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Isa Soares Tonight
Trump Fires U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi; Trump Threatens to Bomb Iran to "Stone Age"; Commission Approves Trump's White House Expansion; Pope Leo Leads First Holy Thursday Celebrations as Pontiff. President Trump Fires Attorney General Pam Bondi; A Group of Epstein Survivors File Class Action Lawsuit Against the Justice Department and Google Over the Release of Victim-Identifying Information; Trump Urges Iran to Make a Deal After Bridge Strike that Killed At Least 8 and Injured 95. Aired 2:00-3p ET
Aired April 02, 2026 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
PAULA NEWTON, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: Hello, and a very warm welcome, I am Paula Newton in for Isa Soares. Tonight, breaking news this hour. U.S.
Attorney General Pam Bondi is ousted by President Donald Trump.
Now, the President himself made the news -- broke the news, calling her a patriot, but nonetheless, she was fired. Trump has been speaking recently
about his decision and why he's making that decision.
We're also told Mr. Trump has been frustrated with Bondi's work on multiple fronts, in particular, her handling, of course, of those Jeffrey Epstein
files. Now, last week, a group of Epstein survivors filed a class action lawsuit against the Justice Department and Google over the release of
victim-identifying information.
Kevin Liptak is standing by for us with what is extraordinary news nonetheless. Now, look, I know that this had been rumored, at least, for a
couple of days, but so significant that someone that was expected to be so loyal to the President in terms of carrying out his so-called retribution
campaign, is now fired.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: And was loyal to the President. You know, everything that the President seemed to want her to
do, she did try to execute. You know, she brought, again, a prosecution against James Comey, the former FBI director, against Letitia James; the
New York Attorney General.
Now, the prosecutions failed. But that's not to say she didn't attempt it, which is what I think makes this firing so extraordinary. You really
couldn't picture an Attorney General who was more professionally loyal to President Trump or personally loyal to President Trump.
You know, when you drive past the Justice Department in Washington these days, there's two giant banners with President Trump's face on them. And
so, as the President now dismisses her because she was unable to go as far as he wanted in carrying out these prosecutions against people he perceives
as his political enemies.
I think gives you a sense of where the President's head is at in some ways. Now, this firing, as you said, had been rumored for quite a long time.
Bondi did appear yesterday with the President. They traveled together to the Supreme Court for those oral arguments.
There had been, I think, an idea that perhaps she was trying to plead her case with the President over the last several days. But clearly, the
President had other things in mind and now says that she will be going to a job in the private sector, and will be replaced on an interim basis by Todd
Blanche; who is the number two at the Justice Department, the Deputy Attorney General.
And is also a former criminal defense attorney of President Trump's. Also, someone who is very loyal to the President. But, you know, if she lost her
job because she wasn't carrying out some of the President's wishes, it's -- I think, very difficult to see how anyone who will replace her.
And we don't know who that will be in a permanent basis, how they will be any more successful. You know, these prosecutions failed because the grand
juries weren't there. You know, the evidence and the facts weren't necessarily there to carry out some of what the President had wanted her to
do.
And so, it's difficult to imagine how anyone who comes into the job now will be any more successful. But clearly, the President is interested in
testing that out and seeing who he can come up with. You know, the President for so long in this term had been very reluctant to fire people
who he had lost confidence in.
He had been scarred in some ways by the very chaotic first go-around during his first administration when these firings were coming very quickly. He
seems to have shifted his posture somewhat. You know, that firing of Kristi Noem a few weeks ago, I think, in his mind, went more smoothly than he
imagined.
Her successor, Markwayne Mullin was confirmed fairly quickly to be the Homeland Security Secretary. I don't think a confirmation process for
attorney general is going to go quite as smoothly this time around.
There are a lot of concerns among members in Congress about the politicization of the Justice Department. And so, it is difficult, I think,
to think of someone who will be confirmed very smoothly, but that will be a process that will be happening very shortly here.
[14:05:00]
NEWTON: Yes, but likely, given the makeup right now and the political atmosphere, probably a lot higher bar to cover here for the President than
was Pam Bondi's confirmation. Kevin Liptak, really grateful to you for bringing us this breaking news.
Now, for now, Bondi's deputy, Todd Blanche will be serving as the interim head of the Justice Department. Moments ago on X, Blanche thanked the
President for his promotion. He also paid tribute though, to his predecessor.
We want to discuss all of this with Evan Perez live from Washington. Given how closely you've been following this Justice Department and others, Evan,
I want to deal first with the Justice Department. That was, right?
