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Isa Soares Tonight
Washington And Kyiv Signal Progress On Talks To End Russia's War In Ukraine; Americans Gear Up For Thanksgiving Week; Chinese Astronauts Get Stranded In Space; Hallie Rubenhold's "Story Of A Murder"; FBI To Interview Dem Lawmakers Behind "Illegal Orders" Video; Mexico Protests To End Violence Against Women; China Launches Emergency Spacecraft For Stranded Astronauts. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired November 25, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
MAX FOSTER, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Max Foster in for Isa Soares. Tonight, diplomacy in real
time. Washington and Kyiv signal there's been progress on talks to end Russia's war in Ukraine, but more discussions are needed to reach a deal.
We'll have the latest on where the peace proposal stands right now. Then the busiest Thanksgiving holiday travel period in 15 years. Is it at its
peak today? We'll look at how airlines coping. Plus, a mission to return stranded Chinese astronauts in space now under way. I'll speak to retired
NASA astronaut to find out what actually happens next?
So, how close are we to a peace deal? Moments ago, British Prime Minister Keir Starmer announced that Ukraine's President is indicating that he could
accept the, quote, "majority of the U.S.-based proposal". This, amid a flurry of diplomatic activity. U.S. Army Secretary Dan Driscoll is making a
fresh push to find a resolution to the war with Russian officials in Abu Dhabi.
Back in Washington, the White House says they still need to sort out what it calls a few delicate details between the U.S., Russia and Ukraine. World
leaders are closely watching these negotiations play out. French President Emmanuel Macron urges Kyiv to have robust security guarantees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT, FRANCE: We are clearly at a -- at a crucial juncture. Negotiations are getting a new impetus, and we should seize this
momentum, not because there is reason for alarm. Ukraine is solid, Russia is slow and Europe is steadfast. But because there is finally a chance to
make real progress toward a good peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, this map shows the extent of Russia's control in key Ukrainian regions from Kherson to Luhansk. Overnight, Russia launched a
barrage of missiles and drones on Kyiv, killing at least seven people. Russian officials say a major Ukrainian drone attack killed at least three
people in southern Russia.
Our team tracking developments for us, starting with Matthew Chance, we've also got Alayna in Washington. But Matthew, you're speaking to people
involved in the talks.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I mean, look, I've been -- just coming back from Geneva, where obviously
there have been these intensive negotiations underway between the United States and Ukrainian delegations and the Europeans as well, to try and sort
of hammer out a common position that they can then present to the Russians.
There was a 28-point peace plan, as you well know, and the Americans have been sort of putting a very positive spin on it, saying that they're very
in step with each other, there's just a few issues that are outstanding that need to be discussed. But the U.S. position voiced by Marco Rubio; the
Secretary of State yesterday, was that these issues are not insurmountable.
But I've been speaking to a Ukrainian source with direct knowledge of the negotiations under way within the past few minutes. And he's been spelling
out for me exactly what the problems are with the wording and with the substantive issues of this -- of this proposal. And there are at least,
three areas, and they're key areas where the Ukrainians say -- this source tells me, the Ukrainians are still not in lockstep with the United States
on when it comes to a proposal to submit to the Russians.
The first one is the demand for Ukraine to surrender territory that has been annexed, but not yet conquered by Russia in eastern Ukraine. That was
one of the points in the 28-point proposal. It's obviously very controversial. And it's something that has been a red line for Kyiv for a
long time.
The current position is that progress has been made. This is according to that Ukrainian source, but no final decision has yet been made on whether
or not to accept that issue. So, that's one important obstacle. There's two more. The second one, very briefly, the military limitations put on
Ukraine.
It was demanded that it should have a maximum 600,000 people in its Armed Forces, that figure has now changed. But Ukrainians say they want further
changes, and then the issue of NATO membership in the future. One of the main reasons Russia says that it went to war in Ukraine was to prevent
Ukraine from joining the western military alliance.
[14:05:00]
And it was an important part of that 28-point plan that Ukraine should renounce all future aspirations to join NATO. This Ukrainian source, very
highly placed, tells me that Ukraine is rejecting those calls to you know, denounce --
FOSTER: Flat rejection --
CHANCE: Flat rejections were announced these -- to announce future membership of NATO, saying that, that would give Russia basically a veto of
western military alliance.
FOSTER: So, Alayna, how do you read this from the White House? They're saying -- you know, I mean, we're talking just about three issues here. So,
there's some positivity, I guess, that they're down to three issues. But as Matthew points out, some of them are insurmountable.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Yes, and look, from my conversations, Max -- excuse me, I'm getting a little feedback there. From my conversations with
people here at the White House is the optimism that they are projecting this air of confidence you are hearing from top officials, from the
President himself, but also his White House Press Secretary, who put out a statement today, touting the progress that has been made, and especially
the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio.
