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Isa Soares Tonight
President Trump Travels To China; President Trump Cites President Xi Will Visit The U.S. Before The End Of The Year; Ministers Resign Amid Calls For U.K. Prime Minister Starmer To Step Down; U.K. PM Starmer Fights Calls For Him To Step Down; Report: "Systematic" Rape By Hamas In October 7 Attacks; Russian Ship Sinks In Mysterious Circumstances. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired May 12, 2026 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, he's a great doctor, and he was having some difficulty. But he's going to go on and he's
going to do well. We have -- everybody wants that job.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, the midterm election -- midterm election, would you send the National Guard or ICE to voting locations in November? Would
you do that?
TRUMP: Well, you know what? I'd do anything necessary to make sure we have honest elections. We have to have honest elections.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, you're not ruling that out?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Quick question, Mr. President. This man is considered to be the man for Africa. On the May 26th, we will be celebrating Africa
Day. Would you mind doing something special like 10 minutes -- introduce -- to speak about your real -- on the Africa continent --
TRUMP: We will do that --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ceasefire is on life-support. Is Xi the person to bring it back to life?
TRUMP: Well, we'll see what happens. We're going to have a great meeting in China. He's a wonderful guy. He's a friend of mine, and we're going to have
a great meeting. We do a lot of business with China.
We do very well with China, and they do well with us. And the relationship is very good. We're going to --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But do you think -- do you think --
TRUMP: We are going to have a great meeting --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But do you think he's got what it takes to convince the Iranians?
TRUMP: Whatever he can do to help, we'd like --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you be able to talk about the end of the war in Ukraine with the --
TRUMP: Yes --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President?
TRUMP: I think it's getting very close. The end of the war in Ukraine, I really think it's getting very close.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will China invest a trillion dollars in the U.S.? Will China --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will China invest a trillion dollars in the U.S.?
TRUMP: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you're negotiating with Iran, Mr. President, to what extent are Americans' financial situation motivating you to make a
deal?
TRUMP: Not even a little bit. The only thing that matters when I'm talking about Iran, they can't have a nuclear weapon. I don't think about Americans
financial situation. I don't think about anybody. I think about one thing. We cannot let Iran have a nuclear weapon. That's all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: That's the only thing that motivates --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On NATO --
TRUMP: You said?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is more broken, NATO or OPEC?
TRUMP: Well, OPEC is having some difficulty right now because one of those things -- but that has nothing to do with me. NATO was very disappointing
to me. NATO was not there when we wanted them, was not -- we don't need NATO, we don't need NATO. But if we did need them, they just weren't there.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think President Xi can help and contribute to a deal with Iran?
TRUMP: He could. I mean, it might be. Yes, I don't think we need any help with Iran, to be honest with you. They're defeated militarily, and they'll
either do the right thing or we'll finish the job.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: They're either going to do the right thing or we're just going to finish the job.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your message, sir, to the Chinese people as you embark on this summit.
TRUMP: That we're going to have a great relationship for many decades to come. My relationship with President Xi is a fantastic one. We've always
gotten along, and we're doing very well with China and working with China has been very good.
So, we look forward to it. As you know, President Xi will be coming here toward the end of the year. So, that will be exciting too. I only wish we
had the ballroom finished. The ballroom is right on budget and ahead of schedule, but I wish we had it finished now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here on the camp --
TRUMP: You also may want to do one other thing. You may want to go see the reflecting pool because that's under construction. And for the first time
since 1922, it's going to work properly.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark Stone(ph) from "Sky News", what's your advice to Keir Starmer, sir? He seems to be on the brink.
TRUMP: Well, my advice to him has always been, open up, open up your oil in the North Sea. You've got one of the great oil finds anywhere in the world,
and you're not using it. They're not allowed to use it, and it's one of the best in the world, among the best oils in the world.
Open up your oil in the North Sea and get tough on immigration.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should he stay or go?
TRUMP: Europe is being very hurt by immigration, all over Europe. Not only --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should he stay or go?
TRUMP: That's up to him. But I've told him from day one, you're getting killed on energy. You're windmilling your country to death. Open up the
North Sea. You have one of the greatest sources of energy in the world. Open up the North Sea --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, from Nigel Farage, sir --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drop taxes on oil. Did you ask them to do that?
TRUMP: I think it's a great idea --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May I ask you two questions --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has there been any understanding between you and Putin that Russia should get entire Donbas?
TRUMP: No --
[14:05:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, are you looking to facing to travel to Russia? Do you think it might happen this year?
TRUMP: It could. I mean, what -- I will do whatever is necessary. That war, I've settled eight wars, that war is getting closer, believe it or not,
it's getting closer, and we think we're going to end up getting a settlement between Russia and Ukraine.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the goal of your trip to China?