Pam Bondi, so much that went wrong here in terms of her Justice Department, but really a legacy unto itself, isn't it? It was a complete departure from
what we've seen before.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Paula, I think you're talking to me now, right? We're having a little bit --
NEWTON: Yes --
PEREZ: Of an audio. We're having a little bit --
NEWTON: Yes, and you can hear me, Evan, yes, all good --
PEREZ: Yes, I can now hear you, I wasn't -- I didn't hear most of your question, but I think you're asking about Pam Bondi's tenure. And, you
know, I think to what Kevin was just describing, it is hard to understand how -- what the President's game plan here is.
Because, you know, we've been hearing for a couple of months now that he was considering pushing her out back in January. We talked to sources about
this, and then it revved up again this week.
And one of the things that I think everybody comes back to is that, it's hard to see who he can pick, who is going to be as pliant and as malleable
as the current attorney general or the just fired attorney general in this job.
You know, a lot of the problems for the department and this tenure that she's had, the problems really were, you know, first, you know, the Epstein
files debacle was of her own making.
She's the one that orchestrated this event back in February of 2025, where she brought MAGA influencers to the White House and said they were getting
all these Epstein files, which turned out to be things that had been -- that had been public for years.
And she's never been able to get out from under that. The bigger problem for her is that the President believes that some of his enemies, some of
his political enemies, should be prosecuted, and they haven't been able to get that done.
But that's not because of anything she's doing or her lack of effort, it's all because, you know, a lot of them, the cases aren't very good. There's
not much evidence to support the idea of crimes. And so, that's been the issue.
And in certain cases, you have grand juries and juries here in the United States that have rejected some of these cases. So, that's part of the
problem that I don't see how that is fixed by changing the person at the top of the Justice Department. Paula.
NEWTON: Well, fixed in terms of what the President believes is fixed. I mean, as you pointed out to us many times, Evan, this is completely
unorthodox for any Justice Department, pretty much that we've seen in American history.
So, that gives us now, although, he is acting now is -- Todd Blanche, he is -- was, I should say, the President's personal --
PEREZ: Right --
NEWTON: Attorney. And you've pointed out that, look, he makes no bones about it. He will continue on this retribution campaign, and was putting a
lot of that into operation under Pam Bondi.
PEREZ: Exactly. And if you -- if you're Todd Blanche, you cannot be resting easy right now, because a lot of the problems -- a lot of the
President's dissatisfaction with the way this has gone at the Justice Department is not just about Pam Bondi.
It's also about Todd Blanche, because he is the person who runs the department day-to-day. That job is the job that is required to pull all the
levers, and he is in touch with all of these people who are supposed to be carrying out the retribution agenda, and it is failing.
They have been flailing for the past year on this. Now, the one thing that he's been able to do is that they've been able to fire hundreds of people
who are inside the department. Anyone who touched January 6th cases, anybody who touched the case against the President for hoarding classified
documents at Mar-a-Lago, all of those people pretty much have been fired.
And Blanche at the recent CPAC Convention, the conservative groups convention in Las Vegas -- in -- sorry, in Texas just a few days ago, he
boasted that all of those people are gone. And that is so astonishing.
You know, you and I, you know, we've talked over the years about covering the Justice Department issues. And I've never heard a deputy attorney
general essentially boast about firing people simply because they worked on cases that the President of the United States does not like.
That had to do with some of the alleged crimes involving the President of the United States. And so, that's one of the things that I think is going
to be -- we're going to closely watch, is how long does Todd Blanche survive this?
[14:10:00]
Because right now, he's there because he's the natural person, he's the deputy attorney general. And he's the only one that knows where everything
is right now. But you know, as soon as someone -- as soon as Trump can find someone that he thinks is going to do everything that he wants, all of his
bidding, then I think it is possible.
Todd Blanche is also -- has to watch his back and how long he can survive, because the problems are not going to go away. I don't see -- I don't see
juries in the United States changing their approach to how the Justice Department is doing these cases, simply because you have another name on
the fifth floor of the Justice Department.
NEWTON: Yes, and perhaps, her -- what the President is looking for now, though, is the loyalty. And again, we have to underscore he was the
President's personal attorney --
PEREZ: Exactly --
NEWTON: Through so many -- so much of his legal woes before he took office. Again, Evan, really grateful to you to jump on this breaking news
for us --
PEREZ: Sure --
NEWTON: Now, Democrats on the House Oversight Committee say Pam Bondi will still have to testify about her role in the release of the Epstein files. A
statement from the top Democrat on that committee says, "she will not escape accountability and remains legally obligated to appear before our
committee under oath."
