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Joy Behar Page
Sandra Bullock`s Marriage; Ann Coulter`s Appearance Canceled
Aired March 24, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight, on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Jesse James` ex-wife says the guy has always been a serial cheater. And if you can`t trust a tattooed former porn star, who can you trust?
Then an appearance by Ann Coulter is canceled after Canadian students accuse her of hate speech or as Rush Limbaugh likes to call it, pillow talk.
We`ll look at the male brain. That should only take a minute, so stay right there.
That and more right now.
The ex-wife of Sandra Bullock`s current husband says he`s a chronic cheater and that there are more women in the picture than just alleged Nazi aficionado, Michelle McGee. Is she a Nazi? All I can say is if it honks like a goose and steps like a goose, it`s a goose.
Here now to discuss (INAUDIBLE) Bullock, Mary Jo Buttafuoco ex- wife of Joey Buttafuoco -- remember him -- and author of "Getting it through My Thick Skull: Why I stayed, what I learned and what millions of people involved in sociopaths need to know" -- the longest title in the history of books.
Lindsay Powers is senior editor of "Us Weekly and UsMagazine.com --
LINDSAY POWERS, SENIOR EDITOR, "US WEEKLY": Thank you for having me.
BEHAR: -- and clinical psychologist, the fabulous Judy Kuriansky.
Welcome ladies to the show. Let me start with you, Lindsay. Now, "Us Weekly" is reporting that Jesse had other women --
POWERS: Right.
BEHAR: And now another woman has come forward saying she had a two-year affair with Jesse while he was married to Sandra.
POWERS: Right.
BEHAR: Are they all going to start coming out of the woodwork now.
POWERS: I mean absolutely. First I have to tell you guys that there -- it`s like the worst kept secret around his chopper shop that he had this way. He would woo these women, bring them in, put these ads on, "Come on and be a model for my motorcycle shop". And this just the beginning; I mean we could have Tiger Woods part two here, 15 women.
BEHAR: He`s kind of like a Tiger copycat, the guy, in a way, isn`t he? And isn`t Kate Winslet happy that all this came -- poor Sandra Bullock is taking the bullet for all of this, right?
POWERS: One day after she --
BEHAR: Sorry, Mary Jo.
You know she`s the poster child for taking the bullet, and that was so wrong of me. I apologize to you.
MARY JO BUTTAFUOCO, AUTHOR, "GETTING IT THROUGH MY THICK SKULL": Right. It slipped out.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Wait, let me keep going on this for a minute, then I`m going to get to you Mary Jo. Who do you think will have more mistresses now, in the end, Tiger or Jesse? That`s all we have to know.
POWERS: I think that`s a tough question, but I`m going to go with Tiger because he`s more famous. You know, Jesse has like a long list of these kind of like random stripper tattoo girls, and maybe there`s more of those out in the world.
BEHAR: I think there`s plenty of them.
POWERS: Here they come.
BEHAR: Yes. Ok Judy, Jesse ex-wife Janine Lindemulder -- this one -- she`s talking. And she claims that he sent her a text message after he married Sandra saying, "I think I made a huge mistake." Isn`t that something?
Why do you think -- if that`s true, why do you think he married Sandra?
JUDY KURIANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: He married her, first of all, for the money.
BEHAR: Yes.
KURIANSKY: Second of all -- because he`s -- if they get divorced, he`s going to get a chunk of her fortune. She`s a lot richer than him.
BEHAR: He has millions, Judy. He has millions. It`s not for the money.
KURIANSKY: Ok. So then, what about for the access to Hollywood? Yes, he had some access, but didn`t she help him with her fame and for the legitimacy because she made him into the also-presentable guy when he`s the biker boy.
POWERS: I have to say that he was such a split personality, too.
KURIANSKY: That`s what I`m saying. I agree. He`s a Jekyll and Hyde -- the sweet guy because Donald Trump liked him, Joan Rivers liked him. I don`t know what that says about them. They thought he was nice. And he came across nice, but he is really two-faced in that way.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Wait a minute. Mary Jo, you`ve been in the position before with your ex, the fabulous Joey Buttafuoco -- who can forget him -- his affair with Amy Fisher, then the shooting. They always say the wife is the last to know, and you certainly were. You lasted with him seven years I understand after the shooting took place.
BUTTAFUOCO: Yes.
BEHAR: So what were you -- what happened there?
BUTTAFUOCO: Mine is like a -- I`m a different case. I mean, I had no idea, and I almost was murdered. So this comes into me like this, and I`m dying and I have surgeries. And he`s swearing to me that he had nothing to do with her and it`s this crazy kid. It just was a whole different thing.
In this case I have to tell you, Judy, I think you`re giving Jesse way too much credit. I think he`s just a boob that thinks too much with his little head. He had his own money, he had his own life.
BEHAR: Little head, isn`t that an island in the Bahamas?
But Mary Jo, do you think that Tiger -- do you think Tiger Woods -- let`s just talk about him for a second. Is he a sociopath because your book says you know sociopaths now? What`s your definition of a sociopath?
BUTTAFUOCO: Well, a sociopath is defined as someone who is a chronic liar but has no remorse or guilt for what they do and say. I don`t think that either of these guys feel that. I think they both feel bad about what they did. I think they`re narcissistic, and I think they`re just guys who are not thinking about the feelings or if they`re hurting these other women. That`s really what I think.
Sociopathy is not what they -- those to guys have.
BEHAR: You don`t think so?
KURIANSKY: I wouldn`t label them that. I would say that they`re narcissistic. A sociopath doesn`t know right from wrong. That`s the classic definition.
BEHAR: Yes. So do they -- do they know right from wrong?
KURIANSKY: I think they know right from wrong.
BEHAR: They know they`re cheating on their wives.
KURIANSKY: They feel, "I can get away with it. That`s what I want.
BEHAR: Maybe it`s the fact that they`re doing wrong that turns them on.
KURIANSKY: That`s partly it. The bad boy loves to do things that are wrong. That`s very brilliant.
BEHAR: With the bad girl.
