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Edwards Admits Love Child; "Tonight Show" Truce; The Scott Brown Story

Aired January 21, 2010 - 21:00   ET


JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, John Edwards comes clean on fathering Rielle Hunter`s baby. I don`t want to say Edwards is political road kill, but they`re scraping him off the highway as we speak.

And then women who sleep with men 20 and 30 years younger are called super cougars and while women who sleep 30 years younger are called what? Men.

Plus, "Star" magazine publishes photos of the octo-mom in a bikini; looks like she lost the baby weight, all 183 pounds of it.

All this and more starting now.

From trial lawyer to senator to vice presidential candidate to presidential candidate to philanderer, John Edwards has had a lot of titles. Now he can add Baby Daddy to his resume. After spending a year denying that his mistress`s daughter was his, John Edwards has finally admitted that he is indeed the father of the child.

Quote, "I am Quinn`s father. I will do everything in my power to provide her with the love and support she deserves. It was wrong for me ever to deny she was my daughter and hopefully one day when she understands, she will forgive me."

Very interesting because not too long ago he said this to ABC News "Nightline".


JOHN EDWARDS, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know that it`s not possible that this child could be mine, because of the timing of events. So I know it`s not possible.


BEHAR: You know, when it comes to lying, the man is like a Russian doll. You take one out and there`s another and another and another.

Joining me are Stephen A. Smith, nationally syndicated radio talk show host extraordinaire; Ian Kerner, sex therapist and relationship counselor; plus Keli Goff, commentator and contributing blogger to the

Ok. Keli, is there anyone in the world or in the country -- they don`t care about him in the world -- in the country who is surprised by this?

KELI GOFF, COMMENTATOR: No. But what`s confusing to me is why did it take a year and a half to prove that he`s this kid`s father and to admit when Maury Povich solved this in one segment? It`s like you are not the father or you are the father in this case.

I don`t know why it seemed to take forever or he thought it would take forever for people to know. Certainly because when you look at the photo of the kid it`s sort of like, it looks exactly like him.

BEHAR: I know. She`s got the lips, too.

GOFF: As we say in the south, like he spit her out.


BEHAR: Stephen, he lied twice. What is this, is this his ego? What is he doing? Is it his incredible unbridled ambition or what?

STEPHEN A. SMITH, SYNDICATED RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, it`s unbridled ambition. It`s pretty pathetic. It`s the height of arrogance and it`s a lot of things and none of them are good.

The fact is that he was running for the presidency of the United States, even though he was already losing to Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama in the primaries. He was considered a golden boy by some.

Those people who surrounded him made him think that he was the golden child, that he was the heir apparent, that if it didn`t happen this time around, perhaps those aspirations could be fulfilled in 2012 or beyond. And he got caught up in all of that stuff.

But at the end of the day as far as I`m concerned, he committed the ultimate crime because it`s one thing to deny the existence of a child in private. But publicly when that child grows up, that interview that you just played is something that the child could reach back and point to and recognize you denied me. That`s one thing -- that`s something a child never knows when they`re a child if they do not live with their parents, they are not living in a bubble.

But if you`re John Edwards, the insensitivity first of all to cheating on your wife when she had cancer but then to come out and to publicly deny it, not taking into account the fact that this is something that the child could ultimately grow up and see with her own two eyes that she was denied.

BEHAR: Right.

SMITH: I don`t know how you can recover from that. I don`t know how he could be forgiven for that.

BEHAR: I think he`s come out with this now and fessed up, because his aide, Andrew Young, is coming out with a book where he says -- February 2nd -- and he says that Edwards asked him to steal a diaper for a secret paternity test. That is really skivvie (ph) and low. I mean, come on.

IAN KERNER, SEX THERAPIST: This is kind of a common pattern in infidelity; there`s the cheating and then there`s the lying. And look, infidelity is nothing new. It`s probably the biggest problem that couples in this country face.

Some statistics say that one out of two couples deal with infidelity. Kids are born out of wedlock. I work with a lot of couples on healing from infidelity. And the main thing is honesty; being able to reveal the whole story, to be transparent, be an open book.

But this guy, it`s just lie after lie after lie.

BEHAR: And listen to him describe his wife`s response to his affair on ABC News. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) EDWARDS: She was mad. She was angry. I think furious would be a good way to describe it and it was painful for her, hard and painful for her. But she responded exactly like the woman she is. She forgave me and we went to work on it.

I`m not saying she thought it was okay. I`m not saying that. But she did forgive me.


BEHAR: She forgave him. He can add delusional to his list.

KERNER: And forgiveness doesn`t happen overnight. Forgiveness and infidelity takes years to recover from. So that`s a false statement.

KOFF: Let me just say this. As someone who has met Elizabeth Edwards and who`s had friends who worked for her, I think he`s very lucky that she didn`t have a golf club nearby.

SMITH: May I jump in?

BEHAR: Yes, you may, Stephen.

SMITH: Let me tell you all something right now.

BEHAR: Go ahead.

SMITH: I`ve covered a lot of athletes. I`ve covered a lot of different stories in my journalism career. I`ve run into liars. I`ve run into habitual liars.

I haven`t seen too many people on this planet earth that does it with a smile on their face the way that John Edwards does. This is on another level. I understand everybody wants to point to the sex addiction thing and you know, infidelity...

KOFF: No, no. Not today.


