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Isa Soares Tonight
President Trump Threatens Russia With Sanctions; U.N. Calls For Accountability Of Gaza's Mass Killings; Epstein Files Drama Riles Up MAGA Republicans; Trump Defends Pam Bondi; Dan Bongino Returns To Work; Trump Wants Epstein Drama To Die Down; Machine Gun Fire Near Aid Site In Gaza; Crackdown On Undocumented Immigrants. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired July 15, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, Moscow reacts to President Trump's
sanctions threat as the U.S. pledges new arms to Ukraine. The U.N. says there must be accountability for the mass shootings of people seeking aid
in Gaza, demanding investigations for each and every killing.
And MAGA at odds over the Jeffrey Epstein files. The U.S. President is battling the backlash as loyalty is put to the test. But first, tonight, a
green light or a red line. U.S. President Donald Trump is giving Moscow 50 days to make a peace deal with Kyiv before imposing economic consequences.
But critics say that extended timeframe also allows Russia to finish its brutal Summer offensive in Ukraine, and that threatened sanctions and 100
percent tariffs don't go far enough. The President announced his ultimatum at the White House on Monday during a meeting with NATO Secretary-General,
we brought you that yesterday.
But a much tougher penalty is being proposed right now in the U.S. Senate, one that includes a 500 percent tariff. Still, Mr. Trump says he's keeping
his options open. Here's what he said just moments ago, in fact, about whether or not Ukraine should target Moscow. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At the end of 50 days, if we don't have a deal, it's going to be too bad. Well, yes, the tariffs are
going to go on and other sanctions go on.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should Zelenskyy target Moscow? Should Zelenskyy target Moscow? Is he going to target --
TRUMP: No, he shouldn't target Moscow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Meanwhile, former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, as you can see there, is dismissing the tariff threat as a, quote, "theatrical ultimatum",
and says that Moscow doesn't care. Let's get more reaction on how Moscow is responding to the Trump tariff threat. I want to bring in CNN's Matthew
Chance who is live in the Russian capital.
And Matthew, I mean, just give us a sense there on the ground what the reaction has been from the Kremlin to this very clear change, both in
posture and in policy from the U.S. President.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Isa, I think it's been -- it's been pretty mixed in the sense that when it comes to the
pledge of weapons deliveries, there's been some concern expressed by the Kremlin, they said they took that suggestion very seriously.
But they were holding off on making a further comment on it because they wanted to analyze what exactly it meant. And as you just saw President
Trump just come out and said that he won't be sending long-range missiles to Ukraine, and he's not suggesting they target Moscow. And so, that will,
I think probably allay some of the concerns inside the Kremlin about what was coming their way.
But when it comes to the issue of sanctions, I think, you know, Russian officials have been much more relaxed about the possible impact of that.
Sergey Lavrov saying whatever they are, that will -- I mean, I'm paraphrasing him slightly, but he said we'll cope with them. And that
points to the fact, and talks to the fact that, you know, Russia is already one of the world's most sanctioned countries.
And it's developed this very flexible, very resilient economy with lots of workarounds to enable it to get around these sort of various rafts of
international sanctions. And I think the expectation is here, that it can do so again, even if there were secondary sanctions. But finally, that 50-
day period at which President Trump has given before any sanctions would potentially kick in.
I mean, that's a pretty big window for the Russian military to make ground, you know, make ground, you know, on -- in the battlefield, whether that's
in the front lines, whether that's in eroding, you know, kind of Ukrainian will, by bombing and, you know, staging drone attacks against their cities.
And so, that's something that's a factor as well. But as one senior Russian senator said, you know, shortly after President Trump made his initial
statement, he said, you know, also, you know, a lot can change in the mood in the White House and in NATO as well. You know, an indication that, you
know, 50 days when it comes to President Trump, you know, a whole load of things can change. He could change his mind yet again when it comes to
Russia. And so, I think Russians are a bit calm about that.
SOARES: Yes, and given how mercurial it is, it's interesting, of course, they react in this way. And we did hear President Trump saying just in the
last half-hour or so, Matthew, that, you know, he doesn't think that 20 days -- 50 days, pardon me, is that long.
[14:05:00]
Do you have a sense, Matthew, from your vantage point, what is -- what happens over those 50 days diplomatically? Are they engaging
diplomatically? Do you -- do you have a sense of that yet?
CHANCE: Well, there is a process that's already underway for talks directly between the Russians and the Ukrainians, although they don't seem to be
coming too much. I think the main issue is what will Russia do militarily? And it's certainly given no indication that it intends to let up on its big
push, either in the Donbas in eastern Ukraine, on the frontlines there, or in its campaign of sort of strategic aerial attack on towns and cities
across Ukraine.
