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Isa Soares Tonight
Trump Threatens To Wipe Out Entire Iranian Civilization If Deal Is Not Reached Soon; Desperate Scenes Of Brutality In Sudan As Civil War Stretches On; Artemis II Crew On Their Way Back Home After A Successful Mission Beyond The Earth's Orbit; VP Vance Backs Orban In Budapest Ahead Of Hungarian Elections; Trump: "A Whole Civilization Will Die Tonight" If No Deal; Iran Hours Away From Trump's Deadline To Reopen Strait; Sudan's Humanitarian Crisis. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired April 07, 2026 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, an unprecedented threat from the U.S.
President that a whole civilization will die tonight. We'll have more on that ultimatum ahead of Donald Trump's deadline for Iran to make a deal and
open the Strait of Hormuz.
Then desperate scenes of brutality in Sudan, as a civil war stretches on. I am joined by photojournalist Charles Clarke, who has just returned from
Darfur. Plus, the Artemis II crew are on their way home. NASA releases stunning new imagery from their journey around the moon. We'll have that
and much more ahead for you this hour.
But first, tonight. It is an unprecedented threat of annihilation against one of the oldest civilizations in the world. Donald Trump is escalating an
ultimatum to Iran as his deadline for it to unblock the Strait of Hormuz is now just, what? Six hours away.
The U.S. President wrote on social media, we want to show you this, quote, "a whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again." He
says he doesn't want it to happen, but it probably will. It's important to note Mr. Trump has made several Maximalist threats during the war, only to
back down by extending deadlines.
He is now vowing to destroy every bridge and power plant in Iran if this latest deadline is missed. Iran calls the threats baseless and delusional,
saying it would only widen retaliatory attacks. Strikes on some infrastructure in Iran are already underway, with Israel announcing it hit
railways and bridges today used by the Revolutionary Guard.
Iran meantime, now calling on people to form human chains around power plants and bridges. And we are seeing that happen as you can see there in
several locations across Iran. Well, a critical hub for Iranian oil exports has also come under renewed attack, we've spoken about it here on the show.
The U.S. says it hit military targets on Kharg Island, Iranian media are reporting little damage. So, a lot for us to get through. Let's get more
from our Stephen Collinson who joins us now from Washington. And Stephen, this is really an unprecedented and terrifying threat to obliterate
civilization.
The question now is, does the President mean it? Like we said just now, he's made several threats before and then extended the deadline. What are
you hearing?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: We're hearing, I think, a lot of shock in Washington this morning about this chilling threat by the
President. Trump has walked up to many precipices in his time. This one appears to be the deepest.
If he's going to walk back, it will cost him a great deal of damage to his prestige. I think there are three potential outcomes. First of all, that he
goes ahead with this attempt to sort of destroy all of these power plants in Iran, all of these bridges, a major escalation of the war that could
cause Iran to respond very ferociously.
That makes all the impacts of the war from the cost of oil, to the stock markets and everything else, a lot more severe. He could step back, you
know, talk about potentially -- well, there are some talks going on. We've made some breakthroughs as he has in the past and get out of this
particular deadline and dilemma, or he could basically say, you know, we've done what we're going to do. We're walking away.
That leaves real problems. So, I think the question here to ask is, any -- are any of the courses of action open to Trump likely to end the war more
quickly or open the Strait of Hormuz? Probably not. And that might explain the state of the President's mind, which seems to be complete frustration
and not really knowing what to do next.
SOARES: Yes, a lot riding, of course, in the next hour, especially as we hear Vice President J.D. Vance saying, there's a lot of negotiations
before, of course, the deadline reaches. We haven't heard any more on that. Stephen, really appreciate it. Thank you very much indeed.
Let's continue with this, because just in the last few hours or so, the U.N. Human Rights chief calls President Trump's threat to annihilate
civilization in Iran, sickening. He says carrying through on that threat would amount to the most serious international crimes.
[14:05:00]
Let's get more on this, and for more on the U.S. military operations currently underway, and what could lie ahead, we're joined by retired U.S.
Army Brigadier-General Steven Anderson. General, great to have you on the show.
Let me get your thoughts then on that threat, that really stunning threat from the U.S. President saying that entire civilization will die tonight.
How much do you think this is an effective, if it is an effective negotiating strategy?
And the reason I ask is because Iran's government spokesperson has said in the last hour that Trump's threats won't open the door to dialogue.
STEVEN ANDERSON, RETIRED U.S. ARMY BRIGADIER-GENERAL: Well, thank you, Isa. First of all, I'd like to say that I agree with everything that Stephen
just had to say about this. I mean, this is an absolutely critical moment I believe, and I'm very scared.
