Return to Transcripts main page
Isa Soares Tonight
Hundreds Killed As Body Bags Line The Streets Near Tehran; Federal Prosecutors Launch An Investigation Into Fed Chair Jerome Powell; One Battle After Another Wins Big At The Golden Globes; Iran Enters Third Week Of Anti-Government Protests; Trump "Weighing Options" Against Iran; Malaysia And Indonesia Block Access To Musk's Grok. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired January 12, 2026 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, hundreds killed as body bags line the
streets near Tehran. Iran says it's prepared for war, but open to talks with the United States. We've got all the details for you.
Plus, serving the public, not the President. A rare rebuke from Jerome Powell as federal prosecutors launch an investigation into the Fed chair.
And "One Battle After Another" wins big at the Golden Globes as podcasts make their first appearance at the awards night.
We've got the winners, the losers, the glitz and glam live from Hollywood this hour. But first, tonight. Much worse than you could imagine. That's
how one man living in Tehran is describing the government's violent crackdown on protesters. A U.S. based rights group says Iranian authorities
have arrested around 10,000 protesters. More than 500 others have been killed. That death toll, sadly, is likely to rise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SKYLAR THOMPSON, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS IN IRAN: We are still right now investigating over 500 additional cases. So, that means
that should we confirm all of these numbers, the number of those killed will exceed a thousand. And that's in just 15 days, which is, you know,
it's extraordinary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, it's difficult to get a full picture of what's happening on the ground due to the regime's attempt to silence protesters. There's been
a near-total internet blackout since last Thursday. An activist group says Iranian security forces are raiding homes and arresting anyone with
satellite equipment.
Meanwhile, one source says Iran's Foreign Minister has reached out to U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff over the weekend. And U.S. officials tell CNN,
President Donald Trump has been briefed in recent days on a series of intervention options, including military ones. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are violent -- can you call them leaders? I don't know if they're leaders or just they rule
through violence. But we're looking at it very seriously. The military is looking at it, and we're looking at some very strong options. We'll make a
determination.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, Nada Bashir is here with me, Kristen Holmes is at the White House. Nada, let me go to you first. Lots of brave people, of course, in
Iran, as we have seen over the weekend. So many thousands of people taking to the streets. Just give the viewers around the world a sense of just how
challenging it is to get a sense of what is happening on the ground in real time.
NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, as these protests kicked off in late December, we were getting daily updates from the ground. Video
evidence of what is taking place, the protests, the rallies, the strikes by business owners. That is not happening anymore.
Since late Thursday, there has been a total internet and communications blackout, which of course has many purposes as imposed by the regime to
make it more difficult for people to organize, but also to prevent people from sharing evidence of what is happening.
Not only of the protests and the sheer scale, but also of the violence that is being used by these Iranian security forces to really clamp down on
these protests. And that is certainly what we have seen.
And of course, while there is a total blackout, there have been some pockets of access where individuals have been able to share their
testimonies of videos. And we have seen some tragic and devastating video already emerging after this weekend.
SOARES: And its modus operandi in many ways, Nada, is very much been what the regime knows. And we have seen time and time and time again when there
have been protests. How different -- how different is the -- are these protests to previous ones we have been covering?
BASHIR: Well, look, they started off as protests over the economic crisis - -
SOARES: Of course, yes --
BASHIR: But they have evolved and gained momentum. And this is now really focused on the regime itself, on toppling the regime. Many calling for the
regime to be deposed. And of course, what is quite different about this, is that, we are seeing people from all walks of life taking part in this
protest.
It has spread to every province of Iran now. So, this is not centered in the capital. This is spread across the country. We're talking about people
from different sects, different ethnic backgrounds, religious sects, different ages, different religious sort of commitment levels as well.
Which is a big thing in Iran.
SOARES: Yes --
BASHIR: It has to be said that we are seeing not only people leaning towards the secular side protesting against the regime, but also people who
are -- tend to be more religious taking part in this movement --
[14:05:00]
SOARES: That is very interesting. Do stay with us. Let me go to Kristen, who is at the White House, I believe. We heard -- Kristen, if you're still
with us, President Trump, that said that Iran had -- that Tehran had called to negotiate.
We also know that this administration is weighing possible military intervention. What more are you learning this hour about what the U.S. is
planning to do here. What those options are.
BASHIR: Yes, so we just heard moments ago from Karoline Leavitt, the press secretary here at the White House, she explicitly said that President Trump
was looking more towards diplomatic resolutions, but of course, that he would use military force if necessary.
But interestingly, she did note one thing. She said the messages that they're getting behind the scenes are far different from the messages that
you're hearing from Iranian officials publicly. Now, we know that the Foreign Minister in Iran did reach out to the Middle Eastern envoy, Steve
Witkoff.