TRUMP: I think more than anything else, because we have massive relationship with China, we're the two superpowers, we're the strongest
nation on earth in terms of military. China is considered second, who knows? I mean, who knows?
But we are -- there's nobody even to come close. And you see that whether it's Venezuela or whether it's Iran, Iran's military is decimated. I have a
great relationship with President Xi, and I think it's going to remain that way.
We have a lot of things to discuss. I wouldn't say Iran is one of them, to be honest with you, because we have Iran very much under control. We're
either going to make a deal or they're going to be decimated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about --
TRUMP: But one way or the other, we win.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: We're going to be talking about -- we're going to be talking with President Xi about a lot of different things. I would say more than
anything else will be trade.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just to clarify, did you say -- did you say earlier that the only thing that matters to you when it comes to Iran is a nuclear
weapon? You're not considering the financial impact of this war on Americans.
TRUMP: The most important thing by far, including whether our stock market, which by the way, is at an all-time high. But including whether or not our
stock market goes up or down a little bit, the most important thing by far is Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about the pressure on Americans and prices right now?
TRUMP: Every American understands --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How concerned are you about Americans, how they're feeling about --
TRUMP: Every American --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What they're paying for food --
TRUMP: Are you listening to me? Every American understands and they -- we just had a poll, like 85 percent, which is surprising it's only that, they
understand that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. If Iran has a nuclear weapon, the whole world would be in trouble because they happen to be
crazy.
They're not going to have a nuclear weapon. Now, if the stock market goes up or down a little bit, the American people understand it. When it's over,
you're going to have a massive drop in the price of oil, which a lot of people thought would be higher. And I mean, it was $100, it was $99
yesterday, which is low, which is relatively low.
When this war is over, oil is going to drop, the stock market is going to go through the roof, and truly, I think we're in the golden age right now.
You're going to see a golden age like we've never seen before. The minute it's announced, I'll be the one to announce it because I'm the one that
makes that decision.
I could leave right now and it would take them 25 years to rebuild their country. But I don't want to do that. I want to have it complete and total.
Are you ready? As soon as this war is over, you're going to see numbers like you've never seen before --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know how much you value loyalty. I know how much you value loyalty. Are you comfortable with people serving in the military if
they personally opposed the Iran war or you?
TRUMP: It doesn't mean I'm happy about it. But --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I live with a lot of different --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me, excuse me, sir --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Question on redistricting.
TRUMP: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, voters who are confused about the changing maps, the changing dates, and the African-Americans concerned that this is going to
draw black members of Congress off the map. What do you say?
TRUMP: Well, I think it's been a wonderful process. They've been -- the Democrats, or as I call the Democrats, because they are dumb in so many
ways. They've redistricted for years. And now we took our shot, and it looks like we're going to pick up a lot of seats, and that's a good thing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: That's a good thing. We want voters to have their choice. We want fair voting. We want fair elections. The Democrats have been cheating on
elections for many years, and all we're doing is winning. Thank you --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me, excuse me, sir --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have anything on Mexico?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've been listening to --
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: Hello, and a very warm welcome, everyone, I'm Isa Soares coming to you from 10 Downing Street. You have
been listening there to President Trump before, of course, he departs for China, pivotal trip, of course, is the world's two biggest economies.
The first visit by U.S. President in more than a decade. You heard the President talking there about some of the key topics on vis-a-vis China, he
was talking about trade will be the number one. He also talked about the war with Iran, talked about oil, Venezuela, even giving advice to Prime
Minister Starmer here in the U.K.
[14:10:00]
We'll have much more, of course, on that visit, that critical visit to China in just a moment. But I want to start right here in London. I'm
outside 10 Downing Street because British Prime Minister Keir Starmer is in the fight of his political life under intense pressure and facing growing
calls from within his own government to resign.
But despite this rebellion that we have been seeing, the Prime Minister says he isn't going anywhere, and he's openly daring his critics to
formally challenge him if they have the support. Now, four ministers have already quit Starmer's government, and more than 100 Labor lawmakers say
it's time for the party to find a new leader.
But dozens of others are also expressing their confidence in Starmer. We've seen that growing in the last several hours. And this all comes in the
wake, if you remember, of last week's very dismal local elections that saw Labor lose more than a thousand council seats right across the U.K.
Still, some of the most powerful voices in the Labor Party say, the Prime Minister deserves more time. Have a listen to some of those voices.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LAMMY, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER, UNITED KINGDOM: The only person that benefits from the Labor Party, navel-gazing in this way is Nigel Farage and
the populist right. Keir Starmer was elected just under two years ago with a mandate from the British people for five years.
He has my full support, and what I say to colleagues is, look, let's just step back, take a breath, let's remember that we have the king's speech. We
are in government to do a job of work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: David Lammy speaking there. Joining me now, a well-known face here in Westminster circles, Quentin Peel; a former foreign editor of the
"Financial Times". Quentin, good to see you. How do you see this moment right now? Is it a question of if, rather than when?