SMITH: I`m just telling you all regardless of where you want to slice it, I don`t know if there is a category for this level of deception not just towards his wife, not just towards his family, not just towards the public at large. But even with total disregard for somebody that everybody now knows is his child. It`s on a different level.

BEHAR: Should she divorce him? She`s very ill.

SMITH: Why waste her time with that? She`s struggling with cancer right now. She knows what he is. She knows he`s a sleaze bag. The bottom line is that she`s got bigger problems to worry about. Why go through the stress of going through a divorce, going to court, doing all of this nonsense when you`re trying to survive and live a few more years?

KERNER: If she can`t trust him again, she should divorce him. I think if you`re going to be in a relationship with somebody, trust has to be at the foundation.


BEHAR: In a new book, Elizabeth is made out to be the biatch, you know what I`m saying. And I would be a bigger biatch than her if I had him for a husband. So I don`t need to agree that she was a bitch.

KOFF: I read that chapter -- I actually read the chapter from the book that you`re referring to, "Game Change" and I was insulted on her behalf because I was saying -- I was thinking to myself, look at what they`re saying Elin Nordegren allegedly did and here you have a woman who on top of that was struggling with cancer ...


KOFF: She gave up -- on top of that gave up a very lucrative career, on top of that lost a child, on top of that was trying to raise her own children and then on top of that when your husband allegedly comes clean, he doesn`t come clean, he comes up with a baby. How would you act?

It`s like -- you know, is there a book for etiquette for how you react when this happens?

BEHAR: Can I move on to Tiger Woods for a second because he`s another philanderer. "The National Enquirer" reportedly spotted the golfer outside a sex rehab center. When scandalous pictures of Tiger surfaced, who would have thought he would be alone in them?

Stephen, what do you make of these pictures? Do you think that`s him first of all? I mean, it`s an allegation.

SMITH: I think it`s him. He looks a little bit like the Unabomber. I don`t understand that thing and all of that stuff. But at the same time, having said all of that, it definitely looked to be him. He is alone because why would anybody be in a clinic for sex addiction with him? He`s lucky if he gets any visitors but right now he doesn`t need it, especially of the female persuasion.

The reality is this, he`s got to go through what he`s got to go through, but ultimately he`s trying to escape the limelight. I think it`s a complete waste of time because at the end of the day, he`s still going to have to come in front of the masses and explain himself.

Geoff Ogilvy said it earlier today, the Australian golfer. He said listen, "I hope he deals with this from a tabloid media perspective before he comes back on the golf course because we don`t need all of this attention brought to us while we`re trying to win tournaments. He needs to handle his business privately by himself.


BEHAR: I like how the golfers are all getting -- the golfers are all upset now.


KERNER: I thought it was an honest photo. He`s alone, he`s at this place. He`s going through the process. If we had seen a big picture of him smiling with his family, that would have seemed as phony as John Edwards. I think he`s in a real place.

BEHAR: You know "The National Enquirer" broke the story as they did the Edwards story also. And I understand that they`re looking to get a Pulitzer Prize.


BEHAR: "The National Enquirer" is breaking more stories than the legitimate press. But "The National Enquirer" gets paid for these stories. So should they be lauded in that way?

KOFF: Well, actually look at what the criteria that the Pulitzer is determined for giving awards. And the word that they said, fundamentally the committee looks upon is the word, "distinguished". And I can think of a lot of words used to describe "The National Enquirer" I don`t know if "distinguished" is at the top of the list. I think this might be a bit of a reach for them.

SMITH: Well, let me say this. As a newspaper journalist for 16 years and counting, here`s what it comes down to. I`d break every story imaginable if I got to give away money and pay sources in order to acquire that. That`s not journalism.

The second you start rewarding that -- it`s one thing to buy their subscription and to recognize they had the story before anybody else. But if they go about the business of circumventing professional decorum and they are paying sources in order to acquire stories, you know what, that`s not journalism. That`s simply paying off somebody to survive.

BEHAR: I`m worried about the whole field, because you know the newspapers are in trouble, everybody is on the Internet now. And "The New York Times" maybe defunct in a few years and so "The Enquirer" and the Internet will take over newspapers.


KOFF: I have the paper here, because I`m a blogger.

BEHAR: Yes go ahead.

KOFF: So I don`t want to be, of course be part of a bad new future. You know you can do good work on the Internet but you have to put some money into doing so...

BEHAR: I want the newspaper in my hands. Ok, I love the "Huffington Post," I love the "Daily Beast". But I have to have the newspaper in my hands.

Thanks, everybody.

Our long national nightmare is over. The NBC deal is done. Jay got a show and Conan got some nice parting gifts. We`ll discuss how the late night landscape will change, next.


BEHAR: After two weeks of bomb throwing and covert (INAUDIBLE), massive sniper fire, an accord has finally been reached in the late night wars. NBC has agreed to pay Conan O`Brien and his staff nearly $45 million to vacate the "Tonight Show" premises and make room for a returning Jay Leno.

But it must be uneasy piece since Conan threw one last grenade. Here`s what he had to say in his monologue last night.


CONAN O`BRIEN, NBC HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": You know, I`ve been having a really hard time explaining the whole situation to my kids, because they`re still very young. Yes, so what I did, is I had a doll made of myself. Now I can show my kids exactly where NBC touched daddy.


BEHAR: They are so funny lately.

