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Joy Behar Page
Interview with Randy Jackson; Interview with Kevin Bacon
Aired January 22, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, "American Idol" judge Randy Jackson joins me in the studio. Maybe we`ll perform a due of "Islands in the Stream".
Then Kevin Bacon tells me why he doesn`t work for praise, statues, awards and pats on the back. Well, that makes one of us.
And super cougars, women who sleep with men 20 and 30 years younger than they are. Sure sleeping with an older woman is hip now, but what about when she`s 80 and needs a hip, huh?
All that and more starts right now.
From politics to showbiz, there was plenty of juicy red meat to bite into this week, so let`s dig right in with my guests: comedian Bill Bellamy; Cat Greenleaf, host of WNBC`s talk stoop with Cat Greenleaf; and comedian Jim Breuer who stars in the upcoming documentary, "More than Me".
Ok, first, John Edwards has popped up again, which I guess makes sense considering that he`s political toast. Edwards now admits he fathered Rielle Hunter`s daughter. But wait a second, I seem to recall something he said in 2008.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN EDWARDS, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know that it`s not possible that this child could be mine, because of the timing of events. So I know it`s not possible. Happy to take a paternity test and would love to see it happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Score on the paternity test, F; f for father. Why did he come clean now, Kat, do you think? I mean, he`s toast, right.
CAT GREENLEAF, HOST, "TALK STOOP WITH CAT GREENLEAF": Super toast. But what`s funny is, you know, he showed up in Haiti like to beat the heat. Seriously, how bad can your life be when Haiti is a vacation at this point? Yes, he`s down there really trying to get out of it.
BEHAR: Well, he`s trying to repair his image by going to Haiti. That`s not such a stupid idea.
GREENLEAF: Yes, but beyond repair at this point.
Here`s why I think it`s coming out now. A lot of people say Andrew Young, the former aide, has a tell-all book coming out that was going to tell all and let everybody know that he was the real baby daddy, so he wanted to take ownership before someone else.
BEHAR: And he asked Andrew Young to take baby`s diaper to do the DNA test. Oh, yes, he`s a sleaze.
BILL BELLAMY, COMEDIAN: You know what I liked about that first -- that speech you just showed? It was like, "It`s impossible, at that time, because the timing was right." Basically what he`s saying is she said she was on the pill.
BEHAR: Right.
Jim, did you buy into that rags to riches story he was...
JIM BREUER, COMEDIAN: I fell for that hook, line and sinker. My dad was a garbage man, so he`s like, we`re blue collar. I perked right up, but I was telling Bill, there was something about his haircut that was just too nice that I just didn`t trust.
BELLAMY: Didn`t read total blue collar.
BREUER: He had no scruff. He had no -- you would say, I would like to see a little...
BEHAR: Too pretty.
BREUER: Maybe a little -- all right, I`m with you. But that whole...
BEHAR: Cat, Mrs. Edwards, Elizabeth, the long suffering...
GREENLEAF: Long suffering Elizabeth, no doubt.
BEHAR: He says that she forgave him. Do you think she forgave.
GREENLEAF: Oh, no, absolutely not.
I think she`s keeping him around to torture him little by little, day by day. And let me tell you, he deserves it.
BEHAR: Yes.
GREENLEAF: It`s true, yes.
BEHAR: But I mean, what advice would you give Elizabeth? Do you have any advice for her?
BELLAMY: I would think that Elizabeth, she`s been through a lot because of that situation. If they can find a way to work it out, which is probably tough, it would be kind of cool. Because most chicks would leave typically, like you got a baby, bye; but you know, he was with her for a long time.
When I saw her on another show, she actually said like she still loved the dude.
BEHAR: But it was depressing for women because when they were out as a couple, women were like, wow, he`s like a really gorgeous guy and his wife is a natural normal looking woman and isn`t that great that he loves her. And then you find out, no, he`s a dog.
BREUER: Kind of a little duped side to it, too.
BELLAMY: I`m saying, I don`t know their history, but it`s kind of weird because she`s kind of like mildly good-looking, he`s a great looking guy.
BEHAR: Well, she has cancer.
The woman has cancer. Why does she have to be even mildly good looking?
BELLAMY: She didn`t have cancer back in the day. I`m talking like when they got together, Joy, he was like a trophy dude, she`s like ok. She wasn`t like the cute cheerleader. She`s like third cheerleader over there. She`s not the one on top.
BEHAR: Let`s turn to my favorite second story of the week, Republican Scott Brown won Teddy Kennedy`s former Senate seat and immediately starts peddling his daughters, like they`re a couple of Marie Osmond dolls on QBC. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BROWN (R), SENATOR ELECT, MASSACHUSETTS: I want to thank Ayla and Arianna for their help as well. And just in case anybody who is watching throughout the country, yes, they`re both available. No, no, no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know what? Why didn`t he put them in a couple of burqas and call Yemen?
BELLAMY: we`re at a regular barbecue and dad just like got a promotion and he`s like look, "I`m happy, my daughters are single," no one would trip about that. It`s just because he`s a politician.
GREENLEAF: No, it`s because it was his very first national press appearance and he took the opportunity to pimp his daughters. To which I say, "Thank you, Scott Brown". This is going to be an awesome next few years, you are hilarious. What other crazy crap is he going to come up with?
BELLAMY: I mean if he would put them in Maxim that would be good.
BREUER: I think we`re all missing something here. I think that was a message to the ex-boyfriend to be honest with you. As a father of children, when you got that punk Todd just staring at you in the kitchen and he got a little, "Hi, Mr. Breuer". Now he just told the world, "By the way, they`re available, Todd.
BELLAMY: I like that.