My next guest is a political science professor at Brown University, Corey Brettschneider joins us now from New York. I'm not sure what they taught
you in law school, but probably not this about a Justice Department.
And I'm wondering now if you were Pam Bondi's lawyer, that you wouldn't be asking the President for a pardon as soon as possible. Look, can you just
contextualize all of this for us, given the Justice Department that you have seen that has crossed so many lines.
And I want to be clear here in terms of political influence, something that was never seen before either in a Republican or a Democratic
administration.
COREY BRETTSCHNEIDER, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, BROWN UNIVERSITY: Yes, certainly, a political influence, but something much worse and
pernicious, which is that this President regards the Justice Department as his personal revenge tool as a lot of your reporting is already revealed.
And I'll just expand on that. The job of the attorney general is they are the chief law enforcement officer of the United States, and they're charged
with enforcing the law, not doing the bidding of an individual.
And what Pam Bondi turned this Justice Department into, and she used a lot of weaknesses. A lot of this was done through norms, the independence of
the Department of Justice. And she took that weakness and started to use it as a tool for the President's worst instincts.
And so, let's talk about why the Justice Department has been used for the past year to really shut down American democracy rather than protect it.
The first thing is going after political opponents. I mean, that's not in the charge of the law or of the oath of office of the attorney general of
the President.
And yet, that's what she did in the James case, in the Letitia James case and the James Comey case, defying court orders. When Judge Boasberg ordered
planes turned back in the Abrego Garcia case, her attorneys disregarded it.
And rather than, you know, issue disciplinary proceedings against them, she then went after the judge. So, really, I've been talking on my podcast,
"The Oath and the Office", about the idea of the self-coup, using the presidency to destroy the other branches. And this has been the device, the
attorney general, that he's used to do just that.
NEWTON: You know, in terms of what you're speaking of, Corey, and I really want you to get to the heart of this, because some people listening will
say, well, that's hyper partisan, of Corey, to be saying this about what Bondi did and the Justice Department.
But can you really define for our audience how out of the norm it is, and as you describe it, these are institution busting things in terms of legal
actions that this Attorney General took time and again.
BRETTSCHNEIDER: Yes, I mean, let's just go over the two examples and show why it's not a question of being partisan or not. The shutting down your
political opponents and seeking to imprison them, that's not enforcing the law in the sense of justice or equality.
That is a President using the tool of the law as a hammer. I think to go back to -- you know, I said the podcast name, "The Oath and the Office",
the President takes an oath, and that oath is required by Article 2 of the constitution to preserve, protect and defend the constitution, defend the
law and enforce it.
And when you have a President who is looking for loyalty over people who have obligation to the law, that winds up being the opposite. That's not a
partisan idea. It's one that goes back to George Washington, who highlighted the oath in his second inaugural.
And what this President is doing, both in shutting down political opponents, just the two examples we've taken. But also, I can't stress how
much of a violation of the Office of the Attorney General is when the Department of Justice lawyers are defying a judge who said, just to go back
to the case, he was told, turn those planes around.
[14:15:00]
Don't send these people to the prison in El Salvador that's been shut -- that's been set up. And rather than listen, they just defied it. And then,
you know, you might think, OK, it was a mistake. They didn't mean to do it. They'd be an apology afterwards.
That would be a moment in which we could say, OK, there's some miscommunication between the court and the Department of Justice. No, she
dug in and attacked the judge. So, that's why the phrase, "self-coup" might sound like hyperbole. I understand it.
It has happened before in American history, we've seen Presidents like Nixon, like John Adams shut down political opponents, but it is nonetheless
an extremely dangerous moment for this country. If I had to compare her, I think she is one of the worst attorneys general, the closest competitor, is
Attorney General Mitchell who was imprisoned for his crimes.
NEWTON: Yes, and to give context to what you're saying in terms of what happened with the judges, those were judges that were appointed in some by
Trump himself, and still made it clear that the Justice Department was defying their orders.
Corey, we'll have to leave it there for now. But of course, there will be very interesting podcasts that you have to come as we have both the acting
attorney general now, but also to see who he nominates next. Really grateful to you, thanks so much.
BRETTSCHNEIDER: Pleasure as always. Thank you.
NEWTON: Now, turning to Iran. Iranian media says it was a U.S. or Israeli strike that took down a major bridge just outside of Tehran. There are
reports at least two people were killed. CNN reached out to U.S. Central Command for comment.
Now, the IDF says it was not aware of an Israeli strike on the bridge. A short time ago, President Trump posted video of the aftermath, and said,
"much more to follow". He warned Iran that it should make a deal before it's too late.
