Return to Transcripts main page
Isa Soares Tonight
Washington And Iran Trade More Threats As The U.S. Naval Blockade Of Iranian Ports In The Strait Of Hormuz Comes Into Effect; President Trump And Pope Leo Trade Barbs After The Pontiff Speaks Out Over The War In Iran; Newly-Elected Hungarian Prime Minister Peter Magyar Vows A Change And A Stronger Relationship With The EU; Protests, Anger In Ireland Over Spiraling Fuel Prices; Hungarian Voters Hand Victory To Peter Magyar; Non- Profits Marks 10 Years Fighting To End Slavery; U.S. House Rep. Swalwell Ends Bid For California Governor; Trump Lawsuit Vs. Wall Street Journal. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired April 13, 2026 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Christina Macfarlane in for Isa Soares. Tonight,
Washington and Iran trade more threats as the U.S. Naval blockade of Iranian ports in the Strait of Hormuz comes into effect.
We'll have the very latest on the war in the Middle East. Then, a growing spat between President Trump and Pope Leo after the pontiff speaks out over
the war in Iran. Plus, after his landslide victory in Hungary, Peter Magyar is vowing change and a stronger relationship with the EU.
We'll have all the reaction plus a lot more ahead this hour. Iran says its forces are on maximum combat alert as the U.S. changes war strategy after
official ceasefire talks break down. President Donald Trump just spoke to reporters in Washington confirming a U.S. Naval blockade of Iranian ports
is now in effect.
He warns any Iranian ships that come near the blockade will be eliminated in a quick and brutal way. Iran is responding with threats of its own. A
senior Iranian lawmaker vows any U.S. vessel that attempts to enforce the blockade will be sent to the bottom of the sea.
Well, the blockade is meant to inflict economic pain by stopping Iran from exporting its oil. That caused oil prices to jump to over a $100 a barrel.
And despite the showdown at sea, President Trump says the ceasefire with Iran is holding. He gave this update a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've been called this morning by the right people, the appropriate people, and they want to work
a deal. They would like to work a deal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it your anticipation, Mr. President, that other countries will assist in this effort to blockade Iran and those --
TRUMP: Yes, other countries are going to also.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which countries, sir?
TRUMP: We don't need other countries, frankly. But they've offered their services. We'll let it -- we'll let it be known probably tomorrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Well, there is no ceasefire in Lebanon, though. Israel is actually expanding ground operations and carrying out new strikes against
Hezbollah. We have teams across the region this hour and at the White House. Let's start with Kevin Liptak at the White House, and Clarissa Ward,
who is in Riyadh.
Kevin, as we were hearing just there from the President, I think one noteworthy thing he said in that gavel with the press earlier was that
other countries have apparently offered assistance with this blockade. Do we know any more about who he might be referring to, there?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: We aren't. And he said that there would be more details on who those countries are tomorrow. We have
gotten a clear picture of who will not be joining this effort. We heard from the British Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, earlier that the U.K.
wouldn't be involved.
We've heard from other NATO countries as well that as these active hostilities remain underway, that they don't think that they can
participate in this kind of effort. I think when you talk to White House officials, they are looking at countries in the gulf, you know, Saudi
Arabia, the United Arab Emirates.
Those are nations that they think may potentially get involved. But we haven't heard anything from them just yet, which leaves open the question
of whether this is going to be an effort that the President corrals a coalition to help enforce, or whether this will be a U.S. alone type of
initiative --
MACFARLANE: Kevin, I think -- unfortunately, we're going to have to halt you there because the audio is slightly off on your -- on your live there.
So, apologies for now. We'll try and come back to you. Let's move to Clarissa Ward who is in Riyadh for us.
So, Clarissa, this blockade now has been in effect for what? Five hours, and in that time, the President has been in quite a bit of Truth Social-
ing. I mean, a short time ago, he alleged that 34 ships made it through the Strait just yesterday. Do we know anything yet of what is currently
happening in the Strait?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, it appears, and this is according to marine traffic, Christina, which is a group that
monitors all maritime activity very closely in real time. It appears that two ships have been turned around in the Strait.
[14:05:00]
Now, that may possibly be an indication that this blockade is working. Again, we don't know exactly how they came to turn around in the sea, but
of course, we know that CENTCOM put out a notification to all seafarers earlier on in the day, warning them that any attempt to go in and out of
Iranian ports would result in them being interdicted, diverted and potentially even captured.
And they also set out the geographical parameters for this blockade, which extends the entire coastline of Iran. And this is significant because one
pipeline that Iran has, the Jask Terminal, allows it to export its oil without transiting through the Strait of Hormuz, because it comes out below
the Strait.