I think probably the hope from the Russian point of view is that they -- although they're not expressing this publicly, of course, but I think
probably, privately, what they're -- what they're hoping is that they can make some significant military gains over the course of this next 50 days
or so until September during the Summer offensive.
Perhaps, you know, kind of erode the will of Ukrainians to keep on fighting a bit more over that period as well. And, you know, potentially, you know,
look at a more favorable situation in 50 days from now. But look, there's no sign at all that Russia is letting up on its military campaign or
backing off from its sort of Maximalist, you know, war objectives of essentially subjugating the neighboring country.
SOARES: Matthew Chance for us there this evening in Moscow. Good to see you, Matthew, thank you very much indeed. Let's get more on this, I'm
joined now by John Bolton, he's former U.S. ambassador to the U.N. and a former Trump national security adviser. Ambassador, welcome to the show.
Let me pick up with what we heard in the last, what? Twenty six minutes or so from the President just speaking on the White House lawn.
He said he will not be sending long-range missiles to Ukraine. This is something he was discussing potentially yesterday, roughly at this time. Is
that the right decision, you think, or how would you advise him on that?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: No, I think those kinds of missiles and related missile systems should have been sent, should
have been part of it. I think he could do a lot more in terms of aiding Ukraine. But I think this is the kind of Trump maneuver that shows that
those who believe that the decision even to send the Patriots represented a fundamental change in Trump's view, were wrong.
I think this is a reflection that Trump pushed him a little bit too far, went beyond the envelope that Trump thought was acceptable, and he's now
trying to turn the tables on Putin a little bit. But as he said to the "BBC" just the other evening, he's not done with Putin yet. I don't think
the friendship is over. I think he's just disappointed that Putin didn't give him what he thought he was going to get, which was a ceasefire in very
short order after he was inaugurated.
SOARES: So, what do you think, ambassador happens next? Because it's clear from what we've been hearing in the last several weeks or so, that we are
seeing a hardening of the position or the policy and the rhetoric from the United States when it comes to President Putin. But you know, as we were
just discussing with our correspondent in Moscow there, Matthew Chance, it doesn't seem that the Kremlin is rattled. What are your thoughts? Or do you
think this is just bravado from their side?
BOLTON: Well, I think it's a mistake to conclude there's some kind of shift in policy here. I don't think that's the way Trump does business. He sees
international relations as the equivalent of the relations between heads of state. So, if he's friends with Vladimir Putin, he thinks the U.S. has a
good relationship with Russia.
And the opposite is true. If he has a bad relationship with a foreign head of state, then state-to-state relations are bad. He thought his friendship
with Putin would bring a ceasefire. That has proven to be wrong. But he hasn't made a geo-strategic reassessment of U.S. interest in the Russia-
Ukraine conflict.
He's just irritated with Putin that he stood him up basically. So, he said, all right, fine, just to show that, I'll authorize air defense systems
like the Patriot to be delivered indirectly through NATO allies to Ukraine. So, that's what he said on Monday -- on Tuesday, he said he didn't want to
deliver offensive weapons. Who knows what he'll say tomorrow.
So, I'm just saying anybody who believes there's a fundamental change in U.S. policy at issue here, based on yesterday's comments, should think
again.
SOARES: Very interesting analysis from your side, ambassador. I wonder then what happens over the next 50 days because, you know, the Russians are
pretty much already betting that this deadline, which is somewhat arbitrary, may actually shift. In fact, one prominent Russian senator just
told CNN, I'm going to quote him here, "in 50 days, oh, how much can change both on the battlefield and in the mood of those in power in the U.S. and
NATO?"
Just your reaction of what you think is going to happen, possibly can happen or can shift in 50 days?
[14:10:00]
BOLTON: Well, I don't see the Russians suddenly being more willing to negotiate. They believe for reasons best known to them, they think they're
winning on the battlefield. I mean, the human cost is enormous, but they still consider it winning. As your correspondent said, there's talk of
invasion on a new front in northeast Ukraine.
Although, I wouldn't bet much on that given the Russian military's performance for the last three-and-a-half years. But that could shake
things up. And what it also comes down to is what they talk about in the financial media about Trump and the tariffs and the trade war. The famous
TACO trade. Trump always chickens out, so he may come to day 49 and say, how about another 50 days?
SOARES: Yes, and this is something that we have seen, and this quote from the senator does seem to touch on that. We heard from Senator Rick Scott,
who said that President Trump is being, quote, "very generous". These were his words with Putin. And he said he wants to see sanctions now. Do you
agree with that viewpoint? Because we are seeing, of course, this push by Senator Lindsey Graham and Blumenthal trying to get this through the
Senate.
BOLTON: Now, I agree with Senator Scott, and I think an overwhelming majority, certainly in the Senate and particularly among Republicans who
have made it clear that they think that Russia's behavior is totally unacceptable. I think putting more pressure on Russia is what's going to
bring them to the negotiating table, not less pressure.
