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Are Hollywood Marriages More Unstable?; RNC Chairman in Trouble
Aired March 30, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
VALERIE BERTINELLI, GUEST HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, are Hollywood marriages harder to maintain than traditional marriages? Beats me, not like I`d know anything about it.
Then, the head of the RNC is in trouble again after the party footed the bill for a conservative donor`s night out in West Hollywood at a lesbian S&M club. We`ll discuss.
And filling in for Joy is the second most challenging thing I`m doing today. Training for the Boston marathon is the probably first. In fact, I`m running in place under the desk right now.
All this and more starting now.
Hi, I`m Valerie Bertinelli and I`m filling in for Joy tonight. It`s becoming a habit. She does Jenny Craig, I do Jenny Craig. She sits in this chair. I sit in this chair. You know what? I think tomorrow night I`m going to go have a quiet dinner with her boyfriend. Ok.
Speaking of boyfriends or husbands in this case, a number of high profile marriages seem to be a little rocky right now. We know which ones we don`t have to speak about them. Well, you`ve seen them.
But how much of the discord is the result of them being in high- profile relationships? I know a little something about that, as do my first guests: actress Lisa Rinna who is married to actor Harry Hamlin; Tom Vitale, as Joy likes to say, my spousal equivalent.
LISA RINNA, ACTRESS: Hi Valerie. How are you?
BERTINELLI: We`re good. And Debbie Magids, psychologist and author of "All the Good Ones aren`t Taken: Change the way you date and find lasting love."
Thanks all of you for being here.
So Lisa, I`m going to ask you first. Generally speaking we know that marriage is challenging, yes.
RINNA: Yes.
BERTINELLI: So do you think it`s harder being in the spotlight for you and Harry?
RINNA: I think there are challenges to it. I don`t know if it`s harder. I think it would be hard for us whether we were in the spotlight or not because the thing that we do have in common is that we both are in the spotlight together. So we can get through it and relate to it.
I think marriage is hard, Valerie. You really have to work at it. It gets really difficult, especially after we just had our 13th wedding anniversary yesterday.
BERTINELLI: Congratulations.
RINNA: And that`s like 150 years in Hollywood.
BERTINELLI: Yes, it is.
RINNA: You know what? Isn`t it? It really is. It is a long time, but Harry and I really work at it, Valerie. We work really hard.
BERTINELLI: Yes, you have to. You really have to. Seeing that marriage --
RINNA: We work really hard. And when --
BERTINELLI: Go ahead.
RINNA: When time`s get tough, we`re not afraid to go to therapy. We`re not afraid to ask someone to help us out if we`re not connecting; if we`re not, you know, getting what we need from one another.
BERTINELLI: Right. Speaking of therapy, we have a lovely psychologist on the panel with us.
RINNA: I know.
BERTINELLI: And I have to ask you because I think there`s much more to the Jesse James thing. I think it`s -- because you look at the -- I don`t even know what to call them -- the other things that he`s been with. If he has allegedly, we don`t know that he has, but I look at him and I think, it`s his self-esteem. He didn`t think that he deserved Sandra.
DEBBIE MAGIDS, PSYCHOLOGIST: A hundred percent. And you know, we all come to the party with something to a relationship. And if you see someone who`s chronically cheating -- this isn`t like, oh my God, I found someone. I found love with him. It`s a chronically cheating situation.
There is something missing inside of him. He`s empty and he is sabotaging his relationship.
BERTINELLI: Totally sabotaging. I think it`s different than the Tiger Woods things. I think really Tiger probably felt entitled, he had that "king of the world" thing going on.
I think Jesse was more like -- I mean you look at Sandra who is - - and Elin -- I mean beautiful women, and the girls that they were supposedly with are ugly.
MAGIDS: Yes. Well, unfortunately, beauty --
BERTINELLI: I mean, come on.
MAGIDS: Beauty does not keep your guy. I`m going to say I understand that outwardly it looks different, but I want to say Tiger has something similar going on.
BERTINELLI: Really?
MAGIDS: It`s an internal emptiness. When you need to fill yourself up that much with --
BERTINELLI: I do that with food.
MAGIDS: Well, it`s the same feeling. It`s constant adulation, constant needing of someone to bring them up. It`s a self-esteem issue in both of them. And you know, and your guy is sitting and he can talk to it. You really need a strong sense of yourself to be with a woman who`s beautiful and high profile and isn`t always just about you and stroking your ego.
BERTINELLI: Well, honey. What do you think it`s like being --
TOM VITALE, VALERIE`S SPOUSAL EQUIVALENT: But it is always about you, isn`t it?
BERTINELLI: Hello. It`s my world. You`re just in it. Here`s the world, this is Valerie. Yes, yes. Very good, honey. No, seriously, do you think it`s -- has it made your life more difficult or less difficult dating me?
VITALE: No. It`s easier, because you`re the right person. It`s easier, because you`re the right person. Every relationship comes with challenges? Am I right?
MAGIDS: Yes. Like Lisa was saying.
VITALE: Every relationship comes with challenges.
MAGIDS: They all come with challenges.
BERTINELLI: Yes, you are.
VITALE: And you have to pick -- you pick your poison.
BERTINELLI: Or your battles.
VITALE: Or your battles.
MAGIDS: But I have to jump in. He`s coming to this relationship with a strong sense of who he is.
VITALE: Yes.
MAGIDS: Because in order to be with someone who is beautiful and in the public eye and can`t always focus on him. And also -- I also think -- to what Lisa said also, you have to work at a marriage and especially in Hollywood in high profile, you have to choose monogamy every day.
VITALE: Yes. It`s a choice.
MAGIDS: Because there`s a lot of opportunity. It`s a choice you make everyday.
BERTINELLI: Well, speaking of -- yes, speaking of that --
(CROSSTALK)
BERTINELLI: Go ahead. I`m sorry. I`m interrupting you again.
VITALE: Well, no, I just think, the first step of these gentlemen`s transgressions were in their thought. It was a choice they made.
BERTINELLI: It was choice. They made a choice. They don`t just fall --
VITALE: It was a choice they made in their thoughts first.
BERTINELLI: Right. Right.
Now, Mo`nique is famous for having said that her and her husband have an open relationship. That`s a whole other -- Lisa, do you have any comment on that? Would you and Harry ever consider that? I think I know your answer, darling.