We heard President Trump talking about this potential negotiation with Iran, so unclear if that's going to actually tamp down the rhetoric. Of
course, we are seeing posturing here by both sides. And if you look through what these options are that they are considering, we know that a lot of
these various agencies are working together to try and prepare the President for all options.
Some of the things on the table here are military strikes against the regime, targeting security services used to tamp down protesters, cyber
operations as well as new sanctions. We also know that there are some within the administration who are hesitant to actually use military strikes
or military actions within the region, saying that it could backfire.
It could either cause people to rally around the Iranian government or cause some kind of retaliation from the Iranian government. We heard from
one Iranian official who essentially said that if the U.S. was to use military action, that U.S. military, as well as shipping locations would
all be legitimate targets for Iran to try and counter or retaliate.
But it does seem as though things are ramping up. Unclear about this so- called meeting between the U.S. and Iran, and whether or not, that is going to kind of change the tone that we're hearing really from both sides now.
SOARES: And as you heard, probably there, Kristen, Nada was talking about just how difficult it is to get a sense of what is happening on the ground
in terms of real time, because, of course, the internet blackout, which obviously allows the government to act with impunity.
Do we know because there was mention of potentially reaching out to Elon Musk, help with Starlink. What are you hearing on that front?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Look, they are trying to get any kind of communications into Iran. It is very difficult to understand
exactly what's going on, on the ground. But they do think that they have a better idea of what exactly is happening now.
They've also heard the reports that people are being targeted who might have Starlink or warehouses that were holding Starlink. But this is
something we've seen President Trump do and lean on his relationship with Elon Musk, not just here in Iran and not just overseas, but also here in
the United States.
This idea of putting Starlink into places where disasters hit or into Ukraine, for example. So, this is something that he is -- the two have
worked together on in the past, but they are really trying to get any kind of comms and any kind of read on exactly what's happening on the ground
there so that they know as they're weighing all these options.
SOARES: Yes, stay with us. Let me bring in Nada. Just picking up from what -- you know, what we were just hearing from Kristen and what the U.S.
administration is considering. Do we have a sense from those you are in touch with inside Iran of what they would like to see, what kind of help
they would like to see?
As Kristen was saying, that Starlink, potentially sanctions. The President also military force if necessary. What are you hearing on that front?
BASHIR: Look, there certainly is a desire for support when it comes to communications to get the information out there to -- for people to be able
to bear witness to what is happening in Iran. But of course, there is a very complicated feeling around the potential for foreign intervention --
SOARES: Yes --
BASHIR: Particularly U.S. intervention. We've already seen U.S. strikes on Iran in recent times, and that is still very fresh in the memories of many
in Iran who are reluctant to see direct military action by the United States --
SOARES: Why not? It might also unite the regime.
BASHIR: Well, that is also the feeling, because, as we've seen in the past, the regime often uses such attacks by the United States as ammunition,
really --
SOARES: Yes --
BASHIR: To rally support around the regime. And in fact, what we've seen today are huge rallies taking place across the country in support of the
Islamic regime in Iran. They have called for people to take to the streets in support of the theocratic regime currently in place.
That is what has happened today, and the fear is that, that could only be bolstered by further U.S. action. And of course, there is still -- it has
to be said, a feeling of distrust over U.S. intervention in Iran. And this is a very diverse country. And as we've said, there are multiple different
groups taking part in this protest movement.
It is very fragmented demographically. Many people will have different views and aspirations as to what Iran would look like in any sort of post-
theocratic regime state and what that future looks like, what an opposition looks like. So, that front is very fragmented.
[14:10:00]
SOARES: So, in that vein, very briefly, Nada, I mean, if you're the -- part of the Iranian regime, what would you be wanting to get out of any sort of
negotiation with this administration, the U.S. administration?
BASHIR: Well, the issue at its core is that people simply aren't able to live their daily lives because of the economic crisis. Iran's economy has
been crippled by sanctions put in place not only by the United States, but by other European nations as well. And that is -- the concern is that, the
Iranian regime doesn't really have anything to fall back on.
SOARES: Yes --
BASHIR: Not only are people against the regime from an ideological perspective, but also in terms of their day-to-day lives and ability to
carry out their day-to-day lives, it has become increasingly difficult for so many in Iran simply to purchase food, to pay their rent, to buy
medicine.
That is what many people are feeling first and foremost beyond, of course, the multitude of other issue in Iran --
SOARES: Over their concerns, which is -- this is how it started. Started with the economic crisis and spiraling inflation. Nada, thank you very
much. Our thanks as well to Kristen Holmes for us there in Washington. And in around 15 minutes time right here on the show, I'll be joined by Dina
Esfandiary.