He has been very positive in the rhetoric he was using, particularly following those negotiations in Geneva on Sunday. All of that is part of a
strategy. It's by design, essentially is what I am being told. And that's because they believe that, that public optimism is in a way, putting
maximum pressure on both Ukraine and Russia.
They want this to be playing out in the public, and essentially make it harder for them to walk away from this when they're saying so publicly that
they feel like they are close on a deal. Now, will that actually work? Very much unclear. And I think despite -- you know, you heard from one U.S.
official today, saying that there were -- there was a peace agreement on the broad strokes of this framework.
I mean, we are very far from that. We have not seen a document. A lot of this is still ideas that need to be processed, language needs to be taken
down. But what they're trying to argue is that they are closer than they felt before. And that is a big step, particularly when you look at how we
got here in the first place.
I would remind you, Max, just last week, we were reporting that Steve Witkoff; the President's top adviser, was quietly hammering out an initial
28-point plan with the Russians. Now, Matthew just walked through some of the reasons that, that was really a Russian wish list. Something seen very
broadly by people here in Washington, but also by Ukraine and Europe as essentially being favorable to Russia.
What I'm told is that they really were able to get to a good place on Sunday, and in the talks that have continued with the Ukrainians. A key
question, of course, is working out those very big remaining sticking points, and also ensuring that Russia doesn't do what it has done every
single time in the past.
Which is, you know, talk optimistically, essentially tell President Trump specifically as well in his phone calls with the Russian President,
Vladimir Putin, you know, what he wants to hear, just to pull away and not really be willing to make significant and substantial concessions and
commitments that can actually result in a lasting -- a lasting agreement.
And so, there's still much work to be done. But I do think broadly, this Trump administration is very much eager to build on this momentum,
particularly after weeks of these talks feeling dormant. They feel like they are at a precipice right now, where if they can keep up this momentum,
keep projecting positivity and keep both sides talking, that they might actually be able to come to a broader framework that they can fully work on
the details to try and hammer out into a longer peace deal down the line.
FOSTER: OK, Alayna, Matthew, thank you both very much. We're joined by Nina Khrushcheva now, she is the Professor of International Affairs at The New
School, and great granddaughter, Nikita Khrushchev as well. Thank you for joining us, Nina. So, we've heard --
NINA KHRUSHCHEVA, PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, THE NEW SCHOOL: Thank you --
FOSTER: The Ukrainian view here, they've got some sticking points they can't get past. We've heard the U.S. view. They feel they've done a lot
better with this negotiation than they expected. And the Russian view, what's that, do you think?
KHRUSHCHEVA: Well, the Russian view is that -- it's not clear. I mean, the Russians saying that they haven't seen the official list of those -- of
those points, the 28-point, then there was the 24-European point that was agreed upon in Geneva. And now I think it's a 19-point agreement. So, the
Russians have it -- they say that they haven't seen officially, although in Abu Dhabi, it must have -- so, they must have seen something.
I am not optimistic. I think Alayna said that the American side and European side will not allow to do what Russians usually do, which is
withdraw from the negotiations. But Russia is actually -- Putin has been very clear about the Donbas, something that Matthew Chance pointed out, the
Donbas region, that it's not negotiable that Russia would have to take it, if not diplomatically, then militarily.
[14:10:00]
Then the size of Ukraine army, which could be an issue, and then NATO membership. And another thing that wasn't mentioned is Russian frozen
assets that Russians consider to be a theft on the part of western powers. So, I don't seem -- I don't -- I don't see how these sticking points, this
four -- three, four, five sticking points can actually be unstuck.
Because all the optimism American side is projecting is not going to convince Putin to agree on things that he said -- he has been saying very
clearly, he's not going to agree upon.
FOSTER: I guess they could keep negotiating, get somewhere on the border issue, somewhere on the troop number issue as well. But from speaking to
Matthew, also speaking to European Ministers yesterday, there's one very clear sticking point, which is that Europe feels that any questions about
NATO membership can only be taken by members, not by Russia, anyone outside the group.
But of course, at the very start of this, one of the issues was, as Matthew said, that Russia never wanted Ukraine to join NATO. So --
(CLEARS THROAT)
FOSTER: It appears to be a red line for both sides. How are they going to get past that?
KHRUSHCHEVA: I don't know, I mean, I don't think they can. And in fact, one of the -- it seems to me one of the kind of the 28-point and then
conversations around it, that fine, if Ukraine is not going to join NATO, then there would still be Article 5 of NATO agreement. That is, one Member
of -- the "attack on one member means attack on all the members".