Now, in his address Wednesday, President Trump didn't mention any off-ramp, vaguely referring to another 2 to 3-week time frame to end American
involvement in this conflict. Also missing from the speech, a plan to reopen the critical Strait of Hormuz.
Now, the President once again offered mixed messages, saying the war is nearly over, yet vowing to ramp-up the U.S. military operation. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are going to finish the job, and we're going to finish it very fast. We're getting very close.
Everyone is talking about it. And tonight, I'm pleased to say that these core strategic objectives are nearing completion.
We are going to hit them extremely hard over the next 2 to 3 weeks. We are going to bring them back to the stone ages where they belong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Now, what U.S. President Donald Trump didn't say in his prime-time address sent oil prices soaring, and U.S. markets on yet another roller-
coaster ride. I dare say we're all getting used to it now, like oil is up with the price of WTI reaching $111 a barrel.
That's up, as you can see, better than 11 percent. Now, U.S. stocks also having a very volatile day. The Dow earlier rebounding more than 600
points, then turning south again. Vanessa Yurkevich is going to try and break this all down for us.
I mean, Vanessa, I was kind of confused in the sense of looking at the market today. I'm not exactly sure what brought them back because they are
-- they're down, but not as much as they had been. Still, so many of the signals are flashing crisis, and yet, the market is like, we don't want to
believe it. We don't want to --
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes --
NEWTON: Believe that it's going to get worse than this.
YURKEVICH: Yes, and I have spoken to investors over the last month who very much believe that the market is not reacting in accordance with what's
really going on. But these are investors who are constantly trying to look forward, and they're sort of on this ride believing or hoping that there's
an end in sight to this war.
But ultimately, they have to just plan for the future, and the future coming up right now is earnings in the month of April from major companies.
That is why you saw the Dow down 600 points earlier this morning when it opened, because of the nerves coming out of the President's speech, not
hearing about an off-ramp, but then trying to turn their attention to other things.
And that's why you see the Dow recovering slightly, now down just about 143 points. But oil markets as you mentioned, I mean they are still hovering
above $110 a barrel, up 10 percent in the last day since hearing from the President.
And of course, that trickles right on down to gas prices. The national average here in the U.S., $4.08 a gallon, that's up 10 cents in just the
last week, up over a dollar over the last month. But we're also, Paula, watching jet fuel prices.
This is because it's so critical to airlines. There's a line graph that I can hopefully show you here, just to show how much they've doubled. So, in
the beginning of the year, you had prices sitting closer to about a $100 a barrel.
Now, it's up to $200 a barrel. And what that ultimately means for the airlines paying these prices is that's also double. So, they were paying
about $4.24 a gallon -- excuse me, they were paying$1.88 a gallon at the beginning of the year.
[14:20:00]
And now they're paying $4.24 a gallon, so, that is a big jump for them. But of course, the question is, are consumers going to have to start to pick up
that tab? Well, as of right now, airline fares have not jumped.
But there have been some warnings from airlines. JetBlue saying that they're going to have to raise baggage fees by upwards of $9. United saying
that because of these increases in jet fuel prices, fares could rise 20 percent.
And then Delta's CEO saying that jet fuel prices are costing the company $400 million. They haven't had to transfer that to customers because of
some stronger earnings. However, the concern is that ultimately, during this upcoming busy travel season that will affect consumers.
Demand has really been steady with airlines amidst all of this volatility. But of course, what we've been focusing on is oil and gas prices at the
pump. But the next kind of frontier that folks are focusing on is, what is this going to mean for airlines? And of course, those of us traveling this
Summer. Paula.
NEWTON: Yes, and should note here, that it's lasted about a month so far. The longer it lasts, the more inevitable it's going to --
YURKEVICH: Yes --
NEWTON: Be, that we're all going to face higher prices on those airline tickets and beyond. Vanessa Yurkevich, thanks so much, appreciate it.
YURKEVICH: Thank you.
NEWTON: Now, up next for us, another blast of the engines. A day after leaving the ground, the Artemis II crew prepares for the point of no return
where they really head toward the moon. We'll have that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: The four astronauts heading to the moon are on day two of their journey. They have a critical task ahead of them later today, performing
the translunar injection burn. Now, I know we have that graphic, but we're going to explain.
It's the last major engine firing of the mission, and get this, the point of no return, blasting the ship out of earth's orbit and towards the moon.
Now, today's other activity, yes, a workout. The crew will begin using the flywheel exercise device.
It is similar to a rowing machine and allows the crew to do aerobics and resistance work while in the weightlessness of space. I'm not sure it looks
all that fun, but OK. Our Ed Lavandera is at the Johnson Space Center in Houston.
