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Isa Soares Tonight

A Judge Throws Out the Cases Against James Comey And Letitia James For Processed Reasons; Trump Sets Thanksgiving Deadline For Ukraine On Peace Plan; Trump Administration Formally Designates Nicolas Maduro A Member Of A Terrorist Organization; U.S Designates Maduro As Part Of "Terrorist" Cartel; Trump Admin. Weighs Military Operations In Venezuela; Pentagon Threatens Democratic Senator; John Kerry On Trump's "Punishable By Death" Comments. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired November 24, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

MAX FOSTER, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, I'm Max Foster in for Isa Soares. Tonight, cases dismissed. A judge throws out

the cases against James Comey and Letitia James for processed reasons. We'll explain and ask if they're in the clear. Plus, uncertainty over a

Ukrainian peace plan.

The U.S. touts progress while the Kremlin calls an EU counter-proposal, unconstructive. We'll speak with Spain's Foreign Minister. And Trump ramps

up the pressure on Venezuela, formally designating President Nicolas Maduro as a member of a terrorist organization. We're live in Caracas this hour.

The breaking news tonight, though, U.S. federal judge -- a U.S. federal judge has now dismissed the indictments against former FBI Director James

Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James. Both cases have been tossed out after the judge found the appointment of interim U.S. attorney

Lindsay Halligan invalid.

The judge said all actions from Halligan, including the indictments against Comey and James were, in her words, unlawful exercises of executive power.

Trump hand-picked Halligan for the role amid increasing pressure to bring criminal cases against his political enemies. Kara Scannell has the latest

for us from New York. So, is this a problem with the case, Kara, or with the person who brought it?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good to be with you, Max. This has to do with the process by which Lindsey Halligan was appointed U.S. attorney for

the Eastern District of Virginia. She oversaw both the case against James Comey and the case against the New York Attorney General, Letitia James.

And in both instances, she was the only prosecutor to present evidence to the grand juries, who each separately returned indictments against James

Comey and Letitia James. And the issue here, the judge said that this appointment was invalid because it violated the law about how U.S.

attorneys are appointed.

The President had nominated a U.S. attorney for that position, he was put in place, he then resigned -- well, he was then appointed by the district

court judges to fill that role after this temporary period expired. And then he resigned amid pressure to bring these two cases when he did not

believe that there was sufficient evidence.

It was at that point that Trump then posted on Truth Social, saying that he thought -- to Pam Bondi; the Attorney General, that she needed to bring

these cases. And it was just a matter of days later that Lindsey Halligan, who has never been a prosecutor, who worked for Donald Trump in the White

House and has been a lawyer on insurance matters, was then put into that role.

So, the judge saying that process is unlawful. After that initial appointment of 120 days, the responsibility to pick the U.S. attorney if

Congress does not confirm someone falls to the district court judges, and he is now -- or excuse me, this judge now is putting that back to the

judges to now appoint someone in this role.

But this leaves a lot of uncertainty about what happens with these cases. Both cases were dismissed without prejudice, meaning they could be brought

again. Interestingly, the James Comey case was brought just days before the Statute of Limitations ran out. So, it's not clear if there is a window

here for the Justice Department to try to seek an indictment or if this case expired with a Statute of Limitations, very much uncertain at this

point.

The case against Letitia James, however, was also dismissed without prejudice, meaning that it could be brought again if a different grand jury

did think that there was enough evidence to support charges. So, we will wait to see how that plays out, and if the Justice Department does seek to

try to get a grand jury to return an indictment against her.

I mean, her statement today acknowledged that to some extent, her lawyer, Abbe Lowell, said "this case was not about justice or the law, it was about

targeting Attorney General James for what she stood for and who she challenged. We will continue to challenge any further politically-motivated

charges through every lawful means available." We've not yet heard from former FBI Director James Comey or his attorneys. So, we do expect a

statement from them today. Max?

FOSTER: Am I oversimplifying it to say that if they replace Halligan, they could have another shot at this?

SCANNELL: With respect to the New York Attorney General's case, that definitely is an option. It is really up in the air about the case against

James Comey, because the instance that he was charged with lying to Congress occurred five years ago. That's the Statute of Limitations, and

that expired in September.