She's a Middle East lead at "Bloomberg Economics" to try and really get more of a sense of these protests, and where this leaves the Iranian regime
following on that conversation I was just having with Nada. That interview is coming up in about 15 minutes or so.
I want to turn our attention to the United States, because the chair of the U.S. Federal Reserve is hitting back over a criminal probe launched against
him by federal prosecutors. Jerome Powell says he believes the investigation stems from the Fed's refusal to cut interest rates based on
what President Donald Trump wants.
The probe is related to the central bank's $2.5 billion renovation of its headquarters which was criticized by the President as too expensive.
Richard Quest is following the story from New York, where he -- where investors have been reacting. Richard, good to see you. Happy new year.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Thank you --
SOARES: Well, we saw -- we saw some of the politics between the President Jerome Powell play out last year. You and I spoke on numerous occasions
about this. Just how significant first of all, I know we hear all the time this is unprecedented. Just put it into context for us. How significant is
this move against the Fed chair?
QUEST: Oh, we've moved into a different league with this one. And it's not just that the accusation being leveled or the investigation into Powell and
the Fed's renovation, multi-billion renovation, it's the -- it's what the chair said himself. You know, we've got the statement here.
He describes this investigation about the building as pretexts. He says the reason is because we won't do with interest rates. We're following our best
assessment rather than the preferences of the President. He says whether -- the issue is whether monetary policy will be directed by political
pressure.
And then, I think this is also key, public service sometimes requires standing firm in the face of threats. Now, since that was given last night,
we've had a statement from pretty much all the last treasury secretaries and financial advisors and economic advisors, and they all make the same
thing.
They say this is how monetary policy is made in emerging markets, in the United States, it has no place, it's the rule of law. So, we've got into a
different league. It's going to be very difficult to backtrack this, not because the markets in any immediate sense might react one way or the
other, but because a Rubicon has been crossed.
The politicization of the Fed is now at a different level, and I think that's going to make it much more difficult to roll back.
SOARES: Right, so on that, on that letter, the piece of paper that you have, it also says the reported criminal inquiry into Federal Reserve Chair
Jay Powell is an unprecedented attempt to use prosecutorial attacks to undermine --
QUEST: Yes --
SOARES: That independence. How much, Richard, is that independence already damaged?
QUEST: Well, it was already being tweaked at and fraying because, first of all, you have the Lisa Cook business where the other governor has -- she's
trying to be removed for some -- for allegations over her mortgages. You've got that. Then you've got this business of Donald Trump saying, I'm not
going to appoint any replacement for Jay Powell, who does not agree with me.
In other words, there's now a litmus test, and that litmus test is basically a stooge or a puppet to do the President's bidding. And all of
these chip away at the statutory independence of the Fed, which is to keep maintaining monetary policy on the dual mandate.
[14:15:00]
Where I think it becomes really tricky, really tricky is when you look at the amount of money the U.S. government has to borrow, the bond market, and
if there is a feeling now that monetary policy is being dictated by the White House, and that there is no de facto independence of the Fed.
Then I think you're going to notice borrowing costs go up. I think you're going to notice it much more difficult for the raising of money, and
essentially, the dollar is going to suffer as well.
SOARES: And that's the crux of it, isn't it? But how -- just how destabilizing this potentially could -- it could be. Look, your viewers
will know this, Richard, you've been covering business news for 25-plus years. Have you seen anything like this from a democratic country?
QUEST: No. I mean, the first of all, Presidents and Prime Ministers, the rubric is the same. When asked about interest rates, you always say the
same thing. Interest rates are set by the FOMC, the MPC, whatever committee it is, it is up to them. They make their judgment. They're independent.
You may -- brief in the background, but you never say -- what you don't say is, I want interest rates down and I'm not going to appoint anybody who
doesn't agree with me, because here's where it's gone wrong, Isa. The checks and balances have now become -- they're no longer working.
So, you've got the President doing this, you've got the Fed over here doing this. Now, the checks and balances should be, Congress and the Senate, that
they're going to have to confirm. We've already heard from one person saying they won't confirm as a result of all of this.
SOARES: Yes --
QUEST: But throughout the Trump administration, this weakening of checks and balances through the system, it is those checks and balances that make
the system work. And if we are now seeing a situation where if we're seeing where Congress is going to rubberstamp, they're going to go forward.
The executive through the Department of Justice is just going to ride roughshod over, then you knew it's a completely new environment that nobody
knows how it plays out.
SOARES: Troubling, indeed. Richard Quest, thank you very much, Richard, will be back with the show "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" a bit later in the hour.
Good to see you, Richard. Thank you.
QUEST: Thank you.
SOARES: And still to come right here on the show, protesters break out -- protests break out across the United States after a shooting involving an
ICE agent left a woman dead in Minneapolis. And now about a thousand more agents are expected in the city.
