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Isa Soares Tonight
President Trump Says the United States will Likely Strike Iran Again and Could Target Critical Civilian Infrastructure; NATO Countries Show Support for Ukraine at NATO Summit; Egypt Calls for Officials to be Removed After Argentina's Nail-Biting Win Over Egypt in the Men's FIFA World Cup; Trump to Give Ukraine License to Make Patriot Missiles; NATO Summit Wraps Up in Turkey; Egypt Furious at Having Goal Disallowed Following VAR Review. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired July 08, 2026 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Christina Macfarlane in for Isa Soares. Tonight, a
ceasefire in jeopardy. President Trump says the United States will likely strike Iran again and could target critical civilian infrastructure.
We're live on the ground in Ankara with more. Then a show of support for Ukraine at the NATO Summit. I speak to the Dutch Prime Minister in his
first interview with CNN. Plus, controversy continues at the FIFA men's World Cup after Argentina's nail-biting win, with Egypt calling for
officials to be removed. That and much more just ahead.
We start with the breaking news. So, the next few days, even hours, could be critical to determining whether a ceasefire now on life support will
collapse altogether. According to U.S. President Donald Trump, an interim deal to end the war with Iran is over, and Iran could be attacked again
tonight.
A U.S. official says the Trump administration is still considering its next moves after a recent exchange of fire with Iran. Well, the U.S. struck
Iranian ports after Iran attacked commercial ships in the Strait of Hormuz. Iran then hit Bahrain and Kuwait, saying it targeted 85 U.S. military sites
there.
Well, speaking at the NATO Summit in Ankara, President Trump demeaned the Iranian people and again threatened to target critical civilian
infrastructure as well as a key hub for Iranian oil exports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't want to deal with them anymore. They're scum. You know what scum is? They're scum. They're
sick people. They're led by sick people. And they're vicious violent people.
And if they had a nuclear weapon, they'd use it. As far as I'm concerned, it's over.
No, we hit them very hard last night. Very hard. Probably hit them hard again tonight. I gave him a little warning; we're going to hit them hard
tonight. But we'll see how it all works out. We may take over Kharg Island. It's not a thing they can do about it.
But I said, don't hit the pipes. Just hit everything else. And they hit it. They may hit it again tonight. So, you know, as per your question, normally
I'm not that way, but they really deserve it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Well, Iran is pushing back on Mr. Trump's threat to attack Kharg Island. One lawmaker said, quote, "come, we are waiting for you, and
we promise that not a single American soldier will return alive."
Our senior White House reporter, Kevin Liptak, is at the summit in Ankara. And Kevin, just before we get to the myriad of comments that have been on
Iran today from the President, Donald Trump himself in the last few hours has concluded this summit to have been very successful, in his words,
hailing the love in the room he was receiving from NATO members.
Which is, of course, in stark contrast with his attacks on certain allies earlier in the day, most notably, Spain. So, as the President departs this
hour from Ankara on Air Force One, I just wanted to get your take aways, really, on what this summit has achieved and where it's failed.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: I think, you know, they could be considered a success if President Trump didn't withdraw from NATO
entirely. You know, that's not out of the realm of our imagination for a lot of European leaders.
And so, I think for a lot of them, the fact that the President didn't state any threats about removing U.S. troops from Europe, about somehow
downgrading the U.S'. commitment to Article 5, the mutual defense treaty of NATO, all of that, I think, will be counted as a very successful summit.
You know, the bar was pretty low. They didn't really announce any new commitments by the United States to NATO, that was all left to the European
countries who spent yesterday committing billions and billions of dollars to bolstering their own defenses.
But it did seem as if it was an exercise in flattery, led by Mark Rutte, who is known for that, but also orchestrated by these European leaders to
try and convey to President Trump how much he has done to transform the alliance, how much the pressure that he has applied on these European
countries to do more to bolster their own defenses, has been successful.
[14:05:00]
And it clearly worked. The President saying that there was tremendous love in the room, that he wished the press could have been there to see it all,
and that the Europeans had all told him that they loved him. Now, that might be an exaggeration, but I think it certainly is directionally where
this is all going.
You know, a lot of officials privately think that the Europeans' own dignity is kind of a casualty in this arrangement. But if it works, it
works, I guess. And the President leaving here in a fairly good mood when it comes to NATO, how long that lasts is an open question.
You know, these things for President Trump don't tend to linger. And so, I wouldn't be surprised if next week, we hear very similar criticisms of NATO
that we heard, you know, four hours before he was saying that everyone loved him.
And so, a fleeting moment, but certainly, one that I think a lot of leaders here will view fairly positively.