[14:05:00]

So, is there a situation where the Justice Department could argue, well, the indictment was found to be invalid. It was brought just before the

Statute of Limitations, and so, can we try to cure that? Or will a judge say it doesn't matter, the clock ran out, and now you can't bring that

case. That is an open question at this point. We've reached out to the Justice Department and have not heard back.

FOSTER: OK, Kara, thank you so much. Now, the Kremlin is pushing back against a European counter-proposal to Donald Trump's peace plan in

Ukraine, saying, quote, "it's completely unconstructive and doesn't suit us". That remark comes after U.S. and Ukrainian officials meet in Geneva

over the weekend to discuss the 28-point proposal, widely seen as largely favoring Russia.

Under that plan, Kyiv would have to agree to terms it's long objected to, including ceding its territory, putting a cap on its military, and giving

up its NATO ambitions. But after the talks on Sunday, both Ukraine and the U.S. struck an upbeat tone about the revised proposal. President Volodymyr

Zelenskyy says he was preparing to read a full report on the negotiations, and then decide which steps to take.

The Secretary of State indicated on Thursday, the Thursday deadline rather, given to Kyiv by the White House, may actually be flexible now. Meanwhile,

here's what the EU's Foreign Policy chief had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAJA KALLAS, CHIEF, EU FOREIGN POLICY: We welcome all the efforts to achieve this peace, but we shouldn't take the focus off who doesn't want

the peace, which is Russia.

I mean, we haven't heard of Russia making any concessions or any concessions to be asked from Russia, because, you know, we should -- this

should be discussing on how Russia would not invade again, and how Russia would stop this war and not what Ukraine could or should give up, because

there's one victim and one aggressor in this war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: CNN's Matthew Chance has more on the new counterproposal. That's pretty short on specifics right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (on camera): In terms of the latest from Geneva, where I'm speaking to you now, those

negotiations have come to an end, all the various delegations have left. But from everything we've heard from the Americans, from the Europeans and

from the Ukrainians themselves, they're very positive about the idea that these negotiations have taken place.

They're saying they're very constructive. They're saying that, you know, progress was made. But what they're not telling us are any details about

what kind of progress, about what specifically Ukraine has agreed to, or what specifically has been put into this deal to make it more acceptable to

the Ukrainians.

But obviously, there are big issues that have to be addressed, issues about, for instance, territory, should Ukraine surrender as Russia demands

more of its territory, even territory that hasn't been captured yet by the Russians. The caps on the Ukrainian military, which under the current

proposals would be limited. Is that acceptable or would it allow a further invasion in the future because Ukraine wasn't adequately defended?

And just the general kind of state of the country in the future once the war is over. These are all huge issues which are being talked about, but

it's not clear to what extent they've been addressed if they have been addressed in this latest new version of the peace plan, then the question

becomes, would Russia accept that new plan?

And so, it's not just a question of making Ukraine happy and making the Europeans happy, it's a question of would the Russians accept any new

proposals that stop short of its -- you know, full objectives and full demands in this conflict?

So far, they've refused to compromise at all. And you know, there's really no suggestion that we've had from Moscow that it would be any different

this time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Matthew Chance reporting. Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Albares joins us now from Madrid. Thank you so much for joining us. I

realize a lot of this counter-proposal is under discussion, but are there any firm points of consensus you can confirm to us, tonight?

JOSE MANUEL ALBARES, FOREIGN MINISTER, SPAIN: On the ongoing process, I will not go into any detail, but certainly, I will express what the Spanish

view, and I would say the European view. We want peace, and we acknowledge all the efforts, and we are going to seize every genuine opportunity to

bring peace, we acknowledge President Trump's will for peace.

We want, though, a just and lasting peace, not just a parenthesis between two wars, and a just peace is a word that respect and recognize Ukrainian

sovereignty, respects the territorial integrity.

[14:10:00]

And we have one thing that is very clear, and we are very satisfied in that sense, that the role of Europe on its own security, especially when it

comes to decisions within European Union and NATO, is being as well acknowledged. So, we want peace. We want to follow this process. But for

me, the first thing would be an immediate and unconditional ceasefire. The second one would be to recognize that Ukraine's sovereignty and European

security are interlinked.

FOSTER: So, when you talk about sovereignty, does that mean you absolutely won't agree to allow Russia to keep any of that original Ukrainian land

that they were in complete control of?

