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Joy Behar Page
Search for Former Sitcom Actor Continues; Charlie Sheen Goes to Rehab
Aired February 24, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the search goes on for a former sitcom actor. Is Andrew Koenig just lying low as a police report claims or is there more to this story?
Then, Charlie Sheen has checked into rehab. Charlie, Tiger Woods, Brooke Mueller, Chyna Phillips, I mean just one more celebrity and we`ve got enough for an all rehab basketball team.
And to porn or not to porn, that is the question as a former porn star and the founder of the Triple X Ministry join me in the studio. Hopefully they`ll both be clothed.
That and more right now.
It`s now been ten days since "Growing Pains" actor Andrew Koenig vanished in Vancouver on Valentine`s Day. Though tips keep pouring in to the police, none have panned out leaving his family and friends increasingly worried. Here are his mom and dad, Walter, who played Chekov on "Star Trek" on "The Today Show" this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTER KOENIG, ANDREW KOENIG`S FATHER: He was very depressed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About what?
W. KOENIG: About his life.
JUDY KOENIG, ANDREW KOENIG`S MOTHER: He`s much loved in this world. And I just hope he gets that feeling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Joining me now to discuss this -- Andrew`s mysterious disappearance are Joe Navarro, former FBI special agent and senior criminal profiler, and Beth Karas, correspondent for "In Session".
Joe let me start with you. What do you think happened to Andrew?
JOE NAVARRO, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, it`s tough to know. You know obviously, there`s some indication that he moved out and that he`s made some decisions on his own. The difficulty here is that we`re not dealing with a child. We`re dealing with an adult. So it`s difficult to know, you know, precisely where he is or who he`s with.
BEHAR: Is there any evidence, Beth, maybe, you know, of foul play, do you know anything about that?
BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": There doesn`t appear to be any evidence of foul play. He`s depressed, he was taking anti-depressants though his parents say that he stopped about a year ago.
He seemed to have planned this trip. He closed up his apartment in Los Angeles. And it doesn`t seem like foul play. Maybe the unspeakable he`s considering which is foul play against himself and that`s what everyone is concerned about.
BEHAR: Suicide?
KARAS: Correct. That`s what people are concerned about. Let`s hope not.
BEHAR: Right. Right. That is, of course, on the agenda of possibilities.
Joe, how does somebody go missing without a trace these days in this electronic age? You know, you can really pretty much track people down with their credit cards, and they`re tweeting and everything else.
NAVARRO: That`s a good question. There are still ways to do it if you`re using cash, if you have friends that are taking care of you, if you`re not checking into hotels and so forth, although it is tougher, even between Canada and the United States, the use of the passport.
But I agree with Beth. You know one of the problems is, has he gone from low risk to a high risk potential victim here?
BEHAR: Well, he emptied his apartment beforehand. So maybe he just doesn`t want to be found.
KARAS: That`s right. That is also a possibility. He just wants to go underground and do a little soul searching. But that is compounded by his depression. Right?
So he`s not somebody who just wants to go off into the world and be a little hermit for a while. This is somebody who has some medical problems and that`s why there`s so much concern nonetheless.
BEHAR: Well, he`s depressed. Is that what you`re referring to?
KARAS: Yes, I`m referring to his depression. I mean people do all sorts of things when they`re depressed. They can act out against others and against themselves. But very often it`s against themselves.
BEHAR: Yes. Joe, one more question to you. Are the police in Vancouver distracted by the Olympics so that this case becomes more difficult to solve?
NAVARRO: Well, they`re busy and obviously they`re dealing with an adult individual. So this doesn`t rise to the merit that say a missing 2- year-old would. But I`m sure they`re taking a look at it and obviously this kind of exposure is helping with having many eyes out there looking for him.
BEHAR: Right. Thanks very much, Joe, for the update. Beth, stay here.
I want to bring in a couple of Andrew`s friends. Joining me now is the last known person to have seen Andrew, Jenny Magenta and Andrew`s brother-in-law Jimmy Pardo.
Jenny, Andrew was staying with you right before he disappeared. Did he give you any indication where he was headed?
JENNY MAGENTA, FRIEND OF ANDREW KOENIG: Yes. You are correct that he was staying with me. The only indication that he gave me was that he was leaving the next day to return home. And I -- I didn`t have his specific itinerary during our communications when he was on his way to Vancouver. We only discussed the arrival time of his flight.
So as far as I knew, he was leaving which is what he said to go back to Hollywood. So I didn`t really have any other discussions as to, you know, if he was going to go for a walk or go visit some of our other friends or anything like that.
BEHAR: Let me ask Jimmy. Jimmy, how would you describe Andrew`s state of mind lately?
JIMMY PARDO, BROTHER-IN-LAW OF ANDREW KOENIG: You know, I work with Andrew on a comedy show, so I had the ability of seeing Andrew being talented and funny and at his best. He suffered from depression, so you would deal with that from time to time, he would be sad and maybe a little detached.
BEHAR: We`re going to take a quick break and we`ll be back in 60 seconds to continue this conversation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
W. KOENIG: And if it means you want to stay here -- you want to lead your life and stay here and find some peace and happiness here that you have in the past, that`s ok. That`s ok. You don`t have to come back. Just let us know of your intentions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Back with me to talk about Andrew Koenig`s disappearance are Andrew`s friend Jenny Magenta, the last person to have seen him and Andrew`s brother-in-law, Jimmy Pardo, and "In Session" correspondent, Beth Karas.
