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Isa Soares Tonight
Historic Talks Between Israel And Lebanon Wrap Up For The Day In Washington As President Trump Hints U.S.-Iran Talks Could Resume Soon; President Trump Turns Against Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni Over Spat With Pope Leo; Moscow Funneling Russian University Students Into The Military As Russia Faces Mounting Losses On The Battlefield In Ukraine; How Russia Targets Students For Military Recruitment; Trump Blasting Pope Again; Trump Attacks Italian PM Meloni; Children In Lagos With "Freedom Day" Success. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired April 14, 2026 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, historic talks between Israel and
Lebanon wrap up for the day in Washington as U.S. President Donald Trump hints U.S.-Iran talks could resume soon.
We'll have the very latest for you on the war in the Middle East. Then President Trump turns against Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni as a
spat over his comments on Pope Leo rumbles on. Plus, as Moscow faces mounting losses on the battlefield in Ukraine, we have a CNN investigation
that shows Russian universities are funneling students into the military. That, and much more ahead.
But first, this hour, the White House says there's hope for a new round of negotiations with Iran, while Israel and Lebanon hold historic negotiations
in Washington. U.S. President Donald Trump told the "New York Post" earlier that something could be happening in the next two days in Pakistan.
But actually, didn't go -- provide any more details than that. Administration officials say there are signs talks may begin again soon,
though Iranian state media report there's still no decision on the matter.
It is the first full day meantime of an American blockade, and traffic data appears to show that at least, nine commercial ships passed through the
Strait of Hormuz since Monday, and that includes a Chinese-owned oil tanker sanctioned by the U.S.
U.S. Central Command says six vessels turned around and returned to Iranian ports. U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio took part, meantime, in the
first direct talks between the Israelis and the Lebanese in 40 years, which just wrapped up in the last hour or so.
Rubio says he's hopeful for a positive as well as permanent solution to the crisis. And just moments ago, in fact, the Israeli ambassador to the U.S.
spoke in Washington D.C., this is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YECHIEL LEITER, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: OK, good afternoon. Talks began with a statement, very encouraging statement.
Secretary of State, Rubio, I was honored to sit around negotiating table with his Excellency Michel Issa; United States Ambassador to Lebanon, and
to her Excellency Nada Hamadeh; the Lebanese ambassador to Washington.
We discovered today that we're on the same side of the equation, and that's the most positive thing we could have come away with. We are both united in
liberating Lebanon from an occupation power dominated by Iran called Hezbollah.
Lebanon is under their occupation, and we are suffering from their constant barrage of missiles and terror attacks trying to cross our border. We
talked about a number of things and most importantly, the vision, the long- term vision, where there will be a clearly delineated border between our countries.
And we're the only reason we'll need to cross each other's territory will be in business suits to conduct business or in bathing suits to go on
vacation. We made it very clear that the security of our civilians is not up for negotiation.
That is understood by the government of Joseph Aoun, and I must say, this was a victory for sanity, for responsibility, and for peace. Because the
head of Hezbollah warned the government of Lebanon yesterday not to participate in these talks.
And the government of Joseph Aoun bravely said no to Hezbollah. And this is the beginning of a very strong and fortified, consistent battle against
Hezbollah. They are weakened as they've never been. And together, we'll continue to rid the threat of this Iranian proxy, which is so maligned and
so malignant in the region.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:05:00]
SOARES: And that was Israeli ambassador to the U.S. speaking there following those talks. Let's get more on this, our Jeremy Diamond, as you
can see there is in Tel Aviv for the latest on those talks between Israel and Lebanon.
Also with us is our Kevin Liptak, who joins us from Washington. And Kevin, we played a bit of what we heard from the Israeli ambassador, it does seem
there was some positive signs from both sides. The fact -- the length of course, of these discussions, these talks are significant in itself.
But what he said, we're on the same side of the equation. Both united in liberating Lebanon from Hezbollah. I mean, it's a great starting point,
given, you know, they haven't spoken to each other in, what? Thirty years or so in 3 decades. What did you take away from what we heard so far?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, and I think it's clear that the United States is very interested in getting whatever kind of
agreement can be reached across the finish line. Remember, just some background on how these talks actually began, which was last week when
President Trump gets on -- got on the phone for three consecutive days with the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu.
And told him, one, to scale down the Israeli attacks in Lebanon, and two, to agree to come to Washington and begin these talks with the fear that the
ongoing Israeli bombardment in that country was going to undermine his attempts to reach a ceasefire deal with Iran.
Now, of course, those Iran ceasefire talks are ongoing. They were not successful over the weekend, but they do seem to be holding out hope that
the diplomatic wheels continue to turn. But the question of this war, the war in Lebanon, I think, is still sort of an unresolved one.
