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Isa Soares Tonight

U.S. Government Shutdown Enters Day 22; Democrats Call on Trump to Get Involved in Talks; Trump Demands DOJ to Pay him $230M; "Day After" Plan for Gaza; A.I. Superintelligence Raises Concerns. Aired 2:00-3p ET

Aired October 22, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, Russia forces power cuts across Ukraine

as it unleashes yet another deadly round of strikes on Kyiv and Kharkiv. My interview with Ukrainian Foreign Minister official coming up. Then the U.S.

carries out another strike on an alleged drug vessel, but for the first time, it's in the Pacific.

We're live in Colombia with the very latest. Plus, the U.S. government enters day 22 of its shutdown with no end in sight as federal workers are

really feeling the strain. We'll have that and much more ahead this hour. But first -- but first, we begin tonight where we started the show last

night in Ukraine because for a second day in a row, Russia has launched a blistering attack on the country's energy infrastructure.

This morning's drone attack hit this kindergarten you're looking at in Kharkiv, that's Ukraine's second largest city. Ukrainian authorities say

strikes across the country killed at least seven people, including a six- month old baby. Homes, schools, hospitals have been plunged into darkness as the strikes forced power cuts.

All this destruction as the U.S. flip-flops on a pathway to peace. Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has described President Trump's

call for Ukraine and Russia to stop at the current frontlines at quote, "good compromise". But the talks appear stalled. U.S. officials say a

summit with Russia won't happen any time soon.

Meantime, European leaders are rallying around Ukraine, President Zelenskyy there, meeting with Sweden's Prime Minister to discuss a fleet of Swedish-

made fighter jets. And in the U.S., NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte is set to meet with President Trump in a few hours. We'll -- of course, we'll

bring you that. For its part, Russia says it's holding planned drills with its nuclear forces as you can see here, supervised by President Vladimir

Putin.

Our Nic Robertson joins me here in the studio for much more. And Nic, let's start off on the diplomacy side, of course, because -- the diplomacy front,

because I think this is where we are seeing a big push once again. It follows, of course, that meeting between President Zelenskyy and President

-- and President Trump.

Well, Zelenskyy came away kind of empty-handed. No Tomahawks, asking to consider to give up some territory. But also this idea of freezing the

frontlines. Talk us through where we are on the diplomacy, first of all, and we'll go to these strikes in just a moment, have been truly

devastating.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Last week, it almost looked as if President Trump was -- had tried a carrot approach with

President Putin. Last week, he appeared to be trying the stick approach by -- at the beginning of the week, threatening to use or threatening to

provide Ukraine with Tomahawk missiles, implying that, that might happen.

By the time President Zelenskyy gets to the White House, of course, President Trump has talked with President Putin. That's no longer the plan.

So, if we look at the big map of Ukraine here, what President Trump was saying would happen would be essentially along the red line here, the red

being what Russia controls.

This frontline all the way along here would be frozen. And that would be the starting point for a ceasefire, and then further negotiations. Now,

what appears to have happened is that President Putin is intent on taking more. Look, if we go back to Donestsk, back in here as well --

SOARES: To these empty parts here --

ROBERTSON: These empty parts here that Russia has -- wants to take, claims are theirs, the implication appears to be that President Putin isn't ready

to talk about a ceasefire and giving up on what he wants to achieve, it appears he still wants to take more territory and appears to think that he

can.

SOARES: Well, clearly playing the long game where we have seen, of course, these strikes, not just today in Kharkiv and in Kyiv, but also, I think it

was earlier this week in Sumy, right? I think we have a bigger picture of some of these areas there. We have seen an intensification, Nic, of some of

these strikes.

ROBERTSON: We really have. Sumy, this area here --

SOARES: Yes --

ROBERTSON: In the north has been hit so hard, so frequently over the last few weeks by drones, by missiles, that the power in much of that northern

region has been off for two weeks.

[14:05:00]

So, people without heating, without electricity left in the darkness, and perhaps that's part of the psychological tactics by Russia. The

psychological tactics by Russia. The psychological tactics also -- I mean, Kharkiv today, that's where the kindergarten was --

SOARES: Yes --

ROBERTSON: Forty eight children. Fortunately, the children --

SOARES: Terrifying --

ROBERTSON: Weren't injured, they were --

SOARES: Yes --

ROBERTSON: Led away. But one person did die in that strike. And you know, over here where Kyiv is in this direction, you had six people killed there.