Jenny, did you know that he closed up his apartment? Did he tell you that when you saw him?
MAGENTA: I didn`t know that he had cleared out his apartment. He had been open about selling some personal things to friends. He had told us he had an e-Bay account and he -- and that he posted on his Facebook page actually. It didn`t seem particularly odd in a large scale. It seemed like oh, ok, maybe he just felt like he wanted to simplify things in his life. Yes, so it wasn`t a secretive kind of a thing in that regard.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Jimmy, let me ask you, you know him very well. So he has had a history of depression, right?
PARDO: Yes.
BEHAR: Did he ever disappear before? Have you seen any kind of evidence of this kind of behavior before?
PARDO: No, he`s never disappeared before. He goes up to Vancouver from time to time because it`s his favorite place on earth and he`s got friends up there. But he`s always told us, "I`m going to be gone a couple weeks. I`m going to go and visit my friends" and do that sort of thing like anybody would do. So this is out of the ordinary as far as I`m concerned.
BEHAR: And he sent his father a letter, right?
PARDO: I do not know what`s in that letter. But yes, they received a letter where I understand they felt he had a tone of despondency.
BEHAR: So the tone of the letter indicates that there was tremendous despondency. And that`s why everybody is worried about him.
PARDO: Yes. That`s exactly right.
BEHAR: Jenny, if you have to take a guess, where do you think he is? I mean I know this is a tough question but just a wild guess.
MAGENTA: Well, I`ve known him for over 15 years and one of the things that I do know about Andrew is that he absolutely loves our local park here, Stanley Park. Pretty much every time he`s ever visited us up here he`s wanted to go for a hike through there.
He loves being in nature. I can see, you know -- it`s difficult to want to think about it or talk about the fact that he may have chosen to take his own life. But I could -- I can imagine that it`s possible that he would choose to do that in an area that is unpopulated --
BEHAR: Yes.
MAGENTA: -- which is not that simple at the moment with the Winter Olympics going on here. But he does know -- he does know the area very well. So --
BEHAR: So you -- yes.
MAGENTA: I would suspect that if something -- if he did choose to get away from people or go to the length of taking his own life, which of course we all hope is not the case, it probably is not somewhere that is busy.
BEHAR: Right.
MAGENTA: It`s nature, outside, you know --
BEHAR: Right.
MAGENTA: -- that kind of environment. And Vancouver is full of locations like that.
BEHAR: Beth, let me ask something, you know, he gave his landlord 30- days notice and he collected back his security deposit. And -- do you think that that -- does that say that he might be still alive? I mean, he was acting like he was going somewhere.
KARAS: Well, it certainly sounds like he planned to leave, right. And he told a friend who approached him about collaborating on a project he wasn`t going to be working anymore.
BEHAR: Right.
KARAS: The apartment seems to have been cleaned out, the letter of despondency, the abandoning of the apartment and getting his security deposit box, going to Vancouver, turning his cell phone off, no text messages received since February 16th. And there are signs that he is going underground, whether he`s going underground alive or not, that appears to be what`s happening.
And whether there was any triggering event, I don`t know. I believe his father said that there didn`t seem to be any triggering event in his life that may have caused this downwards spiral at this particular time. But with his chronic depression, you don`t necessarily have that.
BEHAR: Well, you know, I watch that show "Without a Trace" and they always say I think, if he`s gone a certain amount of time, then it gets -- the hope it diminishes as it goes on.
KARAS: Yes, the trail gets colder and colder, that`s right.
BEHAR: Yes.
KARAS: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes, anyway, thank you very much, you guys.
We`re all hoping for Andrew`s safe return. Really, we are. We`ll talk about this some more.
Up next, Charlie Sheen enters rehab. We`ll find out what it means for his hit show and his marriage.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Is everybody but me in rehab these days? Actor Charlie Sheen has just entered "rehab for Preventative Measures," quote, unquote.
But is this to prevent the star of "Two and a half Man" from going to a bar or from going to jail for two and a half to five?
Joining me are: Natalie Thomas, deputy news editor for "Us Weekly" and Dr. Reef Karim, a psychiatrist and addiction specialist. Welcome to the show.
Natalie, let me start with you. He checks in on Tuesday. And wasn`t this an expected thing for him to do?
NATALIE THOMAS, DEPUTY NEWS EDITOR, US WEEKLY: Absolutely. They had the problem on December 25th Christmas night; there`s been problems since then. We know it`s well documented that Charlie sheen has had problems for years and years with drugs and alcohol and been in rehab numerous times before.
So it was expected I think for him to save his career and for him to save his marriage for the future of having his children with him. He needed to do this.
BEHAR: But Dr. Karim, he checked in for -- as a preventative measure. What does that exactly mean and is it a common thing?
DR. REEF KARIM, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Well, it means a lot of things. I mean, it could mean I want to stay out of jail. It could mean I`m having using dreams, I`m craving drugs, I`m craving alcohol, I know I`m going to relapse at some point. It could mean I`ve already relapsed. Or it could mean -- you know what, it`s a good move for me to just chill out and go somewhere, where nobody is going to bother me and I can just work on myself.
BEHAR: Right.
Now, it was alleged and reported that he was drinking the night of the incident with his wife where he held a knife to her and all that --
KARIM: Yes.
BEHAR: -- and also the night before his wife checked into a rehab.
THOMAS: Yes, absolutely.
BEHAR: Ok, couldn`t he go to jail for that?
THOMAS: He is -- he was just actually charged with a, you know, felony and he faces one to three years in prison. So this is not a -- this is not slap on the wrist. This is not some probation time.
