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Isa Soares Tonight
Hamas Carefully Reviewing Trump Plan; E.U. Leaders Meet in Denmark; More Than 90 People Buried Over Rubble in Indonesia; Dr. Jane Goodall Dies at Age 91. Republicans and Democrats Blame Each Other After the U.S. Government Officially Closes for Business; Bombardment Inside Gaza Intensifies As Hamas Reviews Trump's Peace Plan; Dozens of Students Trapped After School Collapses in Indonesia. Aired 2:00-3p ET
Aired October 01, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, D.C. deadlock. Republicans and Democrats
blaming each other after the U.S. government officially closes for business, the White House accusing Democrats of holding Americans hostage.
The top House Democrats response this very hour. Then, as Hamas reviews the Trump administration's peace plan for Gaza, the bombardment inside the
enclave intensifies. I'll be speaking to UNICEF on the ground there on the latest. Plus, a frantic search is underway in Indonesia after a boys school
collapsed, at least, 90 people are missing and officials warn time is running out.
We'll have that and much more, of course, ahead on the show. But we start on Capitol Hill right now, there's plenty of blame, plenty of accusations
as well as plenty of drama. But that's what's really noticeably absent are the negotiations this hour on day one of a U.S. government shutdown that
has the makings of a protracted fight amid the intense partisan divide.
And it's only -- it's one that could potentially impact global markets and lead to air travel headaches. As expected, two stopgap funding bills failed
to advance in Senate votes just a short time ago. As it stands, hundreds of thousands of federal workers could be furloughed and the Trump
administration has been warning that the shutdown could lead to mass firings.
Last hour, the Vice President had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES DAVID VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know, I can't predict what congressional Democrats are going to do, Peter, but I
actually don't think it's going to be that long of a shutdown. This is a pure guess from the Vice President of the United States, because I think
you already saw some evidence that moderate Democrats are cracking a little bit. They understand the fundamental illogic of this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, at the center of the standoff is healthcare. Democrats want to extend affordable care subsidies, something Republicans say is a
nonstarter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Rather than work with President Trump and Republicans to get this job done, as our party has done repeatedly in the
same situation over the years, Democrats want to play political games with the lives and the livelihoods of Americans. The simple truth is, Democrats
in Congress have dragged our country into another reckless shutdown to satisfy their far-left base. That is the truth. Whether or not the
government remains open or reopens is entirely up to them.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Republicans thought that they could barrel us into a shutdown because they didn't want to protect the healthcare of the
American people. Well, now they've seen they can't bully us. They can't barrel us. They don't have the votes to push their partisan bill through
that did nothing to protect the American healthcare.
So, the solution now is for both sides to sit down and come to an agreement that protects American healthcare.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: CNN's Arlette Saenz is on Capitol Hill and joins us now. And Arlette, clear, from what we've just heard, the both sides very much dug
in, both sides continuing the blame game -- of course, we heard from Vice President J.D. Vance saying the last hour, we're not going -- this is not
going to go on for very long.
You know, they may -- they may crack, talking about the Democrats, we are expecting, I want to show viewers this live images. Of course, we're
expecting to hear from Hakeem Jeffries; the House Minority leader, if we have those images. So, I may have to interrupt, but give us a sense of the
layout right now, Arlette, in terms of -- you know, what both sides are saying and whether any of them are willing to fold here.
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, publicly, we have heard from Democratic and Republican leadership who are simply digging in on their
positions. Republicans still believe that the way to end this crisis is by having Democrats sign on to that seven-week stopgap funding bill.
But Democratic leaders continue to say that they want to see some concessions on the issue of healthcare. But there was a very interesting
moment that played out on the Senate floor a bit earlier today. There was that vote once again for that GOP plan to fund the government for seven
weeks. That failed.
But during that vote, there was actually a bipartisan group of senators who huddled for quite a while, and you could see a lot of animation in their
exchanges and their voices as well.
[14:05:00]
Now, we caught up with some of those lawmakers following that discussion, and this was a group of senators who say that they want to find a way out
of this shutdown. They were tossing around various ideas. No one would specifically specify what they were considering here, but what they argue
is that the ability for these two sides to come together, Republicans and Democrats, and have them talking is a good start.
Democrats continue to say that they believe that the expiring Obamacare subsidies is something that they hope they can get Republicans on board
with. Part of the reason why is because health insurance premiums are set to spike if these subsidies expire. And this very month is when Americans
across the country will start to receive information about what their insurance will cost them in the coming year.
