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Edwards Aide Tells All; Is It Time to End `Don`t Ask, Don`t Tell?`
Aired February 03, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight, on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, if Hollywood ever makes a movie about the John Edwards` saga, I think they should just call it the "Titanic" and get it over with. Author and former Edwards aide Andrew Young joins me in the studio.
Then Mel Gibson calls a TV interviewer an A-hole. I`m no expert but I don`t think that`s even a compliment in Aramaic.
And finally it looks like gays also be allowed to join the military and even better, soldiers will now be allowed to join the cast of "Glee".
All this and more starts now.
Well, John Edwards` marriage is over, his career is dead and his reputation is shot. Things are so bad he didn`t even save money switching to Geico.
Now a new report says Elizabeth Edwards is telling friends that John Edwards hit her during a horrific marriage-ending fight. Ok, that report came from "The National Enquirer". But no one knows this story better than they do -- just saying. So does it ring true?
Joining me is former Edwards` aide and author of the new book "The Politician" Andrew Young. Hi Andrew. We saw each other this morning on "The View" so we can continue that conversation.
ANDREW YOUNG, FORMER JOHN EDWARDS AIDE: I`m honored to be here. Thank you.
BEHAR: Thanks for doing this.
You know, this was sort of a shocking story to see. I mean in your book, it sounds like he was afraid of her and now she`s saying he hit her. What do you think?
YOUNG: I found that hard to believe. The John Edwards I knew, you know, had some cold and calculating aspects to him, but I have to say he was one of the best fathers I`ve ever seen. And I never saw a hostile bone in his body.
BEHAR: Really?
YOUNG: Yes. So I saw a temper, but I never saw anything hostile in any way, fashion or form.
BEHAR: Towards anybody?
YOUNG: Towards anybody.
BEHAR: Even though you say -- I think it was 20/20 -- you said that you were frightened at some point to stay in your house by yourself because you thought someone was going to come and -- who were you thinking of?
YOUNG: We were stuck between a couple of billionaires and the trial lawyer lobby who was incredibly powerful. And, you know, when you`re at the point we are -- we`re a normal family -- living or completely cut off from our family and friends, it`s easy to take one of those John Grisham novels and put it in your head and think, "Hey somebody powerful can come and do something to us."
BEHAR: I guess. Well, you can get a little paranoid.
YOUNG: Absolutely, yes.
BEHAR: You know -- after her cancer came back, Elizabeth, I was reading a lot of stuff about you. Edwards` camp said that -- had this revelation to use the cancer for political gain. It looked as though Elizabeth was in on that. I mean Elizabeth denies that.
YOUNG: Of course.
BEHAR: But what do you say? What happened? How did that come about?
YOUNG: Well, I would challenge anybody to go back and look at the videotapes starting from the press conference where they walk out and, you know, very courageously say this campaign will go on because it`s for the good of all people and no matter what, we must soldier on. But you`re left from the impression from that press conference that she`s going to die any moment. It`s something very soon and imminent and almost like, "Vote for my husband because of these cause. I`m not going to be there but vote for my husband."
BEHAR: I remember that.
YOUNG: And in every, every speech and press conference and everything else from that point forward, he would close with a remark about her condition and cancer-wise and about how much he loved her.
BEHAR: In public?
YOUNG: At every event. And I just -- it`s -- I don`t see how anybody can deny that that was political in some fashion.
BEHAR: Absolutely.
Now let`s talk about this sex tape. We mentioned it today on "The View" and I believe Barbara sort of pressed you and said why didn`t you just turn it over and you said something about an injunction.
I think what she was driving at and what I`m driving at here is you knew that you could use that tape, so why not just throw it away or give it away. Why did you keep -- what are you planning with that tape, if anything?
YOUNG: Going back to the first part of what we talked about, at this point we were two normal people that had no clout. We were up against some people that have immense resources.
The Edwards themselves are worth $50 million or $60 million; Fred Baron, a billion dollars. Nobody knew who we were and or had any reason to have any credibility, to believe that we were credible whatsoever.
On top of that, the Edwards had, and it says in the book "Game Change" that as early as December 2006, Elizabeth had ordered paid campaign staff to do (INAUDIBLE) research on me.
BEHAR: Ok. So how does that lead me to the sex tape?
YOUNG: At least the sex tape -- the sex tape was something that collaborates what we were saying.
BEHAR: Ok. That he was having this affair with Rielle?
YOUNG: That he was having this affair with a woman. And it was something that collaborate it.
Now, what`s changed since then -- you know, we had numerous instances where we could have sold it. We didn`t because we couldn`t live with it. It was awful enough watching it once.
BEHAR: Do you hold it for potential leverage along the line here in the future?
YOUNG: Well, I mean, what`s happened now is the grand jury, the prosecutor is handling the grand jury investigation has subpoenaed it. They have a copy of it and I`ve been instructed to keep my copy in a safety deposit box.
BEHAR: I think it`s weird that she left it, frankly. I mean from a Freudian point of view, why would she leave that? Why wouldn`t she destroy that tape?
YOUNG: I think it goes beyond bizarre. You have to realize she lived initially in a house that we were renting and our family was living in. The first two weeks she lived with us in that house. When she moved out of there into a rental house that we got for her she left this sex tape and these webisodes that was a big source of the campaign. She left all of those in this box full of trash right outside of the room that she stayed in.