Ed, great to see you, great to have you there. I have to say, the wellness program for the foursome is nearly as fascinating as the science.
[14:25:00]
I actually looked at the menu, I want to report, there's maple syrup out there as well. But if you can help us, get right back into the science of
this mission, because what's coming up is pretty crucial, right?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, right. So, what is happening here over the course of the next 7 or 8 hours is really important
because as you mentioned, you have this burn, which will happen close to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time tonight.
And based on that, and everything that's leading up to that will determine whether or not this mission will continue on to the moon. So, remember,
this is a test mission. This crew is basically making sure that this capsule can sustain them and future crews.
And they have a long checklist of things that they want to make sure are working properly, from everything to that workout machine, to the toilet,
which had a problem very early on after the -- after the launch and the fault sensor light came on, and they had to work through that.
But apparently, everything is squared away there. So, I mean, this is really like foundational stuff of this mission to make sure it all works
properly.
And that's one of the reasons why they have been orbiting the earth, or they will have orbited the earth twice to make sure those systems, because
once that injection burn comes here later tonight, then this spacecraft is on its way to the moon 252,000 miles away.
And the only way back is to circum-navigate the moon and then come back because they are using the force of the earth's gravity and the pull of the
moon and all of that physics stuff that you and I are not smart enough to fully understand, but can talk about nicely is what will essentially bring
them back.
So, they are going to be running through all sorts of tests to make sure that they are fully prepared to be able to do that. Because at some point
here this afternoon, they are going to make the final call about whether or not the Orion spacecraft is going to the moon or not.
NEWTON: And the enthusiasm around this is kind of caught some by surprise, but there is a lot of enthusiasm, right? I mean, it seems to be that
anything that NASA can put out on this -- on this mission, people are really into it.
LAVANDERA: You know, yes, we were at a watch party here just next door at the visitor's center, where some 1,300 people gathered. These are people
who live in this community around the Johnson Space Center.
So many people remember the Apollo missions, the Gemini missions, the golden era of space travel, when men were first walking on the moon for the
first time. And I was also here a little more than ten years ago when the last space shuttle landed.
And we were watching from Mission Control, I remember the sadness in that room where it wasn't sure exactly what the NASA space program was going to
look like in the future. So, this moment is incredibly emotional for people.
And as you walk around, you know, this campus, it's -- the Johnson Space Center, you walk around here, you think about this is where the astronauts
train. This is where the -- all the crews, all the -- so much of the work has been done to get this crew into outer space.
And you really feel the presence of those previous astronauts that have come and kind of laid the foundation for all of that. And I think so many
people who are part of this Artemis team, you know, are very cognizant of that and are just so emotional that this moment has -- finally here.
But, you know, they're knee deep in all of this right now. They are so focused on what is happening and what they need to do over the next ten
days, that, that kind of, I think, clarity about what this, the emotion of this moment probably won't sink in until day 11, when they can all rest a
little bit easy, making sure that this crew gets back safely. But it is definitely an intense and emotional moment for everyone involved.
NEWTON: Yes, I was listening to the astronauts themselves in the weeks prior, and everyone should remember, so many of them talked about being
inspired by the space missions that came before. So, you really get a sense that those five-year-olds and eight-year-olds are out there looking at the
sky, getting some ideas about what they can do next.
Ed Lavandera for us at the Johnson Space Center. Thanks so much. Now, still to come for us tonight, more than 40 countries met virtually today to try
and weigh those options for reopening the Strait of Hormuz. But how successful could a diplomatic solution be? We'll have that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:00]
NEWTON: So, updating our top story this hour, U.S. President Donald Trump has fired Attorney General Pam Bondi. The two were seen together just
yesterday during the president's visit to the Supreme Court. Her deputy AG, Todd Blanche, will take over on an interim basis. Bondi is now the second
Trump cabinet member to be removed in less than a month.
At this point in time, we want to welcome our Tom Nichols. He is staff writer for The Atlantic. He's also the author of "Our Own Worst Enemy: The
Assault from Within on Modern Democracy." And given what just went down over the last few hours, listen, we're happy to have you. And I do want you
to talk about this Justice Department.
The Justice Department, as America has never seen it, perhaps in modern times. Some have reminded me that historically that may not be true. You
know more than I. But please talk to us about the fact that Bondi may be gone. But what do you believe Trump's Justice Department will look like,
given he said he wants it to be his retribution?
TOM NICHOLS, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC AND AUTHOR, "OUR OWN WORST ENEMY": And Donald Trump doesn't think that the Justice Department works for the
United States. Donald Trump thinks the Justice Department is his own kind of private boutique law firm that's meant to pursue his grudges and punish
his enemies. Bondi tried to do that.