ALBARES: Ukraine is a sovereign country that has a democratically elected government. The government of President Zelenskyy. They are the only ones

that are entitled to talk about things that are very basic and fundamental principles of international law and world order, such as territorial

integrity.

I think that what we are discussing in Ukraine, it affects primarily and directly the Ukrainians, their sovereignty, their territorial integrity.

But as well, the Europe and the world that we will see in the future. If a war of aggression is successful, if the aggressor is rewarded, tomorrow's

world will be less safe. So, yes, we stick to the principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity.

FOSTER: So, if we look at the other two main points that Russia has been long seeking, one of them is the idea that Ukraine would never be allowed

to join NATO. Where do you stand on that? And what about the idea of limiting the size of the Ukrainian military?

ALBARES: For me, it's very clear that anything that is related to who is going to join NATO, European Union, is to us, to the members of states to

decide. And for us, it wouldn't be acceptable that a third party outside NATO or European Union tell us or decide who can go in or not. That's up to

us to decide.

And a sovereign country is a country that can also apply if they want for any organization after the decision, if they join or not, it's to the -- to

the members. So, for me, that's a very clear. And I would say it's strange that when there is a war of aggression, a decision would be that these --

the one that has received the aggression that has to reduce its military.

Today, the real security guarantee for the civilians in Ukraine that are being killed every day, drones are falling over Ukraine every day. It's

their army. But let's focus on ceasefire and conditional ceasefire, and let's follow this process about peace.

FOSTER: Well, it strikes me that the three elements of the U.S. proposal, one, limiting the size of the military, one, Ukraine not joining NATO, and

the other one not giving up any land. They've all been flatly, this isn't so much a counterproposal from Europe. This is just flatly refusing the

U.S. proposal.

ALBARES: We acknowledge the effort of President Trump for peace, and we share exactly the same objective for peace, genuine peace as Ukraine and

the government of President Zelenskyy do. So, We all join forces towards that. We just want to make sure that the final outcome is a just peace, and

just the war cannot end up with an unjust peace.

And I would like to hear from Russia, Russia hasn't said anything about, for instance, an unconditional ceasefire, a very good first step towards

genuine peace.

FOSTER: Just on one thought about European consensus. You're going to need European consensus, aren't you? To go back to Donald Trump with what you've

agreed. And you know, that's always very difficult to get within Europe. Do you feel you've got more consensus on this issue and you will be able to

get to a quick consensus, if I can call it that, by the end of the week?

ALBARES: So far, we have all through this four years of war, we have had that consensus, and we have been backing Ukraine, and today, we are the

largest supporter of Ukraine in military equipment or in economic aid.

[14:15:00]

And I'm sure that the will to have peace is something in which it's very easy for us to get together in Europe, around a just peace, around

guaranteeing European security and around making sure that only the voice of Europe has a decision on what European Union membership, NATO, European

security is about.

It's about us the allies, Europe, together with the United States about -- in European Union, it's about us, about Europeans. On that, it's very easy

to get a consensus.

FOSTER: Donald Trump has been very critical of Spain, hasn't it -- hasn't he? He even suggesting that Spain should be thrown out of NATO because you

don't contribute enough. I wonder what your response was to that and how he might respond to how you're dealing with this situation as well.

ALBARES: We are a very reliable ally. We are right now at the highest level of our troops engaged in the eastern front, almost 3,000 soldiers, and we

are assuming the air policing force in the Baltics. We are present with ships, with airplanes, with soldiers. So, it's very clear that the -- Spain

is absolutely fundamental and reliable ally in Europe, including the eastern front.

And certainly, we are going to meet our capacity, the capacities that are being demanded by NATO. When we first got to government, we had the defense

expenditure in one of the lowest terms ever in a Spanish history, 0.9. Today, we are already in 2 percent. So, I think that our reliability as

allies in NATO is out of question.

And we have always said it, United States is the natural ally of both Spain and Europe. What we do both in trade and in security, in the Trans-Atlantic

bond is something that we will always foster.

FOSTER: Minister Jose Manuel Albares, really appreciate your time on what I know is a very busy week. And, really appreciate you coming out to explain

all of that to us. Really appreciate you, thank you.

ALBARES: Thank you.