RINNA: No. Yes, I think you know my answer. No, absolutely not. For us that would not work. Luckily Harry is a very monogamous man. But I will say, I think that women have to make an extra effort especially in the bedroom after all these years, because that`s how guys are.
Guys want sex. Let`s face it. They work in that way. And after seven years of marriage, if you get comfortable and you`re not making an effort for your man, I think it makes a big difference. I really do.
MAGIDS: Yes, men are very simple creatures and that`s why we love them so much.
BERTINELLI: No, but honey, listen.
RINNA: They are.
BERTINELLI: But you know, you and Harry are in the same business. Tom and I are not in the same business. Luckily I`m past the age of doing sex scenes and any type of thing like that, but would that bother you? Would it make you think that I was --
VITALE: I`d have to pee in my territory a little bit.
BERTINELLI: Yes. Tell the truth. You pee on your territory anyway whether I`m having sex scenes or not.
VITALE: Excuse me. True.
BERTINELLI: Yes. You`re just lifting your leg everywhere.
(CROSSTALK)
MAGIDS: Yes, I think like -- he`s lifting his leg right now.
BERTINELLI: He is. Be careful over there, Deb.
RINNA: I actually -- Valerie.
BERTINELLI: Yes. Yes. Lisa, please save me.
RINNA: Valerie, I actually think -- I actually think my husband likes it if I have a sex scene with somebody.
BERTINELLI: Really?
RINNA: At this point in the relationship.
MAGIDS: To Lisa`s point --
RINNA: Yes, why not?
BERTINELLI: I don`t like doing them. So I`m really happy not to do them. I`m so glad I`m this age.
MAGIDS: To Lisa`s point I do think sex is really important, but with these guys you`re talking about, the Jesse James and Tiger woods, they were having plenty of sex in their relationships. It`s not about not getting sex there.
BERTINELLI: It cannot be about sex. And it can`t be about finding somebody more beautiful in the world because they had the best.
MAGIDS: That`s exactly right. There are some marriages where the sex isn`t happening and the guy will stray but that`s not what we`re talking about here.
BERTINELLI: Do you think people should have open relationships? First of all, I`m not going there and I know you`re not either.
VITALE: No, no thanks.
BERTINELLI: But I think you make a commitment like Lisa said too, you decide whether you`re going to -- why get married if you want to have an open relationship.
MAGIDS: You know what I (INAUDIBLE). I don`t think there are two relationships that are the same, and Mo`nique is going around saying that they have an open relationship and she doesn`t feel --
BERTINELLI: He has an open relationship.
MAGIDS: Well, but she -- but it works for her. What she is after is safety and security, and if it works for her, who are we to judge it?
BERTINELLI: It`s true.
MAGIDS: It`s really -- I have not found two relationships that actually run the same way.
BERTINELLI: Right. If it works for the both of you.
MAGIDS: And it`s about communication.
(CROSSTALK)
MAGIDS: Without communications -- even with sex. If both of you like sex once every two months, then that`s good for you. If one wants it five times a week and one wants it once a month, then you`re in trouble.
BERTINELLI: Do we have to put a number on it?
MAGIDS: No, we don`t really --
(CROSSTALK)
MAGIDS: Valerie, I`m in the service of you. No number.
BERTINELLI: I know you don`t believe in open relationships, I don`t believe in it. That`s why we get along so well.
I think back to the communication thing, I think it has something to do with -- listen, you kind of -- falling into you just don`t trip over a crack in a sidewalk and fall into somebody --
VITALE: Right. It`s premeditated.
BERTINELLI: It`s always premeditated. So if you feel like something is going to head that way, and there`s a disconnect between the person that you love and are committed to.
MAGIDS: Oh, a complete disconnect and if you`re headed that way, head the other way.
BERTINELLI: Or talk to your spouse first is what I guess is what Mo`nique is saying. I know that we would have at that conversation first if your eyes started to stray if I slapped you up side the head. We would have a talk about it and vice versa.
MAGIDS: You know what, Valerie some people don`t really want to have the talk because they want to be cheating. They like the thrill of it. They like the excitement. They like the newness.
BERTINELLI: No, no, no, no, no. And the guilt? Is it because I`m Italian and Catholic that I can`t take the guilt.
RINNA: I have a question.
(CROSSTALK)
BERTINELLI: What Lisa, you tell us, what?
RINNA: I have a question.
BERTINELLI: Yes, honey, what?
RINNA: Valerie, I have a question. How do these women not know? Did they have an inkling that their husbands were cheating? I mean it feels like if you`re connected to your significant other, you would have an idea that this is going on.
MAGIDS: I can tell you from experience, no, you do not know, or you just -- you are so busy being in denial that you don`t realize it. But when -- listen, when it does then slap you in the face, you think back on, oh, wow, I should have seen that.
VITALE: That was then, that was 20-some-odd years ago. Now? Would you know now? You would know now?
BERTINELLI: I would totally know if you were doing it with somebody else. There`s no way you could lie to me --
VITALE: Look you right in the eye and lie.
BERTINELLI: No, no, not with those eyes. No, you don`t know how to lie. Please no.
MAGIDS: I think somewhere you do know. You`re just not paying attention.
BERTINELLI: Or you`re living in denial.
MAGIDS: Or you`re living in denial.
RINNA: Yes, are you working? Were you busy working?
BERTINELLI: Yes, I was busy working thinking everything was fine at home. Hey look, I`m no angel either. This is the only reason I know it that I can speak about this because I messed up too. I`m not going to blame him.
But I think a lot of that again goes back to self-esteem and self-sabotage.
VITALE: Yes.
RINNA: I do.
BERTINELLI: -- in your life because I think Ed and I both did with each other.
MAGIDS: And that`s why also -- people say once a cheater always a cheater.
BERTINELLI: I don`t believe that, no.
MAGIDS: I don`t believe that either.
BERTINELLI: Because I was once a cheater --
MAGIDS: Yes.
BERTINELLI: -- and I will never ever do it again and I`ll tell you why, because I know more importantly not the pain that I felt when I was cheated on but the pain that I saw in his eyes --
MAGIDS: Yes, yes.
BERTINELLI: -- when I did that.
MAGIDS: Yes.
