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Joy Behar Page
Biography of Oprah Hits Stores Tomorrow; Palintology; Tea Party Time; Conan Goes to TBS
Aired April 12, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, author Kitty Kelley`s new tell-all about Oprah Winfrey hits stores tomorrow. I have a feeling someone`s not going to make it into Oprah`s Book Club.
Then Sarah Palin blasts President Obama`s nuclear power plan. Personally I would take her more seriously if she could pronounce the word "nuclear".
And a child is sent back to Russia after his adoptive mother claims he`s a danger to the family. Can you actually return a family member? And if so, when does Sandra Bullock return her husband.
That and more, right now.
She has taken on Sinatra, the Bushes and Jackie O. Now Kitty Kelley sets her jaundiced eye on Oprah. And while Kelley has never been successfully sued for libel, how much of her books are true? Well, I`ll let you know later.
And you can believe every word that comes out of my mouth. Just ask my husband, George Clooney.
Here to discuss this are Rachael Sklar, editor-at-large for mediaite.com; Michael Musto, "Village Voice" columnist and blogger of dailymusto.com; and Bonnie Fuller, president and editor-in-chief of hollywoodlife.com. Bonnie.com is in the (INAUDIBLE)
Bonnie, should Oprah be worried about anything that`s in this book?
BONNIE FULLER, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: I think she should be worried that apparently Kitty Kelley knows who her real biological father is but she doesn`t know. Her mother has been keeping it with her -- keeping it from her all her life and apparently she told Kitty and now they won`t tell her.
BEHAR: So the mother has told Kitty Kelley but Oprah doesn`t know?
FULLER: That`s right.
BEHAR: Why would the mother tell Kitty Kelley and not her daughter? The mother is beholden to Oprah; she sends her a lot of money and --
FULLER: That`s right. Apparently she sends her a car, she has a driver. She sends her fancy clothes. However, she won`t give her mother her own phone number.
BEHAR: Yes. I read that.
FULLER: Maybe that`s why her mother won`t tell her who her biological father is.
RACHEL SKLAR, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, MEDIAITE.COM: It`s not very health -- it`s not health at all --
MICHAEL MUSTO, COLUMNIST, "VILLAGE VOICE": Joy, I have this kind of scoop in my column every week. I know something but I`m not going to tell you. Should I make a book out of that? That`s not much of an item is it?
BEHAR: I know.
MUSTO: Her other big item is that Oprah is really secretive.
BEHAR: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: She loves Ding Dongs.
MUSTO: At least if she put the name of the father Oprah would have bought the book to find out.
BEHAR: Well, she doesn`t really tell you anything we didn`t know. That she had an affair with John Tesch. I think --
FULLER: You know that?
MUSTO: I didn`t know that.
SKLAR: That was a big secret.
MUSTO: I knew it, but I didn`t know he walked out in the middle.
BEHAR: That`s what she said, John Tesch walked out because he couldn`t handle the black and white situation.
FULLER: Yes, I thought that was a big shocker. Now what wasn`t a shocker was the fact that apparently she once was so hungry or stressed that she ordered two whole pecan pies for room service and ate them all.
SKLAR: I don`t know why people are so surprised by that.
BEHAR: Why? Have you done that?
(CROSSTALK)
SKLAR: You know, you get hungry sometimes, that`s all I`m saying.
BEHAR: Two pies? I don`t know, who even knows if that`s true. Anybody could say anything. Right?
MUSTO: Well, that`s in the pecan section of the book there. You learn a lot about Oprah.
BEHAR: Kitty Kelley herself -- I know -- she likes Ding Dongs.
(CROSSTALK)
SKLAR: News flash, she`s a woman and she likes to eat. Wow. So what else is in that like giant book?
BEHAR: The big thing about Oprah has always been is she gay? That is not discussed -- it`s discussed but it`s not proven in any shape or form.
MUSTO: They have yet to find the bowl of potpourri. You know what, Kitty comes to the conclusion that there`s no foundation to the lesbian rumor. So I guess Oprah and Gail are just two women who love each other, they see each other all the time and they have sex. That doesn`t make them lesbians.