And at least, in President Trump's view, that is not something that he wants to undermine the overall peace efforts. And so, at least, from the
perspective of the White House, getting these two sides in the same table at the State Department today was a very positive first step.
But of course, where it goes from here remains unknown. You know, Hezbollah itself is obviously not at the negotiating table, and as we heard from the
ambassador there, that's the key irritant in all of this. And so, how they resolve that in this remains to be seen.
Of course, part of the ceasefire negotiations with Iran, the U.S. has set this red line that Iran ceases all support for its proxies, which obviously
includes Hezbollah. That's not something that we understand has been one of the key sticking points.
Those seem to be centered around Iran's nuclear ambitions. So, how that's resolved, we don't know quite yet. But clearly, I think some positive
momentum on the -- on this front today here in Washington, but obviously, not completely resolved just yet.
SOARES: Indeed. Let me go then to Jeremy. And Jeremy, that is the crucial point, isn't it? That Hezbollah is not involved here, not part of
negotiation, doesn't even recognize, in fact, these negotiations. From the Israeli side, of course, we have heard from them.
They will not stop fighting in Lebanon unless, of course, there's a disarmament from Hezbollah side. What is then the motivation for the
Israeli side for being in these talks?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, the main motivation is, President Trump and his pressure on the Israelis to engage in these
negotiations, and to also scale back their strikes in Lebanon so that they could take place, and so that the broader U.S.-Iran ceasefire agreement
would not unravel altogether.
As we've seen -- heard from President Trump today, he's still quite eager to continue pursuing this diplomatic track with Iran. And that also means
that the Israelis have to pursue their diplomatic track with the Lebanese government as it relates to Hezbollah.
But one thing that we did not hear from the Israeli ambassador to Washington there, was that Israel has agreed to a ceasefire, and that was,
of course, the principal demand that the Lebanese government was going into these negotiations with, was to press for a ceasefire agreement so that the
negotiations over Hezbollah's disarmament could actually begin to take place.
So, you know, that -- we'll have to see how the Lebanese come out of this - - of these negotiations. Whether they are as rosy and optimistic as the Israeli ambassador was, and whether there was some kind of agreement about
the extent to which Israel will either agree to a ceasefire or a drastic scaling back of its attacks in Lebanon.
We've already seen to a certain extent, some scaling back of those attacks. No attacks in Beirut, for example since late last week, although,
nonetheless Israeli strikes in southern Lebanon have continued with at least, 35 people killed over the past 24-hour period, according to the
Lebanese Health Ministry.
SOARES: Thank you very much. We'll have the very latest, of course, as soon as we hear from the Lebanese side, we'll bring that to your attention.
Thank you, gentlemen, great to see you both. I do want to stay with the story and turn our attention to Beirut for some perspective -- or really,
on the historic talks underway in Washington.
[14:10:00]
Gebran Bassil is a member of Lebanon's parliament. He's also a former Lebanese Foreign Minister. Foreign Minister, great to see you on the show,
great to have you on the show. Let me get first, your take of what we've just heard in the last few minutes.
In fact, we played a snippet of it from the Israeli ambassador to the U.S., saying "we are on the same side of the equation. We're both united in
liberating Lebanon from Hezbollah." Hezbollah, of course, not part of these negotiations. How optimistic are you?
GEBRAN BASSIL, MEMBER OF LEBANESE PARLIAMENT: Actually, thank you for inviting me to your show. And you know, first, we have to see how much the
Israeli government is really willing to take the path of peace, because the Lebanese position is clear.
Lebanon never waged a war against anybody. Lebanon was always in a position of self-defense. And the big mistake that was made by Hezbollah and the
support of the Gaza war, and in support plainly of Iran, put us in a different position and in a different situation, that is costing us very
much.
So, we have to make sure first, that the Israeli government is willing to have a ceasefire, is willing to withdraw from the Lebanese territories, and
is willing to halt any hostilities.
SOARES: Oh, I think his signal has just frozen. We seem to have lost you. We're going to try and refresh. We got him. We got Mr. Bassil with us. Mr.
Bassil, are you still with us? No, unfortunately, we're having technical issues with Mr. Bassil.
We're going to try and reconnect and we'll get back to him in just a moment. I do want to turn, though, to the United States, because the
President of the European Council says the blockade is never the answer.
He is criticizing the U.S. operation against Iranian ports, saying international law must be respected. But there are no signs it may be
lifted any time soon. And as I was telling you in the last ten minutes, the blockade is a huge undertaking, requiring more than 10,000 troops and 12
warships.
That is according to U.S. Central Command. I want to get more from our Zachary Cohen in Washing -- in Washington. Zach, I suppose the question is,
when is, you know -- how is this actually working? Because when is a blockade not a blockade? Because we're getting lots of mixed signals here.