BEHAR: Ok. Check out this photo of Brown with his daughters from animalnework.com. Look at this picture. There he is. Would your father ever pose with you in a picture like that or would he pull your hair out?
GREENLEAF: My father would ground me until I was 57 years old if I ever showed up in either one of those bikinis.
BELLAMY: First of all, that looked like a vacation picture. He had a Tommy Bahama (ph) shirt on. You can`t wear that unless you`re where tropical trees are. That looks like the lobby of Four Seasons, I go there all the time. I think that was right after the pool.
GREENLEAF: She has shells on. Come on.
BELLAMY: They`re rich. You get shells when your mommy and daddy have money.
BEHAR: Any idiot can go to the beach and get shells.
There`s another picture of Brown out this week. Now, this is very dishy.
BELLAMY: What is going on here?
BEHAR: This is your senator from Massachusetts.
BELLAMY: Oh, man, what was he doing back in the day? Is that Warren Beatty?
GREENLEAF: Look at that treasure trail.
BELLAMY: Well, you know what I think he was pimping back in the day. What was that for though, Joy?
BEHAR: That was for Playboy -- what was it -- Cosmo magazine -- you know the centerfold type of thing. Remember Burt Reynolds, the first one. He had full Monty Burt Reynolds, oh yes. Years later he just took his toupee and put it over there.
BELLAMY: Yes, way to go, Joy.
BREUER: In all due defense to that shot, I was probably maybe one conversation from possibly doing the same thing. At that age, I...
BEHAR: Take off your shirt, let me see what you got.
BREUER: Back in the day, I thought I was the Brad Pitt of comedy. You should see some of my headshots. If someone said you can be a model, and I was not far from that situation, just I got...
BEHAR: You know, delusion comes in all colors.
BREUER: But it`s true. There`s pictures of me with like a little tennis racket somewhere.
BELLAMY: But you had a racket, he`s laying in a milk tub or something.
BEHAR: I don`t know.
Ok. Let`s change the subject again. Tonight ends Conan O`Brien`s 7-month "Tonight Show" run. This is an ugly divorce. It`s just an ugly divorce. I mean they`ve been trading punches all week. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY LENO, NBC HOST: Hey Kev, you know the best way to get Letterman to ignore you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s that?
LENO: Marry him.
DAVID LETTERMAN, CBS HOST: Jay Leno said that this NBC "Tonight Show" mess is not his fault. It`s not his fault. And I said I know, it`s not his fault. But isn`t it funny that he always turns up at the scene of the crime?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Are you surprised how mean spirited they`ve gotten? Isn`t that below the belt when you say something about his affairs? That`s like family.
BELLAMY: Yes, I mean, everyone is throwing a little jab, what they can get away with at this point. I think Conan is actually the one who is winning out.
BEHAR: How? Well, he`s got $32 million.
BELLAMY: Because have you ever failed and got $45 million? I would love for somebody to go like, "Bill, this is the worst show ever, here`s $62 million." Fire me.
BEHAR: I agree.
BELLAMY: Fire Bill Bellamy.
BEHAR: That`s what happened...
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: They get kicked up, they sell up.
GREENLEAF: It`s amazing. That`s never happened to me.
BEHAR: Conan gets $32 million; his staff gets $12 million. We shouldn`t feel too sorry for them or the staff. They`ll get other jobs, won`t they?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: How much of the $12 million though goes to the masturbating bear? That`s my question.
GREENLEAF: How much do you think it`s worth?
BEHAR: I don`t know; a couple mil, at least.
We`re going to miss the late night drama aren`t we? Tonight is the last night really of the drama. And next week I`m going to feel so lonely.
BELLAMY: Then we start back with Jay, huh?
BREUER: That`s right.
BEHAR: Well, I like Jay. Don`t you like Jay?
BELLAMY: I like Jay, but I`m just saying, I thought it was going to be cool at first, because Conan is a good friend of mine. And I thought it was good for him because he earned that. Like he got his feet up and running on his show, then it was supposed to be the graduation moment. I think Conan will probably be somewhere else.
BEHAR: You know you guys are comics. Jay Leno`s been doing standup since about 18; he`s in his 60`s...
BELLAMY: When I was in my mama`s womb, he was funny.
BEHAR: He was always working the road.
BELLAMY: Yes.
BEHAR: ...making his bones.
BELLAMY: Yes.
BEHAR: He deserves a little slack.
Thank you very much, you guys. I`m sorry I can`t -- ran out of time.
BELLAMY: Ok.
BEHAR: If you`re in Jacksonville area, catch Bill Bellamy at the Comedy Bar, January 28th to the 30th.
Up next, "American Idol`s" Randy Jackson stops by to tell me if I`m pitchy. You heard that right, pitchy, ok? Pitchy.
BELLAMY: Pitchy.
BEHAR: I don`t go in -- pitchy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (AUDITIONING FOR "AMERICAN IDOL")
SIMON COWELL, JUDGE, "AMERICAN IDOL": I have a horrible feeling that song could be a hit.
RANDY JACKSON, JUDGE, "AMERICAN IDOL": Yes, I`m going to get my pants up. I`m going to buy some belts after this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know, funny coincidence, I performed that very same audition to get this show. Sixty-two-year-old Larry Platt is just the latest overnight sensation to spring up from one of the most popular programs in TV history, "American Idol".
And I`m joined now by one of the show`s most popular judges, Randy Jackson.
JACKSON: What`s going on, Joy. How are you?
BEHAR: It`s very nice to have you here.
This guy is kind of like the reason that people love the show. He`s kind of like the William Hung for seniors, right?