KURIANSKY: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
KURIANSKY: And I have to tell you something. Those girls who get attracted to those guys have a little piece of wanting to be bad in them too. So everybody`s giving Sandra a pass. Why is she attracted to this biker boy? There`s a piece of her who wants to be that way; wants to be tough.
BEHAR: Ok. Look at these -- look at these pictures of Jesse`s alleged mistress, Michelle McGee from TMZ. She`s wearing the swastika armband. There were reports that there`s also a photo of Jesse James in Nazi garb and giving the Nazi salute.
POWERS: That`s right. "Us Weekly" has actually seen those photos. We`re trying to run them.
BEHAR: And -- oh, really -- you saw him?
POWERS: Yes.
BEHAR: So he`s actually doing the thing?
POWERS: Doing the "Heil Hitler" and right -- and apparently he`s making the mustache symbol of Hitler. But sources tell us that he is not - - you know he isn`t anti-Semitic.
BEHAR: He`s not anti-Semitic.
POWERS: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok. We`ll give him that.
KURIANSKY: I don`t know. You can`t lie. They say that he`s interested in history. Why isn`t he studying about Charlemagne or something?
Come on. When you`re talking about --
BEHAR: Charlemagne? Ok.
KURIANSKY: French history.
BEHAR: But some people say that this is a Nazi subculture thing in the biker world.
(CROSSTALK)
POWERS: It`s a gear head thing, so they`re attracted to kind of the machinery aspect of it. But that seems like kind of a lame excuse.
KURIANSKY: It`s S and M. That`s why. It`s sado-masochism.
BEHAR: There you go.
KURIANSKY: That`s what it is.
BEHAR: Mary Jo, you agree with that? S and M, baby? Huh?
BUTTAFUOCO: I don`t know anything about what you`re talking about. How`s that?
KURIANSKY: It`s perversion. What did Hitler do? He urinated on his niece. He had sex with his niece. He also did that -- he defecated on people. He was perverted.
BEHAR: I think it`s charming. I mean how much worse can you get than Hitler? Unbelievable.
But I mean, I don`t think that -- well, we`re not comparing Jesse James to Hitler. Let`s get something straight here. The guy has Nazi sort of -- he`s interested in the whole Nazi thing, and I think that`s weird.
KURIANSKY: It`s dominance and submission if you want to play it down just a little bit. But it`s about control, and these are sexual fantasies that a lot of strippers do. He has a Madonna prostitute syndrome -- not Madonna the rock star. He has Sandra the sweet girl supposedly, and then the real wild women.
POWERS: And this woman too is just a shocker as well, Michelle McGee. She`s known for stripping, doing these sex videos online, using reportedly her 5-year-old son`s name as her pornographic name. So she is definitely - - her ex-husband says she`s manic-depressive, so she`s out there to shock.
BEHAR: Mary Jo, why do you think that Sandra didn`t see the sign? You`ve been there so why do you think she didn`t catch it.
BUTTAFUOCO: I think that when he met her, he was charmed by her wholesomeness and her goodness and her sweetness. And maybe he thought then, "I`m done with this life. I have to settle down. I`m an older man. I have small children. This woman is going to be good for my children." And he believed it.
And then time goes by, and she`s normal. She`s boring. She`s like me. We don`t need to go out and like you said wear swastikas and ride on the back of bikes and go off the sides of road. And all of a sudden it`s like, "Gee, I thought that`s what I wanted, but maybe it`s not."
And then she goes off to do a movie, she goes off on her career. She`s doing her thing, being honest and sweet and loyal. And now the temptation comes in and he goes back to it.
Why do they always think, though, that they`re going to get away with it? That is always a thing that makes it --
BEHAR: Why do they think that, Judy?
KURIANSKY: Well, I disagree a little bit with her. They want their cake and eat it, too. They need the two. It`s not like I`m going to give out -- give away that life. I want this wild, sexy crazy woman who can have threesomes, which she talked about, right? Then I want the sweet woman at home who`s going to take care of my kids. They want them both.
BEHAR: Ok. I think that`s true, but don`t you think women have a similar fantasy, if they could get away with it?
KURIANSKY: Yes.
BEHAR: Because I mean what`s wrong with having a wife in the form of a man at home taking care of everything and a guy down in the Bahamas for a stoop (ph) here and there.
KURIANSKY: This is called the Daddy Don Juan Syndrome. You nailed it exactly. The Daddy Don Juan, yes, and it`s the same thing.
(CROSSTALK)
POWERS: With Sandra, he would get bored. She would travel to these movies. He was never spotted on set. And that he would get bored when she would go. When she was there, he was genuinely in love with her. She would leave, done.
BEHAR: Oh, really? Well, you know a lot about this guy.
(CROSSTALK)
BUTTAFUOCO: Here`s -- I want to butt in here for a second.
BEHAR: Go ahead.
BUTTAFUOCO: You know what -- why we`re making such a big fuss of this? Because just a week and a half ago she`s standing there looking at him lovingly and giving him all the credit.
She just achieved the highest honor that a person in her profession can achieve. And she looks at him and she gives him all this credit and he`s sitting there crying and smiling and thinking to himself, "I am so dead. I am so dead, because next week we`re going to find all of this out. And I`m in trouble." And that`s why we`re making a big deal about it now because she made such a fuss over him being her -- her rock and her strength and her inspiration.
BEHAR: That`s interesting.
KURIANSKY: Well, we don`t expect that unfortunately from Sandra. She should have been smarter I have to say because these women hate guys like that. I`ve seen it, you know -- I`ve been talking about this on the radio for years and for decades to women.
BEHAR: Yes.
KURIANSKY: Open your eyes. You pick those guys because you`ve got a piece of it in you.
BEHAR: I know. But you know what Woody Allen says the heart wants what the heart wants.
POWERS: Right.
KURIANSKY: Right.
BEHAR: And it`s possible that -- should chemistry -- better loving through chemistry, they say.
KURIANSKY: Exactly. So it`s a (INAUDIBLE) to her, he wanted something from her, she wanted something from him and then it works that way.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Go ahead.