BEHAR: Right.
THOMAS: He faces real serious jail time here. I think that was probably another move for him to enter into the rehab facility.
BEHAR: Doctor, they say that he`s being rehabbed for two weeks. Big deal.
KARIM: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, Tiger Woods was in for four weeks. I don`t know if it helps, it seems like a very short time, Dr. Karim. What do you think?
KARIM: Yes, you know there`s a couple things to keep in mind here, Joy. Addiction is a chronic medical illness. So what does that mean? That means like -- like diabetes or like asthma. If a diabetic doesn`t take their insulin, they`re going to have problems. They`re going to have -- their disease is going to worsen.
If an alcoholic or a drug user does not check in, does not go to meetings, does not take their meds, does not see their doctor or their therapist or gets completely overwhelmed by some kind of change in their life, like a domestic problem, a lot of times they need to kind of get that booster, that treatment booster of checking back in.
Now, I agree with you, two weeks is a really, really short time period. And something that really bothers me is people are like, oh, yes, I`m just going to go in for 28 days into rehab and be automatically cured like they`re going to gypsy lube or like they`re going to the mechanic. And it`s not like that.
This is a life-long process. And you really got to be monitored and make sure this doesn`t like root up in your life to cause you lots of problems throughout your life.
BEHAR: Right, so well, you know, he`s been in and out. So what should he really be doing if he really wants to cure himself --
KARIM: So when I treat people --
BEHAR: -- or any of these people who have this addiction?
KARIM: -- right, when I`m treating people, it`s not about a cure, it`s about monitoring. And usually that means after care, long, long after care. You check into rehab and you know, and some people think rehab is a joke. You can actually do good work in rehab, but that`s just the beginning of your long journey of addiction treatment.
The rest of it is after care, which is a good therapist, good meetings, a good doctor.
BEHAR: And AA meeting, AA meetings, right?
KARIM: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes.
KARIM: That`s what I mean, AA meetings, NA meetings, CA meetings, just an area where you`re with people like you that are -- have the same goal in mind and you have a community around you of people trying to be sober. That`s really where the meat is, it -- it`s in staying in a sober community.
BEHAR: And his wife, Brooke. Now, Brooke was in rehab at something called the Canyon in Malibu.
KARIM: Right.
THOMAS: Yes.
BEHAR: Which is pretty fancy and it`s no motel six we`re talking about.
THOMAS: No, no.
KARIM: No, it`s a good rehab. I know it very well and it`s a legit good rehab.
BEHAR: But she left because of a security breach or something and now she`s in a private home facility that provides high-end rehab services. What is that?
KARIM: Yes.
BEHAR: Is that like a spa, Natalie?
THOMAS: All of these rehab facilities and I`m not here to knock them by any means, but these are, like you said, these are you know, five-star facilities that these celebrities are used to this kind of lifestyle. And so they go to these centers, which not only do they have treatment but they also have, you know, spa services and you know horse therapy sessions and all these kinds of crazy things.
But yes, she was in Malibu, the Canyon --
BEHAR: Right.
THOMAS: -- and left on Monday because there was a security breach. She`s now at another place in L.A., she wants to stay close so she can see her children.
BEHAR: But they`re bringing the children in, I think.
THOMAS: They are bringing the children to see her, that`s right.
BEHAR: Eleven-month old twins she has and the twins are going to be brought in.
Doctor, what do you think about that? The fact that they`re bringing --
KARIM: Yes.
BEHAR: -- these babies in there?
KARIM: Well, first off, this makes a major point and the major point is entitlement. Entitlement, whether you`re a celebrity or non-celebrity, the ego plays tricks on you. And your brain plays tricks on you when you`re under the influence of a drug or basically being an addict.
So what ends up happening is like, "This place, yes, I know it`s a 5-star place. But it`s not good enough for me." Or security is too weird at this place. Or, you know what, the broccoli tastes bad at this place or whatever. They`ll come up with whatever they need to come up with to get out of there.
What it is, is it`s just resistance to treatment. So when you get a private home kind of facility, and I`m pretty sure I know which facility or how that`s working, it`s not necessarily a bad thing, but what it is, is it`s not going to have the same structure. It`s not going to have the same group. It`s not going to have any of that same stuff and that could be bad for her.
BEHAR: Ok, guys. Sit tight.
When we come back I want your take on Lindsay Lohan`s plans to move across the pond.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: So Lindsay Lohan has announced that she`s going to move to London. Is there something wrong with the Scotch and cocaine here? That`s what I want to know.
Still with me are Natalie Thomas and Dr. Reef Karim.
All right. This is what Lindsay Lohan wrote on her Twitter page which is now the main source of information for everything.
THOMAS: This is how celebrities are breaking news daily.
KARIM: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s unbelievable. She says, "Moving to the U.K. is in my near future. Better deejay music and Paris is just a tunnel away." And so is Lord`s.
Ok, doctor, she admitted to cocaine use and three rehab visits. Could a move to another city help the girl?
KARIM: Yes and no. Yes, because if you`re looking for a new start, new friends, new look on life, absolutely; but no, if you`re looking for new deejays, new nightclubs, new shady guys or girls and new drugs. No, based on what she`s saying, if you`re going to actually say, "I`m moving to the U.K. to check out new deejays," that is not a good sign for your recovery.
I mean come on.