MACFARLANE: Yes, or even changes, you know, when he touches down in Washington, that's how quickly it can happen. And of course, a lot was said
at this --
LIPTAK: Yes --
MACFARLANE: NATO Summit, but ultimately, it became the staging ground for the MOU and the ceasefire to essentially fall apart. Donald Trump
threatening earlier in the day to strike again tonight and to reimpose the blockade on the Strait of Hormuz.
Ending the day, though, on a different tone, really, saying he doesn't think the war with Iran is going to start again. So, how do we read all of
that? And what are Iran -- how Iran reading this?
LIPTAK: Yes, I think the way to read it is the President again, caught in a conundrum. It's the same conundrum he was in before the MOU was signed
exactly three weeks ago at the Palace of Versailles.
He needs to decide whether he wants to start the war again in earnest, and risk all of the economic and political fallout that, that would entail.
Remember, he said the war needed to end because of economic catastrophe. If it did not, it doesn't seem clear that, that's now not a risk of all of
this.
And so, he has that contend then with, or the other option, which is to try and pursue diplomacy with a group of people he now says cannot be trusted
and are scum and are cuckoos. And so, none of those seem like particularly appetizing options for the President.
And that's -- I think that's part of the reason why you saw him sort of waver back-and-forth over the course of the day, saying at the outset that
he would launch these new strikes on Iran, potentially targeting civilian facilities like bridges and desalination facilities, and then ending the
day saying that he didn't think the war would restart again and that this all would be concluded rather quickly.
How this proceeds, we just don't know. Iran has taken umbrage at the President's comments. They have said that the U.S. is violating the MOU in
different ways, which I think just speaks to a general lack of common understanding of what exactly this MOU actually agreed to.
But clearly, a very tense moment. At a moment when I think when the President had hoped that this would all be behind him. It very clearly is
not. And I think it's going to shadow, you know, certainly the coming weeks in the way that it has shadowed the bulk of his presidency so far.
MACFARLANE: Yes, well, it's certainly been a busy day in Ankara. Kevin Liptak, we appreciate your reporting. Thank you. Well, the flare-up in
violence comes amid funeral events for Iran's late supreme leader Ali Khamenei. His six-day state funeral crossed into Iraq earlier today.
And our Fred Pleitgen is covering all of those developments from Tehran. And of course, we want to remind you, CNN operates in Iran only with the
permission of the government. But we maintain full editorial control of our reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The Iranians are lashing out at President Trump after the U.S. President said
he believes that the Memorandum of Understanding between Iran and the United States, that, of course, guarantees a ceasefire between the two
countries is, as he put it, over.
One Iranian official that I spoke to said that he believes that President Trump's words as he announced all this were, quote, "disgusting". Other
Iranian officials also ripping into the United States and into President Trump, especially after those overnight U.S. airstrikes, and of course, the
U.S. also revoking those sanctions waivers for the export of Iranian oil.
In fact, the chief negotiator for the Iranians with the United States said that the time, as he put it, of bullying and extortion by the United States
is over. As you can imagine, a lot of folks here on the streets in Tehran speaking about the events that have been unfolding over the past hours.
Here's what they told us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I'm criticizing the authorities of my own country when they were supposed to give the right response to
those people overseas. They didn't do so. Negotiations were against the will of the nation. They will have wasted all the efforts of our armed
forces.
[14:10:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): For the last 47 years, we have seen this type of threat so many times. And on the basis of these threats,
day-by-day, we are getting stronger and more experienced.
PLEITGEN: Was a very kinetic night in the Persian Gulf area, with the U.S. accusing Iran of targeting several ships looking to transit the Strait of
Hormuz. The U.S. then hitting several Iranian targets.
They say around 80 around the Strait of Hormuz area, for instance, in the port town of Bandar Abbas, the Iranians themselves then saying that they
hit back at U.S. military assets in this region themselves, striking 85 targets, that according to Iranian officials.
But one of the other things that makes all of this even more difficult is that right now, Iran is still very much in a period of mourning as the
funeral commemorations for the late supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei are still going on.
In fact, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's body is set to be laid to rest in one of the holiest cities of Shia Islam in Mashhad, in eastern Iran on Thursday.
And so, therefore, the Iranians are saying this standoff at this point in time for them makes everything even more egregious. Fred Pleitgen, CNN,
Tehran.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: Well, the Netherlands was one of many European countries at the NATO Summit, pushing for a diplomatic solution to the war despite the
breaches to the ceasefire. Earlier, I asked Dutch Prime Minister Rob Jetten, whether negotiations are ongoing and where this leaves the
Memorandum of Understanding with Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROB JETTEN, PRIME MINISTER, NETHERLANDS: At the moment, there's not a lot of direct negotiations ongoing that is crystal clear to everyone, and it
has been complicated ever since the signing of the MOU. It's clear that it is a difficult negotiation, and there's still a lot of work to be done.