JACKSON: Yes, that`s a good way of putting it.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
JACKSON: He`s probably the reason that I love the show. You know, listen, he`s gone on to like this huge viral success. I mean, I`m just so happy for him. You know what I mean?
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: It makes me feel good. Because he came in and song -- I mean, it`s definitely not the age of what is this about.
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: And actually what he`s saying in the song is actually kind of deep in an interesting sort of way.
BEHAR: Really?
JACKSON: Well, he`s basically saying -- no, no, he`s basically saying why are all of our young kids, all the rappers walking around with their pants hanging on the ground?
BEHAR: Yes, yes and it`s a sociological song.
JACKSON: Yes.
BEHAR: But you know, let me just bring it to the age thing. Because he is 63 years old and your limit is 28, right?
JACKSON: Yes.
BEHAR: So how come he made it through?
JACKSON: I think you know, if you wait in line all day and you`re doing this for like days on end, I`m sure the producers are like, listen, we know this is not going to happen, but this guy has been waiting in line for a long time. Let`s at least put him in.
And it actually was cool for us because it breaks up our day and you already know; because you kind of get serious in the trenches, who`s going to make it, who`s not.
BEHAR: Right.
JACKSON: It was fun, then. It was really fun. I had a good time.
BEHAR: Ok, so let`s get to some of the dish about the show.
JACKSON: The dish?
BEHAR: The dish, I mean, first of all, Simon is leaving, we know he`s done now, right?
JACKSON: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: So what do you think about that, can the show make it without him?
JACKSON: Yes, I think definitely the show can go on. I think "Idol" has got more life let in it for sure and you know, I think Simon probably needed a new challenge. You know, I know he wanted a new challenge. And I think he`s excited about trying to do that.
So it`s definitely been an interesting time. Because you know, Paula left, she is no longer there.
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: And you know we now have Ellen. So it`s been kind of a little bit of a shakeup of things.
BEHAR: Paula, Paula, Paula.
JACKSON: Yes.
BEHAR: I miss Paula.
JACKSON: I miss her, too. You know, when we were doing these auditions that you are seeing now on the road and I would look down the table and I like was where`s P.A.? I call her P.A. Where`s P.A. and now what`s going on?
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: ...it`s a -- because you know, we started it together. Me and Ryan and Simon and Paula started this whole journey together. None of us knew when we started it. So that team. But it`s kind of...
BEHAR: But why didn`t she take the deal?
JACKSON: You know, I really don`t really know. I mean, I don`t know it`s her personal -- I don`t even know what was really going on and what was really proposed on all of that.
BEHAR: Maybe she felt dissed, because other people were making more. Ryan Seacrest was making more. That was just what I read. I don`t know the story.
JACKSON: You know look, money is always a thing. You`re on a show with a bunch of different...
BEHAR: Right.
JACKSON: ...people on a panel. It`s always a thing. You know what I mean? So -- but I think, listen, she is doing well. I talk to her all the time. I`m sure she`ll go on to big things. I`m sure she`ll be more than fine.
BEHAR: Yes, I`m sure.
Anyway, Simon gave a hint on Ryan Seacrest`s radio show who might replace him. Take a look.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
COWELL: Do you know the rumor that`s doing the rounds at the moment?
RYAN SEACREST, AMERICAN IDOL: Who?
COWELL: You`re going to replace me.
SEACREST: Oh, I heard this in the press that you suggested I come over and sit at the table.
COWELL: Well, you just literally jump from your stage -- on to the judging chair and that way you get an extra job.
SEACREST: Oh, thank God.
COWELL: Yes. I`m thinking of you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He`s kidding, right?
JACKSON: Yes. Listen, listen, just so you know, I`ve been going around doing my own kind of -- no, I`m just checking out seeing who could do it and who would be the right fit. I`ve got an idea. There`s a woman in New York here named Joy Behar.
BEHAR: You want me for the show?
JACKSON: Come on.
BEHAR: Well, that`s interesting.
JACKSON: Joy, you could do it.
BEHAR: I could. I could, but you have Ellen. I mean, I have, like between, let`s see, what time is it, I have like little window I could fit there. But you have Ellen, you already have a comedian.
JACKSON: Yes.
BEHAR: She`ll be good, I think.
JACKSON: No, Ellen is going to be great.
BEHAR: Ellen is going to be good.
JACKSON: Yes, she`s going to be great.
BEHAR: But thank you for even thinking of that.
JACKSON: Yes but you know, you have that sensibility. You`re quick on your feet.
BEHAR: Yes, the thing about it, though, is I`m not a music person. But neither is Ellen really. She just dances, I don`t think she`s -- she dances very well.
JACKSON: No, she is, listen -- she dances very well, but the thing about her is that -- I think, we`ve never had on the judging panel somebody that has the viewers opinions. So that person sitting at home on the sofa or whatever watching, she is going to give that, plus -- I mean, you know, she`s just really, really good TV. She`s funny, she`s interesting...
BEHAR: She is.
JACKSON: ...she loves music. And by the way, the thing is that she`s a giant fan of the show.
BEHAR: Yes, she`ll be good. I think she`ll be very good. So she`s like the every woman that`s sitting home watching...
JACKSON: Yes.
BEHAR: ...and thinking this is -- this -- I like this, I don`t like that.
JACKSON: You know, she can disagree with us, those judges don`t know what they`re talking about.
BEHAR: Right. I will miss the fights though between Paula and Simon.
JACKSON: You will?
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: Oh.
BEHAR: I enjoyed that. I will miss that. I have to tell you, it`s going to take a little adjusting.
JACKSON: I think there will probably be more fights. I think Simon probably has the knack of fighting with a lot of people.
BEHAR: He does. But he`ll be doing it on this other show. He`s got this other show to do now, right?