They believe that is something that will ultimately squeeze Republicans and bring them to the table. But right now, it does not -- there does not
appear to be a very clear off-ramp, even though there are some discussions happening among the rank-and-file. The Democratic leadership, Republican
leadership were not involved in those conversations. We will see if that changes as time goes --
SOARES: Yes --
SAENZ: On. Another interesting point that happened this afternoon was the budget director for the White House got on a call with House Republicans,
and according to three sources on that call, he said that the permanent layoffs of some federal workers will begin in the next day or two. He did
not specify how many or which agencies might be targeted, but he did indicate that those agencies that do not align with President Trump's
priority, that those areas might see layoffs of federal workers.
That is something that will place a lot of pressure on lawmakers back in their home states, back in their home districts, as people could soon be
out of a job if they are in the federal workforce. So, a lot of different dynamics at play at this moment. But right now, there still does not appear
to be a clear, immediate resolution to the shutdown, as it's now well into its first day.
SOARES: Arlette, thank you very much indeed for laying it all out for us, appreciate it. And like Arlette was saying, we don't know how long this
government shutdown will last, and Wall Street really hates, as you all know, uncertainty. Across the board, let me show you how the numbers are
looking. U.S. indices are trading -- well, pretty much green arrows right across the board.
I would say pretty flat to be honest. It's not even a reason to celebrate the Dow Industrial flat and Nasdaq up four-tenth of a percent. So, a very
similar picture with the S&P 500. We'll keep an eye on the numbers, of course, the numbers may be worth keeping an eye if this drags on beyond
today, if it goes past Friday, of course.
Because we're not going to expect to see some of the key data on Friday if this continues to Friday. And it's not just the U.S. that will feel the
pain of the shutdown. I want to bring in Edward Luce from the "Financial Times" to talk more about this. Edward, good to see you. Just to say in
advance that we are at -- hold for just a moment.
I had promised we'll go to Capitol Hill for House Minority leader Hakeem Jeffries. Let's listen in and we will talk afterwards.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Legislative leaders on Monday, we had a conversation that was designed to avoid a painful government shutdown and
address the Republican healthcare crisis. Subsequent to that meeting, we heard nothing from any of the legislative leaders on the Republican side.
And the President has been engaging in irresponsible and unserious behavior, demonstrating that all along, Republicans wanted to shut the
government down.
That's no surprise, because for decades, Republicans have consistently shut the government down as part of their efforts to try to extract and jam
their extreme right-wing agenda down the throats of the American people.
Democrats have repeatedly made clear, we are ready to sit down with anyone at any time and at any place in order now to reopen the government, to
enact the spending agreement that meets the needs of the American people, and to address the devastating Republican healthcare crisis that has caused
extraordinary harm on people all across the country.
In rural America, working-class America, urban America, small-town America, the heartland of America, and black and brown communities throughout
America. The Republican healthcare crisis is devastating, the likes of which no one has ever seen. Largest cut to Medicaid in American history. A
possible $536 billion cut to Medicare because of the one big ugly bill if Congress doesn't act by the end of the year.
[14:10:00]
Tens of millions of Americans are about to experience dramatically increased premiums, co-pays, and deductibles because of the Republican
unwillingness to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits. Hospitals, nursing homes and community-based health clinics are closing all across the
country, including in rural America, because of what Republicans have done, and the healthcare crisis they have triggered through their cruel actions
throughout this year.
Republicans have even canceled medical research in the United States of America, even as it relates to children who are battling cancer. The
Republican healthcare crisis is immoral in nature, and Democrats are fighting hard to reverse it. Cancel the cuts, lower the costs, save health
care on behalf of the American people. It's now my honor to yield to the Whip Katherine Clark --
SOARES: You have been listening there to the House Minority leader Hakeem Jeffries there, addressing, of course, the shutdown that we have seen. And
this falls, of course, in the last hour, we heard from J.D. Vance; the Vice President accusing the Democrats. You heard the Democrats there accusing
the Republican Party.
So, both sides very much entrenched, which is what we were discussing in the last -- well, ten minutes or so. Let me bring in Edward Luce from the
"Financial Times" to talk about this. And Edward, good to see you. Apologies, I had to briefly interrupt, but it's clear to see from what
we've just heard in the last few hours that both sides very much miles apart on this, and the disagreements as we've heard, are becoming a bit
more bitter, increasingly bitter, I should say. How do you see the messaging, this messaging war playing out here? Because the fear, of
course, is that this drags on?