So is this severance pay or hush money? Here to discuss this latest turn of events are Howard Kurtz, the media columnist for the "Washington Post" and host of "Reliable Sources" on CNN. And comedian Jim Breuer star of the upcoming documentary "More than Me."

Ok, Howie, Conan gets $32 million, is it hush money? Is it -- you know, what is that about giving him that $32 million? They didn`t really have to, did they?

HOWARD KURTZ, MEDIA COLUMNIST, WASHINGTON POST: Well, yes they did have to, because there are lawyers involved and they needed to pay Conan money to go away and stop using their air waves to trash the network.

I am having kind of an increasingly hard time feeling sorry for Conan O`Brien.

BEHAR: Right.

KURTZ: I mean, he did have seven months to put up the numbers at the "Tonight Show", they had the ratings tanked. And a lot of shows as you know get 13 weeks and that`s it. And also, $32 million not to work; I mean, I think, you can buy a lot of beer with that to drown your sorrows in.

BEHAR: I know, but you know what, I was thinking they let him on the stay on the air and trash them for a couple weeks. We`ve been having a field day with it. Why didn`t they just get rid of him the day he wrote that letter?

KURTZ: That is a very good question.

BEHAR: Thank you.

KURTZ: Because it`s great -- yes, you specialize in that. It`s great for the rest of us. I mean, he`s -- you know, tuning in every night to watch Conan and Jay and they`ve sniped at each other. They`ve never been funnier than when they`re really, really angry.

BEHAR: I know. And it`s an event. It`s like stunting the thing. Jim let me...

KURTZ: It`s like high school.

BEHAR: Yes, it`s exactly like high school.

So $32 million is a lot of money. Is Conan having the last laugh here, Jim?

JIM BREUER, COMEDIAN: I think Conan comes out looking real good at the end, because first of all, if I were to have that $32 million, let`s say he goes to another network, I would use my own money to use advertising space on the "Tonight Show" to promote myself.


BREUER: Without leaving the net...

BEHAR: Howie, what do you think about that idea? Do you think it`s a good idea?

KURTZ: I`d love to see them get that past the NBC censors. But you know, before we get carried away, I mean, this was a high profile flop for Conan O`Brien. With the takeover of the "Tonight Show" and then get (INAUDIBLE) booted by the guy that you replaced is not a lot of fun, money aside these comedians have pride.

And it`s not going to be all that easy for Conan to go over to Fox or whatever network he lands on and compete not just against David Letterman and Nightline but also against Jay Leno. They`ll be battling for scraps of a much smaller pie.

BEHAR: That`s right and as part of the deal Conan won`t be able to take bits like his fabulous intellectual masturbating bear with him. They`ll stay with NBC. I`m sure Jeff Zucker loves that.

Here`s Letterman`s take on it.


DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, "LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": Listen to this, Conan O`Brien he had the "Tonight Show" and now he`s leaving and NBC is negotiating with him and it`s that intellectual property. He can`t take his signature comedy bits with him. But that`s ok, Jay will take them.


BEHAR: I mean, he`s basically saying that Jay is a thief. I mean, I don`t think that`s very nice, do you? And Jay is taking a beating in all of this. What do you think?

KURTZ: Well, first of all, Dave Letterman is having a great time saying that Jay Leno is a thief and also Jay Leno is giving it right back to Dave by bringing up the sex scandal...

BEHAR: Right.

KURTZ: ...and doing the intern and all of that. I think these guys - - I`m really starting to get the impression Joy, that they don`t like each other. That it`s...

BEHAR: Really, Howard? It could have fooled me.

What do you think of that barb, Jim? I mean, you`re a comic. That was nasty, I think. But Jim, we`re going to...

BREUER: The banter back and forth?

BEHAR: ...we`re going to play a Leno one that`s very nasty also. But what about this...

BREUER: I said the Leno one was nastier.

BEHAR: Well, just talk about this one first because I didn`t get...

BREUER: I think it`s hilarious. This is better than watching any news segment or anything. This makes me forget about arguments with my wife and chasing my kids around. And this is better than any event in the history of -- I can tell you, Obama is going -- thank you. Tiger Woods, everyone is enjoying this.

BEHAR: Ok now, here`s what Leno said in his monologue last night. Watch this.


JAY LENO, HOST, "THE JAY LENO SHOW": And Letterman, Letterman has been hammering me every night.


LENO: Oh going after me. Hey Kev, you know the best way to get Letterman to ignore you?


LENO: Marry him. Ok, that`s going to do that. He will not bother you. He won`t look you in the eye. No problem at all.


BEHAR: Ok, that was a low blow, because even the mob doesn`t go after the family, you know what I`m saying?

KURTZ: It was below the belt.


KURTZ: But you know, I do think, you know, although Jay is stretching the boundaries of good taste with those kinds of jokes, that he`s been unfairly painted as the heavy here. I mean, he was number one on the "Tonight Show". He was kicked out of that job and put on primetime which was a dumb idea. That didn`t work.

So NBC then blew up that show and asked if he would go back to 11:30. There is no evidence that Jay has been quietly scheming to try to usurp Conan. And I think...

BEHAR: (INAUDIBLE) But why is he getting this wrap? Is it just perception? Because he seems to be getting the worst reputation out of all of it right now.