Plus, the White House has put Cuba on notice, but its President remains defiant. We'll look at the U.S. threat and the Cuban response. Both of
those stories after this very short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
SOARES: Well, sources tell CNN, roughly 1,000 additional federal agents are expected to deploy to Minneapolis just days after a fatal shooting
involving an ICE agent left a woman dead. Protests have erupted nationwide as outrage grows over the death of Renee Good, a U.S. citizen and mother of
three.
Videos of last week's incident are still emerging, including this one posted by DHS over the weekend. It shows the moments leading up to the
shooting, but not the shooting itself. Tensions are now reaching new heights between local and national authorities.
Minnesota officials are disputing Washington's account while calling for greater transparency after the Justice Department blocked state
investigators from the criminal investigation. The Secretary of Homeland Security continues to defend her agency's actions. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTI NOEM, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY, UNITED STATES: I had just been in Minneapolis and had been with those officers, had seen what they were
facing on the streets every day, and had talked to their supervisors as soon as the incident happened and had gotten the facts and seen videos
before I ever went to talk at that press conference.
If you look at what the definition of domestic terrorism is, it completely fits the situation on the ground. This individual, as you saw in the video
that we released just 48 hours after this incident, showed that this officer was hit by her vehicle, she weaponized it and he defended his life
and those colleagues around him and the public.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's get more on this. Maria Santana joins me for more on these developments. Maria, good to see you. So, we have a 1,000 additional agents
on top of the 2,000. Do we have a sense what kind of operations these agents have been conducting on the ground so far?
MARIA SANTANA, CNN REPORTER: Well, yes, you know, far from tamping down the tensions, the federal government is doubling down by, like you said,
significantly expanding their footprint in Minneapolis. They're sending a 1,000 additional troops, this comes on top of the 2,000 federal agents sent
earlier this month.
And the ICE presence that has been building since December, when the Department of Homeland Security launched what it called Operation Metro
Surge. Now, the official version that the federal government is giving is that, these agents are going to continue doing immigration arrests.
The Department of Homeland Security claims that about 2,000 people have been arrested since December, when the operation began in Minnesota. But
the agents are also being used for other roles. We have seen them securing federal buildings and places where they do immigration processing.
And, you know, the surge is happening despite the strong objections from local leaders who have repeatedly asked the administration to pull federal
agents out of the city. And in this contentious interview with CNN's Jake Tapper on Sunday, DHS Secretary Kristi Noem made it clear that they are not
backing down.
They are accusing Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey of politicizing the situation and inflaming the public. All of
that unfolding as scrutiny has been intensifying over the fatal shooting of Renee Good, this U.S. citizen shot by an ICE agent, the Homeland Security
Secretary has publicly defended the agent's actions.
As we just heard, even though a formal review investigation has not been completed thus far. And at the same time, you know, officials are
increasingly concerned about potential clashes between protesters and federal agents. We kept seeing large demonstrations continuing throughout
the weekend, not just in Minneapolis, but in several other cities of the United States.
And we have seen just confrontations between the agents and the protesters. One video from the weekend shows a man being shoved into oncoming traffic
by an ICE agent as he tried to block one of their vehicles. Isa.
SOARES: I know you'll stay across it for us. Maria Santana there. Thank you, Maria.
SANTANA: Thank you.
SOARES: Well, first Venezuela and now Cuba is facing an uncertain future after the U.S. President warns Havana to, quote, "make a deal before it's
too late." In a social media post, we're going to show you President Trump warns Havana would be cut off from the Venezuelan oil and money that it has
relied on for decades.
President Miguel Diaz-Canel responded defiantly, saying and also said his government is not in talks with the U.S. government. Our Patrick Oppmann
has more for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, Cuba's President this morning denying that there are talks going on, saying that the only
conversations happening between the Cubans and the U.S. are simply about migration matters, which is a constant theme these two governments talk
about, but also leaving the door open, saying that they're willing to talk to the U.S.
[14:25:00]
They've always been willing to talk to the U.S., but again, denying that these high level conversations are actually taking place, the conversations
that President Donald Trump alluded to, you know, certainly, the Cuban government has long said that the Cubans that left, particularly those who
left after the revolution took power, really lost the rights to property, to citizenship, and that these, of course, have been -- many of them, their
mortal enemies over the decades.
Despite this back and forth, you know, he said-she said kind of thing going on, is that the U.S. does appear to control what oil is leaving Venezuela,
and the oil is not coming to Cuba at the moment.
This is oil that Cuba desperately needs. You know, all our reporting over the last year or so about Cuba's energy crisis, when you add the fact that
Cuba can no longer count on Venezuela for the oil that has kept the lights when they are on, has kept them on, really paints a dire picture for Cuba.