EDWARD LUCE, U.S. NATIONAL EDITOR, FINANCIAL TIMES: Yes, I mean, it could well drag on for a while. The messaging, I think is pretty clear. It's
getting more entrenched. Both sides are digging in their heels, as you heard from Vice President Vance. He's saying the Democrats are breaking the
government in order to fund the healthcare of illegal immigrants.
I think that that's factually very contestable. And as you just heard from Minority leader Hakeem Jeffries, the Democrats line is that Republicans are
cutting heavily into American healthcare provision, that premiums are going to start soaring unless they come back to the table. I don't see those
lines changing too much, and I don't really see what gives here.
But what I will say is that, the Democrats remain quite stove-piped as a party. So, Chuck Schumer, the Senate leader of the Democrats and Jeffries
in the House, I don't think they've gathered Democratic governors from around the country to consult on what should be a national party line about
this situation.
I don't think there is a party-wide message here that would be drummed in day-in-and-day-out and repeated. And therefore, I'm a little bit skeptical
of the ability if it comes to a game of chicken between a unitary executive, a unitary White House under Trump and a fairly fragmented
Democratic Party, I'm skeptical that Democrats are going to win this.
SOARES: Let me stay with this. Let me stay with the Democrats, because interestingly, the "New York Times" wrote this today. "The Democratic
strategy", as you were talking about there, "to lean into the shutdown, is not without considerable risks. No one knows how long the shutdown will
last or which political party will ultimately shoulder the blame for breaking government programs."
And then it has a quote from Senator Lindsey Graham where he says, "they've got their base breathing down their neck about standing up to Trump." What
are then the risks for the Democrats here if they don't hold?
LUCE: So, the risks are that they look very weak. And that their standing as a party which has been falling during Trump's first eight months, even
whilst his own ratings have been falling. So, the laws of hydraulics are not working here. The risk is that the Democratic brand is further damaged.
Having said that, you know, if you look at the history of previous government shutdowns including two in Trump's first term, including one
very long one in Obama -- Barack Obama's second term as President, also over healthcare, by the way, and dating back through several of them, back
to 1994, they don't tend to have lasting damage on either party.
And they don't tend to register unless the debt ceiling is involved, which it isn't involved here. They don't tend to register dramatically with the
market. So, I'm skeptical of those who think that this is a really defining moment in opposition to Trump. I doubt it is.
[14:15:00]
SOARES: Yes, I mean, the markets, if -- I'm going to get my producer, Hannah(ph), just to bring those up, because as you mentioned them, very
much flat, the markets as we've seen in previous -- in previous occasions, very much take this on the chin. I suppose the question then depends how
long it drags on. As we know, we are expecting economic data, including the monthly jobs report on Friday.
So, we should see what the impact of that is. Let me turn to you, if I can, for the time being, Edward, to what we've seen from the Republican side,
because House Speaker Mike Johnson said today, "while a shutdown is very damaging for real American people who depend upon government services, it
can provide an opportunity to downsize the scope and scale of government."
So, this is not just a bargaining chip it seems for them, but clearly, an opportunity to cut jobs, which is something we heard from Arlette Saenz,
them, hinting from sources they can happen in the next few days, quite imminent, she said. President Trump then said this. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The last thing we want to do is shut it down. But a lot of good can come down from shutdowns. We can get
rid of a lot of things that we didn't want, and they'd be Democrat things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: So, shutdown and there will be Democrat things. Where are these likely to be? What are -- what are they likely to be? Where are these
likely to be?
LUCE: Well, if you look at Project 2025, which you know, is in some sense is a blueprint for Trump's second term. It is the sort of conservative
manifesto, the Trumpian MAGA manifesto. And you look at the fact that Russ Vought who -- Russell Vought, who is the head of Trump's Office of
Management and Budget, was really the coordinator of project 2025.
They look at opportunities such as this to gut the administrative, regulatory state. So, what would be a target of MAGA and of MAGA donors in
particular, well, the IRS, gutting the IRS and its ability to collect taxes, I think would be one obvious target that would hurt Democrats
gutting the Environmental Protection Agency. We've already, of course, seen --
SOARES: Yes --
LUCE: From Elon Musk's DOGE efforts a few months ago, the gutting of USAID and partial gutting of the U.S. Department of Education. In a way, some
people have dubbed this opportunity for the White House as DOGE 2.0. We could see far more extensive in-roads into the administrative, regulatory
state, whatever you call it than we saw in DOGE 1.0, precisely because Russell Vought is, I think, a lot more knowledgeable about the workings of
the federal government than Elon Musk is.