KURTZ: I think that Conan O`Brien did a very smart thing by putting out that letter about a week ago in which he basically painted himself as the victim. And Jay has remained quiet, he hadn`t given any interviews. He did the jokes. It wasn`t until the other night Joy, when he gave a fairly serious explanation of how none of this was his doing.

But every plot has got to have a bad guy and Jay fairly or unfairly is filling that role.

BEHAR: Go ahead Jim.

BREUER: I don`t know. See, if I had -- when someone asks you, if they ask you here at CNN, "Joy, would you like this show at this time?" You either say yes or no.


BREUER: Jay made it -- Jay made it seem like he`s like, yes, yes, I didn`t want to do the 10:00 show but he said, yes. So he did it.

BEHAR: I think that he...

BREUER: So it wasn`t like he was shoved there.

BEHAR: I think that he -- wait a second -- I don`t think he had a choice.

BREUER: But he was retiring, you know.

BEHAR: He wasn`t that old yet and he said listen, you want me to move to the 10:00, ok. I`ll do it. But I don`t think he wanted to.

BREUER: I thought he was done in like six months. If I was Jay, but I don`t know, if they said you`re done in six months, I would have retired. I`m number one. And then I would have sat back and watched them fail and then call me back. You know what I mean?

BEHAR: Yes. But Jay is a workaholic. He works on weekends.

BREUER: I can see that.

BEHAR: He wants to work. He doesn`t want to just sit home. What does he spend his money on, more cars? It`s ridiculous.

BREUER: Yes. He does standup on his vacation.

BEHAR: Exactly. Ok thank you, guys.

Scott Brown is the new senator for Massachusetts and he`s got two available daughters. We`ll discuss in a minute.


BEHAR: I`m not sure what I find more surprising, conservative Republican Scott Brown`s senate win in Massachusetts or what he said about his daughters during his victory speech.


SCOTT BROWN, SENATOR-ELECT, MASSACHUSETTS: And just in case anybody who is watching throughout the country, yes, they`re both available.


BEHAR: Maybe they`re on eBay.

With me to respond to this is political commentator Ana Marie Cox. Ana, what would your father say to -- would he say anything like that to you?

ANA MARIE COX, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I cannot imagine my father saying anything like that at all. I think that`s actually -- and it`s probably a good thing. I think most fathers tend not to advertise their daughter`s sexual availability unless, I don`t know -- they`re looking for a dowry or something. I`m not sure what he was thinking.

BEHAR: My father would have been -- he wouldn`t even look at me, you know what I mean? He ignored me constantly.

COX: They`re supposed to be uncomfortable. The dads are supposed to be uncomfortable with their daughters becoming adults. That`s the way it works. It`s natural.

BEHAR: It`s creepy.

Ok. Let`s look at this new photo that popped up on It`s the senator-elect with his two bikini clad daughters. Do you find this odd especially after the "available" comment?

COX: I presume that the photo was taken before the "available" comment. I assume also that they were both available then. They certainly look available. They`re advertising some kind of availability.

It`s -- I find that very awkward. I can`t imagine being in a similar position, myself. I`m sure you can`t either.

BEHAR: I cannot.

COX: It`s hard to -- some families are very close, I guess.

BEHAR: Is it a little weirder because he`s a conservative Republican? If it was a Democrat, would we really care or talk about it?

COX: But then again, he`s also posed in the nude, so maybe this is just something that runs in the family.

BEHAR: Oh yes.

COX: Maybe they just don`t like wearing clothes.

BEHAR: There he is.

COX: I mean it could be that they`re just comfortable with their bodies.

BEHAR: It`s interesting about Massachusetts. They had JFK, RFK, then they had Edward Kennedy, Romney and now this guy. They seem to have a type.

COX: You`re thinking that politicians in Massachusetts tend to be handsome?

BEHAR: They do. I mean we`re stuck in New York with like Rudy Giuliani, you know what I mean?

COX: Barney Frank isn`t really my type, but I like him as well.

BEHAR: Who`s not your type?

COX: Barney Frank.

BEHAR: Barney Frank, he plays for the other team.

COX: Right, not my type.

BEHAR: Yes. He`s not your type.

COX: But he totally -- I would put him in a category of handsome legislators from Massachusetts.

BEHAR: Yes. Now, Glenn Beck says he doesn`t trust him. Does that mean we should like him more?

COX: I think that means we should be less frightened of him. And it`s true, just to be serious for a second. I mean, he is I think what a party any other time would denounce as a rhino. He got elected by the so- called TEA baggers, but he isn`t really one of them, at least not so far.

So that`s good for us. What we think. I do think Glenn Beck`s seal of disapproval is probably something that I would advertise if I had it. Maybe if we`re lucky, we can get one later.

BEHAR: Yes. But he -- the guy is pro-choice, he`s against gay marriage and he`s allegedly one of these, what they call fiscal conservative, which means no money for the poor. That`s what that usually means.

COX: Yes, that`s what it usually means. And also that`s the easy part of conservatism. That`s the thing that`s easy to say. I think actually sometimes it`s harder to be a true conservative about such things but also get the government out of all parts of our life.

We`ll see what happens. He`s being treated like a movie star here.

BEHAR: He`s a movie star. He`s very handsome. Totally -- I`m turned on to the guy.

COX: I would pose in a bikini next to him, I guess. You know what I mean. You can be on the other side.

BEHAR: Thank you so much Ana for sharing your thoughts with me.

Up next, I`ll discuss the rise of the cougar with Hulk Hogan`s ex- wife, Linda.