JACKSON: Yes. That will come on -- I don`t know when exactly it`s coming on.
BEHAR: And he says he`s taking Paula. You don`t know?
JACKSON: I don`t know, I don`t even know.
BEHAR: Look at me.
JACKSON: I don`t -- I really, I don`t. I don`t know. I don`t know. I don`t know.
BEHAR: You know.
JACKSON: He said that he was interesting in maybe Joy. Hey, come on, Joy, again.
BEHAR: You know what? You want to be my publicist?
JACKSON: Yes. I`m working for Joy.
BEHAR: You know the thing about this show is I have to tell you why I like the show very much. It`s not my demographics exactly but I still like it.
And it`s a phenomenon. Because 30 million people watch "American Idol", am I right?
JACKSON: Yes.
BEHAR: ...30 million people. That`s 10 percent of the American population, which is phenomenal, really.
JACKSON: Yes and were so lucky.
BEHAR: I don`t think anybody has come that close to that number.
JACKSON: Look, we`re so lucky and so blessed as I said to you before. When the show started, none of us...
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: ...really knew. And I mean, it`s just -- it`s taken off like unbelievably well. And we`re going into season nine. And it`s going to be dope and cool and it`s great.
BEHAR: It`s going to be dope.
JACKSON: It`s going to be dope and cool and great.
BEHAR: I like that.
JACKSON: And you know, the thing is, is that I think that it`s kind of a nurturing sort of talent show, if you will. You know what I mean.
BEHAR: When you say it`s going to be dope, though, doesn`t that mean that you like dope?
JACKSON: No. It means it`s going to be mad, cool, beyond cool, mad cool.
BEHAR: Where did they come up with dope means that you`re smoking dope or you`re a dope.
JACKSON: No.
BEHAR: I don`t get...
JACKSON: No, this is a different kind of hood vernacular. Dope means cool.
BEHAR: Like bad means good yes.
JACKSON: Yes, yes, yes.
BEHAR: I`ve got you.
And we`re going to take a break and then have more with Randy Jackson. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with "American Idol" judge Randy Jackson.
Randy let`s talk about your other show, "America`s Best Dance Crew".
JACKSON: Yes, season five starting next week.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
JACKSON: Really, really excited about that. I mean these kids are just amazing, Joy. What they do and what they do with their -- how they do the stuff with their bodies and the formations and it`s just a great show on "MTV", so we`re looking forward to season five, it`s going to be hot.
BEHAR: So you`re expanding. You have other things you`re doing.
JACKSON: Yes, you know I mean I manage artists. I manage a band called Paper Tongues out of Charlotte, North Carolina, rock band that is breaking now in the rock tone.
And you know I`ve got a bunch of other shows that I`m working on. And music supervisor and films and TV shows, and scoring.
BEHAR: Wow, you`re busy.
JACKSON: You know, I`m kind of a wild crazy workaholic guy.
BEHAR: You are. But the business is fun.
JACKSON: Yes, I don`t know. It`s fun; it`s what I love.
BEHAR: I like it.
JACKSON: If it`s music, I love it.
BEHAR: Ok we have some Twitter questions for you, all right?
JACKSON: Yes.
BEHAR: Let`s see, "When you call someone dog, are you referring to a specific breed of dog?" That`s from the ASPCA.
JACKSON: What kind of question is that? No, it`s dawg, to begin with.
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: And, no it`s really more of...
BEHAR: Another affectionate hood remark, right?
JACKSON: Yes, a hood remark. I love that. It`s a term of endearment. You know it`s like saying my boy, my girl, you know what I mean? I you know?
BEHAR: Dawg.
JACKSON: My dawg, you know? All sorts of dogs?
BEHAR: Ok. This one is kind of a -- "Why do they feel like they have to humiliate some of the less than talented kids that go on the show?"
JACKSON: I don`t think it`s humiliation at all...
BEHAR: Oh yes it is.
JACKSON: No, no...
BEHAR: Oh yes, come on Randy.
JACKSON: No, if you were bad, wouldn`t you want to know that?
BEHAR: No.
JACKSON: To save your money?
BEHAR: No, those kids -- some of them are so bad, so bad that I think that they don`t get it. And all it is, is like a stab in the heart, you know.
JACKSON: Well, we call that delusional behavior right?
BEHAR: Yes. I know.
JACKSON: But you want someone to tell you, if you`re not listening to your parents whatever, and we`ll always claim that. And it always happens, you`ll see people auditioning and they go, "Everybody says that I sound good." Nobody wants to tell you the truth. Well here is the truth mirror. You know what I mean?
BEHAR: But your producers -- come one let`s tell the truth here. Your producers find these people who are really outrageously bad.
JACKSON: No.
BEHAR: And it makes good TV in your early stages.
JACKSON: The idea is that we want a cross section everything that they see. So if we went out here on Fifth Avenue and say we have a microphone, camera, we`re from ABC, wherever, can anybody out here sing? You`re going to find some of everything. So we want to see that because you know?
BEHAR: Ok, whatever.
JACKSON: She`s not buying it, dude.
BEHAR: I`m not. I`m not.
JACKSON: She`s not buying it. It`s the truth.
BEHAR: Ok, what about this, what did you make of Adam Lambert`s sexually charged performance? Did you think it was over the line?
JACKSON: Oh, listen, it`s probably what I wouldn`t have done. But I mean every artist is left to their own interpretation of what they want to do.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
JACKSON: And now that he`s no longer on the show, dude, I mean, who would I be to say that I love Lady Gaga, what she wears. I wouldn`t wear it. But like you know, so I mean it`s his thing, you know what I mean.