QUENTIN PEEL, FORMER FINANCIAL TIMES FOREIGN EDITOR: Well, it does seem to be a bit of a stalemate now. I think if you'd asked me the question --
SOARES: Yes --
PEEL: Yesterday, I'd have told you he'd quit today. But he's hanging on in there, and the party seems split down the middle on the way forward. So, my
inclination is now, I think he will actually stagger on for a while longer, but I suspect that we'll have a leadership election by the Autumn at the
latest.
SOARES: Autumn, and who then will be the person you think to start this leadership contest? There's a lot of names being thrown around, Wes
Streeting, of course, is one of those. So far, we haven't heard anything from Wes Streeting, although some of those were calling for the Prime
Minister to step aside or put forward a timeline.
Seem to be allies of Wes Streeting. So, who do you think has the best chance? Because we also have, of course, Andy Burnham, but he's not a
member of parliament. So, how are you seeing the chips now as we look ahead for the next few days?
PEEL: Well, I think if it is in the Autumn and not sooner, then Andy Burnham does have a chance of getting a seat and running for it. And
according to the opinion polls, he probably would be the most popular candidate across the country.
Having said that, Wes Streeting is at the moment probably in the best position to go for an early challenge to the Prime Minister. But there's
also Angela Rayner, who has her supporters, and there is Ed Miliband; the former leader of the party, who is very well regarded as a very competent
minister.
So, I reckon there'd be at least four hats in the race if you like. And the only question is, will Keir Starmer decide that actually he's had enough,
or will he stick with it because he seems to be thoroughly stubborn about this and determined that actually, at this moment, the last thing the
British government needs is to lose another prime minister.
The Tories went through about five in their last few years, so, he wants to show that Labor actually is a steady hand on the wheel.
SOARES: And this is something, of course, that we had heard from Labor, that he wanted to be the antidote of the Conservative Party, and the chaos,
of course, that followed, that ensued with the Conservative Party, the Tory Party.
I suppose, on the question, though, of Wes Streeting, as you're saying, do you think at what point he will make an intervention? Because there's been
a lot of humming and -- right now, and we still haven't heard anything from him.
Of course, there was a meeting earlier today, cabinet meeting, the question of leadership wasn't even brought up. So, is this a question of loyalty, of
not wanting to be first? How do you read the mood music?
PEEL: I think I understand they're going to have a meeting tomorrow morning, Wes Streeting and the Prime Minister. So, we'll see what comes out
of that. I think he's being pretty cautious. He has to have at least, 81 members of parliament supporting him before he can really -- can he legally
mount a challenge according to the rules.
[14:15:00]
And I don't think that he --
SOARES: Yes --
PEEL: Wants to, if you like, come out of the -- come out of the starting gate too quickly, and find that he's actually rather isolated out there and
hasn't got the necessary support. So, I think he's just being rather careful. I'm not sure he's that loyal to Keir Starmer.
But there is a very substantial group in the parliament, more than 100 MPs have signed a letter today, saying we don't want an election. It's the last
thing when we've got severe downturn in the economy, almost certain to be triggered by the Iran war.
We've got an international situation which is really very dangerous because of Iran, because of Ukraine, but above all, because of the difficulty in
having an easy co-existence --
SOARES: Yes --
PEEL: With Donald Trump.
SOARES: Yes, it's -- we'll see, of course, what the next 24 hours brings. Quentin, always great to get your perspective and your insight. Thank you
very much indeed. Quentin Peel there. Let's stick with the story. Joining us now, Clive Betts.
He's a Labor member of parliament. Mr. Betts, welcome to the show. Where do you stand this on whether Prime Minister Starmer should hold on or should -
- or really should step down.
CLIVE BETTS, BRITISH LABOR MP: I said on Saturday after the worst local election results Labor has had since the war, that we ought to be looking,
and the cabinet should take responsibility for this, to find a way where the Prime Minister steps down at a place, probably in the next few months
next year, and we have a proper and orderly election to replace him.
What was said to me on the doorstep, and we do a lot of door-knocking in the U.K., asking people for their views in a local election was, we're not
talking about local issues, we're talking about the Prime Minister, and we won't vote for you while he's Prime Minister. That's what people said over
and over again.
SOARES: Let me pick up with what you just said there. How much of this -- and really for our audience right around the world, how much is this about
policy and how much is this about character here?
BETTS: I think it's a mixture. I think --
SOARES: Yes --
BETTS: When Keir Starmer became Prime Minister when he had a great general election result, people weren't quite sure about him as a person, but they
gave him the benefit of the doubt, they thought he would be competent in government and would get things done.
The feeling is he hasn't really got everything right, we made some significant mistakes which some of which he's accepted. And I think the
problem is, people feel he doesn't communicate with them on a one-to-one basis.