So, for the Russians, that means - it doesn't matter. You're not a member of NATO, then you still have an Article 5. So, I am -- I am not optimistic
in any way on the Russians agreeing to this conditions that are redlines for Ukraine. And so, obviously, the red lines for the Russians. We heard --
I don't know if you've had this information that Viktor Orban; Putin's ally in Europe, the -- of -- Viktor Orban of Hungary, is going to go to Moscow,
supposedly, on Friday, and maybe speak on Trump's behalf, try to negotiate something with Putin.
But I don't think that Putin is going to blink, especially when Europeans are arguing sort of the moral clause that Ukraine -- since Russia invaded,
needs to step back. Russia is an invader and therefore, it's not going to step back.
FOSTER: How do you think they're going to play this? How seriously are they taking this, Russia? Are they just, you know, making it look as if they are
interested in negotiation, when actually it's just a really useful way of killing some time whilst they continue battling on the field.
KHRUSHCHEVA: Well, I actually think that Putin has been always interested in negotiations. I disagree with general argument that he doesn't want to.
He just wants it on his terms. He's not going to back down, something that I've been saying all along. So, they do want -- and that's why they -- even
if they say they haven't seen the plan of 28 peace point-plan, Putin did say that, that can become the basis of.
But whatever was taken out of it, and now it's up to supposedly 19 points. All the things that Russians would want in that negotiations are not going
to be in. And therefore, for him, that is not negotiable. So, I think he wants to negotiate, but he does at this point at least, he does speak from
a position of strength.
He's certainly moving on in Ukraine. It's not Ukraine that is pushing the Russians back, and therefore he thinks, come to me with something that I
can accept, or if you don't come to me with this, then that's fine, I'm going to continue fighting.
FOSTER: What does Donald Trump do then out of this? Is this his last chance at getting some sort of negotiated peace and he really has to pick sides
after this?
KHRUSHCHEVA: Well, i think Donald Trump is persistent, and we don't -- and Donald Trump doesn't give up. So, if this doesn't work out, he's going to
punish. I mean, and that's another thing that we've been witnessing, is that, this push-and-pull of Donald Trump, he's -- he's not -- he's angry
with Volodymyr Zelenskyy. He's then angry with Putin.
He may say again that Vladimir Putin is a paper tiger. He may sanction more of oil and gas and sort of making sure that Russia would never be an oil
and gas major power ever again. But I think Trump will continue. I think he will be pushing until, as he says, you know, you have to give two sides to
fight it off, and then we'll get it.
And I think he -- I think as much as he wants to have it fast, he's also willing to make sure that he himself is going to be the solution to this.
He wants to be in the center of things. And let's remember that Nobel Peace Prize for next year is still dangling right in front of him.
FOSTER: OK, I really appreciate it, Nina. Thank you so much for joining us today with your thoughts on the --
KHRUSHCHEVA: Thank you --
[14:15:00]
FOSTER: On the Russian angle on this. The U.S. government just formally declared Venezuela's President a member of a foreign terrorist organization
meanwhile. Yet, we're earning that President Trump is considering talking directly with Nicolas Maduro. Sources tell CNN, that's one option on the
table after Mr. Trump recently decided to reopen some form of communication with Venezuela's leadership.
One official says nothing has been set up just yet. The U.S. accuses Mr. Maduro of heading a terrorist drug cartel, something Venezuela calls a
ridiculous lie meant to pave the way for U.S. military intervention. The U.S. has amassed more than a dozen warships and 15,000 troops in that
region, as it steps up deadly strikes on alleged drug-trafficking boats.
Let's get more now from CNN's Jennifer Hansler in Washington. I mean, Donald Trump does like to negotiate. You would assume he would accept this
offer of a chat.
JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You would think, Max. And this sort of exemplifies the idea that all options really are on the table here for the
U.S. President, as he considers his next steps on Venezuela. Now, we understand that U.S. officials are exploring a number of avenues for
contact with Nicolas Maduro.
One of those could be direct conversations. We don't know in what form if that would be phone, potentially a face-to-face meeting. Another option
would be working through intermediaries, other countries who could be negotiating with the Venezuelan president. Of course, that's on the
diplomatic side of things.
At the same time, we know the President has also been presented with a number of military options for engagement within Venezuela. These include
strikes on facilities, drug facilities, they say, in that country. So, there is this really desperate sort of range of options that the U.S.
President is dealing with.
Now, of course, you noted that there is a huge military asset build-up in the region. The U.S. has been conducting these lethal kinetic strikes on
these alleged drug vessels. And just yesterday, they formally designated Cartel de los Soles, which they say is a foreign terrorist organization
that is tied to Nicolas Maduro.
They have put a $50 million bounty on the Venezuelan president because they say he is involved in drug trafficking. At the same time, though, if they
do pursue this diplomatic route with him, there are questions of what would be the next steps if they would be asking for him to leave power in
Venezuela, how quickly that could be done.