BEHAR: Forty years ago, audiences were shocked when Ann bankrupted seduced Dustin Hoffman in a movie called The Graduate. But today an older woman hooking up with a somewhat younger man is a noise. Now it seems the latest trend is women dating men 20 or 30 years younger and that`s not even counting Cher. So are these new super cougars trailblazers who are challenging the old power dynamic or are they just a bunch of horny old broads filling their oaths. Joining me now is Linda Hogan, ex wife of Hulk Hogan who is now dating a much younger man. Linda, thank you for joining me.

LINDA HOGAN, EX WIFE OF HULK HOGAN: You`re welcome. Thank you.

BEHAR: Let`s take a look at you with the 21-year-old guy that you`re dating, Charlie. There are pictures from TMZ, there you are. Very nice.

HOGAN: Uh-huh.

BEHAR: A lot of people in the media have been calling you a cougar for dating him. How do you feel about the label?

HOGAN: You know what I didn`t even really know what a cougar was. I was just a little bit in the dark. I was coming out of a pretty tumultuous divorce and the way we met was just very natural on the beach. Once we made the red carpet at the Palms in Las Vegas, the word cougar came up and I was like oh, okay, I guess I`m a cougar, whatever.

BEHAR: A cougar is a predator, actually. A cougar is a predatory animal. It`s not even funny.


HOGAN: And you know they call the boyfriends the young bucks. So yeah, that`s true.

(LAUGHTER) BEHAR: The young bucks, well when it was the other way around with the man and the younger, he was a latch and she was a gold digger. So now all the terms are changing now so.

HOGAN: And you know what, the whole the thing is like being a gold digger, you know, I don`t know. I don`t know that whole term. I`ve been called that even throughout my divorce. It`s just so not true. I really think that just being, you know, an older woman and you come out of a divorce. I have a little bit of money. I`m just looking for love right now.

BEHAR: Oh we all are, we all are. It`s true, we are. Everyone. But you know you guys have a 30-year age difference. What is the attraction exactly?

HOGAN: I was walking down the beach at Clear Water and I saw this big, tall blond stud muffin and I was a little bit lonely. And I said, wow, I was with my son Nick actually. I hate to say but I said Nick, go check it out, is he cool? And he went over there and he said yeah, he says, it seems like he`s really nice. So we ended up talking and dating. He`s a great listener. And at the time that I met him was a time where I was going through such a traumatic time in my life with a divorce and the separation of my family. And other things and it was just a great time to meet him. I really think that God put him there for me. And at that time age, it was the last thing that was on my mind or his.

BEHAR: I tell you I would have trouble with a guy 30 years younger than me because I`m afraid he`s going to yell out mommy during sex.


HOGAN: Is that so wrong?


BEHAR: Well, I don`t care for the name mommy except when it`s a toddler next to me. Any drawbacks to -- have you found a drawback. Because you sound happy, happy, happy.

HOGAN: I am happy. And there are no drawbacks. I mean truthfully I never really planned on being single at 50 years old. I really just didn`t. I didn`t know that I would end up being divorced. I thought I would be married forever. You know, the situation came, I`m divorced, and I really didn`t know what my future held. I met Charlie and he was just like such an amazing soul mate. He`s just such a great listener. Hey came --

BEHAR: But you know, Linda, that when -- you`re 60 now?

HOGAN: Excuse me? I`m going to have Hulk Hogan beat your butt.

BEHAR: I`m sorry, I`m sorry I didn`t hear the number before and I can`t see you from this distance frankly.

HOGAN: Oh okay, I`m 50.

BEHAR: Oh so she`s a - no she`s not a jaguar, how old are you?

HOGAN: 50.

BEHAR: And he`s how old? 20?

HOGAN: 21.

BEHAR: Okay, so there`s a 30-year difference. When you`re 70, it gets a little shaky, don`t you think?

HOGAN: Well that`s the weird thing. If he doesn`t mind pushing me around in the wheelchair, okay, fine. But on the other hand, on a reality level, I look at it and I think you know I am the older person in the relationship. And he does have a beautiful family that he came from. You know and I have two children.


HOGAN: And I`m concerned about what does everybody think, it is an issue. I think right now we`re just sort of dating and I just came out of a rough divorce.


HOGAN: And a lot of different legal stuff. And you know, he`s young. He has time. And so I think that there`s not really a real pressure on us right now to make a decision.

BEHAR: Uh huh.

HOGAN: But in the next few years, I feel like, you know, God will chart our course and that will be the way it goes.

BEHAR: You know what they say like they say in the 12-step program, one step at a time. So this is happening now, enjoy yourself.

HOGAN: Exactly, Joy.

BEHAR: Let me bring in my panel.

HOGAN: Okay.

BEHAR: I have Steve Ward, author of "Crash Course In Love", and host of the VH1 show "Tough Love." and Linda Franklin, author of "Don`t Ever Call Me Ma`am: The Real Cougar Woman Handbook." I love that. So Steve, you`re the dating expert.


BEHAR: How do you think this is going to work out?

WARD: I don`t think it`s going to work out long-term, no offense, Linda. Sounds like you`re having a great time.

BEHAR: She certainly is.

WARD: I don`t know - I don`t know what it`s like to have three kids, let alone two, but I`d imagine it`s probably very similar in terms of maturity level and personality.