He doesn't give the impression that he's understanding people and relating to them. I'm sure he is. I think he's a very decent person with a lot of
compassion. The problem is, he isn't engaging with people in a way that wins their support.
SOARES: Right, so then in that case, who would you back? Because of course, we've had 80-plus MPs saying that he should either resign or put forward a
timeline, but none of them so far are saying who they would back.
And this is a point that David Lammy made when he walked out of 10 Downing Street and he spoke to reporters. So, who would you back if there was a
leadership contest?
BETTS: Well, I'm not going to -- sorry, I'm not going to get drawn into that situation at present. I would make my own mind up if we actually had
an election where candidates came forward and explained what they wanted to do with the job.
I've said all along, I simply think it's the fact that we have a number of ways forward, but one is that Keir carries on until a general election, and
I think we will get badly-beaten because the public are making their mind clear about the fact that they don't really want him as Prime Minister, or
we end up with a very messy contest to replace him. And this --
SOARES: Yes --
BETTS: Could go on now for weeks and months, as has just been explained very ably to you. And that's really no good --
SOARES: Yes --
BETTS: For the country, the party or the government. Or we could have an orderly way forward for a new election, for a new leader. It's the third
one I support. It doesn't look as though we'll be able to get that at this stage. And I think throwing hats in the ring isn't the best way to proceed
on this.
SOARES: So, an orderly, some sort of orderly transition, it doesn't seem the Prime Minister --
BETTS: Yes --
SOARES: Is preparing for that, he's ready to let go as he says he wants to continue on with the job. As we have seen today, another --
BETTS: Yes --
SOARES: Thought is that, you know, any sort of transition, any sort of leadership contest would just lead to more chaos. And this is something, of
course, is an antidote that we've heard time and time again from Labor to try and move away from what we've seen from the Tory Party. Do you -- do
you buy that?
[14:20:00]
BETTS: I think in principle, yes. And if we could have got into government --
SOARES: Yes --
BETTS: And could have been in a position now where people -- yes, all right, I always -- we have doubts, we have a government in mid-term, and
they're never as popular as when they get elected. But I think the unpopularity of the government, particularly the Prime Minister, has grown
so great that I think we're going to have chaos, confusion whatever happens.
And my worry is that we end up with an election coming up, yes in three years' time with Nigel Farage leading the way. And we'll have a greater
chaos and confusion then with someone like that in our country. So, let's wake up and let's recognize we have to act now for the sake of the long-
term future of the country.
SOARES: Yes, and David Lammy was saying, you know, this back-and-forth and this leadership, people stepping -- calling for him to step down is only
handing a win of sorts to Nigel Farage. And that's one of the concerns.
But the names that we've been hearing, and you have had to, according to some of the letters, Wes Streeting, of course, is the Health Secretary,
Andy Burnham, Angela Rayner, even Miliband here, any of those, I know you won't tell me. It's very personal, but any of those from that list think --
you think are capable to do the job --
BETTS: Right --
SOARES: Better than the current Prime Minister --
BETTS: You're having another go, aren't you? You're having another go. It's your job.
SOARES: I am indeed --
(LAUGHTER)
BETTS: No, I'm not going to get drawn into a decision there. I -- my worry is that we potentially have an election, maybe Wes Streeting goes for it,
maybe Starmer survives that, Keir Starmer survives it. Then we have another election in the Autumn. This could drag on in a very messy way.
My disappointment is that the cabinet who are in the end, have a collective responsibility, we're not in a presidential system of government here.
We're in a cabinet system of government, ought to recognize the discontent and the problems and taking the lead on this.
And it seems while here, that I'm not sure, of course, we only hear this second hand, is the cabinet really --
SOARES: Yes --
BETTS: Didn't have a proper discussion on the worst local election results the Labor Party has had since the war.
SOARES: Is there anything, finally, that the Prime Minister can say -- can do to convince you otherwise that he should stay here?
BETTS: Look, he's not to convince me. He's got to convince the voters. And I think the problem is, the discontent and the lack of support for the
Prime Minister, the fact people just do not like him is as fundamental as that. They're not listening to him anymore.
So, I've said before, amount of refreshes and resets and renewals, and new announcements, people have stopped listening. I'm sorry they have. I'm
disappointed they have. I wish it wasn't that, but I'm just trying to say what people said to me, knocking on doors in the last few weeks. If I'm
wrong, I'm wrong. But I'm simply saying what people are saying to me.
SOARES: And we appreciate, Mr. Betts, you telling us what you're hearing, of course, within -- what you hear from your constituents, so important.
Clive Betts, thank you very much indeed for taking the time to speak to us --
BETTS: Thank you very much --
SOARES: Here on the show. Well, in the next hour right here on CNN, of what we know, I'll be speaking to Perran Moon, he is one of the Labor MPs who is
supporting Keir Starmer and says he needs to be allowed to get on with the job.