BEHAR: I mean I have heard celebrities doing something like this. I think it was Carol Burnett I read years ago, sent one of her -- moved to Hawaii to get out of L.A. where all the drugs were. And Angela Lansbury moved all the way to Ireland one time with her family to get them away from drugs.
It`s not a new idea. It actually could work for some people.
THOMAS: A move is not necessarily a bad idea, but to move to London and for the deejays. Her -- you know her ex Samantha Ronson was also a deejay. So we know she has a thing for deejays. She was just recently in London going out to clubs and that`s one of the main reasons that she has now this idea in her head she would like to move to London.
And she also had parts that concern me the most in that interview is that she said that she suffers from alcohol addiction and drug addiction and she`s been in rehab three times, been arrested twice, but that she still drinks and that she knows her limits now. This is a 23-year-old girl who --
BEHAR: That is so delusional isn`t it doctor when people who drink say they know their limits? I mean, really.
KARIM: What does alcohol do? It makes you more impulsive. It makes you think all sorts of crazy things that you don`t think.
BEHAR: It makes you have sex with your husband sometimes.
KARIM: Yes. Listen, alcohol saves a lot of marriages, let me tell you that.
BEHAR: That`s true. Ok. Finally, Kelly Osbourne has landed on the "Us Weekly" cover after losing more than 40 pounds. She talks about her struggles with weight loss in your magazine. How much has she lost and how did she do it?
THOMAS: She`s lost 42 pounds and the reason that she`s coming forward with this now and that she`s on the cover is because she`s done it the healthy way. She`s yo-yoed (ph) in the past and done every kind of crash diet. She says she starved herself. She said she went on the Atkins. She did all, everything that we`ve heard of in the past.
But she`s actually now -- it was triggered by going on "Dancing with the Stars" and working out a lot and lost a lot of weight and she`s maintained taped that by taking ballet bar classes which is a combination of ballet and Pilates in L.A. And really eating sensibly as we all know is really the only trick.
BEHAR: She said that she took more hell (ph) for being fat than for being a drug addict. I thought that was a great quote.
THOMAS: Which is really sad, what does that say about our society and our culture.
BEHAR: Exactly. Ok. Thank you very much. Thanks, Dr. Karim.
I chatted with the enigma known octo-mom on my other show this morning. I`ll tell you all about it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: It`s been just over a year since the octomom had her octuplets and took over the media waves. Now she`s writing a book. I wonder what the title will be, "Birth of a Nation?" I had the pleasure of hanging out with her this morning over at "The View."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know you`ve got this maniacal laugh that throws everybody. That laugh.
(LAUGHTER)
SULEMAN: I don`t like it. I try to suppress it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s a crazy laugh, girl.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But it`s great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I love her. With me now to discuss the octomom and other pop culture news de jour is Paula Froelich, former editor of New York Post Page Six, Andy Cohen, Bravo senior vice president of original programming and development and host of "Watch What Happens: Live on Bravo" and Carey Reilly, comedienne. Okay, now, what did you think of that? Of her, today, did you see the show?
CARRIE REILLY, COMEDIENNE: I saw it, she`s crazy.
PAULA FROELICH, FM.R EDITOR, PAGE SIX: My ears are still bleeding. Honestly, why, why? I mean are you guys that desperate for ratings right now that you have to have the octomom on.
BEHAR: We have you on.
FROELICH: I got you good ratings that is what I`m saying. I didn`t pop out 16 kids.
REILLY: I can`t get over the lip. She was like - I need a laugh coach to - right? What is that?
FROELICH: And she says she`s never had plastic surgery.
BEHAR: Can I say something, she`s not stupid, that girl. She`s intelligent.
ANDY COHEN, HOST, "WATCH WHAT HAPPENS: LIVE ON BRAVO": Actually, she`s crazy but smart.
BEHAR: Yes.
COHEN: She`s a lunatic but she is smart. And I love the way you all were looking at her with such hate in your eyes.
BEHAR: That`s so not true Andy. Excuse me -- Don`t tell me what I was thinking. I did not hate her, I liked her very much.
COHEN: Really?
FROELICH: And Joy didn`t have hate in her eyes because she already had like a valium before the show.
BEHAR: I had the "Jersey Shore" yesterday, that was a little more hatred there. But not for the octomom. Sorry.
FROELICH: Wait a minute, how can you hate "The Jersey Shore" more than -
BEHAR: I don`t hate them.
FROELICH: You hate octomom is like putting 16 kids out into the world, all of them are getting no attention and they`re all just like, hey, help me.
REILLY: And we`re all supporting the children. Aren`t they all on welfare? We are all supporting them.
BEHAR: They will be if not now. She gets money from you know, people like the "Globe" or "Star" magazine.
COHEN: Right. Well at least -
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: In her defense, I like it that she said I sell photos of my family to get money.
BEHAR: Yes she was honest.
COHEN: She was very - she was honest. I mean Kate Gosselin, these people who do media tours -
FROELICH: Yes.
COHNE: Who have thousands of kids at home and are doing press all over the place to promote nothing, that`s what I cannot understand.
REILLY: Where were her kids during "The View"? And who is taking care of them?
BEHAR: She has a couple of nannies.
FROELICH: Wait a minute, moms need a break here and there, first of all.
BEHAR: Can I say something to Andy? You have a lot of crazy shows on Bravo, why don`t you give her a reality snow
COHEN: I would not even consider it.
BEHAR: Why not?
COHEN: Because most of the people who are on Bravo, who have reality shows, like Rachel Zoe or Tom Colicchio, actually are talented in some way.
BEHAR: Rachel Zoe so needs to put on weight. I saw pictures of here in magazine.