So, there are a lot of questions around this policy. Of course, Maduro himself has been promoting peace. He has spoken out in public trying to
voice these messages to Venezuela, we -- or to the United States, rather, excuse me. We also know that he has been trying to communicate through back
channels to the U.S., that he wants to talk. Max?
FOSTER: Jennifer, thank you as ever. The U.S. Justice Department is considering next steps after a judge tossed out cases against two Trump
political enemies. Indictments were dismissed on Monday against former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James. Now, the
federal judge rejected Lindsey Halligan; President Trump's hand-picked prosecutor, calling her appointment defective.
The White House said Monday, the case dismissals will not be the final word on the matter, and the DOJ may file an appeal. The former FBI director says
he expects President Trump to come after him again. All right, still to come tonight, the busiest Thanksgiving holiday travel period in 15 peaks --
15 years peaks today.
But the weather is not cooperating. We'll have the details. Plus, the latest installment of "ISA'S BOOK CLUB", Hallie Rubenhold's "Story of a
Murder" takes a look at so-called crime of the century through a feminist lens.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HALLIE RUBENHOLD, AUTHOR & HISTORIAN: Using a crime as I have done in this book to give us a picture of life, because it's a snapshot, is what
ultimately I was aiming for, and we can -- we can talk about a moment in history through a crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
FOSTER: The busiest Thanksgiving holiday travel period in 15 years. It's at its peak today, more than 52,000 flights are scheduled across the U.S. The
weather is not cooperating, though. In Atlanta, the world's busiest airport, a ground stop was issued this morning due to incoming
thunderstorms.
Let's bring in CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean on the busiest day for travel this Thanksgiving. He joins us from Ronald Reagan National
Airport in Arlington, Virginia. Surely, people are desperate to travel after, you know, the chaos of recent weeks.
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and you know, a lot of people had the government shutdown as top of mind, Max, at least, the
airlines tell me. And they were worried that people might sit on the sidelines. Although, what's interesting is that Southwest Airlines tells me
that folks typically wait until today to book their Thanksgiving trips, a little late for my taste.
Now, here's a live look at the TSA line here at Reagan National Airport, where the wait is about five minutes to get through standard screening and
pre-check. We had our Haley Britzky here earlier today, we happened to run into her. She covers national security for us, and she said that she was
able to get through the line in about seven minutes.
So, things are moving pretty smooth. That is the good news. The bad news - you mentioned that there were some issues in Atlanta earlier today that
caused the ground stop there. There were major thunderstorms there. Really, the airport, Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport, the busiest airport
in the world walloped by storms that caused the air traffic control tower to have to be evacuated for about ten minutes.
Atlanta really making up the lion's share of delays right now, about 2,700 delays in the U.S., the cancellation numbers remain relatively low. Really,
when it comes to dealing with this, it all falls on the airlines. And I was at Southwest Airlines Operations Center in Dallas just last week. They call
it Network Operations Control, and they say they're in charge of about 800 different airplanes, thousands of flights.
When you put it all together on the busiest days of the Thanksgiving rush, we're talking 500,000 or 600,000 people transported on the airline a day.
That's like moving the population of Minneapolis. COO Andrew Watterson told me that the airline is very much ready for this rush. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW WATTERSON, COO, SOUTHWEST AIRLINES: All the elements are in place for a very smooth Thanksgiving. Good staffing, good weather, and so, I
think it will be smooth sailing for customers. We have redundant technology. We have a better staffing, better decision-making. And so,
we're able to handle these large scale events very well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MUNTEAN: The transportation security administration here in the U.S. anticipating about 17.8 million people will travel between today and next
Tuesday through airport security checkpoints like this one today, when it's said and done, about 2.7 million travelers in total. It is a big number,
but the biggest numbers are ahead, the Sunday after Thanksgiving is when everybody begins coming home all at once, and that will maybe set a new all
time air travel record of about 3 million people seen at airports nationwide. Max.
FOSTER: OK, we'll see. Pete, thank you so much. U.S. President Donald Trump leaning into Thanksgiving traditions, pardoning two turkeys at the White
House ahead of the holiday on Thursday. Hatched last July in North Carolina, Gobble(ph) and Waddle(ph) weigh at 52 and 50 pounds,
respectively.
They spent their young lives training for their pardon, of course, getting accustomed to loud sounds, big crowds and bright lights. Look at them,
perfectly trained. After the festivities, the pair will retreat to North Carolina State University's Department of Poultry Science, where they hope
to live out a long retirement.
And as well as the U.S., the holiday shopping season kicks off this week in Europe. And it's not just the shoppers who could be seeing higher prices,
it's the shops as well. CNN's Anna Cooban explains.