BUTTAFUOCO: Something worked for a while. Something worked for a while. They were together for a few years. Something worked for a while. It wasn`t just like they got together and it`s over.
BEHAR: But let me -- let me ask all of you. Should she stay with him, Lindsay?
POWERS: No, absolutely not.
BEHAR: She should dump him right?
POWERS: I think she done -- and sources tell us that she`s not staying with him anyway.
BEHAR: Oh really?
POWERS: Yes.
BEHAR: What else have your sources told you?
POWERS: Well, now the reps are denying that they have consulted with divorce lawyers. But you know, she -- as soon as this newsbreaks she leaves town, she`s just came back to Los Angeles late last night. It doesn`t seem likely whether she`s going to stick around.
BEHAR: Ok, Mary Jo, should she dump him?
BUTTAFUOCO: Run, run for the hills. Don`t look back. Go. Bye-bye.
BEHAR: Judy, I know your answer. Don`t say it.
KURIANSKY: Yes, I have to say, yes I mean, it`s not fair for a psychologist to say yes, she should dump him, but she should.
BEHAR: Ok, all right.
KURIANSKY: I`m with you.
BEHAR: Thank you guys very much. Thank you Mary Jo.
Ann Coulter is in the middle of a firestorm. What else is new? I`ll have the latest next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: A speech by a conservative pundit Ann Coulter was canceled last night after students at the University of the Ottawa protested. Some students said Coulter is guilty of hate speech, but is hate speech also free speech?
Here to sort is all out are John Avlon, columnist for the DailyBeast.com and author of "Wing Nuts: How the lunatics fringe in Hijacking America," and Sam Seder, media commentator and co-author of "FUBAR: America`s Right Wing Nightmare".
By the way, Ann Coulter will be on the show tomorrow, so whatever we say about her will be discussed tomorrow, so watch what you say.
SAM SEDER, MEDIA COMMENTATOR: I`ll be here protesting.
BEHAR: Ok, now was it fair to cancel Ann Coulter, John? What do you think?
JOHN AVLON, DAILYBEAST.COM: That was cowardly. You invited her. I mean, you know her shtick, right? She walks right up to the line. She tries to incite and provoke to create publicity for herself. But you know, we can`t have free speech every place but college campuses. This is a good place to teach kids.
But no, you can protest and you can disagree but you do it civilly.
BEHAR: I think that the college -- they thought she was in harm`s way, that`s why they canceled it, right?
AVLON: Get more security.
BEHAR: They should get more security?
SEDER: Yes, I agree. I mean, she should have the right to speak there. I mean, the real story to me is that, she`s barnstorming in Ottawa during the health care debate? I mean, she`s sort of like a Jacob Smirnoff of political pundits at this point.
You know, she was sequestered somewhere down in the south, and he`s got a business -- she`s doing all right there. But she`s got to go to Canada.
BEHAR: Well, it`s a money gig, Sam. She makes money doing that.
SEDER: I hear you.
BEHAR: Yes.
SEDER: But I mean, if she has to go to Ottawa to make money, she`s sort of lost some of her elements.
BEHAR: Ok, let me tell you what -- is there a line between free speech and hate speech. These are the things that she`s accused of saying or she said. I`m quoting her, she`s called Muslims "Rag Heads", "Camel Jockeys" and "Jihad Monkeys". She`s called John Edwards a "(EXPLETIVE DELETED)"; one of the worst things you can say. She said, "Jews need to be perfected by converting to Christianity".
That was a strange remark. I mean, who does this woman like anyway? Who does she like, she seems to take a lot of shots.
Now, is what I just quoted you, is that hate speech or free speech?
AVLON: It`s both. It`s both. But look, you know, it is a schtick that is incredibly cynical because she is trying to walk up the line here. And she`s awfully proud she knows the Constitution --
BEHAR: Yes.
AVLON: So, she`s trying to walk up to that line, about yelling in fire in a crowded theatre and that is -- that is how she creates -- that is how she gets books and sells books. She tries to incite people and there`s something deeply cynical about it and troubling.
And the people who like her are the folks on the far right. It`s the ultimate extreme of playing to the base politics.
BEHAR: Right. But she thinks that she`s funny. Does she not get away with it because maybe she`s not a professional comedian? Because Bill Maher says a lot of volatile things on his show; I do, too. But we sort of -- we don`t get in the kind of trouble that she does. Why?
SEDER: She`s -- I mean, well, she`s not a comedian.
BEHAR: Yes.
SEDER: I mean, she`s -- aside from not being funny, she`s not a comedian. And -- I don`t know to what extent she really -- for most of her career, she hasn`t necessarily been a far right figure.
She`s been an important ideological pillar of the conservative movement. She`s spoken at CPAC every year maybe except for her since her comment about John Edwards. And I think that`s why she -- I mean, I don`t know if she gets away it. She says it and she sells books.
BEHAR: Well, she takes the heat for it, if she gets away with it. But let`s talk about Sarah Palin also.
SEDER: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok, she wrote on her Twitter page, quote, "Common-sense conservatives and lovers of America: Don`t retreat, instead -- Reload." Then she directed people to her Facebook page which posted this map showing targets on Democratic House members.
What is up with her? Now, to me, that`s a scary thing. Reload? It`s too much about shooting. I don`t like it.
SEDER: Well, I know, I think she -- listen, she uses the vernacular, that`s her brand.
BEHAR: Yes.
SEDER: Right? She`s the woman who shoots animals from a helicopter. And she`s -- she`s also another one of these entities who is just basically there to market herself but also simultaneously is a pillar of thought within the conservative movement. And so --
BEHAR: I know but it`s violent. Isn`t it John?
AVLON: It is violent and on the day, now that there are ten Democratic Congressmen say they`ve gotten death threats, just today over health care. So I think one thing we should do is challenge Sarah Palin to show some decency, to show some judgment and to take those down off her Facebook page today, because that is an incitement and that is offensive and unacceptable.
BEHAR: So you are challenging her today, aren`t you?
AVLON: Absolutely, take her down.
BEHAR: Take it down.
SEDER: Can I take a bat on that challenge as her rising to the occasion?
BEHAR: Do you think she`ll go for it?
