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Joy Behar Page
Madonna/Whore Complex?; RNC Staffers Jumping Ship; Jon Gosselin Sues for Custody
Aired April 07, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, it seems men want a whore in the bedroom and a chef in the kitchen. Incidentally I don`t recommend being a whore in the kitchen. You could burn your back on the stove.
Then, one high-profile staffer after another is jumping ship from the Republican National Committee while Michael Steele steers that ship aground. Is he the best thing to happen to the Democrats or what?
And Jon Gosselin says he`s better suited to be a parent than his ex-wife. The guy cheated on his wife with eight kids at home. All of a sudden he`s Gregory Peck in "To Kill a Mockingbird"? I don`t think so.
That and more, right now.
You know, Freud said that men who marry nice girls but have sex with bad girls suffer from the Madonna/whore complex. In the case of Jesse James and Tiger Woods, isn`t the Madonna/whore/whore/whore/whore/whore complex?
Here to talk about this are Jody "Babydol" Gibson, a former Hollywood Madam and the author of "Secrets of a Hollywood Super Madam"; and Lisa Taddeo, contributor for "New York Magazine" and also Cooper Lawrence, relationship expert and radio talk show host.
Welcome to the show.
Do Tiger and Jesse suffer from the Madonna/whore/whore/whore/whore complex?
COOPER LAWRENCE, RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: A lot of men do. I mean think about what it is. It`s men who the kind of women they have dirty, dirty sex with they would never marry and the kind of women they marry they will never have dirty, dirty sex with?
BEHAR: Why not? Why can`t you do both at the same time? I mean they should be able to at the same time.
LAWRENCE: No. They should be able to. And the women would be willing to. But I think you know, you`re talking about men that were raised either very proper, very religious, and I think religiosity has a lot to do with it.
BEHAR: You think so.
LAWRENCE: Oh, God yes.
BEHAR: Jody, let me ask you because you`re a madam. You would know the answer to some of these questions.
JODY "BABYDOL" GIBSON, FORMER HOLLYWOOD MADAM: Former madam.
BEHAR: A former madam, right. Well, that`s good enough for me.
GIBSON: Ok.
BEHAR: Do you think that -- what`s that -- let me ask you this. What`s the difference between Bill Clinton and Eliot Spitzer?
GIBSON: Well, I found that men that work in law enforcement usually think that they`re above the law. That`s a general viewpoint.
BEHAR: So Bill Clinton would have been above the law in his mind, that he would never get caught? Is that it? But he went for a local girl, though; a girl that he met in his travels. He didn`t pay for it. That`s the difference.
GIBSON: It really, I mean, the Madonna/whore complex is definitely alive and well and thriving in our sexually advanced society. With these instances I think it boils down to opportunity and accessibility.
For example, if you have a man who drives a regular Honda and has a 9:00 to 5:00 job and doesn`t live in the fancy-dancy mansion, obviously, he`s not going to have the playmates throwing themselves at him all day long. I`m not saying that that`s permission, but it just makes it harder to say no.
BEHAR: I see. All right.
GIBSON: It`s not an excuse. I`m not creating an excuse for them. I think they`re wrong. I think men are wrong for cheating when they`re married, period. They are, period. However --
BEHAR: But didn`t you accommodate some of those men when you were in the business?
GIBSON: I did, and I really -- I talk and write about that. I wrestled with that a lot. It was difficult.
BEHAR: You feel bad?
GIBSON: I do. I don`t promote that at all. I don`t think it`s right. Marriage is marriage. If you don`t want to be married, be with anybody you want and be single.
BEHAR: But it`s the oldest profession that you were in. Apparently there is a need and has been throughout history for your particular service. So I wouldn`t feel that guilty about it.
GIBSON: Thanks, Joy. I knew I liked you.
BEHAR: As long as men need to have that, there`s going to be hookers, you know.
Now let`s talk about your article in "New York Magazine" which I found very, very interesting. People should pick that up this week. It is all -- it`s about the world of celebrities like Tiger and nightclubs and about the hostess like Rachel Uchitel who served them.
Now describe what someone like Rachel, who was one of Tiger`s women, I don`t know exactly her role. Maybe you could explain that to me.
LISA TADDEO, CONTRIBUTOR, "NEW YORK MAGAZINE": Well, the roll of a VIP host or hostess is to once a whale -- a whale is a big spender at a club. Anyone --
BEHAR: A whale?
TADDEO: Yes. That`s what they`re called.
BEHAR: So Tiger would be a whale, right?
TADDEO: Yes, he`s a big whale. Celebrities are almost above -- they`re considered whales, too, but they`re even -- there`s like a higher echelon even than whales.
BEHAR: Ok.
TADDEO: And once someone like that comes into the club, you know, it`s someone -- a VIP host would be getting anything that they wanted throughout the night.
BEHAR: So that`s what Rachel did?
TADDEO: Yes. She would, you know, if somebody wanted to hear `80s music, she would take them to another club. Like there was a Saudi Arabian prince in my article that she took to another club because the club she was at wouldn`t play Billy Joel. So it`s stuff like that --
BEHAR: And how much did they pay for that particular service?
TADDEO: They don`t pay for that service. The club pays someone like Rachel and then, you know, they`ll just tip. Maybe they`ll tip Rachel, maybe they`ll tip the waitress.
GIBSON: Joy --
BEHAR: Just a second. Let me just -- go ahead. You want to jump in? Go ahead Jody.
GIBSON: Yes. There is, you know, it`s like saying that you went and bought a recipe book and made creme brulee and suddenly you`re a gourmet chef.