And you mentioned the woman and the 12-year-old girl and the --

SOARES: Yes --

ROBERTSON: Six-month old baby --

SOARES: Yes --

ROBERTSON: On a high floor in a 17-story building that was hit by these missiles. And Ukraine's problem right now, it can't intercept all the

missiles coming as well as it used to, because there are more of them, hence the trip to Sweden on a fighter --

SOARES: Indeed, and really, the system is overwhelmed. If we go back -- if I'm just going to ask my team to go back to the first map, the main map, I

mean, the air defenses are very much overwhelmed as we see this intensification. So, as we look ahead to the meeting on Thursday in Europe,

I think is in Brussels, and then Friday here in the U.K., what is -- what is Zelenskyy trying to get out of this?

With the U.S. was very much Tomahawks. With Europe, what does he want to see -- to try and at least change the calculus or deter or push back Putin.

ROBERTSON: At one level, he seems to want the Europeans to stand behind him and agree that this compromise that President Trump talked about is the

right compromise --

SOARES: So, this line here --

ROBERTSON: To freeze the frontlines.

SOARES: Right.

ROBERTSON: On the other hand, if we look at what he did today in Sweden, which was -- acquire, begin to acquire fighter jets as many as 100, he

hopes over time to defend the skies and defend the country from these increasing drone attacks. But then he was in Norway afterwards, and the

Prime Minister there said he was going to commit $150 million worth of energy supplies.

So, he is looking for a way to keep people warm, to keep them dry, to keep the lights on in the country. But as well as the physical needs of keeping

Russia out and trying to keep on the diplomatic right side of President Trump, I mean, that's very clear and his European partners have stood

behind him on this until now.

Every time President Trump goes one way or another, the Europeans, and it will be Mark Rutte today in the White House come in behind and say, this is

where we're all at. This is the position, and convince President Trump to continue to support in whatever way he will, Ukraine. And I think that's

the push that will get out of the Europeans, the collective way that they'll spend their money. I mean, look --

SOARES: Yes --

ROBERTSON: What's super interesting about these 100 Gripen fighter jets coming -- potentially coming from Sweden is they're not F-16s from the

United States.

SOARES: Yes --

ROBERTSON: Europe has agreed to spend money to defend Ukraine. But it's not just about buying U.S. weapons, it's about spending it on European

defense manufacturers --

SOARES: Absolutely --

ROBERTSON: Too --

SOARES: Possibility of tourists from Germany, very -- not -- are we still talking about it?

ROBERTSON: It's not impossible. But look -- Ukraine today was able to hit deep inside Russia --

SOARES: Yes --

ROBERTSON: At an energy facility because it was using the long range British Storm Shadow Missiles. There are alternatives to the Tomahawk, a

Tomahawk is a very advanced and capable weapon, but there are other similar weapons that Ukraine can get from its European allies.

SOARES: I'm going to be cheeky and ask you another question. I'm sure my producer will tell me to wrap. But in terms of -- you know, put your

diplomatic hat on, Nic. At what point do you think that Putin would be prepared, if at all, to sit down to negotiate? I mean, clearly, freeze --

wanting these two parts, that probably wouldn't be enough.

He would seek other parts, of course, of the country. But would it be sanctions? Would it be the missiles of the United States, Tomahawks? What

would force his hand here?

ROBERTSON: Collective, an intense pressure from the United States, a big spend from there and from Europe as well. Look, Putin may want these areas

because this is what he's stated as a goal.

SOARES: Yes --

ROBERTSON: But Ukraine's fear is if they give up all these areas, it makes access for a second Russian offensive on Kyiv. And let's not forget, Russia

took this Crimea in 2014. They came back to take more of these areas here. The fear is they would come and take this. And of course, what Putin would

also demand as he demands right now, is what happens in the rest of Europe around here. He would be demanding one of his core issues --

SOARES: Yes --

ROBERTSON: The reasons that this all started, his opinion is because of NATO's positioning. And NATO has only got stronger in these --

SOARES: Yes --

ROBERTSON: Areas. So, he'd be looking to push NATO back and weaken them and we -- yes --

SOARES: As we've seen his Maximalist positions haven't changed, hence why that summit seems to be up for grabs at the moment. Nic, thank you very

much indeed. Well, just a short time ago, I spoke with Heorhii Tykhyl; he's a spokesperson for the Ukrainian Foreign Minister. I began by asking him

about the latest deadly strikes on Ukraine, of course, that Nic and I were just talking about.

[14:10:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HEORHII TYKHYL, SPOKESPERSON, UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTRY: This is absolutely devastating, and we do not want this terror to be normalized,

you know, to become a routine because this is not a routine. This is about human lives. You can see behind me, our capital, Kyiv, and usually, there

would be much more lights behind my back, you know, because it's a capital city and all the streets are lit, but -- because Putin is striking our

energy system so heavily, we need to make some economy on the streets of our capital and other places.