And everybody watching this telecast should be scared as well, because we're used to bluster from Donald Trump. That's always been his modus
operandi. But this one seems to be taking it a bit farther than ever before, and I am really scared exactly where he's going to go.
We know that he loves to misuse the military. He has converted what has been America's military into Trump's militia. And I think he feels that it
feeds his ego and it makes him a big shot on the world stage to be able to use the military and make threats like he's making.
And I'm hoping it's just that. A negotiating tactic, a threat that will go away like he does all the time. I mean, you know, this is -- this would be,
you know -- he's already had four extensions of this deadline. First one was 48 hours, the next one was five days, and another ten days later, and
then another two days, you know.
But the fact of the matter is that this entire war was predicated on a misunderstanding of the enemy. You know, when I was a cadet --
SOARES: Yes --
ANDERSON: At West Point, we were taught by Sun Tzu, you know, to know the enemy as thyself. And we just do not know this enemy, and Donald Trump
seems to be absolutely floundering right now.
SOARES: Do you think he underestimated Iran specifically when it comes to the Strait of Hormuz here?
ANDERSON: Absolutely, Isa. He --
SOARES: Yes --
ANDERSON: Doesn't understand the will to fight of these people. I mean, they are not just fighting for themselves or for Iran. This is a holy war.
We are the great Satan, and we are giving them every opportunity to leverage our -- you know, the things that we've done over the last month to
solidify this image of us as the great Satan.
And so, we have -- we have never really realized how serious these people are, and the will to fight and the tenacity that they have. And then the
Strait of Hormuz, you know, how we could not have known this? I mean, when I was in the military, we war-game this all the time.
And that was one of the first things that we considered, was the Strait of Hormuz, and what the Iranians would do. They possess tremendous asymmetric
capabilities, mines, drones, missiles, cruise missiles, speedboats -- and by the way, they probably be in artillery range because it's only 21 miles
apart.
So, it's -- you know, based on an entire miscalculation, this is more feed -- food for that assessment. And I'm really worried right now that he's
crossed the line.
SOARES: We heard, General, Vice President J.D. Vance, who, as you have seen, who is in Hungary to show its support to leader Viktor Orban ahead of
election there. He told reporters that he doesn't think the strikes we're seeing in Kharg Island represents a change in strategy from the United
States. Let me play exactly what he said. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES DAVID VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My understanding -- you know, having talked to Pete and General Caine about this is that, we
were going to strike some military targets on Kharg Island, I believe we have done so.
The President's deadline is -- has been followed by us and everybody else, and he said very clearly, we're not going to strike energy and
infrastructure targets until the Iranians either make a proposal that we can get behind or don't make a proposal.
But he's given them until Tuesday at 8 O'clock. So, I don't think the news on Kharg Island is -- represents a change in strategy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Do you agree with that, General? I mean, what then is the strategy here with Kharg Island?
ANDERSON: Well, I hope that he's right. I hope that it just was simply some attacks on the military infrastructure, not on the oil structure. But my
concern is this, Isa, that normally, every ground operation is predicated by some sort of an artillery or aerial bombardment of some sort.
[14:10:00]
And exactly like -- my understanding is what took place today was that type of a preparatory strike. And to me, that signals that he might be seriously
considering putting boots on the ground in Kharg Island. He's got the immediate ready brigade from the 82nd Airborne in theater somewhere,
probably at Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar. They might be in Kuwait --
SOARES: To use it -- to use it as a leverage --
ANDERSON: In any event --
SOARES: General, to use it then as leverage.
ANDERSON: He absolutely could be doing that, be using it as a negotiating tactic or some sort of leverage, the threat to be able to use this
immediate ready brigade and put them on the ground in a place like Kharg Island. I'm hoping that's the case. Because I would -- I think it would be
a serious --
SOARES: And how many boots then you really need? If that's the case, how many boots then on the ground would you need?
ANDERSON: You would probably be -- the brigade would have about probably 6,000 or so soldiers, but there likely are likely equipped. They have
machine guns and, you know, and small weapons. They don't have a lot of artillery, they don't have any tanks, you know.
So -- and by the way, the Iranians know that we're coming. So, you can imagine all the booby traps and all the preparatory work that they have
done to make our visit to Kharg Island as unpleasant as possible -- oh, by the way, they also have 9,200 civilians that live there somehow.
So, we'd have to deal with that. But I mean, could we take it? Yes. Would there be a heavy cost to it? Probably -- and oh, by the way, once we get
there, we're going to be 15 miles within mainland Iran, and that would mean that we'd be constantly under missile attack, some kind of asymmetric
attack.