SOARES: So, why hasn't -- why isn't President Trump going there? He's given so much leeway, ambassador. What is he waiting for here?
BOLTON: Because he thinks Vladimir Putin is his friend. That's not how Putin sees him. Just to be clear, Putin reflecting his KGB training, sees
Trump as an easy mark. But Trump likes Putin. He likes Xi Jinping, of Kim Jong un, the North Korean dictator, he said after their first meeting, they
fell in love.
He wants to be friends with Putin, and he's still hoping that friendship will come back. I remember in the first term, there were a number of
occasions when we pressed him under the CAATS Act, the Combating America's Adversaries through Sanctions Act. He ultimately -- Trump ultimately agreed
to the sanctions, but he did it kicking and screaming. He doesn't -- he doesn't like to impose these penalties, if you will, on Putin.
SOARES: At what point then, ambassador, do you think you will realize he's not his friend, that he's being played here?
BOLTON: Well, one would have hoped it didn't take four-and-a-half years basically --
SOARES: Yes --
BOLTON: I don't think he's there yet. I'm not sure -- I'm not sure if he's ever going to get there. Putin can misplay his hand, I think to an extent,
he has misplayed his hand. He's pushed the envelope with Trump a little bit further than he thought he could get away with. But it may be because he
has confidence that Russia is proceeding well on the battlefield, and that's his highest priority.
SOARES: Ambassador John Bolton, great to get your insight. Thank you very much, ambassador, for coming on the show.
BOLTON: Thanks for having me.
SOARES: Very welcome. Well, staying with President Trump, because soon the President is expected to lay out plans for a new $70 billion investment in
the A.I. tech and energy sectors. Industry CEOs have gathered in Pennsylvania waiting for the President to speak at this major A.I.
innovation event.
Leaving the White House earlier, Mr. Trump spoke to reporters about what to expect from the meeting. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're going to be touting about actually going to be numbers like nobody's ever heard before. It's mostly to do with A.I. We have tremendous
investments being made, literally trillions of dollars of investments being made in our country on A.I., artificial intelligence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Anna Stewart is monitoring all the angles here on this story. So, Anna, just talk us through what are we realistically likely to see come out
of this?
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Big investments from a whole --
SOARES: Yes --
STEWART: Host of companies. I mean, attending are BlackRock, Blackstone, SoftBank, Alphabet, Amazon, Anthropic, and the list just goes on. Anyone
who's anyone in technology and energy really are going to be at this thing, and I think we'll get a number of big investment announcements.
What is interesting is, if you consider the fact that we're in something of an A.I. battle where the U.S. obviously wants to be a superpower, you have
big economies like China who are very much rivaling them for that sort of dominant position. In the past, the U.S. has looked to use tariffs as a way
to encourage companies to manufacture and develop technology in the U.S.
Also, of course, using export controls to try and restrict technology, technology going to places like China. This is something else. This is
potentially what we're going to see as federal incentives to try and encourage investments --
SOARES: For creation of jobs in the United --
STEWART: Creation of jobs, which is possibly what businesses want more of. How much of the investment is brand new, and how much is rolled into other
announcements, some of these companies have made will be slightly unclear, I reckon.
[14:15:00]
SOARES: What are we likely, do you think, to hear from the President? Of course, he's been, you know, tooting his horn about the importance of
having businesses come to the United States, open factories in the United States, create jobs in the United States. What are we likely to hear from
him on this?
STEWART: I think you're likely to hear him say that the U.S. already dominates in technology and will continue to do so, and that he has brought
in billions of dollars of investment, billions of dollars in terms of tariff revenue. I think we'll hear more about -- we heard a lot about --
already, of course, on the way there, and we've already had one announcement from Blackstone, who have announced $25 billion in data
centers and energy infrastructure. And energy is the other part of the equation. Often, people think of A.I. as just a technology --
SOARES: Yes --
STEWART: But of course, by 2035, this technology will use up about 9 percent of American electricity. It's going to require a huge investment in
upgrading the grid and ensuring there is enough energy so that Americans don't have to pay more. So, that is the other part of this. And of course,
we know the President loves to talk about energy.
SOARES: Yes, and you mentioned BlackRock, I think. Talk us through who else is attending, because I think Tesla is having some sort of shareholder vote
on A.I. investment. I think that's probably separate. But talk us through who will be there today.
STEWART: It's really a who is who of tech and energy. I mean, I know BlackRock, Blackstone, SoftBank, Alphabet, but also ExxonMobil, Chevron,
Palantir, which is --
SOARES: Oh, wow --
STEWART: Of course, a big tech defense company. So, there are a number of names we're likely to hear from. And some of these will be announcing big
investments. And I suspect President Trump will have a very large number to include all of those. It could be 70, it could be $90 billion, I'm looking
forward to hearing it.