The operative word is responsibility. Although the girl did make meet-and-greets, she didn`t really take the same responsibilities as if she had actually been a madam, meaning the responsibility to the girl`s welfare, the responsibility to the client`s welfare and what he`s looking for. There`s really a big difference.
BEHAR: How is Rachel different from Jody?
TADDEO: I don`t think Rachel is --
BEHAR: Not the same?
TADDEO: No, no. Not at all. I mean I think --
GIBSON: Let me add one more thing, Joy. The legal distinction between a match-maker and a madam is discussions of sex, sexual proclivities and sexual preference. That`s what makes the real legal distinction between a matchmaker and a madam. A matchmaker doesn`t generally discuss sex.
BEHAR: Now in the article, you say that Rachel Uchitel made half a million dollars a year.
TADDEO: She made 250,000 as a base and then $250,000 was guaranteed in the tip pool.
BEHAR: That`s a lot to be -- to take somebody from one club to hear Billy Joel in another club.
TADDEO: Yes, but what it is -- it`s cultivating a relationship. So it`s sort of a worldwide network of bottle service.
BEHAR: Bottle service?
TADDEO: Yes. It`s --
BEHAR: To me bottle service is the maid delivering milk at my door. Go ahead. I`m listening.
TADDEO: So, you know, if you have a club in New York, you`ll have a pop-up of that club in the Hamptons. So you want to make sure that your celebrity, whomever they be -- say it`s George Clooney, if you take really good care of him at your club in Manhattan then he`ll come to your club in the Hamptons, in your Pop-up in Sundance and wherever else.
BEHAR: I see. So she would take care of these guys in that way.
TADDEO: Sort of like a VIP concierge across an entire world.
LAWRENCE: In an environment that you don`t paparazzi. That`s the thing. The celebrities go because they feel safe, they feel protected. I can flirt with these girls and I can cheat on my wife -- not cheat but, you know, flirt. And I`m not going to have paparazzis; there`s going to be nobody reporting this.
BEHAR: Yes. But wouldn`t you say then that Uchitel or a bottle girl like you described it, isn`t that a facilitator for cheating, for the guys to cheat eventually?
TADDEO: She`s a facilitator whatever you want, yes.
BEHAR: She`s a facilitator?
TADDEO: Yes, yes. Exactly.
BEHAR: Why do you use the world half a hooker? What does that mean?
TADDEO: The thing is it`s not -- what the bottle waitress is, what many of them do and what many of them told me that they do is not -- there`s no guarantee there. It`s not like, you know, you have a madam and you have a prostitute. The woman is not definitely going to sleep with you, and I think it`s almost more exciting in a way because there`s the thrill of the chase.
BEHAR: They may not.
TADDEO: With Tiger Woods, may not is kind of, you know --
BEHAR: I don`t think any of these skankettes played hard to get with him.
TADDEO: Right. But if it were someone else, they might. It`s the idea that I think Tiger liked the idea of sort of being a frat guy and being able to do what he maybe missed out on doing in college.
BEHAR: So these bottle girls facilitate that?
TADDEO: Right.
BEHAR: So they`re not exactly innocent?
TADDEO: No, they`re not. But they`re also -- there`s this mid-world. You know, this sort of like middle world that they kind of -- you don`t know for sure. You kind of know, but you don`t know for sure.
BEHAR: I see. All right. Well, that sort of explains it. Does that explain it to you?
LAWRENCE: Yes, a little bit. I mean, you know, half a hooker to me is just an underachiever. But I think that -- I think in these situations, this is a great example of what celebrity has become, right?
Now these girls realize they have an opportunity for fame. Just because you know somebody famous, now all of a sudden you can do it, too. Why do we know about these girls other than the fact that they see an opportunity? And now Rachel Uchitel, there`s a gold standard, $10 million. That`s how much get.
BEHAR: A lot of money.
LAWRENCE: You`re going to be seeing a lot more of this.
BEHAR: Jody, do you get it? Do you know the difference between an escort, a bottle girl, and a prostitute now?
GIBSON: Yes, I do actually. I think that any --
BEHAR: Can you explain it to me?
GIBSON: I`ll try.
I think that any girl that shows up for a job at work where she is -- it doesn`t matter whether she`s wheeling and dealing or waitressing or whatever she`s doing. If she`s showing up for that paycheck, 99 percent of the time she`s not going to be the same girl that`s going to escort. That`s a very big distinction.
Let me tell you another myth. The girls that are dancers, that`s very hard work to stand on your feet for six hours and dance. Those girls, a great majority of them are dancing because they don`t want the body contact. So it`s really a myth. It isn`t always what it seems on face value.
BEHAR: All right. Let`s go back to the Madonna/whore syndrome a little bit. What`s your take on that?
LAWRENCE: It`s a pop culture term. There really is no research that shows that men are into the Madonna/whore thing.
BEHAR: Are you sure there`s no research? It`s a Freudian term.
LAWRENCE: Right. Well, that`s people who follow Freud, and I`m not one of them. Freud`s theories have been disproven over and over, over the years so it`s not really the current thinking.
A lot of them have. It`s not really the current thinking. But the Madonna/whore thing is very real in the way that there are men who will not marry somebody they perceive that have loose morals.
And if you do something really dirty with your wife, you don`t want to be sitting there looking over the breakfast table at the mother of your children after you`ve done something that you perceive as you know, dirty sex.
So I think there are men that -- who struggle with that --
BEHAR: Why not? I don`t really understand why can`t you do that? If you want to swing from the chandeliers with your wife and then you want to go out for an Italian meal, why can`t you do that?