So, we have a completely different perspective in that next hour. That interview coming up in the next hour right here on CNN. Still to come
tonight, U.S. President Donald Trump heads to China as we showed you earlier on for a much-anticipated summit. Does the U.S. stalemate with Iran
give China greater leverage? We'll examine that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:00]
SOARES: You are looking there at live pictures of U.S. President Donald Trump at Joint Base Andrews. Of course, the U.S. President -- will be
showing you at the top of the show, is now on his way, making his way to China in what will be, maybe I should say, the most critical trip since he
returned to office as he boards, of course, there, the plane, the backdrop, the deadlock, of course, with Iran.
That's hammering the global economy and sinking the President's poll numbers, even, by the way, among fellow Republicans. Those images coming to
you from Joint Base Andrews, as the President Trump makes his way to Beijing.
And those storm clouds hovering around the American President, although the sun -- the sun does seem to be shining right there, may give Chinese leader
Xi Jinping significant leverage during the summit. The Iranian ambassador to China says Beijing could potentially serve as a mediator and guarantor
between Washington and Tehran.
Here's what President Trump had to say before departing for Beijing just moments ago. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is your message to President Xi as it relates to the Iran war?
TRUMP: Well, I think, number one, we're going to have a long talk about it. I think he's been relatively good, to be honest with you. You look at the
blockade, no problem. They get a lot of their oil from that area; we've had no problem.
And he's been a friend of mine. He's been somebody that we get along with. And I think you're going to see that good things are going to happen. This
is going to be a very exciting trip. A lot of good things are going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, certain to be discussed is the $11 billion U.S. arms sales to Taiwan. China's claim of sovereignty over the island has been, as you know,
a longstanding source of tension between the two world powers.
Underscoring these high economic stakes of the trip, the heads of big tech, that includes Apple's Tim Cook and Elon Musk will be part of that U.S.
delegation. A.I., rare earths and trade will likely also be on the agenda.
And this is something we heard from President Trump, who said trade will -- want -- be the talking points. Can China, though, help broker peace talks
between the U.S. and Iran? That is one of the questions that many are asking him.
Joining us now is Emily Feng. She covers China and Taiwan as an international correspondent for "NPR". Great to have you on the show,
Emily. I mean, look, this is a hugely high stakes visit with so much right, to discuss between these two superpowers who haven't met face-to-face since
the U.S. started this war with Iran.
And then we'll talk about Iran in just a moment. But just walk us through what you think the key items of the agenda are for this summit. I'm not
sure if you heard President Trump, but before he left there, the White House saying trade clearly a huge focus.
EMILY FENG, INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, NPR: So, for the U.S., it's trade. It's the war with Iran and high energy prices. For China, it's Taiwan. That
is, number one, how the U.S. deals with this island that China wants to control one day, and what might happen with this multi-billion U.S. weapons
sale that's been delayed to Taiwan.
SOARES: On Iran, then, let's talk about Iran, because the President was hinting there, you know, he does -- they're good friends there, you know,
he doesn't need help on Iran. What role can China here in terms of influence, have on Iran, trying to leverage some sort of pressure.
FENG: China has huge economic pressure on Iran. It used to buy most --
SOARES: Yes --
FENG: Of Iran's oil exports, up to 90 percent of Iran's oil went to China before Iran and the U.S. blockaded the Strait of Hormuz. And so, well,
China has had pretty limited political pressure this time around in the war with Iran, it wants to have more influence.
And this could be an in, if the U.S. also accepts China as a potential mediator down the line in the war with Iran.
[14:30:11]
It could be a potential in for China to start expanding its influence in the Middle East but I think a caveat is that I think this whole war with
Iran has shown that while the U.S., while China has significant economic leverage in not only the Middle East but also the rest of the world and has
managed to buffer itself against many of the energy shocks, countries like the U.S. where I am now are suffering, it still has certain constraints and
limits to how much leverage exactly it can exact over Middle Eastern countries and it still doesn't reach the level of leverage, say, the U.S.
has.
SOARES: And so, on that point, what do you think, Emily, that China will be looking for in terms of some sort of concessions and sort of in tit for
tat? What do you think that we'll be looking for? Is Taiwan then what they may ask for? How do you see this position, this quid pro quo?
FENG: Absolutely. What their dream is, is for the U.S. to change its diplomatic language on Taiwanese independence. They would like a stronger
American opposition, outright opposition to the possibility of any Taiwanese independence language. That the U.S. has signaled ahead of the
trip is not likely to happen.
Beijing would also be very happy, though, with the U.S. saying we're not going to sell as many weapons to Taiwan. I've reported in the last two
months that there is a $14 billion U.S. arms package that has been delayed. It's gotten all the approvals, but it still hasn't gone through for
whatever reason to sell U.S. weapons to Taiwan.