But now, we understand, according to the information we have from CENTCOM, that all of Iran's coastline ports, oil terminals and beyond is considered
part of this blockade. And this, according to some analysts, could be costing Iran about $270 million a day.
So, it's perhaps no surprise, Christina, that we're seeing some pretty strong rhetoric coming from Iran. You mentioned at the beginning of the
show, the acting Defense Minister saying their forces are at maximum combat readiness.
They have also warned their neighbors here in the gulf, Arab states that if their ports come under threat, all ports in the Gulf of Oman and in the
Persian Gulf will be at threat. And that's a threat, of course, that people here take quite seriously.
Christina, given how frequently infrastructure and ports in the gulf countries were struck by Iranian drones and missiles during the more
kinetic phase of this ceasefire. So, now every -- of this conflict -- sorry. So, now everybody is really waiting and watching to see what will
happen next.
Of course, multiple reports indicating that diplomatic efforts, shuttle diplomacy between the U.S. and Iran are continuing. Still nine days left on
the clock of that ceasefire. And for countries here in the gulf, the hope is that this can be resolved peacefully and quickly, but with an absolute
red line on the issue of the Strait of Hormuz remaining under any kind of Iranian control. Christina.
MACFARLANE: Clarissa, thank you. And just to go back to Kevin briefly now, we've got him back on the line. Kevin, just to pick up on what Clarissa was
saying there. I mean, do we know any more about those diplomatic talks continuing, whether there is still a line of communication after that
marathon session fell apart on Saturday?
LIPTAK: Well, according to President Trump, there is. He says that the Iranians called this morning, looking to make a deal, in his words. He
didn't say who placed the call -- who received the call from the United States.
But in his view, I think it's evident that this -- the failure of the Pakistan talks to yield a deal wasn't necessarily the end of the road.
And when you talk to administration officials, they view the blockade in Iran and in the Strait of Hormuz as an extension of the talks, as a way to
yield American leverage, to try and convince the Iranians to submit to some of the red lines that the President has laid out, specifically when it
comes to its nuclear program.
You know, the President insistent that they not be able to enrich uranium, that they remove the highly-enriched uranium that's believed to be buried
underground. And so, how long the President is willing to test that theory, I think is the big question.
This ultimately will become a test of each country's threshold to withstand a political and economic pain. Obviously, the President facing a lot of
blow-back for this war and for the increase in gas prices in the United States.
It's not clear how long the President is willing to wait this out, but as of now, it does seem as if the discussions are continuing with the added
pressure the President hopes at least of this blockade.
MACFARLANE: All right, Kevin Liptak from the White House there. Thank you for now. I want to turn to U.N. Maritime chief, who says no country has a
legal right to blocking -- block shipping in the Strait of Hormuz, calling it a dangerous precedent.
I want to turn now to more on the operation, and let's get the thoughts of senior Maritime Strategist Simon Kelly. He's a retired commodore with the
British Royal Navy. Thank you so much for joining us. So, as we were discussing there, this blockade has now been underway for some five hours.
Clarissa was reporting that two ships reportedly have now been turned around in the Strait of Hormuz. What we want to know is how this is likely
going to be working, and how complex an operation it is for the U.S. Navy to carry this out?
SIMON KELLY, RETIRED COMMODORE, BRITISH ROYAL NAVY: Yes, good afternoon -- good evening. It's -- to a certain extent actually for the -- for the U.S.
Navy, given that they have dominance of the air and dominance of the sort of intelligence picture.
[14:10:00]
There are -- there are elements of this that it should be business as usual for the U.S. Navy. So, what they'll be doing at the moment is they will be
tracking every contact that is coming from the coast or along the coastline and approaching the Strait of Hormuz.
And to a certain extent, actually, the paucity of traffic makes that easier to a certain extent. And so, they'll be tracking them, they'll be
understanding who is putting on their automatic recognition and what data is being put out from each one of the vessels.
And they'll be tracking them as they come out. And is -- they don't need to go into the gulf in order to execute this. They can sit off in
international waters off the Gulf of Oman, and they can, to a certain extent, wait for any vessels that come out to come to them.
At which point, they've got an absolute wealth of experience. So, the USS Ford carrier strike group, for example, was conducting these operations off
Venezuela just at the end of last year. And they've got U.S. Marines on Tripoli as well.
So, they've got a lot of resource to call on. And they've got a real dominance in the information space. So, actually, that part of it should be
fairly straightforward for the U.S. Navy. What follows is probably the more complex bit.
MACFARLANE: What do you mean by what follows?
KELLY: So, it's one thing to board these vessels. The question then sort of goes from the U.S. Navy into what do you do if you interdict them? Do you
force them into an anchorage? What do you do with the vessels once you've seized them?