The thing about this, we leave middle of December and go on the run. She doesn`t mention -- I would think that would be the first thing you would pack.
BEHAR: Yes, I would too, unless she wants someone to find it.
YOUNG: Exactly.
BEHAR: Which you did. Her relationship with you is kind of weird, I think. I was reading she confided in you about so many details, even about the condition of her vagina. That is so strange. What is up with that and what is the condition of her vagina? Now that you know.
YOUNG: I`m proud to say I have no -- I would always say TMI, TMI -- too much information.
BEHAR: Yes, but what would provoke that? Why didn`t she carry it away?
YOUNG: As you can see from the various reports about Rielle, she`s a -- she`s from a different -- you know, she`s one of these new age spiritualists, very open about sexuality...
BEHAR: She saw auras.
YOUNG: Yes -- she`s open sexuality. She`s open about the whole life experience.
And the thing that was -- that was odd, but the thing that was more odd was the senator, once he had me as a complete and trusted confidant, he knew he had to rely on me -- he didn`t have any true friends and he opened up to me about everything.
BEHAR: Well, you were a -- you covered for him quite a bit. He wanted you to say that you were the baby`s daddy, and you covered up against Elizabeth, not telling Elizabeth about Rielle and all that stuff, basically you did.
What I`m curious about you, because you`re...
YOUNG: Why I was so stupid?
BEHAR: I`m wondering about you, because you overheard him and Rielle one night sharing wine, watching rain -- I don`t know why you were there -- but the two of them were in a romantic mood. And he said allegedly, according to you, quote, "Once Elizabeth is gone, this is the way it will be."
YOUNG: "This is the way it should be."
BEHAR: "This is the way it should be," meaning that with the wife out of the way and dead and buried, he can now resume this relationship with Rielle. At that point -- I presume that you were raised as a Christian?
YOUNG: I was. My father was a minister.
BEHAR: Did you not say, my God, we`re all going to hell at this moment?
YOUNG: Yes, but again, it`s something you have to put in context. I had been working, you know, 17 hours a day -- 17-hour days for seven days a week for I believe at that point seven or eight years. And we were coming up on what we believed might be a successful presidential election.
BEHAR: That`s where the stupidity comes in, Andrew, with all due respect.
YOUNG: I agree.
BEHAR: That you thought you could get away with this after Clinton, after Kennedy, after the liaisons that the ...
YOUNG: Somebody asked me the other day, name one politician that has gotten away with something like this. I said, "If they got away with it, how would you know?" I mean I think that the ones that we find out about...
BEHAR: That`s true. But they do get caught.
YOUNG: A number of them did, but you would be foolish to think that an equal number of them do get away with it. With the money and the power and the resources these guys have a sense of entitlement and Edwards obviously had gotten away with it. You would be foolish to think this was a one-time thing. He had been getting away with this for a long time.
That night, you`re right, it was completely appalling. But by this far in, finally after all those years I was making very good money.
I was his right hand man. I had three kids to support. I had a wife to support.
BEHAR: I understand you did it for the money. But I think the book is for the money is, too.
YOUNG: Well, I mean you know, this thing isn`t just for the money. It`s one of those things that what me and some of his close friends that did know about it, we hoped we were like John is too smart for this. He`s got to wake up and...
BEHAR: Well, he was in lust.
YOUNG: I think he...
BEHAR: And delusion and narcissistic disorder is a very strong motivation to behave badly.
YOUNG: But I truly believe he loved and loves Rielle.
BEHAR: Somebody said to asked him -- one of my friends said to ask you when did you say, "I`m going to start taking notes on this because I have to protect myself and write this book." At what point exactly?
YOUNG: I wish I could claim that I was that smart. Verizon is one of the few carriers that -- doesn`t automatically erase your voice mails and some of the voice mails -- there were a ton of them that were lost and there is this ton that I didn`t write about in the book probably 40, 50 percent of the book that I did not put in there.
BEHAR: So you have even more stuff?
YOUNG: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: A sequel to this book.
YOUNG: Sure.
BEHAR: "The Politician Part Two".
YOUNG: Sure. But there -- there`s a ton of material that I could -- like I didn`t put there in one of the book "Game Change," they talk about the health care phone call where Elizabeth calls in...
BEHAR: Yes.
YOUNG: ...and screams about her not having health care and her tearing her blouse off at the airport. I didn`t put that in this book because I couldn`t prove it.
BEHAR: You couldn`t prove it?
YOUNG: ...in my book...
BEHAR: Everything in here you feel you can prove?
YOUNG: It`s when -- people say I`m critical of Elizabeth, but where I am it`s her voice...
BEHAR: Yes.
YOUNG: ...speaking.
BEHAR: Yes.
I`m sorry, this was so short because I have 20 million more questions but you`re tired anyway, I guess. So, remind me not to use Verizon anymore.
Thank you, Andrew.
We`re not done dishing about slimy politicians. You won`t believe what Governor Mark Sanford`s wife is saying about her marriage, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: John Edwards isn`t the only story coming out of Washington. Yesterday, top military officials spent the day telling the Senate Arms Services Committee that it`s time to end "don`t ask, don`t tell" and they spent the night celebrating at the Ramrod.