HOGAN: No, it`s not. I hate to disagree with you, but it is not.

BEHAR: How is it different? How is it different?

WARD: How is it different? He`s just the way he was raised and the responsibility level is just amazing. I don`t know, he`s a man`s man.

WARD: So his parents raised him better than you raised your kids, is that what you are saying?

HOGAN: I`m sorry, I didn`t hear you?

WARD: Are you saying that his parents raised him better than you raised your kids? HOGAN: No, I`m not saying that at all. You`re saying that.

WARD: Well that`s what it implies. I saw the photo, I would think that he was your son. You guys look strikingly similar.

BEHAR: Yes, no but that`s, you know, she`s having a good time with him. She must have - she had a rough time, she just told you.

WARD: Understandable.

BEHAR: She`s happy now, you know.

WARD: Good for her.

BEHAR: Linda, get into this now. There`s a trend in Hollywood that`s bigger and bigger age brackets. Susan Sarandon -

HOGAN: Right.

BEHAR: Allegedly, I love Susan, I know her, she`s a great gal. She hasn`t really said this is true but there`s a rumor that she`s 63 and her guy is 31.


BEHAR: Now if you`re going to be 31 and go for an older woman, Susan is your girl. And then there`s director Taylor Wood, who is 42 who got his girlfriend, a 19-year-old girlfriend pregnant. Now what`s going on?

LINDA FRANKLIN, AUTHOR, "DON`T EVER CALL ME MA`AM": Listen, I don`t know. I think women are feeling their power and they`re saying if it`s okay for the men then it`s okay for us.

BEHAR: Uh huh.

FRANKLIN: And they`re not worried so much about now what other people are saying. They`re saying if this makes me happy and if it works for both of us, let`s do it.

BEHAR: Uh huh.

FRANKLIN: And as you said, take one step at a time.

BEHAR: What`s the appeal, though, to these extremely younger men?

FRANKLIN: Well you know there are extremes. I have women in my community that are with guys 20 years younger and I have women with guys 10 years younger. So personally I could not see myself with a guy 30 years younger but it`s a matter of taste. One thing that all of the women say is when they start these relationships, age doesn`t factor in. They just need someone. They have a connection. And as they move along, the age thing comes up, but it`s not there at the beginning.

HOGAN: Okay. Excuse me, if I may say something.

BEHAR: Go ahead Linda.

HOGAN: You know, it`s a double standard, okay? When I was younger, I dated older guys. And now that I`m older, I`m dating a younger guy. You know why doesn`t anybody think that it`s so bad that, you know, no offense, my ex, is dating somebody that`s 23 years younger than him.

BEHAR: Correct, Hulk Hogan, exactly.

FRANKLIN: That`s exactly right, the double standard is alive and well and that`s something I`m trying to fight in my community, it`s just not fair.

BEHAR: He was on, he was on, Hulk was on the show. Can we show the tape of Hulk when he was on the show with me? Because he does mention it. There it is.


HULK HOGAN: The world`s champion, everybody looks up to you. And then all of a sudden all your friends and your family and everybody there is telling you that there`s a young kid driving your cars and your motorcycles and your boats and sleeping in bed with your wife, it does something to you when you`re a man.


BEHAR: Okay. See? He doesn`t like it, right, Linda?

HOGAN: Okay, I know he`s crushed and I am too. It`s the end of our family relationship and it`s a sad moment. It`s a sad time in our lives. But I still love him. I learned a lot from being married to him. He was a wonderful dad. A wonderful father. And you know something? I`m don`t - I`m really not bitter. I have to tell you, I --

BEHAR: No, of course not, you`re having great sex, right now. Why would you be bitter either - who would be bitter?


WARD: It is what it is?

HOGAN: I walked the red carpet and I went to so many wrestling matches you can`t even count. I mean really, we built that business together and I support him in whatever he does. I think he`s with TNA now, so everybody watch TNA. He`s really an amazing guy. I don`t have any bitterness towards him. And I don`t like what the tabloids say.

WARD: I don`t have any problem with Linda dating a younger guy and having a lot of funnel.

BEHAR: You sound a little judgmental.

WARD: No, I think it`s great, have fun, have a good time and everything. But if you think he`s going to stay there, you know, for the next 10, 15, 20 years, I think you`re just diluting yourself. You`re going to set yourself up for a lot of disappointment when he decides he wants to have kids or he wants to start a family.

HOGAN: I don`t agree.

BEHAR: You don`t agree with that Linda let`s see?


FRANKLIN: No, I don`t agree with that because as I have said I have so many women in my community and they`re married to them for 10, 15 years and -

WARD: And I`m sure they`re very successful.

FRANKLIN: They`re very happy.

WARD: They take very good care of these men.

FRANKLIN: Well that`s not true, in a lot of it, it`s a 50-50 proposition.

BEHAR: I wonder if he would say the same thing if it`s a 30-year gap between a man and a woman which happens constantly.

WARD: Oh I completely agree.

BEHAR: Does the name Woody Allen ring a bell?

WARD: And I`m not - you know what I`m telling you that I don`t think that those relationships are going to be healthier either. But they do have their -

BEHAR: Why? Woody has been married to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for a long time now.

WARD: Well that`s what I`m saying they have more likelihood to last longer, because at the end of the day --


WARD: Well men have more virility.

BEHAR: Oh really?

WARD: They can -


HOGAN: That`s not what we`ve been hearing. Can I just say one thing?