SEDER: No, of course she`s not going to it. I mean, this is -- this is what feeds the Republican Party now, and her base essentially loves this type of talk. They would love it if she came out and said, yes, reload, cock and reload and put another bullet in the chamber, metaphorically.
BEHAR: Ok, now let`s say one -- God forbid one of these Congressmen that she`s targeting gets shot, should she bear any responsibility for that if that happens?
AVLON: You know that`s the problem with political language as incitement. You are playing to the most unstable among us. When you use hate and fear to pump up hyper-partisanship, the most unhinged people in society get the wrong idea and take it literally.
That`s why we need to be smarter about this. She needs to show better judgment. The entire Republican Party -- I mean some leader in the party needs to stand up and denounce this extremism that`s run rampant.
BEHAR: And from Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh also.
AVLON: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Thank you guys very much for this.
Ok. Up next, one of the stars of the hit show "Modern Family" will stop by. So stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC STONESTREET, ACTOR: When I said brown people, I wasn`t talking about your brown people. I was talking about people who go to a university, not your people. Not that your people couldn`t go to college. Now, I`m hearing myself say your people a lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: If you`re not watching ABC`s new comedy "Modern Family", that clip was an example of why you should be. One of the funniest characters on the show is the loveable and theatrical Cam. The very talented actor who plays that role is Eric Stonestreet who joins me now.
STONESTREET: Thank you so much.
BEHAR: Welcome.
You play one half of a committed gay couple who are raising an adopted child.
STONESTREET: Yes.
BEHAR: Which, I think that`s a first on television.
STONESTREET: I think it`s a first, too. We`re really excited about getting the opportunity to do that. We say our goal is to make people laugh. But while we`re making people laugh, if we can open a couple of minds here and there, that`s also an added benefit.
BEHAR: That`s very nice.
STONESTREET: Yes.
BEHAR: Is it hard -- You`re a straight guy, I presume?
STONESTREET: Yes.
BEHAR: So, although -- what`s the difference? People like to say that. You`re straight or gay or whatever. But you`re playing a gay guy.
STONESTREET: Yes.
BEHAR: Is that harder for a straight guy to play a gay guy or for a gay -- somebody who is actually gay to play straight in the business?
STONESTREET: Boy, I don`t know the answer to that question. I mean, when I got the opportunity to audition for the part, I just knew I wanted to be as honest and truthful in it from my perspective as I could, because I certainly knew that there were pit falls potentially, like, for people to immediately say that`s not an accurate portrayal.
Luckily we`ve been successful so far with people`s response to it. Everyone seems really happy.
Jesse and I, who plays my partner Mitchell, we get so many compliments from gay couples and lesbian couples that when they introduce us to their kids and thank us for representing them on TV for the first time. We get that all the time.
BEHAR: What about from other side -- from the more hateful side?
STONESTREET: Haven`t -- honestly haven`t had any -- personally for me -- much blow-back, if you will. I always just say, you know, if you -- if you -- blow-back. I don`t know why I said that.
BEHAR: I don`t know why you said it.
STONESTREET: I immediately regret -- this is how --
BEHAR: Well, just keep moving on Eric.
STONESTREET: Thank you.
You know I always say if you have a tough time tuning in and watching two men give babies -- a baby a loving, healthy, happy home, they should just watch people get raped and murdered in some other show.
BEHAR: That`s right. Exactly. And this one makes you laugh.
STONESTREET: Yes.
BEHAR: So there`s no kissing between the two of you, I noticed?
STONESTREET: Well, not yet. I think -- I think people say we haven`t had any physical contact, and that`s certainly not true. I think, you know, what`s going to happen on the show is what`s going to happen on the show. And I think we`re the perfect show -- like the absolute perfect show to sort of make that moment not that big of a deal, because that`s what it should be. It should be just two people loving each other and have a peck goodbye at the office or whatever.
And I think we`re the perfect show to just build that in naturally and not draw a bunch of attention to it.
BEHAR: Ok. That`s good.
But before I go with you I want to ask about this idea that you wanted to be a clown when you were a kid. I happen to be afraid of clowns. I find them very frightening.
STONESTREET: Really.
BEHAR: I think that`s a real phobia that some people have.
STONESTREET: It is. I want to talk about it right now, joy. Can we bring out my clown makeup and everything? Find my shoes and my nose.
BEHAR: Why did you want to be a clown?
STONESTREET: You know, I went to the circus every year around my birthday in Kansas City. And I just was so fascinated by them in the center ring. When I found out -- it`s in the show. When I found out clowns were just people with makeup, I said to my parents, that`s what I want to do. And my grandma started making me clown costumes.
I was performing for 7-year-olds when I was 11 at their birthday parties. I had business cards made up, and I think it was just my way of expressing that I wanted to be a performer.
BEHAR: Was grandma a clown, too?
STONESTREET: She was a clown, but not that way. She was a very funny lady.
BEHAR: I bet she was.
Well, thank you so much Eric.
STONESTREET: Thanks for having me.
BEHAR: Ok. Don`t go anywhere. Tiger Woods, Katherine Heigl and more dish when we come right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: They are, yes, they are hard-wired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are not.
BEHAR: Well just when you thought it was safe to go back to the fairway, a 15th mistress and third porn star in the Tiger Woods scandal has finally crawled out of the woodwork, but who`s counting. Devon James alleges she had a two and a half year affair with Tiger and that their first sexual encounter was a threesome that he paid for.
So where has she been the last four months? Did she miss the newsletter? Back with me to discuss all the details is from Modern Family actor Eric Stonestreet and joining us is actor and comedian Hal Sparks. Okay so let`s get this straight, there`s Devon James, Jocelyn James, Jesse James. Can you get them all?
HAL SPARKS, ACTOR/COMEDIAN: Absolutely, the James gang. Yes, absolutely.
BEHAR: Right the James gang.
SPARKS: Yes, yes. They rode in on the same horse.
ERIC STONESTREET, "MODERN FAMILY": Hilarious.