It's almost impossible to think how this island's economy would continue on if they did not have that Venezuelan oil. Yes, Mexico sends oil. Yes,
Russia on occasion sends oil. But it's really been Venezuela throughout the years that has sent millions of barrels of oil at a vastly discounted
price, often for free, out of solidarity.
That solidarity apparently has come to an end. It appears, as the U.S., according to President Donald Trump, is calling the shots in Venezuela. So,
certainly for the government in Nevada, while they are bristling at this talk, the reality is, they are in a very tight spot here.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Patrick Oppmann there for you in Havana. And still to come tonight, demonstrators in Iran appear undeterred now that protests have entered a
third week. So, what could come next for the regime? I'll discuss with Dina Esfandiary from "Bloomberg Economics".
Also coming up, several countries are taking action against Elon Musk's A.I. tool over explicit deepfakes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. More than two weeks into the nationwide protests in Iran, demonstrators appear undeterred despite a brutal
crackdown.
[14:30:06]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(PROTESTERS CHANTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
This video from Tehran on Sunday shows demonstrators chanting, freedom, freedom, freedom, say it. The internet blackout there, now on its fourth
day, makes it challenging to get the full picture on what's happening inside Iran.
What began as demonstrations against inflation and soaring costs of living, that we covered here on the show, have spiraled into wider unrest against
the Iranian government. The regime has responded with force, arresting thousands of people and vowing to treat them without mercy. More than 500
protests have been killed so far, according to a U.S.-based human rights group.
And take a look at this map. I want to show you this. The green dots you see there represent places where analysts have a high certainty that
protests are taking place. The yellow dots you see are a medium confidence, and the red indicates low confidence. You can see that even just the green
dots are spread throughout the country. Gives you a real sense of the scope, as we heard from our Nada Bashir right at the top of the show.
Let's get more now from CNN's Jomana Karadsheh. We must warn you, some images in her report are disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From behind the walls of the Iranian regime's censorship, a chilling video has emerged. Every
movement of what may be a hidden camera reveals a terrifying picture of what's been unfolding on the ground.
They butchered him, this mourner wails. The camera drifts past grief, not lingering long enough for us to be able to tell the stories of loss and
pain of so many who gathered at the Kahrizak Forensic Medical Center outside Tehran, searching among rows and rows of body bags that line the
courtyard for loved ones missing.
At the same facility, lines of lifeless bodies are stored in a warehouse- turned-morgue. Inside the center, distraught family members stand anxiously in front of a screen that flashes photos of the dead. They page the family
of a man named Mohamed (ph), who he and others were. How they were killed is hard for us to verify.
State media had its own pictures and narrative from the Kahrizak Forensic Institute, reporting the majority of the bodies are those of, quote,
"ordinary citizens." They blame their deaths like the protests on foreign- backed terrorists carrying out what they say are indiscriminate killings. These pictures the regime decided to air, perhaps a warning to those who
dare take to the streets.
It's almost impossible for us to get real-time updates from Iran. The regime shut down communications across the country on Thursday, just as
nationwide protests against the clerical establishment drew larger crowds to the streets of every province. It's a tactic out of its playbook on
crushing dissent, cover it's used in the past to unleash bloody force.
The little testimony and images that have been trickling out, only a small window into what a ruthless regime doesn't want the world to see. A video
like this that purportedly captures the feared state security forces out on the streets is slowly surfacing, sent out by those who are risking their
lives to get it out.
In this one location, an estimated 250 bodies, with hundreds more confirmed killed elsewhere, according to activists, the world now braces for what may
come when Iran finally emerges from the dark.
Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Important reporting there from Jomana Karadsheh and team. Joining me now for more analysis is Dina Esfandiary, the Middle East lead at
Bloomberg Economics. Dina, welcome to the show. Those images that Jumana just showed us and showed the world, and we know that there is a lag to
these images because of the internet blackout.
I mean, they're incredibly chilling to watch. What is your sense, Dina, from your contacts, from the calls you've been able to make, just how
widespread, first of all, these protests are? And just speak to the brutality of the crackdown that we have seen.
DINA ESFANDIARY, MIDDLE EAST LEAD, BLOOMBERG ECONOMICS: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. The protests have become quite widespread. They
initially started relatively small. They started out in the capital, and then things petered out in Tehran, and they moved out to the suburbs and
the poorer areas. And now, they really seem to have gripped the entire country.
[14:35:00]
So, they're widespread. They were getting larger in the lead up to the weekend, and now it's become increasingly difficult to verify just how big
they are.
The big question now is, are they going to last? Because as you've pointed out, the brutality has been unprecedented, really. It's very much a page
out of the Islamic Republic's book. When there are protests, and there are often protests in Iran, so it's nothing new. When they get very large, they
tend to crack down. And so, that's exactly what they've done in this case. The problem is it's difficult to verify just how widespread that crackdown
has been because of the internet shutdown.