WARD: Look at Mel Gibson -


WARD: He`s almost 60 years old, I mean men have that right to be able to pro create until the day they die.

BEHAR: They have that right? You know I heard that the sperm of an older man --


HOGAN: It`s not just about the sex.


WARD: If you have a child as a woman in her 40s, you run the risk of birth defects and you know that`s something that a lot of men aren`t going to want to take a chance on.

BEHAR: Okay Linda, what did you want to tell him?

HOGAN: What I want to say is that it`s not about the sex, it`s about a lifestyle. And that when you are --

WARD: It`s not about the sex?

HOGAN: When you are with somebody so long that they are the main dude and they`re earning the money, you take the back seat. Now I was the support system to that. I mean I was like miss energy. You know I mean I could like take Brook to the recording studio, do the car pool, and get the homework done. I did the whole mom, married wife thing with a celebrity. It was a lot of work. But now in my life, I`m looking at it like, hey, I`m in control. I have a great guy.

BEHAR: Listen, we`re happy for Linda. Aren`t we happy for Linda?

FRANKLIN: We are happy -

WARD: We are very happy for her.

FRANKLIN: One day at a time.

BEHAR: One day at a time, okay thanks, everybody. We`ll be back in a minute. Stick around.


BEHAR: This week was a Barbie doll nightmare. Skeletal actresses at down the red carpet at the Golden Globes. Then "People" magazine ran a story about Heidi Montag`s 10 plastic surgeries. Is she planning to have one for every year she`s alive. If she lives to be 90, she`ll look like a hand puppet. And then there`s the octomom denying she had surgery but looking flawless after giving birth to the entire graduating class of 2023. Listen, women used to start worrying about their bodies a little before bathing suit season. Now it seems we have to start worrying a little before our second birthdays. Joining me to discuss these stories and how crazy people are making us crazier about how we look are actress Marissa Jaret Winokur, plus size model, Emme, the chair ambassador for the national eating disorders association and founder of and Janice Min, whose been here before, former editor and chief of "US" weekly. Hello, ladies.

Hello Joy.

BEHAR: Are they trying to drive us crazy, is that what this is about? They`re just trying to kill women?

EMME, NATIONAL EATING DISORDER ASSOCIATION: There`s so many mixed messages being sent out with saying that octomom lost how many -- 100 something odd pounds without surgery. I mean that -- I`m sorry I --

BEHAR: She was 270 and now she`s 120. Okay?

EMME: I`m picking up my jaw --

BEHAR: We have a picture right? It was almost a year ago that octomom gave birth to her eight little ones and how -

EMME: That`s not healthy.

BEHAR: And how is she celebrating? By bearing her bikini body in "Star" magazine, look. There she is, look her in front of you --

EMME: I see, I see - is that healthy? No, it`s horrendously healthy, it`s a horrible, horrible message to get out there. It really is.


BEHAR: Go ahead Janice.

MIN: She has 14 kids, who is working on their body this past year?

EMME: I don`t even have time.

MIN: Exactly, I mean who can even --

BEHAR: She works out in the middle of the night she says.

MIN: Yes.

BEHAR: Between breastfeedings I guess.


MIN: Yes, wait I want to share though when I was at "US weekly" in June or July, we, you know octomom, because of her rep, of course she has a publicist, they told us octomom was going away for a little operation, a little, she had some female plumbing issues that had to get taken care of. So we you know, that was all that was discussed. But I mean, I find it very coincidental that back then, a few months later, tada here she is suddenly very thin.

BEHAR: I know but look at these pictures from TMZ from when she was pregnant with her octuplets. See that?

MIN: I mean we all saw Kate Gosselin.

BEHAR: Oh my God, she`s a balloon, holy Christmas. She says she`s never had any plastic surgery. Do you believe her?

MARISSA JAREET WINOKUR, ACTRESS: Well I actually, the comment about her saying she`s working out at night, I`m a new mom, I have a child that`s a year and a half old and I can barely work out, you know, five minutes a day. I`m trying really hard so I can`t imagine with 8 children actually --

EMME: 14. 14, Can you imagine?

WINOKUR: Oh yeah, 14.

EMME: Right.

WINOKUR: But 8 newborns, that`s like 8 1-year-olds. How can anybody be working out unless you have 10 people helping you and you`re at a ranch, like. I actually had to go away - I went away to a fitness camp so that I could lose weight and I had to leave my son for three weeks. So I can tell you, I don`t know about she`s doing it late at night on her own.

BEHAR: What if she said she wanted to do this, whatever she did naturally. But you know she had invitro to have all these kids.

EMME: Well, I don`t care.

BEHAR: So there`s a little bit of a discrepancy there.

MIN: Also, also look at her face. This is someone who probably had some work done on her face to look a little bit maybe like Angelina Jolie but who has steadfastly denied that she ever had work done. She says that her face changed when she got pregnant.


BEHAR: It`s because she shot it up with collagen.

MIN: Exactly.

BEHAR: And she had her nose done and whatever else.

EMME: We`re going to find out that she has a company that`s backing her for a new DVD, a new book, and what message is that sending?

BEHAR: Well it doesn`t do a great message, I mean if you`re at home and you`ve had a baby and you`re looking at pictures like this, she`s not the first one to do this. It`s really intimidating to women.

MIN: Well I think the problem is -

BEHAR: Well yes I agree.