SKLAR: Just to be clear, that`s not in the book.
FULLER: No.
BEHAR: That`s not in the book and nobody in this group is saying and he`s kidding. Go ahead.
FULLER: She really came to the conclusion that Oprah is asexual. That she`s so focused on her career, which I think again, is not a shocker. But I think what`s not really laid to rest is what is the foundation of the relationship with Steadman? Why is he waiting around for an asexual to not marry. I mean, they date --
(CROSSTALK)
SKLAR: Let`s think for a moment about Kitty Kelley`s sources. Like, way more people would not talk to her than would talk to her. So take a grain of salt with her conclusions that she draws.
BEHAR: But you know, just FYI, Kitty Kelley never lost a libel suit and has never been forced to make a retraction.
MUSTO: Neither have I, Joy but that doesn`t mean I`m right all the time.
BEHAR: I know but --
When she wrote the book about Nancy Reagan -- remember back in the day -- Ronald Reagan was very upset and he wanted her to refute every detail in that book and he was told to not do that because that even makes the situation worse.
MUSTO: It validates the book and Oprah is taking the high road and just saying, "I`m not even going to addressing this." That`s actually very smart. Reagan looked like, "Nancy didn`t re-gift a teddy bear, it was a Barbie doll." I mean come on. Who cares?
BEHAR: Yes. Well, who cares?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, at the end of the day, we all know that Nancy Reagan and Ronald consulted an astrologer on basic things that have to do with the country. We know that she had two sets of dishes, which I never knew she was kosher. Remember that?
MUSTO: I know, it`s part of the public consciousness forever, but if you fight back it becomes even more part of the public conscience.
(CROSSTALK)
SKLAR: That`s major impact. There you go. We`re talking about a book that she published like a decade and a half ago.
BEHAR: Yes. Amazing memory.
FULLER: Millions and millions of women tune in to Oprah every day. I think she`s got to be the richest self-made woman in the world. I think that she`s absolutely deserving of a biography like this or a non- authorized biography because we do want to know more about this woman.
I think it`s also fascinating the relationship or the dysfunctional relationship she has with her father that Kitty Kelley points out here. He did not have kind things to say about her.
BEHAR: Not at all. He`s a real loose cannon, this guy.
FULLER: He said that she took a different road from Jesus.
BEHAR: Yes, well --
SKLAR: He`s come out before and spoken about her, unauthorizedly.
BEHAR: He said, "It disappoints me that she`s changed over the years. She`s become too close to that woman Gail. And she no longer believed in Jesus Christ as her savior. That`s just not how I raised her."
SKLAR: He didn`t raise her to be like a successful self-made woman who gives oodles of money to charity? Oh.
BEHAR: Pretty good.
And also Vernon also said that Gail is nothing but a street heifer. What does that mean exactly?
SKLAR: Yes. Exactly. Surprising.
BEHAR: He`s nasty.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I think he`s jealous. She`s maybe admired by the world but I know the truth and so does God and so does Oprah. I mean he`s jealous I think.
MUSTO: But at least Kitty puts his name instead of saying -- I`m not going to say who the stepfather is.
BEHAR: Yes. Most of this book is just --
MUSTO: The people in this book have an agenda, even this woman who knows who the father is.
FULLER: That`s her mother.
BEHAR: That`s her mother. This woman --
MUSTO: The woman -- no, no, there`s an 81-year-old grand relative --
BEHAR: Katherine Carr Esters (ph) and an 81-year-old cousin.
MUSTO: She`s bitter that Oprah wouldn`t promote her memoirs. So she has an ax to grind.
BEHAR: She`s bitter that what?
MUSTO: Oprah would not promote her memoir on her show.
BEHAR: This woman?
MUSTO: Yes.
BEHAR: Oh, I see.
MUSTO: So everybody here has something up their sleeve.
BEHAR: She also -- this woman also disputes the fact that Oprah claims that she was sexually molested as a teenager. But no one believes her, she`s making it up.
SKLAR: I believe Oprah.
BEHAR: I believe when a young person says that, I believe it.