LAWRENCE: No -- and they should be.
BEHAR: I don`t really get that?
LAWRENCE: No, no, I mean, and women, everything is -- the women -- the women are willing. I mean, I don`t think, if you`re having trouble in your marriage and your husband says to you, I`m not going to go to a hooker and I want you to do the same the hooker will do for me, the woman will say yes, but a men would never ask.
There`s a lot of men that would never ask.
BEHAR: So are you saying then that the wife, it behooves the wife to start to act like more of a whore so that her husband will not go out with the -- with the -- prostitutes?
LAWRENCE: I think it`s important to have the conversation.
GIBSON: Yes.
BEHAR: Jody says yes.
LAWRENCE: Are there things -- are there things that you want to do --
GIBSON: I say yes.
LAWRENCE: -- that I`m not providing for you? It`s yes --
BEHAR: Go ahead, Jody. Like give us some tips.
GIBSON: I think -- I think the Madonna/whore complex like I said is alive and well and thriving in our sexually aggressive society. However, at the end of the day it does become our female cross to bear in the relationship. I don`t know --
BEHAR: How?
GIBSON: -- if it`s because once -- well, it seems that when you have a situation where the man -- you were -- hot and decadent and sleazy before you got married and then you get married and suddenly things change somewhat, it does begin to be the woman`s end. This isn`t fare, life isn`t always fair.
But it does seem to be our burden and our cross to bear to keep the love alive, keep the sex alive, keep the fantasies and then interests alive.
BEHAR: Right. And then now they have Viagra.
So we`re faking orgasms into our golden years at this point. What a nightmare.
Thanks, ladies very much. More in a bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW.
A new report says Jon Gosselin is broke and now wants Kate to start paying him.
And Joy breaks bread with the queen of southern cuisine, Paula Deen.
Now, back to Joy.
BEHAR: Well, since news broke out that the RNC spent a pretty penny at a bondage-themed nightclub, some heavy hitters have been leaving the committee including one top donor. Now even a top GOP strategist is saying Chairman Michael Steele needs to go. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX CASTELLANOS, GOP STRATEGIES: He`s lost the support a lot of our major donors. The donors who provide the money, the life blood, the oxygen that the Republican Party needs to succeed on this mission to take back control of the House.
Should we suffer through seven months as we are, or do we in fact need to make a change now? I think a change at this moment would be a good thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok, so will the pressure from inside finally force Steele out and do the Democrats really want that? That`s the point.
With me now is the lovely and talented Arianna Huffington, co- founder and managing editor of Huffington Post and the lovely and talented also Lizz Winstead, comedienne and co-creator of "The Daily Show".
Ok, so when will the pressure be too much for Steele to stay?
ARIANNA HUFFINGTON, CO-FOUNDER, HUFFINGTONPOST.COM: Well, probably never, because look at everything that has happened. You know what saves him? Is that 60 percent of the American people have never heard of the $2,000 being spent at the bondage club.
BEHAR: Really?
HUFFINGTON: Yes. So it`s not -- it hasn`t yet --
BEHAR: Why not?
HUFFINGTON: Because they`re struggling to make ends to meet.
BEHAR: Yes.
HUFFINGTON: They are trying --
LIZZ WINSTEAD, COMEDIAN: Jon Gosselin didn`t spend $2,000 --
BEHAR: Yes.
WINSTEAD: -- at a bondage club.
BEHAR: Tell me about it.
WINSTEAD: That`s why.
HUFFINGTON: It`s not a high priority. I suppose the Democrats, I mean, I`m sure the Democrats are very happy for Michael Steele to stay there indefinitely because it`s one disaster after another.
BEHAR: Yes.
HUFFINGTON: And whenever he says something true, remember about Rush Limbaugh, he says he`s incendiary and what he does is ugly, and then like within 48 hours he had withdrawn it.
BEHAR: I know, why are they so scared of Limbaugh? Why are they so scared of Limbaugh?
WINSTEAD: Because, you know, you should know this, Joy, being someone who`s on the news and I and Arianna. We sometimes get a point across because we can speak the truth stronger than a politician can. We happen to use facts, but with Rush, when he`s out there and he`s powerful and he - - and he speaks, there`s no one challenging him.
So it goes out into the ether as reality.
BEHAR: Yes but they give him a lot of juice. I mean, there`s 300 million people in this country, he has three million people listening to him a day. Why does he have so much clout, and why would he influence Michael Steele and the Republican Party? I don`t see it.
HUFFINGTON: Well, it`s not just Michael Steele, clearly everybody, you know everybody feels that they have to kowtow to Rush Limbaugh. And that`s kind of have -- has fed and his ego and he`s assumed alleged power.
BEHAR: Now, why -- but why is Steele still there? Is it --
WINSTEAD: Well --
BEHAR: -- is it because he says that he has a shorter -- a narrower margin because he`s African-American the way Obama does for making mistakes?
HUFFINGTON: I think it`s the other way around.
WINSTEAD: I think too.
HUFFINGTON: I think he`s about the only recognizable African- American in the Republican Party and it gives him a lot of protection. Because if they fire him, who is going to be left who is African-American to represent the Republican Party?
BEHAR: Why do they need an African-American at all?
HUFFINGTON: Well, they want to continue --
BEHAR: That it`s mostly white guys.
HUFFINGTON: -- pretending they`re a party of majority.
BEHAR: They`re not fooling anybody.
WINSTEAD: It`s also, too, the people that are being the recipients of these grand gestures are part of the team and the power structure that would decide whether or not he goes. We forget that in the wining and dining part of it, who is he taking?