ZACHARY COHEN, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, absolutely. And even the success of this U.S. blockade is still an open question. U.S.
Central Command really saying that they have successfully managed to prevent any ships coming or going from Iranian ports, from passing the
blockade, chalking that up as a -- as a metric of success so far, pointing out that they have turned away six ships that were coming from Iranian
ports and forced them to return from where they came.
But at the same time, a U.S. official re-emphasizing to CNN today, that this U.S. blockade only applies to the ships transiting from and to Iranian
ports. Now, obviously, this U.S. blockade comes after Iran effectively shut down the Strait of Hormuz, the rest of it.
So, you have a blockade on a blockade sort of a situation here. And it's raising a lot of questions, particularly in the minds of the shipping
industry, where the confidence remains low, that they can safely send their ships and their tankers through this key waterway.
And that is something that we have started to see the U.S. Navy and U.S. Central Command try to bolster in the last 24 hours. We're told by that
same U.S. official that the U.S. Navy has been communicating with merchant vessels that have not yet entered the Strait, telling them that it is safe
to do so, and encouraging them to take that next step.
We saw two U.S. Navy destroyers transit the Strait of Hormuz over the weekend as those negotiations in Pakistan were taking place. A show of
confidence -- a confidence-building exercise, if you will, from the U.S. side.
As the Trump administration knows that this really does come down to the confidence level of the shipping industry itself. So, the broader impact of
this, though, also remains unclear. We're effectively in a standoff situation where we're waiting to see if the Iranians or the U.S. side
blinks first ahead of these potential next rounds of diplomatic talks.
The Iranians insist that they still maintain leverage in their ability to shut down the Strait of Hormuz, maintaining a -- still some of their
capability as far as fast-attack boats go, things that can threaten these tankers if no deal is reached.
And on the U.S. side, they believe they can outlast the Iranians as the economic effects will continue to wear down its domestic economy. So, we
have to wait and see, but the Trump administration is still pushing for a diplomatic resolution, which I'm told the shipping industry also requires
if it is going to resume transiting the Strait of Hormuz.
SOARES: Yes, and President Trump hinting that something could happen in the next two days, but didn't give us any more details on that front. What do
we know about this U.S.-sanctioned Chinese-owned tanker, which passed through the Strait of Hormuz today.
[14:15:00]
Do we know, I mean, how that happened? Did they just bypass the U.S.? Did they get a green-light from the United States?
COHEN: Yes, it remains unclear, it appears -- and it's important to note, though, that this ship may not have originated from an Iranian port. And
that is really the parameters under which this U.S. blockade is being enforced. And so, we have seen even from a marine traffic data that
multiple Iranian-linked ships have also managed to transit the Strait since this blockade took effect.
But those ships did not come from Iranian ports either. But to the point about China, and I think this is an important one as well, the Chinese
government and Defense Ministry has said that they will effectively challenge or call the Trump administration on its pledge to enforce this
blockade.
They insist that they have the right to -- for its ships to transit the Strait of Hormuz under its agreements, existing agreements with Iran. So,
China potentially, one risk here of expanding the conflict as the Chinese get more involved, potentially, unless a diplomatic resolution is reached.
SOARES: Zach, really appreciate it. Zachary Cohen there for us in Washington. I told you we'll try and fix the connection there in Beirut.
From that perspective on the historic talks on the way in Washington, at the top of the show, we brought you the Israeli ambassador to the U.S., who
was just speaking.
We haven't heard from, obviously, the Lebanese side, but I was speaking to Gebran Bassil; a member of Lebanon's parliament, a former Lebanese Foreign
Minister, who joins me from Beirut. Gebran, I hope you are still with us. I think we've connected. I think you can hear me now. Can I just double-check
that you can hear me?
BASSIL: Yes, I can hear you, sorry for the connection --
SOARES: Wonderful. I'm glad you are back with us. Let me just -- you were saying obviously, we have to see what the Lebanese come out with. We have
to see what the Israeli side has promised. But let me ask you what a question that I'm sure many viewers will be asking today, which is, you
know, we keep hearing that the Lebanese government has very limited leverage over Hezbollah.
At the same time, we have seen the Israeli military degrade parts of Hezbollah. The minister just said that -- the ambassador said that they are
weakened in the last few minutes. So, just explain to our viewers, why the Lebanese Armed Forces cannot disarm it? Is it a question of capacity or
political will when it comes to Hezbollah?
BASSIL: It is related to both sides. It is on one hand that Hezbollah is not a military wing in Lebanon. Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese
population, and it was created because of the occupation of Lebanon by the Israeli Defense Forces. This is on one hand.