And you can actually end up in a situation where it's difficult to understand what you do if you -- if these vessels start coming through. And
so, there's this -- there's potentially a complexity there. So, there may be a bit of a game of bluff happening here where if you make the threat
strong enough, then you don't see anyone coming through.
And then you will get to apply, you sort of reverse the Strait of Hormuz that has been used as leverage against the Americans. Actually, it can now
be used against the Iranians.
MACFARLANE: And thinking about how Iran are going to respond to this. I mean, obviously, we've been hearing the threats today to send vessels to
the bottom of the sea who attempt to, you know, down any U.S. vessels.
But the President has also threatened too, any of Iran's -- I think he said fast attack ships that might approach a Naval blockade, saying they too
will be eliminated. What do you expect in terms of a likely retaliation here from Iran?
KELLY: I think it's very difficult at this stage in the conflict to see how the Iranians could really affect the U.S. Naval operations in the -- in the
Gulf of Oman. Because what they've done is, they have absolutely destroyed what you'd call a sort of traditional Iranian Navy.
And so, their ability to project power out beyond their immediate coastline is really limited. They're sort of back into the Iranian Revolutionary
Guard Corps, Naval, sort of small craft. So, actually coming out and responding in some way to the U.S. Navy is going to be really challenging
for them, if not almost impossible.
MACFARLANE: Now, you served, I believe twice as commanding officer of the U.K. minehunters. So, you're in a very good position to talk about the
threat of mines right now in the Strait of Hormuz. I mean, how great a threat do you assess that to be? And do the U.S. have the capability to
deal with it?
KELLY: Yes, so early on in the conflict, U.S. Intelligence were indicating that they had identified -- the Iranians had laid up to a sort of 12 mines
somewhere in the region of the Strait of Hormuz. We've seen no evidence at all of them actually striking anything.
So, that's the first thing, we've seen nothing. We've also seen the U.S. send a couple of cruiser destroyers through the Strait. That gives you a
bit of confidence as well. And what the U.S. would be looking to do is, they'll be looking to set the conditions to get the sort of the new
generation of mine-hunting capabilities.
So, these are sort of underwater drones, large drones that you -- look like torpedoes to most people. They launch them off the back of a ship. They
could launch them from small vessels, and they will go undetected underneath, and they will create -- conduct a really detailed image of the
seabed.
And what they'll be looking to do is probably confirm that there are no mines there, because actually, that's what they really want to see. Because
as soon as you start discovering mines, you're then really not confident.
But I suspect that the Iranians haven't laid mines in that sort of main Strait. So, you confirm that, and you get that information out to the
international community, you can reassure shipping that this is a safe area to transit through.
MACFARLANE: Yes, so, these early hours will be crucial to determining that, no doubt. Commodore Simon Kelly, great to have your perspective. Thank you.
Now, Israeli strikes continue ahead of Tuesday's negotiations in Washington.
[14:15:00]
The President of Lebanon says he hopes the negotiations will result in a ceasefire. Joseph Aoun also said the talks are the sole responsibility of
Lebanon. In a reference to Israel's targeting of Hezbollah inside the country. Meanwhile, the head of the EU says peace in the Middle East must
include Lebanon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
URSULA VON DER LEYEN, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: We're also worried that the continuous strikes on Lebanon threaten to derail the entire
process. We are mobilizing relief EU stocks to provide immediate aid to the Lebanese people.
But no amount of aid can replace the safety of a permanent peace. A key lesson of the past weeks is that, security is indivisible. You cannot have
stability in the Middle East or the gulf while Lebanon is in flames.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Italy's Prime Minister is criticizing U.S. President Donald Trump for his swipes at Pope Leo XIV. In a statement, Prime Minister
Giorgia Meloni says, quote, "I find President Trump's words towards the holy father unacceptable."
She went on to say, it's natural for the leader of the Catholic Church to call for peace and to an end to wars. This comes as the pope and President
Trump trade back-and-forth remarks stemming from the war in Iran. The pope calling out the war and urging peace and mediation.
In response, the President saying he's not a fan of the pope, and that he's wrong about Iran. Well, CNN's Christopher Lamb takes a look at the conflict
between the pope and the president.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A U.S. President and a U.S. Pope in a very public war of words.
ROBERT FRANCIS PREVOST, POPE OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH: Welcome aboard.
LAMB: Leo XIV, responding to an extraordinary broadside against the Chicago-born pontiff by President Donald Trump. Speaking on board the papal
plane to journalists covering a major 11-city visit to Africa, the first American pope made it clear he won't be intimidated.
Leo not standing down as he emerges as a counterweight to Donald Trump's administration. He is forcefully rejecting criticism from Trump and firmly
defending his outspoken opposition to war.