SOARES: Edward, always great to get your thoughts. Thank you very much indeed, really appreciate it. We'll stay, of course, on this story as it
continues to develop. And still to come tonight, Israel issues a final warning for all remaining Gaza city residents to leave immediately as the
Trump peace plan hangs in the balance. Up next, UNICEF's James Elder is in Gaza and will tell us how bad the situation is there, especially, of
course, for children.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
SOARES: And some breaking news to bring you. The legendary zoologist and conservationist, Dr. Jane Goodall has died at the age of 91. She's the
world's leading expert on chimpanzees. She spent more than six decades studying primates, of course, really understanding the animal behavior and
emotions. She's a real trailblazer in her field.
She gained global recognition for her tireless advocacy, as you all know, for animals and the environment. The news was confirmed on her official
Instagram. The post reading -- I'm reading part of it, "Dr. Goodall's discoveries as an ornithologist revolutionized science. She was a tireless
advocate for the protection and restoration of our natural world."
She is, of course, one -- considered one of the world's foremost experts on chimpanzees. And she began her research at the age of 26 in East Africa in
about 1960s, observing chimpanzees and they -- really the capability to engage in complex social behaviors. Jane Goodall, dead -- died here at the
age of 91. We will stay, of course, across this breaking news story.
The post coming in on her social media post. We'll stay across this, any more news, we can bring you and reaction from around the world, of course,
we'll bring that to you. I want to turn my attention now and your attention to Gaza, because there's a tense waiting game now as Hamas decides what it
wants to say about the Trump administration's peace plan for Gaza.
The militant group is coming under pressure from various Arab countries, and Hamas negotiators say they will give a response after they've consulted
with other Palestinian factions. The negotiators met with Qatari, Egyptian and Turkish officials on Tuesday night to discuss the peace proposal. And
we're hearing that from officials familiar with the talks.
Here's a quick reminder of some of the key points in that Trump proposal. All hostages, alive and dead will be returned within 72 hours of the plan's
acceptance. The proposal also offers a potential path to Palestinian statehood. Israel will not occupy or annex the territory, and full aid will
be sent in. Displaced Palestinians have been voicing mixed feelings about the peace plan. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): After two years of war, the decision calls for disarming Gaza. I feel both for and against it. I
support it because we are extremely exhausted, but I oppose it because we are the rightful owners of the land. And disarmament would mean submission
and surrender.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The most important thing is to stop the bloodshed. Let people return to their homes and end the destruction. We
want this massacre and nightmare to stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And of course, let's not lose sight of the situation on the ground in Gaza amid all this talk of peace. We are seeing an escalation in the
war. Health officials say more than 50 Palestinians were killed throughout Gaza over the past 24 hours. And as the IDF tightens, of course, its
encirclement of Gaza city, the Israeli Defense Minister has issued a final warning for all remaining residents to leave immediately.
Meanwhile, the Red Cross now says it's suspending operations in the famine- stricken city as Israel threatens to cut off northern Gaza and split the besieged territory in two. In a statement, the international committee of
the Red Cross crosses, quote, "civilians are being killed, forcibly displaced and made to endure dire conditions".
Let's get more on the situation on the ground. UNICEF's global spokesperson, James Elder, has returned to Gaza, where he says he sees gut-
wrenching destruction. He joins me now from the coastal town of Al-Mawasi. James, good to have you back on the show. Good to see you once again in
Gaza, where you say, and I've seen you said this on across social media in the last 24 hours, it's worse than ever. Just give us a sense of what
you've been seeing.
JAMES ELDER, SPOKESPERSON, UNICEF: Yes, Isa, hi there. Look across the Gaza Strip, sadly, I mean, in Gaza city, it's a -- it's a level of panic that
you now see. People feel -- feeling trapped there.
[14:25:00]
The bombardments, the airstrikes are relentless. We were there, you know, yesterday, and there were multiple airstrikes, and children on the ground,
many children emaciated, parents with huge amounts of stress, just even watching a single water truck, people said they hadn't seen for two or
three days.
And just that level of tension amongst people trying to access something that has been denied for a long time. And I had this woman come to me. He's
immaculately dressed somehow in all this, but just asking me, where can I go that will be safe? This idea that people have a choice is completely
contradictory at the moment because in her situation, she doesn't have any money to come south.
She has a father who is unwell. She knows coming south is grossly overpopulated without the food, water, medicine, tents that people need.