So when you`re an artist like that now, you`ve got to take the bumps and bruises as people like it or don`t like it. I`m sure...
BEHAR: He`s very talented.
JACKSON: He`s amazingly talented.
BEHAR: And some people say that he didn`t win the "American Idol" because he`s gay. Do you think there`s any validity to that?
JACKSON: I don`t really think it`s that.
BEHAR: No.
JACKSON: I think he`s really, really talented. Chris who won is really, really talented. And I think he came very close to winning. It was a very close race at the end.
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: So you know, they both are going to go on to hopefully big careers. So you know...
BEHAR: It`s great to have you on the show. So thank you. And thanks for pushing me to be a judge.
JACKSON: Yes, thanks for having me, Joy is in the house.
BEHAR: Randy`s MTV show "America`s Best Dance Crew" returns January 28th and of course "American Idol" is on now. Good night everybody. Not, right now.
JACKSON: Yes, right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: 40 years ago, audiences were shocked when Anne Bancroft seduced Dustin Hoffman in a movie called The Graduate. But today an older woman hooking up with a somewhat younger man is news. Now it seems the latest trend is women dating men 20 or 30 years younger and that`s not even counting Cher. So are these new super cougars trailblazers who are challenging the old power dynamic or are they just a bunch of horny old broads filling their oaths. Joining me now is Linda Hogan, ex wife of Hulk Hogan who is now dating a much younger man. Linda, thank you for joining me.
LINDA HOGAN, EX WIFE OF HULK HOGAN: You`re welcome. Thank you.
BEHAR: Let`s take a look at you with the 21-year-old guy that you`re dating, Charlie. There are pictures from TMZ, there you are. Very nice.
HOGAN: Uh-huh.
BEHAR: A lot of people in the media have been calling you a cougar for dating him. How do you feel about the label?
HOGAN: You know what I didn`t even really know what a cougar was. I was just a little bit in the dark. I was coming out of a pretty tumultuous divorce and the way we met was just very natural on the beach. Once we made the red carpet at the Palms in Las Vegas, the word cougar came up and I was like oh, okay, I guess I`m a cougar, whatever.
BEHAR: A cougar is a predator, actually. A cougar is a predatory animal. It`s not even funny.
(CROSSTALK)
HOGAN: And you know they call the boyfriends the young bucks. So yeah, that`s true.
(LAUGHTER) BEHAR: The young bucks, well when it was the other way around with the man and the younger, he was a latch and she was a gold digger. So now all the terms are changing now so.
HOGAN: And you know what, the whole the thing is like being a gold digger, you know, I don`t know. I don`t know that whole term. I`ve been called that even throughout my divorce. It`s just so not true. I really think that just being, you know, an older woman and you come out of a divorce. I have a little bit of money. I`m just looking for love right now.
BEHAR: Oh we all are, we all are. It`s true, we are. Everyone. But you know you guys have a 30-year age difference. What is the attraction exactly?
HOGAN: I was walking down the beach at Clear Water and I saw this big, tall blond stud muffin and I was a little bit lonely. And I said, wow, I was with my son Nick actually. I hate to say but I said Nick, go check it out, is he cool? And he went over there and he said yeah, he says, it seems like he`s really nice. So we ended up talking and dating. He`s a great listener. And at the time that I met him was a time where I was going through such a traumatic time in my life with a divorce and the separation of my family. And other things and it was just a great time to meet him. I really think that God put him there for me. And at that time age, it was the last thing that was on my mind or his.
BEHAR: I tell you I would have trouble with a guy 30 years younger than me because I`m afraid he`s going to yell out mommy during sex.
(LAUGHTER)
HOGAN: Is that so wrong?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Well, I don`t care for the name mommy except when it`s a toddler next to me. Any drawbacks to -- have you found a drawback. Because you sound happy, happy, happy.
HOGAN: I am happy. And there are no drawbacks. I mean truthfully I never really planned on being single at 50 years old. I really just didn`t. I didn`t know that I would end up being divorced. I thought I would be married forever. You know, the situation came, I`m divorced, and I really didn`t know what my future held. I met Charlie and he was just like such an amazing soul mate. He`s just such a great listener. Hey came --
BEHAR: But you know, Linda, that when -- you`re 60 now?
HOGAN: Excuse me? I`m going to have Hulk Hogan beat your butt.
BEHAR: I`m sorry, I`m sorry I didn`t hear the number before and I can`t see you from this distance frankly.
HOGAN: Oh okay, I`m 50.
BEHAR: Oh so she`s a - no she`s not a jaguar, how old are you?
HOGAN: 50.
BEHAR: And he`s how old? 20?
HOGAN: 21.
BEHAR: Okay, so there`s a 30-year difference. When you`re 70, it gets a little shaky, don`t you think?
HOGAN: Well that`s the weird thing. If he doesn`t mind pushing me around in the wheelchair, okay, fine. But on the other hand, on a reality level, I look at it and I think you know I am the older person in the relationship. And he does have a beautiful family that he came from. You know and I have two children.
BEHAR: Yes.
HOGAN: And I`m concerned about what does everybody think, it is an issue. I think right now we`re just sort of dating and I just came out of a rough divorce.
BEHAR: Yes.
HOGAN: And a lot of different legal stuff. And you know, he`s young. He has time. And so I think that there`s not really a real pressure on us right now to make a decision.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
HOGAN: But in the next few years, I feel like, you know, God will chart our course and that will be the way it goes.
BEHAR: You know what they say like they say in the 12-step program, one step at a time. So this is happening now, enjoy yourself.
HOGAN: Exactly, Joy.
BEHAR: Let me bring in my panel.
HOGAN: Okay.