Joining me to dish on all of this and more are Susie Essman, comedian and author of "What would Susie Say"; and Sam Seder, media commentator and co-author of "FUBAR, America`s Right-Wing Nightmare"; and Melissa Rivers, author of "Red Carpet Ready: Secrets for making the most of any moment you`re in the Spotlight".
Ok, first of all, let me just say that before Andrew left, Andrew Young left, one of our producers said to him, how was the sex tape? We have some perverts around here. And he said, "How was the sex tape" and he said it was disgusting and horrible. Just FYI, I`m just telling you.
SUSIE ESSMAN, COMEDIAN: What I find interesting is that you`re talking about gays in the military and they know nothing about Rielle`s vagina.
BEHAR: No, that`s true. And yet we can make the jump.
MELISSA RIVERS, AUTHOR, "RED CARPET READY": I just can`t wait for next Halloween when everyone is going to be at Rielle`s vagina. That`s going to be the big Halloween costume in West Hollywood.
BEHAR: I love it.
RIVERS: You know it.
BEHAR: Yes.
SAM SEDER, "FUBAR: AMERICA`S RIGHT-WING NIGHTMARE": Are there non- disgusting sex tapes? I mean, are there high-quality, semi pro...
RIVER: Well, the prettier the people, you know, the prettier the people...
ESSMAN: Yes.
RIVER: ...the better the sex tape.
BEHAR: Ok, let`s move on to Jenny Sanford because this is an interesting thing, too. You know who she is...
ESSMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: ...Mark Sanford`s wife, the guy who went on the Appalachian trail but he was really in Argentina, something like that. Ok, he dropped -- when he married her years ago, he dropped the word faithful from the vows and she went along with that.
ESSMAN: Which she knew ahead of time.
BEHAR: Yes, he asked her if she could do it.
ESSMAN: Ding, ding, ding, ding. Yes, yes.
BEHAR: She said, "We were very young, we were in love even though it bothered me to some extent." What do you make of a woman who will say ok, you don`t have to say you`re faithful from the get-go?
RIVERS: When you read the whole article that this comes from, this whole interview that`s going to be on tomorrow night, there`s so many thing that make you go, seriously? Why did you stay in this long? At which point didn`t you figure out this guy is a piece of, you know...
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
RIVERS: ...and leave.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: The duty head. Go ahead Sam.
SEDER: ...but I mean, at the time, she was an idiot.
BEHAR: Yes.
SEDER: I mean, I don`t think there`s any other way to put it.
ESSMAN: By the end of high school...
SEDER: And that should be -- that should be a big red flag.
RIVERS: By the end of high school, most women know when a guy is a jerk.
ESSMAN: But I find it hard to feel sorry for her and I find it hard to feel sorry in certain ways for Elizabeth living in her -- what is it -- 25,000 square foot house.
BEHAR: Yes.
RIVERS: Yes.
ESSMAN: It`s a (INAUDIBLE) that they make up...
BEHAR: Yes.
ESSMAN: They make an arrangement, these women. Last night I was at the middle school production of my nephew of "The Music Man"...
BEHAR: Oh yes.
ESSMAN: ...and the point of "The Music Man" of this 12-year-olds doing it was that people want to believe what they want to believe.
BEHAR: Right.
ESSMAN: And the kids are playing the coronets and they sound like crap and they want to believe that they`re fabulous. And that`s what these women did, they bought into it. And they were -- they were duplicitous...
BEHAR: Yes.
ESSMAN: ...with the guys.
BEHAR: I think Jenny even played an instrument.
ESSMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: But just to say something for her, she is the one who did leave him. She -- the Spitzer wife is still there.
ESSMAN: As opposed to Silda.
SEDER: Yes.
BEHAR: ...Mrs. Edwards took a long time for her to get out.
ESSMAN: That`s right.
BEHAR: Jenny Sanford, who`s coming on the show soon, I`m going to ask her some more of this, she got out of it.
ESSMAN: Living in her beach house.
BEHAR: And you know she was young when they got married.
SEDER: She has less to complain about...
BEHAR: Yes.
SEDER: ...because he basically said like well, I`m putting in our vow, I am going to cheat on you.
BEHAR: Yes.
ESSMAN: Yes.
SEDER: So...
RIVERS: But he`s also like, she got out, yes. And now she did because there is a book in it. You know that my own thing is you can sell the story now and now it`s interesting because he disappeared and you know this. Why were you sticking around...
BEHAR: Well, it shouldn`t be a total loss you know.
RIVERS: And you know what a good point.
BEHAR: But let`s...
RIVERS: The girl has to protect here future.
BEHAR: Yes.
ESSMAN: What if they took out different vows? Like, what if he said, all right, in health but not sickness. I`m not saying sickness, that I refuse to do.
BEHAR: I would go along...
RIVERS: I would cut obey.
ESSMAN: Obey well, but that makes sense.
BEHAR: Yes, everybody...
RIVERS: And worse, I`m not really like a poster child who would (INAUDIBLE).
SEDER: I asked to put in obey twice.
RIVERS: You did it twice, that`s because you want to make your wife happy.
SEDER: Right.
ESSMAN: I put in sit, heel.
BEHAR: Ok another sex news, this is sort of sexual, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs told the Senate Armed Services Committee he`s A-OK with gays serving in the military. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADMIRAL MIKE MULLEN, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Speaking for myself and myself only, it is my personal belief that allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly would be the right thing to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok, even Colin Powell now, who was for "don`t ask, don`t tell" is now saying he`s fine with the repealing of it.