PREVOST: I have no fear, neither the Trump administration nor speaking out loudly about the message of the gospel. And that's what I believe. I am
here to do what the church is called to do.
LAMB: The pontiff insisting the mission of the church is to build bridges, not engage in politics.
PREVOST: We're not politicians. We're not permitted to make foreign policies with the same perspective that he might understand it. But I do
believe that the message of the gospel; blessed are the peacemakers.
LAMB: Leo has repeatedly spoken out against Trump's actions in Iran. President Trump fired back on Sunday night, lashing out at the pope over
his criticism of the U.S. and Israel's war involving Iran.
TRUMP: We don't like it. We don't like a pope that's going to say that it's OK to have a nuclear weapon. We don't want a pope that says crime is OK in
our cities. I don't like it. I'm not a big fan of Pope Leo.
LAMB: On Truth Social, Trump went further, calling the pontiff weak on crime and terrible for foreign policy, even saying he prefers the pope's
brother, Louis Prevost, who has shown his support for MAGA. Upping the ante, Trump also posted an A.I. image on Truth Social, depicting himself as
a Christ-like figure, healing a sick person with American flags and eagles in the background. The image was later deleted.
TRUMP: I did post it, and I thought it was me as a doctor and had to do with Red Cross, as a Red Cross worker there, which we support, and only the
fake news could come up with that one. So, I just heard about it, and I said, how did they come up with that? It's supposed to be me as a doctor
making people better.
LAMB: Trump also claimed the pope was only elected last year because he is American, suggesting the Church chose him to better deal with his
presidency. Pope Leo has repeatedly condemned the use of religious language to frame the military operation in Iran.
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY, UNITED STATES: Rescued on Sunday, flown out of Iran as the sun was rising on Easter Sunday. A pilot reborn, all
home and accounted for a nation rejoicing. God is good.
PREVOST: Jesus is the King of Peace who rejects war, whom no one can use to justify war. He does not listen to the prayers of those who wage war, but
rejects them.
LAMB: A Vatican official, father Antonio Spadaro, saying Trump is attacking what he cannot control. A moral voice on the global stage, writing online,
Spadaro said that "Donald Trump targets Pope Leo XIV, and in doing so, reveals a deeper unease when political power turns against a moral voice,
it is often because it cannot contain it.
Trump does not argue with Leo. He implores him to return to a language he can control. But the pope speaks another language, one that cannot be
reduced to the grammar of force, security or national interest. This is where the Church's moral voice emerges, not as a counter-power, but as a
space in which power is judged by a standard it does not control.
[14:20:00]
Leo does not respond on the terrain of polemics, and for that very reason remains beyond its grasp. He is free." Christopher Lamb, CNN, Algiers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: Well, this all comes amid Pope Leo's ten-day trip to Africa. He'll travel across the continent with stops in Algeria, Cameroon, Angola
and Equatorial Guinea. Africa is a continent seeing a huge rise in Catholicism.
The Vatican says the Catholics on the continent make up 20 percent of the global faithful. Leo is the first Pope to visit Algeria, where mistrust of
western culture and Christianity is high. The pope is also seeking to improve Christian-Muslim relations.
All right, still to come tonight, Ireland calls in the military to protect oil deliveries. It's all part of the worldwide backlash to energy prices
spiraling higher. I'll speak to the country's Transport Minister next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACFARLANE: And we've been talking about the political and military implications of Donald Trump's move to blockade the Strait of Hormuz. But
the immediate impact is, of course, another spike in energy prices as you can see here.
Both European and U.S. benchmark oil prices are back to close to $100 a barrel. That's about 40 percent to 50 percent higher than where it was when
-- before the war with Iran began. Now, the anger and frustration at rising energy costs has reached a crisis point in Ireland.
This was the scene over the weekend as police and army escorted fuel tankers to Irish oil refineries. Protesters have been blocking roads to
refineries, demanding that the government take action to make energy more affordable.
In response, the Irish government said it would cancel almost $600 million worth of energy taxes. Gas prices have risen more than 12 percent across
Ireland in just the past month, and diesel has spiked even more, up 25 percent. Consumers say something must change.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER DUFFY, IRISH PROTESTER: Because with the price we're paying for fuel and probably two months away from my business folding up. People can't
absorb these increases in fuel. It's very difficult to pass it on to the -- it's very difficult to pass it on to the -- to the -- our customers.
And we're just -- we're just backed into a corner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:25:00]
MACFARLANE: Well, joining us now to talk more about the energy crisis in Ireland is the country's Minister of Transport, Darragh O'Brien. Minister,
thank you so much for your time this evening. In light of what we're about to discuss, what we saw there, the major unrest being felt in Ireland over
the disruption to fuel supplies.