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNA COOBAN, CNN REPORTER (on camera): I'm standing on the most expensive retail strip in the world. New Bond Street in London has overtaken Milan
and New York as the priciest place to be selling stuff to the ultra wealthy.
(voice-over): According to a new report from commercial real estate company, Cushman and Wakefield, rents over the last year on New Bond Street
increased by 22 percent to over $2,200 per square foot per year. Rents in New York on Upper Fifth Avenue stayed at around $2,000 per square foot, and
losing the top spot is Milan's fashion district Via Monte Napoleone.
Again, there have been no rent increases this year. So, why are these luxury brands scrambling for a spot on this sidewalk?
(on camera): Burberry. It's an iconic British fashion brand, and the company recently posted its first quarter of growth in two years. Now, as
CEO Joshua Schulman has talked recently about the importance of going back to basics, displaying the iconic scarves and trench coats in the shop
windows, and the report by Cushman and Wakefield has made it clear how important it is for brands to really lean into their flagship stores.
Being in person, smelling, touching, feeling the clothes, that is really good for business. It's not just coats and scarves that are really pushing
up the rents here. I'm here between Burlington Gardens and Clifford Street. Now, this is the most hotly-contested slice of retail real estate in the
world right now, and it's where you get your diamonds.
(voice-over): It's so easy to get swept up in the glitz and glamour before you remember the price tag. I guess I'll just settle for a spot of window
shopping.
(on camera): Most people will do their shopping a stone's throw from here. Neither Oxford Street or Regent Street, but even there, there have been
double-digit rent increases. So, it's going to be an expensive Christmas, not just for shoppers, but for the shops. Anna Cooban, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: All right, still to come tonight, "ISA'S BOOK CLUB" dives into the world of historical true crime with a feminist twist. Hallie Rubenhold's
"Story of a Murder" up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:43]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Joining us today is Hallie Rubenhold with "Story of Murder: The Wives, the Mistress, and Dr. Crippen." Welcome
to the show.
HALLIE RUBENHOLD, AUTHOR, "STORY OF A MURDER": Thank you.
SOARES: For those who may not know this story, because this was set in 19 - - it happened in 1910, is that right, Hallie?
RUBENHOLD: Yes.
SOARES: Tell us about Dr. Crippen and who -- what exactly happened.
RUBENHOLD: Well, Dr. Crippen was an American homeopathist who moved to London with his wife, Belle Elmore, who started her life as an opera singer
and then became a musical performer in London. And obviously, you know, they moved to London, started a new life. They were both very unhappy, and
he started to have an affair with what was called a lady typist. Her name was Ethel Le Neve, and he and Ethel fell in love and decided they needed to
get rid of Belle. So, he administered some poison. It looked like they were going to get away with it, but they didn't.
SOARES: At that time, how big of a crime was -- I mean, how would you define this crime at that time in 1910?
RUBENHOLD: It was absolutely massive. In fact, it was being called in the press the crime of the century.
SOARES: Oh, wow.
RUBENHOLD: I mean, also -- I mean, bear in mind, it's 1910. So, we've got a lot of the century to go. But what was so unique about it was -- well,
first of all, there was a chase, and the whole world was watching. So, Crippen and Ethel ran off dressed as father and son and tried to get to
Canada from Belgium. Everybody knew they were on this ship, the Montrose, because the captain had used his Marconi wireless and wired to shore to
say, I think I've got these fugitives. It was in the newspapers, and everyone was looking for them, and Captain Kendall wired to shore. And
then, all of a sudden, all of the newspapers all over the world knew that the fugitives were on the ship.
SOARES: What was it about this crime that caught your attention? Why this one? And why not another one? What fascinated you the most here, Hallie?
RUBENHOLD: It is such an interesting insight into Edwardian Britain, but also the United States at this time. It's about what's going on. And for
me, what was so gripping was, well, first of all, a murder creates an enormous amount of paperwork, and that's true today as well. But for
historians, this stuff is gold dust. These papers are so -- these documents are so useful because it's lots and lots of witness statements, of
firsthand accounts of what people's lives were like, how they experienced their everyday lives, and what they wore, what they ate, what they thought
of themselves, what they thought of their neighbors, what they were doing.
And so, using a crime, as I have done in this book, to give us a picture of life, because it's a snapshot, is what ultimately, I was aiming for. And we
can talk about a moment in history through a crime.
SOARES: What did that tell you about that moment? I saw them described like social climbers, this couple.
RUBENHOLD: Everybody in this story were social climbers. But this was at a time in history when, really for the first time, it was possible to start
earning a living as a woman, as a professional woman, a woman working in an office, a woman having a job, a woman having some independence from men,
which is what Ethel was doing, and to a certain degree, Belle was doing as well, and all the women around Belle. But also, you know, the middle
classes had more, I want to say comfort at their fingertips than they would have had in previous decades.