ESSMAN: But Joy, I have to correct you on something.
BEHAR: Why what did I say?
ESSMAN: The reality is it`s not about sex...
BEHAR: No, I know.
ESSMAN: ... which is really...
BEHAR: That was a joke.
ESSMAN: ...but I know, but that`s the whole point that anti -- people who want to keep "don`t ask, don`t tell"...
BEHAR: Right.
ESSMAN: ...or keep gays out of military, make it about sex. It is not about sex.
BEHAR: Well, sexual orientation.
ESSMAN: Sexual orientation, exactly.
BEHAR: That`s what I meant.
SEDER: And he does have a sex tape.
ESSMAN: Yes.
SEDER: ...but honestly, the point of the military supporting this now...
BEHAR: Yes.
SEDER: ...is the big difference from 1993. Because now there is no way for the conservatives who are arguing against this to leverage what the military says.
And the most despicable thing about this is what John McCain is doing. John McCain said prior to the election that if he won as president he would go to the military and ask them what they want to do and he would follow their recommendations.
BEHAR: Yes.
SEDER: And now because he`s running against J.D. Hayworth, who was a lunatic right-winger he`s putting on this whole show.
BEHAR: Flip-flopping.
SEDER: Yes, of course.
BEHAR: Flip-flop.
RIVERS: I really think -- I`m not sure if this is going to be a good thing or bad thing. My theory is that`s going to force them back into the close. But the truth is they`re trying to make over the image of the military and no one rocks a uniform with metal and stuff like a gay man.
BEHAR: That`s true.
RIVERS: You know, they just want to look so much better. That`s the look.
BEHAR: The Brits and the Israelis, those are some tough Jews in Israel, they allow it. I mean, what is the American -- why are we so scared of it all these years?
ESSMAN: Well, homophobia runs extremely deep. I mean it`s...
BEHAR: It doesn`t run in Britain? It`s allowed in Britain.
SEDER: It`s the nature of our politics.
(CROSSTALK)
SEDER: You see the Republican Party has used this as an electoral strategy and John McCain is a perfect example of that. This is the way that he`s going to run this race against J.D. Hayworth. He`s going to get out in front, make a show about gays in the military a completely ridiculous issue and he`s going to do this to win his seat.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Ok, everybody. Stay put.
Mark your calendars because next Tuesday I`ll sit down with Jenny Sanford to get more of her take on Mark, (INAUDIBLE). But stay tuned because we`re going to talk about Mel Gibson our favorite anti-Semite.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel.
Here`s a shocker, Mel Gibson, who is promoting his new movie, "Edge of Darkness" called a reporter by a rather ungentlemanly epithet when asked about his anti-Semitic drunken outburst. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEL GIBSON, ACTOR: That`s almost four years ago, dude. I`ve moved on, you haven`t.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks a lot for joining us, Mel. Take care.
GIBSON: Bye-bye. (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. Who here is shocked by the outburst?
ESSMAN: You know what I love? I love how he -- I watched the whole clip. He was like, dude, move on. Dude, it`s so yesterday. Move on dude. What is he, 12?
RIVERS: Here`s the thing. It happened first in L.A. with Sam Rubin. And Sam said to him, you know, how are we going to deal with this? And he kept saying I allegedly said these things...
BEHAR: No, he said it.
RIVERS: And Sam kept saying -- trying to make him think he was joking and he wasn`t. So this is not number one on this, this is number two with him. It`s like own it and then we can all get past it.
BEHAR: Well, he would like us to get past it.
RIVERS: This is something -- you allegedly said it.
BEHAR: Should we move on? Has he apologized enough at this point?
(CROSSTALK)
SEDER: He`s apologized enough. But the problem is, in that same conversation with Rubin, he said do you have a dog in this fight? I mean, it`s still going on for him. That`s the thing. In his mind, he`s not articulating it in the same way.
RIVERS: And he kept saying, "I allegedly said these things."
SEDER: But it`s still going on. The Jews are after him and frankly let`s look what`s happening here.
BEHAR: What`s happening here?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I don`t expect you three to be sympathetic to him but...
ESSMAN: When you say he`s apologized enough...
SEDER: Maybe we should get an anti-Semite here to sort of balance...
ESSMAN: I don`t think there is such a thing as apologizing enough. I think it`s a personal choice.
I will not watch any of his movies even the old ones, even "The Patriot" where he looks like what he called that guy with the little 3- corner hat. I will not watch -- I immediately turn his movies off. That`s a personal choice of mine.
SEDER: I`m exclusively watching Mel Gibson movies.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Do you speak Aramaic?
SEDER: I don`t. But I like to feel like I`m being attacked.
RIVERS: Like quit saying you allegedly said these things.
BEHAR: Yes.
RIVERS: You said them. Say, "I said them. I`m a jerk. I`ve learned. I`m sorry." And then everyone can move on.
BEHAR: Well, he did say that the insult was directed at his publicist, who he says was making faces off camera.
ESSMAN: Right. But the insult was not really the point of it. The point of it was like, "Move on. Move on. That`s years ago. Move on." Hitler said the same thing, by the way.
BEHAR: Oh, not the H word.