Any mines, any ship that tries to pull in there is going to be subject to mine attacks, perhaps, or these speedboats. And also, artillery. There's a
mountain range right across the island 15 miles away. They can roll them out of cages -- from caves and shoot artillery at us all day long. So, it
would be, I --
SOARES: Yes --
ANDERSON: Believe, a real mess to take, to seize any kind of sovereign territory or of Iran, like Kharg Island.
SOARES: Brigadier-General, really appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you very much, Steven Anderson there. Thank you. I want to take you now to
Israel, where alerts have been sounding throughout the day, warning of incoming fire from Iran.
Our Jeremy Diamond is in Tel Aviv this hour. And Jeremy, there's a lot of nervousness, and I can imagine, there's the same over whether the
President, of course, will follow through with this threat and what can be unleashed in the hours ahead. Just give us a sense of what the region, how
the region is bracing for this?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's no question that everyone in this region is on pins and needles waiting for that deadline,
which is, you know, fewer than six hours away now, because of the very real possibility of significant regional escalation in this war.
I mean, we have seen already this war take different turns, you know, increases in ballistic missile fire, changing of targets by the United
States, by Israel, by Iran. But this would really take things to a very different level, because of the threats that we've heard from President
Trump, where he's threatening to wipe out Iranian civilization.
He's threatening to go after Iranian civilian infrastructure, power plants. And we know that the Iranians also have the ability to escalate on their
end. That's why we're already seeing the United States Embassy in Bahrain, for example, ordering its staff to shelter in place, and urging American
civilians in Bahrain to do the same.
The Iranians have already struck oil infrastructure. They've struck, you know, civilian infrastructure in the gulf countries. But we know that they
could do a lot more, and that there has been a certain degree of restraint from the Iranians on that target list.
And they could significantly ramp-up their target, their strikes on that oil infrastructure, on desalination infrastructure in the gulf, which is so
critical to that region. And of course, on commercial targets and the U.S. military bases that are in the region as well.
We'll see what their capabilities are here in Israel, we've seen them ramp- up at times, but of course, their capabilities do seem relatively limited in terms of long-range striking at Israel. But again, a moment certainly of
anticipation.
We haven't gotten any indications of a total breakdown or a total breakthrough in those negotiations. So --
SOARES: Yes --
DIAMOND: There's still some time before that deadline. But, you know, certainly, time is running out.
SOARES: Indeed, Jeremy, thank you very much indeed, joining us there from Tel Aviv. Well, the closure of the Strait of Hormuz is having a global
impact on markets and energy supplies for weeks now, as you've seen. It's also brought into focus the increasingly strained relationship between the
U.S. and Europe.
U.S. President Donald Trump has called on European allies to use force to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. He's also traded barbs with British Prime
Minister Keir Starmer and French President Emmanuel Macron over what he sees as a lack of support.
However, one of the most vocal opponents to the war in Iran has been Spain. The country's Defense Minister calls the conflict profoundly illegal. Spain
has also refused to allow the U.S. to use its military bases for its airspace.
[14:15:00]
Joining me now is the Spanish Foreign Minister, Jose Manuel Albares. Foreign Minister, thank you very much for taking the time to speak to us.
Welcome back to the show. Let me just get your reaction, first of all, to the Truth Social post that left us all aghast in the early hours of this
morning from the U.S. President saying that a whole civilization will die tonight unless Iran reaches a deal. Your thoughts.
JOSE MANUEL ALBARES, FOREIGN MINISTER, SPAIN: Of course, I'm very worried about that message, about the consequences if this ultimatum and the
consequences of it are carried out. And what I call to all parties, Iran, the United States. Israel, is to de-escalate, to go back to the negotiation
table where everything can be negotiated, including, of course, the nuclear -- the Iranian nuclear dossier.
I think that violence only brings more violence, and that the consequences, economic, environmental, humanitarian consequences of carrying out that
ultimatum and the consequences could be terrible for all humanity. So, of course, I call all parties for de-escalation.
And Spain and its foreign policy works for de-escalation and for going back to diplomacy and negotiation.
SOARES: We heard from Iran's government spokesperson, Foreign Minister, saying that Trump's threats won't open the door to dialogue, they said.
We've also heard over the weekend, you would have seen this, the press -- the President of the United States threatening to obliterate power plants
and bridges, basically civilian infrastructure. If that goes ahead, would it constitute a war crime, given the intent here?
ALBARES: Bombing energy infrastructure, civilian infrastructure is forbidden by international law. But let's not go ahead. Let's stay in this
moment. Foreign policy is about concrete things. Today, a few hours away from the ultimatum, we are still within the possibility of de-escalating,
of holding back, of prevailing diplomacy over force.