COHEN: Well that`s another story.
BEHAR: So why don`t you deal with her. You don`t call her a lunatic, you call the poor octomom a lunatic.
COHEN: I think, I think that Rachel Zoe is a really talented stylist.
BEHAR: So if you`re talented, you are not a lunatic?
COHEN: I don`t think that Rachel Zoe is a lunatic.
BEHAR: Okay.
COHEN: Yes.
FROELICH: I`m going to go in defense of that.
COHEN: Yes.
BEHAR: Why are you guys mad at the octomom? You don`t have to raise the babies. People are mad at this woman. I don`t get it.
REILLY: No, they are mad because she did start on public assistance. And that`s how all the shenanigan started.
BEHAR: Listen you are paying - she`s a single mom. There are wars all over the world, that doesn`t bother you?
REILLY: But she`s a single mother, my war, and there`s 14 children? Right?
FROELICH: I don`t mind the single mom, what I mind is like this quest for celebrity. Look at me, look at me, look at me. I`ve got all these kids and now I`m doing reality shows. I`m --
BEHAR: She does it for the money Paula -
(CROSSTALK)
REILLY: It`s like a Heidi Montag -
FROELICH: Everybody has a quest for celebrity.
REILLY: Making a living - go out and make a living. Do you really need 16 kids? This is -- it`s obviously psychological. She`s obviously a little off. And nobody has stepped in to say, hey, whokokatchu, you don`t need another kid when you`re a single mom with six kids.
BEHAR: Well nobody is there for her. Maybe you three can be social workers to her.
FROELICH: No, thanks. I would rather be --
COHEN: I don`t care to be - get involved in that discussion.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I mean the woman did admit she was delusional and in denial before she got pregnant with this last batch.
COHEN: Yes.
FROELICH: Listen -
COHEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
FROELICH: Listen that performance on her couch, she needs a babysitter. And how are you going to - it`s like, I wouldn`t trust her with one kid let alone 16.
BEHAR: She has -
FROELICH: No but she needs a personal baby sitter. She didn`t ask any questions and kept spouting stuff like straight from "The Secret" and you`re like, come on.
BEHAR: "The Secret.
FROELICH: Really, what are you like 12 years old?
REILLY: We all watch her, we are all interested.
BEHAR: Okay let`s move on to another topic.
COHEN: All right, all right.
REILLY: All right.
FROELICH: All right.
BEHAR: But before that, let`s just listen to her laugh one more time.
COHEN: Okay.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know you`ve got this maniacal laugh that just - it throws everybody. That laugh.
SULEMAN: I don`t like it. I kind of suppress it. And someone told me I need a laugh coach.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s a crazy laugh, girl. That is just one wacky laugh -
OCTMOM: You know what --
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Cut!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Let`s turn to ESPN`S Tony Kornheiser who was suspended for two weeks for comments he made about ESPN anchor Hanna Storm`s outfit. Listen to this. This is the quote. "Hanna Storm is a horrifying, horrifying, outfit today. She`s got on red go-go boots and a catholic school plaid skirt, way too short for somebody in her 40s, maybe early 50s by now. She`s got on her typically very, very tight skirt, she looks like she has sausage casings wrapping around her body." There`s nothing like a pig to know all about sausage.
REILLY: That was sad.
BEHAR: I`m talking about him.
REILLY: I know.
BEHAR: Okay.
COHEN: I think -
BEHAR: He got suspended for two weeks. Is that enough?
REILLY: No, it`s not enough. First of all when your name is corn dog? What is his name? Corn --
BEHAR: Kornheiser.
REILLY: Okay and he looks like a Mr. Potato head.
FROELICH: Cornolio -
REILLY: Cornolia (ph) - whatever. You have the right to sit here and judge somebody else`s fashion? And what man complains that a woman`s skirt is too short?
BEHAR: I know, well, look at him. He is a beauty.
REILLY: What - yes.
COHEN: I have to say, it is unprofessional. You would never say, Nancy Grace`s sport coat that she was wearing is ugly.
BEHAR: No.
COHEN: It is unprofessional. That being said.
BEHAR: I like her sport coat.
COHEN: Okay great. I think that her stylist though should be on probation because I think it was a bad outfit and I don`t understand why it`s sexism. And I don`t understand -
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well what about ageism?
COHEN: What`s the problem.
BEHAR: She`s too old for this.
COHEN: The outfit it is not age appropriate, do we not all say that outfit is not age appropriate for you?
REILLY: But why choose to go for the fat card? Why do you talk about a woman, do you have to hit the fat card?
COHEN: What fat card?
REILLY: The sausage casing, that`s not a fat card?
COHEN: Oh I didn`t get that.
(CROSSTALK)
FROELICH: I agree with Pauline 100 percent. I also agree that he should have been suspended because it`s an HR thing.
BEHAR: Right.
FROELICH: But it is also like why is ESPN not being held up for sexism? Every woman on that whole network -
BEHAR: Yes.
FROELICH: Has to look gorgeous whereas you can get guys like Tony who looks like a guy you wouldn`t sleep with even in alcohol induced slumber.
COHEN: I tell you who else had on a bad outfit is octomom on "The View."
(CROSSTALK)
REILLY: Oh that was bad.
COHEN: I mean that was a plunge.
REILLY: The white boots.
COHEN: I`m sorry to tell -
REILLY: You are right. That was bad.
COHEN: That was crazy outfit.
BEHAR: But you`ve got it out for the octomom.