SEDER: If his publicist did not tell him to anticipate that question, then his publicist is an A-hole.
ESSMAN: How can you not anticipate that question when it`s been so public? How could you not anticipate that?
BEHAR: That`s true.
SEDER: Dude, it`s been four years.
BEHAR: Dude, it`s going to follow him to the grave. He says that he`s had enough mea culpas. What does a mea culpa mean in this case? I was guilty. I`m sorry, I love Jews now? What does it mean?
SEDER: It`s weird that he says it in Latin. I mean with all things considered.
BEHAR: He talks those languages, dead languages.
(CROSSTALK)
SEDER: Maybe if he says it in Yiddish, I think it will carry a little more weight. I don`t know.
RIVERS: You know he can come over for Passover and I really do think that he`s done enough.
BEHAR: Really? I love what you -- does he read the Torah?
RIVERS: Yes, it`s nice.
BEHAR: Not the Torah? What do you read? The book.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: The Hagata (ph). That`s right.
Ok. Thank you everyone.
If you`re in New York this weekend, be sure to catch Susie performing at Caroline`s Friday and Saturday. And of course, pick up a copy of Melissa`s new book, "Red Carpet Ready".
We`ll be right back with the latest on the charges facing Michael Jackson`s doctor.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Could the long, drawn out investigation into the death of Michael Jackson finally be coming to an end? Jackson`s personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, is expected to be charged this week with involuntary manslaughter for administering the sedative that coroner`s say killed the pop star. But will this satisfy fans the of the Jackson family? And what took so long? Helping to sort out some of this chaos are Jim Moret, Chief Correspondent for Inside Edition, Midwin Charles, In Session Legal Contributor, and Criminal Defense Attorney and Roger Friedman, writer of the showbiz 411 column for the "Hollywood Reporter." Okay Roger, let`s start with you, what has taken so long to be charges being filed?
ROGER FRIEDMAN, HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: You know it takes a long time, we are used to instant gratification on these things. And we always say, you know, he`s guilty. But the police have to do a very methodical investigation to make sure that when they bring charges that they`re going to stick. And even in the Anna Nicole Smith case, that took about a year before those doctors were brought to that point. So it actually could be a little bit longer than this, and we don`t know that the arrest is going to be this week. TMZ jumped the gun this morning.
BEHAR: They did?
FRIEDMAN: Yeah. By saying - but they caused a lot of trouble because it wasn`t true and we had been told that in Los Angeles, I think Jim and I both have to be back in L.A., a couple days ago, that nothing was coming right away. Eventually he will be charged.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But he is going to be - when he is charged with involuntary manslaughter, why not murder?
FRIEDMAND: Right.
MIDWIN CHARLES, IN SESSION LEGAL CONTRIBUTER: I think in order to get a murder charge, you have to show premeditation.
BEHAR: Right.
CHARLES: You have to show malice and a fore thought, and there`s no way you can show that here. So I think one of the things the prosecution is doing here by charging involuntary manslaughter, they`re going by what the facts are.
BEHAR: Right, I see what you mean. Okay.
FRIEDMAN: Yes, he was the last man standing, Dr. Murray. There had been a series of doctors over 15 years who had given Michael this Propofol, or some form of it, Diprivan it was called.
BEHAR: Yes.
FRIEDMAN: It`s an anesthesia that you`re not suppose to have in your home.
BEHAR: No.
FRIEDMAN: And so a lot of doctors had given it to him and I`m sure his defense will be, a lot of doctors gave it to him and he asked me to do it.
BEHAR: That`s interesting but he`s the last one standing.
FRIEDMAN: He`s the last one -
BEHAR: And that`s when he died? A Jackson family attorney was on the earlier show this morning to talk about the charges. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKSON FAMILY ATTORNEY: That is just a slap on the wrist, Maggie, and it is a slap in the face. Because Michael Jackson was someone who we knew was in danger of being brought to his knees, brought to his death by the use of these medications.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Jim let me ask you, if Murray only gets the maximum four years in prison, will anyone feel like justice has been served?
JIM MORET, INSIDE EDITION: Well certainly Michael Jackson`s family won`t. I mean, you look at what happened. And look, there are a number of doctors who are no doubt under investigation in this case because it`s a two-prong investigation. One into all of those doctors who were allegedly giving Michael Jackson drugs for all of those years enabling him. And then with Conrad Murray, the last man standing, the last person who was with Michael Jackson, somebody, I`m sure in the family`s view and in the fan`s view, should pay for this. And I think the family wants second degree murder, not involuntary manslaughter.
BEHAR: Will there be a civil suit Roger?
FRIEDMAND: There will be a civil suit. The Jacksons are incredibly avaricious they preyed on Michael for years for money. They`ve been unable to get money from his estate. The father is now suing the estate trying to get an allowance. He`s not going to have any luck.
BEHAR: Huh.
FRIEDMAN: This will be their golden opportunity.
BEHAR: Do you think they brought those kids out again at the Grammys for some kind of avaricious motive too?
FRIEDMAN: No, well, you know what happened on Saturday night the Grammys had an untelevised ceremony where Michael received the life-time achievement award and the Jacksons never respond to the invitations and they didn`t send it to anyone. There was no publicity in it before them. There was nothing to do on TV. And they didn`t come. So Michael`s old manager, Frank DiLeo, went and got the award. And then on Sunday, they sent the kids and it was scripted and you noticed that the kids thanked their grandma and grandpa -- the grandpa is supposed to be somebody they have nothing to do with.