SOARES: So, Dina, try to answer that very question then. Given that we've had, what, 500 and so -- 503 people killed in the period of 15 days, does
this feel different? Because we have seen crackdowns and brutal crackdowns by the regime before. Does that feel different? And if so, do you think
that they have the potential to last going forward?
ESFANDIARY: I think it feels different, not so much because of the crackdown, because again, that's how the regime usually responds. I think
it feels different this time because of each successive wave of protest is in response to the situation in Iran worsening. And the situation
economically, politically, socially, has become frankly untenable for many Iranians inside the country.
What adds an additional layer of complication is this new external threat that Iran finds itself up against. The U.S., the specter of another war
with Israel, or even U.S. airstrikes, which is something that's being talked about right now, that adds to the additional feeling of hopelessness
that the Iranian public is feeling, and it further paralyzes the Iranian state to respond to the grievances of the public. And so, it feels
different. It feels like this time, things might last a little longer.
Now, the only key factor here is really if the government cracks down hard enough to deter protesters from coming out again. It might work for a short
while, but I think in no time, they'll be back on the streets.
SOARES: How then -- when we hear the United States, considering military force, if necessary, we hear that the Iranian regime, Tehran, has reached
out to the United States, what sort of change, what would the United States be wanting from the regime, first of all? And what can the regime give the
United States in return that will placate some of the concerns?
ESFANDIARY: I think from a U.S. perspective, they will be looking for some assurances. Most of the assurances will be related to the U.S. itself. They
want an Iran that no longer poses a threat to the region, to U.S. interests. So, an Iran that is more contained.
When it comes to the protesters, I think it's difficult to say that they're happy for things to continue as is, that no, President Trump has come out
and has said they don't want the regime to climb down further on protesters. So, I think those are the things that they're going to be
looking out for.
The question is, what good options do the United States have? I think if the U.S. wants to minimize potential blowback to U.S. assets and interests
in the region, then the only thing it can do is negotiate with somebody that comes out, perhaps a strongman or several people coming out from
within the system that are willing to talk to the U.S., potentially willing to push out the supreme leader in order to really tackle some of the issues
that are going to come up in the next few months.
SOARES: Let's take a step back for just a moment, because I'm not sure if you read Karim Sadjadpour's latest piece -- well, when I say latest from
October on Foreign Affairs, it was called "The Autumn of Ayatollahs." This is what he writes. Let me read it to you, Dina. Over the past two years,
since Hamas' October 7, 2023 attack on Israel, which Khamenei alone, among many -- among major world leaders openly endorsed, his life work has been
reduced to ashes by Israel and the United States. His closest military and political proteges have been killed or assassinated. His regional proxies
have been hobbled. His vast nuclear enterprise built a staggering cost to Iran's economy and has been buried under rubble.
I mean, how -- given what he just outlined, I mean, do you agree with that? And just how vulnerable, how threatened do you think the regime is right
now, Dina?
ESFANDIARY: It's undeniable that Iran's positioning in the region has been weakened, undeniable. As you've pointed out, its proxies have been dealt a
severe blow. Its influence in the region has seen several setbacks, some at the hands of Israel, but some on its own. I mean, Syria fell last year on
its own. It had nothing to do with the Western world. So, Iran in the region finds itself in a weaker position.
[14:40:00]
What's key is not so much how we see Iran, but how the Iranian leadership sees itself. And while I think it understands that it's been weakened, I
think that perhaps until these protests, they really saw this as a temporary blip. They saw this as a normal up and down in Iran's relations
with its neighbors and the way that it deals with the U.S.
Today, with these protests, I think the situation might be different and they might start to feel the heat a little bit.
SOARES: Dina, really appreciate you coming on. Brilliant insight. Thank you very much. We'll stay across this story, of course, an important story here
on our show.
And still to come, in the meantime, in a world first, Indonesia and Malaysia have banned Elon Musk's A.I. tool. We'll discuss whether this can
improve online safety. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, Elon Musk's Grok has been blocked by Indonesia and Malaysia in a world first move. This, after the A.I. tool's digital undressing
function flooded the internet with explicit images, including some showing children.
Indonesia's digital minister says the ban is to protect women and children from the risks of fake pornography. Similar concerns have been raised here
in the U.K., where independent regulator Ofcom has announced an investigation into the platform. Musk previously stated xAI was tackling
the issue by permanently suspending accounts, but the chatbot continued flooding user requests with images sexualizing women. One source tells CNN
Musk has pushed back against guardrails for Grok within the firm.
Let's get more on this. Hadas Gold has done terrific reporting on this. She joins me now from New York. Hadas, good to see you. And it's not just the
U.K., from what I understand.