SOARES: And this is where he really feels at home, isn't it, President Trump? You know, with these CEOs and these executives talking business.
Anna, thank you very much indeed. What time is it happening?
STEWART: I think it kicks --
SOARES: This hour, right?
STEWART: Off in the next -- in the next hour, yes.
SOARES: Thank you very much, Anna, appreciate it. And still to come tonight, China has released its latest GDP numbers, but some are
questioning those figures. We'll take a look next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, the U.S. inflation is creeping back up. In June, inflation levels rose to 2.7 percent, that is the highest since February. That is
according to the latest consumer price index from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. And here's a look at the markets after that report. And we've
been seeing gas prices increase as well as those from President Donald Trump's tariffs, you can see there.
[14:20:00]
The Dow down 307 points or so, almost down seven-tenths of a percent. We keep an eye on those numbers, of course, for you throughout the hour. China
meanwhile, is reporting better-than-expected GDP growth as it appears to shrug off the Trump trade war. But experts say the Chinese economy still
faces some major challenges. Our Kristie Lu Stout has all the details for you from Hong Kong.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Fresh Chinese economic data is out, and it reveals resilience in the face of U.S.
tariffs, and China's second quarter GDP grew 5.2 percent year-on-year. That is down from 5.4 percent growth in the first quarter, but it's still above
China's annual target of around 5 percent.
Analysts say that the trade war may be dragging on sentiment, but it's not the massive shock that many originally feared. Still, China is facing some
major economic challenges. Nick Marro of the EAIU tells CNN this, quote, "we will need to untangle the difference between what the headline figure
says and what companies and households are seeing on the ground.
For many, this doesn't feel like an economy growing at around 5 percent", unquote. Now, China is facing a number of economic headwinds including low
consumer spending, low consumer confidence, high youth unemployment, and ongoing property slump. And Larry Hu of the Macquarie Group makes a link
between consumer spending and China's lagging property market.
He points out this, quote, "falling house prices have led to a negative wealth effect on consumption, as housing accounts for 60 percent to 70
percent of household wealth. Consumption will not recover until housing recovers." Now, in contrast, China's export machine keeps powering ahead.
In fact, according to new trade data that was released on Monday, China's year-on-year exports rose 5.8 percent in June as companies rushed to get
goods out of China as the trade truce holds.
But the clock is ticking. The current pause on higher U.S. tariffs on China expires on August the 12th. Kristie Lu Stout, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Our thanks to Kristie for that. Well, Nvidia says it will resume sales of a key artificial intelligence chip to China, the H20 Graphics
Processing Unit was designed specifically for China to comply with U.S. export regulations, but Nvidia was stopped from selling the chip in April.
Now, Nvidia says the U.S. government has assured the company it will grant -- be granted licenses to sell the H20 to China again. Nvidia chips are
highly coveted for their ability to run A.I. applications. And still to come tonight, the story that just won't go away. Donald Trump's MAGA base
is demanding answers on the Epstein files, as a top Democrat now suggests Congress should get involved. We'll bring you that story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:00]
SOARES: Well, it is a story that U.S. President Donald Trump wants to die down. But despite his best efforts, his own base refuses to drop it. MAGA
activists are demanding that Trump administration release files on the late Jeffrey Epstein, a disgraced financier and convicted sex offender who had a
powerful circle of friends.
Elon Musk fueled renewed interest in the case, if you remember when he recently claimed the President himself is in the files. Mr. Trump and
Epstein were acquaintances, and their relationship went back decades. But President Trump has repeatedly sought to distance himself from Epstein,
just days ago, calling him somebody that nobody cares about, except though they do.
The President's own Attorney General amped up interest when she promised to release Epstein's client list, another blockbuster moment just a few months
ago. Now, the Justice Department says, well, there's nothing to see. MAGA supporters on Capitol Hill say that's not going to cut it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): A lot of people on MAGA, they really want to know more information about the people that were involved with
Jeffrey Epstein. And is there a blackmail list? And are there foreign countries, governments involved? And there's nothing wrong with people
continuing to ask that.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: How big of a blowback is there right now in MAGA world specifically?
GREENE: It's pretty big, I have to be honest. I'm always honest about what's going on. And yes, this one -- this one has been pretty big.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And it's not just Republicans, House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries suggested the administration could be engaged in a cover up. He
says it's the duty of Congress to get to the truth. I want to bring in CNN's Kevin Liptak, who is at the White House. And Kevin, it's quite
something to see President Trump being at odds with the loudest and most, you know, conspiratorial faction of the MAGA movement.