He`s taking these people who are part of that structure. Are they going to want to get rid of him? I don`t know. They should get rid of him because he had to get lesbian re-enactors instead of real lesbians. I mean he`s like lame at that.
BEHAR: Really? That`s an interesting bullet point.
Next, the violent threats against politicians are on the rise. A man was charged yesterday with threatening to kill Washington Senator Patty Murray, a Democrat. And a new report today says a northern California man -- I don`t know if you know this -- has been arrested for making threatening calls to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Now, that is disturbing to me.
HUFFINGTON: What is really disturbing is there have always been wackos. There have always been crazies. What happens times of acute economic anxiety like right now, is that a lot of these crazies go mainstream and especially when you have mainstream politicians like Sarah Palin who put gun sites on their Web site.
BEHAR: Cross hairs.
HUFFINGTON: -- for 21 Democrats that she wants to challenge. And that is what legitimizes a lot of that craziness.
BEHAR: Yes, but why are they so upset about health coverage? Do they even know what`s in the bill, these people who are so angry about health care? I don`t get that either.
WINSTEAD: I don`t think it`s about health care. These things were going on at Palin rallies and McCain rallies in 2008.
BEHAR: What`s it about? What is it about? This rage from the right?
WINSTEAD: It`s about -- I cannot say it`s not about race. I do believe it is, but I also believe it`s people who are confused about what to do. Like they forget where we were during Bush and how we got to this place.
HUFFINGTON: But I also think there is legitimate anger. I`m not (INAUDIBLE) the bailout.
And if you scratch the surface, underneath health care is the anger at the unfairness of the bailout. The fact that Wall Street is doing so well and Main Street is suffering. That`s where the administration has to address that.
BEHAR: Ok. Hold that thought, ladies. Sit tight. We`ll continue this discussion after a short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Ok. Let`s talk Tea Parties. A new poll from Gallup/USA Today says that 1 in 4 Americans affiliates himself with the Tea party movement. So are these guys going mainstream or the GOP embraced them? I heard John Boehner was thinking about hanging a couple of tea bags from his hairpiece.
The Tea party sort of scares me a little bit, because it`s a potpourri of people I think, and yet there is a fringe group there that`s rather nasty.
HUFFINGTON: I think the Tea party movement has to be taken seriously, because it`s not just about the fringe. It`s about that underlying anger.
And I went back and read from history, and it`s fascinating. Every time there`s that economic anxiety and people are in trouble and there is downward mobility, what you saw in America. We`re so used to people doing better and better and their children doing better, you have that. You know, in the 1930s you actually had people being deported who were American citizens because they were of Hispanic background.
BEHAR: In the `30s?
HUFFINGTON: In the `30s. You know, under Herbert Hoover.
BEHAR: Remember what was happening in Europe at that time?
HUFFINGTON: What was happening in Europe, what was happening throughout American history? You had these moments, and that`s why it has to be taken seriously. It has to be addressed. What concerns me more than anything is what`s happening to the middle class. I mean what`s happening to people who are losing their homes, losing their jobs.
I was visiting --
BEHAR: But Arianna, when the President says he wants to help these people by helping them with mortgages or bailing them out in some way, other people like these Tea party people get very angry and resentful. If you`re going to help them with their house, what about my house? It causes a lot of resentment also. How do you fix that?
WINSTEAD: I think the media attention on the anger of the Tea party gets much more attention than the media attention of Obama speaking on how his program is going to work. Not to mention, he`s the professor-in-chief and then he goes on and on and on and it`s really hard.
But I do think, to Arianna`s point, people are angry and things are scary. People are losing their homes and real people are freaking out. I know we`ve all felt overwhelmed by our fears, so where do we go?
If you were to ask someone, do you believe that your terrified of the bailout and feel angry about bailout, they`d say yes.
BEHAR: I say yes.
WINSTEAD: Yes. But I think if you would ask that same people that said they identified, do you believe the President was born here and all this other stuff, they`d say I believe he was born here. I don`t believe all the other stuff. So I think it`s highly --
BEHAR: Do they need a Tea party on the left? Maybe we need a Tea party movement. Where are the --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Where are the protestors on the left.
HUFFINGTON: I think this is so beyond left and right. There`re independents there. There are Democrats disenchanted with Obama. They`re basically beyond the fringe, the wacky fringe. They`re people who feel government is no longer on their side.
Part of the anger at government is look at what government has done. You now have actual proof of the fact that government completely screwed up with the bailout. The real economy did not benefit from it.
BEHAR: Yes. One more question before we go. Did you see the Karl Rove book signing thing? Did you see where a woman came up to him with a pink hat or something? And she said to him you ruined our country.
HUFFINGTON: Code pink.
BEHAR: Yes. Code pink.
HUFFINGTON: What concerns right now is how can we do things that are effective? How can we do things that really make a difference in people`s lives, because people are hurting? We need to remember that and we need to put a spotlight on the people who are hurting.
BEHAR: I know but --
WINSTEAD: Here`s the deal.
BEHAR: Quick.
WINSTEAD: You need a costume for your movement, you probably don`t have a good message.
BEHAR: So you didn`t like that?
WINSTEAD: No.
BEHAR: Didn`t you think she had a point?
WINSTEAD: There`s a point and then there`s an attack.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you, ladies.
Up next, we`ve seen the Jesse James Nazi photo, but now a new report claims that picture is worth more than 1,000 words. Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: It hasn`t been a great couple of weeks for Sandra Bullock`s husband Jesse James. He`s been photographed in a Nazi outfit and accused of being a racist all this just because he rooted for the Von Trapps to get caught at the end of "The Sound of Music." Here with me to discuss this and so much more, comedian Michelle Collins managing editor of bestweekever.tv, is that it?