Some people -- some communities lack access to power and water and heating and the temperatures, believe me, here in Autumn, they are dropping. So,

yes, we can see that Putin is trying to use Winter as a weapon. He wants to use cold as a weapon against Ukrainians. He he tried to do this in the

past. We had already three war-time Winters, but now he's trying to do this again.

And that's why we are appealing to all of our partners and asking for additional support, additional air defense capabilities, additional energy

assistance equipment, repair equipment, you know, volumes of gas and other stuff. And you could see, for example, today, President Zelenskyy is

visiting Norway and --

SOARES: Yes --

TYKHYL: Sweden, and you can clearly see the priorities of the things he's discussing. And he agreed in Norway for 150 million euro for additional gas

volumes for Ukraine to survive this Winter season, and also in Sweden, he actually reached an agreement on some additional Gripen aircraft. So very

powerful aircraft to better protect the Ukrainian airspace from these attacks.

So, we are working hard from President to our diplomacy to mobilize this additional support, understanding that Russian terror unfortunately

continues.

SOARES: Yes, and of course, our viewers would know that backdrop behind you Heorhii. Normally it's lit up, right? It tells the story of itself. And

like you clearly said, look, this playbook by Russia is one that we have seen repeatedly, right? Hitting energy infrastructure, leaving Ukrainians

in the dark and in the cold as we head, of course, the colder months.

And I do wonder what the mood is there, because we heard President Zelenskyy saying -- and I'm going to quote him here, that the attacks that

we have seen showed that Putin -- that Russia doesn't feel enough pressure for dragging out the war. I mean, how disappointed, Heorhii, are Ukrainians

that President Trump, one, hasn't provided them with the Tomahawk missiles?

Two, keeps on flip-flopping on Ukraine, and three, talking -- asking Ukraine to make territorial concessions to Russia.

TYKHYL: Look, let's start with the -- with the mood of Ukrainians. Well, you know, our people are very resilient. And of course, they are enduring

this terror and this aggression because they have not much other options. This is a war for existence, a war for survival of the Ukrainian state, for

our freedom.

So, there is no other option. We cannot just -- you know, if -- and if Putin thinks that he can basically bomb Ukraine into concessions, this is a

great mistake of his and shows how little he understands the Ukrainian people and the spirit of the people here. But this does not undermine that

the horror is there, it's daily, the strikes, the attacks and the lack of power in some communities, water and in other things.

So, it's not to undermine this particular case, but you are absolutely right. And our President is saying, very frankly, that this only happens

because Putin does not feel sufficient pressure. He feels that he can continue the war. He can drag his feet. He can -- you know, fool the world

and try to imitate diplomacy, but at the same time, just continue striking and killing Ukrainians and destroying, trying to destroy our country.

It just shows him that he -- shows that he, you know, he thinks he's -- he has this impunity to act, to act forward and drag on the war. But we know

what to do. Ukraine knows what to do. Ukraine knows the recipe, how to end this war. And this is our ultimate goal to end it as soon as possible. And

we understand that if we manage as an international community, to raise the cost of the war for Putin and show him that continuing this war is too

pricey for him --

SOARES: Yes --

TYKHYL: Then we can stop it. Believe me, if he loses his energy revenues, if he loses his economy and the problems which are already there become

even deeper and more systemic, if he doesn't get the oil and gas revenues, if Ukraine gets enough capability to strike back with the force that makes

him stop, believe me, he will be forced to end this war. And this is what we're trying to achieve.

SOARES: Yes --

TYKHYL: We think this is the path forward, path to peace.

SOARES: Indeed, and that is about changing his calculus with pressure. And we're seeing President Zelenskyy, like you said, working the diplomatic

angles, of course, looking for that extra support here in Europe. We saw, of course, of a deal like you were mentioning today with the Swedish Prime

Minister.

They signed a fighter jet deal. I do wonder, though, whether you think what the likelihood do you think of Germany finally releasing the long-range

Taurus missiles.

[14:15:00]

What do you -- what would you like to see from Europe right now as you meet Thursday and as you meet Friday?

TYKHYL: You know, for us, as the Ukrainian diplomats, it's not about betting, I guess, and whether this will happen or not. We're just working

to make this happen, to make these decisions a reality. And I can reaffirm and you know, confirm that we do need those missiles. They are very good

ones. And they would allow us to achieve some of the very important goals.

So, we still require them, and the process is ongoing. We are persuading all of our partners to provide us with all available capabilities because

we need them. And again, for Ukraine, this is not about, you know, just nice names of those missiles on -- or you know, some weapons. It's about

very practical and pragmatic things that we can achieve with them.