BERTINELLI: I mean, I will never ever do that to you. As God is my witness, it`s not going to happen.
VITALE: Good thing.
MAGIDS: Yes.
BERTINELLI: Yes, good thing. Plus, you`re really good in bed (INAUDIBLE). Anyway thank you.
We will be right back in a minute. Don`t go anywhere.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, what could have driven Ricky Martin to finally come out of the closet?
And Tiger Woods` alleged mistress Joslyn James says she`ll be going to the Masters too.
Now, back to today`s guest host, Valerie Bertinelli.
BERTINELLI: Michael Steele`s at it again; after a year of gaffs, blunders and missteps, this past month has been a financial fiasco. The RNC spent almost $40,000 on private jets, limos and hotels. But the coup de gras may be that $2,000 that somebody approved for a staffer to entertain big GOP donors at a lesbian and bondage club in West Hollywood.
Will the Republicans finally smack down Steele and will he like it?
Joining me are Steve Kornacki, news editor and columnist at Salon.com and Stephanie Miller, host of the "Stephanie Miller Show". So what do you think?
STEPHANIE MILLER, HOST, "STEPHANIE MILLER SHOW": First of all, can I just correct you and I hate to do that, Valerie. It was not a lesbian bondage club. It was only simulated lesbian sex.
BERTINELLI: Oh, it`s ok because if they`re Republicans then wouldn`t be caught near any gay person.
MILLER: Look, thank you. But what kind of fiscal conservatism is that, Valerie? I mean, they didn`t even pay for real lesbian sex. I mean, it was stimulated, I didn`t even know there was such a niche by the way.
BERTINELLI: I didn`t either.
MILLER: It`s a lesbian -- simulated lesbian bondage sex club where I don`t women come out of the ceiling in nets or something.
BERTINELLI: But somebody paid for it and it was a Republican donor. How do you think they`re feeling about that?
STEVE KORNACKI, SALON.COM: Well, this is really the story, one of the stories of Michael Steele`s kind disastrous tenure as Republican Chairman. Every month or two, you know, some sort of story comes out about total mismanagement.
BERTINELLI: And he`s only have been running this thing for what, a little over a year?
KORNACKI: Over a year.
BERTINELLI: Yes.
KORNACKI: And he looks at -- boy, he`s got the Republicans now in a real tough position here. He looks at -- first of all, he says, well, you know what, in the one year for all of your complaints we won governors` elections in New Jersey and Virginia and races we hadn`t won in years.
BERTINELLI: Oh he`s taking credit for that.
KORNACKI: He`s taking credit but a lot of people say it`s in spite of him. But the real -- the real problem that Republicans have is they want to get him out. You know, I look at this and say -- they manage to find like basically the only black Republican in the United States and make him their party chairman.
And if you remember the election was a year ago when they elected him Republican Party Chairman. The second place candidate who was -- a margin of seven votes separated them, the second place could had been a member of an all-white country club until about three months before the vote.
So that was your alternative to having a black Republican chairman or a guy in an all-white country club.
(CROSSTALK)
BERTINELLI: -- because isn`t that the Republican Party?
KORNACKI: But they don`t -- you know, they don`t want you to know that, right? Isn`t they we`re going to say the Republican convention --
BERTINELLI: Yes.
KORNACKI: -- is like the NBA game. Everybody on the stage is black and everybody in the audience is white.
MILLER: Yes, that`s it Valerie. Steve is right. It solved the problem of trying and finding the one black person at the Republican convention. When they say anything that seems inclusive, then the cameraman has to pan wildly, looking for -- I think they usually just hire Martin Lawrence and he just puts on different wigs and stuff so it looks like a lot of different black people but it`s really the same one.
BERTINELLI: Oh, ok.
MILLER: I`m just saying. Maybe it was a way to get one black face at a Republican convention.
KORNACKI: Well, Martin Lawrence hasn`t been working in a while.
BERTINELLI: So but why -- why do they have to do this? Is it -- is it -- now, they do need --
KORNACKI: They --
BERTINELLI: -- first of all, maybe I need to go to this. Why is so much money being spent -- we`ll get off of that. And go -- why are they spending so much money? Why is so much money being spent with the RNC and the DNC? Why -- why does it have to be a politics of money? Why can`t we just hire the best candidate and see what they`re about? And not -- no more the R`s and D`s behind their names.
KORNACKI: Well, the interesting thing about Steele is, you know, yes, he`s spending a lot of money and both parties spend a lot of money.
BERTINELLI: Why?
KORNACKI: Steele has spent a lot of money not on elections.
BERTINELLI: Right.
MILLER: Right.
KORNACKI: And that`s the thing.
BERTINELLI: Well, didn`t they start, what $22 million last year and they are down to $10 million. Doesn`t anybody --
MILLER: Oh, I hope that they don`t fire him. Oh, please God don`t fire him. Because he is the worst fund-raiser ever --
BERTINELLI: Really?
MILLER: -- and he`s just a gaffe machine. He`s just -- I love that one of his supporters say, "We love his frankness."
BERTINELLI: He`s frank?
MILLER: Yes, I guess that`s a different word for being an ass cat -- yes, yes.
BERTINELLI: You can say ass cat here? This is going to be fun.
MILLER: Yes, you can because you`re a substitute teacher.
BERTINELLI: I love it. Ok.
So why would -- they`re spending all this money, correct? Why does Obama get dragged through the mud if he spends a lot of money?
KORNACKI: Well, he hasn`t spent any money at lesbian strip clubs that I know of yet.
BERTINELLI: Right.
KORNACKI: So it`s a different --
BERTINELLI: I don`t think you`ll be seeing that happening any time soon.
KORNACKI: Right, again the Republicans --
MILLER: Right. We can`t have health care, but we can afford apparently to buy --
BERTINELLI: Oh God forbid we should have health care and cover you know most of the country.
By the way, why do we call it health care coverage? I mean its health care coverage reform. I mean, this is about insurance companies and making sure that they actually cover people in this country. Not about -- we`re getting way off subject -- so sorry.
But let`s just turn to Karl Rove, because he`s a fun one to back slap. He was heckled at a book signing last night, shouted down and forced to leave the stage -- poor baby. Let`s watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look what you did, you outed a CIA officer, you lied to take us to war, you ruined the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERTINELLI: So was he just prone to heckling or is this just another example of how ugly things have gotten in this environment of anybody can say anything anytime?