Military force by its own never guarantees security. Security needs also diplomacy, a certain degree of cooperation. We cannot accept normally that
the different people in the Middle East, the different countries, the only natural way to relate among themselves is through war, through violence. I
don't accept that things can be done differently.
SOARES: Right, we've had several weeks, though, where the negotiations and diplomacy haven't got us anywhere, and we've heard from Iran pretty much
insisting, Foreign Minister, on its key demands. It wants an end to the -- a full end, I should say, to the war. It wants reparations.
It wants sanctions relief, and it wants financial authority over the Strait of Hormuz. I believe that would be unacceptable to the U.S. President. So,
what does then, an off-ramp look like, and what kind of pressure can Europe place on, not just the United States, but also on Iran who's holding the
Strait of Hormuz hostage right now?
ALBARES: There are three things about that. One is that, when the United States and Iran was sitting around the table with the mediation of man,
things were advancing very well. We should go back to that point. It's not that far ago.
Secondly, we call Iran to respect the rights and the freedom of its people to stop these unjustified attacks of -- on all the countries in the Middle
East that have done nothing in order to have this war, and to open the Strait of Hormuz, and the United States and Israel to stop the bombing and
to go back to negotiation.
Europe must be a mediator power, a power that brings reason, that brings diplomacy. And when it comes to the nuclear dossier of Iran, of course, we
reject completely that Iran could have the nuclear bomb. But there was a negotiation on that, and things were advancing pretty well as far as I
know. So, let's go back to that point.
SOARES: Yes, until the U.S. then started, left the negotiations and started bombing, which happened very quickly, not even giving negotiations a chance
from what I remember. But you know, European allies have faced the wrath on numerous occasions, Foreign Minister, of the U.S. President.
Spain, as we mentioned just before we came to you, has banned U.S. military aircraft involved in the war from using its airspace. You have been openly
opposed to the operations of Iran from the beginning, even while facing criticism from the President that the U.S. may cut off trade with you. Just
your reaction, first of all, to these relentless criticism from the U.S. President vis-a-vis Spain.
[14:20:00]
ALBARES: We think that the United States is the historical natural ally of Spain and the Europeans. And that relationship, both when it comes to Euro-
Atlantic security and Euro-Atlantic trade, have been mutually beneficial for both of us. We want it to continue being like that.
When it comes to this war, we were neither informed nor consulted, as many European leaders have said, this is not the war of Europe. And when it
comes to the military bases, there is a bilateral agreement that says that these bases that are under Spanish sovereignty will always -- the use of it
will always comply with the United Nations charter.
And that's why the decision was taken by the Spanish government. We want the relationship with the United States to continue being mutually
beneficial, and we work in order to keep it that way. But we want to comply with international law, with the United Nations charter, and also with the
will and the interest of our people that are being directly hit in their pockets by the consequences of this war that we haven't chosen.
SOARES: And before you go, Foreign Minister, let me get your thoughts on what we've heard today from Vice President J.D. Vance, who has really gone
on the attack against the EU, against Brussels, accusing it of blatantly interfering in Hungary's upcoming elections.
Of course, he was in Hungary today, giving -- showing his support to Viktor Orban. How do you react -- how does Spain react to this criticism?
ALBARES: European Union is above all about democracy, and Democratic values. And of course, no European countries and institutions from Brussels
never interfere on the elections of any country. When it comes to democracy, when it comes to the election of one country, the better is to
let them alone, those people.
Let the debate be among Hungarian citizens. It's a moment in which every country needs calm in order to have that dialogue without external
interference from anyone, and certainly, European Union and European Union countries always respect that principle.
SOARES: I understood you perfectly as I read between the lines. Foreign Minister, good to have you on the show, thank you very much indeed. And
still --
ALBARES: Thank you --
SOARES: To come tonight, as the war in Iran escalates, America's second in command in Europe trying to drum-up support, as we said, for a key ally
facing an election battle, as you heard me discuss there with the Spanish Foreign Minister. We'll have more on that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:00]
SOARES: Well, as President Trump warns that a whole civilization will die tonight unless Iran reopens the Strait of Hormuz. His number two-man, Vice
President J.D. Vance, was campaigning in Budapest for Hungarian leader Viktor Orban, the far-right, anti-EU, pro-Kremlin Prime Minister is facing
his biggest challenge in years in election set for this coming Sunday.
And as Vance, a top foreign official, actively campaigns for Orban, he's imploring Hungarians not to cave to foreign interference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: What has happened in this country, what has happened in the midst of this election campaign is one of the worst examples of foreign election
interference that I've ever seen, or ever even read about. The bureaucrats in Brussels have tried to destroy the economy of Hungary.