On the other hand, Hezbollah was given the legitimacy for long years by the Lebanese government to be taking this job or mission of defending Lebanon.
And with time, it gained strength. And this was supposed to be in defense of Lebanon, not in supporting Gaza, nor in supporting Iran.
And that's why Hezbollah has lost its legitimacy. Not the popular one from his -- you know, community, but from big sections of the Lebanese people,
because he is no more only defending Lebanon. He also attacked Israel in an agenda that is not Lebanese.
And now the situation is that the Lebanese army is not old enough to do the job on one hand, and on the other hand, the Lebanese army cannot fight its
own population. So, this has to be into a political process, and combined with many other factors that would be convincing or obliging or pressuring
Hezbollah -- abiding by Lebanese defense strategy --
SOARES: Yes --
BASSIL: That will defend Lebanon, and that will put the decision in the hands of the Lebanese army and the Lebanese constitutional institutions.
SOARES: I heard you say, pressurize Hezbollah. What would then convince or force Hezbollah to put down their weapons? Are you talking about a full
Israeli withdrawal here? Are you talking about security guarantees, some sort of regional deal, perhaps, involving Iran? Or do you think the
disarmament simply not on the table at all?
BASSIL: No, this is a multi-faceted process. On one hand, we should not let control of foreign interference into Lebanese affairs, whether it is -- and
on the other hand, we should have a full liberation of the occupied Lebanese territories that accompanied completely with a sudden and
immediate --
SOARES: Yes --
[14:20:00]
BASSIL: Seize of the released -- decision. You know, and in that process --
SOARES: Yes --
BASSIL: Because as I said, to be multi-faceted in a way to convince or to pressure the whole organization of Hezbollah and --
SOARES: Gebran, I'm sorry --
BASSIL: Yes, it can be --
SOARES: To interrupt, I'm sorry to interrupt. Unfortunately, your connection isn't great, and we're listening to -- we can only hear every
other word, which is a real because this is a discussion I did want to have. So, apologies for interrupting you there.
Connectivity problems as you can see there. We'll try again and see if we can get a better quality before we bring that to your attention. Still to
come tonight, though, the war in Europe, Ukraine's President arrives in Germany. How Volodymyr Zelensky is working to keep the pressure on his
allies. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, the war against Iran has drawn attention from many across the world, fighting is ongoing between Russia and Ukraine. Both sides accuse
each other of violating a Kremlin-declared Easter ceasefire on Sunday.
And while the stunning defeat of Viktor Orban in Hungary may revoke Kyiv's biggest opponent, of course, in Europe, Ukrainian President Volodymyr
Zelenskyy is keeping the pressure on his biggest allies. Today in Berlin, Mr. Zelenskyy received military honors.
Ukraine's President and German Chancellor Merz signed a deal to work on drones and battlefield technology, and discuss NATO's multi-billion-dollar
defense funding program.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT, UKRAINE (through translator): I am a 100 percent sure that Europe, the EU, together with Ukraine, will produce anti-
ballistic systems. It is a matter of time. Yes. And while we do not have this, while there is a deficit with this, we must protect our families, our
people. And for this, we need the PURL Program.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Fred Pleitgen joins me now from Berlin. So, Fred, I mean, you've been covering this war with Ukraine since the very beginning. How
significant then is this -- was this meeting there in Germany?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's highly significant for both the Ukrainians and the Germans, especially
right now as a lot of things are really in flux in international politics.
On the one hand, of course, you have a lot of the attention drawn away from the war in Ukraine, which is absolutely still going on full steam.
[14:25:00]
Because of that military confrontation between the United States, Israel and Iran, and that, of course, has real consequences for the Ukrainians on
the battlefield. And one of the things that they're very concerned about in Kyiv is whether or not, they're going to have enough interceptor missiles
to counter Russian ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, and of course, also drones.
The Ukrainian President was talking about the PURL Program, which is, of course, a program by which European NATO partners buy weapons from the
United States. A lot of those are ammunition and these interceptor missiles, and then give those to the Ukrainians.
And of course, especially as far as interceptor missiles are concerned, there is now a big question-mark because the U.S., Israel and other
countries used so many to counter Iranian drones in that military confrontation.
So, one of the things that we're seeing today was the Europeans and especially the Germans, of course, today, and the Ukrainians going out and
saying, look, we want to start producing more of this ourselves, and there's going to be deeper defense cooperation.
And that's also, of course, a signal to the Russians as well, that the Ukrainians, their European partners in this case, first and foremost, the
Germans, are saying, look, we're in this for the long run. Ukraine is going to get support from European nations and the Germans for an extended period
of time.