We've seen steps back-and-forth from both sides, but it is not only important for the Iranian people and the security in the Middle East, but
also in the interest of billions of people all around the world, that we find a solution for this conflict. And I'm sure that also the Americans
understand that pretty well.
MACFARLANE: I mean, at the heart of this dispute are two competing interpretations of the Memorandum of Understanding, and what an open Strait
actually means. Therefore, how surprised are you that this ceasefire has fallen apart, given the vagueness of the memorandum?
JETTEN: I think it was crystal clear to at least, us, but I think many others, when the Memorandum of Understanding was published, that this was
an understanding with a lot of interpretation on both sides. And again, a lot of work to be done, in our opinion, freedom of navigation is crystal
clear.
It means an open Strait where ships can pass without paying anything or having any security issues. So, that's also why the Netherlands is together
with France, U.K. and others, ready to open up the Strait and to clear the Strait from mines whatsoever.
But in the end, it is also crucial that the Iranian regime accept this fundamental of freedom of navigation. So, that means also a lot of
diplomatic pressure on Tehran to follow up on this part of the understanding.
MACFARLANE: Yes, and on that point, you have said actually in the past that it's important to show Iran that breaches of the truce in the Middle
East will not be tolerated. Will you therefore be pushing for the EU to have more severe consequences if Iran continue to violate the terms of the
MOU and what would that mean?
JETTEN: Yes, I've been advocating for quite some time also in the European Council that the EU has to prepare itself for the next years and our
relationship with the Iranian regime, because obviously, we won't see any regime change in the nearby future.
But that means that millions of Iranian people are living under a dictatorship, and the EU could put more pressure on Iran with additional
sanctions, for example. So, next to everything that the Americans are doing with the Iranians, Europe should prepare itself for a basket of measures
that we're willing to use if needed.
MACFARLANE: A sanctions enough, though, Prime Minister, that doesn't seem to move the needle with Iran when it comes to the Strait of Hormuz.
JETTEN: I agree with you on that, but it is the best instrument that the EU has at the moment. So, therefore, we have to prepare ourselves for it.
MACFARLANE: OK, look, I want to talk to you about Donald Trump's bilat with President Zelenskyy today. President Donald Trump said he would
discuss plans with the Ukrainian President to give the country the capability to make their own Patriot Missile Defense Systems, which is, you
know, a notable progression for Donald Trump. How important is it for the U.S. President to allow that to happen? What would that signify?
[14:15:00]
JETTEN: This is very important news because the Ukrainians have now taken a new momentum on the battlefield, putting a lot of pressure on the Russian
economy and the Russian President. But obviously, the impact of Russian airstrikes on Ukraine is intense, with not enough air defense at the
moment.
So, we need in a very short term, more delivery from EU countries to Ukraine. But for the Midterms, we need Ukraine to have more capabilities to
produce it on their own. And they can do it in Ukraine, but they can also do it in European countries under a license.
The Netherlands is working closely with Ukraine on drone production, for example, and we stand ready to do that also with other capabilities. So,
this move from the President of the United States can be a game-changer for the Ukrainians.
MACFARLANE: But Donald Trump has been criticizing Europeans throughout this summit for not helping the U.S. in its war with Iran. And this
morning, you'll have seen, of course, that he targeted Spain quite directly for not reaching out and helping with the war or agreeing to meet that
defense-spending target of 5 percent, saying he will cut off all trade, calling them a waste of space. What is your response to this attack on a
NATO member?
JETTEN: Spain is like any other NATO member, very important to our alliance. And as we've told the American President also today, for example,
Spain is one of the countries that is deploying the biggest number of soldiers in several NATO missions and other missions to keep Europe safe.
Obviously, the NATO, European countries have been lazy and naive for a very long time, but we're now really boosting our defense-spending, improving
our defense cooperation. And that is, in the end, not only good for Europe, but also very good for the U.S.
So, the summit itself was very constructive and very positive. And also, the American President at the end stated that this was a very good meeting
amongst friends, including the Prime Minister of Spain.
MACFARLANE: I mean, you say, constructive, others would call it quite divisive. I mean, on the issue of spending on defense alone, Donald Trump
has let his grievances be known. And, you know, Spain, as you point out, is one of, I think, 32 allies that have exceeded that 2 percent spending in
GDP.
So, is it fair that Donald Trump continues to criticize NATO allies on their lack of spending and their lack of seriousness in this issue?
JETTEN: Well, we're not going to be distracted with everything that we see on the news or on social media. I think it's very important to listen
carefully during the meetings as we've had today during the Ankara Summit, and that was constructive indeed.