I think Trump doesn't understand that no matter who he puts in this job, they're going to face the same kind of defeats that Pam Bondi faced,
because this is still a liberal constitutional democracy. And judges simply don't obey the orders of attorneys general or presidents. But I think Trump
is lashing out at a lot of people. Bondi just happened to be at the top of the list. And, you know, probably not the last of these firings. Started
with Kristi Noem. Now, it's gone to Pam Bondi.
Donald Trump's frustrated. His numbers are tanking. Nothing really is going his way in terms of national policy. And when that happens, as we know from
his previous terms, he starts to get angry and fire people.
NEWTON: Do you think it's possible that this is another distraction from the distraction? I mean, I'm going to talk to you in a moment just about
the Iran war and the Trump speech last night. But I mean, ironic, right? He seemed to wanting -- he said himself, he wanted to take the attention off
the Epstein files months ago. And here we are.
NICHOLS: Yes. Donald Trump's never really understood that constantly complaining about the Epstein files keeps the Epstein files front and
center. But he did this to himself. He campaigned on this and swore that all these files would be released. And then he kind of dumped that on Pam
Bondi, who got caught between the president's humiliation and Congress passing a law, a Republican Congress passing a law that these files had to
be released.
[14:35:00]
And so, they have been released. And it has been a tremendous embarrassment for him. And it probably will get worse.
But Trump simply doesn't understand that the American government is not a private corporation. He doesn't own it. And simply ordering things doesn't
then make them happen. And I suspect his next attorney general will be no more successful, but probably will be a little better at managing Trump,
managing up, so to speak, so that Trump, you know, doesn't spread the blame around more. Bondi was the first one. She was there at the wrong place at
the wrong time. And, you know, sooner or later, Trump loses faith with everyone and he works with and starts firing them.
NEWTON: So, Tom, turning to the main issue in front of the American people right now and beyond, quite frankly, the war in Iran. So, about last night,
Tom, you have thoughts. Specifically, you said the president seems lost. Perhaps he should have stayed off the podium for a bit longer rather than
display how adrift he is. You believe that. You believe he's lost his grip on what this war was about and how to end it?
NICHOLS: Oh, yes. And I think one of the reasons that he has hesitated to go in front of the cameras or that his people have hesitated to put him out
there is because I think they were concerned about exactly this kind of a disastrous performance. I mean, it was 19 minutes that left him worse off
than if he had said nothing.
He looked tired. He was disjointed. His explanations were all over the place. He really said nothing new. And even conservative observers, even
people inclined to be more supportive of the president, kind of had to shrug and say, not great.
But if his job -- if he thought his job was to reassure the American people and kind of stiffen their spines for a few more weeks of war, this didn't
do it. And in fact, he was kind of dismissive.
NEWTON: Yes, and that was the point, right? I was listening to some conservative commentators before the speech, and they made it clear
Americans want to hear from him. But then they heard from him and they didn't get what they wanted, namely, you know, when is this going to be
over?
I do want to play for you, you know, something the president said yesterday that was supposed to be behind closed doors, but then some video of it did
leak out. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I said to Russell, don't send any money for daycare because the United States can't take care of daycare. That has to
be up to a state. We can't take care of daycare. We're a big country. We have 50 states. We have all these other people. We're fighting wars. We
can't take care of daycare. Medicaid, Medicare, all these individual things. They can do it on a state basis. You can't do it on a federal. We
have to take care of one thing, military protection. We have to guard the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Tom, I'm wondering, even MAGA supporters who thought this was about America first, clearly the president's not talking about Americans
first here.
NICHOLS: No. And I mean, if the Democrats have an ounce of sense, they'll play that in heavy rotation every 10 minutes going into the November
election because it's a betrayal, not only of the president's duty, which is to be the president of all of the American people, but it's a betrayal
of his base. He specifically ran on the opposite of everything he just said, which is we're going to take care of Americans. We're going to look
after America first. We're not going to blunder in any more of these stupid foreign wars that are going to cost so much money and, you know, eat up all
of our attention.
And instead, you know, when he thinks no one's watching, apparently, or when the White House thought it wouldn't get out, he says, we can't do
anything for people. We have to -- you know, everything has to go to the military and for war. This is the same accusation that Trump himself made
against all of his predecessors. And he swore he wasn't going to be like this. And yet here we are.
And I think, you know, those of us who warned about Trump always warned that it was going to go this way. But I think the shock to his own
supporters is probably greater than to anybody else in the country.