BEHAR: I have Steve Ward, author of "Crash Course In Love", and host of the VH1 show "Tough Love." and Linda Franklin, author of "Don`t Ever Call Me Ma`am: The Real Cougar Woman Handbook." I love that. So Steve, you`re the dating expert.
STEVE WARD, AUTHOR OF CRASH COURSE IN LOVE: Uh huh.
BEHAR: How do you think this is going to work out?
WARD: I don`t think it`s going to work out long-term, no offense, Linda. Sounds like you`re having a great time.
BEHAR: She certainly is.
WARD: I don`t know - I don`t know what it`s like to have three kids, let alone two, but I`d imagine it`s probably very similar in terms of maturity level and personality.
HOGAN: No, it`s not. I hate to disagree with you, but it is not.
BEHAR: How is it different? How is it different?
WARD: How is it different? He`s just the way he was raised and the responsibility level is just amazing. I don`t know, he`s a man`s man.
WARD: So his parents raised him better than you raised your kids, is that what you are saying?
HOGAN: I`m sorry, I didn`t hear you?
WARD: Are you saying that his parents raised him better than you raised your kids? HOGAN: No, I`m not saying that at all. You`re saying that.
WARD: Well that`s what it implies. I saw the photo, I would think that he was your son. You guys look strikingly similar.
BEHAR: Yes, no but that`s, you know, she`s having a good time with him. She must have - she had a rough time, she just told you.
WARD: Understandable.
BEHAR: She`s happy now, you know.
WARD: Good for her.
BEHAR: Linda, get into this now. There`s a trend in Hollywood that`s bigger and bigger age brackets. Susan Sarandon -
HOGAN: Right.
BEHAR: Allegedly, I love Susan, I know her, she`s a great gal. She hasn`t really said this is true but there`s a rumor that she`s 63 and her guy is 31.
HOGAN: Yes.
BEHAR: Now if you`re going to be 31 and go for an older woman, Susan is your girl. And then there`s director Taylor Wood, who is 42 who got his girlfriend, a 19-year-old girlfriend pregnant. Now what`s going on?
LINDA FRANKLIN, AUTHOR, "DON`T EVER CALL ME MA`AM": Listen, I don`t know. I think women are feeling their power and they`re saying if it`s okay for the men then it`s okay for us.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
FRANKLIN: And they`re not worried so much about now what other people are saying. They`re saying if this makes me happy and if it works for both of us, let`s do it.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
FRANKLIN: And as you said, take one step at a time.
BEHAR: What`s the appeal, though, to these extremely younger men?
FRANKLIN: Well you know there are extremes. I have women in my community that are with guys 20 years younger and I have women with guys 10 years younger. So personally I could not see myself with a guy 30 years younger but it`s a matter of taste. One thing that all of the women say is when they start these relationships, age doesn`t factor in. They just need someone. They have a connection. And as they move along, the age thing comes up, but it`s not there at the beginning.
HOGAN: Okay. Excuse me, if I may say something.
BEHAR: Go ahead Linda.
HOGAN: You know, it`s a double standard, okay? When I was younger, I dated older guys. And now that I`m older, I`m dating a younger guy. You know why doesn`t anybody think that it`s so bad that, you know, no offense, my ex, is dating somebody that`s 23 years younger than him.
BEHAR: Correct, Hulk Hogan, exactly.
FRANKLIN: That`s exactly right, the double standard is alive and well and that`s something I`m trying to fight in my community, it`s just not fair.
BEHAR: He was on, he was on, Hulk was on the show. Can we show the tape of Hulk when he was on the show with me? Because he does mention it. There it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HULK HOGAN: The world`s champion, everybody looks up to you. And then all of a sudden all your friends and your family and everybody there is telling you that there`s a young kid driving your cars and your motorcycles and your boats and sleeping in bed with your wife, it does something to you when you`re a man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Okay. See? He doesn`t like it, right, Linda?
HOGAN: Okay, I know he`s crushed and I am too. It`s the end of our family relationship and it`s a sad moment. It`s a sad time in our lives. But I still love him. I learned a lot from being married to him. He was a wonderful dad. A wonderful father. And you know something? I`m don`t - I`m really not bitter. I have to tell you, I --
BEHAR: No, of course not, you`re having great sex, right now. Why would you be bitter either - who would be bitter?
(CROSSTALK)
WARD: It is what it is?
HOGAN: I walked the red carpet and I went to so many wrestling matches you can`t even count. I mean really, we built that business together and I support him in whatever he does. I think he`s with TNA now, so everybody watch TNA. He`s really an amazing guy. I don`t have any bitterness towards him. And I don`t like what the tabloids say.
WARD: I don`t have any problem with Linda dating a younger guy and having a lot of funnel.
BEHAR: You sound a little judgmental.
WARD: No, I think it`s great, have fun, have a good time and everything. But if you think he`s going to stay there, you know, for the next 10, 15, 20 years, I think you`re just diluting yourself. You`re going to set yourself up for a lot of disappointment when he decides he wants to have kids or he wants to start a family.
HOGAN: I don`t agree.
BEHAR: You don`t agree with that Linda let`s see?
(CROSSTALK)
FRANKLIN: No, I don`t agree with that because as I have said I have so many women in my community and they`re married to them for 10, 15 years and -
WARD: And I`m sure they`re very successful.
FRANKLIN: They`re very happy.
WARD: They take very good care of these men.
FRANKLIN: Well that`s not true, in a lot of it, it`s a 50-50 proposition.
BEHAR: I wonder if he would say the same thing if it`s a 30-year gap between a man and a woman which happens constantly.
WARD: Oh I completely agree.
BEHAR: Does the name Woody Allen ring a bell?