SOARES: What was it about Dr. Crippen? I mean, looking at the photos of him, he isn't exactly that -- you know, he's not very --
RUBENHOLD: He's repulsive.
SOARES: He's not -- Yes, thank you.
RUBENHOLD: Yes. He is repulsive.
SOARES: I was like, I cannot describe him without being offensive, but he's not that attractive as gentlemen.
RUBENHOLD: No, no.
SOARES: So, what was it that attracted him to, these women to him? What was it, what was the allure?
RUBENHOLD: He was a good provider. And we have to remember that what women were seeking from men at a time when women were not financially empowered
was a man who was a good provider, a man who was kind, a man who was polite, a man who was genteel.
[14:35:00]
He was a doctor, and he certainly presented himself as a man who had a lot of money and at times had no money. He was a gambler, he was a swindler, he
was a fraudster. If you grew up with no money, as both Ethel and Belle and even his first wife Charlotte did, this man was your ticket out.
SOARES: How long did it take you, by the way, to write this?
RUBENHOLD: I had the interruption of COVID and lockdown in the middle of it. So, it took me four years, but that was because I couldn't access most
of the archives for a lot of that time.
SOARES: Right.
RUBENHOLD: A lot of people don't know that during COVID, the archives and libraries were shut. So, that had a knock-on effect on how quickly one can
get a book written that's nonfiction. I did actually use that time to do an incredible sort of fingertip search of the contemporary newspapers, which
are mostly available online.
SOARES: So, your newspapers, transcripts, that sort of thing?
RUBENHOLD: Newspapers, transcripts, police reports, home office documents, all in the National Archives. But I also went to Salt Lake City, I went to
New York, I went to San Diego, where the Crippins lived. I went to Ireland as well. So, I was on the trail of them. As soon as we were let out of
lockdown.
SOARES: Explain why you focus on the women, why you make the women the center of your book.
RUBENHOLD: For most of history, we have the men telling the stories, and the men are the only people, and usually the white men are the only people
telling the stories. I think the story cannot be told in full unless you pull the lens back and you see who else is sitting in the room. Because it
makes you ask the question, what is truth?
SOARES: Just picking up on that, I mean, women at the time, very often, like you say, Hallie, shunned from history, their voices silent. How were
they writing down what they were going through? How were they processing these moments?
RUBENHOLD: These women actually did write down their accounts of what went on. However, their accounts were kind of swept under the carpet. Nobody
wanted to hear that. And so, I'm bringing them back in again. And this gives it a much fuller sense of what women's lives were like, how they
participated in public events.
In fact, one of the things I found so fascinating is at a time when women could not be barristers, solicitors, judges, could not even be in the
police, the women expressed their voices and their opinions by being witnesses in this trial. They sat in the Old Bailey, and there were so many
female witnesses in Dr Crippen's trial that it really blew me away when I was looking at this originally, at the trial transcripts, and how this is
really significant, because women did not have a voice in the legal or the justice system at that time.
SOARES: Hallie, thank you very much. I'm going to give you -- you've got a sharpie there, I'm going to get you to sign our book.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Coming soon to Issa's book club, Pussy Riot member Masha Alyokhina joins her with "Political Girl: Life and Fate in Russia." She tells Isa why
she stands up against Vladimir Putin's oppressive regime and what it's like to be detained in a penal colony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MASHA ALYOKHINA, AUTHOR, "POLITICAL GIRL": The book is about what you call evolution of repressions, or I call it like road to hell. So, it covers the
period since I left prison, after two years there, to the moment I left Russia. So, it's from 2014 when Putin annexed Crimea to 2022 when he
started the full-scale war. And for many people in the West, it's quite unclear what is going on in our country, because still, in the end of 2025,
people ask why Russians are not protesting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: A timely book to read. We're going to be back after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:40:00]
FOSTER: Just in to us, the FBI taking steps to interview the six Democratic lawmakers in a controversial video. In it, they remind U.S.
service members they can disobey illegal orders. The U.S. president is furious over the video, though. He called it seditious behavior.
Arlette Saenz is following the story for us in Washington, I mean, what's the basis for these interviews then, Arlette?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Max, that's the detail we're still working to figure out. But the FBI is seeking interviews with these six
Democratic lawmakers. Now, the FBI made these requests to the U.S. Capitol Police, which then referred the agency to the Senate and the House Sergeant
at Arms. And these offices for the six Democratic lawmakers have confirmed that they have received inquiries about potential interviews.