MICHELLE COLLINS, COMEDIAN: That`s it.
BEHAR: OK, Andy Borowitz of the borowitzreport.com and Natalie Thomas, deputy news editor of "US Weekly" a paper that you can actually touch, "US Weekly". So yes a lot of despicable things keep popping up about this guy. And so what do you -- anything new since we sat down.
NATALIE THOMAS, DEPUTY NEWS EDITOR, US WEEKLY: I`m not sure exactly, I have to check, very possible. He is back in rehab reportedly in Arizona. He was there for a moment, checked out, allegedly because he -- Sandra wasn`t taking his calls and he was very upset, so he thought he was doing it all for nothing.
BEHAR: He expects her to take his calls.
THOMAS: I guess so.
BEHAR: What a nerve.
THOMAS: He`s now back in rehab, she is still in pretty much in hiding, she`s in L.A., you know, keeping very low coverage and has seen a few friends but is really I think figuring out the next move in what to do. But we`re talking to tons of sources who say there`s absolutely no way she`ll be going back to him.
BEHAR: Well we have a photo of him in a Nazi helmet. Does that make you a Nazi or do you just look good in jack boots, you know, and a leather coat. I mean --
ANDY BOROWITZ, BOROWITZREPORT.COM: You know I just think that this whole thing was a regalia, the Nazi regalia this is like a public relations nightmare for Nazis, I mean just to be associated with Jesse James is the last thing you wanted at this junction. And I think --
BEHAR: Well "ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY" named him the most hated man in America.
THOMAS: Wow.
BEHAR: It`s the first time in nine years that Dick Cheney didn`t come in first.
(LAUGHTER)
BOROWITZ: Wow.
THOMAS: His Hitler photos were filed away.
BEHAR: Someone has to come to the defense. Do you have anything good about him?
THOMAS: Well you know what -
BEHAR: Besides, what was your -- you have something good to right, Andy? What was it?
BOROWITZ: Well no. I just think, you know, for a Nazi, I think he`s a good guy. I mean we have to keep him -- sort of compare him to other Nazis. I think he`s not bad for a Nazi.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I once so a documentary about Nazis. And they said Nazis thought Rudolph Hess was the worst Nazi. How bad was Rudolph Hess that Joseph Goebbels even thought that he was a bad Nazi. That`s what you sound like.
BOROWITZ: Exactly Rudolph Hess here, Jesse James here.
BEHAR: Yes, go ahead Michelle.
COLLINS: No I think one good thing about Jesse James according to the reports, he`s fabulous at sex tapes. He`s got a real creative eye.
BOROWITZ: He`s prolific.
COLLINS: Like prolific, he`s like the Ken Byrnes of the celebrity sex tapes really.
(LAUGHTER)
COLLINS: From what I`m reading it was like literally the poo-poo platter of what a celebrity can do in one of these things. And you know, is this like a surprise that he`s a Nazi, though? You never see Jews in the Hells Angels -
BEHAR: No.
COLLINS: Technically I think because Jews don`t believe in Hell`s Angels.
BEHAR: They don`t believe in hell.
COLLINS: Right.
BOROWITZ: We have not made as many sex tapes as we should by the way. We are playing catch up on that part --
COLLINS: You can`t even turn the camera on, you know. It`s over.
BOROWITZ: I know exactly.
BEHAR: All right Natalie let me ask you something, how clueless is Sandra Bullock in all of this? I mean, come on.
THOMAS: There are those that will argue she had to know something. Because the guy has a very troubled sorted of past, you know. He had been in juvenile detention as a kid, he had suffered you know alcohol problems, he was married to a porn star, he`s had problems and all this baggage.
BEHAR: The wedding marshes Deutschland, Deutschland. (Inaudible) It`s was a beautiful wedding.
COLLINS: It was a beautiful wedding. He had a swastika up on the wall.
BEHAR: I mean not for nothing, but she`s a nice girl. But you have to ask yourself at this point, did she know nothing, know nothing?
BOROWITZ: She has a history of making bad choices - she has a history of making bad choices. I don`t know if you saw that film she did with Hugh Grant -
BEHAR: Yes.
BOROWITZ: But that was another case -
BEHAR: Yes that was bad, OK, let`s move on to another fabulous couple, Jon and Kate Gosselin.
COLLINS: Love them.
BOROWITZ: Oh.
BEHAR: Jon has filed for custody of their eight kids is claiming Kate is spending too much of her time dancing. Now Jon Gosselin`s lawyer filed today asking for primary custody of the eight kids. Jon has been paying her $20,000 a month, but he doesn`t have a job now so he doesn`t have any money. So is this his way of getting out of paying the money by taking over the kids? I don`t get it.
BOROWITZ: Well that whole legal argument is not going to stand up because he is claiming she is spending too much time on dancing. I saw her on TV. She`s not dancing.
COLLINS: Do you know where the children are? Like it is hardly 11 kids are they going to see him -
BOROWITZ: I hope those children should go on craigslist and find new parents. That`s what they should be doing.
COLLINS: The best thing that happened to them is neither of them are raising them, really.
BOROWITZ: I feel bad for the Gosselins. What is the plural of Gosselins is it Geeselines?
COLLINS: Gosselins.
BEHAR: Gosselins, yes, so do you think he`s capable - you`re a father, do you think he is capable of raising the kids between naps? How is he going to do it?