WARD: And I`m not - you know what I`m telling you that I don`t think that those relationships are going to be healthier either. But they do have their -
BEHAR: Why? Woody has been married to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for a long time now.
WARD: Well that`s what I`m saying they have more likelihood to last longer, because at the end of the day --
BEHAR: Why?
WARD: Well men have more virility.
BEHAR: Oh really?
WARD: They can -
(CROSSTALK)
HOGAN: That`s not what we`ve been hearing. Can I just say one thing?
WARD: Look at Mel Gibson -
(CROSSTALK)
WARD: He`s almost 60 years old, I mean men have that right to be able to pro create until the day they die.
BEHAR: They have that right? You know I heard that the sperm of an older man --
(CROSSTALK)
HOGAN: It`s not just about the sex.
(CROSSTALK)
WARD: If you have a child as a woman in her 40s, you run the risk of birth defects and you know that`s something that a lot of men aren`t going to want to take a chance on.
BEHAR: Okay Linda, what did you want to tell him?
HOGAN: What I want to say is that it`s not about the sex, it`s about a lifestyle. And that when you are --
WARD: It`s not about the sex?
HOGAN: When you are with somebody so long that they are the main dude and they`re earning the money, you take the back seat. Now I was the support system to that. I mean I was like miss energy. You know I mean I could like take Brook to the recording studio, do the car pool, and get the homework done. I did the whole mom, married wife thing with a celebrity. It was a lot of work. But now in my life, I`m looking at it like, hey, I`m in control. I have a great guy.
BEHAR: Listen, we`re happy for Linda. Aren`t we happy for Linda?
FRANKLIN: We are happy -
WARD: We are very happy for her.
FRANKLIN: One day at a time.
BEHAR: One day at a time, okay thanks, everybody. We`ll be back in a minute. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: This week was a Barbie doll nightmare. Skeletal actresses down the red carpet at the Golden Globes. Then "People" magazine ran a story about Heidi Montag`s 10 plastic surgeries. Is she planning to have one for every year she`s alive. If she lives to be 90, she`ll look like a hand puppet. And then there`s the octomom denying she had surgery but looking flawless after giving birth to the entire graduating class of 2023. Listen, women used to start worrying about their bodies a little before bathing suit season. Now it seems we have to start worrying a little before our second birthdays. Joining me to discuss these stories and how crazy people are making us crazier about how we look are actress Marissa Jaret Winokur, plus size model, Emme, the chair ambassador for the national eating disorders association and founder of emmestyle.com and Janice Min, whose been here before, former editor and chief of "US" weekly. Hello, ladies.
Hello Joy.
BEHAR: Are they trying to drive us crazy, is that what this is about? They`re just trying to kill women?
EMME, NATIONAL EATING DISORDER ASSOCIATION: There`s so many mixed messages being sent out with saying that octomom lost how many -- 100 something odd pounds without surgery. I mean that -- I`m sorry I --
BEHAR: She was 270 and now she`s 120. Okay?
EMME: I`m picking up my jaw --
BEHAR: We have a picture right? It was almost a year ago that octomom gave birth to her eight little ones and how -
EMME: That`s not healthy.
BEHAR: And how is she celebrating? By bearing her bikini body in "Star" magazine, look. There she is, look her in front of you --
EMME: I see, I see - is that healthy? No, it`s horrendously healthy, it`s a horrible, horrible message to get out there. It really is.
JANICE MIN, FORMER EDITOR AND CIEF, US WEEKLY: Also.
BEHAR: Go ahead Janice.
MIN: She has 14 kids, who is working on their body this past year?
EMME: I don`t even have time.
MIN: Exactly, I mean who can even --
BEHAR: She works out in the middle of the night she says.
MIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Between breastfeedings I guess.
(LAUGHTER)
MIN: Yes, wait I want to share though when I was at "US weekly" in June or July, we, you know octomom, because of her rep, of course she has a publicist, they told us octomom was going away for a little operation, a little, she had some female plumbing issues that had to get taken care of. So we you know, that was all that was discussed. But I mean, I find it very coincidental that back then, a few months later, tada here she is suddenly very thin.
BEHAR: I know but look at these pictures from TMZ from when she was pregnant with her octuplets. See that?
MIN: I mean we all saw Kate Gosselin.
BEHAR: Oh my God, she`s a balloon, holy Christmas. She says she`s never had any plastic surgery. Do you believe her?
MARISSA JAREET WINOKUR, ACTRESS: Well I actually, the comment about her saying she`s working out at night, I`m a new mom, I have a child that`s a year and a half old and I can barely work out, you know, five minutes a day. I`m trying really hard so I can`t imagine with 8 children actually --
EMME: 14. 14, Can you imagine?
WINOKUR: Oh yeah, 14.
EMME: Right.
WINOKUR: But 8 newborns, that`s like 8 1-year-olds. How can anybody be working out unless you have 10 people helping you and you`re at a ranch, like. I actually had to go away - I went away to a fitness camp so that I could lose weight and I had to leave my son for three weeks. So I can tell you, I don`t know about she`s doing it late at night on her own.
BEHAR: What if she said she wanted to do this, whatever she did naturally. But you know she had invitro to have all these kids.
EMME: Well, I don`t care.
BEHAR: So there`s a little bit of a discrepancy there.
MIN: Also, also look at her face. This is someone who probably had some work done on her face to look a little bit maybe like Angelina Jolie but who has steadfastly denied that she ever had work done. She says that her face changed when she got pregnant.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: It`s because she shot it up with collagen.
MIN: Exactly.
BEHAR: And she had her nose done and whatever else.
EMME: We`re going to find out that she has a company that`s backing her for a new DVD, a new book, and what message is that sending?