Now, Senator Elissa Slotkin posted on X that there was a request from the FBI's Counterterrorism Division. And the other the four Democratic House
lawmakers all released a joint statement saying, quote, "President Trump is using the FBI as a tool to intimidate and harass members of Congress." They
added, "No amount of intimidation or harassment will ever stop us from doing our jobs and honoring our Constitution."
Senator Mark Kelly, who is also being investigated by the Department of Defense, his office also confirmed to us that they received this inquiry
for an interview. Now, this marks a significant escalation from the Trump administration, which has argued that this video that was posted by these
six Democratic lawmakers undermines President Trump's authority as commander in chief.
But it's still unclear what exactly this FBI investigation will entail. We know that President Trump has warned and has argued that these lawmakers
have committed sedition and treason and that they are taking these statements from them very seriously. But overall, what we have heard in the
tone from the Democratic lawmakers is that they are not backing down, despite the threats from President Donald Trump, that they stand by their
words when they encouraged military troops and also members of the intelligence community to not adhere to any law orders that might be
illegal or unlawful.
So, we will see where exactly these conversations, if they do take place with the FBI, might lead. Right now, these offices for these six Democrats
have yet to say whether the lawmakers will, in fact, sit down for interviews. But it is a significant escalation from the Trump
administration to even request these interviews, FBI interviews, with these six lawmakers, as President Trump has expressed a lot of anger about what
they had to say in that video.
FOSTER: OK. Arlette, thank you. Now, thousands of women in Mexico and Spain are taking to the streets in protest, marking the International Day for the
Elimination of Violence Against Women. In Mexico, this comes just weeks after the president, Claudia Sheinbaum, was sexually harassed by a drunk
man on the streets, triggering mass outrage and leading to a draft law which would criminalize sexual abuse nationally. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLAUDIA SHEINBAUM, MEXICAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Harassment and abuse against women must be punished. It is a crime, and we have to
classify it as such. We need to include it in federal criminal procedure codes of Mexico City and Mexican states. That is the first step.
But, secondly, there must also be an educational process for everyone, men and women. In this way, any act of violence against women will not be seen
as customary or something that has always existed, but rather will be questioned and behaviors will change.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[14:45:00]
FOSTER: Well, violence against women in Mexico is staggering when you look at the numbers. According to the Mexican government, nearly seven out of 10
women, age 15 or older, have suffered at least one incident of violence in their life. And, according to U.N. Women, two out of three women have faced
some form of violence or know a woman who has.
French police have detained four more people who are suspected to be involved in last month's heist at the Louvre. The suspects are two men, age
38 and 39, two women, 31 and 40. All four are from the Paris region. Paris prosecutors have yet to release more details about the possible charges,
though. The new suspects join four other suspects detained in late October. Thieves raided the Apollo gallery in the Louvre's upper floor and made it
off with nine items, including the French crown jewels. That was October the 19th.
Still to come tonight, China has launched a new rescue mission to its space station. We'll speak to a former NASA astronaut about what it's like to be
on the International Space Station.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: A mission to return stranded Chinese astronauts in space is underway. China launched the unmanned Shenzhou 22 spacecraft on Tuesday.
It's headed to China's space station to return three astronauts who arrived on November the 1st aboard the Shenzhou 21. The craft was used to return a
separate crew whose spacecraft sustained window damage. The current crew is expected to return sometime in 2026.
Joining me now is retired astronaut for NASA, Cady Coleman. Thank you so much for joining me, Cady. I mean, what are your thoughts for these people?
CADY COLEMAN, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: Well, I'm excited to see that backup ship up there launched and docked in it. And it demonstrates a really
important capability to make sure that we can be resilient and take care of the crews up in space.
They're not coming home anytime soon because their mission actually continues to the spring. But every minute that you're on that space
station, you want to have a rescue craft that you can go home in. And now, they have one.
FOSTER: Yes, just explain the process here then. They're going to stay up there, but they need this way of getting home effectively, right?
COLEMAN: So, in the simpler cases like mine, I launched on the Russian Soyuz up to the space station. And that ship that you go up on, there's
seats for three people and really not much room for literally anything else. So, it's a very small.
[14:50:00]
So, three people in that spacecraft go up to the space station, and then we work up there. That ship is also our rescue ship. Whatever one you came up
in, typically that is your rescue ship. Now, the crew that was on board there, they noticed a crack in the window. I haven't heard a lot of details
about what's actually wrong with that craft. But in any case, they deemed it unsafe for return. And so, when the new crew came up, then they took the
new crew's spacecraft or rescue craft home. So, for about a week or so here, this crew has not had a way home that is safe enough, so to speak.
FOSTER: So, how do they solve that? Because they can't send a rocket up unmanned to dock on the space station.
COLEMAN: Well, what they -- that's what they actually just did today, is that the ship -- so there's three people up there -- I'll just go back for
a second. So, three people are up there, they noticed there's a problem with their ship, and they're about to change crews. And what happens when
that happens is the next group comes up and they actually do a handover.