BEHAR: Yes.
FRIEDMAN: You know, that`s part of the agreement in the custody.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
MORET: Joy. FRIEDMAN: And that`s because Joe Jackson wants to say later, see, the grand kids love me. Now give me an allowance.
BEHAR: All right Jim, go ahead, jump in.
MORET: Well, no, I just, you know when you saw the film "This Is It" and that`s that compilation of all the footage that was done prior to this concert that never happened, I think you leave the theater feeling like Michael Jackson didn`t have to die, what went wrong. And I think with Conrad Murray you really have the sense that -- here`s a doctor who brought propofol into the house, you shouldn`t have it outside of a hospital setting. You need anesthesiologist there; you need certain equipment to monitor breathing. If Conrad Murray left the room for any extended period of time, and was on the phone as we`ve heard. You know what`s going on? And I think that so many people are wondering how could this happen. Somebody should pay for this. So I think the D.A., frankly, it wouldn`t surprise me if the D.A. wasn`t interested in a surrender deal. But they wanted to have him arrested. Because you know they really like what`s called a perp walk. Somebody being in handcuffs because that`s what perspective juror will see.
BEHAR: Okay well, go ahead.
CHARLES: Well I just was going to say, I think one of the things you have to remember here too is that Michael Jackson was an addict, for all intents and purposes. I think A lot of people are forgetting that. But he was an addict.
BEHAR: What was he addicted to?
CHARLES: Well he was addicted to a whole host of drugs. Remember, before Dr. Murray administered this propofol, he was administered a variety of other drugs, Valium and the like. In varying and different orders.
FRIEDMAN: Demerol, he loved Demerol.
CHARLES: Yes.
BEHAR: He did?
FRIEDMAN: Oh yes.
BEHAR: Well, who doesn`t?
FRIEDMAN: Who does, if we all took Demerol, we wouldn`t be sitting here talking about it.
BEHAR: Didn`t Marilyn Monroe die also from an over doze of Demerol?
FRIEDMAN: I don`t know.
BEHAR: They give it to you when you`re giving birth. They did in the old days.
(CROSSTALK)
FRIEDMAN: In the last 2 1/2 months of Michael`s life, dr. Klein gave him like 16 shots of Demerol. He loved it. He would go over to Dr. Klein`s office and sleep in the afternoon.
BEHAR: But this sleeping -
CHARLES: Propofol
BEHAR: Propofol, is not really an addiction, it puts you asleep.
CHARLES: You`re right, you`re right -
FRIEDMAN: You become addicted to it.
MORET: No it`s not really asleep, though. You`re not asleep, Joy.
BEHAR: You`re not asleep.
MORET: No, and you don`t get any rest from it at all.
FRIEDMAN: It`s just what they give you when you go to your doctor to go for surgery and they put you out.
BEHAR: They put you out but you`re asleep.
FRIEDMAN: You`re not sleeping comfortably, you`re just unconscious.
BEHAR: No, you`re unconscious. Yes. Right.
FRIEDMAN: Right, that`s what they are doing to Michael.
BEHAR: I see he wanted to be unconscious most of the time. That`s sad.
CHARLES: And also think about the resistance that he had built up to all these other drugs. If you look at the affidavit that Dr. Murray gave, he administered a variety of drugs to Michael Jackson to put him to sleep, beginning at 1:00 a.m. to 5:00 a.m. nothing worked. It was only then that he gave him the propofol.
BEHAR: Right, okay let`s switch to another - yes go ahead.
FRIEDMAN: Also could I say just one other thing? Jim Moret is a lawyer. This guy, Brian Oxman who keeps talking, was just disciplined again by the bar of California. He`s not a credible lawyer. He`s nobody`s spokesperson. He just continues to go on television and talk, talk, talk. He has no information, he has nothing. And this has gotten ridiculous, he was fired during the criminal trial by Tom Israel for falling asleep in court.
BEHAR: Yes, I hate when that happens. Thank you, thank you very much. It`s always a pleasure to see you. Now I want to switch to the bizarre Rip Torn situation. The actor has entered rehab after being arrested for breaking into a bank while he was drunk thinking it was his house. It could happen. Joining the rest of my panel to tell Torn`s side of the story is his attorney, A. Thomas Waterfall. Thomas, what is your understanding of what happened that night to Rip?
A. THOMAS WATERFALL, ATTORNEY FOR RIP TORN: My understanding of what happened was that Mr. Torn had been out earlier in the evening. He was walking home. He had not been driving that evening. When he approached a facility that looked like a home, and if you see the Leitchfield bank, it looks like a residential home. He couldn`t get in the front. The allegation is that he broke a window and went in the back door. And according to the state police, he entered the building, took off his shoes and his hat, put them by the back door. And when they confronted him in the building, he inquired as to why they were in his home and why they were removing him from his home.
BEHAR: Right so in other words, he was so drunk that he thought it was his house but it was a bank. No ATM machine. He`s looking for the ATM machine.
FRIEDMAN: No teller.
BEHAR: OK, but you know what, Mr. Waterfall, why did he have a loaded gun with him? That`s the thing people are wondering about, too. If you`re an alcoholic, which he seems to be a serious alcoholic, how come he had a gun?