COHEN: No, that was a bad outfit, Joy.
REILLY: It was.
COHEN: I mean I`m not getting suspended from anywhere from saying it.
BEHAR: But let`s get back to this guy.
COHEN: Yes, yes.
REILLY: But you don`t -
FROELICH: Joy, if you were here in a Bando top and Britney Spears miniskirt would you not just feel like - maybe not.
BEHAR: They would probably put me away for this.
FROELICH: Yes, I`m just saying.
BEHAR: But in her case, the woman is a beautiful woman.
COHEN: Yes.
BEHAR: She also has been around the ESPN station there for about 15 years. She knows what she`s doing. What is it his business to say that? He works for her. It is really inappropriate.
COHEN: But that`s what he does. I mean Howard Stern, you know, said stuff about other people. This guy, that`s what he does. I thought his apology wasn`t that great, too.
BEHAR: I don`t think that Howard Stern says about stuff -
(CROSSTALK)
FROELICH: No - Robin --
BEHAR: Radio or about Robin (inaudible)-
FROELICH: I think it is inappropriate for somebody who is a female sports caster to go out there dressed like a sexpot. Because that - what - it is.
REILLY: I totally disagree.
FROELICH: It is.
REILLY: Go and dress however you want to dress.
FROELICH: You know what, that`s what they say about female sports caster anyway. And you just go, it`s kind of like, no, it`s inappropriate.
BEHAR: There is something to be said about her having a little sense of humor about it. I don`t know if she did. She didn`t really respond. It`s really the network that took him off the air. But you know.
COHEN: Yes.
FROELICH: They should have. I mean that`s an HR issue - it is just --
BEHAR: I mean I don`t like the idea she`s too old for the outfit.
COHEN: But don`t you say age appropriate - is that age appropriate?
REILLY: I mean the outfit was bad.
COHEN: Isn`t that a conversation.
REILLY: Let`s - let`s - the outfit was bad.
FROELICH: The outfit was like Britney Spears in the "Hit Me Baby One More Time" and you are going to think that that`s age appropriate?
BEHAR: No but I don`t think she was dressed that badly. She had a plaid skirt on. Let`s see the picture again.
COHEN: She had mad logo boots.
FROELICH: Oh did you see the boots?
REILLY: The boots are bad.
COHEN: A plaid mini skirt.
BEHAR: I think she looks adorable. Oh I like it, I think it is cute.
REILLY: Come on, now.
COHEN: Yes right.
FROELICH: Yes it looks like someone like Harpers - not like age appropriate -
BEHAR: Jesus bag pipes.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Ben Cromer, the Dutch speed skater was cruising to a gold medal victory when his coach ruined it for him. Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COMMENTATOR: Takes it over, to the outer -
BEHAR: Watch this. And watch what happens. He`s supposed to go in one lane. The coach tells him to go in the other lane and he`s disqualified before that. I haven`t seen a dumb move like that since George Bush became President.
COHEN: Which one?
BEHAR: All right, how quickly Paula is this coach supposed to get fired?
FROELICH: Right now.
BEHAR: Right.
REILLY: Yes.
FROELICH: You know how much money he gets paid and he does it in the biggest event ever. And he tells him to get on the wrong lane? That`s just one job, and he messes it up.
BEHAR: What do you think, Andy?
COHEN: He should be fired already. I mean, is he still working?
BEHAR: I don`t know, that we don`t know yet.
COHEN: I mean it`s the worst call ever of a coach.
BEHAR: Robin Roberts this morning on GMA said that it was karma. Because when a reporter asked him to state his name and country in a previous interview, are you stupid, hell no I`m not going to do that. So she said it was karma.
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: You know -
RILEY: But at what point are you going to be your own person and your own athlete -
FROELICH: And also because it was a reporter who had watched the entire event should know and then says, what is your name and who is your country?
COHEN: Right and he had just medaled. It`s true. He was right.
FROELICH: He was medaled. He was absolutely right.
BEHAR: But why can`t he just answer the question, please thank you? But he says are you stupid? Hell no, I`m not going to do that.
COHEN: Where is he from?
BEHAR: I don`t know. He`s from Holland.
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: That`s the culture.
FROELICH: And -
BEHAR: No Dutch, not Denmark, the Netherlands.
FROELICH: Be an actual reporter instead of a pretty chick who can read off the screen.
BEHAR: Okay, thank you all. You are a very lively group here. Okay, a porn star and reformed Christian walk into a TV studio. There`s no punchline. That`s happening next. So stick around. That`s still going to happen right here - we didn`t get Tiger Woods.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Well thanks to the internet, pornography is nearly impossible to avoid. Personally I can`t relate. My idea of porn is the food channel. I can have an orgasm just watching the Barefoot Contessa make a lasagna. But is porn to blame for so called sex addictions like the one that sent Tiger into rehab?
Here to discuss is the star of nearly 2000 adult films and the author of "Ron Jeremy, The Hardest Working Man In Showbiz.", who is also known to some as the sir John Gielgud of porn. Ron Jeremy. And Craig Gross, pastor of the xxxchurch.com ministry and an anti-porn crusader.
Okay, and back with us is Dr. Reef Karim. So let`s do this, before we start, do you guys think there`s such a thing as a sex addiction because a lot of people disagree with that.
RON JEREMY, ADULT FILM ACTOR: I think there is. In fact, I`ve actually talked to Dr. Drew about it and actually mentioned it in his book. There is. But I don`t think Tiger Woods has that problem.