SPARKS: And you know my issue is, again, this idea that men are hard- wired to cheat, you have to be the math here at least. You have one guy, one man cheating on his wife, and 15 women having an affair with a guy they knew is married. I`m just saying --
BEHAR: What are you saying?
SPARKS: I`m just saying if you are going to - I`m just saying mathematically if you are just going to go men are disgusting because, you have to count - none of these women, there wasn`t a surprise that he was married. He was hired --
BEHAR: We`re not saying these skankettes are innocent?
SPARKS: I beg your pardon. We don`t know that they are skankettes.
(LAUGHTER)
SPARKS: I love the skankettes show, I`m sorry. I`m seeing it tomorrow night on Broadway.
(CROSSTALK)
SPARKS: It`s so good.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about this one skankette. This one named Devon James.
STONESTREET: Yes. She`s a lovely person.
BEHAR: She`s a porn star. She didn`t come out before --
SPARKS: Well star.
BEHAR: Because.
SPARS: She`s a cam star in Florida. I wouldn`t go -- there`s got to be at least levels in porn. I mean they have an awards show.
BEHAR: You seem to know quite a bit about it.
SPARKS: I have no fear in knowing I could break down the entire industry for you.
BEHAR: Well okay Eric, what was the delay? Why did she delay?
STONESTREET: Well first of all I think 15. He needs three more to equal 18 holes of golf.
SPARKS: That`s true.
STONESTREET: I think he needs one woman for every hole of golf.
SPARKS: Yes well - he only needs two more if we include his wife.
STONESTREET: Oh right, right, you know what I think it`s crazy. I think he should just come full circle with everything he has going on right now. It` like now`s the opportunity to admit that there`s some other fascination with something odd that eventually will come out.
SPARKS: I think it actually helps him the more numbers come out. And because if you are going to -
BEHAR: Why?
SPARKS: The case that you have an illness, that you are sexually addicted then volume actually helps you.
BEHAR: That`s true. That`s true.
SPARKS: Then you know if you get into like the hundreds, at some point, well, clearly. But here it is again how many did Wilt Chamberlain, how many did Warren Beatty, Gene Simmons - there is so many he`s not even in that --
STONESTREET: There`s Stonestreet -
BEHAR: Really - why how many have you had? Eric tell me.
STONESTREET: Mistresses?
SPARKS: Right.
STONESTREET: Zero because don`t you have to be married to have a mistress?
BEHAR: Oh yes well now -
SPARKS: Please, yes you can cheat on a long-term relationship.
BEHAR: Yes I don`t think Gene Simmons was married when he --
SPARKS: He still isn`t - He`s never been married.
BEHAR: No but -
STONESTREET: Really?
BEHAR: No but he`s been long term -
SPARKS: Yes.
BEHAR: Okay but how does he keep track of all these mistresses?
(CROSSTALK)
SPARKS: He takes polaroids. Gene takes polaroids.
BEHAR: No I`m talking about Tiger.
SPARKS: Oh Tiger didn`t apparently. That`s why he didn`t even surprise -- like did I really sleep with her? Are you sure? I`ve been shocked.
BEHAR: Does he have time to play golf without all the shenanigans.
SPARKS: Well I always think like how good would he be if he didn`t have the mistresses. Like if he puts --
STONESTREET: Seriously, well it`s not like it is a physically grueling sport.
SPARKS: Excuse me that is a debate right there.
STONESTREET: No it isn`t.
SPARKS: They have carts now. Any situation where you are playing a sport where they cart you from one end of the field to the other.
STONESTREET: They don`t do that in professional golf.
BEHAR: They don`t?
STONESTREET: No, you have to walk.
BEHAR: Okay now wait a minute, this mistress is also - she`s saying that Tiger Woods complained that Elin never wanted to have sex. Isn`t that the old story. My wife doesn`t understand me?
SPARKS: That`s usually the female complaint. When women cheat on the husband, that`s the complaint that the man have lost interest. And guys --
STONESTREET: You have read a book. You read a book.
SPARKS: I`ve written a book, my brother.
BEHAR: Women don`t complain that the man doesn`t want to have sex. They complain it`s not romantic enough, doesn`t pay attention.
SPARKS: The exact opposite is usually true. Statistically speaking, the exact opposite, men actually seek comfort outside their relationships. There are guys who hire mistresses and they end up like not even having sex. That`s a big deal here in New York City even. But women especially tend to just do it because their husband has lost interest physically.
BEHAR: That`s completely a lie.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
SPARKS: Yes, it is, just because you don`t like it, doesn`t mean it`s not true.
BEHAR: It`s not my experience with women I know. It`s not about the sex at all.
SPARKS: Oh I don`t know about the one you have had affairs with, but I`m saying -
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But why do men get married? We want to know when they really want to fool around with all these women? Why get married?
STONESTREET: I don`t think that`s true. I don`t think men want to fool around. They get married for the same reasons women do. They want to have a lifelong partner, and then life happens and you make a mistake.
BEHAR: life happens? Eric, come on.
SPARKS: Men cheat for the same reason women cheat. You know, the dissatisfaction in the relationship.
STONESTREET: And women do cheat.
SPARKS: They do.
BEHAR: All right let`s change the subject.
SPARKS: See what happens when you tell the truth, just because you don`t like it, doesn`t mean it`s not true.
BEHAR: No because I don`t agree with you. But that`s okay, you can disagree with me.
SPARKS: That`s fine. That`s okay.
STONESTREET: I know.
BEHAR: I happen to know women who cheat on their husbands because their husbands don`t talk to them. That`s why they cheat. The husbands are boring and they`re husbands are not romantic. It`s not about sleeping with the husband.
SPARKS: Why not go talk the guy?
BEHAR: Because the husband is mute.
STONESTREET: But what`s the difference about that -- what`s the difference about that if a guy cheats on a woman who he says doesn`t want to have sex with him anymore? If it`s the same --
SPARKS: Yes, you are not getting your needs -
BEHAR: Who says that?
SPARKS: I think I`ve clearly won this. Seriously --
STONESTREET: Yes, I agree.
BEHAR: Well look you`re right about that.
SPARKS: By agreeing with me.