And she also knows that coming south, those tents, those so-called safe zones, Isa, regularly get bombed. So, it's a -- it's a desperate logic
being imposed on the people of Gaza right now, that they have this choice of where to move, they simply don't.
SOARES: Yes, they don't, and conditions, as you pointed out, we've heard repeatedly, James, are incredibly dire. And I wonder how then people
preparing as we head into the Winter months, the colder months.
ELDER: Yes, I spoke to a doctor today at Nasser Hospital here in the south, and he's terrified. He feels that viruses, Winter viruses have started
early. So, people who do have tents, and that's not all people. Large numbers of people are sleeping on the pavement now. They're sleeping in on
what we call round -- street roundabouts.
So, when the rains come, that's desperate for them. Those who do have tents, they've seen several seasons, so, they ripped -- some people's tents
are ripped because there's been airstrikes nearby. And of course, shrapnel rips through those. I've also been with families in the hospital whereby I
have seen children who are paralyzed from airstrikes, from shrapnel, who have got those burns, who have got amputations.
So, there's a desperation in terms of where people can go. And you're right, on the -- on the front of Winter, doctors are concerned around
viruses starting early. Maternal health is as bad as it's ever been, Isa, in the last -- in the first six months of this year, one in three women
gave birth either prematurely or their baby was underweight and went straight into ICU, one in three.
When I was at Nasser Hospital, which is serving around a million people, I'm talking about 15 to 20 babies, newborns, premature children as well in
the hospital corridor, in the hallways, I've never seen this. A mum whose baby was in ICU for three weeks and is now on the floor, three babies
sharing oxygen.
And this is -- this is based on the deprivations that we're trying to get to the north, again, we've been denied three times to get oxygen, to get
incubators from a hospital that's had an evacuation order and bring them here. But again, these restrictions that the cost has paid in the lives of
newborns, or in one woman who I spoke to, who had a miscarriage when she was forced to walk from Gaza city to the south.
SOARES: Goodness, you know, I'm assuming from what you're telling me, you don't have a team in the north. You heard probably the Red Cross basically
saying that they are leaving. They're basically pulling out. They're suspending operations there. I assume UNICEF doesn't have team on the
ground in Gaza city, James.
ELDER: No, we still do. We've still got colleagues there --
SOARES: Are you staying --
ELDER: We're trying --
SOARES: Yes --
ELDER: Desperately. We do, Isa, yes, there. I mean, these are frontline workers, and of course, there's a lot of Palestinian partners on the ground
as well. But now, there's UNICEF --
SOARES: Yes --
ELDER: Staff who I saw yesterday who are committed to staying. And as I say, we're trying desperately to get -- to get trucks to the north and we
tried this morning. I was in that convoy. It was denied to get incubators, to get oxygen, to get ventilators, to take them to Shifa and to bring them
down south. We have been denied that mission three times now, which, again, is costing lives every single day.
The children don't have incubators, of course, that would be solved if we could just bring incubators across the border, but that's denied. So, right
now, we're simply seeking those incubators that are in Gaza.
SOARES: Yes, and look, remind our viewers what you've told me right at the beginning. You said very early on, on this show, that this is a war on
children, James. And we are seeing not just in the number of casualties, some 20,000 or so according to Save the Children. But those facing
malnutrition -- and the numbers are staggering. I think it's something like more than 350 children a day according to UNICEF.
ELDER: Yes, the numbers are staggering, Isa. I was looking at the other day thinking, you know, reports of, you know, 19,500 girls and boys killed.
That's -- it's one an hour. And somehow when the world or the world leaders, those people with the influence here, when they have adjusted to
this type of brutality, something is profoundly wrong.
And I thought, well, what is the number that can crunch through? And I looked and there's -- it's a thousand babies that have been killed since
the horrors of October 7th. A thousand babies who didn't make it to the age of -- the age of one. And yes, beyond, if you will, beyond those deaths are
the large numbers that aren't recorded, which are around malnutrition, which are the children who have got that horrific collision on their bodies
of malnutrition and a lack of sanitation and viruses going around.
We don't -- we don't always record -- aren't able to record those deaths. Those children with cancer or leukemia, there's 3,500 children here who
require medical evacuation, but they can't get out, or western countries won't open their hospital doors and their hearts to these children. So,
there's a large number of unrecorded deaths of girls and boys here in Gaza.
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: And some of the conditions that you've brought to our attention, of course some of the clips you put on social
media, so easily treatable, right? So many of that is tied to the dire situation, the lack of healthcare, the lack of sanitation, clearly.