MILLER: Can I just say one thing, Valerie. You know, in the wake of the health care, you know, the right wing tends to yell really either racist or homophobic or sexist things, or basically things that are barely comprehensible. They were just like -- whereas if you notice --
BERTINELLI: (INAUDIBLE) you`re slang, you have nothing.
MILLER: And you don`t even know what you`re being called.
BERTINELLI: Right, right.
MILLER: But -- what I`m saying is these -- if you listen to that tape, they were yelling really -- first of all they were yelling facts and they were very -- liberals are just a little smarter is all I`m saying. You`re a war criminal that participated in the outing of an undercover CIA agent.
BERTINELLI: Oh so she was telling the truth? Unlike the other, ok I get it yes.
MILLER: It`s a long -- it`s a long segment and it is true.
BERINELLI: It is true. He and Cheney.
KORNACKI: But there`s got to be -- there`s got to be -- and I`m not smart enough to come up with this but maybe somebody else can -- the guide to confronting somebody like Karl Rove in a setting like this and not looking insane. Because this actually plays in the Karl Rove --
MILLER: It really does unfortunately.
KORNACKI: She`s dressed all in pink, she`s got this giant pink peace sign earrings and Karl Rove can sit there and can be like I`m the reasonable one --
BERTINELLI: Right.
KORNACKI: -- just trying to exercise my first amendment rights.
BERTINELLI: And she looks afraid of the TEA baggers unfortunately.
KORNACKI: Right and to the average viewer, I think what she`s shouting about is incoherent even if there is a factual basis.
BERTINELLI: When you shout it is usually --
KORNACKI: There`s got to be a better -- I don`t know what it is, but there`s got to be a better way to do it.
BERTINELLI: I don`t know that anything is going to really happen to Karl Rove or Dick Cheney. I don`t see anything happening. For some reason he`s protected but you know, when a president gets a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) they are not protected and they can be impeached.
STEPHANIE MILLER, HOST, STEPHANIE MILLER SHOW: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I can`t say ass-cat? Ok.
BERTINELLI: I don`t understand the difference.
MILLER: You`re the host. All right.
BERTINELLI: For now, ok. Thanks guys. We will be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If the Dutch jerks that bought the store had half a brain, they`d make you the manager.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You could do this job.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You deserve this job.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you didn`t get in job, they hired some guy from England and he`s on his way up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What? Oh, no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got a new Christmas card.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERTINELLI: I miss that show. That was the very funny star of the classic sitcom "The Drew Carey Show", Kathy Kinney. She and her best friend Cindy Ratzlaff grew tired of that idea that youth equals beauty and that women over 40 are past their prime. So they wrote a book about it called "Queen of your Own Life: The grown-up women`s guide to claiming happiness and getting the life you deserve".
I am very pleased to welcome Kathy Kinney and Cindy Ratzlaff. Did I say that correctly?
CINDY RATZLAFF, CO-AUTHOR, "QUEEN OF YOUR OWN LIFE": You did, absolutely.
BERTINELLI: Ok. Good.
So how did the idea for this book come about to you guys?
KATHY KINNEY, CO-AUTHOR, "QUEEN OF YOUR OWN LIFE": I`m sure lots of authors have told you this, but my feet were hot. I went to the Web site to search for hot feet, and I found out that now I was at the midpoint of my life I was a crone. I spent the whole night thinking about that. I looked it up in the dictionary because I thought maybe I don`t know --
BERTINELLI: What`s the actual definition of crone?
KINNEY: Well, it`s exactly what you think. It`s a derogatory term. It`s from the French word carrion which means "dead flesh". And then here`s the nail in the coffin, "any woman over 40".
BERTINELLI: Get out.
KINNEY: True. And I was meeting Cindy the next day. We always do these kind of girlfriend renewal friendship get-away trips, and this one happened to be Prague. I know -- I`ll tell you about that.
BERTINELLI: Nice.
RATZLAFF: It`s a good life.
KINNEY: And I told her we`re crones.
RATZLAFF: Not surprisingly, I did not want to be one either.
BERTINELLI: No. So why are we thought of -- there`s no derogatory term like that for men over 40.
KINNEY: No.
RATZLAFF: No, there`s not.
BERTINELLI: Why is that?
KINNEY: Because it`s a patriarchal society.
RATZLAFF: That`s right.
KINNEY: Let`s change things.
BERTINELLI: Men are still in charge.
RATZLAFF: We know, we let them think they`re in charge.
KINNEY: So that`s it. We sort of want to change that.
We were sitting there in Prague looking over the Charles River. We looked up at the castle and we said if man is king of the castle, are we the crone in the corner? No, we said we want to be the queen -- the queen of our own life.
BERTINELLI: And so you wrote a book about it?
KINNEY: We did.
BERTINELLI: And you got -- how long did it take you to write it?
RATZLAFF: It took nine months to write the book.
KINNEY: Like birth.
BERTINELLI: Like birth.
RATZLAFF: And that`s exactly how it feels when you`re done.
BERTINELLI: Yes. Do you have some sort of ceremony that you do? A good excuse for a party?
RATZLAFF: We absolutely do. You know we started this -- there we were in Prague, and we were asking each other two questions. We really realized we`re at the beginning -- sort of the middle of our lives. And we started asking each other a couple of questions. And one of them was what do you want to banish from the first half of your life that no longer works for you.
BERTINELLI: Right. Good.
RATZLAFF: And what do you want to keep from the first half of your life that works for you well? In other words, what do you love about yourself?
BERTINELLI: Right. Very smart.
RATZLAFF: And they`re so simple.
BERTINELLI: Right. And when you verbalize them and say them out loud, it becomes more of a thing as opposed to just thinking about it. Well, you know, maybe if I didn`t do that or maybe if I -- yes.
KINNEY: We both realized that we wanted to banish the feeling that nobody liked us, that low self-esteem.
BERTINELLI: Oh, but it`s not true.
KINNEY: Of course not. Well, we liked each other a lot. We just wanted to banish wearing spiky high heels.
BERTINELLI: Oh, but I like that.
KINNEY: Well, they hurt.