I first just want to get your reaction to the blockade of the Strait of Hormuz that went into effect, you know, a couple of hours ago. And what
that is going to spell for Ireland?
DARRAGH O'BRIEN, MINISTER OF TRANSPORTATION, IRELAND: Well, look, firstly, just to say, de-escalation is what Ireland wants, what the European Union
wants. And we were somewhat heartened last week to see the ceasefire come into place.
I think normal business should -- what we want normal business to return. The world's supply of oil and gas is impacted by that. And that impact then
trickles down to our households, to our businesses. And I have to say is that this increase and these spikes we've seen in prices is like nothing I
have seen in my 20 years in national politics.
But I am pleased to say that the protests in Ireland, which are not the norm in this country, I might add, and certainly, nothing like we have
seen, have ended. And they ended peacefully. Ireland, thankfully, is a -- is a liberal democracy where we respect the rule of law, where we have the
near full employment in this country as well and a good stable, strong economy.
So, we are responding further to try to reduce the impact of cost increases. But no government is going to be able to soften the blow of
every price increase. But look, people are struggling unquestionably, businesses as well.
We're trying to manage these large increases that we have seen over the last number of weeks. So, obviously, it's in everyone's interest for the
war in the Middle East to cease completely. Like I'm always thinking about the humanitarian side of this, while we in Europe are obviously seeing the
impacts to our households, our businesses have increase in prices.
We've seen thousands upon thousands of people killed in the -- in the escalation of this conflict. And we want that to end --
MACFARLANE: Yes --
O'BRIEN: So, every government and Ireland -- sorry, excuse me.
MACFARLANE: I'm sorry to interrupt, but I just -- I wanted to mention that Ireland, I think, has been the biggest display we've seen so far, really,
in terms of an outpouring of frustration over what is happening in the Middle East.
And that's why it's been, you know, really hitting the news. And just to go back on what you were -- what you were proposing, what your government had
proposed yesterday, your Prime Minister announced a package of nearly, I think, $600 million of relief measures on top of that, 250 million euro tax
break approved nearly three weeks ago.
You said these protests are over. They've been quelled. But I mean, how confident are you that this will last, and that this is going to be enough?
O'BRIEN: Well, I think look, any intervention that we make and unfortunately, we're seeing crises far more often now if we only have to
look at the outbreak of the war in Ukraine, we've only, you know, got to look back at COVID and the government that I've been part of, have tried to
deploy the resources that we have on behalf of our people to try to make a sustainable impact in a positive way.
To keep jobs, to sustain jobs in our economy, and then also to make sure that we can -- we can help with those increasing costs by targeting our
resources at those who need it most. Ireland is an island nation. And obviously, you know, importation of fuel, and then in particular, fossil
fuel is still important.
Diesel, petrol in particular for our transport sector. So, at the pumps, people have seen, you know, really sharp increases there. I am confident,
though, to answer your question, that the measures that we have taken, and this is a second set of measures that we've taken in a very short space of
time, will have a positive impact in that regard.
They're actually the highest and the largest intervention that any government in the European Union has made. But I think it speaks further
that as well, that all of us have to continue that transition to renewable sources of energy.
And just in the month of March, nearly 50 percent of our electricity was generated by renewables, by wind, by solar. And that's like doubled in ten
years. And all of us within the European Union and within Europe in general, have to accelerate that transition and the electrification of our
societies, because we are at -- you know, we're at the whim of global events. We always will be --
MACFARLANE: But we are -- we are in --
O'BRIEN: We know that --
MACFARLANE: Unprecedented times, aren't we? I mean, let's be honest. The -- you know, barrel of oil now over -- or evening out around $100 a barrel.
You know, we have Donald Trump with a full blockade of the Strait right now, and we have no indication yet that there's going to be ongoing
negotiations to sort this out.
We're in unprecedented times. And just to go back to the situation that's unfolded in Ireland, what's been, I think quite strange for those of us
looking on, on this, is that your protest, the protests that have emerged were actually targeted around the fuel supplies in Ireland shutting down, I
think at one stage a third of the gas stations in the country.
So, these were pretty extreme measures from the public to get the government's attention on this issue, right? But with the price, the hike
we've seen in fuel prices over the past month, isn't this something the Irish government should have seen coming before Ireland was brought to a
standstill?
[14:30:05]
O'BRIEN: Well, I think what it shows as well is in any country it doesn't require a very large amount of protesters to block certain parts of our
infrastructure and that's what happened. There was a targeting of our refinery in particular which is a very important piece of national
infrastructure and lessons will certainly be learned from that. There are many people in Ireland feeling the impact of the energy crisis but I think
you'll see from the number at the protests it didn't have to be a significant amount.