They have tried to make Hungary less energy independent. They have tried to drive up costs for Hungarian consumers, and they've done it all because
they hate this guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's get more. Our Melissa Bell joins me now from Budapest. And Melissa, I mean, there is an irony to what we are seeing, right? These
claims of election interference, you know, finger-pointing at Brussels, finger-pointing at Kyiv as the U.S. administration, as the Vice President
goes to Budapest and interferes in Hungary's election. Expand on this and how it's resonating there.
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was quite extraordinary to see the American Vice President arriving, as you just heard in that clip
you played a moment ago, Isa, all guns blazing election interference from Brussels, referring, of course, to the 16 billion euros worth of post-COVID
recovery funds that have been held back by Brussels because of their concerns over law and order here in Hungary.
Over corruption, and over how European funds might be misappropriated or better accounted for. That's why the money was withheld. What J.D. Vance
was suggesting was that, that had been a form of election interference, even as he came here to speak, just days ahead of this, what is being
considered really the most consequential poll here in Hungary since the first free and fair election after the fall of communism.
That's how closely this poll is being watched. So, his visit here really quite extraordinary. That was his initial press conference with Viktor
Orban after their bilateral talks.
As you heard, defending the fact that he was here, even as Peter Magyar, the man that polls are suggesting could beat Viktor Orban this weekend,
came out and spoke exactly to the fact that he considered J.D. Vance's visit here a form of election interference.
But that was just the start of the day. The American Vice President then went on to this big rally in a stadium and spoke at length after Viktor
Orban. This is how he opened his speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: Mr. President, you are on with about 5,000 Hungarian patriots, and I think they love you even more than they love Viktor Orban.
(CHEERS)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (via telephone): Well, I can't believe that. I can't believe that because I love Hungary, and I love that
Viktor --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELL: I think it's a reminder of just how important this place of Viktor Orban is in the hearts of the leaders of the American administration, the
hearts of MAGA more generally. This was, after all, the European strong man, Isa, who wrote the autocrats playbook on how to turn what had been a
functioning European democracy into the illiberal democracy that Viktor Orban now boasts of.
It was -- we know, an important part of the Heritage Foundations imaginings of what Project 2025 might look like, how President Trump might, in a
second term, wield executive power. Looking at precisely what Viktor Orban had done here in Hungary to sort of show them the way.
The fact that he is now threatened, that his leadership may be coming to an end really seems to rattle them enough, that the American Vice President
would be here, even as those threats against Iran are being made. And even as -- bear in mind, it's been suggested that he might be the man involved
in the last-minute negotiations with Tehran.
So, extraordinary timing on several levels, not least because, of course, we are just days away from this momentous election that has huge
geopolitical implications, since it is one in which Moscow is accused of interfering. The United States is now having its word to say, and the
European Union and Kyiv have been trying to stay out of it.
But you'll see all around Budapest, signs showing the Ukrainian President precisely, because Viktor Orban is trying to convince the electorate that
should the opposition win, then the war in Ukraine would become Hungary's war, in a war that -- way that it hadn't been before, with potential drafts
and so on, and certainly, a change of policy with regard to Russia.
So, this is an election. The consequences of which -- but even the actual - - over the course of the next days, the happenings of which are really going to be looked at very widely and already. Washington and Moscow are
very closely interfering in trying to make sure it goes the right way, Isa.
[14:30:17]
SOARES: Indeed. Melissa Bell for us there in Budapest. Good to see you, Melissa.
And we are tracking developments for you in Istanbul, where Turkish officials say one attacker is dead and two other assailants injured after a
gun battle near the Israeli consulate. Authorities say two police officers were also hurt. The consulate is on the seventh floor of a building in
Istanbul's financial district. Israel's calling the shooting a terrorist attack and says this consulate wasn't staffed at the time of the attack.
Both U.S. and Israeli diplomatic missions around the world are on heightened alert in the wake of the war against Iran.
And still to come tonight, we return to the Middle East, where everyone is wondering if today will be the day that Donald Trump carries through with
his threats to destroy Iran's infrastructure. We'll have more on that.
Plus, how the war with Iran is impacting Sudan's crucial supply of aid. I ask photojournalist Giles Clarke about the malnutrition he witnessed on his
recent trip to Darfur. That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Is this the day Donald Trump carries through with his threat to rain destruction down on Iran? That is the big
question, as we are just hours from Mr. Trump's latest deadline for Iran to cut a deal and reopen the Strait of Hormuz. Earlier today, the U.S.
president said on social media that Iran's, quote, "whole civilization will die tonight if a deal is not reached."