BOROWITZ: Well, I just -- gosh, I think he`s a disaster. I mean I just feel so bad for the kids because it`s humiliating having this dad who is such a scum bag and a mom who is just such a terrible dancer. I think they`re going to have a lot to live down.
BEHAR: That`s true.
BOROWITZ: It`s really tough. I mean at least they`re not in Nazi regalia. That`s the one thing I can say for those two.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: They had a little brigade there.
BEHAR: No there`s no Nazi thing here.
BOROWITZ: There`s none?
BEHAR: Let`s not get them all mixed up.
BOROWITZ: All right, OK.
BEHAR: But can this guy Jon, does he have a career? What was his career? He wants to recycle --
THOMAS: He an I.T. guy previously.
BEHAR: A what?
THOMAS: An I.T., you know, internet technology.
COLLINS: Computer.
THOMAS: Yes.
BOROWITZ: Interesting. I didn`t know that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well he has skill.
THOMAS: But now he`s obsolete because -- well he had a skill back in the day but this has been years and years. Obviously he`s out of touch.
BOROWITZ: Everything he use to do is now done by an Iphone App to give you an idea.
THOMAS: Exactly.
BOROWITZ: He`s totally rendered up.
BEHAR: So can he get -
THOMAS: A boss who said that even you know years ago he was a terrible I.T. person, so I don`t think he has a chance in going into the real work force.
COLLINS: He makes a fantastic Ed Hardy Model. I see a real future for being like the a-hole who models you know Tiger, high fiving Tiger dragones.
BOROWITZ: You know what else I think he could do, I think he could be the guy in those home security ads who kicks down the door.
COLLINS: Yes.
BOROWITZ: I think that`s - I can see that role for him.
COLLINS: I don`t know if he can kick a door down. He`s a weakling, he`s so weak.
BEHAR: Now they throw of Buzz Aldrin. I thought that was ageist, the poor guy. I mean he`s an astronaut. Keep him on. And do you think that show is rigged? That they are keeping Kate Gosselin there?
BOROWITZ: There`s such a consistent -
BEHAR: Well there`s suppose to be the audience that votes, remember that -
BOROWITZ: Lots of consistent anti-astronaut bias on that show. No astronaut has made it to the finals, final.
BEHAR: That`s true, I would like into that.
OK former "DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES" actress Nicolette Sheridan is suing her former show for $20 million she says the show`s creative Mark Cherry slapped her on the face on the set. OK do you know anything Natalie about this?
THOMAS: We know that he has spoken to a lot of people on the show and sources there. And we know that he`s known to be this erratic, you know, emotional, crazy kind of person. Whether or not he slapped her or not, it remains to be seen. There are plenty of people who say that it didn`t happen. There are others who said that it easily could have happened, remains to be seen.
BEHAR: Well, I read in the Enquirer, my paper of record, that he was showing her how to do a slap in a sense. That`s possible.
BOROWITZ: It`s method slapping.
BEHAR: Well you know it is because when you -- do you ever do that? You`re supposed to come up to the face and not hit the person.
COLLINS: 10 million right there. Lawsuit in the bag.
BEHAR: And then they put the sound effect.
COLLINS: Here`s my question, Mark Cherry he is a homosexual. I need to know what kind of a slap we are talking about, is this a real zest slap, or was he challenging her to a duel, you know what I mean? Like how intense, Andy?
BEHAR: But you know, go ahead.
BOROWITZ: You know Liza Minnelli and David Guest.
THOMAS: She was written off the show.
COLLINS: No.
THOMAS: But that isn`t the question as is the case of sour grapes. Because you know why is she filing now if this happened in 2008.
BOROWITZ: The part of that story that shocked me is "DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES" is still on the air. I didn`t know that.
BEHAR: Why? It`s a hit still.
COLLINS: I love it.
BEHAR: It is still a hit - yes. And it is suppose to --
BOROWITZ: Is it still a hit? I`m going to watch it now for the violence. I didn`t know it was the violent show.
BEHAR: You know you created the "FRESH PRINCE OF BEL-AIR" , which I did not know --
BOROWITZ: That`s true.
BEHAR: About you -
BOROWITZ: That`s true.
BEHAR: It must have been when you were in-
BOROWITZ: Oh I was just a baby -
BEHAR: Yes. Did you ever slap Will Smith.
BOROWITZ: You know I never slipped him, but I had to like teach him a lot about -- I told him about my childhood growing up in West Philadelphia and you know where I was born and raised. And I would rap a lot to him so I guess that`s the closest -- no slapping but rapping. I mean that`s the closest we got --
COLLINS: All is work, absolutely.
BEHAR: OK now, the cast members are all supporting -- the reports say that cast members all support Nicolette Sheridan and have had enough of Mark Cherry`s antics yet they are keeping their mouths shut. Now if that`s true, the obvious question is, why won`t they talk? The obvious answer is they need their job.
THOMAS: Absolutely.
BEHAR: So.
THOMAS: They`re not looking to get written off anytime soon. A lot of these women are in their 40s. We know that it`s a touchy issue in Hollywood. And they`re smart. They don`t want to lose their job.
BEHAR: So could this be a revenge lawsuit that Nicolette is trying to do here. Is it revenge because he threw her off the show, of course he has the right to write her off. I mean he is the creator of the show.
THOMAS: Absolutely.
COLLINS: Is she still with Michael Bolton? This is more my concern? Did they break up?
BEHAR: No, they broke up.
COLLINS: That`s hard -
(CROSSTALK)
BOROWITZ: -- no more.