Speak to the tensions and how the White House is handling the fallout, because I know the President addressed some of this at the White House
lawn, what? Half an hour or so ago, 45 minutes ago.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, he did. And you're right that it is unusual to see the President so at odds with his own base.
This is someone who has almost a preternatural grasp on what his base wants to see from him. And so, when he doesn't seem to have his finger on the
pulse of where they're heading, it really is unusual.
And in a lot of ways, it's the President getting trapped in a web he set for himself. You know, this is someone who has wagered in conspiracies
throughout his entire presidency. And now that the time has come for him to provide some answers on the conspiracies that he talked about, he seems
either unwilling or unable to do so, which has generated an enormous amount of anger among his supporters.
Initially, last week, his sort of objective was to dismiss all of this, which really did not go over well with his base. Today, he is issuing
something of a different tone. He isn't dismissing these questions out of hand. And in fact, he is saying that if Pam Bondi, the Attorney General can
potentially be more transparent and provide more information, that he would agree with that, that he thinks that she should potentially do that.
But he's downplaying the prospects that there could be more information, saying that these files were all created by his political rivals, including
James Comey, the former FBI director, Barack Obama, Joe Biden, essentially saying that if there are files to be seen that they couldn't be trusted.
And so, I think the President really kind of taking two points there, one that he wants to show that he is hearing these concerns of his supporters,
but also suggesting that these files, if they do exist, can't be trusted.
[14:30:09]
And so, two things I think that you're hearing from the president there. I think if there's a hope and expectation in this building behind me, it's
that this will eventually just sputter out, that it will go the way of so many previous Trump controversies and essentially just dissolve into the
ether.
And you have heard the president really trying to get some of his staunchest supporters who had been breaking with him on this to try and get
them back into line. It does seem as if he's having some effect, at least with one subset of that disaffected base, which are people who actually
work for him. And I'm thinking specifically of the deputy FBI director, Dan Bongino, who last week threatened to resign all -- over all of this, didn't
show up to work on Friday. And there were some questions about whether he was ever going to come back. He did show up to work yesterday. And things
seemed to have been smoothed over there.
But on the other side, you know, Bongino is someone who, one, has not necessarily sounded all that fond of the job he's in. But two, is trying to
retain some credibility among his audience. You know, he used to host a podcast on which he pedaled many of these conspiracies about Jeffrey
Epstein. And I think at the end of the day, the credibility issue is where a lot of these people are landing. They want to be able to maintain some of
this credibility with their viewers, with their audience, even if that necessarily means breaking with President Trump.
SOARES: Well, they're certainly painted themselves into a corner. We also heard President Trump say that Attorney General Pam Bondi has not briefed
him that his name appears in files related to Jeffrey Epstein. Thank you very much, Kevin. Appreciate for breaking it all down for us while
president.
Well, president -- while President Trump is hoping to be the Epstein uproar in his rear view mirror, as Kevin was saying there, Democrats are, as you
can imagine, pouncing on the issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), U.S. HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Option one, they lied for years. Option two, they're engaging in a coverup. At this point,
it seems reasonable. That can only be one of the two things. And so, it's Congress' responsibility in a bipartisan way to ask the questions and try
to get answers on behalf of the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: So, could the fallout from the Epstein files erode President Trump's previously unwavering base? CNN's Chief Data Analyst Harry Enten is
here to help us make sense of it, to crunch the numbers. Harry, then help us make sense of this. I mean, how dependent is Trump's 2024 win on those
conspiracy believers such as those who believe in QAnon?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes. Look, I think that Donald Trump has played in the waters with conspiracy believers throughout his entire
political career. And now, finally, it's perhaps coming back to Biden.
What are we talking about? Well, you mentioned QAnon, right? So, take a look here. Harris versus Trump, the 2024 margin. Look at this. Donald Trump
was leading amongst QAnon believers by, get this, 61 points. Amongst those who rejected or doubted QAnon. Kamala Harris actually was ahead by 16
points. The reason Donald Trump won the 2024 election was because he was able to win over conspiracy theorists, conspiracy believers, those who
believe in QAnon, those who believe there's something more going on in the Jeffrey Epstein files or the Jeffrey Epstein releases that have not
necessarily come out yet.
But it's not just the 2024 general election, it was also the primary. Remember, one of the big reasons that Donald Trump was able to rise up from
the political debt and win the 2024 Republican primary was because he was able to convince a lot of Republicans that Joe Biden's 2020 victory was
illegitimate. What are we talking about here? Choice for 2024 GOP nominee, those who chose Trump, by belief that Biden's 2021 was legitimate. Look,
Donald Trump was only getting 16 percent of that vote.
The reason he was able to win the primary was because he got 67 percent, two-thirds of those who said that Joe Biden's 2020 win was illegitimate,
which of course is garbage. His win was legitimate. He did in fact win the 2020 election, yet Donald Trump was able to win the primary because he
convinced a lot of Republicans then, in fact, Biden's win was illegitimate.