And of course, Isa, one of the things that was very important in that as well, was the election outcome in Hungary this weekend. German Chancellor
Mertz praised the Hungarians for what he says is a move back towards European unity. Isa.
SOARES: And Mr. Zelenskyy has left Berlin, I think he's in Oslo, clearly going to European capitals to push for that support, Fred, at a critical
time when the eyes of the world have turned --
PLEITGEN: Yes --
SOARES: To Iran and the Middle East, right?
PLEITGEN: Well, an absolute critical time. And of course, one of the big question-marks here is whether or not the United States is going to
continue to --
SOARES: Yes --
PLEITGEN: Support the Ukrainians. And a lot of talk often happens about weapons, which of course, is very important for the Ukrainians and the
Europeans are buying. But of course, we also have to keep in mind that there's also a lot of intelligence-sharing going on, that essentially keeps
the Ukrainians in the game as far as intelligence is concerned when they're trying to counter what Russia is doing.
So, certainly that's still very important. And if we look at some of the rhetoric that we've been hearing from the Trump administration, especially
since the armed conflict with Iran had started, that President Trump had said he's very disappointed in the European NATO partners, that if they say
that Iran is not their war, then Ukraine is not America's war.
Of course, all of that very concerning. And I think it was very important for Volodymyr Zelenskyy to hear from his European partners, and especially
the Germans in this case, because right now, they are the ones who by far are providing the most military aid, the most financial aid to Ukraine to
hear that they are in it for the long run, and that they are going to continue to support Ukraine.
The Germans, of course, also saying, that is a very clear message to the Russians as well, that a negotiated settlement would also be in Russia's
interest. Isa.
SOARES: Fred Pleitgen for us there in Berlin, beautiful backdrop there behind you, good to see you, Fred, thank you. Well, as Moscow faces
mounting losses on the battlefield, Russian universities are funneling students into the military through a mix of financial incentives,
misleading promises, as well as coercion.
Our Clare Sebastian investigates how universities are applying the pressure, particularly to struggling students, as the Kremlin tries to
desperately sustain its war in Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is not a war-themed computer game. It's a recruitment video designed to convince students to
join Russia's drone forces.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
SEBASTIAN: You were told you were wasting time on video games, says this clip. There is a place where your experience is especially valuable. The
videos, which began appearing on university websites and social media pages around the start of the year, all advertised military contracts in Russia's
newly formed unmanned systems forces.
Here you see a gamer on the left, a drone operator on the right. One university captioned it, choose the right skin.
(On camera): But behind the flashy PR, there is a darker side to this. Few students will speak out publicly, but some of those we have reached have
told us anonymously that the pressure on them is rising.
(Voice-over): "Everything changed this year", wrote one student. All the top people in the university are now calling on students to go to war.
Students at risk of failure are a common target, hardly consistent with an effort to form an elite brigade.
In this video, sent to CNN by one student, a woman tells the group, "If I were you, I would consider an option to join the drone forces. It will be
as if your missing credits never existed." Another student told us on a single day in February, his university almost expelled a third of our group
and forced them to sign a contract on the spot to keep their place.
Through videos, posters and in-person meetings, sometimes with soldiers serving in Ukraine, students are being promised an easier war experience, a
one-year fixed term, an opportunity to serve far from the front line, huge payouts and high-tech skills. And yet -
[14:30:16]
ARTEM KLYGA, RUSSIAN HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER: Everything is a lie. It's a simple contact with the Russian army without a deadline, without a special
term.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): This is the small print. Russia's 2022 decree on mobilization, which was never cancelled, states every military contract
remains in force until that decree is revoked. No exceptions. And no guarantees, experts and anti-war activists say, that the drone unit is
where they'll end up.
GRIGORY SVERDLIN, FOUNDER, IDITE LESOM: As soon as the person signs a contract, he's literally a slave of Ministry of Defense and he can be sent
to whatever unit Ministry of Defense will need.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): It's not clear yet how many students have been recruited so far. The Russian Ministry of Defense has not responded to
CNN's request for comment, but none of the students we spoke to are buying it.
I don't find this nonsense convincing, wrote one. I'm deeply opposed to the military propaganda. Among my classmates, no one is considering signing a
contract, even those in a very difficult financial situation, wrote another.
Russian losses in Ukraine have been mounting in recent months. Its system of enticing soldiers with huge salaries and bonuses under increasing
strain.
KATERYNA STEPANENKO, RUSSIA TEAM LEAD, INSTITUTE FOR STUDY OF WAR: There's a lot of estimates in terms of the recruitment getting more expensive for
the Kremlin, which is why coercion is becoming more prominent.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): The main battle for peace is inside you, claims this recruitment video. Russia's internal battle for manpower is
escalating.
Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: And our thanks to Clare Sebastian and the team for that brilliant report. While the Russian Defense Ministry did
not respond to CNN's request for comment, following of course that report from our Clare Sebastian.
Well, a terrifying scene at a school in Turkey today, students were sent scrambling for safety after a former student opened fire with a shotgun. At
least 16 people were wounded, including numerous students as well as teachers. The 18-year-old gunman killed himself when police moved in to
apprehend him. School shootings like this are extremely rare in Turkey as well as across Europe.
And still to come tonight, the president and the Pope. The political price Donald Trump is paying for his attacks on the leader of the Catholic
Church. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:00]
SOARES: Welcome back. Donald Trump is not letting his feud with Pope Leo die down. The U.S. President had strong words for the Pope and for Italian
prime minister, it seems, Giorgia Meloni, in an interview with an Italian newspaper on Tuesday. He said Pope Leo shouldn't be talking about war
because he has no idea what's happening. Mr. Trump saved his harshest criticism for the Italian leader, who had been one of his strongest,
remember, European allies. He said he was shocked Ms. Meloni would defend the Pope, adding, I thought she had courage, but I was wrong.
And all of this comes as the Pope is in the spotlight on a 10-day trip to four African nations. So, how will all of this play with Christian
conservatives in the U.S., a key part, of course, of Donald Trump's coalition?
We are now joined by CNN contributor and New York Times journalist Lulu Garcia-Navarro. Lulu, great to have you back on the show. Really, let me
get your thoughts, first of all, on this dispute he seems to be having now, lashing out at Giorgia Meloni of Italy, you know, for calling his comments
-- I think she called his comments regarding the Pope unacceptable. Just your thoughts.
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR AND NEW YORK TIMES JOURNALIST: I mean, I think that is generally what Catholics have said. You cannot make
Catholics choose between their president and their Pope, because as we all know, the Pope will win. He is the head of the Catholic Church. He is
simply preaching, as he has said, what all popes have preached, which is that war, generally speaking, under only very few circumstances, is bad,
you know. And so, what he's done here is pick a fight among some of his loyalist -- his most loyal supporters.
If you think that almost one in four people who voted for President Trump in 2024 were Catholic, 22 percent were Catholic. He had good approval
ratings amongst Catholics, and now he is underwater with Catholics. Forty- eight percent think that he's doing a good job, and fully 60 percent disapprove of his war with Iran. And so, just as a political matter,
leaving aside whether or not you think this is a problem for his faith and the faith of Christians who follow him, politically, it's disastrous.
SOARES: Yes. And look, let's put some context on this that we've seen over the weekend from our viewers just joining us, Lulu, because he posted --
obviously, I think he deleted it -- since this A.I.-generated image of himself as a Jesus-like figure. He later said it was meant to be -- there
it is, supposed to be about the Red Cross. The week before, I remember clearly because I was covering this, he threatened to destroy an entire
civilization when he was talking about Iran.
And I was just seeing The New York Times has called his behavior erratic, even suggesting -- raises questions about his mental health. And the
polling seems to show some concerns, too, because I was looking at a Reuters Ipsos poll, and this is from late February, which found that 61
percent think he has become more erratic with age.
What are you hearing, what are you seeing from Americans as you put all these pieces together? I've seen a lot of criticism, of course, on X from a
lot of Democrats, but is this being matched by Republicans?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Not yet. And I think that's what's interesting. There is a schism within his coalition, and you've seen that most clearly from the
sort of online right, if you will, the podcasters Megyn Kelly, Tucker Carlson being amongst the most prominent, Candace Williams -- Candace
Owens. These are people who were extremely supportive of President Trump.
In fact, one could argue they helped get him elected. And now, they have come out vociferously against Donald Trump, even so far as calling these
recent things that he's done blasphemous, targeting Christians. I mean, really, really harsh words. In fact, some on the religious right have even
been suggesting he might be the antichrist because of some of his most recent actions.
So, you know, this, again, is a political problem for him. And he seems more and more disengaged, more and more. He has trouble connecting his own
actions to the response of his base. He has said repeatedly when pressed on this, I am MAGA. Whatever I say and whatever I do is right because MAGA is
me.
[14:40:00]
And so, the splintering that we are seeing, it really belies that, because I think they're sort of smelling blood in the water. Whichever way you look
at it, he is not going to be president again.
And so, there is, I think, a fight that is becoming ever more transparent about what the future of the party looks like. And Donald Trump risks being
left behind in that debate.
SOARES: Those who defend them, and that's mostly those in the White House, call this strategy. Lulu, what do you make of that?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, I don't think this is strategy. I think -- you know, I mean, starting with just think about what's happened in the last week,
starting with the message on Easter Sunday, calling for the annihilation of an entire civilization, then now putting himself as if he was Jesus Christ,
picking a fight with one of the holiest men on the planet, much beloved by his own voting bloc.