MIN: 80 percent of women know that something is up here, that she probably had surgery. But 20 percent of women, in the back of your mind, you still wonder maybe there is some secret I`m not aware of. Maybe I should try a little harder, and I think that`s the message --

BEHAR: Okay let`s talk about Heidi Montag. Now this one has had ten plastic surgery procedures in one - in one day. So is she addicted? She says I`m not. She says I`m not because if I was addicted, I would have ten days worth. I did it all in one day, so I`m not addicted.

EMME: This is a real issue. And some people can start with one. I mean she started out as a beautiful, young lady. And then I think we`re going to see a lot of reality show people go through this perfection driven to find perfection where we all know there is no perfection out there, we just have to make what we have the best it can be. It`s sad to see that she is sending yet another message out to young America, as well as American women, that she started out as beautiful and she doesn`t think that that`s right. So she`s yet going to get put in bigger boobs, eye draws, when you don`t even need it.

BEHAR: The picture inside that magazine, she looks like she was beaten up by Mike Tyson. I mean you should see the pictures. This is not pretty -- what happens. It`s not like overnight, you suddenly, you know, Siegfried and Roy come in and change your whole look.

EMME: That`s right.

MIN: I think you know -

BEHAR: Am I plastic surgeons? What am I talking about?


BEHAR: Sorry go ahead.

MIN: I know Heidi, I`ve met Heidi many, many times and she is a nice, nice young lady.

BEHAR: Yes, she is a nice girl.

MIN: You know she professes to have this great relationship with God, like takes - you know thinks she is good, very earnest.

BEHAR: If she loves God so much.

MIN: Well God gave her that body. I know.

BEHAR: The other thing -- there is always these confusing thoughts that people are having.

MIN: Instead of an addiction to plastic surgery, I think she is addicted to attention. Would she go through this if she weren`t getting a magazine cover?

EMME: Something going on deeper, obviously there is something going on that`s not just on the surface.

BEHAR: Right, stay right there when we come back, I want to talk about the Golden Globes, so don`t go away. And the bodies.


BEHAR: I`m back with my panel. Okay, a "New York Times" blog written by Andy Port says that some of the ladies who showed up at the Golden Globes had put on a little weight and sported sexier curves. Was this person watching the same telecast I was? They looked anorexic, a lot of them still look anorexic to me.

MIN: Right. I think we have -- we are suffering from national body dysmorphia right now. We live in an age of so much media and so much competition in Hollywood that they are having their own competition out there about who can be thinner, who can be more perfect and we, in turn, our eye adjusts. And I think obviously, these women go to the Golden Globes to show off their amazing bodies, they are not wearing burqas on the red carpet. And I think it`s okay to comment on how their bodies look but I do think it is a reflection of the obsession with it.

BEHAR: Let me talk to Marissa out there, because she said -- this writer said that these women had a womanly roundness. Now, if that`s womanly roundness, I`m ready to put a gun to my head.

WINOKUR: I know. I`m usually called womanly roundless, oh, no Courteney Cox is going to take my roles.

EMME: Don`t you think it`s unfair, Marissa that Courteney Cox and who else--

WINOKUR: Yeah it is.

EMME: Who else? Jennifer Aniston?


BEHAR: But I mean is it driving them further into their anorexic selves or do you think they are naturally --

MIN: They are just taking a stand. Maybe they are taking a stand.

EMME: Go ahead Marissa, go ahead.

WINOKUR: Well, no, I just think a lot of people say oh, who care what is bloggers say and who cares what the internet is saying or a media person says but this is a perfect example of Heidi said that people would circle her chin and say, oh I look like Jay Leno and there she was like so I got my chin done. So, I don`t think people realize what their words are really doing to actresses to, us. I mean it really -- you think that I don`t read what people say, like we read it, we see it and I think people need to kind of think about what they are saying, not just sit at home behind a computer.

BEHAR: Is it too harsh of me to say that beauty editors at "Vogue" and those magazines are war criminals? Do you thank you is too harsh?

EMME: I think we need to take responsibility around our conference room tables each time that an editor meeting is taking place or any kind of casting situation. We really need to take responsibility and remember, we are mothers, we are cousins, we are nephews, we are nieces of children. And whenever we send out a message of ultra, ultrathin image as the only image, you know, to attain or that the ideal is, it`s prepubescent. We already grew up away from that, so, if you show more diversity and not call attention to it and just celebrate what they are wearing and talk about what they are doing for their career.


EMME: it would give us all a great, great sigh of relief, as well as, you know, we will stop brain washing ourselves.

BEHAR: We are brain washed. I know but it`s mostly women on our case, it`s not the men.

EMME: Listen, it is across-the-board, people are looking after their jobs, the people at the big magazines.

BEHAR: But I mean, in general, I think that men do like a little flesh on a woman.

EMME: Oh, yes, absolutely.

MIN: This is like female -- sit around and trash other women`s bodies.

BEHAR: Trash other women`s bodies.

MIN: You know, and also, I think we are also -- remember are, we are in the peak of diet season, like lot of food recrimination going on right now and I think that the Golden Globes is almost this release for a lot of women, like, ha, off trainer and you are paid to be thin and, you know what --

BEHAR: And there is a war going on between Weight Watchers and Jenny Craig right now, female war, you know? I it is like the Olsen twins fighting. Thanks to my panel for joining me tonight and thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.