While I have you here though, James, can I get your reaction really to President Trump's 20-point peace proposal? We are actually waiting for word
from Hamas on this. But look, it's clear everyone wants an end to this war. How optimistic, James, are you that this could be it?
ELDER: Well, I think, I saw many, many times in Gaza in 2024, huge amounts of hope among the Palestinian people who are very tuned into this, both
because it's happening to them, but also because their literacy rights, meaning that they are well aware of international relations. And they saw
hope crushed time and time again.
Now, so I have to paraphrase those people, they're worried, they're skeptical, they want three things, they want peace, they want freedom, they
want dignity. Whatever happens, as someone said to me today, they must be reminded that whatever the actions are of an armed group here, you cannot
be holding civilians accountable. You cannot be denying children and mothers food, as we've seen. A pregnant woman I met two days ago, Isa,
who's pregnant with twins, who gets a meal a day, she's eating for three a meal a day. You can't deny those irrespective of what actions -- decisions
are making by armed groups. You certainly can't have the indiscriminate deaths, which has led to 20,000 girls and boys killed.
So, everyone hopes that this ends. But if it doesn't end, they certainly hope that they are not grouped together and punished in a way that they are
somehow responsible for the actions of a group they have no control over.
SOARES: Yes, heart-wrenching stories, really, from James Elder, UNICEF there on the ground. James, as always, we're incredibly grateful for your
time. Thank you very much, James.
Now, three suspected Hamas members are under arrest in Germany. They are accused of obtaining weapons for what prosecutors call assassinations
targeting Israelis and Jewish institutions. Police say they found various weapons, including an assault rifle, pistols and a large amount of ammo.
The suspects are expected to appear in court on Thursday.
And still to come tonight on the show, protecting an uncertain future. We'll have the highlights from today's E.U. summit in Denmark, as concerns
grow over Moscow's incursion into European airspace.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:00]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. The most dangerous situation since the end of the Second World War. That stark warning coming from the Danish prime
minister today. Earlier, she spoke out against Russia's ongoing war in Ukraine and Moscow's recent drone incursions into NATO airspace. Have a
listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
METTE FREDERIKSEN, DANISH PRIME MINISTER: I hope that everybody recognizes now that there is a hybrid war. And one day it's Poland, the other day it's
Denmark. And next week, it will probably somewhere else that we see sabotage or we see drones flying or we see -- yes, you can -- there are
many different kind of episodes. So, I see this from a European perspective. There is only one country that are willing to threat us, and
it is Russia. And therefore, we need a very strong answer back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: European security took the spotlight at today's E.U. summit in Denmark, as you can see there. One proposal is to use frozen Russian assets
to fund billions of dollars in loans to Kyiv. Excuse me, the Kremlin warns such a move would be considered, quote, "stealing." Denmark has been on
high alert and has temporarily banned civil drone flights since last week's suspicious drone activity at several airports and military sites.
Ukraine is accusing Russia of bombing Kharkiv overnight. Meanwhile, the attack sparked several fires, including at a city mark in some residential
buildings. Ukrainian officials say six people were injured. Meanwhile, Russia is warning a steep escalation if the U.S. sends Tomahawk missiles to
Kyiv. Tomahawks have such a long-range, they could easily hit Moscow if fired from Ukraine.
So, a lot for us to get through. My next guest is a foreign minister of Latvia, Baiba Braze, joins me now live from Riga. Foreign Minister, good to
have you back on the show. Lots being discussed today, as we've just outlined, including, of course, funding for Kyiv, Tomahawks in the
discussion. But also, it seems a discussion over a drone war proposal. How exactly would this work and how soon could this be in place?
BAIBA BRAZE, LATVIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Thanks for having me. And I fully agree with the Danish prime minister that Russia is waging a war against
all of us, that warfare doctrines that Russia has is one. It includes different means. It includes non-conventional or what we call hybrid war.
It can be influence peddling. It can be corruption. It can be sabotage or killings of opponents on foreign soils. It depends what objectives they
have. But it can also be conventional, as we see in Ukraine.
So, preferably Russia tries to get its objectives through non-conventional, non-military means, but they don't shy away also from military means. So,
we have to be very ready for various scenarios. And we have to take our security and defense very seriously.
So, part of that was 5 percent decision upon President Trump's leadership in NATO summit in The Hague this summer, where all the allies agreed to
invest 5 percent in defense, both core defense spending and the defense spending on cybersecurity, resilience, and others.