But it's not just about 2024, right? We can go all the way back to 2016. Remember, Donald Trump was a big peddler that Barack Obama was not born in
the United States of America. Of course, Barack Obama was born in the United States of America. But one of the things that Donald Trump was able
to do was win over a lot of those folks who believed otherwise.
What are we talking about here? Choice for 2016 GOP nominee. Get this, Donald Trump was winning 27 percent of those Republicans who said that
Obama was born in the U.S. But look here, amongst those who believed the falsehood that Barack Obama was foreign born, he nearly got double that
support, 51 percent. So, whether it's 2016 or 2024, whether it's the primaries or the general election season, Donald Trump has benefited
greatly during his political career by cultivating a base amongst conspiracy believers. And now, finally, maybe it's coming back to bite him.
Of course, though, we'll just have to wait and see. For now, we just know folks are dissatisfied. Whether it actually drags down Donald Trump's
support amongst Republicans, we'll have to wait and see.
[14:35:00]
SOARES: Indeed. But clearly, what you've just outlined, what we heard from Kevin Liptak as well, the administration clearly painting themselves into a
corner here. Harry, appreciate it. Thank you --
ENTEN: Thank you.
SOARES: -- very much indeed. Let's stay with the story. Holly Baltz is the investigations editor for the Palm Beach Post and has written about the
Epstein case for years. Holly, really appreciate you being with us. Just help us make sense for our viewers right around the world of what is
happening here. Because we remember clearly the President Trump and the administration was very hot on the Epstein files, saying the run up to
election, that they -- he would declassify the files. And now, they're changing their tune, basically saying, you heard from both our
correspondents, there's -- you know, there's nothing to see here. What do you think is happening here?
HOLLY BALTZ, INVESTIGATIONS EDITOR, THE PALM BEACH POST: Well, I kind of wonder whether those files are not new, just like the new -- the ones
released in February that everyone was so disappointed about.
The Justice Department not only did criminal investigation of Jeffrey Epstein, but also Ghislaine Maxwell, you had the same prosecutor, Jim
Comey's daughter. And they also did an extensive professional responsibility investigation about how federal prosecutors handled the
great deal he got in the mid-2000s to have a fairly short prison sentence. So, that's what I'm wondering is, there's just -- I kind of don't believe
there's there, there, unlike a lot of people but, you know, who knows. Jeffrey Epstein is always, you know, crazy.
SOARES: You don't believe that what there are files? Because at the moment, I wonder what the likely scenario is then, you know, and then Hakeem
Jeffries was talking about this, is that the likely scenario that officials lied about there being a conspiracy surrounding Epstein or that they're
lying to cover up that conspiracy? That's what we're all trying to figure out right now.
BALTZ: Right. I think that there may be investigative files. I don't know that anyone in the Justice Department ever investigated whether there was
some kind of conspiracy with Epstein. However, I guess what I'm saying is I don't know that there is a client list. You know, informer files that have
been released, there's certainly a lot of things that indicate, you know, people being linked to him, including his contact list. I don't know.
I just -- Epstein was so smart. I just don't know whether he would've put that all together in one place. And as we all know, people think that's how
he made his money, blackmailing people. So -- but that's just my opinion.
SOARES: Yes.
BALTZ: You know.
SOARES: Let me get a sense from you in terms of your reporting. The Justice Department also said, and the FBI, that the -- that Epstein died by suicide
and was not murdered in his New York jail cell. What questions do you remain unanswered here?
BALTZ: Well, you know, there's that little skip in the tape in the jail.
SOARES: The one minute. Is that the one minute you're referring to, Holly, here?
BALTZ: Yes, yes, yes. From what I've read about him and the kind of person he was, from lots of documents, and talking to people I don't think he
could stand to go to prison. And because -- well, for one thing, he had an addiction to sex. There -- it was like three times a day. He had to have
it. And you know, serial killers, serial criminals often kill themselves or escalate and then kill themselves when they see that the jig is up. So,
that's kind of where I lean. But again, Epstein always hard to tell.
SOARES: Yes. Look, we were just listening Pam Bondi, the attorney general, was just taking questions and she refused to go there on this, Holly,
basically saying, the memo speaks for itself. But very briefly here then, when you look then at this battle that's playing out within the White House
and the MAGA world, you know, was this writing on the wall given, you know, they kind of put themselves in a corner here?
[14:40:00]
BALTZ: Yes, it is kind of interesting. You know, and Bondi saying she had videotapes of children. That's bizarre. You know, it -- I don't know. It
seems like they've made some promise they couldn't keep, without it's possible that, you know, the Pam Bombies of the world had not seen exactly
what the Justice Department had.