BEHAR: You don`t
JEREMY: Well if a man is sexually addicted to his wife. Or was a man with 5 or 60 other marriages is a blessing or another case would be, you know, --
BEHAR: But don`t you have to be addicted also to the variety? If you`re just sleeping with your wife, that doesn`t sound like an addiction, that sounds like a life sentence.
JEREMY: Oh, you or a blessing. In Tiger Woods` case, it`s more opportunistic.
BEHAR: Yes.
JEREMY: If you are good looking and a billionaire and girls are making themselves available to you. Let`s say he wasn`t rich and famous -
BEHAR: Yes.
JEREMY: Maybe he would be with his wife and that would be it. But because it is so available - you know --
BEHAR: Okay, Craig, what do you say? Is that Craig --
CRAIG GROSS, FOUNDER, XXXCHURCH.COM: Tiger Woods is for sure a sex addict. I mean one of the signs of addiction is this distorted thinking. Obviously Tiger said in his own press conference, he played by his own rules. He was taking risks obviously with 16, 17 different people. There was no emotional connection with the women that he was having sex with, another sign of sexual addiction. You know obviously, he wasn`t thinking about the consequences, the endorsements, his career, his wife, his family. And so by far he fits all the examples --
JEREMY: Well if you`re going to call a guy who can have sex without emotion a sex addict, --
BEHAR: Yes.
JEREMY: Then every actor in Hollywood, every musician, rock star, rap star, TV star, is a sex addict.
BEHAR: Well that could be. Maybe they are.
JEREMY: How many guys -- most guys and a lot of women too especially in today`s day and age, can separate themselves you know from this is sex, I like the guy, but this is sexual versus this is the guy that I am really in love with. And most people can have sex without being in love. Come on.
GROSS: Well no, you`re married and two kids with a wife and yet you are going off having sex with --
JEREMY: He`s wrong. He`s dead wrong for doing that.
GROSS: No but I`m saying checking himself in a treatment center, probably the first couple of weeks they spent just trying to convince him that hey, this is a problem that you have and --
JEREMY: What would you say, Craig, there are some couples in Hollywood, I`m not going to mention names, who are what you call swingers. They have an open lifestyle.
BEHAR: Mention names.
JEREMY: No, I can`t. Swingers, all right? Well Gene Simmons admitted on the show that him and his wife have had openness.
BEHAR: Yes.
JEREMY: I`m not going to -- there are other couples. So if it allowed upon, it`s not cheating if you agree to it.
GROSS: They didn`t agree to it. She didn`t agree to it.
JEREMY: I know.
GROSS: He`s got a problem.
JEREMY: No, they didn`t.
GROSS: He`s got a problem, Ron.
JEREMY: No, he does and I agree you. They didn`t agree to it. You know but if you`re in a different kind of situation where you`re a couple and allowing a little bit of freedom to get a little playful at swing clubs, that`s not cheating because you both agree to it.
BEHAR: But let`s go back to porn. Does porn addiction lead to sexual addiction?
JEREMY: Yes, it does. Yes, it does.
BEHAR: Wait a minute, let`s talk to Dr. Karim, wait, let me ask the shrink.
Yes Joy.
BEHAR: Dr. Karim, what do you think.
DR. REEF KARIM, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Joy, well sex addiction is legit. It`s just really misunderstood and used as an excuse.
JEREMY: I agree.
KARIM: The important thing about sex addiction, it`s not about how often you have sex, it`s about why you have sex. You could be having sex three, four, five times a day, dressed up as a panda bear, screaming out Lady Gaga songs and it still doesn`t mean you`re a sex addict.
BEHAR: Well doctor -
JEREMY: I agree with him.
BEHAR: Fabulous.
(CROSSTALK)
JEREMY: That`s exactly - he`s right. That`s exactly what I said - what else do you have to do? Am I right? If you`re going to study for the bar exam and be a lawyer. And the day before you go for the bar, you have sex all day long, you`re a sex addict because you fail the bar. But like this doctor said, if you have sex every single day, three times a day, but you are a happy, you`re healthy, you are getting good grades in school -
BEHAR: Yes.
JEREMY: Good occupation, it`s not affecting your life - because Dr. Drew, he calls it a vortex of chaos. If you are living a good life then it`s perfectly fine. You are not an addict, doctor, do you agree?
BEHAR: Hah - let`s -
KARIM: Nice -
JEREMY: Tell Craig -
KARIM: And so he sets me up. It`s about the intimacy and the connectedness that`s lacking. Which your other guest just said. It`s totally true. It`s an intimacy disorder. It`s not about wow, I`m having crazy freaky sex, it`s about what am I avoiding in my life? It affects about 3 percent to 6 percent of the population and in the medical world it`s called compulsive sexual behavior or hyper sexual disorder, and about 60 percent to 70 percent sex addicts have something else driving their mental health car. It`s major depressive disorder, ADHD, bipolar disorder. That`s what`s going on.
BEHAR: All right.
JEREMY: No but, doctor, do you agree that since sex is a healthy thing, we all know this, comparing sex addiction to cocaine, alcohol, narcotics is not a good thing to do, because sex is actually healthy, am I correct?
BEHAR: Not if it`s compulsive.
JEREMY: What is hard --
CRAIG: And what about porn there? Porn does lead to all this so I mean -
BEHAR: Let - me hear from --
JEREMY: Chicago - look at - I don`t think you watch porn.
BEHAR: Let me hear from Craig about that? I want to know if Porn leads to sex addiction.