WATERFALL: Well, Mr. Torn had a permit for years in the state of Connecticut. We found out only now that his permit had expired in 2007. I don`t have any information as to whether or not he understood that it expired in 2007.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
WATERFALL: In fact, my only contact with him regarding that was he didn`t believe that it had expired. So he was a licensed person to carry a gun for a long time within the state of Connecticut.
BEHAR: OK. Have you talked to him since he entered rehab? He`s a great actor and one of the funniest comedic actors in the world, I think. How is he doing?
WATERFALL: He`s doing very well. My last contact with him was on Monday afternoon after the arraignment process in Bantam, Connecticut. I did speak with family members today. He is in the rehab facility in New York State. And doing well. I`ve also spoken to his main counselor at the rehab facility and says that he`s very receptive to treatment and doing well at present.
BEHAR: I`d hope he gets better. His daughter, she spoke to "The New York Post" this week and she said my father is a brilliant man but so much has been wasted. He`s pissed away so much. So much of his time and so much of his talent it`s heartbreaking, but maybe now he`s going to have to face the truth about himself and his drinking. He`s turning 79. Is it too late for rehab, do you think?
CHARLES: I think it`s never too late. Look I think everyone deserves a second chance. I mean if you`re an addict and do the work required to get better, who is to say 79 is too late to do that?
WATERFALL: If I may interject.
BEHAR: Yes.
WATERFALL: And it`s certainly not too late for Mr. Torn. I`ve known him for a year and a half. He`s absolutely a brilliant individual.
BEHAR: He is. He is.
WATERFALL: He`s very personable, very nice. And time has not passed him, so certainly rehabilitation is not wasted upon him. He will do well in rehabilitation. He was certainly very interested in going there on Monday when I spoke with him last. I think he`ll be very successful.
BEHAR: Right.
WATERFALL: And I think you`ll see him in movies again.
BEHAR: I mean really the guy has a problem. He didn`t - he wasn`t abusive --
FRIEDMAN: He was always a cowboy. He`s from that generation, the Paul Newman generation. He was wild, but he was married to Geraldine Page, and she was wild.
BEHAR: People should watch "The Larry Sanders Show."
FRIEDMAN: Oh yes.
BEHAR: He is just hilarious on that. Thank you very much, everyone. What do actresses Claire Danes and a surprising new study on autism have in common? Find out when she joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Over a decade after publishing a study connecting autism with childhood vaccinations, a prestigious medical journal, The Lancet, has retracted it. The timing is especially interesting because a new HBO movie on the subject of autism premieres this Saturday, February 6th. Temple Grandin tells the story of a woman who receives a diagnosis of autism and the struggles that followed. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is me telling you that I love you and that I respect you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will never learn how to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here to talk about the film and the continuing controversy of this condition is actress Claire Danes, who plays Temple and scientist autism expert and author, Temple Grandin. Ladies, thank you for doing this. Temple, what do you think about the retraction that came out of the magazine?
TEMPLE GRANDIN, DIAGNOSED WITH AUTISM: There are two things scientifically that need to be done to close the book on the vaccine issue. The first thing is the regressive subtype where kids lose language at age 2. It needs to be studied separately. They also need to take all the studies that have been done. We can take Wakefield, and he doesn`t need to be in there, and we need to analyze is there significant difference in variability between the vaccinated group and the unvaccinated group, it`s called an f-max test.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
GRANDIN: It needs to be done on the data from all the studies.
BEHAR: Okay.
GRANDIN: It has not been done to my knowledge.
BEHAR: But a lot of people actually, Claire, a lot of people were not vaccinating their children based on that theory or whatever you want to call that. And it was really dangerous.
CLAIRE DANES, ACTRESS: Look, I am so not the authority. Temple Grandin is the authority. So I`m going to defer to her on this one. But I think that it`s still very, very unclear what causes autism.
BEHAR: Well 100, 1 out of 110 children, Temple, in the United States is diagnosed with the autism spectrum disorder I guess, Asperger`s, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) up to autism. What is the cause of it, do you have any idea at all?
GRANDIN: The mild Asperger`s, geeks and nerds, TV station engineers, some of those are on the Asperger`s spectrum, they`ve always been here. But I think there has been severe autism where there has been increased --
BEHAR: You were diagnosed when you were a child with autism, infantile schizophrenia and autism. What did the doctor tell your mother?
GRANDIN: Well you see, right back when I was diagnosed in1949, the doctor didn`t know what autism was.
BEHAR: What did they say it was at that time, what did they say it was at the time schizophrenia?
GRANDIN: Well yeah, infantile schizophrenia. Now that`s totally discredited. But back then the doctors just didn`t know.
BEHAR: Claire, you played Temple in the movie. I watched it the other night.
DANES: Thank you.
BEHAR: What did you think when you first read the script?
DANES: Well, I was -- I found it incredibly compelling. Temple is an extraordinary person.
BEHAR: Yes, she is.
DANES: And unique and there`s nobody like her. And she`s been a pioneer in both the world of autism and animal rights and animal behavior. So she`s just been, you know, she`s so accomplished in so many different ways, so many different areas.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
DANES: But I just -- I was in awe of her.
BEHAR: Did you have any experience with autism?