And then also, of course, it's the overall societal resilience and readiness where we see that the drones, as we have seen both the drone
warfare in Ukraine, but also the confusion that Russia is trying to create, as it was in Poland, for example, flying quite a number of drones inside
and saying, oh, it was an accident or it was not intentional. But such an amount of drones, quite clearly, it doesn't happen by itself. And so, we
have to be ready as all of us.
[14:40:00]
SOARES: And so -- right. So, what would this drone -- how would exactly would this drone wall work then, Foreign Minister?
BRAZE: I think the drone wall, as two words, is actually a concept. So, that means a concept which means readiness to both identify, have the
means, sensors, rather as a whole set of both technological but also procedural readiness to identify, detect -- detect, identify, but also then
to be ready, if necessary, to take down the drones if they create a danger or threat or anything to us.
So, it's a complicated -- it's not like building a fence. It's a complicated set of means that can be ground-based, that can be air-based,
that can be drone to drone, like drone interceptors against the drones coming to you, which means using artificial intelligence to identify, so
having sufficient data.
So, Latvia, together with the United Kingdom, is leading the drone -- so- called drone coalition, which means that our private sectors, defense sectors of all the coalition countries work together to both, again,
develop these means of defense, but also to develop means of prevention and, if necessary, attack and taking down the attacking drones.
SOARES: Let me get your thoughts then, because it seems that this drone wall idea, this proposal that you're just outlining, is already, Foreign
Minister, facing criticism, at least from Germany, France. The German defense minister, Pistorius, said, quote, "drone defense, of course, but
not by a drone wall." The French president, Emmanuel Macron, said, and I'm quoting here, "I'm wary of those kinds of terms, things are a little more
sophisticated," and he's calling for more layered approach of long and short-term air defenses. I mean, how likely is this to go ahead? Because
the time frame, from what I understand, is years from now.
BRAZE: The drone wall is a good calling sign. So, it doesn't mean, you know, the wall, you know, 6,000 meters up in the air.
SOARES: Yes, but what I understand is that there are disparities and there are difference of views within the European Union about this.
BRAZE: There are differing opinions with regard to various situations. As we saw in Denmark, it applies both to Denmark, because, again, it was
heavily affected by unidentified drones. And Denmark still has to attribute what it was. In our case, we had a Russian Shahed, Iranian-produced Shahed,
falling onto our territory. In Polish case, it was very clear, Russian drones that were flying into its territory, both decoys, but actually armed
drones.
So, it can be various situations and there will be various answers, but quite clearly, for the countries on Russia's borders, we have to be able to
detect, identify as early as possible, preferably on the other side of the border, because if they cross into our border, we have little time to
actually take action. But then also, if necessary, to destroy.
And that relates also to all types of other challenges. It can be different types of situations. And countries more in the center will face possibly,
like Denmark did, different challenges. But it's still a challenge. They still need the same capabilities. It's also procedural, procedural
readiness, because you need to be able to close your civilian space, if necessary, very, very early and very fast. Because to take something down,
you don't want to make mistakes, right?
SOARES: Foreign Minister, very briefly, because we are running out of time. You -- I heard you saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you've
had a Shahed drone fall on Latvia. Is that the case? And if -- when did this incursion happen? If it happens again, will you -- would you heed the
words of President Trump and say they should shoot them down? What would Latvia do in this instance, if it happens again?
BRAZE: Absolutely. In our case, it was a year ago, last September, when a Shahed drone fell. It was an armed drone. And luckily, it fell onto a
field. So, it didn't create damage. But from there on, we started working on our countermeasures. So, we have -- I'm not going to tell you publicly
what countermeasures we have, but we are quite --
SOARES: But would you shoot it down? Would you shoot it down if it does?
BRAZE: Yes, yes.
SOARES: You would?
BRAZE: Yes.
SOARES: Foreign Minister --
BRAZE: We have closed airspace on our border. So, we know how far in we have the right to take everything down.