SKLAR: I know, right? What that woman says is that now that she`s rich and powerful, no one will contradict her. I think that`s terrible. Oh, wow, big shock. A young girl claims she`s molested. And someone in the family is doubting it.
FULLER: But I do think it is sad that no matter how successful Oprah is that she`s not close to those who are her closest family members. Her mother, who is keeping a major secret from her -- I think that`s devastating.
SKLAR: I think it`s wonderful she`s close with people like Gail, frankly.
BEHAR: She has Gail and Steadman, who are very close friends of her.
FULLER: But is it because she`s put the distance between herself and the people that she grew up with? I mean Vernon did raise her. There`s -- why is he so angry?
BEHAR: But look at the things that he says. I mean who would trust him?
FULLER: I know.
BEHAR: You know, I`m wondering is this the new journalism now, just this kind of like -- books that come out. You know, "The National Enquirer" was nominated apparently for a Pulitzer, it didn`t win.
MUST: It lost to "Highlights".
FULLER: They revealed an enormously important story, the fact that John Edwards, a presidential candidate, was having an affair --
SKLAR: And lying about it. Lying to the face of journalists.
BEHAR: Agreed.
FULLER: I don`t think we can all do authorized journalism.
MUSTO: Right. And the Pulitzer committee first of all --
FULLER: Journalism isn`t an authorized thing.
MUSTO: This kind of thing has obviously been around forever. Kitty`s been doing these books for decades. But I don`t think the Pulitzer committee took too seriously the John Edwards story, even though it was well done. The Pulitzer goes to John Edwards and the love child with Rielle Hunter.
(CROSSTALK)
MUSTO: And plus I can see the larger picture that the same publication does "Brad Goes Back to Jennifer" every week.
BEHAR: That`s the problem. And also they happen to have said a couple of -- something about Barbara Walters that I happen to know is not true. And she knows it`s not true.
FULLER: That`s "The National Enquirer" stuff.
BEHAR: Yes. So some stories are true like the Edwards story and some are not like the Barbara Walters.
SKLAR: But that was sort of -- it was a really big story that everybody in the media knew about and ignored it. And know one (INAUDIBLE).
FULLER: I agree.
BEHAR: Which story was that?
FULLER: The Edwards story.
BEHAR: Yes. But he also was -- almost became president, so they did a service.
FULLER: That`s right.
BEHAR: They do deserve an award for that, I think.
SKLAR: I agree.
MUSTO: That was nominated against the Examiner for the Bad Boy story and it cancelled out.
BEHAR: So what I mean - I think to me there was a play I just saw with John Lithgow and the playwright says gossip is just news that`s more interesting.
It`s news. The fact that Thomas Jefferson was sleeping with his slave girl and had a bunch of kids with her, that`s gossip, but that`s history now and it was news at the time.
SKLAR: That`s right. And that was repressed for like 200 years.
(CROSSTALK)
FULLER: But I mean these things affect the course of history. That particular story tells us a lot about racial relations at that time and the fact that Thomas Jefferson could keep that quiet for so long -- or his ancestors they keep it quiet and I think it is outrageous.
SKLAR: He needs Kitty Kelley.
FULLER: That`s right. He needs Kitty Kelley.
BEHAR: What about the John Tesch part of this story? What do you make of all that.
SKLAR: I think like -- I think it`s really fascinating. Oprah`s so huge and powerful right now you forget how hard it must have been coming up the ranks being a black woman in the set. Their relationship happened in Tennessee --
BEHAR: In the `70s.
SKLAR: That`s pushing an envelope there for sure.
BEHAR: I know there was some state miscegenation was still against the law.
SKLAR: Oh, yes. I think so very recently.
MUSTO: It`s just weird that according to the book, he walked out in the middle of the night. I mean he couldn`t even see it through to the morning? Make her some mallomars and coffee in the morning. Was it that really that bad at that time that he has to not even --
BEHAR: Does that make you hate his music, Michael?
(CROSSTALK)
FULLER: Well, you could see --
MUSTO: I -- nothing could make me hate his music --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Will you know never go on and never better again.
FULLER: But you know, you really can see, first she was molested as a child --
BEHAR: Yes.