On the other hand, though, why not release the files? There's a thing called redaction. So, you can cover up the names of victims and so forth.
So, people could at least get a sense of what's there.
SOARES: Yes.
BALTZ: Yes.
SOARES: And that is certainly what the MAGA base have been asking for. President Trump has said today that Bondi should release, quote, "Whatever
she thinks is credible on the Epstein investigation." We shall see. Holly, thank you very much for coming on the show. Really appreciate it.
BLACKWELL: Thanks for having me.
SOARES: Very welcome. And still ahead in the show, the U.N. is demanding accountability for the mass killing of aid seekers in Gaza, as a chilling
new video emerges of machine gunfire near a crowd. We'll bring you that story.
And then one family's difficult decision to self-deport from the U.S. amid the Trump administration's down on undocumented immigrants. That's after
this short break. You are watching the CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: And this just into CNN, U.S. ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, writing on X that he has asked Israel to, quote, "aggressively," his words,
investigate the murder of a 20-year-old Palestinian American in the occupied West Bank. A story we brought your attention from our Jeremy
Diamond and team yesterday, this time yesterday on the show.
Saif Musallet was beaten to death by his really settlers, that is according to his family and eyewitnesses. CNN's Jeremy Diamond has spoken with
Musallet's father who is demanding an American investigation into his son's death. Mike Huckabee, the U.S. ambassadors to Israel, now saying that he's
asked to investigate, aggressively investigate what happened. We'll stay across that story for you.
Well, the U.N. says there must be accountability for the mass shootings of Palestinians seeking aid in Gaza, demanding investigations for each and
every killing. A new video has merged of sustained machine gunfire near an aid side over the weekend.
Our Paula Hancocks has more, but we do want to warn you, her report has some disturbing scenes.
[14:45:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: New social media footage has emerged showing machine gunfire near an aid distribution site in Southern Gaza.
Now, this refers to an incident that happened on Saturday where the Palestinian Ministry of Health says at least 30 people were killed while
waiting for aid. Videos from the nearby Nasser Medical Complex also show rows of bodies covered in white shrouds.
Now, this social media video shows Palestinians crawling for safety. As you can see, bursts of gunfire hitting the ground just meters away. The source
of the gunfire is not seen. But multiple eyewitnesses have said that it was the Israeli military that was firing upon those who were waiting for food.
Now, we have asked the Israeli military, they have said that details of this video are under review. They did say on Saturday though that the
Israeli gunfire did not result in any deaths or injuries. Now, this particular site is about half a mile, some 800 meters away from one of the
distribution sites of the controversial GHF, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. It is a U.S.-Israeli-backed initiative.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THAMEEN AL-KHEETAN, SPOKESPERSON, U.N. HUMAN RIGHTS OFFICE: As of the 13th of July, we have recorded 875 people killed in Gaza while trying to get
food. 674 of them were killed in the vicinity of GHF sites.
Now, the data we have is based on our own information gathering through various reliable sources, including medical, human rights, and humanitarian
organizations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANCOCKS: The U.N. and humanitarian aid groups are calling for the distribution of aid to once again be funneled through the U.N. run groups
on the ground, saying that aid distribution in Gaza has become a death trap.
Paula Hancock's, CNN, Abu Dhabi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: The Trump administration has been pushing for undocumented migrants to self-deport, launching ad campaigns and offering financial incentives.
But for some families, including those with mixed citizenship status, the greatest motivation is fear. Priscilla Alvarez speaks to one family who
decided to voluntarily move to Mexico. This is their story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SASHA MENDOZA, U.S. CITIZEN (voice-over): These are the main pictures from our house that we didn't want to just throw away.
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sasha Mendoza has the impossible task of packing up her family's life in
Pittsburgh into a handful of suitcases.
S. MENDOZA: It's really hard to tell a four-year-old that they can't bring their toys or their stuffed animals. There's just not enough room. We can't
put a stuffed animal and then have no pants. I've literally never felt anxiety the way that I have in the last few years here.
ALVAREZ: So, you are saying 'bye to the U.S. for good?
JULIO MENDOZA, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT: For good. Yes, yes, for good.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Fearful of president Donald Trump's immigration crackdown. Sasha, her husband, Julio, and their three kids are leaving
behind the life they built together.
ALVAREZ: What are you the most excited for in Mexico?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The pool.
ALVAREZ: The pool?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the beach.
ALVAREZ: The beach.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Julio is an undocumented immigrant from Mexico. Sasha and their three children are all U.S. citizens. They decided to make the
move together only moments after Trump took office.
J. MENDOZA: It was an executive order being signed. And that was her call for, like, what do you think about moving to Mexico? And I said, honestly,
at this point, yes, let's do it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) to Mexico.