SOARES: Foreign Minister, really appreciate you taking the time as always. Thank you very much. Good to see you. We'll have much more after this short
break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
SOARES: A frantic search is underway to find dozens of students buried under the rubble of a collapsed boys' school in Indonesia. At least three
people died when the building in East Java Province collapsed on Monday. But more than 90 are still missing, their families left with an agonizing
wait for answers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLY ABDULLAH ARIF, UNCLE OF MISSING STUDENT (through translator): What I feel now is, how is my nephew faring? I've been looking for him all day,
and I can't find him until I cried. I'm sorry. I don't know how he's doing, whether he can be saved, whether he's dead or alive. I just hope that the
search and rescue team can evacuate my nephew safely, and I hope my nephew can survive the evacuation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Rescue workers warning, of course, the clock is running out to find survivors. Our Ivan Watson is monitoring the operation for you from
Hong Kong.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A frantic search and rescue operation is underway in the Indonesian city of Sidoarjo. This after
a boys' Islamic boarding school suddenly collapsed on Monday afternoon as boys ages 12 to 18 were conducting afternoon prayer. So, there are scores
of people feared to be missing, a desperate vigil being conducted nearby by parents who want to know any kind of information about their missing
children.
The search and rescue workers are operating in rubble that they say is very unstable and complicating the effort. They say they have special search
cameras for the operation, as well as a heart monitor. And one official has told CNN that they have actually communicated with at least six boys who
have been able to answer to them, and they have been able to give them some food and some water, which they say should extend the potential
survivability after this disaster took place.
There have been reports of at least several casualties, however, while there also have been some successful rescues, even though we're talking
about very cramped spaces that the people are operating in and that the victims are trapped in.
[14:50:00]
Now, the Associated Press reports that there was cement being laid on the roof of the school at the time of the collapse and that there were not
adequate building permits for the construction that was underway. An Indonesian government minister has called this a wake-up call, according to
local media, saying that schools like this are often built by communities without adequate precautions.
Ivan Watson, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: We will be back after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: And returning to our breaking news, legendary zoologist and conservationist Dr. Jane Goodall has died at the age of 91, the world's
leading expert on chimpanzees. She spent more than six decades studying primates. She gained a global recognition for a tireless advocacy for
animals and the environment.
I want to bring in CNN Correspondent Tom Foreman, who knew Dr. Goodall. And there's something just captivating about Jane Goodall, of course, because
the love that she -- that so many people had for her really was across generations. I met with some friends who were about 16, their kids were
about 16, and just fascinated by Jane Goodall, went to a speech she did. She was a trailblazer, but she really advocated in many ways for kindness.
And I think that speaks to so many people, Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, kind of a remarkable individual. I knew her at National Geographic some years ago, and we did several events
together. I was around her a fair amount to have some good conversations. And I will say this, she was in life exactly as you imagine her to be from
seeing her. Her -- she's a remarkable human being who, in so many ways, was an unlikely person to do this.
She had none of the training to start out with. She was a woman, a girl when she started, when girls were not really involved in any work like
this. And she was thrown out to do this research by Louis Leakey with very little guidance as to how to go about it. And what she came up with was a
completely unique way of studying these creatures.
She observed in them things that we did not know about the -- well, I say the humanity, really that's what it was, among these different primates and
the way they behaved like us. And they ate meat, and they held grudges, and they had kindnesses, and they had culture, and they had all these things
that really changed not just our view of chimps and primates, but really of the animal kingdom, which is what she was after all along.
SOARES: And she started very young. I mean, many of us will know her, of course, her later work, but tell us a bit more about -- Tom, about how she
started. I think she was 20 years of age. How did she get into this to start off with?
[14:55:00]
She was -- she had told everyone from the time she was very young, she said, oh, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to go do this kind of
work. And she was fascinated by books about the wild and by literally like the Tarzan books. And when she met Lewis Leakey, and he hired her as an
assistant, that was the thing that opened the door. And from there, she -- you know, she went to what we now call Tanzania, and she just sort of
charted her own course.
And I will say that in person, you know, she -- you knew you were meeting, in a sense, scientific royalty. You know, this is as high as it gets. And
yet, when she walked into the room, you could understand why she was successful, because she was unpresupposing. She seemed just like somebody
who was simply there to talk about these ideas.
And I will say, every time I was around her, I was struck by the notion that she always seemed like if she had a choice, at that moment, she'd
rather be out in the woods doing more of this work and figuring out more of what the world was like out there. And of course, as you see there, sharing
that message, especially with younger people, who she thinks are so -- thought were so key to helping us understand the natural world and its
importance.
SOARES: And she continued that message, of course, in later years, talking about climate change. She will be hugely missed by all.
FOREMAN: Yes, remarkable person.
SOARES: Indeed, Tom, thank you very much for sharing that. Really appreciate it.
FOREMAN: You're welcome.
SOARES: That does it for us for tonight. Do stay right here. "What We Know" with Max Foster is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