There were genuine people on those protests, unquestionably those who were really concerned about what was happening. There were other elements though
too who basically you know used the protests as a vehicle for other messages to be brought forward but what I am happy to see and pleased to
see is that that has de-escalated now without violence to be fair. There was no violence in those protests to speak of, very, very few arrests as
well at that.
And really what it is a question of is the government being able to respond in a flexible way and to retain that flexibility. You know, because as you
rightly said, no one knows unfortunately what's going to happen next week or the week after.
What we need to ensure is that we have our reserves in place and Ireland actually has a robust reserve of fuels and we have planned for these
eventualities. Perversely, what happened during the protests is the supplies that we had on the islands which are sufficient and the
distribution of those supplies was hampered and that's fundamentally what happened but I don't want to escalate that any further. I've engaged with
representative groups in a very constructive way through the recognized representative organizations. We've agreed a package to move forward.
But every government in Europe and across the world is grappling with this situation. So, we have to retain the ability to respond again, but in a
sustainable way. Because I'm very acutely aware as a government minister that the finances that I manage are managed on behalf of our citizens in
this republic. And what your viewers have seen over the last week is not the norm in Ireland.
MACFARLANE: Yes.
O'BRIEN: We're a very open, we're a liberal country, we have people from all across the world who have seen Ireland and made Ireland their home and
we welcome that. And thankfully, an economy that is successful that supports our society. But not everyone feels that, and we get that too, and
that's why it's our job to continue to grow jobs, to continue to improve quality of life for our citizens, and to work together to help our citizens
through this global crisis that has been caused by the war in the Middle East.
MACFARLANE: And as you say it is more than just Ireland, of course, grappling with this global crisis. Minister Darragh O'Brien we really
appreciate you joining us, thank you.
O'BRIEN: You're very welcome.
MACFARLANE: All right. Still to come tonight, Hungary making a political shift away from Viktor Orban. What the change could mean for the country.
We'll speak to a former government official in Budapest right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:00]
MACFARLANE: Tension between Budapest and Brussels could come to an end after a landslide victory for the center-right Tisza Party and its leader
Peter Magyar who will take the reins of the Hungarian government. Sunday's election was a rejection of the far-right anti-E.U. pro-Trump and pro-
Kremlin Viktor Orban who has survived, who had served as prime minister for the last 16 years.
His defeat was celebrated in the streets where some people chanted Russia go home. Today, Hungary's incoming leader promised to break the reliance on
oil from Moscow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER MAGYAR, INCOMING HUNGARIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We are unable to change geography. Russia will be here -- Hungary will be
here. But we will try to diversify. That doesn't mean that we want to detach ourselves. We want to buy oil at low prices and securely. But the
Druzhba, the friendship oil pipeline and what's happened there, we can see that it threatens Hungary's energy supply, or what's happening in Tehran,
in Iran, that threatens our energy supply.
So, it is not -- it is in the interest of Hungary to diversify our energy mix and energy supply as much as possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Well, joining us from Budapest, Balint Magyar is the former Hungarian minister for education and now a senior research fellow with the
Central European University's Democratic Institute. And a side note, though they share the same last name, there is no relation to the incoming prime
minister, I think we should just mention. Thank you so much for joining us this evening.
As we've been reporting here on CNN all day, this wasn't just a win, of course, for the teaser party. It was a thumping two thirds majority win
with major implications for Hungary, Europe and beyond. I mean, I've been hearing some people describe it as regime change. Is that how it feels
there in Budapest today?
BALINT MAGYAR, FORMER HUNGARIAN MINISTER FOR EDUCATION: There is a great joy over the streets and over the country. And especially there was a
generational shift that could be considered because it's such a high turnout on the part of the youngsters, never happened in Hungarian history
in the last 35 years.
And really, regime change is -- means much more than just a government change. A regime change means, on one hand, that you should restore the
constitutional state and the system of checks and balances. On the other hand, to destroy this mafia type governance of Hungary, when a clan of
Orban led by Viktor Orban, the prime minister of Hungary, just looted the Hungarian economy and the Hungarian citizens.
And the third aspect, of course, it's also very important that Hungary should not be governed anymore as a puppet state of Russia. And when we are
speaking about the problem of oil and gas supply to Hungary, Hungary had four years after the breaking of the Russian aggression against Ukraine to
diversify its oil and gas imports from Russia. But they didn't do it, just the contrary.
In 2022, 61 percent of the Hungarian oil consumption came from Russia. And now, last year it was over 90 percent. So, it's a dirty relation, a corrupt
relation with Russia, where this clan earns a lot on this and at the same time finances that cruel aggression of Russia against Ukraine.