If that's off the table after this trip, that is already a huge concession that China is able to exact. And China also would love more access to the
American market to be able to invest in America and also to buy American semiconductor chips.
SOARES: I mean, how realistic is it, though, from your vantage point, Emily, that we will hear the U.S. saying it opposes Taiwan independence?
You think that is even possible?
FENG: Listen, it's not incredibly likely, but this a golden opportunity for China to try its luck. This trip, when Trump is feeling maybe a little bit
off kilter because the war with Iran has not gone the way that he's expected. And with a president, frankly, that is usually setting his own
policy on China as he goes week by week without a lot of consistency, despite having good advisers around him, this might be China's chance to
make that ask and potentially get an outcome that is very, very favorable to them.
SOARES: Let's see what they walk away with. Emily Feng, really appreciate you taking the time to --
FENG: Thank you.
SOARES: -- walk us through this. Thank you very much indeed. Well, we continue, of course, to follow the latest developments right here from
Downing Street. It's just gone 7:30 in the evening. And still to come tonight, British Prime Minister Keir Starmer faces calls to resign while
receiving new messages of support. We'll discuss after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:00]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. We continue to follow the big story right here out of the U.K. As you can see, I'm at 10 -- just behind 10 Downing
Street, where a fourth junior minister has now resigned from Prime Minister Keir Starmer's government. And this, of course, all comes after last week's
pretty dismal, disastrous, whatever you want to call election results from Mr. Starmer's Labour Party. Critics saying Labour has failed to show its
vision for the future. And it is a sentiment being echoed by many voters. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIYADH REHMAN, STUDENT: He inherited quite a difficult, the government had quite a difficult time, I'd say. I think it's a lot of things. I'd probably
say from my demographic, younger people and also South Asian Muslim, a lot of it comes down to his geopolitical stances.
GEOFFREY WORSDELL, IMMIGRATION OFFICER: I think he's tried to steer like a middle of the road sort of passage to try and keep everyone happy. Even
though I'm not -- personally, I'm not a fan of his.
NICKY BUCKLEY, RETIREE: I think he's just being blamed for everything. Because easy, isn't it? He's an easy target. I don't think he has the
personality to carry off being a prime minister. And so, they're making him pay for it. But if he gets replaced, the next person is not going to find
it any easier.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: The view from London, some voters are in London, where the Prime Minister will meet with King Charles on Wednesday. The king will oversee
the state opening of Parliament and is expected to lay out the government's priorities.
Our Clare Sebastian joins me here at side 10 Downing Street. And this the irony in all of this, because walking around here on the way to 10 Downing
Street, you can't see it. But the roads are closed off. Everything's being prepared for tomorrow. And of course, tomorrow we're supposed to hear King
Charles read out policies from this Labour government. That is going to feel rather odd.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, I think this why today has been so critical and why there was so much focus this morning right here on
the Cabinet meeting in 10 Downing Street. Would there or would there not be a mutiny? And the prime minister, despite the growing revolt that we've
seen throughout the day, has made it through. And we now have this letter from 110 plus MPs saying now isn't the time for a leadership contest.
And had there been something today, the timing would have been horrific going into this huge set piece event for the British political calendar.
The king in all his ermine robes arriving in Parliament to deliver the government's speech on its legislative priorities. If he'd had to do that
for a government that was in even more turmoil, that would have looked super awkward, I think, for the palace. So, I think they've survived at a
very critical moment for the government.
SOARES: They have survived. Some say he's hanging still by a thread. It's very early days because besides the 100 MPs who have, you know, said they
support him, there are 80 plus who don't. You basically want him either to step down or to create some sort of timeline for his resignation.
SEBASTIAN: Yes.
SOARES: Give us a sense, Clare, of what those people are saying and who they're backing. Because to me, it's not clear if there is one person they
are backing here to launch a leadership contest.
SEBASTIAN: Yes, and I think that's the issue, right? And Starmer made that point himself. He said to the cabinet this morning, there isn't a
challenger. So, essentially, why should I go? I think what's clear now is that he is not going to go voluntarily at this stage. I think you can't
make any assumptions. We have to include that caveat at this point.
Who is going to be the challenger? Well, look, all eyes are on the health secretary, Wes Streeting, at this point. He came into the cabinet today. He
left without saying anything, whereas other members of the cabinet came forward and spoke to the cameras and expressed support for the prime
minister in what seemed to be a fairly choreographed fight back against that revolt. Streeting said nothing.
It is now reported by the British media that he may meet with Starmer tomorrow morning here before the king's speech, though, of course, we don't
really expect anything to happen before the king's speech for all the reasons that we just outlined. But all eyes are on him. There's also Andy
Burnham, who's the mayor of Manchester right now.
SOARES: Who's not an MP.