But I'm personally always engaging with European allies that are lagging behind in the defense-spending or the defense cooperation, and also the
American President is allowed and, in a position, to make these kinds of statements and to call upon European countries to do what we have promised
during The Hague Summit.
But I truly believe that over the past 12 months, we've seen a huge momentum for NATO building three point -- NATO 3.0 with Canada and the
European countries doing much more than we've done in the past. So, I think the Americans can also be satisfied with the big progress in less than a
year.
MACFARLANE: Certainly, sounds like this NATO Summit has been a success in your view. Others may beg to differ, but Prime Minister, we really
appreciate your thoughts, thank you for joining us.
JETTEN: Thank you very much, and there are still a lot of work to be done. So, we will continue to do so. Thank you for having me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Our thanks to Prime Minister Jetten. All right, still to come tonight, Democrats are in panic mode. The candidate they expected to easily
unseat Republican senator has seen his campaign fall apart in recent days. The details are coming up.
And amid the rubble in Gaza, fans gathered to cheer on Egypt's World Cup team in its match against defending champion Argentina. Ahead, the
emotional plea from the Egyptian manager in support of Palestinians there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
MACFARLANE: Control of the U.S. Senate could rest on a decision that needs to be made in the next few days. Pressure is mounting on Democrat Graham
Platner to drop out of the U.S. Senate race for Maine. The progressive Platner has seen his support crumble since some of his former girlfriends
have come forward with allegations of rape and abuse.
The political newcomer won the Democratic primary, but must drop out by Monday or Democrats will be unable to replace him on the ballot. The Maine
race is considered one of the best chances for Democrats to pick up a seat and perhaps regain control of the Senate.
Well, CNN congressional correspondent Lauren Fox has been tracking this story and joins us now. So, I mean, these allegations, Lauren, are just
deepening the concern around Platner staying on in this race. When can we expect an update from him or his team, do we know?
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, that is what everyone in the state of Maine and in the Democratic Party is waiting for
at this moment, in part because, as you noted, this is a key Senate target for Democrats.
They have been trying to get Senator Susan Collins; a Republican, out of that seat, not just in this cycle, but in past cycles. And she's been a
very difficult candidate to beat. She's a very formidable candidate. She's very prepared.
Obviously, Graham Platner had really mobilized Democrats in a way that had rallied support around him, even from initially skeptical Democratic
leaders like Chuck Schumer, who is the minority leader in the U.S. Senate. Obviously, Schumer, as well as the DSCC Chairwoman, Kirsten Gillibrand,
have made clear that they want Platner to get out of this race.
But I should just note that these allegations surfaced on Monday late afternoon. He's obviously still in this race at this current moment, and
there's really a question right now of what he wants to see in order to exit.
Is there a way, perhaps, to make sure that whoever takes the helm of this race on the Democratic side is going to sort of make clear that they
support many of the same issues that Graham Platner did? That is one of the questions that exists right now.
The other huge question is, he needs to get out by next Monday at 5:00 p.m. in order to give the state Democratic Party room and time to find a
replacement. But even then, they only have this very tight two-week deadline.
That means that there's a huge question mark around who would take his place, how that would be decided. And right now, that also is just not
clear. So, while there are a couple of Maine Democrats who made clear that they may be interested in getting into this race, right now, everyone is
waiting to see what Platner does next.
MACFARLANE: Yes, so the Democrats have a very short window to find an alternative candidate, and I think it's worth pointing out again that this
sudden implosion could not have come at a worse -- in a worse race for the Democrats nationally.
FOX: Well, exactly. I mean, Senator Susan Collins, like I said, is someone who has been able to win re-election even when the top of the ticket has
not gone for Republicans. I mean, she is someone who has made clear that she can be independent from the President at times.
She is often willing to speak out when she doesn't agree with the President. And she is someone who just overall is very careful in her
messaging. She's very disciplined on Capitol Hill.
[14:25:00]
Is someone who is often outside of committee hearings, asking her questions about news of the day. She is not someone who is going to just fly off the
handle or be really responsive in a way that could jeopardize her politically.
She's very careful. She's very methodical, and certainly, I think it would have been a very interesting race to watch her versus Graham Platner,
someone who obviously had injected some uncertainty into this race for Democrats, but also excitement, right, for Democrats.
Obviously, given the allegations that surfaced on Monday here at CNN, it was very clear that this was just not a candidate who Democrats could any
longer support.
MACFARLANE: All right, Lauren, we'll continue to watch this space. Thank you. And this just in to CNN, a U.S. federal judge is ordering President
Donald Trump to make a $5 million payment to former magazine columnist E. Jean Carroll.
That's after the President's legal team asked for a delay in paying those damages. It had called on the Supreme Court to consider a challenge to the
jury's 2023 verdict, that found that Mr. Trump sexually abused and defamed Carroll.