I was hearing Parliament talking about this, their concerns and their investigation into this in the last few hours. The European Union, India
have also expressed concerns here. Just talk us through their concerns and the way this is currently being used for our viewers right around the
world, Hadas.
HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's plenty of countries around the world, Brazil, France, among them, all looking into this issue. Now, a
lot of these countries, not all of them, but a lot of them already have laws in the book that criminalize or don't allow non-consensual intimate
imagery. Almost all of them, of course, have laws about this, especially when it comes to children.
There is, though, kind of a big legal question that's facing U.S., which is who is responsible for this? Is it the person that asks for the A.I. to
create this, or does the A.I. platform actually have a responsibility because they are actually creating the image?
[14:45:00]
Now, if you look at, for example, what's happening in the U.K., Ofcom is investigating this, more about the social media platform X for sharing
these, not as much about Grok. Now, Indonesia and Malaysia, they're banning Grok specifically and not the social media platform X. And actually, what's
interesting is that in the U.K., a law that's going to make it a criminal offense to create a request, the creation of one of these images, is
actually being pushed up this week, I think as a result of all this controversy over Grok. And a big question, I think, for all these
investigators around the world is about the guardrails that may or may not exist in these companies to prevent such a thing from happening.
Now, Elon Musk has complained about this, saying, you know, these regulators are looking into X just because of free speech, because they
don't like him. You can create these types of images on ChatGPT or anything like that or Photoshop. And in some cases that might be true, but a lot of
these other A.I. models, they have way more guardrails to prevent this from happening.
And also, none of these other models are integrated into a social media platform like Grok is, because imagine you post a picture of your kid on X
saying, hey, we went to the park today. Someone responds, hey, Grok, take off their clothes, and the bot does that, that is horrifying. And that's
why I think you're seeing this type of outrage from so many of these government regulators and from everyday people.
Now, as you noted, my reporting is that in the weeks leading up to this latest controversy, there was a meeting at xAI where Elon Musk actually
pushed back on some of these guardrails that he thought were too heavy handed when it come -- when it comes to Grok's Imagine image generating
tool.
And then right around that same time, three key staffers on xAI's already very small safety team, they left the company, including the head of
product safety, who one of my sources told me that would have been the exact type of person that would have prevented this from happening. And I
should note, xAI did not respond to my request for comments on my reporting.
SOARES: I know you'll stay across this for us. Hadas Gold there in New York. Thanks, Hadas.
And still to come right here on the show, a look at the Golden Globe, see who took home the film, TV and first ever podcast trophies. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, the awards season is in full swing in Hollywood. On Sunday, the Golden Globes awarded both familiar faces as well as rising stars. "One
Battle After Another" took home four Golden Globes, including one for the best comedy film. And Netflix's K-pop "Demon Hunters" had its golden
moment, taking home two awards for best original song and best animated motion pictures. My kids would be very proud. Stephanie Elam has the
highlights.
[14:50:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JULIA ROBERTS, ACTRESS: And the winner is "One Battle After Another."
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): A huge night for "One Battle After Another," winning four awards, including Best Musical or Comedy, but
not for star Leonardo DiCaprio. Instead --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Timothee Chalamet.
ELAM (voiceover): -- Timothee Chalamet topped industry titan's Leo and George Clooney for his role in "Marty Supreme."
TIMOTHEE CHALAMET, BEST ACTOR, "MARTY SUPREME": If you would have told me when I was 19 years old, I'd be thanking Mr. Wonderful from "Shark Tank."
ELAM (voiceover): Another fresh face, Teyana Taylor, bringing the emotion.
TEYANA TAYLOR, SUPPORTING ACTRESS, "ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER": I almost didn't even write a speech because I didn't think I was --
ELAM (voiceover): She won best female actor in a supporting role for "One Battle After Another."
TAYLOR: To my brown sisters and little brown girls watching tonight, we belong in every room we walked into. Our voices matter.
QUEEN LATIFAH, RAPPER, SONGWRITER: "The Pitt"
ELAM (voiceover): "The Pitt" won top TV drama. An unofficial E.R. reunion as star Noah Wylie hugged George Clooney.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody wants to see George and Noah together again in the E.R.
JEAN SMART, BEST PERFORMANCE BY A FEMALE ACTOR IN A TELEVISION SERIES: I said my rant on the red carpet, so I won't do it here.
ELAM (voiceover): Jean Smart, who wore a "Be Good" pin in honor of Renee Good, shot by ICE in Minneapolis, called for compassion after her win for
"Hacks."
SMART: I think everybody in their hearts knows what the right thing is to do, so let's do the right thing.
NIKKI GLASER, COMEDIAN AND ACTOR: Best editing goes to the Justice Department.
ELAM (voice-over): Host Nikki Glaser took on the headlines, including Jeffrey Epstein.