FOSTER: Now, on Friday, my colleague and anchor of this show, Isa Soares, sat down with a CNN Portugal event or at one with the former U.S. Secretary

of State, John Kerry, to get his take on the U.S. peace proposal. Their conversation came before the talks this weekend and with EU leaders.

However, Secretary Kerry gave his reaction to the U.S. plan and some of the specific detail within it. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR: Clause 14 I think of clause 10, you will probably know this better, Secretary Kerry, talked about the United States getting

something like 50 percent compensation from the funds that they would put in -- I mean, that -- into Ukraine, from the frozen -- Russian frozen

funds. Quite honestly, that made people's stomachs churn. How would you react to that? Is that American values?

JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: No, I churn.

(LAUGHTER)

SOARES: Did you churn?

KERRY: Well, it appears as if every transaction requires some compensation. And much of it, or some of it going to this president and his family. So,

there are serious questions about -- now, this particular case, what I read is directed towards the United States, and it's directed in a way that

could be beneficial.

I wouldn't tie that publicly in the first days to a tie. But what I'll just say to you very simply is this, treat it as a beginning --

SOARES: Yes --

KERRY: Wish that it had been done more privately so you could begin to build up and build a seriousness of undercurrent of support. It would have

been great to have Europe standing up with the United States. It would be great not to issue a Thanksgiving Day ultimatum. It would be great to have

taken the time to build the support.

And I think it's very difficult to say to President Zelenskyy, by Thursday, you have to agree or not agree to this. There seems to be a Putinesque

component to that --

SOARES: Well, it does sound like many of Putin's talking points in those plans.

KERRY: You've got to start somewhere.

SOARES: I hear you --

KERRY: I just said -- I said earlier, folks, it is not clear to me that he wants peace. And if you're starting point is in a place where that is

seriously in question, it's very difficult to just put out in public something that isn't going to be tilted --

[14:20:00]

SOARES: So, on that point, if you say he doesn't want peace, which is very much what I heard from our correspondent who was in Moscow in the last few

days inside the Kremlin, has the relationship with the Kremlin. He said to me exactly the same thing. They do not want peace. They want to continue

fighting this war. Then how do you change Putin's calculus? Can you change his calculus?

KERRY: We have to do exactly -- we have to do exactly what President Biden said, as much as it takes --

SOARES: As long as it takes --

KERRY: For as long as it takes. And you cannot leave Ukrainians desperately struggling to get basic kinds of supplies they need to guarantee that they

don't lose what they have fought for so valiantly. And I think, to not -- to not fill that gap is to invite a longer conflict and to leave questions

about our seriousness.

I think you have to be tough. I'm serious. I'm not a pacifist. Yes, I fought in a war. A war that was a terrible war and never should have had to

happen, and I opposed it when I came back from Vietnam. So, I'm not sitting here and saying, oh, everything is bad, whatever. I'll defend my country if

it was really threatened tomorrow.

SOARES: Yes --

KERRY: But that's not what we're dealing with.

SOARES: Yes --

KERRY: And I think we have to understand the peace of the world is hard fought for. You have to fight through these things, and sometimes you have

to be on the side of the right n a bigger way that requires you to take steps that might run risks, but you take them. Zelenskyy cannot be begging

for materials on a weekly basis.

He cannot be left -- those soldiers in those -- in those bunkers --

SOARES: Yes --

KERRY: On the frontlines, they can't be left there wondering if they'll have the weapon or the -- or the ammunition they need the next day. Nothing

could be more demoralizing, more terrible. And I am in awe of the courage of those who have gone to war, knowing the chances of coming back are not

great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: John Kerry speaking there to Isa. Now, a new bill could help strengthen the German military, but it may eventually rely on conscription

if there aren't enough volunteers. The drive follows the German chancellor's pledge to build Europe's strongest army in the face of a

perceived threat from Russia and shifts in European or in U.S. foreign policy, rather.

The government hopes to boost numbers to 260,000 soldiers, up from 180,000 by 2035. The initial drive will give greater pay incentives to those who

volunteer. If quotas aren't met, the government will have the option for mandatory call-ups.