For example, with additional capabilities, we can reach the places in Russia where they produce those means of terror, like drones, like missiles

that they use to strike Ukraine. If we can reach them with sufficient capacity, then we can basically degrade Russia's war effort.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: And our thanks to Heorhii here. And we have breaking news to bring you. The U.S. is expanding its drug crackdown by carrying out a strike

against a suspected drug vessel on the Pacific side of South America. Just a short time ago, U.S. Secretary of Defense -- of Secretary of War Pete

Hegseth posted on X saying two narco terrorists were killed in the strike.

I'm just going to read out what he says -- part of what he says. There were two narco terrorists aboard the vessel during the strike, which was

conducted in international waters. Narco terrorists intending to bring poison, he says, to our shores will find no safe harbor anywhere in our

hemisphere, just as al Qaeda waged war on our homeland, these cartels are waging war on our border and our people.

There will be no refuge or forgiveness, only justice. Important to point out, this is the first known strike from the U.S. military in the Pacific

Ocean. But it is the eighth strike that we have seen against narco terrorism -- alleged narco terrorist boats, of course, over the last

several weeks. The latest strike comes as the rift between Colombia and the U.S. appears to be getting deeper.

A quarrel fueled by these U.S. strikes on alleged drug trafficking boats off Venezuela's coast. Colombian President Gustavo Petro claims President

Trump has been misinformed about cocaine smuggling from Colombia to the U.S. via Venezuela, and is calling on Colombians to hold mass

demonstrations on Friday. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUSTAVO PETRO, PRESIDENT, COLOMBIA (through translator): And that's why on Friday, I invite you to join me at 4:00 p.m., because it is together that

we can defend ourselves against a monster like Trump. Either he listens to reason, and Mr. Ambassador, please convey these reasons to him through the

proper channels, because the opportunity to engage in dialogue with arguments must always be maintained or we will end up with a massacre of

the Latin American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Joining me now for more on this from Bogota is Juanita Leon; she's director and founder of Colombian investigative news website "La Silla

Vacia". Juanita, welcome to the show. Let me start off -- I don't know if you have any more information on your end with this breaking news that

we've been reporting just now.

The U.S. has struck another alleged drug-trafficking vessel as we have been saying, this time in the Pacific Ocean, I have seen "New York Times"

reporting that it was off the Colombian coast. That is from the "New York Times". What are you hearing on your end, Juanita?

JUANITA LEON, DIRECTOR & FOUNDER, LA SILLA VACIA: No, we don't have an internal information about this. It's very recent, and this will add up to

the rhetoric that -- Petro is using to call people, to mobilize on Friday in a big manifestation against Trump's attacks, and that he will use

politically for the elections that we are having on Sunday for the left party that is going to choose the candidate for the presidential elections.

SOARES: Yes, and I'm glad you mentioned that, because this is all coming, this war of words is coming, of course, as Colombia has presidential

elections. But I do want to focus, Juanita, if I may, on these kind of escalating war of words between Trump and Petro and the whole thing, of

course, escalated because of the strikes with Trump calling Petro a drug dealer, suspending aid as well to Colombia.

What has been the reaction from inside Colombia? Because this -- you know, Colombia has historically been the most stable ally of the United States.

[14:20:00]

LEON: Yes, there's deterioration in the relationship with the U.S. has decided before this bombing of a -- of vessels in the Caribbean, and really

President Petro since Trump was elected, has been quite vocal against President Trump. He was in the U.N. assembly in New York, outside of the

assembly, you know, calling people to defend Gaza, asking the U.S. Army to disobey Trump if he asked them to fight in Gaza against Palestinians.

And he's been calling names, President Trump. But the latest incident was a defense that President Petro has made, which I think is quite just that

these vessels will not be bombarded without just trial, or at least to have a more accurate -- they are drug dealers if they are really on continental

waters or international waters, because one Colombian was killed in one of those attacks, and maybe two of them.

SOARES: On that last point, Juanita, then, you're sort of seen as quite just. Do the majority, the overwhelming majority of Colombians, do they

support President Petro's position in this war of words with President Trump when it comes to these attacks on these alleged drug boats. What is

their stance? Do we have a sense of polling on where the Colombians stand on this?

LEON: No, we don't have polling because a law was passed that limits or restricts or makes it very difficult to do -- at this -- at this -- at

this point. But I think most people feel that it's unfair to bomb these vessels without a trial. But at the same time, a lot of Colombians feel

that President Petro has been provoking irresponsibly President Trump, and that given the asymmetry of power between Trump and Colombia, President

Petro should use the diplomatic channels --

SOARES: Yes --

LEON: And not his tweets -- to attack President Trump. So, I think he doesn't have much support on that beyond the left-wing militants.