RATZLAFF: Well, then you don`t have to banish that.
BERTINELLI: Ok. I`ll keep the high heels.
KINNEY: That`s just it. You know, we had this crowning ceremony, and when we left and we came home, we felt so empowered and we told all our friends about it and we all wanted the same thing.
BERTINELLI: Fabulous. Fabulous.
They`re calling me to wrap it up.
KINNEY: Wrap it up.
BERTINELLI: So thank you very much. Both of you.
RATZLAFF: Thank you.
BERTINELLI: The book is called "Queen of Your Own Life".
Kathy, when we come back, you`re going to stick around. What you could say about entertainment buzz that going on. I`m sorry it was so short.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERTINELLI: Pop singer Ricky Martin has finally came out of the closet as a fortunate homosexual man, which comes as a surprise to exactly nobody. And since I think it`s nobody`s business, I`m a little curious as to why he chose to come out now.
So back with me to discuss in the "Days Entertainment`s" news is actress and author Kathy Kinney and joining us also are Robert Verdi celebrity stylist and host of the "Robert Verdi" Show, staring Robert Verdi on Logo, and Joe Levy editor in chief of Maxim. Howdy.
Okay so listen Ricky`s people telling him not to come out because it was dangerous for his career. Do you think he was smart to do this?
ROBERT VERDI, CELEBRITY STYLIST: I do.
BERTINELLI: Yes.
VERDI: I do I think that the big problem is that we don`t have a community leader, that there`s no Martin Luther King or there is no Malcolm X.
BERTINELLI: Good point.
VERDI: There`s nobody there. There`s no Gloria Steinem for us -
BERTINELLI: Right.
VERDI: Who kind of leads the charge.
BERTINELLI: That almost desensitized - what we - we get desensitized to interracial marriage to women voting.
VERDI: We do.
BERTINELLI: We have to slowly desensitize ourselves to things that people are - some people in this country are uncomfortable with.
VERDI: Yes and I think it is important that there be a face to it. There`s some humanity to the struggle.
BERTINELLI: I agree.
VERDI: And I think it`s really important that he did it. The fact is we still face issues like with Prop 8 and all the marriage issues we face today.
BERTINELLI: Which should be -- I don`t understand like "The Don`t Ask Don`t Tell." They didn`t repeal that. They just said well, we won`t you know force you out if you happen to find out there is going to be stricter rules. But that`s crazy too. But --
VERDI: I`m not a fortunate homosexual, though. I`m an incredible fabulous one.
(LAUGHTER)
BERTINELLI: I would have to say I agree.
VERDI: I don`t want to be confused with the fortunate homosexual.
BERTINELLI: I love it. I love it. Ricky performed at George Bush`s inauguration.
VERDI: That means something completely different in a public bathroom, by the way.
BERTINELLI: Oh, my god. Oh my god. He was silent back then. I believe that all in one zone timing, but don`t you think this made a little more headway had he done it right before he performed?
VERDI: Yes and I don`t want to say what I just said previously. I don`t think that he`s necessarily a leader for the community. I think we don`t have a face -- we just don`t have a face out there leading the way. So it`s not that it`s shocking he came out of the closet, but it`s just evidence that we, as a group, are still suppressed and oppressed and scared of our own lives.
BERTINELLI: Yes that`s really too bad. And Joe and Kathy, you really have to shut up because you just have to compete --
JOE LEVY, EDITOR IN CHIEF, MAXIM: Well I don`t want to make light of this situation. I`m a fortunate homosexual. I`m taking this very, very serious. And I don`t want to make light of this situation. I think Ricky had to come out of the closet because he was lost. None of us knew where he was.
(CROSSTALK)
LEVY: No, no, literally, I think he was -- where was he? Was he in there?
BERTINELLI: Okay but maybe it had to do with - I do believe when people have children, they decide to be -- I can speak for myself. You just need to be a little bit more honest with your life and live more to who you are. And I think I like the idea that he came out because of his children. I think that`s --
VERDI: Did he order them from J Crew? Are those kids from J Crew?
BERTINELLI: Really, seriously you`re going there?
VERDI: Where do you get children?
KATHY KINNEY, CO-AUTHOR "QUEEN OF YOUR OWN LIFE": Why ever he came out I just think it is great I mean for whatever reason, because who would want to live like that?
BERTINELLI: In that kind of hiding.
KINNEY: In that kind of secrecy and hiding.
BERTINELLI: Right.
KINNEY: I mean everybody has a right.
BERTINELLI: Did you ever feel like he was hiding though? I mean he really lived a pretty --
LEVY: I think all over the world people said he was in.
BERTINELLI: Basically, right, which isn`t to make light of it either, again, because it`s his decision whether he wants to officially come out. I mean really --
LEVY: There is a ceremony for it.
VERDI: I mean he - serious, really?
BERTINELLI: There will be now.
VERDI: Yes, okay.
BERTINELLI: Yes, there will be now. There will be now.
VERDI: Like high school graduation. Can I just - can I just -
LEVY: Congratulations.
VERDI: Can I be the first to say I`m gay.
BERTINELLI: Oh, I`m so glad you told me.
VERDI: Yes, yes.
BERTINELLI: It help us. It helps.
VERDI: Did it clear the air for you?
BERTINELLI: A little bit.
VERDI: Turned me on a little bit, actually, is that wrong, wow.
LEVY: It turned me on a little bit.
BERTINELLI: Me, too.
VERDI: I had no idea.
BERTINELLI: OK, let`s change the subject, we are going down the wrong path. On "Dancing With The Stars" last night Kate Gosselin fought with her partner. What? And instruct her so much that well let`s just see for ourselves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATE GOSSELIN: You`re not hearing what I`m saying, and what I`m saying is --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard you all day.
GOSSELIN: I`m done. I`m done today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m always the nice guy. I`m done.
GOSSELIN: You don`t make arguments where there`s none.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERTINELLI: Oh, I did not see that coming.
KINNEY: That`s fighting? You call that fighting.
BERTINELLI: Yes really, she`s so not Italian.
VERDI: Is the Octomom baby-sitting for her while she`s dancing?
BERTINELLI: Right who is baby-sitting the kids, it certainly isn`t the dad because god knows he doesn`t have a job.
VERDI: Who did her weave?