But we have heard these threats before. Trump has repeatedly promised to hit Iran's infrastructure in recent weeks only to extend his deadline and
make talk the negotiations were getting close to a deal, as you can see there.
Well, with some perspective on what would be coming just a matter of hours in this war, we are joined by Alex Vatanka, he's a senior fellow and the
founding director of the Iran program at the Middle East Institute. Alex, good to have you back on the show.
[14:35:00]
Look, these threats that we are hearing from the president, they are bombastic. We've heard them before, but perhaps not at this level.
Absolutely unprecedented and terrifying. First of all, give us a sense, Alex, of what you are hearing from inside Iran as we head, of course,
towards that deadline. What, six hours, less than six hours or so?
ALEX VATANKA, SENIOR FELLOW, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Isa, great to be with you. You know, as you can imagine, there is a lot of anger in Iran. Some
reports suggesting they've cut off all diplomatic talks with the United States. The language of force is something that they don't want to listen
to. If you hear the Iranian officials describe their mood, they've always said that, that they're not going to capitulate the way the American
president wants them to capitulate.
But I also have to add to your point, this sort of language is so highly unusual that here in the United States, we're even hearing close Trump
allies in the Republican Party saying, United States is in this war right now against the Islamic Republic, a political entity that's been there for
47 years, has been anti-American from get-go. And, you know, there's a case to be made why the United States wants to fight that regime.
But when you start talking about the Persian civilization and you want to bring it to an end for good, you know, you're going to lose a lot of
people, not only folks in Iran who might be preparing to negotiate, but you're also losing Iranians outside. And you're also certainly losing a lot
of political capital here, including the Republican Party, as far as this war's trajectory is concerned.
SOARES: Yes, because civilization is not a regime, it's people, it's language, it's culture. There's so much more to that. Let me get your take,
then, to how some of this language has been used just in the last 24 hours or so, Alex. We heard yesterday on the show, we heard the president talk
about -- say that Iranians want them to bomb. I want to play exactly what he said, so I don't -- you know, I don't paraphrase incorrectly. Have a
listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: All I can tell you is they want freedom. They would be willing to suffer that in order to have freedom. The Iranians have
-- and we've had numerous intercepts. Please keep bombing. Bombs that are dropping near their homes. Please keep bombing. Do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: I mean, when you hear that, first of all, is there any truth to this? Have you heard any of this?
VATANKA: I mean, I can't speak to intercepts, obviously, Isa. But I can tell you that for sure, you know, a good part of Iranian society, at least
when this war began on the 28th of February, were hopeful for a quick military intervention on the part of the United States and the end of the
Islamic Republic. A system vast majority of Iranians, clear, majority of Iranians, you know, want to see end.
But is that happening today, five weeks into this war, when this war has now resulted in thousands of civilians' deaths, so much destruction, and
now talk of end of the Iranian civilization? For those reasons I just laid out, I'm doubtful that the president is being entirely truthful here in
terms of the Iranian people want the bombing to continue, even maybe escalate.
Because, you know, the big question, Isa, is what's going to be left of Iran by the time this is done? That's not what the Iranian people bought
into when they came and sort of initially supported the idea of a military intervention, but a quick end to the regime so they can go back to their
lives and rebuild their country once it's taken away from the Islamists.
SOARES: Yes, and we've heard from the spokesperson of the Iranian government saying that Trump's threats won't open the door to dialogue. And
I just wonder then, Alex, with these threats to obliterate a civilization, you know, what is the current strategy? If there is a current strategy,
from your understanding, from the regime, who is in charge right now?
VATANKA: So, Isa, I don't think actually -- you know, the language, as you very correctly pointed out at the beginning, this is something he, Donald
Trump, engages is this sort of language, not just vis-a-vis Iran, anybody that is in his way. This is not something unusual. I think the Iranians
would be mistaken taking this personally, if you will.
But in terms of the bigger problem here, they just don't think Donald Trump is serious about diplomacy. That's their reading in Iran. They think Donald
Trump got into this war because Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel sold the idea of a quick victory in Iran, a regime that's hated, a military
intervention will kill it off. That's how Donald Trump entered into this war.
And now, the Iranians think Donald Trump is still sticking with the Israelis in terms of their analysis, which now is, well, the regime is
going to stay in power, but you know what we can do? We can weaken the state. We can hit them so hard that Iran is not going to bother anyone for
decades to come. That's why we're seeing this turn. It's what the Iranians call the new phase, which is no longer targeting regime officials or
military installations and targets, but now it's aimed at the key infrastructure.