SOARES: Juanita, really appreciate you coming on the show. Juanita Leon, thank you. I do want to stay in the region because Peru has declared a 30-

day state of emergency. President Jose Jeri made the declaration in the capital of Lima and neighboring Callao. President Jeri says it's to battle

rising crime.

It follows last week's protests that left one dead and more than 100 injured. The declaration authorizes the deployment of armed forces to

assist police in maintaining public order. The President was sworn in earlier this month and vowed to make tackling crime a top priority. And

still to come tonight, the U.N.'s top court rebukes Israel over restrictions on lifesaving aid to Gaza during the war.

We'll hear Israel response -- Israel's response, pardon me, after the break. Plus, the Louvre reopens for visitors after this weekend's brazen

robbery. The stolen jewels have been described as priceless, but they're actually worth a hefty sum. We'll tell you how much coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:00]

SOARES: The Louvre Museum in Paris is back open for visitors. This is the first time tourists have been allowed in since the multi-million dollar

jewelry heist on Sunday. The Apollo Gallery, where the theft took place will remain closed, though. Prosecutors estimate the value of the stolen

jewels may be worth $102 million or 88 million euros. Officials say around 100 investigators are involved in the search for the criminals. Our Melissa

Bell has the very latest for you from Paris.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The director of France's Louvre Museum has been defending herself in front of a

Senate committee, explaining that she tendered her resignation in the wake of Sunday morning's dramatic heist. It had been refused, she said, by the

Culture Minister.

Both women are saying the Culture Minister and the director of the Louvre, that the security systems function, defending their record. This in the

face of a great deal of criticism and calls for both their resignation. Been questions, of course, about the security breach itself on Sunday

morning, how robbers could have got in with such rudimentary tools to what should have been some of the best guarded crown jewels in the country.

But there is also a not yet published report that has emerged in parts of the French press by France's highest auditing body. That was critical,

specifically, of what it described as security lapses in the museum between 2019 and '24. The lack, for instance, of CCTV cameras in a number of the

museums rooms.

So, all of these have been pounced upon by the French press. In the meantime, the manhunt continues, as does the hunt for the jewels

themselves. More than a 100 French investigators are working on the case, we understand, and continue to gather clues. A scooter left behind by the

robbers, a glove, a motorcycle helmet and of course, the truck that was used with its mechanical ladder on it, that is being scoured for any

fingerprints.

Any evidence they can find to try and help them track down the robbers. But of course, with every day, every hour that passes, the hopes that, that

will happen grow slimmer. Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: The French Interior Minister says two police officers stayed in nearby jail cell for Nicolas Sarkozy's first night in prison. The former

French President is serving a five-year term for criminal conspiracy. Sarkozy will continue to receive protection in prison as long as necessary,

given his status and what the minister called threats he faces.

Sarkozy's lawyer had insisted his client get no special treatment. And still to come tonight, while the U.S. government shutdown drags on, what

some federal workers are having to do to feed their families. We'll bring you that story. Plus, President Trump says he is due $230, I should say,

million, who he says owes him that money and who ultimately could be on the hook for that huge payout.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:00]

ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Welcome back. With no end in sight, the U.S. government remains at a standstill on day 22, while some federal

workers are standing in food lines. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer is demanding a meeting with President Trump before he leaves on his trip to

Asia on Friday. Trump said publicly he wouldn't meet until after the government reopens. Some Republicans now say it's time for the President to

get involved.

This the real impact meantime of the shutdown's third week. Furloughed workers, you can see they're standing in long lines to get boxes of food.

Though there have been efforts to get money for those working without a paycheck, even that has become a partisan battle. One Democratic U.S.

Senator says that he can't trust President Trump to decide who gets paid.

So, let's get more on this story. Annie Grayer joins us now from Capitol Hill. And, Annie, let's start then with the politics, first of all,

because, of course, as we were mentioning, Senate Democrats today calling, making it clear that it's on the Republicans, and in particular President

Trump, to change strategy, right, and negotiate with them. How likely is that to happen at this point, Annie? What are you hearing?

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, we're just getting the initial rumblings of this from rank-and-file Senate and House Republicans who think

that President Trump could be the one to break this stalemate and disrupt the status quo that we've seen right now, which is no negotiations at all.

But Congressional leadership, Speaker Johnson, Leader Thune, are adamant that that is not the strategy, that's not the playbook. And the president

himself has reiterated that he's willing to negotiate with Democrats only when they first vote to reopen the government. So, that is the stalemate

that we are in right now.