I mean, these are not the actions of a president who is in control of his faculties. And I think that is what The New York Times, my employer, was
pointing to.
SOARES: Right. I mean, the narcissistic traits, though, I mean, in social media outbursts are nothing new coming from this president. I mean, this is
what voters loved about him, right, when they voted for him.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, but I think that there is something quite different. I mean, I think what we've seen here in the United States at this point is
actually one thing is looking at the president saying, yes, he does these memes. Let's not forget the Obama memes with, you know, him and Michelle
Obama's monkeys, a lot of distasteful things that he has put on social media.
But this is a step further, because it's not only what is going on social media, but it's actions, right? He is in control of the nuclear button. He
is engaged in a war with Iran at the moment. I mean, these actually have real-world implications, which I think Americans are starting to realize,
that whatever the president does or doesn't say actually can have real-life implications that affect their pocketbook and the livelihoods of their
friends and neighbors, and not to mention the lives of Americans overseas.
And so, you know, there is an increasing amount of dissatisfaction with Donald Trump at this moment, and his actions on social media and beyond
aren't helping him.
SOARES: Lulu, always great to see you. Great analysis, Lulu Garcia-Navarro. Thank you, Lulu.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: You're welcome.
SOARES: And still to come tonight, Brazil's president is in a tough re- election battle, and now he's trying to prove he's literally fit for the job. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
SOARES: Well, candidate fitness, mental as well as physical, is a common issue during elections. In Brazil, a new poll shows President Luiz Inacio
Lula da Silva narrowly ahead of Senator Flavio Bolsonaro, a man essentially half his age. And now, Lula has taken to the internet to show people he's
fit and ready to fight, as our Julia Vargas Jones now reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, president of Brazil. Now, why is this 80-year-old politician
live streaming his workout routine? His latest video went viral, but he's been posting his workouts for years. In 2015, at the beginning of his
fitness journey, he posted this video from the treadmill. Two super cuts of strength training during his current administration. Recently, that's
ramped up even more, with the president doing squats, calf raises, and lunges on a live stream.
LUIZ INACIO LULA DA SILVA, BRAZILIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): If you want to live to 120, you have to do what I do.
JONES (voice-over): Brazil has a chronically online culture where memes spread like wildfire. So, content that drives engagement like that not only
makes sense, it's part of the government's strategy. Or maybe Lula is trying to appeal to the global manosphere. From Francis Emmanuel Macron to
Americans like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in Pete Hegseth, all in various degrees making physical prowess part of their political message.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Go, Lula. And our thanks to Julia Varga Jones for that report. Well, Pablo Escobar may be long gone, but his pet hippos' descendants are
very much alive, though perhaps not for much longer. Colombia has announced plans to cull up to 80 of them. Escobar, if you remember, smuggled four
hippos into his personal zoo in the 1980s. After decades of mating, their population has exploded. Nearly 200 of the mighty mammals now call its
central Colombia home. Despite opposition from wildlife groups, authorities say the invasive species threaten local wildlife and have outpaced
alternative measures.
And still to come tonight, meet the team on screen at CNN, but not as you've ever seen them before. After the break, we'll take you to Lagos as
part of CNN's My Freedom Day campaign. We'll explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, a nonprofit in Nigeria is giving children in one Lagos neighborhood a safe place to learn as well as express themselves.
[14:50:00]
These young people have channeled their gratitude into a massive artistic tribute to celebrate the 10th anniversary of CNN's "My Freedom Day"
campaign. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): In one of Nigeria's most impoverished neighborhoods, there's beauty hiding in plain sight. For nearly 10 years,
volunteers and students at the Slum Art Foundation in the Ijora-Badia neighborhood of Lagos have quietly been working on their craft.
It's not just about the artwork, per se. It's more about learning the art of work, says co-founder Adetunwasa Adenle.
ADETUNWASA ADENLE, CO-FOUNDER, SLUM ART FOUNDATION: Most children found in this community, from an early age, are meant to fend for themselves. And I
discovered that these young children have a lot of energy, but they lack direction. They lack mentorship and guidance.
ASHER (voice-over): The foundation provides that mentorship, as well as resources to those who might otherwise have to go without.
TITILAYO OLUOMO GAWAT, GRANDMOTHER (through translator): What Ade is doing here, we thank God. Since he's been teaching them, we see the impact.
ASHER (voice-over): Still, in places like Ijora-Badia, danger can lurk around any corner. Byoye (ph) was just three years old when she
disappeared. Her grandmother says she was kidnapped from her home and gone for a year.