NEWTON: Yes, we have certainly started to hear from some of that, some of that dismay from so many parts of the United States. Tom Nichols, thanks so
much for being with us. Appreciate it.
NICHOLS: Thank you.
NEWTON: Now, Haran says it is drafting a protocol with Oman to monitor maritime traffic through the Strait of Hormuz. Now, the crucial waterway,
as you know, has been effectively throttled by Tehran and the U.S.-Israeli war with that country. A senior Iranian foreign ministry official argues
that even in peacetime, ship passages should happen under the supervision and coordination of coastal states.
[14:40:00]
This after dozens of countries discussed joint action to try and reopen the Strait of Hormuz at a virtual meeting hosted by the U.K. The U.S. did not
attend that summit. Many other countries did. As you can see it virtually there.
CNN's Anna Cooban was following all of it for us. And I think what most people are wondering is what happened concretely here, especially since
we're still right in the middle of this conflict.
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMIC REPORTER: Well, Paula, these countries came together. Very significantly, the U.S. was not present here.
And they really came to the sort of agreement they were going to continue to put diplomatic pressure on Iran. They completely rejected the idea of
any sort of toll system being introduced.
They also explored the idea of using economic sanctions as a way to pressure Iran if Iran keeps the Strait closed, even after the conflict
ends. And also promised to work with the International Maritime Organization to try and get out the 2,000 ships, the 20,000 seafarers that
are currently stuck in the Persian Gulf.
But I think this -- you know, the fact that this meeting even happened, Paula, I think is interesting because, you know, many countries that aren't
involved in this conflict have been very wary of getting involved militarily or just putting their naval vessels in the region. But now I
think they're becoming increasingly aware of the reality that this conflict may not end very soon. And they're going to need to do something because
now we're seeing President Trump talk about potentially resolving this conflict without reopening that Strait of Hormuz.
So, an interesting meeting today. Nothing concrete is going to be done yet. But I think just the fact that it's happened, Paula, is pretty interesting.
NEWTON: Yes, as you said, it is they -- them realizing that they will need to get involved, even if that happens after this conflict is resolved one
way or the other. Anna Cooban for us, thanks for following that.
Still to come for us tonight, a vote in Washington, D.C. on the future of the White House's ballroom construction. We'll tell you the results that
just came up. We'll tell you the results that just came up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: So, the National Capital Planning Commission has approved U.S. President Donald Trump's $400 million White House ballroom build. The board
was in fact stacked with Trump loyalists who voted in favor of the measure. But what comes next is unclear. The East Wing project hit a hurdle when a
federal judge ordered the construction to stop earlier this week.
Now, Betsy Klein has been following all of this for us. I know it's been difficult to kind of follow all of this as you've got the construction
still in some way, shape or form ongoing at the White House. But what does happen now? I mean, is the Trump administration clear that they're going to
win this court case?
[14:45:00]
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: It's a great question. And it still is a little bit up in the air right now. But the National Capital
Planning Commission, this is that key commission that oversees planning for federal land and buildings, has just voted to approve President Trump's
sprawling ballroom project.
And even though this commission received more than 32,000 comments from the public, most of them negative, they did vote to approve it a few moments
ago. And that is because the commission has been stacked with a number of Trump allies. Among some of the concerns that we heard from experts were
issues with the scale and scope of this ballroom project compared to the rest of the White House, along with the introduction of Corinthian columns,
the asymmetry of the White House South Lawn driveway, as well as the way this process unfolded so quickly.
And we heard just that from D.C. City Council member Phil Mendelson. He was the only starkly negative comment during this meeting today. And he said at
one point, very starkly, quote, "I'm trying to be nice here. It's just too large." He ultimately was the only member of this commission who voted no.
And this ballroom has been on the fast track since President Trump demolished the East Wing back in October. He has maintained that this
project isn't subject to any oversight or scrutiny. And he has said it should be ready by summer 2028, just a few months before he leaves office.
Now, today's vote has cleared a key hurdle, but there's a lot of uncertainty ahead. And that is because a federal judge threw a wrench in
these plans as he ruled earlier this week that the ballroom construction must be halted until this project gets congressional authorization.
So, in the immediate next two weeks, this judge told the White House that any above-ground construction that takes place must be reversible. And it's
possible that a higher court might overturn his decision. So, it's still unclear whether the legal wrangling is going to halt this construction or
if the Trump administration lawyers can convince another court to let it proceed.
But for now, all of this is in a bit of a holding pattern. President Trump, for his part, has been so deeply involved in this process. And we saw him
weigh in on it over the weekend on Air Force One. He told reporters he's so busy, he's fighting wars and other things. But this project, he says, is
very important.