BEHAR: If the wife doesn`t want to have sex with him, then you might have a case. Then he should say, I want a divorce. You don`t want to sleep with me.
STONESTREET: Right.
BEHAR: I`m out of here. Instead of cheating with 14,000 women --
STONESTREET: 15.
BEHAR: And two kids at home, whatever.
SPARKS: Crazy.
BEHAR: All right let`s talk about something completely different.
SPARKS: That`s a good idea.
BEHAR: On "Grey`s Anatomy" Katherine Heigl slept with doctors, killed a patient, nearly died herself and had an affair with a ghost. Is it any wonder she`s decided to leave the series. She must be exhausted. Okay, so do you think she did the right thing by leaving? This is a big hit, this show, and she`s in the middle of leaving. She`s leaving. Why is she leaving?
SPARKS: It is - you know doing drama is exhausting, quite frankly. Especially when it is this kind of stuff. I mean you are literally paid to be miserable every week.
BEHAR: Yes.
SPARKS: And if you know -- eventually you run up against your own kind of emotional wall. I mean I was on "Queer As Folk" for five years, we had everything from you know HIV-positive partners to people getting gay bashed there was tons of elements you know where weekly you would go home just emotionally beaten down. And doing especially not you know when you are shooting a three-camera shoot, it`s on Tuesday.
BEHAR: So you think that is her issue?
SPARKS: I think that`s a big part of it.
BEHAR: You know as I was saying to my driver David Caruso after he left -
STONESTREET: Your driver is David Caruso -
BEHAR: He was right before he got CSI --
STONESTREET: Yea right.
SPARKS: Not unless you came to work in the hummer. That`s the disappointing part.
BEHAR: Well you know what you leave a job like that that pays $1 million an episode. I mean that takes a lot of guts and maybe is stupid maybe. I don`t know.
STONESTREET: Well I just think I take the sort of bright-eyed approach, I think she`s lucky to have like a really great job. And I understand what Hal is saying but acting on TV shows ain`t digging holes.
BEHAR: Exactly.
STONESTREET: And I think - you know, but she`s -- maybe she`s run the arch there and ready to move on, and I wouldn`t second guess her decision.
BEHAR: Would you leave a hit show?
STONESTREET: Heck no man.
BEHAR: Heck no, would you, Hal?
SPARKS: Yes.
BEHAR: You would.
SPARKS: Yes.
BEHAR: You would, why?
SPARKS: Because I know the effect it have on you. And I know this is not a sitcom we`re talking about. This is not something you phone in, it is not even a talk show. This is heavy, heavy drama on a regular basis, and it starts to affect your life. And if you want to maintain, you want to talk about the maintenance of a --
(CROSSTALK)
STONESTREET: Comedies are harder than drama.
BEHAR: You know what -
SPARKS: I know but not harder on you.
BEHAR: You know what is really hard, collecting tolls on the turnpike.
SPARKS: I agree.
BEHAR: That`s really hard.
SPARKS: I would leave that job too.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Okay another story. Oprah settled a defamation suit yesterday. The headmistress of her African school for girls said that Oprah defamed her character. She was scheduled to testify next week. Any surprise that she settled?
STONESTREET: No.
SPARKS: No because she wanted $50,000 per count from Oprah Winfrey. She is suing Oprah Winfrey for basically $250,000.
STONESTREET: I think that`s like suing you and I like for a nickel.
SPARKS: Exactly, that`s absurd.
BEHAR: Yes.
SPARKS: Of course she`d settle. How many lawsuits do you think you get as Oprah Winfrey being who you are?
STONESTREET: But wasn`t there talk she wouldn`t going to settle? Wasn`t she actually considering going to court and testifying and all that?
BEHAR: Yes and that`s what she is avoiding -
SPARKS: And then she went how much? Are you kidding me? Exactly, yeah.
STONESTREET: Oh okay.
SPARKS: I think that fell out of my purse yesterday. I mean honestly.
BEHAR: Well it would have been the prosecution`s worst nightmare on that stand, I think. Yes, right?
SPARKS: Yes, no question. She`s a compelling human being.
BEHAR: And now, what`s the -- the headmistress was only $250,000. Why didn`t she pay her off long ago, you think? When she first made these allegations?
SPARKS: I would assume because she probably -
BEHAR: Why not just there -
(CROSSTALK)
SPARKS: She believed she was right -
STONESTREET: Wasn`t guilty of anything.
SPARKS: Right.
STONESTREET: I think that`s what happens, and I think the $250,000, you know hire -- you hire people to give you good advice, and I think at some point those people reached Oprah and said listen now we`re being illogical.
SPARKS: Yes just call it - it`s not worth your time.
STONESTREET: Write the check.
SPARKS: She really took time off from the show to prepare for some of this stuff.
BEHAR: Yes.
SPARKS: She`s probably losing more money doing that than paying for it, even if she came out right. Even if you know with court costs and legal costs and all this stuff.
BEHAR: Right.
SPARKS: It would have cost more even than just paying out.
STONESTREET: I get it.
BEHAR: But to tie up the last topic with this one, Oprah Winfrey is also leaving her job like Katherine Heigl.
STONESTREET: Yes why would you ever do that? Very similar example.
BEHAR: No, it`s not.
STONESTREET: I`m kidding.
BEHAR: I mean this is a completely different situation. She`s made enough money for 25 people.
STONESTREET: 25?
BEHAR: 25 very wealthy people.
SPARKS: 25 Donald Trumps.
BEHAR: And she`s also put in a lot of years.
SPARKS: Yes.
BEHAR: I don`t know about how many years Katherine Heigl. Maybe Katherine wants to be a movie actress. But so did David Caruso want to be a movie actress. Uh huh.
SPARKS: He did want to be a movie actress, you see how that worked out for him.
BEHAR: And Julian Margulies is also very famously left E.R. when she was at the height.
SPARKS: Uh huh Jimmy Smiths.
STONESTREET: I would like to announce right now -
BEHAR: It took her a while to get back, but now she`s on "The Good Wife" and she`s great.
STONESTREET: Joy I would like to announce right now that I`m leaving "Modern Family" to pursue a film career. I`m kidding.