Is not clear whether attorneys for the President will seek a stay of the order. Now, the NATO Summit has wrapped up in Turkey, and still to come
tonight, we'll explain the renewed commitment to help Ukraine in its war with Russia.
And 24 hours after its devastating World Cup loss to Argentina, Egypt's coach is still fuming. What he's accused FIFA of, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACFARLANE: After spending the first day insulting western allies and once again threatening to seize Greenland, U.S. President Donald Trump ended the
NATO Summit on a positive note, praising leaders for their tremendous unity.
He also offered new support for Ukraine in its war with Russia in a major policy shift. The President said the U.S. will give Kyiv a license to
manufacture Patriot Air Defense Systems.
[14:30:00]
Well, NATO secretary general, meanwhile, also put an optimistic spin on the meetings by touting the increase in defense spending by European and
Canadian members.
CNN's Nic Robertson is at the summit in Ankara and has been throughout. So, Nic, I just want to take a moment to reflect on that bilateral between
President Zelenskyy and Donald Trump, which was considerably friendly in tone, which, of course, cuts a contrast from previous meetings. And there
was that apparent permission to Ukraine to manufacture Patriot missiles. How much of a surprise, really, was that in the moment?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: You know, I think for all of those of us listening, it was a real surprise. We were briefed by
the U.S. ambassador to NATO just a week or so ago. And this issue came up.
You know, President Zelenskyy has wanted permission to have this license to produce Patriots inside Ukraine, the defensive missile systems. Why? Quite
simply, they're running out. They don't have enough. President Zelenskyy has said the way to win the war in Ukraine, it's a battle in the skies now
with Russia. Russia's got more and better ballistic missiles. Ukraine's defenses are weakened because they don't have enough of the defensive
missile systems, although Ukraine is very good at the offensive stuff because it's got some long-range drones. So, the whole war, he's framed it
as a war in the skies.
And so, just last week, you have the U.S. ambassador to NATO, who you would think understands where the sort of central gravity on U.S. opinion is,
that there wasn't going to be a granting of these licenses. And you had President Zelenskyy just yesterday saying, so important for the European
countries in NATO to be able to produce these interceptor missiles themselves inside of Europe, you know, putting the burden on them rather
than putting it on the U.S.
And then President Trump's sitting there and saying, well, I think a little birdie tells me. And Zelenskyy, I think because of his encounters with
President Trump and knows the way that they can go backwards and forwards, I think perhaps -- well, I mean, he was quite quiet. That was, you know, a
notable thing. One would understand that perhaps he wanted to go away and see what the details behind the scenes were on this.
In fact, we'd expected President Zelenskyy to hold a press conference before he left, maybe that 40-minute exposure sitting in an armchair with
President Trump, which was pretty much the totality of their bilateral meeting, by the way. He decided that was enough exposure and he left
without giving his press conference. So, I think reasonable to say that it was a surprise all round.
MACFARLANE: Yes. I mean, very Donald Trump to announce the news and then figure out the details of which later. But, Nic, look, European leaders are
hailing unity in this summit. Donald Trump is saying that it's been very successful. But given the very public lashing he had for certain NATO
members, most notably Spain, that doesn't feel accurate.
What have NATO members been saying behind the scenes, if you know, and how beneficial is it for them to continue to stage these summits if they get
attacked publicly by Donald Trump?
ROBERTSON: Look, it's difficult. I mean, one diplomat here said to us, you know, if you want to be a friend of the United States, you have to love
them a lot. And we love the United States a lot.
I've spoken to a couple of foreign ministers here, one from Finland and one from Poland. And these are both countries that are really up there with
their sort of defense spending commitment. This is what President Trump wants. It's supposed to be 5 percent of GDP on defense and security by
2035. And Poland in particular is very, very well on track, if not ahead of that already. And they both said, look, it is President Trump that has
really pushed the European countries to do this.
Now, both of those countries, Finland with its massive border with Russia, Poland, that that is getting intelligence shared with it, that is saying
that Russia wants some kind of perhaps false flag attack in Poland, some kind of a sort of asymmetric hybrid warfare, you know, potentially killing
people inside of Poland. So, these are both countries that really are concerned about Russia. And so, lean into, you know, President Trump's
desire to get the spend up. Obviously, they have their concerns when President Trump isn't giving his sort of full commitment there.
But there are others like Spain, as you say, that that came in for a real beating verbally from President Trump. Although when President Trump was
asked, well, how do you how do you therefore because this is what he said, how do you stop your trading with Spain, because it's part of the European
trades as part of the European Union, he didn't really have an answer for that. And perhaps that's why his language was weaker in the afternoon. We
don't know.