(LAUGHTER)
BERTINELLI: I like it, you don`t like it?
VERDI: She`s kind of like Britney at 40-something.
BERTINELLI: Oh don`t - don`t.
KINNEY: You know it`s so hard to dance. They use to make us dance all the time on the "Drew Carey" show, and speaking as a nondancer who had the joy of editing, you know I mean when you are doing a dance like that. But --
BERTINELLI: That`s live.
KINNEY: I mean first you got all these kids and you have to dance. That has to be hard. But that didn`t seem really too harsh.
BERTINELLI: But doesn`t is it seem like they`re setting her up, because people think she`s a diva? You know b rhymes with witch and you know I guess I`m going to be on team Kate for a little bit, because it`s an expectation put in front of her. And she`s not necessarily - she might be difficult, but man, look what she has to go home to. I mean you know a deadbeat husband and all those kids to take care of. Am I wrong here? Join anybody what? No?
VERDI: I mean I think that the lowest common denominator theory here is everybody has a problem with Kate. And so it`s everybody or it`s Kate.
BERTINELLI: Oh well you know what? You might have a point, because there`s one factor that`s similar in all the people that have a problem, and it`s Kate.
LEVY: Yes you know watching that clip was like watching a couples session. I don`t think you`re hearing what I`m saying to you. That`s the way you teach. But this isn`t the way I learn. Are you kidding?
(LAUGHTER)
LEVY: That`s your dance instructor. Do what he says. Also this is a bad sign for her. A hot man wanted to put his hands on her and tell her what to do, and she said no. And this is bad for her future dating life.
BERTINELLI: Oh. Good point, good point. Okay I want to change the topic again. No, I don`t, because I don`t like this topic but we`re doing it anyway. OK Tiger Woods.
LEVY: I have women say that to me all the time, by the way.
(LAUGHTER)
BERTINELLI: His alleged what should we call her, she`s an alleged skank, allegedly, doesn`t mean she is a skank. She`s just allegedly a skank. She told FOX News that she plans to attending the Masters. She`ll also be dancing in a strip club nearby.
KINNEY: Me too.
(LAUGHTER)
LEVY: Oh I think I`m going to that show.
VERDI: I think she is confused -
BERTINELLI: Wait we are going to listen - one of the (inaudible) minutes us.
LEVY: This is the porn star, right? This is --
BERTINELLI: I don`t know which one we`re talking about there`s so many.
LEVY: Oh let`s ask the camera guys. This is the porn star, right? They`re nodding yes. This is the porn star, and she heard Masters and thought baiting came after it. She`s just like I`m there. I`m there. This is what I do.
KINNEY: You know it`s so sad that -- I guess she -- you know, they`re probably paying her a lot of money to come and dance there, examine if that`s how you get your 15 minutes --
LEVY: I think she`s looking for opportunity.
BERTINELLI: You know what I do believe in second changes. I do believe that Tiger Woods -- he deserves a second chance.
KINNEY: I do too.
BERTINELLI: I believe anybody, even she deserves a second chance. I don`t believe that your sins have to define you, and I do believe that you have a get out of jail card, you know, after you fall from grace.
VERDI: Second chance to be a porn star?
BERTINELLI: Second chance to make it up and not do what she`s doing. She`s making yet again more mistakes.
LEVY: Right.
BERTINELLI: But he`s trying to fix his life. And really all --
VERDI: Do you really think he is trying to fix his life?
BERTINELLI: I do, I totally think -
KINNEY: I do too.
BERTINELLI: I totally think he is trying to, and I think that marriage now he has come to realize is much more important. Look I`m talking about someone I don`t know. So really I --
VERDI: But you think that -
LEVY: You think his marriage is more important, so he`s playing golf? That`s what you`re saying? It doesn`t work like that for most men.
BERTINELLI: No, really?
LEVY: Not as far as I know. I think they`re supposed to stay home if their marriage is more important.
BERTINELLI: I think he`s making a concerted effort right now to make Elin and his children number one. And she doesn`t need to keep coming out and doing that - I mean what is the purpose in this?
VERDI: The teleprompted apology didn`t work for me. The whole -
BERTINELLI: I didn`t see it.
VERDI: The whole thing didn`t feel authentic -
BERTINELLI: Well I don`t think we deserve an apology, the only one that deserves an apology is Elin and the kids.
VERDI: No, I agree with you. I agree. I don`t think he had to come out and share that with us.
BERTINELLI: But yet he had to because -
VERDI: But if he is gay, he should. He should definitely share it.
LEVY: I`ve never heard that theory. Because -
VERDI: A lot of gay men have the nickname Tiger.
BERTINELLI: Oh do they?
VERDI: No.
BERTINELLI: OK.
VERDI: But yes.
BERTINELLI: Let`s just wrap this up, then. Tiger. Thanks everybody. Up next, trainer Bob Harper from the "Biggest Loser" stops by to talk fitness and hopefully give me some tips as I train for the Boston marathon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERTINELLI: On April 19th I`ll be running in my very first marathon, the Boston Marathon, god help me. And to be honest I`ve probably never trained harder in my life. But I`m running for a great cause, the Dana Farber Cancer Institute. And it is really worth it.
So can anyone just run a marathon. And if so, what is the proper way to prepare and how do you maintain what you`ve worked so hard to achieve? Here to talk about it are Bob Harper, the trainer from the "Biggest Loser". And supporter of British Filter for Good campaign author of "Hungry Girl 1, 2, 3" Lisa Lillien and model/actress Ali Landry who ran the Boston marathon. Ali, tell me about it, please. Tell me I`m not making a mistake.
ALI LANDRY, MODEL/ACTRESS (via telephone): OK, listen I was in the same exact situation as you. I did it for charity.
BERTINELLI: Yes but you are a youngin.
LANDRY: I`m not a runner. I run at a treadmill. I was a little -- listen, I thought one misconception, I really thought you know I`m running a marathon and I`m going to lose weight, it`s going to be great. Well the mistake was that someone told me I need to load up on carbs. I ate pasta every night and gained probably 10 pounds. I actually finished the marathon, which was great, but it was one of the hardest things I`ve ever done and I absolutely could not walk at all the next day.
