal, in the absence of a nuclear deal, Isa, Iran analysis that it is going back to -- it is
reconstructing or reconstituting or, you know, revamping it's nuclear, OK, What do you do? Do you attack again? Does the U.S. attack again? Are we
going to go into the same scenario, the same movie, so to speak that we've been in the last two weeks? I don't know.
SOARES: Yes. Well, and President Trump said today, it's so degraded. There's no need for any sort of agreement with Iran. Alon Pinkas, it's
great to see you. And you know what? You've got my name right? Hey, this is great. Thank you very much.
PINKAS: OK.
SOARES: Great to see you.
PINKAS: Isa, listen, I called you Isa once because I have a friend named Isa. I will never do it again. Never.
SOARES: Isa great is a great name too. It's -- just here, it's an investment savings account. So, you know, good to see you, Alon.
Still to come tonight, CNN reports from Tehran in a neighborhood badly damaged by Israeli strikes. Our Fred Pleitgen can speak to residents there
after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: And more now in our top story, as the ceasefire between Israel and Iran continues to hold. Israel says it's, quote, "prepared" for increased
activity from Tehran's regional proxies. A spokesperson says the Israeli military follow any armed activity from those proxies you're looking at
right there on your screen, and this coming just days after Israel and Tehran agreed to a truce.
[14:50:00]
In the hours before the ceasefire went to effect on Tuesday morning, residents say Tehran was pounded by sustained Israeli airstrikes. Our Fred
Pleitgen is there at a building that was badly damaged just before the ceasefire was agreed. Have a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Here in the Iranian capitol, one thing that we noticed in the runup to the ceasefire is
that there was an increase in airstrikes, and the Iranians are saying some of them happened in residential areas, and they took us to some of the
sites in those residential areas that were hit.
You can tell here that this building was badly damaged by an airstrike. The Iranians are saying that a bakery was damaged, a beauty salon and two
residential units. They say several people were killed here. They're not saying who the people were who were killed, but they also say that one
person is still in hospital, and many people were also injured here as well.
We spoke to some of the residents who live in the adjacent buildings, and they told us how terrifying that situation was.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Suddenly, I heard an impact, he says, then an explosion. Before that, I heard a plane in the air. All the windows were
shattered over me, but the curtain stopped part of the glass. I was thrown to the corner of the kitchen.
PLEITGEN: You can tell the blast must have been pretty powerful. We're actually in the building next door now, and you can see there's significant
damage here as well. In fact, someone's chocolates are still here on this coffee table. And if we go over here into the room next door, this seems to
be some sort of office and maybe bedroom, there's still someone sleeping area here. It's unclear whether anybody was laying there, but if someone
was laying there, it must have been a terrifying experience.
We're inside the bakery in the building that was hit, and you could see the damage here is also significant. The folks here say that they were actually
lucky because they closed the bakery down three days prior to the strike simply because of the ongoing security situation with that Israeli aerial
campaign going on.
At the same time, there are a bunch of places here in Tehran now where people are cleaning up and picking up the pieces, trying to move on and
getting their business back in order.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Tehran.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And still to come tonight, a big surprise in the Democratic primary for New York City mayor. We'll take a look at the up-and-coming
winner who beat out the former governor. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:00]
SOARES: We are tracking a major political earthquake in New York City.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZOHRAN MAMDANI, (D) NEW YORK CITY MAYORAL CANDIDATE: Tonight, we made history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: That is 33-year-old Zohran Mamdani, is poised to move to November's general election. Mamdani is a Democratic socialist who came to
the United States as an immigrant. He ran on a platform freezing rent prices and free public transit. It was a crowded field with 11 candidates
and no one got more than 50 percent of the vote outright. And that means the race will formally be decided by rank choice votes that will be
announced starting July 1st.
Mamdani's top rival, former Governor Andrew Cuomo, has already conceded and congratulated his opponent. Once the results were finalized, Mamdani is set
to face incumbent Eric Adams and a Republican candidate in November.
And that is us for tonight. A very busy hour of news. Thank you very much for your company. Do stay right here. "What we know with Max Foster" is up
next. Have a wonderful evening. I shall see you tomorrow. Bye-bye.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