So, basically, the Iranians think the Americans, the Israelis, really what they want is to cripple Iran as a state in any ways possible in weeks and
months to come.
SOARES: Yes, and that's why we've seen them also starting to go after, again, Kharg Island. We shall see how the events unfold. Alex, really
appreciate you taking the time to speak to us. Good to see you. Alex Vatanka there.
[14:45:00]
And still to come tonight, an economic war. That's how my next guest describes the dire situation in Sudan. My conversation with award-winning
photojournalist Giles Clarke. Just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: While the war in the Middle East could not have come at a worse time for Sudan, a country embroiled in civil war and gripped by famine, the
escalating conflict is severely disrupting shipping routes, squeezing already fragile humanitarian supply lines and threatening millions of
people desperately in need of aid.
As Sudan's civil war enters -- soon enters, I should say, its fourth year of fighting, photojournalist Giles Clark is documenting the scale of that
brutality. Giles, join me here in London and describe the situation he saw and the people he met on his third trip to the region.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GILES CLARKE, PHOTOJOURNALIST: Well, this is at the Medecins Sans Frontieres hospital in Tawila, and Mashira (ph) was displaced from El
Fasher. Her husband was killed in a mortar attack, died in the Saudi hospital, which was later attacked and 400 people were killed. But she got
out of El Fasher with one of her three children, which is Mona. Mona's three years old and she weighs just over 11 pounds.
SOARES: That's 4.9 kilos.
CLARKE: Right.
SOARES: It's staggering. Yes.
CLARKE: I mean, this is -- and Mona, unfortunately, is, you know, part of the tapestry of this malnutrition issue that's really deep there. And
Medecins Sans Frontieres, who are doing an incredible job here not -- I mean, I work in a lot of places, and these are the guys that are the sort
of beacons of emergency help. She's fine now.
SOARES: Oh, good. That's really good to hear.
CLARKE: But it's -- this is -- yes, this, I think.
SOARES: And acute malnutrition, food shortages is something that you have seen. And this photo really captures, if that didn't really, captures what
is happening. Tell us about this and what -- and what you -- and really -- what moved you to take this shot?
CLARKE: Well, this was on our way -- so, this is on our way in an area of northern Darfur, that's me meeting sort of remote village, people in remote
villages. This is a village behind. And on our way there, I noticed all these dead animals. And just to add sort of even more challenge to their
lives, there's been a disease amongst livestock and donkeys.
[14:45:00]
And so -- and the chap here was just a young soldier. And I talked to him, actually. I said, you know, because he looked young, you know, and he's 17.
He's had never been to school. So, this is a moment when I capture a moment. You know, this is when I need to photograph this stuff. So, it's --
there's some multi-dimensions here. It's the livestock challenges, the child soldiers. It's the barrenness. And, you know -- I mean, it's -- yes.
So --
SOARES: And do you have been -- I mean, you've covered this crisis, this war for so long and you meet -- I imagine these stories, it's not just
names. These are stories and people that stay with you. I think this is Dr. Mubarak.
On a personal level, how hard is that, you know, leaving and then knowing that how difficult it is, how the eyes of the world haven't been focused on
this crisis? Is that tough on a personal level, Giles?
CLARKE: I mean, for me, it's about giving them light, you know. And so, I - - you know, I have a sort of a little mantra. Before I return to my family, I sort of take off my coat of misery, if you like. I'm there to do a job.
And I do really want to sort of highlight this kind of people. Dr. Mubarak again.
SOARES: Yes. Tell us about him.
CLARKE: MSF doctor. He was working as a surgeon in El Fasher at the time of the war, the height of the war in October last year. And he got out of the
hospital where he said that there were times when mortars would land in the hospital and patients were killed and they would have to bring patients
down from the top floors to operate on them. And he eventually ended up operating in basements, not only in the Saudi hospital, but also in other
basements. Plan B, I think, had a basement, which is another NGO.
So, I mean, he's just one of those guys that just frontline surgeon. And he got out four hours, I think, before the hospital was attacked for the final
time. And he took off -- he took -- you know, no sight -- he couldn't be seen as a doctor because when they were leaving El Fasher, militants would
question anybody who had any connection with doctors like him who were looking after not only their soldiers, but the government soldiers.
So, a lot of them were suspected of being, you know, part of that -- the other side. So, he got out with no ID, no phone, civilian clothes. And now,
he's a doctor in a displaced -- you know, in the most -- in the largest displacement area of Northern Darfur. And he's -- you know, he's just an --
and with 80 percent of the people who are in his immediate care are also displaced.
SOARES: Does it surprise you that this war hasn't made the front pages as often, hasn't caught the attention of, you know, networks? We have a
responsibility, of course.