NEWTON: So, Betsy, I don't have a lot of time left, but I know you also follow the first lady, Melania Trump, very carefully. You know, the
president himself let slip the fact that she's not crazy about the noise. And I have no, just to remind our viewers, her office was in the East Wing
before it was torn down.
KLEIN: That's right. And her staff right now are working out of other buildings in the executive mansion. So, it's really quite remarkable. But I
think what's most telling here is her silence on the matter. She has not weighed in on this project, positively or negatively. And, of course, the
symbolic destruction of the East Wing that has been a symbolic home for first ladies for decades now, really quite remarkable.
NEWTON: As I said, the president himself let slip that it's a bone of contention right now. Betsy Klein for us, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Now, Pope Leo presides over Holy Thursday Mass at the Vatican and a traditional foot washing for the first time since his election. We will
share his powerful message.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:00]
NEWTON: Pope Leo XIV is celebrating his first Holy Thursday as pope. He presided at a chrism mass where hundreds of bishops and priests renewed the
promises they made at their ordination. And just a short time ago, the pontiff led a mass in Rome at the Lateran Basilica, washing the feet of 12
priests as a symbol of humility and service. This is a Holy Thursday tradition commemorating Jesus' act of washing the feet of his disciples
during the Last Supper.
CNN's Christopher Lamb joins us now from Rome. And I'm sure, Christopher, that you're immersing yourself in this pope, right? It is important. It is
his first Easter celebration as pope. And already we've seen a departure, right? I think in pope's past would wash the feet of prisoners. He's chosen
to do it a little differently.
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're seeing in Leo's first Holy Week and Easter a difference in style from his predecessor. Pope
Francis, as you mentioned, would often go and wash the feet of prisoners and refugees. You know, where they were. And he would take the ritual kind
of out of the basilicas, whereas Pope Leo decided to come back to the St. John Lateran Basilica behind me, which is, of course, the mother church of
Rome. It is the pope's cathedral. And so, showing a return to tradition and also washing the feet of 12 priests, 11 of whom he ordained last summer.
So, Leo showing his more formal style and the decision to wash the priest's feet, of course, reflects that the Holy Thursday foot washing ritual is,
according to Catholic understanding, the institution of the priesthood, because, of course, it commemorates Jesus washing the feet of his
disciples.
But whilst there is difference in style between Leo and his predecessor, the message of humility of service was very strongly emphasized by the pope
today. And he said that there's a tendency for people to feel great when they dominate or feel great when they're feared and powerful when they
dominate. And I think that message quite pointed at this time with what's going on in the world, a message that resonates politically too.
And Leo is very concerned about the war in Iran. He told me on Tuesday that he hopes President Trump finds an off-ramp. And I think we can expect to
see from and hear from Leo more of that in the coming days, a call for peace, for dialogue during this time of Holy Week and the lead up to
Easter, Paula.
NEWTON: And I wanted to ask you about that as you're so steeped in these things in terms of papal history and their involvement in current events.
Do you believe that Pope Leo may get more involved perhaps in his second year here throughout 2026 in political events? He has been quite pointed,
not just in comments to you, but in other comments he's made over the last few weeks regarding whether it's American policy, the country of his birth
or other politics around the world.
LAMB: Well, yes, I think we are seeing him become, you know, more of a critic of the Trump administration. But also, I think his leadership and
his style offers quite a different way of leading from some of the populist or nationalist trends that we see on the world stage. You know, he's a
very, I would say, mild-mannered. He's gentle. He's not someone who seeks to dominate the news agendas.
But he does have, I think, and we're increasingly seeing, a message to communicate. And that is one of peace, of dialogue at a time of growing
conflicts in the world.
[14:55:00]
I think we are going to see more of that from Leo. I think he is in many ways a kind of spiritual counterweight to the Trump administration. And
let's not forget, the Cardinals broke with history last year when they decided to vote for the first U.S.-born pope. And that is hugely
significant. It was viewed in the Vatican as impossible to have an American pope. But things changed. I mean, obviously, Pope Leo as a person, as a
candidate, was very compelling, with lots of experience. But the election of Trump did change things, I think, for that conclave last year.
NEWTON: Yes, and we will see how these progresses. As I said, his anniversary is coming up -- his one-year anniversary is coming up in May.
Coming up, Christopher Lamb, you have a new book which we will discuss in the days and weeks to come on Pope Leo. Appreciate it there, live for us in
Rome.
And I want to thank you for watching. Stay with us. "What We Know" with Max Foster is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