MACFARLANE: Yes, and this does seem to be a very much representative of that shift away from Russia that people in Hungary want to see.
[14:40:00]
On the question of the new prime minister, some are questioning if Magyar represents a true break with the past, because he was once a staunch Orban
loyalist, he worked in his government, known to have, you know, selective populist views. What's your take on what type of prime minister he's going
to be? And if he will, to your point, be able to break this sort of mafia state that Orban has created?
MAGYAR: Yes. The two-third majority helps in this, because it's much more easy in such a way to do that. And I think that Peter Magyar could fulfil
this role only because he personally was not corrupt within this regime. Of course, he has some positions in it, second-rate positions, I would say,
not leading political positions at all, which were not political positions, but much more technical ones. And -- but he was not corrupt. Otherwise, he
could not be in this position, in the situation that he could fulfil this role as a leader of changing the regime.
And I think most of the people think that it's a sincere will on his side, really, to do this all. If you think of this, that the last two years
practically meant permanent campaign. When he visited more than 700 settlements in Hungary, a lot of them, even not one time, met a lot of
people and got acquainted with the reality of Hungary, the poverty in the countryside in the rural areas, met a lot of entrepreneurs who were
targeted of central-led corporate trading and deprived from their properties, the bad situation in the hospitals and the corruption.
MACFARLANE: Yes. I mean, and as the prime minister laid out in his first statement earlier, obviously, you know, he's signaling a break with the
past on many levels, not least closer ties to the European Union. So, we'll continue to watch very closely as he takes his first steps in office. But
for now, Balint Magyar, thank you so much for your comments. Thank you.
MAGYAR: Thank you very much.
MACFARLANE: I'm going to take a short break. Stay with us. We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACFARLANE: The Global Sustainability Network is marking a decade in its quest to abolish modern slavery in all its forms.
[14:45:00]
Leaders from the worlds of politics, business, religion, media, and more make up the ranks of its nonprofit organization, which recently came
together to celebrate the milestone. As we prepare to mark My Freedom Day this week on CNN, Becky Anderson takes an in-depth look at the group's
work.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Today, leaders of the worlds religions have come together to form a historic initiative to
eradicate modern slavery.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): History was made back more than a decade ago, when leaders from many of the world's major religions
gathered at the Vatican to ask a single, urgent question how do we end modern slavery?
POPE FRANCIS, CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translator): Each human being, a man, a woman, a child is an image of God, and each human being is a free
person who has the right to exist in equality and fraternity.
AMANPOUR: The global freedom network welcomes your support and practical action to eradicate modern slavery once and for all.
ANDERSON (voice-over): The meeting, moderated by CNN's Christiane Amanpour, sparked an idea in Pakistani born businessman Raza Jafar.
RAZA JAFAR, FOUNDER, GLOBAL SUSTAINABILITY (through translator): It's a very dark and difficult subject to deal with, but when you bring people
together, it gives all of us strength to have a much bigger impact.
ANDERSON (voice-over): The global sustainability network, or GSN, was designed to be an answer. It's an international alliance of modern
abolitionists working across all borders and belief systems. Members from all over the world gathered recently in Abu Dhabi to celebrate GSN's 10th
anniversary.
SHEIKH NAHYAN BIN MUBARAK, UAE'S MINISTER OF TOLERANCE AND COEXISTENCE: It's a great pleasure to be with you this evening as we mark this important
anniversary of the global sustainability network.
ANDERSON (voice-over): Among the dignitaries in attendance, the UAE's minister of tolerance and coexistence, Sheikh Nahyan bin Mubarak and
Sudan's former prime minister, Dr. Abdalla Hamdock.
ABDALLA HAMDOCK, FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF SUDAN: Modern slavery is a stigma on humanity. We thought with all the struggle that went into ending slavery
in the world, that we saw the end of it, but it is still there.
ANDERSON (voice-over): The evening involved a call to action, encouraging everyone to wear a White Freedom pom-pom, a small adornment designed to
start a larger conversation about modern slavery.
MAREN KRASS, FOUNDER, HEARTS ON A MISSION: We're working with victims of slavery, and we want to give them -- we want -- we don't want to see them
as victims. We want to make them to heroes.
ANDERSON (voice-over): Its empathy that defines the network's efforts and inspires optimism for the future.
DR. CATHERINE O'FARRELL, FOUNDER & CEO, INCLUZAN: Young people are going to be the leaders and decision makers of tomorrow, so the more informed,
empowered and educated they are, the better our leadership will be in the future.
ANDERSON (voice-over): And sometimes the most powerful voices are also the youngest.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON (voice-over): Twelve-year-old True El-Deeb wrote this song for those who don't yet have a voice.