But there is -- there are Republicans who are hoping that that strategy will eventually change, because Democrats are saying that they want to

negotiate directly with President Trump. Their argument is that Congressional Republicans are just going to fall in line with what the

president wants anyway, they may as well just go directly to him. But again, the President rebuffed Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries, who said

that they're going to keep trying.

And I just can't emphasize enough, we're on day 22 of this government shutdown, the second longest in history and counting, and there are no

negotiations. There is no progress. Lawmakers are very much still at square one, saying the same things that they were at the beginning of this

shutdown. So, we are going to continue to watch to see if this calls for Trump to get involved starts to grow at all, but the president really is

deferring to his Congressional leadership here, at least for now.

[14:35:00]

SOARES: And as both sides double down, and we had some footage, I'm going to ask my producer, Anna, to bring it up. We've seen workers, furloughed

workers lining up. Can you speak to the real impact this having?

GRAYER: Absolutely. Federal workers are not getting a paycheck. There are so many federal workers who still have to work and show up every day on the

job, and they're not receiving a paycheck. There's concerns about military troops, benefits for food, any sort of social services that people are

really in desperate need of, and those concerns are only continuing to grow.

There is an effort from Republicans to put a bill on the floor that would pay for some federal workers right now, but Democrats say that that doesn't

go nearly far enough, and they don't trust that the president and his team aren't just going to continue to use this shutdown to fire federal workers,

as we've seen happen so far. So, federal workers are absolutely bearing the brunt of the implications here, but again, there is really just no sign

that this shutdown is going to end anytime soon.

SOARES: Yes, and we're talking about more than a million federal workers. Annie, really appreciate it. Thank you. We're going to stay in the United

States because U.S. President Donald Trump says he could be asking his own Justice Department to pay him $230 million, a tab that would be picked up,

of course, by American taxpayers.

According to a New York Times report, the PRESIDENT feels he's owed that compensation for two federal investigations launched against him while he

was out of office. Potentially, at play here is a major conflict of interest. Those who could sign off on that payout are administration

officials who previously served as defense attorneys for Mr. Trump. One Republican senator had this to say about the president's request. Have a

listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I think it's terrible optics, particularly right now. We're talking about a quarter of a billion dollars transferring,

maybe, to the president when we're in a shutdown posture. So, it's at very best bad timing, but I think it's horrible optics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Bad timing and bad optics. Let's get more. Kevin Liptak joins us from the White House. And, Kevin, just for our viewers around the world,

the president's basically looking to pay himself, right? Let's start off with on what grounds?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Right. And this an administrative process that the president began when he was out of office a

few years ago. It's essentially one stop short of a lawsuit. So, he has gone to the Justice Department and said that he was essentially wronged in

various legal processes for these two investigations that they conducted into him when he was out of office, one related to his ties to Russia and

potential interference in the 2016 election, and the other, which is that matter, related to classified documents that he took with him back to Mar-

a-Lago after he left the White House in 2020.

The process essentially allows claimants to approach the Justice Department to say that they have a monetary claim against them because, in their view,

they feel like they were wronged by the Justice Department's actions, and then essentially allows for a payout. And, you know, the rationale behind

this process is that it essentially would prevent a lawsuit if they were able to settle it before it reaches that stage. Of course, now that Trump

is in the Oval Office and is president himself, it has lent this whole layer of conflict of interest to what the president is trying to do here.

It really is unprecedented in U.S. history for the president to try and go about this.

In addition to the president's attorney general, Pam Bondi, who is obviously a loyalist, the other people who are working in the Justice

Department and who have a purview over this served on his legal team as he was sort of combating all of these legal issues when he was out of office.

Todd Blanche, who's the deputy attorney general, is the president's former personal lawyer. And then the other individual who's an associate attorney

general who would be responsible for approving these potential payouts represented one of Trump's associates in these matters.

And so, you see how even the people who would be at the Justice Department who would be responsible for approving this themselves have various

conflicts when it comes to making this decision. Now, the president said yesterday that if he was rewarded this money he would either donate it to

charity or use it to fund the ballroom that they're building on the other side of the White House. But clearly, this going to be sort of an enormous

issue, I think, as people debate whether the president should use his Justice Department to pay himself for his own perceived legal wrongs.

SOARES: Yes, and people that possibly that he could pressure within the Justice Department, right, to do his -- the bidding for him. And this

money, of course, would come from U.S. taxpayers. We played a little clip there from a Republican, I think, senator, who said this all in bad taste.

How would this be received and what's the likelihood of this actually going ahead in terms of legal -- this clip there from a Republican, I think,

senator, who said this all in bad taste. How would this be received and what's the likelihood of this actually going ahead in terms of legal --

could this turn into another legal battle here?