(LAUGHTER)
SPARKS: I would say that David Caruso left NYPD Blue and went to CSI: Miami after a period which is easier to do than NYPD Blue - I mean --
STONESTREET: Wasn`t he in "Jade", "Jade" was awesome.
SPARKS: It was, it kind of was.
STONESTREET: That`s the only movie he did.
BEHAR: "Jade", never heard. Anyway thank you guys for doing this, and I still disagree with you.
SPARKS: I know. Good.
BEHAR: I know but if you`re in Philly catch Hal performing at the Helium Comedy Club April 8th through the 10th and you can see the lovely and talented Eric every Wednesday at 9:00 p.m. on ABC`s "Modern Family." we`ll be back in a minute with the fabulous Richard Lewis.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: If Woody Allen and Sigmund Freud had a love child it could happen, my next guest -
RICHARD LEWIS, COMEDIAN: Funny, funny.
BEHAR: Guy, joining me now standup extraordinaire and one of the stars of HBO`s "Curb Your Enthusiasm", my buddy Richard Lewis.
LEWIS: I love you Joy.
BEHAR: I love you back.
LEWIS: Great intro, did you write that in front of Morrison`s grave in Paris, that intro? Great intro .
BEHAR: Oh at the cemetery there.
LEWIS: I don`t want -
BEHAR: All right let`s -- I want to talk to you about Sandra Bullock because --
LEWIS: I feel badly for her.
BEHAR: Why you feel bad, not badly.
LEWIS: I don`t know her - no that`s an adverb.
BEHAR: No no, you don`t feel sadly, do you? You don`t feel bad you feel sad.
LEWIS: What is this?
BEHAR: Okay now you were a bachelor for many years -
LEWIS: Where`s my lunch box? You call me an illiterate in the front of your entire audience?
BEHAR: No I`m just correcting you that you -
LEWIS: All right I`m using adverbs improperly? Can I say improperly?
BEHAR: Yes, that`s correct. I want to know, you`ve been following this Sandra Bullock story.
LEWIS: Well I haven`t been staying up all night. I have heard about it.
BEHAR: Okay well we have been staying up all night.
LEWIS: I have problems, too. What about my problems. Have you been following my problems?
BEHAR: Well what makes a guy get married when he is obviously not a monogamous guy? I mean you did that for many years, you --
LEWIS: I cheated on every woman I went out with but not my wife.
BEHAR: Exactly, but not my wife.
LEWIS: That right.
BEHAR: So what makes the guy get married? Why does a man get married?
LEWIS: First of all I`m a recovering alcohol, drug addict, sex addict, chocolate addict for 16 years. So I`m an addict, so if you`re addicted, it doesn`t matter if it`s booze, heroin, blow, sex, if your life is unmanageable because of anything, if it`s sex -- maybe he`s not an addict.
BEHAR: Oh they all say they`re addicts.
LEWIS: No, no -- don`t trivialize addicts. You are hurting me. How dare you?
BEHAR: Sorry if I hurt your feelings as an addict.
LEWIS: No, I was a full-blown alcoholic for 25 years.
BEHAR: No but sex addicts, that`s a little iffy.
LEWIS: I was, too. I`d go back to stores and find that face or that body.
BEHAR: Really?
LEWIS: Yes. I met a woman in -- I`m not boasting about this, but I met a woman who looked vaguely familiar who is a friend of mine now who we slept together. It was my girlfriend for four months, and I was in an entire blackout. This is hilarious. I`m in a blackout with a girlfriend, and everyone is laughing. This is like the cruelest set in history.
BEHAR: It`s very cruel here. We take no prisoners here.
LEWIS: I am, but she`s a sweetheart, but I was a little embarrassed.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: She was so beautiful. I couldn`t remember sleeping with her. Which is a little sexist but I -- it bugged me. But the point is -
BEHAR: Yes what is the point?
LEWIS: I asked her questions, what was in my room, what are my favorite books, she knew everything about me. She lived there a lot.
BEHAR: Yes but you don`t remember her.
LEWIS: I was an alcoholic.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: I was in a four-month blackout, so don`t trivialize alcoholism.
BEHAR: I`m not trivializing alcoholism.
LEWIS: Let`s talk about Sandra Bullock.
BEHAR: I`m talking - I`m trivializing sex addiction in a way because I think it is being used as an excuse by guys.
LEWIS: Do you watch the Discovery channel?
BEHAR: Of course every night.
LEWIS: Would you call a rhino or cobra or rabbit a sex addict?
BEHAR: Yes, I would.
LEWIS: Yes we`re just mammals and most men and women want to have sex. Orgasms are a good -- I`m not an organized religion guy, but it`s a gift from some kind of God.
BEHAR: Right.
LEWIS: It`s like honey.
BEHAR: It`s like honey. People like honey.
LEWIS: People like honey.
BEHAR: Some people have an orgasm when they use honey. Now, this -- one of the girlfriends of this guy -
LEWIS: Yes.
BEHAR: Jesse James, who -
LEWIS: Oh the guy who allegedly - yes.
BEHAR: Sandra Bullock`s husband, he was going out with a woman who liked to dress up as a Nazi?
LEWIS: I saw pictures, yes. Right
BEHAR: Now have you had sex with like a reconstruct look-alike or anything like that? I`m just curious.
LEWIS: No, but I did have a fetish for documentary you know filmmakers.
BEHAR: You have?
LEWIS: Yes.
BEHAR: So that`s the connection?
LEWIS: Yes but not for Nazi films you know, not to catalog the XXXII Olympics.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: No, look. I would just like them to -- I never liked to take pictures. I never was into that.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: I make my own stag movies alone with -- in other words, I don`t need to see me -- making love with somebody.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: A week from Tuesday, let`s watch what we did after -
BEHAR: You don`t need that.
LEWIS: Who needs to do that?
BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes.
LEWIS: Let`s hopefully have sex. Because right now it is hopefully, I actually put a memo up now. My wife is great. She is great in bed. I don`t make love to her enough because I`m tired and have a bad back and torn rotator cuff. I`m in trouble.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: I have to stand on a stool to get onto the mattress. That`s a -- that`s not good foreplay.