BEHAR: Well it doesn`t do a great message, I mean if you`re at home and you`ve had a baby and you`re looking at pictures like this, she`s not the first one to do this. It`s really intimidating to women.
MIN: Well I think the problem is -
BEHAR: Well yes I agree.
MIN: 80 percent of women know that something is up here, that she probably had surgery. But 20 percent of women, in the back of your mind, you still wonder maybe there is some secret I`m not aware of. Maybe I should try a little harder, and I think that`s the message --
BEHAR: Okay let`s talk about Heidi Montag. Now this one has had ten plastic surgery procedures in one - in one day. So is she addicted? She says I`m not. She says I`m not because if I was addicted, I would have ten days worth. I did it all in one day, so I`m not addicted.
EMME: This is a real issue. And some people can start with one. I mean she started out as a beautiful, young lady. And then I think we`re going to see a lot of reality show people go through this perfection driven to find perfection where we all know there is no perfection out there, we just have to make what we have the best it can be. It`s sad to see that she is sending yet another message out to young America, as well as American women, that she started out as beautiful and she doesn`t think that that`s right. So she`s yet going to get put in bigger boobs, eye draws, when you don`t even need it.
BEHAR: The picture inside that magazine, she looks like she was beaten up by Mike Tyson. I mean you should see the pictures. This is not pretty -- what happens. It`s not like overnight, you suddenly, you know, Siegfried and Roy come in and change your whole look.
EMME: That`s right.
MIN: I think you know -
BEHAR: Am I plastic surgeons? What am I talking about?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Sorry go ahead.
MIN: I know Heidi, I`ve met Heidi many, many times and she is a nice, nice young lady.
BEHAR: Yes, she is a nice girl.
MIN: You know she professes to have this great relationship with God, like takes - you know thinks she is good, very earnest.
BEHAR: If she loves God so much.
MIN: Well God gave her that body. I know.
BEHAR: The other thing -- there is always these confusing thoughts that people are having.
MIN: Instead of an addiction to plastic surgery, I think she is addicted to attention. Would she go through this if she weren`t getting a magazine cover?
EMME: Something going on deeper, obviously there is something going on that`s not just on the surface.
BEHAR: Right, stay right there when we come back, I want to talk about the Golden Globes, so don`t go away. And the bodies.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel. Okay, a "New York Times" blog written by Andy Port says that some of the ladies who showed up at the Golden Globes had put on a little weight and sported sexier curves. Was this person watching the same telecast I was? They looked anorexic, a lot of them still look anorexic to me.
MIN: right. I think we have -- we are suffering from national body dysmorphia right now. We live in an age of so much media and so much competition in Hollywood that they are having their own competition out there about who can be thinner, who can be more perfect and we, in turn, our eye adjusts. And I think obviously, these women go to the Golden Globes to show off their amazing bodies, they are not wearing burqas on the red carpet. And I think it`s okay to comment on how their bodies look but I do think it is a reflection of the obsession with it.
BEHAR: Let me talk to Marissa out there, because she said -- this writer said that these women had a womanly roundness. Now, if that`s womanly roundness, I`m ready to put a gun to my head.
WINOKUR: I know. I`m usually called womanly roundless, oh, no Courteney Cox is going to take my roles.
EMME: Don`t you think it`s unfair, Marissa that Courteney Cox and who else--
WINOKUR: Yeah it is.
EMME: Who else? Jennifer Aniston?
WINOKUR: Yeah.
BEHAR: But I mean is it driving them further into their anorexic selves or do you think they are naturally --
MIN: They are just taking a stand. Maybe they are taking a stand.
EMME: Go ahead Marissa, go ahead.
WINOKUR: Well, no, I just think a lot of people say oh, who care what is bloggers say and who cares what the internet is saying or a media person says but this is a perfect example of Heidi said that people would circle her chin and say, oh I look like Jay Leno and there she was like so I got my chin done. So, I don`t think people realize what their words are really doing to actresses to, us. I mean it really -- you think that I don`t read what people say, like we read it, we see it and I think people need to kind of think about what they are saying, not just sit at home behind a computer.
BEHAR: Is it too harsh of me to say that beauty editors at "Vogue" and those magazines are war criminals? Do you thank you is too harsh?
EMME: I think we need to take responsibility around our conference room tables each time that an editor meeting is taking place or any kind of casting situation. We really need to take responsibility and remember, we are mothers, we are cousins, we are nephews, we are nieces of children. And whenever we send out a message of ultra, ultrathin image as the only image, you know, to attain or that the ideal is, it`s prepubescent. We already grew up away from that, so, if you show more diversity and not call attention to it and just celebrate what they are wearing and talk about what they are doing for their career.
BEHAR: Yes.
EMME: it would give us all a great, great sigh of relief, as well as, you know, we will stop brain washing ourselves.
BEHAR: We are brain washed. I know but it`s mostly women on our case, it`s not the men.
EMME: Listen, it is across-the-board, people are looking after their jobs, the people at the big magazines.
BEHAR: But I mean, in general, I think that men do like a little flesh on a woman.
EMME: Oh, yes, absolutely.
MIN: This is like female -- sit around and trash other women`s bodies.
BEHAR: Trash other women`s bodies.
MIN: You know, and also, I think we are also -- remember are, we are in the peak of diet season, like lot of food recrimination going on right now and I think that the Golden Globes is almost this release for a lot of women, like, ha, off trainer and you are paid to be thin and, you know what --
BEHAR: And there is a war going on between Weight Watchers and Jenny Craig right now, female war, you know? I it is like the Olsen twins fighting. Thanks to my panel for joining me tonight -
Thanks Joy.
BEHAR: And thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