GAWAT (through translator): When she came back, she had marks on her body. It looked like when they took her, she had been hit on her tailbone. When
she first came back, she used to walk like this. The way she used to talk had changed. The things she used to know, she didn't know anymore.
ASHER (voice-over): The Slum Art Foundation tries to provide a safe place for the children of Ijora-Badia to grow and learn. In addition to art, the
foundation places an emphasis on trade skills, like carpentry and hairdressing. There's also a social justice component that Adenle hopes
will stay with them long after they graduate the program.
ADENLE: When I started explaining what My Freedom Day means to these young people, they were like, oh, so they could relate it to their own immediate
environment. And the power of media in ending modern day slavery has been a journey for both we here as a school and as an impact agent and the
community itself.
ASHER (voice-over): To celebrate My Freedom Day, the students and staff set forth an audacious goal, to create a portrait of every on-air journalist at
CNN, and Adenle says it was for a simple reason.
ADENLE: It's just something that is a kind gesture from us to just say, thank you, CNN, for putting yourself out there to help stop modern day
slavery and give voice to those who are voiceless.
ASHER (voice-over): It's a project that took over two months, and they'd just finished their work.
ADENLE: Slum Art decided to say, oh, let's work with volunteer artists and children from our school to complete 222 artworks of reporters, anchors,
saying thank you to CNN reporters across the world.
ASHER (voice-over): It's proof kindness is contagious, greatness can come from anywhere, and talent can't be confined to within four walls.
Zain Asher, CNN, for My Freedom Day.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Absolutely brilliant.
MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: The work.
SOARES: So, talented. The amount of work that goes into this.
FOSTER: Everyone at CNN.
SOARES: And look, scale is important here, just so you see, we're not talking about a sheet of A4 paper. Just to give you a perspective, Max,
show us how --
FOSTER: Are you ready?
SOARES: Come on, we'll watch Max.
FOSTER: Are you ready?
SOARES: We weren't quite ready for when we got them.
FOSTER: My mother's watching, so I'm quite interested to see what she's going to think.
SOARES: Well, there you go. Let's see what your mother says. This was what they did, Slum Art, amazing work. This is Max Foster there. You can't see
the detail, but the number of newspaper articles and clippings they have here is absolutely brilliant.
FOSTER: The shading.
SOARES: This is when Max would wear a tie. It's too cool now for that.
FOSTER: Yes.
SOARES: But it's absolutely beautiful. It takes me back, you know, putting together paper maches for our children and how challenging it is.
FOSTER: Oh, my goodness.
SOARES: I mean, I don't think I could do anything like this.
FOSTER: It would take me a year.
SOARES: Yes, probably more.
FOSTER: It would look like Frankenstein.
SOARES: And glued my fingers in the process. But look, they're absolutely fantastic. I want to show you mine. It's just such a great job. They've
done a great job, Slum Art. Thank you. We should be saying thank you to you guys --
FOSTER: Yes, absolutely.
SOARES: -- for the amount of work that has gone into all these portraits. You know, the details. I mean, there's a lot of royal clippings --
FOSTER: Princess Ann.
SOARES: -- which is quite interesting, given that he's a royal correspondent. But it's just terrific. You can't see -- I mean, I've got --
they've given me longer lashes than I have in real life, which I'm very grateful for. But thank you so much. This is really fantastic to see.
[14:55:00]
Not just this work that we've seen here, but you saw all the correspondents, all the anchors and some of the staff, just that whole wall
of art and the amount of work that goes into this.
FOSTER: It's just so challenging.
SOARES: I mean, what I don't know is if they start first with the design, with a pencil drawing or -- and then they add it, or whether it's just you
look at it and you shape it. Do you know what I mean?
FOSTER: I do. I mean, I'm baffled by the -- just one of them, let along the whole collection.
SOARES: Let me see your, Max. Let's put both of them together, because clearly, there's not enough of our faces on TV because you need double of
that. Look, how great that looks. It's not scary at all. But look, it is fantastic. The coloring. There's some FT newspapers going on. Good way to
use all papers.
FOSTER: Absolutely.
SOARES: But thank you. That's what I wanted to say. A big thank you to everyone at Slum Art for their fantastic work for --
FOSTER: And what a compliment to choose CNN and talk about journalism in that way.
SOARES: It is really good. Be sure, of course, as we continue this conversation, to join CNN tomorrow, Wednesday, for "My Freedom Day" as a
student-driven worldwide event, as we continue to raise awareness of modern-day slavery. Follow the hashtag MyFreedomDay on social media and
check out cnn.com/myfreedom. We'll continue, of course, raising, raising alarms over what is happening around the world. That does it for us. He is
next. Oh, no. "What We Know."
FOSTER: It's going to be an improvement.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