GROSS: I think hands down what you are looking at online is eventually going to take you offline. Tiger Woods, you know if we look at his situation, he has money, he has girls chasing him. Most guys in the office, 9:00 to 5:00 don`t have you know the opportunities that maybe the celebrities do, so they`re looking at something online.
JEREMY: We agree.
GROSS: Eventually you`re going to want more. What we deal with is people saying hey I never thought I would visit a strip club, I never thought I would cheat on my wife. I never thought I would go out with this escort or do these things, but porn is not going to -- you`re going to want more. And we find that time and time again that people caught up now, whether it`s affairs or just the wreckage this has on your family, a lot of it starts with pornography.
BEHAR: Okay. But if -
JEREMY: I totally disagree with that.
BEHAR: Well we have to take a break, but you`ve had sex with 1,500 women. Are you a man or --
JEREMY: It was a job.
BEHAR: Are you bionic or -- ?
JEREMY: 32-year career.
BEHAR: How much of that did you enjoy? Just a quick answer.
JEREMY: We have to enjoy it. The girls can fake it. We have to enjoy it, or hire a stand-in or splint.
BEHAR: All right guys, don`t go anywhere. The debate continues after this short break. What a classy show this is.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back, and we`re talking about porn addiction, so tear yourself away from that Swedish dominatrix website and join us won`t you?
Craig, can porn actually be a positive influence like for instance, can it help a marriage?
GROSS: I don`t think whatsoever, what you are going to find in a porn video is going to help your marriage. For instance, most of the porn is made strictly for the guy.
BEHAR: I know that.
GROSS: It`s all about his needs, his feelings, what he likes. You know and I don`t want to knock on Ron, but you don`t find many 57-year- old women that look like Ron in porn because the fantasy is all for the male. And so --
BEHAR: Well when he was in his prime, he didn`t quite look like this.
JEREMY: I was spiffy.
GROSS: No but what I`m saying is when you watch a video, women can`t compete with these porn stars. And most of the fantasy is all about what the guy wants. Real sex in a marriage or in a relationship, there`s two people involved that have needs, feelings, and emotions. When you watch a porn, it is not going to do any good for your sex life. It`s one sided.
BEHAR: But that`s because men are producing them. If women --
JEREMY: No, a lot of girls produce them.
BEHAR: I`ve seen a couple films over the years I`ve been on this planet, in fact I can`t stand male porn. It`s a gynecological film.
JEREMY: A lot of girls like more foreplay --
BEHAR: Yes and you go out to dinner, 30 minutes of foreplay, we love that.
JEREMY: Right but there are some women like Belladonna who direct the same old hardcore the men do --. The reason why I disagree with Craig is because a lot of sex therapists will actually include that in the list of things to do. Look Craig acts like monogamy is that easy. I respect him, we are actually the same.
BEHAR: It`s not easy, but it`s worth it.
JEREMY: Women -- he`s been with his wife like 2,000 times, same thing. I`m just saying. But here`s the difference. Monogamy is difficult. If man didn`t have Viagra, a lot of them probably couldn`t continue. So a lot of sex therapists say the key to marriage going after five, six years when it goes to autopilot -- and - complain --
BEHAR: That`s all? No, it can probably go longer than five or six years.
JEREMY: No but a lot of couples complain that after many years of marriage, it wasn`t the same as it was in the beginning.
BEHAR: Yes.
JEREMY: So a lot of sex therapist will say costumes, raw (UNINTELLIGIBLE), role playing, toys, exotic locations, abstention, and maybe a sex movie, you know, a lot of couples do watch. When I debate Craig, I asked the audience with a show of hands who has ever seen porn with your significant other?
BEHAR: Yes.
JEREMY: And enjoy watching something on screen -
BEHAR: Yes, right.
JEREMY: Try on the personal lights. Hands go up.
GROSS: Yes all the guys raise their hand, like it was awesome.
JEREMY: The girls do, too.
BEHAR: But you know Craig I was reading that you actually go to adult film conventions. Do you enjoy them?
GROSS: Yes, you know, it`s -- not for what -- you know, it`s the greatest job because we get to be around porn, it`s not that at all.
BEHAR: Is it a religious experience at all?
GROSS: No for us we just want to tell people, like Ron and I are friends, we are opponents on stage, but we go where our ministry goes, and says Jesus love porn stars. And we see these women and we see these people there in God`s images.
BEHAR: That`s a tricky phrase, Jesus loves porn stars.
GROSS: Well you know he`s not against people.
JEREMY: Well.
BEHAR: You know what I mean.
GROSS: And he`s always pro people. And so yes, we`ve been to 50-plus shows across the world, that`s where Ron and I met, and you know I think Ron likes having us there. The porn companies like having us there. We`re not a threat to them.
JEREMY: He is sincere, and a lot of things in porn I don`t like, either but you -- it deserves defending. So he`s on the attack, and I defend it.
KARIM: You know Joy.
BEHAR: Yes, who is speaking to me?
KARIM: That`s me the doctor over here.
BEHAR: Last word, doctor.
KARIM: Yes, although a lot of people do make porn for guys, more and more women are watching porn online. The numbers are skyrocketing in regards to the research that`s doing on porn. So what`s happening is because our computers are normative (ph), and we all look at our computers, lot more women are watching porn and it is becoming a problem for both genders.
BEHAR: Okay thank you very much, Ron. I have no more time.
JEREMY: That`s fine, that`s fine.
BEHAR: All right thank you all for joining me. Thank you for watching porn and me. Good night, everybody.
END