BERTINELLI: Did you ice or anything after? Ice bath? I sit in any ice cold pool after I do long runs. The longest I`ve run is 15 1/2 miles. That`s probably - but you --
LANDRY: OK well you did better than me.
BERTINELLI: Oh really? How long did you train before the marathon?
LANDRY: The longest I ran was 12.
BERTINELLI: OK. So you did basically a half marathon.
LANDRY: I would say maybe eight weeks.
BERTINELLI: Oh god are you kidding me?
LANDRY: Yes. Half marathon and then went the distance.
BERTINELLI: Oh wow, good for you.
LANDRY: Oh I just have to tell you one funny story. One warning. Use the bathroom before you start the race, because I made a big mistake in the third mile I had to go. I was in line at a porta-potty. A nice lady said come into my home. So I thought that`s so nice. Of course I will. We go inside, I chit chat about how cute her drapes are, I had a crispy cream donut. By the time I came outside, everybody had passed and I was like one of the last stragglers in the back of the marathon. Don`t do that, Valerie. Don`t do that.
BERTINELLI: Ok I will pee before I start running. I will do that. I did that in the half marathon I did, I made sure I got it all out of me before I went. And I`ll hold it in man. I`ve been to junior high. I know how to hold it in.
LANDRY: Perfect.
BERTINELLI: So, Bob, am I making a big old mistake here? Four days before I turn 50, I`ll do this. And it is on my you know to do before I die list.
BOB HARPER, TRAINER, "THE BIGGEST LOSER": It`s on your bucket list.
BERTINELLI: Yes.
HARPER: OK so I guess that would be my first question, why is it you want to do it? That`s the reason.
BERTINELLI: Well it`s also to keep me -- to keep my physical activity going, to have a goal.
HARPER: I`m all about having goals. I mean trust me, I think that I`ve run through marathons before, and I think -
BERTINELLI: Wow.
HARPER: It`s one of the most challenging things you will ever do. And it`s very rewarding, but I think as we get older, I think we have to be really careful of how much stress we put on the body. It seems like you`re still being very active. You look unbelievable.
BERTINELLI: Thank you.
HARPER: So it is like do you need to run 26.2 miles to prove a point?
BERTINELLI: I think I do for myself, and obviously it`s for the Dana Farber you know -
HARPER: Right.
BERTINELLI: Which is a really, really great institute in Boston. You can go to my website Valeriebertinelli.com if you would like to donate, which I would appreciate. But I think more importantly it was probably to give me a goal so I would continue my activity.
HARPER: OK, all right.
BERTINELLI: I mean maybe it`s a little drastic to run 26 - 22 miles at the end of it.
HARPER: I think it`s dramatic. On our show, we definitely have our guys running marathons now for the past couple of seasons. So and I think it is funny that -
BERTINELLI: That`s crazy.
HARPER: When Ali was making the comment about make sure you go to the bathroom before, I`m going to want you to stay so hydrated through. These are the little tricks I would give you.
BERTINELLI: Oh please give me some, help me.
HARPER: You make sure that -- in regards to carb loading, I`m not a big fan of that. I don`t think it really works. I think it`s what you do to your body as you are running.
BERTINELLI: During the run, right? Which goes against anything I learned. Because when you have physical exercise, you`re trying to lose weight right, but to eat while you`re running? Yes, you have to.
HARPER: You never want to get hungry and thirsty. If you have to go to the bathroom, go to the bathroom because you`re going to be hydrated. You have to keep your body going. Every single mile there`s going to be water, there`s going to be Gatorade, which is going to be really important to keep your electrolytes up.
BERTINELLI: Gatorade is important too?
HARPER: Very important. Don`t just rely on drinking water and thinking that that`s going to be enough. You need the water, that`s going to be crucial. But you are also going to need to have your electrolytes replenished because you sweating so much.
BERTINELLI: Oh yes, I do sweat. It`s gross sometimes.
HARPER: And then like you are going to want something before like you know some people are having Power Bars or whatever the case may be, but then you are going to need it like probably around mile 10.
BERTINELLI: You know what I like? Are those kind bars. It`s dried fruit and nuts -
HARPER: Perfect.
BERTINELLI: And some of those with water, I found on my long runs I`ve been doing, when I eat those, those keep me going.
HARPER: Easily digestible. It`s a good source of complex carbohydrates for you. I think that`s really great. But I he can`t stress enough, make sure you drink. That`s why I`m so excited I work with BRITA and Filter For Good, because it`s like you know water is crucial for anything we do. It keeps your metabolism up and going, keeps your body functioning the way it needs to.
BERTINELLI: Right.
HARPER: Trust me that`s what you got to do.
BERTINELLI: Hydration, hydration, hydration.
HARPER: Absolutely.
BERTINELLI: What about - what should I be eating leading up? What do you think? To stay healthy?
LISA LILLIEN, HUNGRYGIRL.COM: Well the snacks that I love, I like 100 calorie packs of almonds. I love Fuji apples and I like jerky. Jerky is not a sexy snack, it`s not cool, it`s not hip. But it is good, it is high in protein.
BERTINELLI: Turkey jerky. Lots of sodium. I guess that would be a good idea for the marathon, no?
LILLIEN: Drink a lot of water.
BERTINELLI: No?
HARPER: You know, I think that you do -- you -- I`d rather you get you your electrolytes -- there`s something called electromix. These little packets that have a lot of potassium in it. A lot of magnesium.
BERTINELLI: Oh OK.
HARPER: That`s a good electrolyte replacement for you. I`m not a meat eater so when I hear turkey jerky, I`m like --
BERTINELLI: OK what about this study that just came out last week that women over 40 have to work out 60 minutes every day just to maintain their weight. Please tell me you don`t agree with that?
HARPER: I completely agree with it.
BERTINELLI: What?
HAPRER: It sucks.
BERTINELLI: But isn`t it 80 percent food.
HARPER: Beautiful Valerie Bertinelli looking beautiful about to turn 50. As we get older, we have to work out more to achieve the same results.
BERTINELLI: There`s something unfair about this.
HARPER: the metabolism changes. Our body chemistry changes. Everything changes.
BERTINELLI: That`s just to maintain your weight 60 minutes a day.
HARPER: To maintain.
LILLIEN: But 60 minutes of what?
BERTINELLI: Like how many calories do you think people should burn? 60 minutes? I`m running on the treadmill.