DANES: You know, not so much. Strangely enough, my husband, he wasn`t my husband at the time, played a man with Asperger`s syndrome in a movie called "Adam."
BEHAR: That`s right, Hugh Dancy.
DANES: And he shot that about 6 months before this movie came into existence and before I learned about it. So our films were already stacked with a lot of books on autism. I wasn`t aware of it because of his involvement with it.
BEHAR: So he did the homework.
DANES: Yeah, he did, he did. I just cheated.
BEHAR: People should know that Hugh Dancy is an extremely gorgeous English actor is your husband, recently married, September I believe right.
DANES: Yes.
BEHAR: Okay so - so
DANES: It was a strange, strange, entry into it, but yeah.
BEHAR: Did you spend time with Temple trying to figure out --
DANES: We spent an afternoon together and I just plied her with all sorts of questions and she was incredibly available and open.
BEHAR: Uh huh, it`s quite a stretch for you because you`re usually a nicer girl. You know what I mean.
DANES: There is no nicer girl than Temple.
BEHAR: You know what I mean.
DANES: Yeah, yeah.
BEHAR: You were in an Orson Welles movie. You were kind of a straight lace. And an evening - those other movies of yours which I liked very much as well. So this was different.
DANES: No, yes, very much so. And I felt great pressure because I have such great admiration for Temple and she`s alive and she`s valued by so many people. I didn`t want to fail her and I didn`t want to fail all of her followers and fans or admirers.
BEHAR: U huh.
DANES: So yeah, it was risky but it was incredibly inspiring. And I felt very lucky and honored.
BEHAR: Temple, let me ask you how did it feel to have somebody portray you in a movie?
GRANDIN: Well, it was like going back in time, to a weird time machine, back to the `60s and the`70s and also I really liked the fact that the movie showed all my design projects and it showed how my visual thinking works. That I just loved, that`s the geek side of me.
BEHAR: Uh huh, it was quite impressive.
DANES: Mike Jackson, the director did a really great job with that because, you know, Temple does think in a very different way from us. She thinks in pictures and she thinks in images. And I think he translated that really clearly and articulately --
BEHAR: Right, right, as you said, she was a pioneer in a lot of the things that she did.
DANES: Yes.
BEHAR: And she changed all of it forever I think.
DANES: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
BEHAR: Quite brilliant. Okay, ladies, sit tight, we`ll be back with more in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Well, that was a clip from the very fascinating HBO film "Temple Grandin" and I`m joined by the Temple Grandin actress, Claire Danes, I want to talk about, Temple, tell me about the squeeze machine thaw invented.
GRANDIN: Well, it sort of works like a cattle squeeze shoot. And when I went into puberty I started having horrible anxiety attacks. And I watch cattle go into a squeeze shoot and it calmed them down. So I made my own squeezing machine to help calm my anxiety. You know therapists today often use deep pressure done in simpler matters with things like cushions and gym mats to apply pressure over a large parts of the body to help a child calm down.
BEHAR: Uh huh, how did it feel to you? You did it. Right?
DANES: Yeah. It feels great. It`s feels like getting a hug. And it`s reminiscent of that. I mean we all respond positively to deep touch and deep pressure. So --
BEHAR: The power of observation, Temple. You saw what it did for the cattle and you just picked up on it. Do you still use it?
GRANDIN: Well, it broke two years ago.
BEHAR: Oh it broke.
GRANDIN: And I haven`t gotten around to fixing using it and I`ve been hugging a lot more people lately.
BEHAR: That`s great. I`m so happy to hear that. Do you have any advice for parents, while I still have you here -- Temple, do you have any advice for parents of autistic children?
GRANDIN: If you have a young 2, 3, 4, 5 year old, very young autistic child, you`ve got to start working with that child teaching them, doing nothing is the worst thing you can do. If you`re in an area where there`s no services, get grandmothers, get some students, get some teachers to work with that child at least 20 hours a week with one to one instruction. A lot of things that was done with me is playing lots of turn taking games, singing songs. You`ve got to work with the child to get them to interact.
BEHAR: So that was -- but you also had a very smart mother. Your mother was a Harvard educated woman, correct? I mean that helped a lot didn`t it? The doctors could not get over on her?
GRANDIN: That -- no, they absolutely could not. And I had a great speech therapist when I was a little kid and when I was 3 my mother hired a nanny who just spent all day playing turn taking games with me and my sister.
BEHAR: I guess some people can`t afford all of that.
DANES: I think they are more well programmed now than there ever have been, right?
GRANDIN: Well when I tell people when there`s no money, is to go to your church group or synagogue group and get volunteers to work with the child. Another thing with the Asperger`s types the geeky type of kids, real smart kids, work on building up their area of strength. My mother always encouraged my ability in art and I used that ability in art to do my design work. Build on the child`s area of strength. The kids, good at mathematics, build on that. If he`s good at writing, build on that. These are things that can turn into careers. Also got to give my science teacher lots of credit because if I hadn`t had my science teacher to get me motivated in school, I wouldn`t be here now and I wouldn`t be a college professor.
BEHAR: Everyone should have one good teacher to look back on and say, she really helped me.
DANES: That`s right, yes.
BEHAR: Thanks so much both of you for doing this.
DANES: Thank you.
BEHAR: With me good luck with the movie. HBO`s Temple Grandin premiers Saturday at 8:00 p.m. good night, everybody.
END