[14:40:00]
SEBASTIAN: He's not an MP.
SOARES: Yes.
SEBASTIAN: So, it's a pipe dream at this point. But there are various rumors about how he could get back into parliament and those who back him
potentially would back waiting.
But meanwhile, we have these junior ministers who've come out and I think offered some insight into their view of sort of the culture of this
government. Jess Phillips, who's the Minister for Safeguarding --
SOARES: Stinging, stinging.
SEBASTIAN: Yes. But the most interesting of all in terms of the sort of the view on why there's not enough momentum, certainly the view from within
government, she said the desire not to have an argument means we rarely make an argument, leaving opportunities for progress stalled and delayed.
Really interesting to hear that from the inside, because I think that's a lot of what voters are feeling from the outside.
And she talked about how, you know, it is rare for Labour to be in government. This a precious chance that he's only the seventh Labour prime
minister ever. But if they don't act boldly, and I'm paraphrasing here, then they will squander that chance, that precious chance.
So, I think that does reveal to an extent what the voters are feeling outwardly, that there's this culture from the inside, certainly in her
view, to not act boldly at risk of sort of upsetting the apple cart.
SOARES: And some voters may even say, you know, that we don't need any more chaos with wars, of course, in Ukraine, and so many unknowns with war in
Iran, and the concerns of Strait of Hormuz, and the price of oil, and the cost of living, we don't need another change in leadership, right? That
creates more chaos is something we saw with the Tories, with the Conservative Party.
SEBASTIAN: And that's what the bond market is saying today, with 30-year gilts hitting highest levels since 1998. They've never recovered, frankly,
from the meltdown in 2022 caused by Liz Truss' mini budget, but going even higher today. The concern in the market is that, you know, if Starmer is
replaced, it could be by someone from the left of the party that may borrow more money and lead to a further decline in the government's finances. So,
that is the concern from the market. And that's not to be trifled with.
And then obviously, you have those like the defense secretary came out today and said, we need stability. This a very unstable world, not just
with, you know, the situation in the Middle East, the Strait of Hormuz, but still Russia and Ukraine is a major issue for this government.
SOARES: Communications also seems to be a problem with the prime minister, it seems from hearing from voters. Clare, thank you very much, indeed.
Now, we're going to leave Downing Street for just a moment and focus on a landmark new report that is uncovering very disturbing details about the
October the 7th attacks by Hamas on Israel. An Israeli commission that spent years investigating and gathering evidence says Hamas militants and
their allies raped, assaulted and sexually tortured their victims during and after the 2023 attacks.
The report says sexual and gender-based violence was a calculated strategy meant to maximize pain as well as suffering. A human rights expert who
headed the report says its goal was to ensure victims will not be denied, erased or forgotten. Cochav Elkayam-Levy spoke earlier to CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COCHAV ELKAYAM-LEVY, LEAD AUTHOR, "SILENCED NO MORE": Some of the things that we weren't sure how to describe is the prolonged sexual violence, the
reality of hell of sexual violence a day after day. There is one testimony that one of the hostages says that after she was raped or after she was
sexually assaulted, she couldn't even go to shower and that's something that stays with her and the fact that she became captive in a way that she
could be sexually assaulted anytime at any point kind of left a deep impression on all of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And still to come tonight, the mysterious voyage of a Russian cargo ship and the secrets now at the bottom of the sea, a CNN exclusive
investigation, pardon me, when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
SOARES: Well, fascinating new report coming in to CNN. A Russian cargo ship that sank off the coast of Spain in 2024 was likely carrying nuclear
reactors for submarines. A CNN investigation finds the vessel may have been headed to North Korea. Here's our Nick Paton Walsh with this exclusive
report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): A mystery in the Mediterranean; the possible torpedoing of a Russian
ship to stop the Kremlin handing submarine nuclear reactors to North Korea begins in a quiet Spanish port.
WALSH: This really is the craziest of stories about a Russian shadow fleet ship that sank off the coast here in the strangest of circumstances, whose
Russian captain confessed to investigators here that it was carrying two nuclear reactors, possibly for a submarine.
WALSH (voice-over): The incident is shrouded in silence but concerns the most serious of issues: weapons proliferation between two nuclear powers
and force being used to stop it.
The Ursa Major ship loaded up near St. Petersburg in early December 2024; on paper, bound for Vladivostok with a cargo of two huge cranes and over
100 empty containers. It made another stop, loading two large manhole covers. It set sail.
A shadow fleet ship used by Russia in Syria, the Portuguese navy followed it from above. You can see the blue covers here until just before it ran
into trouble in Spanish waters.
WALSH: It was way further out to sea when the Ursa Major on the 22nd of December, 2024, suddenly slowed and Spanish rescuers noticed this and they
radioed to ask if anything was wrong. The ship insisted it was fine and could deal with the situation.