A nightmare for parents unfolding in Nigeria. There's been a resurgence of kidnapping school girls there and boys, in fact, details coming up. Plus,

U.S. President Donald Trump ratchets up the pressure on Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. What designating Maduro as part of a terrorist

organization could mean for the U.S. military operations next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:00]

FOSTER: Fear and anger are growing across Nigeria. On Friday, armed bandits kidnapped more than 300 children along with dozens of teachers from a

private Catholic school. Since then, officials say 50 students managed to escape their captors and return home. As CNN's Larry Madowo reports, it's

the latest in a wave of attacks targeting vulnerable civilians.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Anxious parents scramble to pick up their children from a boarding school in Nigeria. The nightmare

scenario of armed gangs kidnapping students has once again set the country on edge. This school in Kaduna state told parents the school was closing

because of unspecified security threats.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have to let children go for their safety. Their life is important than their education as far as now is concerned. So, I

think it's the best.

MADOWO: Meanwhile, a mass abduction from a Catholic school in the neighboring Nigerian state of Niger is terrifying parents. More than 300

children and 12 teachers were kidnapped on Friday, though dozens have since escaped, according to the Christian Association of Nigeria. All schools in

the state of Niger have been closed. And people across the country are demanding that the government provide more security at schools and

churches.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think anybody feels safe what is happening in Nigeria presently, because the kidnapping, the bandits everywhere, the

killing, everybody is so scared, even to sleep. If you are sleeping now, I don't think -- I don't think people are sleeping with their eyes closed.

MADOWO: So far, no group has claimed responsibility for the abductions, and authorities say tactical squads and local hunters are looking for the

children.

GOV. MOHAMMED UMARU BAGO, NIGER STATE, NIGERIA: It's the time for blame game, our mission today is to see how we can rescue these children and all

those that have been kidnapped in that incident.

MADOWO: But there is a growing fear and anger across Nigeria about security concerns, especially after several brazen attacks in the past week. In

western Nigeria's Kwara State, gunmen raided a church service, killing at least two people. Dozens of worshipers were kidnapped, but have since been

freed, and 25 female students were taken after armed men stormed a government boarding school in the northwestern Kebbi State.

(CROWD CHANTING)

CROWD: Bring back our girls.

MADOWO: The violence once again putting Nigeria in the international spotlight. Just over a decade ago, there was a global outcry after 276

girls from a school in Chibok were kidnapped by the terror group Boko Haram.

Many of those girls never returned home. U.S. President Donald Trump has expressed outrage over the alleged persecution of Christians in Nigeria,

and has even threatened military action to protect Christians from Islamist insurgents, though radical groups in the area attacked both Christians and

Muslims.

ROBERT FRANCIS PREVOST, POPE, ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

MADOWO: Pope Leo also weighing in on Sunday, saying he is saddened by the incidents and appealed for the immediate release of the captives. Larry

Madowo, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Rescue and recovery efforts are underway in central Vietnam after torrential rains and flooding devastated the region. Parts of the area were

drenched by rainfall that exceeded 190 centimeters or close to 75 inches over the past week. According to officials, 91 people are dead and 11

others missing.

More than 235,000 houses were flooded and tens of thousands of hectares of crops were damaged. Still to come tonight, the U.S. officially designates

Venezuelan President Maduro as part of a foreign terrorist organization. We'll take a closer look at what the Cartel de los Soles is.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:32:37]

FOSTER: The Trump administration expanding its authority to take action in Venezuela. The U.S. has officially designated Venezuelan president Nicolas

Maduro and his government allies as members of a foreign terrorist organization.

The designation of Cartel de los Soles is as a foreign terrorist organization hands President Donald Trump the power to impose fresh

sanctions targeting Maduro's assets, however it doesn't explicitly allow the use of lethal force according to legal experts. This latest escalation

comes as the U.S. military has amassed warships including USS Gerald Ford and some 15,000 troops in the waters around Latin America.

Among Americans a majority are against U.S. involvement in the region according to a CBS News/YouGov poll released on Sunday 70 percent of

Americans oppose the U.S. taking military action in Venezuela compared with 30 percent who favor action. In addition, 76 percent of those surveyed said

the Trump administration has not exactly explained the U.S. position on military action in Venezuela. Officially the Trump administration says it's

working to cut down on illegal flows of migration and drugs but regime change is a possible side effect of those efforts of course.

Former U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry tells CNN's Isa Soares Venezuelan people should have an opportunity for change.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Maduro is the thug he has been called. Maduro has facilitated drug trafficking, he's crushed democracy, he

crushes his opponents and I don't see anything particularly redeeming if anything redeeming at all in his presence.