CLARKE: Yes.
SOARES: Are you frustrated by that? We're doing the people of Sudan a disservice here?
CLARKE: I think it's -- ultimately, it's an economic war. So, it's incredibly hard to report there.
SOARES: Yes.
CLARKE: Journalists are not allowed in for lots of reasons, mostly because I think that it's really about the economics. The difficulty of trying to
get this on the front page is that you've -- you're not really dealing with something that is to most people that important. You know, I mean, it's as
easy as that. I mean, I don't know how else to say it.
You know, and it's -- I mean, it's all very well me sitting here and talking about it, but unless there's going to, and there's not an interest
in this ceasefire because there's too much at stake. That would force, you know, that would force accountability for one thing. It would slow down
revenue streams for either sides. So, it's sort of that quagmire that doesn't really hold much for -- and unfortunately, the people of Sudan,
like Zainab, are always going to be stuck in the middle of that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:00]
SOARES: Well, the mission has been accomplished. Now, it's time to come home. About an hour ago, the crew of the Artemis II mission left the moon's
sphere of influence and began their journey back to Earth. NASA has released some really truly amazing images they shot yesterday as they flew
around the moon. Have a look at these, really beautiful.
Today will be a much quieter day for the astronauts. They will have a chat with the crew of the International Space Station and may be asked to fire
the engines for a few seconds if they need a course correction on the way back to Earth. In fact, just moments ago, the crew had a ship-to-ship call
with astronauts on the International Space Station. Here's a bit of that exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are so excited to be up here with you. And we had a couple of questions. We are wondering -- you know, we know how fortunate
all of us are as humans to come up here and we look down at the Earth from above. Every astronaut that comes to space remarks on that, and we really
wanted to hear what that felt like, how different that felt now from your new perspective around the moon.
CHRISTINA KOCK, ARTEMIS II MISSION SPECIALIST: Well, I'll start by saying we do miss the ISS. The views there are awesome, being able to see specific
places, being able to see your home specifically. So, you all's views are absolutely incredible and I miss them every day almost.
The thing that changed for me looking back at Earth was that I found myself noticing not only the beauty of the Earth, but how much blackness there was
around it. And how -- it just made it even more special. It truly emphasized how alive we are. How the same thing keeps every single person
on planet Earth alive. We evolved on the same planet. We have some shared things about how we love and live that are just universal. And the
specialness and preciousness of that really is emphasized when you notice how much else there is around it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Wow. That is quite something. Randi Kaye is at the Johnson Space Centre in Houston. Randi, that little exchange that we played really
captured what some of those in that crew, the astronauts, what they felt and how humbling that must have been.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, these four astronauts, I mean, they're really scientists and this is a test mission, but they are
just -- they're incredible. They show such humanity and they have -- they're such deep thinkers. They have so many really great deep thoughts
that I think we can all learn from.
And they're also amazing photographers, it turns out, because they are taking incredible images for us and sending them back to Earth. They took
about 10,000 images or so during their flyby. And we have some of those incredible images coming in today. There's one where you see, several where
you see the Earth sort of disappearing behind the lunar horizon. And it's incredible.
You can see the texture in the moon. You can see the Earth. Half of it is dark, half of it is light. And they were able to see a total solar eclipse
when they were there. So, we have photos of them taking part in this eclipse. In one photo, they're wearing their eclipse glasses, but in some
of these photos of the eclipse, you can see planets. There's one where you can very clearly see Venus. It is really just remarkable.
[14:55:00]
And then one photo in particular shows the texture of the moon, really deep texture of the moon. And pilot Victor Glover was talking about how the
black holes looked so deep. He said if you were to fall in one of them, it looked like you would come out the other side of the moon. That's how deep
it looked to him.
And some of these craters, according to the expert, Dr. Nicky Fox, one of the top science officials here at Johnson Space Center in Houston, she told
us that some of these craters are four billion years old. They found one yesterday that they said was a quote, "young crater that was 3.8 billion
years old." So, it's just amazing, amazing to see what they're finding up there.
Even today, they had that call with the space station. They're going to debrief the scientists here at Johnson Space Center. And then they'll get a
course correction. They're going to practice some more manual piloting in space. And eventually, they will slingshot their way back to Earth.
SOARES: And hopefully, they'll be splashing down on Earth in what, I think, three days' time, right, Randi? Really appreciate really beautiful,
stunning images. Takes your breath away. It makes you feel so very small in this world. Randi, good to see you. Thank you very much indeed.
And that does it for this hour. I do stay right here, though, because I'll be back with CNN after a very short break with "What We Know."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