[14:30:50]
But again, the president raised the issue of Greenland saying, you know -- and I think a lot of countries thought this had been laid to rest earlier
in the year, President Trump saying, again, that it's more important to the United States and Denmark to have Greenland laying out all his old
arguments for that. So, that tension exists in the room. But this is perhaps the way that President Trump does business comes in bombastic and
hard.
And that does stuff no one's expecting, whether it's the F-35s for Turkey, whether it's lifting the terror designation on Syria, been there since
1979, or the Patriot missile systems for Ukraine. You know, he has a style, and he uses it to effect. And I think everyone's -- you know, everyone is
left wondering, OK, what would the next encounter be like? And that's his style.
MACFARLANE: Yes. And really, we should be used to that style by now, shouldn't we? Nic Robertson there live for us still in Ankara. Thanks very
much, Nic.
Well, it was the thrill of the victory for Argentina and agony of defeat for Egypt. In one of the greatest World Cup games ever, Lionel Messi and
his mates completed a remarkable comeback to advance. Egypt supporters, including those amid the rubble in Gaza, were absolutely euphoric after
their team took an improbable 2-nil lead over the defending champions on Tuesday. Just look at these images here from Gaza, incredible scenes.
But the match ended in heartbreak for them. And throughout the tournament, the Egyptian coach has been a strong supporter of Palestinian rights,
something that was not lost in the buildup to that very painful defeat on the pitch. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOSSAM HASSAN, EGYPT COACH (through translator): I ask all athletes and all media professionals of their different religions, from their different
countries, maybe during the World Cup, we can send a message. Please, let the Palestinian people live, live. They do not want anything, just to live.
So, please, through the respected sports media professionals, it is normal. Just as we make the FIFA slogan say respect and fair play, so we want
fairness in life. And we want respect for the human being.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: A great message that takes courage to make. Well, as for the game itself, Hassan believes his squad was a victim of injustice, even
going as far to suggest that FIFA wanted Messi to stay in the running at the tournament.
World Sport's Don Riddell is joining us now live from Atlanta. And Don, I guess it's fair to say the Egyptian FA and the Egyptian boss, Hassan, are
incensed by the decision by FIFA to deploy VAR when they did in this match. They're calling on an investigation. What more do we know?
DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Yes. I mean, they're absolutely furious, as are their fans, Christina. Essentially, they feel as though VAR was used
against them. And when VAR might have been used to benefit them, it was not deployed. So, I mean, their main beef is with the VAR decision to rule out
what would have been their second goal. They did subsequently score a second goal to take a 2-nil lead.
But the referee in the moment seemed to be OK with the foul that was all the way back at the other end of the field. But once the Egyptians had put
the ball into the back of the net, VAR wanted it looked at. And they correctly ruled that it was a foul. So, the goal was scratched off.
But then later in the game, when it was absolutely frantic, the scores were tied at 2-all, Egypt felt as though they had not one but two calls for a
possible penalty, both of which were waived away and neither of which was referred to the video referee. So, I mean, we've heard about the coach,
Hassan, talking about how unfair it was, an injustice. It was rigged. One of the players, Mustafa Ziko, talked about strange things happening on the
field. And they really were absolutely furious. Here's more from the coach.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASSAN (through translator): I am saying that we deserve to win. I do not want to say hard luck to us, no. We went out with honor on our part. But
the result was far from the fair play that FIFA talks about. There was no respect and no fair play today.
Today, we had a penalty not given. The referee, not even the VAR, even tried to look at it. We had a goal, the second goal, and it was disallowed
in a strange way. Life is still, and the world is still, not fair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIDDELL: And if they were upset with that, they won't want to see the brief interview with Gianni Infantino, the FIFA president, afterwards,
where he said, tonight, I suffered with Argentina. And then he quickly qualified it by saying, but I'm neutral. Anyway, this is a day off from the
World Cup. We're all catching a breather, but the quarterfinals resume tomorrow.
[14:40:00]
France v Morocco being played tomorrow. That is a rematch of the semifinal in Qatar in 2022, which, of course, France won, advancing to the final,
where they lost to Argentina. Looking forward to that. Back to you.
MACFARLANE: Yes, definitely some intriguing quarterfinals ahead, Don. Thank you. Do stay with us. We're going to be back after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACFARLANE: Turning now on to CNN's "Seasons," our series that explores the trends shaping global culture. "Seasons" host, Laura Jackson, sits down
with the luxury designer behind Uruguay's World Cup team uniforms. Gabriela Hearst tells Laura that her upbringing in Uruguay inspired her to create
eco-friendly clothing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAURA JACKSON, HOST, CNN "SEASONS" (voice-over): Luxury fashion is often associated with excess, but designer Gabriela Hearst has built her label
with craftsmanship, sustainability and longevity in mind.