LILLIEN: Or walking.
BERTINELLI: I`m running.
HARPER: Right which is really great but I think that you do need to really watch your diet. Don`t just rely on working out, because let me tell you, you can eat your way out of every single exercise that you do.
BERTINELLI: Oh sure, sure, I plan not to gain a lot of weight on the marathon. Because I`m not -- you only up your calories is really about 300 calories.
HARPER: Right.
BERTINELLI: Is that right? That`s another thing.
HARPER: Right. I think and you make sure that those are 300 good calories, too.
BERTINELLI: Right like fruit, nuts, natural ingredients, preferably organic.
HARPER: (Inaudible) carbohydrates yes, all clean, all wholesome foods. You are not going to be gaining weight or anything like that.
BERTINELLI: Thank you very much - good, good, although you do gain a lot of water weight.
HARPER: But you are going to be sweating. Who cares about water weight.
BERTINELLI: Oh yes, who cares.
(LAUGHTER)
BERTINELLI: Then I can just -- I`ll just make sure to weigh in that weight. Bob, Ali, thank you very much. Lisa, stay right here. I want to hear about your fun, healthy recipes when we come back. Thank you so much for all your info.
HARPER: Happy to give it.
BERTINELLI: Ali thank you.
(Commercial Break)
BERTINELLI: I`m back with my guest, Lisa Lillien author of "Hungry Girl 1, 2, 3" and self-described foodologist. What is foodologist. What does that mea?
LILLIEN: I, you know what, I call myself a foodologist it`s just a fun little term I made up because I`m food obsessed --
BERTINELLI: Like many women. Then I`m a foodologist.
LILLIEN: You are total foodologist. You think about food, you dream about food, you plan your food. You love food -
BERTINELLI: I eat food in my dreams.
LILLIEN: A foodologist.
BERTINELLI: I do. But did you actually seriously take food to a lab and get it tested?
LILLIEN: I did. That`s how hungrygirl got all started.
BERTINELLI: Really.
LILLIEN: I had lost a bunch of weight and then I was eating these pastries in a local store in L.A. And I didn`t believe in the calorie counts, so like a maniac I got in my car to drove an hour to a lab.
BERTINELLI: How do you find a lab to do that?
LILLIEN: I can find anything anywhere. I paid a lot of money out of my pocket and found out that these pastries had twice as many calories as they were supposed to. And then I though now I need to share information like this with the world. And I launched hungrygirl as a daily e-mail service.
BERTINELLI: How long go?
LILLIEN: That was in 2004.
BERTINELLI: Wow and I`m just finding about you now?
LILLIEN: Where are you been?
BERTINELLI: So under a rock obviously. So your book says easy, healthy. What you mean easy?
LILLIEN: Easy. This is the third book. The last book was 200 under 200, that was 200 recipes -
BERTINELLI: 200 calories.
LILLIEN: 200 calories.
BERTINELLI: I`m so getting your book.
LILLIEN: And this one is just easy, easy, easy. This is like you know, one, two, three, as quick and easy as possible.
BERTINELLI: Every single one of those looks so delicious. Please tell me those are - how many calories?
LILLIEN: Most of the recipes are under 300 calories.
BERTINELLI: Holy crap.
LILLIEN: Many under 200 calories.
BERTINELLI: That`s great.
LILLIEN: And again, it`s like foil pack recipes. Microwave recipes.
BERTINELLI: What`s a foil pack recipe?
LILLIEN: Throw everything in foil and throw it in the oven. And then you have a delicious, gourmet seeming dinner.
BERTINELLI: No way. Is that in there?
LILLIEN: In there.
BERTINELLI: I`m so taking this book home with me.
LILLIEN: French toast, a whole chapter on French toast.
BERTINELLI: Jenny Craig has really good French toast. So I`m going to do the taste test.
LILLIEN: Do the taste test. There`s cannoli French toast--
BERTINELLI: So you make recipes in the microwave too.
LILLIEN: Yes.
BERTINELLI: And I heard cooking vegetables in the microwave is better than canned vegetables. Correct?
LILLIEN: That`s what they say. They change their tune every two minutes. It`s like boiling them does this. But microwaving them, is not bad. But my favorite thing in the microwave, because I love a hot breakfast, I love eggs.
BERTINELLI: Uh huh.
LILLIEN: But I don`t like cleaning pots and pans so I make egg scrambles in a mug. And that`s incredible?
BERTINELLI: What?
LILLIEN: Egg beaters, laughing cow light cheese, vegetables --
BERTINELLI: Is that in here?
LILLIEN: Yes.
BERTINELLI: I`m in heaven. Oh my god that sounds good. Now what is that you have in front of me? It`s making my mouth salivate.
LILLIEN: This I mean, vita tops are one of my favorite thing in the world. I don`t know if you know them.
BERTINELLI: Never heard.
LILLIEN: They`re all natural, they are low in calories, high in fiber.
BERTINELLI: High in fiber, that`s very, very important.
LILLIEN: High in fiber, the book has a section on couples. And one of my favorite couples is this little dessert duo. It`s slow churned ice cream with a vita top.
BERTINELLI: Is this ice cream in here?
LILLIEN: You should try it.
BERTINELLI: I`m going have one. Can I have one?
LILLIEN: You can.
BERTINELLI: How much is the ice cream?
LILLIEN: The whole thing is under 200 calories. So it`s very small amount of ice cream.
BERTINELLI: Oh my god. That`s really good.
(LAUGTHER)
LILLIEN: You know, these --
BERTINELLI: Oh my god, that`s really good.
LILLIEN: Less than 200 calories. We should have brought napkins.
BERTINELLI: No because I`ll just eat this all? Anybody, anybody, no seriously have some. These are great.
LILLIEN: You know what else you can do, do you know what a woopy pie is? Yes so you can slice these, put cool whip in the middle, freeze them, frozen woopy pies.
BERTINELLI: Oh my god, thank you so much. I`m so happy to have met you.
LILLIEN: It is all easy.
BERTINELLI: And everyone, be sure to tune in tonight to the "Tonight Show" with Jay Leno. Because they have a very special guest on this evening, the name is Joy Behar. Have fun, Joy. I love you. Good night, everybody. See you tomorrow.
END