TRUE EL-DEEB, SINGER: Everyone can serve a purpose here, no matter how old they are. Even I like -- I'm very honored to be helping and contributing,
and I know anyone out there in the world can help.
JAFAR: We all can do a lot every day. We can express and join the Freedom Movement by simply having our voice, by wearing our voice. So, my message
to everybody is wear your voice. Let everybody hear your fight for freedom.
ANDERSON (voice-over): Becky Anderson, CNN, Abu Dhabi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: And coming up on Wednesday, join CNN for My Freedom Day, a student-driven worldwide event to raise awareness of modern-day slavery.
Follow the hashtag MyFreedomDay on social media and check it out on cnn.com/myfreedomday.
Now, President Trump versus The Wall Street Journal. We'll tell you what the judge had to say after the U.S. president sued the newspaper for $10
billion over a report. The latest ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:00]
MACFARLANE: U.S. lawmakers in both parties want Congressman Eric Swalwell to resign months before his term is up. The Democrat has already withdrawn
from the California governor's race amid sexual misconduct allegations. A former staffer for Swalwell told CNN the Congressman raped her when she was
heavily intoxicated and left her bruised and bleeding. Swalwell strongly denies the allegations.
Donald Trump's legal team say they'll refile a defamation lawsuit against the Wall Street Journal. This after a federal judge dismissed the lawsuit
without prejudice, meaning the U.S. president could file an amended complaint. President Trump sued the Journal for $10 billion, all over an
article reporting on a lewd birthday greeting to the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. The judge ruled that the president did not meet the actual
malice standard for public figures.
CNN's Chief Media Analyst Brian Stelter joins us now. So, Brian, this is kind of another blow to the Trump administration's efforts to use the legal
system to take on media outlets he finds critical of him.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Yes, it's a very important ruling by this judge because of all the lawsuits we've covered involving the
president. This was the first time a sitting U.S. president had sued a news outlet over a story he did not like.
Yes, Trump had filed suits when he was out of office in exile. He had sued CNN, for example, back then. That case was thrown out and then rejected by
an appeals court. But this lawsuit against the Wall Street Journal, Trump filed it last summer, I think partly in order to muddy the waters and to
sow doubt about whether that image from the Epstein birthday book was actually genuine, was actually from him or not.
So, he filed this lawsuit against his often friend, sometimes foe, Rupert Murdoch, who controls the Wall Street Journal. And it was an extraordinary
escalation of his campaign against the media. He has since sued the New York Times and the BBC and threatened other news outlets. But here he is
going after the Journal. And today a judge in Miami said this doesn't add up. He said there's no evidence that the Journal acted with actual malice,
which is the very high legal standard that the president would have to prove in order to succeed in court.
Essentially, the Journal tried hard to ask for comment ahead of time, tried to fact check, had no reason to believe this was anything but a legitimate
document. And that's why it went ahead and ran the story. So, the Journal is on very firm legal ground. But it's not just me saying that. It's now a
federal judge.
And the Trump administration has responded. Actually, Trump's personal lawyers have responded. They say they're going to refile the lawsuit. They
have four weeks to do so, to try again with an amended complaint. But this is a big blow to the president in his legal crusade against news outlets.
MACFARLANE: Yes, and it's difficult timing for him as well, isn't it, as he tries to sort of manage the fallout from the Epstein files after Melania
Trump put it back on the agenda just a couple of days ago.
STELTER: And many people believe that she was trying to get ahead of something. We don't yet know what she might have been trying to get ahead
of. But that incredibly unusual speech, that statement, it has continued to have repercussions. We've heard from Jeffrey Epstein victims and survivors
who responded to the first lady, who have taken her up on her call for public hearings and congressional action.
[14:55:00]
So, this continues to be one of the probably the single biggest hurdle or challenge that the president Trump faces, especially from his own party,
from his own base. Many Trump supporters have their own questions about the Epstein files and Trump suing against the journal, trying to claim the
journal had made up something about the Epstein birthday book. Maybe that was a smart PR stunt for one day. But this ruling by the judge today, it
shows how Trump's short-term PR victories don't really pay off in the long- term.
MACFARLANE: Yes, an important development. Brian, thanks for breaking it down. Appreciate you.
And finally, tonight, some happy news for all animal lovers. Canberra traps photographed this jaguar high up in the Merendon mountain range of
Honduras. It's the first time the big cat known as the cloud jaguar has been detected there in a decade. This is what it looks like. A wildcat
conservation group Panthera spotted the young male on February the sixth up in the high-altitude forest. It's a really positive sign for the Central
American nation, attempting an environmental turnaround and a special couple of pictures to end our show on tonight.
Thank you so much for joining us. Stay with CNN. "What We Know" with Max Foster is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