WALSH (voice-over): But about 24 hours later, it made a sharp deviation and issued an urgent call for help. The boat was listing, this video shows,
filmed from a nearby tanker but probably not going to sink too fast.
The captain of the ship would later tell investigators he'd seen a 20-by- 20-inch hole in the hull, the damaged metal facing inwards. He said it had been followed by three explosions on the starboard side of the boat,
killing two of his crew.
WALSH: So, the Russian military arrive in force and they tell everyone to stay two nautical miles away from their ship, the Ursa Major. But the
Spanish know they need to conduct rescue operations, so they send this ship to pick up 14 Russian survivors who were brought back here. And that
includes the Russian captain, who, it seems, starts to help investigators piece together some of what's happened.
But it's hours later that day that the mood changes over the Ursa Major ship. And the Russian military fire flares over it. And then a series of
explosions follow, which Spanish seismic sensors picked up. And they send the ship to the seabed floor.
WALSH (voice-over): Moscow demanded their crew back but the Russian captain told Spanish investigators something remarkable, that the ship was carrying
components for two nuclear reactors, likely for a submarine, he said, adding he could not be sure if the reactors had fuel in them. There's no
evidence of contamination. He also told investigators he thought he would be diverted not to Vladivostok but to North Korea's port of Rason.
Russia was in North Korea's debt at that time after they sent 10,000 troops to help fight Ukraine two months earlier. And in December 2025, North Korea
would claim to have built this, their first nuclear-powered submarine.
[14:50:00]
WALSH: Everything may have been on the bottom of the sea but the Russians weren't done yet. And according to a source familiar with the
investigation, about a week after the incident, a Russian research vessel called the Yantar, linked in the past to all sorts of allegations against
Moscow, sat over the wreckage for about five days. And four more explosions followed, possibly the Russians destroying what was left of the wreckage.
WALSH (voice-over): In the months after, the U.S. may have shown interest in the site, twice sending a rare WC-135R Constant Phoenix, usually
secretly sniffing out traces of nuclear activity in Russia's Arctic or over Iran over the path of the Ursa Major, weaving low at 5,000 feet. One had
flown a similar route 13 months earlier, perhaps suggesting it's routine. The aircraft's U.S. base declined to provide any details. Spanish lawmakers
have urgently sought answers but got few.
JUAN ANTONIO ROJAS MANRIQUE (through translator): When someone doesn't clearly and fully provide the information that you request, you at least
suspect that they are hiding something, of course.
WALSH (voice-over): So, why did the ship sink? The Spanish investigation said the first impact was likely from a projectile called a supercavitating
torpedo that fires air in front of itself to reach very high speed. Others suggested something simpler.
MIKE PLUNKETT, SENIOR NAVAL PLATFORMS ANALYST, JANES: Sounds like a limpet mine. It sounds like a shaped charge explosive that was placed against the
hull by somebody or something.
WALSH (voice-over): The Russian owners immediately called the sinking a targeted terrorist attack. They, the Russian, Spanish and British
militaries, did not reply to a request for comment and the Pentagon declined to. There are few Western militaries operating there, capable of
noticing, tracking and stopping a cargo like this. All sides, it seems, happy for this secret to stay on the sea floor.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Cartagena, Spain.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And still to come tonight, could the secret to living longer be hiding in plain sight? We'll tell you about the new research which could
have you breaking into song. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Pictures of color painting the sky are going viral on social media. They're not the northern lights, and they're not made with A.I. either.
Meteorologist Chris Warren explains what's behind a rare rainbow cloud phenomenon.
[14:55:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS WARREN, CNN METEOROLOGIST (voice-over): Video out of Indonesia shows a massive cloud with a rainbow-like halo glowing at the top, and it doesn't
even look real, but it is. The science behind it is the same thing you've seen in a soap bubble or an oil slick. It's called iridescence. Inside that
cloud are tiny water droplets or ice crystals. Sunlight hits them and splits into a spectrum of colors. Some colors turn vivid, others fade.
This rare because everything has to line up perfectly. A thin cloud, uniform cloud particles, and you in exactly the right place to catch it.
Miss any one of those, and this disappears. It's the same physics you're used to seeing scaled up to the sky.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: An iridescent rainbow, absolutely beautiful. And finally, tonight, at least for this hour, if you're hoping for the secret to a long and happy
life, well, look no further than your local art gallery. New research from University College London, UCL, found that engaging in the arts may
actually slow down the aging process, whether, of course, it's visiting the Louvre, reading, singing, or participating in crafts, photography, or even
painting at home. The benefits are comparable to exercise. Get that. The study found those who take time to gaze at a Monet or pick up a brush can
slow their biological age by a year or more. We're going to start taking up painting, aren't we?
That does it for us for this hour. Do stay right here. I'll be back with "What We Know" up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