GLASER: There's so many A-listers, and by A- listers I do mean people who are on A-lists that has been heavily redacted.
ELAM (voice-over): And while on CBS, Glaser roasted the network for controversy over new leadership at CBS News.
GLASER: CBS News, America's newest place to see BS News.
ELAM (voice-over): But Glaser mostly stuck to roasting the stars, with the famously private DiCaprio bearing the brunt.
GLASER: The most in-depth interview you've ever given was in Teen Beat magazine in 1991. Is your favorite food still pasta, pasta, and more pasta?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Well, one lady was there was Stephanie Elam, who looked glorious and beautiful on the red carpet. She joins us now. Stephanie, great to see
you. Look, I'm going to be completely transparent with you and our viewers. I haven't seen any, any of those that won. That says more probably about my
own life and so busy with kids than anything else.
But look, I know there were big surprises of the night. I can tell you that from my team, who were like, how can't believe he won. Talk us through the
big surprises of the night.
ELAM (on camera): Yes. Well, first of all, thank you. And I was about to say, sure sign that you have children when you haven't seen a lot of these
movies that are out because they are way above their rating and not for children, for sure, right. So, that's a huge part of it.
But obviously, think about this. When you look at who's voting for the Golden Globes, it is international entertainment journalists who are
voting. So, a lot of times you see movies win or actors win that may not have the same amount of traction here in the United States. And I think
that was the case for last night. But there was one movie that did really well, and that was "One Battle After Another." We could just see that
people really were behind that movie. They were loving it. They're loving the momentum it has.
And then the other one was "Adolescence," which I know it seems like that shows been around for a really long time.
SOARES: Yes.
ELAM: But it's still winning awards and including Owen Cooper, who is the young star of that limited series, which also won in that category as well.
So, those were the big ones that we saw really have a lot of momentum behind them. And we may see some of that continue for "One Battle After
Another" heading into Oscars. But obviously, it could be a little bit different when we start to look at the American voting pool.
SOARES: Yes. And I know the voting and send the voting for the Oscars is open today. On that point there, Stephanie, how much is that? How -- are
these was like a bellwether for the Oscars? I'm thinking "Hamnet," who did a pretty low budget movie, right? That did pretty well.
ELAM: "Hamnet" has some intense and beautiful acting in it. And I think that's a part, a huge part of why you're going to see it have a very good
run. And I expect it will have a good run as you get to the Oscars as well.
So, this is the thing. You will see some overlap. I'm not saying it's not completely giving you an idea of what's going to happen, but you're
definitely going to see some overlap. Now, the other thing is, is that you have the actor awards used to be known as the SAG Awards. But this is
actors voting on actors. And so, when we see that award show, seeing what they think, who they think were the best of the year last year. And so,
then again, because you're looking through the actor's lens, it could have a different outcome there, too.
SOARES: And there was a new category podcast, which was very exciting. Talk us through that.
ELAM: Yes. A new -- one of the new categories in the Golden Globes this year. A lot of people like, why, why are we doing this? But the first one
out the gate was won by Amy Poehler for a "Good Hang." Her podcast, which is light and fun and just leaves you feeling good as she interviews a lot
of other funny people that she talks to. And so, a lot of people watch these podcasts, too. That's the other thing to keep in mind.
I always feel like it's interesting because you think about just listening to it. But a lot of people are also watching it on, say, YouTube. So, she
won out the gate.
[14:55:00]
And there were others. Dax Shepard, "Call Her Daddy." The Mel Robbins podcast, "SmartLess" and "Up First." And I did talk to Mel Robbins on the
carpet. She was really thrilled to be there, to be nominated and just had a good message that for people who think that they're already too old. She
didn't launch this podcast until I believe she said her 54th birthday. And look at where she is now.
SOARES: I do like Amy Poehler's podcast. That's one thing. Here we go. I've got time for a little.
ELAM: It's good.
SOARES: There you go. Right. It's very good. Very funny. Great guests. Steph, thank you very much. Stephanie there. Great to see you, Stephanie.
ELAM: Good to see you.
SOARES: Thank you. Now, Ai, a chimpanzee known for her amazing cognitive skills has died in Japan at the age of 49. She was born in Western Africa
and arrived at Kyoto University Center for the Evolutionary Origins of Human Behavior in 1977. She became the namesake of the I project, which was
a research program into the chimpanzee mind. At just 18 months old, she was given a special keyboard linked to a computer. By five, she could name the
number, color and object of 300 types of samples. She also enjoyed drawing and painting without needing food rewards. Absolutely amazing.
That does it for us tonight. Do stay right here. "What We Know" with my colleague Max Foster is up next. Have a wonderful day. I shall see you
tomorrow. Bye-bye.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