S. MENDOZA: We're going to move to Mexico. Not today.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): And with that, the family began to wind down their lives, sifting through keepsakes and moving out of their home.
S. MENDOZA: Say 'bye to the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bye-bye. Miss you.
ALVAREZ: When you were dating, did your status as being undocumented come up at all?
S. MENDOZA: On our first date, we kind of, like, were mentioning it without mentioning it. And at one point, he ordered a drink and he asked for extra
ice. They said, no, we don't we don't do ice here. And he was hmm. That was like the only thing he needed to say.
J. MENDOZA: So, by the way --
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Julio crossed the U.S. southern border when he was 11 years old and he's lived in Pittsburgh ever since.
S. MENDOZA: One of his first concerns when we talked about moving is like, how am I going to watch the Steeler games?
ALVAREZ: You're a Pittsburgh native, for all intents and purposes.
S. MENDOZA: Oh, my God, yes.
J. MENDOZA: Yes.
ALVAREZ: What made Trump, a second term, more nerve-wracking for you that - - to come to a decision that you had to leave the country?
J. MENDOZA: There are no limits. There are no limits on being a target. The only main concern is like, he looks brown, he looks different. He don't
speak English. He's the one. It doesn't matter.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: That's where things stand tonight in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): They were confronted with their worst nightmare when Kilmar Abrego Garcia was mistakenly deported to a notorious megaprison in
El Salvador.
[14:50:00]
S. MENDOZA (voice-over): I can see myself in that and I don't want us to wait until we're in the same situation.
ALVAREZ: There are people who will say, you came to the U.S. illegally. Why didn't you do it the right way? What do you say to people?
J. MENDOZA: If you were to be put in my situation at my age, to tell them to do it the right way, the whole process pretty much takes about 15 to 20
years. By that time, I don't think my kids or anyone's kids who are starving or are in a dangerous situation can wait 15-20 years for you to
come here and start working.
S. MENDOZA: What do we say that we could get when we get there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
S. MENDOZA: No, we did not say that.
ALVAREZ: How did you approach the conversation with your kids?
S. MENDOZA: They know the realistic part of it, which is that it will be very difficult for them to adapt to, especially -- mostly language wise.
That's like our biggest thing. They're not anywhere near fluent and they are going to be going into a school that is Spanish speaking.
Who's that? That's you.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): For Sasha leaving the U.S. also means saying goodbye to the places she's called home.
ALVAREZ: You grew up in this house. It seems like you all get together in this house for family reunions. What is it like for you to leave this house
and what it represents to you?
S. MENDOZA: It is definitely hard because, yes, there's a lot of good memories. This has always been like the kind of comeback place. As far as
we know, we won't be able to do that. We've kind of all decided that today is most likely the last time that we'll all be like in the same place at
the same time.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Hours of research behind them, the Mendoza family spent their final days in Pittsburgh, saying goodbye to family and friends.
J. MENDOZA: Stay safe, stay safe.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): It's a decision not taken lightly. But for Julio, no other choice.
J. MENDOZA: Rolling the dice will be staying here. That will be rolling the dice. Playing with my life, playing with my kids' life, playing with my
wife's life. That would be a gamble. Yes, I would say it's taking a gamble. I'm taking a certain win on this one for sure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[14:50:00]
SOARES: A tough decision. And that was Priscilla Alvarez reporting. A fantastic piece there. And still to come tonight, the best of the small
screen. Emmy nominations, it seems are out. We'll tell you which of your favorite shows made the cut when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:00]
SOARES: It is time to celebrate the best of the best when it comes to TV. The Emmy nominations were announced just a few hours ago. "Severance", "The
White Lotus", and "The Pitt" are considered strong contenders in the best drama category. I have to tell you I haven't seen any of them. Best comedy
nominees include past winner "Hacks" and "The Bear." Though watch out for newcomer, "The Studio," which has become a Hollywood darling.
And in the best limited series category, the viral hit, which I have seen, yay. I've seen one. "Adolescence" scored a nomination, as did "The
Penguin," a series about the Batman villain. And by the way, "The Pitt", "White Lotus", "Hacks" and "The Penguin" are all HBO shows. HBO is part of
CNN's parent company, Warner Brothers Discovery.
And let me show you this. Four boys in New York City were arrested after a drone caught them on top of the train subway surfing. The drone was being
operated by New York's transit drone team. The train was stopped and the boys were arrested. The youngest was just 12 years old.
And unreleased Beyonce tracks were stolen in Atlanta while the singer was in town for a "Cowboy Carter" tour. Police say a car being rented by her
choreographer was broken into. Two laptops and hard drives containing unreleased music, footage plans, and future set lists were among the items
stolen. An arrest warrant has been issued for an unnamed suspect.
And that does it for us for this hour. Do you stay right here. "What We Know with Max Foster" is up next. I shall see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
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