LIPTAK: Yes, and you're correct that the money would come from taxpayers, which at a moment when the government is shut down, when the president is

laying people off, when all kinds of services are halted, would be enormous political peril for him.

You mentioned the pressure that the president might put on individuals at the Justice Department. I'm not actually sure that that pressure would be

necessary. These people are loyalists, true and true. There's no evidence that they would push back against something that the president clearly

feels as if he's owed. You know, yesterday when he was in the Oval Office, he said, quote, "I was damaged very greatly." Clearly, he thinks that this

something that is his right as someone who he thinks went through some of these what he calls witch hunts and came out on the other end.

And so, you know, I think that this could potentially spark a legal battle, but I don't think that you will find individuals at the Justice Department

who will either push back on the president or recuse themselves. You know, that's something that has happened previously, including in the president's

first term when, for example, his attorney general, then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions, recused himself from an investigation into the president.

The president was furious. He despises recusals because he thinks that puts people in place who won't necessarily rule in his favor.

And so, it's almost difficult to imagine how this won't result in the president being paid, but certainly, we'll have to see how it all ends up.

SOARES: Wow. What a story. My goodness. Kevin, appreciate it. Thank you very much. And still to come tonight, standing next to the U.S. vice

president, the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, say, there's an unbelievable, his words, plan in the works for the day after in Gaza. We'll

tell you what those are.

Then A.I. continues its path to becoming even more super intelligent. And while it sounds good to some, popular public figures' concern over its

threat to humanity is growing louder.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: One after other, top U.S. officials are visiting Israel this week, trying to build momentum, of course, for the fragile ceasefire in Gaza.

Secretary of State Marco Rubio will arrive tomorrow as Vice President J.D. Vance wraps up his effort to keep the truce between Israel and Hamas

intact. Vance met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu today. They said they have big plans for the day after in Gaza, but gave no

details.

[14:45:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: We're just creating an unbelievable day after with a completely new vision of how to have the

civil government, how to have the security there, who could provide that security there? Again, with Israel taking care of overall security always.

And we discussed that. And I think we have some very, very good ideas how to proceed. It's not going to be easy, but I think it's possible.

J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. I mean, we're really creating a peace plan and an infrastructure here where nothing existed even a week and

a day ago. That's going to require a lot of work. It requires a lot of ingenuity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Well, the U.S. is getting some help from Britain, it seems, as it tries to recruit allies to monitor the truce. The U.K. says it sent a small

contingent of military planning officers to a U.S.-led coordination center in southern Israel. Israel returned more bodies in time to Gaza today as

part of the ceasefire deal. The Palestinian health ministry says many bore signs of complete crushing of the skull and chest, accusing Israel of

running over them with military vehicles.

Meantime, the U.N.'s top court is rebuking Israel over its restrictions on aid into Gaza during the war, saying an occupying power may never invoke

security concern to try to justify a blockade of life-saving supplies. Our Jeremy Diamond has more for you from Tel Aviv.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: The United Nations top court has rebuked Israel's efforts to restrict humanitarian aid into Gaza and its

refusal to work with a key U.N. agency. The International Court of Justice, in a ruling issued on Wednesday, says that Israel, as the occupying power

in Gaza, must facilitate humanitarian aid there and is obligated to ensure that the basic needs of the civilian population are met.

And this ruling not only rebukes that weeks-long blockade, total blockade of aid into Gaza that we saw Israel impose earlier this year, but also a

law that Israel passed effectively banning any cooperation with and the operations of UNRWA, that U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees, within

Israeli-controlled territory.

The ICJ, in this ruling, says that Israel must cooperate with the United Nations, including with its agencies, and that UNRWA has not violated its

impartiality. Israel has repeatedly accused UNRWA of harboring a slew of Hamas-affiliated employees, but the top court from the United Nations here,

finding no substantial evidence to substantiate those allegations.

A U.N. investigation had previously found that nine employees, quote, "may have been involved" in the October 7th attacks, but that's out of a total

of some 13,000 UNRWA employees in Gaza. Now, this ruling from the ICJ is non-binding, but it does carry a lot of legal and political weight, and it

could affect how U.N. member states interact with Israel in the future, how they choose to respond to any future attempts by Israel to restrict

humanitarian aid in Gaza, or its work with U.N. agencies.