GABRIELA HEARST, FASHION DESIGNER: Anything that is hanging in this showroom should be worn 10 years from now, 20 years from now, should never
feel that it's out of place.
JACKSON: Tailoring is just --
HEARST: Yes.
JACKSON: -- impeccable. Yes. You only can have impeccable tailoring.
JACKSON (voice-over): Long before sustainability became a buzzword in fashion, it was a way of life for Gabriela. The designer grew up on a
remote ranch in Uruguay, where resourcefulness and quality weren't ideals, they were necessities.
HEARST: I learned you need to be surrounded by things of quality because they need to last, because nothing more circular than a farm or a ranch,
you can't literally throw anything away.
JACKSON (voice-over): Those early lessons don't just inform Gabriela's worldview, they are woven into the clothes she creates. Her latest
collection features textiles made out of 97 percent deadstock materials from previous seasons.
HEARST: And this is merino wool, like we were talking about superfine merino.
JACKSON: Wow.
HEARST: I told my team, we're not going to buy any new fabrics this season, we're going to use what we have and our fabrics are some of the
best in the world. So, if we are creative, we should be able to cook with the leftovers.
JACKSON: How do you see luxury evolving? Because I think so much is changing in the world. So, where do you think it's going to go?
HEARST: I think authenticity is more relevant now than ever. Craftsmanship is more relevant. And it's time, design, care.
JACKSON (voice-over): And that commitment to craft now extends beyond the runway and onto the pitch. Hers was chosen to design Uruguay's official
World Cup tailoring.
[14:45:00]
JACKSON: What an honor.
HEARST: Thank you.
JACKSON: Are you nervous?
HEARST: I know I am nervous because it's like doing something big for your country. And it's nice because usually it's the bigger countries that
they'll have a big brand that's designing for them.
JACKSON: It's pretty cool. What do you think gives an item emotional longevity? Like why do people keep things?
HEARST: It's the journey of that piece, how it was made, who gave it to you. At the end of the day, I want clothes to feel like they're hugging you
and like they're caring for you. That you're not alone. Like there's something there.
JACKSON: It's like a really -- it's like a hug. Expensive hug.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: A very expensive hug. Our thanks to Laura for that. And we're going to take a short break. Stay with CNN. More news after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Joining our Book Club today is Colm Toibin with this fantastic book, "The News from Dublin." Welcome to the
show.
COLM TOIBIN, AUTHOR, "THE NEWS FROM DUBLIN": Thank you very much.
SOARES: This is a really beautiful collection of short stories, lots of themes, exile, loneliness, family, love, loss, grief. And throughout, there
is, I don't know if you agree with this, but there is a loose theme between all of us, and this is distance. Be it physical distance, the distance
between each other, the distance we have with ourselves, our old past and new past. I wonder, Colm, whether you -- what you thought brought all these
short stories together.
TOIBIN: I suppose during the time I was writing them, which is the last 15 years, I've been wandering back and forth from Ireland into the United
States, into Spain. And that whole, I think the going is never really a story, just someone leaves home. That's not a story. But the coming back
part, especially if you've come back from the United States after a number of years into Ireland, the whole idea of where do you belong? Who are you?
Are you really home? Do you want to go back to America? You think you're home, you're excited. And you think, I wouldn't mind being back in San
Francisco just now.
And so, that's a story. And I've been working with those ideas, simply because that's been my emotional life.
SOARES: Yes, that's the themes that are very central to your work, as we all know. The first story, and right off the bat, was just incredibly
moving. I think it's "The Journey to Galway." And it's about the depths, I won't reveal too much, but it is about the depths and the mother's grief,
and the burden, of course, that she carries along that journey.
[14:50:00]
Why did you decide to start the book with that particular story? Because that's incredibly powerful.
TOIBIN: Yes, a lot of that has been taken from Lady Gregory's autobiography and Lady Gregory's diaries. And her son was an airman, and he
was a pilot, and he was a pilot, and he was a pilot, and he was her only child. And in her diaries, you can see every day she goes to bed thinking
it's been a successful day, no telegram came today. He's safe today. My darling, she calls him, is safe still.
And then 1918, the very end of the war, she's there one day, and she's been imagining this for the four years of the war, that where will she be if the
telegram comes? What chair will she be sitting in? And it's a quiet day. She remembers how quiet it was. It seemed more still than usual, although
she wonders if that could be true.
And her maid for all the years, Marian, comes in with a piece of paper. And she has to go and tell her daughter-in-law. And she thinks she's carrying
death, this bit of paper that he's not dead yet in Galway because her daughter-in-law doesn't know yet. She should get two trains.