BEHAR: No that`s not good. You need a bigger mattress.
LEWIS: I need two plays. I need to go bing, bang, thank you ma`am let`s go to a movie.
BEHAR: These women you had --
LEWIS: Oh back then I was really -
BEHAR: Did any of them have -
LEWIS: I wish I met my wife then. I was great in bed.
BEHAR: You wouldn`t have handled her then. You were an alcoholic and drug addict.
LEWIS: You know but sometimes when you are drunk -- I didn`t remember, but I was told I was good.
BEHAR: Did any of these women, did they have a fetish? I like to cough during sex?
LEWIS: You don`t have to say it.
BEHAR: I`ll have like a coughing fit during foreplay. That`s my thing, okay?
LEWIS: If we made love and you coughed --
BEHAR: clear my throat, that really turns them on. He`s Jewish, he likes a little phlegm.
LEWIS: That`s like having sex at dingdong school.
BEHAR: Exactly.
LEWIS: Hi, kids, how are you? Russian grandmothers do that. They would have phlegm have intercourse and make you eat like flunkin.
BEHAR: That`s it, there you go. See I have that -- it`s in my future.
LEWIS: So what`s the question. I`m so confused.
BEHAR: No there`s no question. Will you stay for the next segment is the question?
LEWIS: I love you. Of course. I didn`t answer one question.
BEHAR: Doesn`t matter. Don`t go anywhere. More with Richard Lewis when we come back.
LEWIS: Why did you humiliate me?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my pal, Richard Lewis. Okay.
LEWIS: Don`t lie to them. Look, I didn`t answer one question. I love your show and watch it religiously.
BEHAR: Yes, now Tiger Woods, you want to talk about him for a minute?
LEWIS: Anything you want. I don`t know Tiger. I don`t like to judge -- moralize, judge people.
BEHAR: All right but I`ll do that part.
LEWIS: No kidding. Mistress -- you judge Gandhi.
BEHAR: I know Gandhi. You know, so over. Mistress number 15 just went public.
LEWIS: I heard. If it`s true, and who cares, number one --
BEHAR: All right.
LEWIS: Anyone -- you know how many people want attention or, you know -
BEHAR: I know.
LEWIS: Or would-bes or wannabes? Look, we`re in this business. Most of the people we started with in comedy are either not in it or just didn`t have a break.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: So there are so many different levels in show business. For a guy like Tiger Woods, you know, if I was having trouble getting a gig I`d go, I subbed for Tiger Woods. Yes. Call my publicist. That could happen. Some of it could be true. Some of it could not be true. So I could care less.
BEHAR: This one`s called Devon James.
LEWIS: What`s the name?
BEHAR: Her name. They`re all named something James. Jessie James, Devon James.
LEWIS: What`s the point?
BEHAR: Jessie James, Devon James, who is the other one? Jocelyn James.
LEWIS: I didn`t finish on the Sandra Bullock thing but I didn`t know how she didn`t know.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: I don`t know how - I mean I`ve been with a lot of women.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: And I can tell right away if it`s trouble. Like they knew when I was in trouble. You could tell. There are warning signs.
BEHAR: Okay some women don`t get it. She didn`t get it, poor Sandra. She didn`t get it. She was a nice girl but she didn`t see.
LEWIS: She didn`t see.
BEHAR: She didn`t see.
LEWIS: But I don`t know - but you mentioned -- you know, tattoos don`t make someone, you know, a sex addict or cheater or adulterer. But if you`re going to have a neo-Nazi on your head or that kind, then you know, like, all right, I love this guy and I`m going to live with this, you know, with a neo-Nazi. That`s her choice, though.
BEHAR: Right. Right. Let`s change the subject for a second because I only have a minute.
LEWIS: Really I can`t get off Hitler fast enough.
BEHAR: Because you`ve been on Letterman and Leno. You`ve been on all the late night shows.
LEWIS: For 40 years.
BEHAR: 40 years. What do you make of the tumult that took place?
LEWIS: Tumult is a good word for --
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: A poor Rabbi now, you know.
BEHAR: You know that is an English word, tumult, it`s not a Yiddish word.
LEWIS: You know if you continue to judge my lack of grammar seriously I`ll never come back on this show.
BEHAR: Yes, you will. You will I will you to come back --
LEWIS: Look I started with Jay. We started together in `71. Letterman gave me my first break.
BEHAR: Okay.
LEWIS: I know all these guys forever. Every show. Jon Stewart, all these guys.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: They`re friends. Not great friends but we`re friends.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: Okay. The only -- I went on -- someone asked me this. It was in the paper, too. Here`s the thing. "The Tonight Show" is a storied franchise. You know this, everybody knows this.
BEHAR: All right.
LEWIS: Started from the bag and then Steve Allen and Par and Johnny and then Jay.
BEHAR: All right this is going too long. I`m running out of time.
LEWIS: The point is this. When they gave the show to Conan.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: It was doing excellently well in his time slot, okay.
BEHAR: Right.
LEWIS: Why they change it, I don`t know. All I know this, they did not give him, as far as I`m concerned, enough hoopla -- is that a word? Sorry, honey.
(LAUGHTER)
LEWIS: They didn`t give him enough press. He`s taking over "The Tonight Show" because Jay wasn`t taking the 10:00 slot.
BEHAR: Yes, right.
LEWIS: I thought -- it should have been a lot more for Conan.
BEHAR: Okay, fine.
LEWIS: Jay was doing an experiment but Conan taking over a franchise.
BEHAR: All right, all right - I`m doing Jay Leno on Tuesday and he`s - ANY advice before I go? Richard, always a pleasure --
LEWIS: You know what, one of the most authentic comedians in the world. Just be yourself and Jay will love you.
BEHAR: Should I wear some clothes or not?
LEWIS: Certainly not that.
BEHAR: Catch Richard Lewis at comics in New York. Friday and Saturday. As part of his misery loves company tour.
LEWIS: Oh, don`t mock--
BEHAR: He`s a pleasure, there`s no more time.
END