BEHAR: No I`m a wreck over it, too. Thanks everyone. Up next, the queen of southern cuisine stops by . You know who she is. Paula, don`t go anywhere.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAULA DEEN, FOOD NETWORK STAR: What I`m fixing to do is fry up the lady and sons macaroni and cheese. I`m going to wrap it in bacon, and we`re going to deep fry it. So here goes, you all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Oh, yes. Whether it`s whipping up delicious artery clogging dishing on the "FOOD NETWORK" or decorating her home with irresistible southern flair, Paula Deen is loved by her fans. Her new book, "Savannah Style" is a love letter to a adopted home town and is full of tips about how to find inspiration in your own home. I`m thrilled to welcome back to my show, the lovely, beautiful, wonderful, Paula Deen. We love you Paula.
DEEN: Joy you`re so sweet. I love you all. Hello to everybody out there.
BEHAR: So first there`s bacon and then there`s frying on top of the bacon.
DEEN: Yes and you have got to have a pretty place to fry up this bacon.
BEHAR: Really?
DEEN: Yes, isn`t that important?
BEHAR: How about -
DEEN: Don`t you want a pretty kitchen for your bacon?
BEHAR: No you know where you should put that - in the doctor`s office. OK.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK so -
DEEN: I think some of the doctors say I`m in cahoots with them, but you know, I try to tell everybody, don`t do this three times a day, you all. You know once in a while, moderation.
BEHAR: Once a year, maybe once a month. Maybe once a month.
DEEN: Well, you know, like the crispy cream bread pudding recipe, I say, once per lifetime. Once per lifetime.
BEHAR: Yes, all right.
DEEN: Well, and maybe that doughnut that I`ve used a bead for my cheeseburger, that maybe a one --
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But you don`t gain that much weight from all your food. You`re normal-looking.
DEEN: Well, thank you.
BEHAR: You`re not fat.
DEEN: Yes, I`m so fat right here.
BEHAR: No you are not.
DEEN: Like I`m swollen right here.
BEHAR: No you`re not but you don`t eat that food all the time, right?
DEEN: No, no.
BEHAR: OK, and you don`t recommend that?
DEEN: I do eat good, but no I don`t eat fried chicken biscuits and gravy every meal. Absolutely not, I don`t.
BEHAR: Right, right.
DEEN: And everything is moderation. In order to have a full, beautiful life, don`t you have to taste everything?
BEHAR: Yes, you do.
DEEN: I mean you have to take risks. There are no guarantees and a truck may hit me when I leave here. And I don`t want a damn piece of lettuce leaf falling out of my mouth.
BEHAR: Right.
DEEN: You know should I get hit by that truck. I had a potato.
BEHAR: That would ruin your reputation.
DEEN: Yes that would ruin my reputation. I want a potato to pop out.
BEHAR: I mean OK but this book is not about cooking, this book is about decorating -
DEEN: No, no, no.
BEHAR: And it`s just beautiful.
DEEN: Thank you.
BEHAR: Tell me just briefly what "Savannah Style" is.
DEEN: Thank you, thank you Joy, "Savannah Style" is so many things. Have you ever been to Savannah?
BEHAR: No, but I was just telling someone I`ve been to Charleston. Isn`t that similar?
DEEN: You know I have given -- we`re sister cities. They`re the ugly sister, we`re the pretty sister. No, I`m kidding -- that`s just a running joke between Savannah and Charleston.
BEHAR: Oh that`s a riot.
(LAUGHTER)
DEEN: Isn`t that funny?
BEHAR: That`s so funny.
(LAUGHTER)
DEEN: I knew you`d love it.
BEHAR: Anyway, go ahead.
DEEN: But Savannah, you know, I`ve extended an invitation to you.
BEHAR: I know you have. You really do mean it.
DEEN: And I absolutely mean -- I never say anything I don`t mean most of the time. But --
BEHAR: But you say in the book that you have couches in the kitchen.
DEEN: I have what?
BEHAR: Couches in the kitchen.
DEEN: Yes. Yes.
BEHAR: Is that for like --
DEEN: In my other kitchen I did. Michael and I recently --
BEHAR: Your husband?
DEEN: My husband Michael and I built this house right before we were married and we got in it quickly outgrew it. So we built about a mile down the road. So the pictures of the new house are not in here, except for this.
BEHAR: Yes.
DEEN: This is the entryway to one of the --
BEHAR: Right and the whole thing is written about your partner, Brandon Branch who described himself as your bitch.
DEEN: He is, you all. He is. He is the most wonderful young man, and he is so talented. His taste is impeccable, Joy.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
DEEN: If he blesses something, then I know it`s right. And he`s here with me today. He`s in the green room. There he is right there.
BEHAR: Oh there he is.
DEEN: Oh he was drunk, Kathy Griffin came to spend the night with me. And the only way Brandy could get it on camera was to get drunk. So God love him. He`d had a few gin and tonics.
BEHAR: Yes, I see that.
DEEN: But he`s good -
BEHAR: Why does he look like he`s in a line-up?
DEEN: Well I`ll tell you what, he was on the "TODAY" show with me today -
BEHAR: Oh yes.
DEEN: And he did beautifully. I`m so proud of him. But anyway, this is mine and Brandon`s project, and we had some wonderful teammates to work with us on. But to tell you a little bit about Savannah, when I go off from home and I try to describe her, the word that comes to my mind always is, magical. She is magical. She`s intriguing, she can be a little on the wicked side. She`s eclectic, she`s eccentric.
BEHAR: Really?
DEEN: And we have everything there -
BEHAR: I feel that way about Newark.