Now, what do we do about it? Well, we've learned I would have thought we had learned through history particularly when the United States, you know,

doesn't reach out and sort of exhaust diplomatic effort. It's very hard to build support. In the wake of Iraq, which was one of the greatest foreign

policy mistakes in all of our history, in the wake of that we have to understand the importance of building trust, of having credibility and what

you're saying, what's your casus belli, what is your rationale for going to war? Well maybe you get there after the neighbors have with you exhausted

the efforts to have them accountable to the human rights they're abusing, to the other things they're doing.

[14:35:00]

And I'm not suggesting you turn the other cheek and you don't have accountability.

SOARES: Should he be allowed a plane ticket out with any of the consequences of human rights accusations he's faced? Should he be allowed

to get on a plane and leave the country?

KERRY: You know, one would hope. I'm not going to get into what the transition ought to look like and how, but you need a change.

SOARES: Right.

KERRY: And the Venezuelan people ought to be given the fair and real opportunity that they already exercised. They won that fight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Stefano Pozzebon joins us live from Caracas Venezuela. I don't know what your understanding is, Stefano, of this new designation that the

Americas have imposed on Maduro and this group but does it, you know, precede military action do you think or we're just going to see sanctions?

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think, Max, that that is a potential move that could potentially remove some checks from the White House looking

to exert some military action. We understand especially speaking with our colleagues up in Washington, D.C. that the White House hasn't made that

final decision yet, that they are opening up to that possibility, of course, the military has been tasked with giving the president as many

options as possible and that's why we're seeing this military buildup in the Caribbean, but that the president himself, Donald Trump, has not made a

final decision on whether to strike within Venezuelan territory and also most crucially what to do with a strike within Venezuelan territory if

going after drug traffickers and drug trafficking facilities or if going after Maduro himself personally.

So, far the Venezuelan government has rejected any of these accusations. They say that this is just a campaign and this is for example what the vice

president of Venezuela, Delcy Rodriguez, told us about an hour ago. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DELCY RODRIGUEZ, VENEZUELAN VICE PRESIDENT (through translator): Venezuela is neither the producer nor the trafficker of drugs. No. This has been

stated in all the United Nations reports for 27 years from the United Nations Office on Drugs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POZZEBON: It's fair to say that Delcy has a point there, the vice president, Delcy Rodriguez, has a point in saying that, well, according to

several reports from the United Nations Office on Drug and Crime only 8 percent of the drugs that enter into Venezuela into the United States is

actually trafficked out of Venezuela and none of it is actually produced here. The bulk of the production we know in narcotics comes from

neighboring Colombia or further south in the Andes such as Peru and Bolivia.

I think it's telling that we have heard the vice president speaking about this. I was expecting the government to sort of like don't address this new

designation, pretend that it didn't exist because over the last few days and weeks, Max, here in Caracas the feeling has been that the government

and Maduro himself personally has been trying to give at least the feeling of normalcy, the feeling that nothing is changing for regular Venezuelans

that is still very much in charge and controlling every aspect of their daily life, and that's why I was imagining that the government would not

make an address, would not react to those positions from the White House just to pretend and wait for those issues to sort of go away and scatter

them in the background.

Of course, nothing is actually normal here in Venezuela these days. There were several international airlines that cancelled their flights between

Saturday and Sunday and this morning too, Max, because they have received notice from the United States federal aviation regulators that there could

be some unexpected activities above the Venezuelan skies and this is also a country where the economy is deep and deeper in dire straits as these

rising tides continue so the government is trying to put up a face, it's trying to put up with the pressure and saying that the situation is normal.

Frankly, it doesn't feel like that from Caracas, Max.

FOSTER: No. Stefano, appreciate it as ever. Joining us now Geoff Ramsey, he's a non-resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council and an expert on

U.S. policy towards Venezuela. Thank you for joining us. I wonder if first of all you could tell us about this cartel that the Americans are

designating as this terrorist organization, the Cartel de los Soles. What is it exactly?

GEOFF RAMSEY, NON-RESIDENT SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: Sure, well the Cartel de los Soles actually started out as a kind of journalistic

shorthand. It's a term that was coined in the 1990s to refer to military involvement in drug trafficking in Venezuela.