Israel, for its part, is rejecting this opinion outright, saying that this a political ruling by this top U.N. court, and also making clear that it

has no plans to reverse course on its cooperation with UNRWA. It's -- the Ministry of Foreign Affairs saying in a statement that Israel will not

cooperate with an organization that is, quote, "infested with terror activities," and they insist that Israel is and will continue to uphold all

of its obligations under international law.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: And still to come tonight, celebrities, royalties, scientists, as well as politicians are coming together to raise alarm on threats of A.I.

superintelligence on humanity. We'll have the details for you just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:50:00]

SOARES: So, many public figures like mega celebrities, British royals and even political strategists are calling for a ban on computer super

intelligence. Prince Harry, his wife Meghan Markle, along with singer Kate Bush and politics influencer Steve Bannon, joined computer scientists,

economists and artists who believe artificial intelligence could one day pose a threat to humanity itself. All of this, part of a growing chorus

calling for an A.I. slowdown. And this coming, of course, as Google, Meta and A.I. and others are pouring billions of dollars into new A.I. models

and the data centers, of course, that actually power them.

Let's get more on all this. Our business and economics reporter Anna Cooban, joins me now. Anna, just, I mean, we've had this discussion many,

many times, right, of fears they're going to take over our jobs, but we're talking about 7,000 signatories who want a ban. What exactly do they want

to see? What are they calling for, first of all?

ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER: They're calling for a ban, a halt on the development of so-called super A.I., superintelligence.

Now, what this a technology that doesn't yet exist, but it is A.I. plus, plus, plus. It is A.I. as we currently know it, but essentially able to

complete any cognitive task far, far better than any human could. So, it sounds very hypothetical, very theoretical, but this something that clearly

lots of people across the tech sector as well are very, very fearful of.

Now, they say they want this to be developed only if two conditions are met. The first being that there is public acceptance, and we know that

there's a poll that came out recently from the Future of Life Institute, a non-profit, which showed that only 5 percent of Americans are happy with

the status quo in the U.S., which is essentially unfettered A.I. development. And then, lastly, they want to see that there is scientific

consensus that these systems can actually be built in a controllable way.

SOARES: So -- and you've got that number. We've also got this number from Gen Z adults, among Gen Z adults, 53 percent feel anxious just about A.I.

We're not even talking here about the superintelligence part of it. But -- so, who is this directed at? Because I know, you know, we were talking

about the Google, OpenAI, Meta platforms, they're all competing on this front.

So, when they say they're calling for a ban, who is this directed? Is this governments? Is this companies? What do they want to be done, the next

steps, is my question?

COOBAN: I think all of the above.

SOARES: OK.

COOBAN: So, governments have a role to set regulation. And we saw in the E.U. last year, there was a landmark law which came out which put, you

know, today quite stringent guardrails around the development of A.I. For example, you can't be an E.U. company and use A.I. in biometric systems

that test to, you know, predict somebody's racial group or somebody's sexual orientation. That's now outlawed.

In the U.S., the situation is more of a patchwork. There are some targeted laws state by state, but nothing that's at the federal blanket level that a

lot of people are calling for.

SOARES: And I saw, because Prince Harry is part of one of the signatories, he said in a personal note that, quote, "The future of A.I. should serve

humanity, not replace it. I believe the true test of progress will be not how fast we move, but how wisely we steer. There is no second chance."

So, bring the business element to this. When we're talking about Google, OpenAI and Meta platforms as they're racing kind of to build better,

stronger artificial intelligence, what would they -- how would they respond to this, you think?

COOBAN: Well, it's interesting that the two leaders of two of the most prominent A.I. companies right now, you've got Sam Altman, who heads

OpenAI, maker of ChatGPT, and then you've got Elon Musk, who heads up xAI. They have both been on the record being quite strident in their views

around the existential threat that A.I. poses.

[14:55:00]

You actually had Sam Altman in a blog post from 2015 say, and I quote, "that this super A.I. intelligence poses the greatest threat to the

continued existence of humanity." You've seen Elon Musk earlier this year say there's an up to 20 percent chance that this sort of A.I. will go bad

or go rogue. So, these are -- but these are also people that are trying to make a profit, hopefully, from these systems. So, it's not just about the

tension there.

SOARES: Anna, thank you very much indeed. And finally, a dream come true, that's the reaction from this year's winner of the International Chopin

Piano Competition, Eric Lu. The American pianist secured the prestigious prize of what's been dubbed the Olympics for classical music with his

rendition of the Polish musician Polonaise Fantaisie. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: This year marked 100 years since the contest's inception. The three-week competition takes place in Warsaw and happens just once every

five years. Get super A.I. to do that. I want to see that.

That does it for us for tonight. From myself and Anna, thanks very much for your company. "What We Know" with Max Foster is up next. I'll see you

tomorrow.

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[15:00:00]

END