So, now we have six people up on the space station and only one working spacecraft, because the old crew's spacecraft doesn't look good for
returning home. So, the old crew came home in the new crew's spacecraft with permission, I'm sure. So, they come home and the new crew is up there
at the of their six month or so mission, but their rescue craft is suspect.
And so, what the Chinese did today was launch a new rescue craft with no people in it, and it docked automatically. And then that became -- the
minute it was docked and sealed, that became the crew 21's rescue craft.
FOSTER: It's fascinating, isn't it? I mean, how much of a mission is that to get one up there without anyone on board to guide for those last few
moments into the space station?
COLEMAN: Well, people have gotten -- I can't speak, of course, for the Chinese technology, but our supply ships dock, you know, robotically to the
space station. And what's interesting to me back in my day, those -- in fact, I was there for the very beginning of the phase when new ships would
come up and actually come close to the space station. We didn't -- just like you said, we didn't feel confident in the docking automatically
technology yet.
And so, we actually captured them with the robotic arm and attached them to the space station. So, that was in my day. And those ships were the
precursors to making sure they can dock automatically and that crews can be on board when they dock automatically.
And so, it's something we know a lot about, but there's nothing like the ability to take over manually. And that's actually what the Boeing
spacecraft is all about, is a really huge augmentation to the ability to take over manually on a spacecraft.
FOSTER: So, what do they do with the old spacecraft? Do they try and fix it? I mean, it's impossible to do, isn't it, fix a windscreen in space, or
am I being dumb?
COLEMAN: Well, I'm not sure about the problem. Our windows are typically several layers of windows. And so, it may be that the outside pane is
cracked, but it's -- certainly, it's something that they've deemed not good enough to come home with people on board. I would imagine they need the
room. There's only like a couple of places to bring people up and back. And so, they need to actually get rid of that not working spacecraft. And my
suspicion and what I hope they do is they bring it back down to the ground and then they get to see, did it make it all the way? Did the damage
increase on the down? And we learn about what is safe enough.
FOSTER: Yes, I mean, there is a lesson -- yes, it can be used as an example, can't it? Cady, really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.
You're much braver than I ever would be going up there, but thank you.
COLEMAN: Well, it's an important place to be up there. It's really a marvelous place to live and work.
FOSTER: Yes. Now, we're going to go to Australia, where the burqa has taken center stage in a political controversy yet again. Far-right Senator
Pauline Hanson wore a burqa to Parliament on Monday as a prop in her push to ban the use of the garment in public. Her conduct drew accusations of
racism from other senators. Avery Schmitz takes a closer look at the political stunt.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AVERY SCHMITZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Australian far-right Senator Pauline Hanson wore a burqa to Parliament in a political stunt condemned by
other lawmakers.
MEHREEN FARUQI, SENATOR, NEW SOUTH WALES: President, a dress code might be a choice of the senators, but racism should not be the choice of this
Senate.
FATIMA PAYMAN, SENATOR, WESTERN AUSTRALIA: She is disrespecting a faith. She is disrespecting the Muslims out there, Muslim Australians. It's
absolutely unconstitutional.
SCHMITZ (voice-over): Hanson, known for her long-time opposition to immigrants from Asia, previously used the burqa in 2017 as a prop and
attempted to ban the public wearing of the garment in Australia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This matter has been ruled on before.
[14:55:00]
LARISSA WATERS, LEADER, AUSTRALIAN GREENS: And I would like you to reconsider your earlier ruling that it is not appropriate in this Senate to
draw attention to a religion that this person does not even subscribe to. It is an insult.
SCHMITZ (voice-over): Proceedings were suspended when Hanson refused to remove it.
SUE LINES, PRESIDENT, ALP: And remove the clothing and come back dressed appropriately or risk suspension, and she certainly will not be heard if
she doesn't remove herself from the chamber.
SCHMITZ (voice-over): In a statement on X, Hanson said her actions were in protest of the Senate rejecting her proposed bill, writing, if these
hypocrites don't want me to wear a burqa, they can always support my ban.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Finally, tonight, temple staff in Thailand got the shock of a lifetime, it has to be said, when a woman brought in for cremation started
moving inside her coffin. Temple officials say the 65-year-old had been bedridden for two years and became unresponsive, leading her brother to
believe that she was dead. But the hospital refused the body due to a lack of death certificate. He then brought her to a temple offering free
cremation, and that's where staff heard knocking from inside the coffin, discovering that she was still alive. She'd been there days. She was taken
to a nearby hospital for treatment, and the temple plans on covering her medical expenses.
Thanks for watching tonight. Stay with CNN. I'll have "What We Know" up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