In recent years, the U.S. has actually indicted Maduro and other leaders in the ruling party and alleged that they're part of this cartel. But, you

know, most experts agree that this is not exactly a cartel in the traditional sense, it's not hierarchical.

[14:40:00]

You know, military involvement in drug trafficking in Venezuela is a reality but it's more through loose networks rather than any kind of

centralized structure.

FOSTER: So, where does Maduro sit in it do you know?

RAMSEY: Well, you know, Maduro has been indicted by the U.S. Department of Justice. He's accused of taking part in a narco-terrorist conspiracy dating

back to collusion with Colombian guerrillas in the mid-2000s. That indictment came out five years ago in 2020.

I think the question here is exactly what the U.S. hopes to achieve with the designation of this group as a foreign terrorist organization, because

as we've just heard there's a number of different ways that this policy could evolve in the days ahead.

FOSTER: Well, the -- there are, you know, elements of the White House, the Trump administration saying it does allow military action within the

country but is that your understanding?

RAMSEY: So, you know I think the point of this is to provide the White House with options. I think, you know, this is the second organization

that's been designated as a foreign terrorist organization, that the U.S. has said is led by Nicolas Maduro. So, I think the the White House is

interested in gathering a broader legal basis for any kind of potential military action. But so far, the president hasn't made that decision and at

the same time as he's talked about military action in the same breath he's mentioned that he's interested in negotiations and that he plans, at some

point, to speak with Nicolas Maduro himself.

FOSTER: And Maduro apparently is very keen to speak to him as well. I think he's got that history, hasn't he? It's good for his optics he's got direct

access to the White House but what sort of conversation is that going to be? Because it's pretty clear that Trump wants to dethrone him effectively.

RAMSEY: Well, you know, I would expect negotiations to involve serious conversations around Venezuela's oil wealth. It's the country with the

largest oil reserves in the planet. I'd expect some negotiations around security issues. Obviously, the president is interested in addressing

immigration. There's 8 million Venezuelans that have fled the country in recent years. But above all, you know, my sincere hope is that any kind of

negotiations with Maduro focus on the political crisis and the need for some kind of a democratic transition.

FOSTER: We showed some polling saying most Americans certainly don't want America to get involved in another war in that region. You know Donald

Trump's very you know in touch with the zeitgeist certainly amongst his base, isn't he? Do you think he is just posturing with this talk of

military action or do you think that he's actually serious about it?

RAMSEY: Well, you know, I think President Trump has really made clear that pressure and negotiations can go hand in hand. And in fact, this is a

president that really seeks to gain as much leverage as possible going into any kind of negotiations. We saw this with Iran. We're seeing it with

Russia. I mean, President Trump I think clearly sees pressure as a way of gaining leverage. And I think that, you know, this military deployment

doesn't necessarily mean that at some point we won't see the White House engaging in talks with Maduro.

FOSTER: OK. Geoff Ramsey, really appreciate it. We'll see what happens. Thank you.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

FOSTER: Still to come tonight, the Pentagon threatens to court-martial a sitting member of Congress after he and other Democratic lawmakers urged

U.S. troops not to obey unlawful orders.

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[14:45:00]

FOSTER: Just an update for you about the federal judge that's dismissed the indictments against the former FBI director James Comey and the New York

attorney general Leticia James. So, we've had a comment from the White House on this, which wanted to know we're going -- they're going to take

it. They're saying this will not be the final word on this matter. "The facts of the indictments against Comey and James have not changed, and this

will not be the final word on the matter," I'm quoting there the White House spokesperson Abigail Jackson. A White House official deferred to the

Department of Justice for specific questions and next steps, which, of course, we're following up.

But now, we're going to go to a major new development in the fallout from a video by six Democratic lawmakers urging U.S. troops to disobey any

unlawful orders. The Pentagon is threatening to recall one of those lawmakers, Senator Mark Kelly, back into active military service so he

could be prosecuted by court martial. It says it's received serious allegations of misconduct against the retired Navy captain without giving

any detail.

President Donald Trump, who did not serve in the military, accused Kelly and the other lawmakers of sedition last week, suggesting they'll be

executed. He backtracked from that, but said they were in serious trouble. Here's a brief reminder of the extraordinary warnings in that video. You'll

see Senator Kelly first here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Our laws are clear, you can refuse illegal orders.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can refuse illegal orders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You must refuse illegal orders.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know this is hard.