(LAUGHTER)
DEEN: Newark, New Jersey?
BEHAR: Yes. Magical.
(LAUGHTER)
DEEN: That was real funny, too.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Oh, we`re killing over here. Go ahead.
DEEN: Oh it`s killing.
BEHAR: So it`s magical, but you always want to live there for the rest of your life?
DEEN: Absolutely the rest of my life. I`ve been there 21 or 22 years, and she -- and I refer to her as a she. But she`s got education, she`s got -- she`s got the history, she`s got the beaches. We`ve got the river downtown. She was the only town in America to be built on a grid of squares.
BEHAR: Oh, really?
DEEN: And she has like 23 squares that are just incredible with the oak trees and the hanging moss.
BEHAR: Yes. It`s beautiful.
DEEN: She`s very romantical -
BEHAR: Yes when you look through this book, although I did find a page on taxidermy -
DEEN: Yes.
BEHAR: Why would anyone in Savannah want to stuff an animal?
DEEN: Well see down in the South, Joy, hunting is a big deal.
BEHAR: Yes.
DEEN: And some people love taxidermy, and you`re going to find those in a man`s library or at hunting lodges that are out in the country.
BEHAR: But you wouldn`t do that?
DEEN: No. No.
BEHAR: I see you have like five or six dogs. You wouldn`t stuff the dogs?
DEEN: No. Although I don`t want to think about losing them because a couple of them are getting old. I have cats and dogs and to me that`s so important in order to make a house a home. I have to have heartbeats in it, and that`s my dogs, my cats, my birds, my fish, my husband.
BEHAR: Would you ever stuff Michael? No, I don`t think so.
DEEN: I stuff him almost every night that I`m home.
BEHAR: With your food, I know.
BEHAR: OK Paula, don`t go anywhere. We`ll be right back. I have Twitter questions for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my favorite southern belle, Paula Deen, you all. I have Twitter questions for you.
DEEN: I would love Twitter questions.
BEHAR: OK, here`s a good one. If you could eat only one thing for the rest of your life --
DEEN: A potato.
BEHAR: OK, check. I agree with that. I think French fries, deep and crispy would be my food with ketchup.
DEEN: You can do anything with a potato, you can fry it, you can boil it - you can --
BEHAR: Saute it. You can mash it.
DEEN: Look I was about to say it. Like, you saute it.
BEHAR: You can scallop it.
DEEN: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s the greatest.
DEEN: bake it.
BEHAR: OK if you could cook for anyone in the world who would it be?
DEEN: Living or dead?
BEHAR: It depends on how much you want to cook for them, if they are dead I don`t know if that would --
DEEN: My parents.
BEHAR: What your parents?
DEEN: My parents, I lost them so young.
BEHAR: Oh your parents well is there one thing you haven`t yet done that you would love to?
DEEN: There`s so much more I want to do out there. Because I started so late --
BEHAR: Well now you`re an interior designer, a fabulous chef.
DEEN: Yes, thank you.
BEHAR: I mean you have those skills pretty much down.
DEEN: I would probably like to go on a murder scene.
BEHAR: A murder scene?
DEEN: Forensics interest me very much.
BEHAR: Really?
DEEN: And maybe solve a murder.
BEHAR: Maybe you should move up here. OK. OK. Let`s see. If Paula Deen really ate food the way she cooks it she`d be as big as a barn. Which is you know - so what`s a real typical meal for Paula?
DEEN: Well, Easter Sunday I had family and a bunch of friends over, and I baked a ham. I had beer in the rear chicken. Well no I just did roasted --
BEHAR: Beer in the rear? What is that? Beer in the rear?
DEEN: Well where you sit the chick on the beer and roast it.
BEHAR: Oh beer in the rear.
DEEN: But I didn`t put the beer on them. Let`s see I had squash casserole, sweet potato yams, collard greens, rutabagas from my garden which were fabulous. Potato salad.
BEHAR: All right everyone is dying to eat now in this room. We`re all, like, sitting here like hypnotized.
DEEN: That was more. Usually a typical meal I will prepare a meat, a starch and a vegetable.
BEHAR: That`s right.
DEEN: If it`s just me and Michael.
BEHAR: Yes, that`s right. OK. She always has a smile on, someone says. What`s the secret? And does she ever lose her temper? What makes you mad?
DEEN: You know what, I`m very -- it`s hard to make me mad these days. I spent so much time fighting in my first marriage and the first part of my life, losing my mother and daddy so young, I fought with the demons inside of me. And then like I said, in the marriage we fought a good bit. So I don`t fight anymore.
BEHAR: No, no, no.
DEEN: I mean I really choose my battles, Joy, and you have to -- you have to go far to make me mad. And --
BEHAR: But what would really tick you off?
DEEN: And my smile --
BEHAR: Anything?
DEEN: It would probably have something to do with my children.
BEHAR: Oh, that`s right. That makes everybody mad.
DEEN: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: When they`re nasty against your kids.
DEEN: You know I can almost turn my cheek to most things. Unless you mess with my children.
BEHAR: Well we got to go. It was so --
DEEN: No! I just got here, damn-it.
BEHAR: It`s true. It`s true. It just flies by. We could go on and on. Every food that comes out of your mouth we`re listening to.
DEEN: You`ve got to come to Savannah so we can kick back.
BEHAR: Can I bring everyone in this room?
DEEN: How many is here? Absolutely. You all come on.
BEHAR: It`s wonderful to see you again. Thanks so much.
DEEN: It`s always delightful to be in your presence.
BEHAR: The book is called "The Savannah Style." good night, everybody, buy this book.
END