And what I'm trying to do is go very slowly through her mind. It's sort of before grief. It's like shock. But she's not screaming. She's not crying.
She's very controlled. She must look like a normal woman on a train.
SOARES: Yes. And you can visualize it.
TOIBIN: Yes.
SOARES: You can visualize that.
TOIBIN: But all she's doing is going over what it means, what it means. I mean, it doesn't matter what side he fought on or what war he was in, he's
simple. He will never come into a room again. And that thought comes through. He will never come into a room again.
SOARES: Does grief reveal who we are, or does it change who we are?
TOIBIN: It's such an unstable thing, grief. Someone said to me once, it's the mouse sadness, which is fine, and then the rat grief. And you can't
control which it is you're dealing with. It comes in waves.
And so, I think you say for almost everyone, it's the same. In other words, if you meet somebody who's had a son killed in a war, and you've had a son
killed in a war, then you see, for once, someone recognizes what it is I've been through. And also, just someone who's brought up a family as a widow.
In meeting another widow, suddenly no one else understands who hasn't been through the experience.
SOARES: Yes. And what I love about your work, if I can speak honestly, is not just the silence, but often what is unsaid, the unspoken. Because often
it's the character, especially in these stories, that linger on, right? You don't always finesse. You don't give us a happy ending. You don't tell us,
you know, how it's going to work out. Why do you decide to do that? Is it for this very moment?
TOIBIN: Well, I think the opposite is almost as awful sometimes, if you spell something out too much, or if you give an easy confrontation. There's
a story called "The Sum of Money," where a boy's been caught stealing in school, has been expelled. Now, my problem is, when I get him home to his
parents, what am I going to do? I'm going to have them shout at him, or his father will punch him, or his mother will shout at him. What if they said
nothing at all?
He looks at them. They're embarrassed. They don't know what to say. And he realizes, if he gets away from them quickly, without seeming to try to get
away from them, it will never be discussed. And then the reader puts the story down, thinking, for the rest of their lives, they're never going to
discuss the very thing they're thinking about most. And my job is to set that up dramatically.
SOARES: But because you don't draw any conclusions, or you don't give it to us, do you find, I mean, do you trust the reader to make up their own
mind? I mean, what kind of reaction have you had from readers to exactly those kind of moments?
TOIBIN: I think that, in a story like that, I have the three characters, but there's another character in that room, which is the reader. And I have
to give the reader enough information. I can't just close the story down too quickly, that he didn't speak. So, I bring it on for a bit more, hoping
the reader will put the book down and think, how very strange life is, something like that, or how puzzling it is, but not, I know everything now,
I don't need to read anymore.
SOARES: How do you know if a story is going to be a short story, if you're going to -- or if you -- for example, "The Catalan Girls," I loved it, it's
almost like a novella, I loved it, I can see it as a longer piece and actually visualize it even as a movie. When do you -- at what point do you
decide that you want more, that you're going to give us more, that you're going to branch out a bit?
TOIBIN: I think with "The Catalan Girls," which is the longest story in the book, which comes from a two-minute encounter with, I was queuing to
see an apartment in Barcelona. These three women came after me, and they were just back from Buenos Aires, they were sisters, they had been born in
Catalonia, and they'd lived their lives in Buenos Aires, and they started to explain to me, all three talking at the same time, the same hairdos, and
they found prices very high. Two minutes.
SOARES: Was that it?
TOIBIN: Yes, oh, yes. And then 30 years later, I set about describing over 100 pages, why they had gone to Buenos Aires, what they did in Buenos
Aires, why they decided to come home, what happened when they came home.
[14:55:00]
And so, it's a funny idea that often you need nothing much, some odd encounter, a glimpse, a glance, to get going, and maybe you need time, but
with that I needed length, it wasn't just about one moment, it was about their history. And so, I needed much more space.
SOARES: Is there an upside of writing a short -- what can you write with a short story? What can you get from a short story that you can't get from a
novel?
TOIBIN: You can get a glimpse of some moment in which something hinges, which something changed, almost like before rain, the air changes,
something as delicate as that, you just can see, oh, I think it's going to rain, but in a story you think, that is the moment when someone realizes
something they didn't know before, or when they made a decision not to do something that they might have done, and you can almost see their whole
life in a second, in a turn, and it's delicate.
And it's delicate. It's a delicate process, you could ruin it by over- explaining it, or by over-dramatizing it, it might look like nothing, but the reader realizes in the end, that was the moment when everything became
apparent even.
SOARES: It's so wonderful to have you on.
TOIBIN: Well, thank you very much.
SOARES: And I'm going to pass you the book, and our pen, if you could sign it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: Fascinating chat. Thanks for watching tonight. I'll be back with "What We Know" after this quick break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