KELLY: And that it's a difficult time to be a public servant.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But whether you're serving in the CIA --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- in the Army --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- or Navy --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- the Air Force --

KELLY: -- your vigilance is critical.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Well, just a short while ago, Kelly responded to the Pentagon's new threat, saying he'll not be intimidated. Let's get more from CNN's Natasha

Bertrand in Washington. I mean, take us through this, Natasha. I mean, can he be brought back in the military for this process to start?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: He absolutely can be. And he is the only one of those six lawmakers in that video who can be

recalled to active duty because he is retired from the military. And it's an interesting distinction. The other veterans who appeared in that video

are not technically retired. They separated from the military, but they did not have the amount of military experience necessary to actually formally

retire and collect a pension.

Mark Kelly does collect a pension. He is formally retired. So, he can technically be recalled back to active duty by the U.S. military. And he is

subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which is what the Pentagon is now threatening to prosecute him under, saying that he could be court-

martialed if and when he is recalled back to active duty.

So, this is a very significant development. He is the only one out of these six, as I said, that is subject to this. And Secretary of Defense Pete

Hegseth made it very clear that the reason why he is being threatened with this is because of that video he made with the other lawmakers.

Now, as you said, Senator Kelly, he did respond in a lengthy post on X detailing his extensive military experience. And he also said that, quote,

"If this is meant to intimidate me and other members of Congress from doing our jobs and holding this administration accountable, it won't work." He

said, "I've given too much to this country to be silenced by bullies who care more about their own power than by protecting the Constitution."

Now, there have been a lot of questions about whether these congresspeople and senators should have made this video. President Trump has been

extremely angry about this. He's called it sedition. He's called it treason. He has demanded consequences for them.

[14:50:00]

And in fact, last week, he told Fox News that Secretary Hegseth was looking into this. So, clearly, this is something that is very personal to the

president. And I think that is going to come up as well. If there is indeed a judicial part of this and an attempt to prosecute Kelly, there are going

to be questions about undue command influence here and whether the president and whether Secretary Hegseth are unduly using their authority to

try to influence this entire process. Max.

FOSTER: OK. Fascinating. Natasha, thank you. Now, this hour, we've been bringing you some excerpts of Isa's conversations with the former U.S.

Secretary of State, John Kerry. She sat down with him on Friday for a CNN Portugal event, and asked him about some of the recent language from

President Donald Trump, including calling out these democratic lawmakers and accusing them of quote, "seditious behavior," punishable by death. Take

a listen to his reaction and response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: I will just say to you that we have learned by now, after the first term, and we have learned now in the second term that this is a damaged

human being who does not necessarily connect the words that he's speaking to truth or to any reality. And this is what we're dealing with. And we

will get through it. We will get through this.

You saw what happened in the elections this year, and I'm not going to predict, but I'm, you know, quite confident I will work very hard with

everything I have to make sure that we make our democracy work in a year from now.

So, everybody here, you can draw your own conclusions about the president. You don't need me to characterize him. But how many people want their

children hearing the kinds of things that you hear from him, or the descriptions you hear from them. It's a sad day for our country and for

democracy that that that's where we are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: John Kerry speaking to Isa. Coming up, we'll take you to the White House officially, the president and the first lady launching this year's

holiday season.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: A dazzling light show captured from space. These are the Northern Lights as seen from the International Space Station. Look at that.

[14:55:00]

Shot by astronaut Zena Cardman, a commander on NASA's SpaceX Crew 11 mission. The colorful display of auroras is thanks to charged sun particles

colliding with the Earth's atmosphere around the poles. Auroras have been gracing the sky more frequently since the sun is at the peak of an 11-year

activity cycle, apparently known as a solar maximum. So, expect more light shows this year.

The White House on its way to becoming a winter wonderland. First Lady Melania Trump received the Christmas tree as part of a long-running annual

tradition. This year, a concolor fir will be the centerpiece of the bloom. Grown in Sydney, Michigan. The tree will have made a 650-mile journey to be

inspected by the first lady there. This comes as tours of the White House resume for the first time since September, when they were paused whilst

that East Wing was demolished.

Thank you for watching tonight. Do stay with CNN. And with me, I'll have "What We Know" next.

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[15:00:00]

END