FULLER: -- and then and she doesn`t know who her real father is, and then John Tesch, probably her first serious male relationship, walks out on her in the middle of the night. You can see why she hasn`t gotten married to Steadman, Why she`s afraid of close relationships.
BEHAR: I don`t blame her. With a father like Vernon. Thank you, everybody.
Up next -- I have to end this, I`m sorry -- Sarah Palin was a huge hit at the Republican leadership conference over the weekend. Until it came time to decide who should actually lead. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Jim Carrey with a bizarre Twitter attack on Tiger Woods` wife Elin.
Plus, controversy over a seven-year-old Russian boy sent back to Moscow by his adoptive mother in Tennessee.
Now, back to Joy.
BEHAR: Sarah Palin never far from the headlines is making waves again after a war of words erupted this weekend between her and the President over his signing of a nuclear treaty with Russia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It`s unbelievable. No administration in America`s history would I think ever have considered such a step that we just found out that President Obama is supporting today.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Last I checked Sarah Palin is not much of an expert on nuclear issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: But Palin took to the podium at the Southern Republican Leadership Conference for one more schoolyard taunt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: Now the President, with all the vast nuclear experience that he acquired as a community organizer and as a part-time senator, and as a full-time candidate, all that experience still no accomplishments to date with North Korea and Iran.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Isn`t she a half-term governor? What am I missing here?
Here with me to discuss this and more are my guests, S.E. Cupp, conservative commentator and author of the upcoming book, "Losing Our Religion: The Liberal Media`s Attack on Christianity", and Ron Reagan, liberal commentator.
Ok, guys. Let me start with you, S.E., who won, Sarah Barracuda or the Bamster?
S.E. CUPP, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Well, she only won because he`s a President. Let`s remain above the fray. I don`t want to see my President attacking Glenn Beck in public or Fox News or Sarah Palin. He needs to stay above that, so she wins.
I mean, this is her job now.
BEHAR: What should she have done when George Stephanopoulos asked him the question? If he ignored it, then everybody would say, "Oh, he`s looking down his nose at Sarah Palin."
CUPP: No, he should have said, "I`m a president, I have a lot of things going on I`m not to get involved in this schoolyard fight."
BEHAR: But that dismisses Palin. I think it`s tricky to do that.
CUPP: Well, he can do it without sounding rude and arrogant. He can just say, "Look, I have a busy, busy job and I don`t really want to engage in that." But he is. He`s engaging it, it`s almost like he can`t resist.
BEHAR: I see, so you`re basically saying he should ignore her?
CUPP: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok.
CUPP: I think he should.
BEHAR: Ron, do you think that Obama is right to engage Palin or not, what do you think?
RON REAGAN, LIBERAL COMMENTATOR: I tend to agree with S.E. up to a point here. I don`t think you want to engage Palin because there`s really nothing to engage. I mean, this is somebody who doesn`t have a thought in her head. So the idea of just going toe to toe with her all the time it would certainly be a mistake.
But at the same time, he was asked a direct question and he simply dismissed her as quickly as he could, as he should have. With all her vast nuclear experience, apparently she still doesn`t know how to pronounce the word.
BEHAR: I know.
REAGAN: It`s nucular (ph) still.
CUPP: But that`s such a silly argument. You could go after Obama for mispronouncing Pakistan or Navy Corpsman --
REAGAN: Yes, but he actually understands the issues and she doesn`t, she gives no evidence ever of understanding any issue.
BEHAR: I believe Pakistan is the way Christiane Amanpour would say it, so I say it right.
CUPP: Ok, all right. It`s just it`s not substance of critique. Let`s stick to the substance --
BEHAR: All he`s being -- he`s just being funny.
REAGAN: Well, there`s no substance there, though, that`s the problem. There`s nothing to critique.
BEHAR: There`s no there, there.
CUPP: There`s no there, there. I hear you.
BEHAR: But why does the word "organizer" annoy the GOP? What`s wrong with being a community organizer?
CUPP: I don`t think anything, you know, on its face value. But I think the idea that Barack Obama coming into the presidency had this wealth of knowledge and experience as a potential president is just false.
I mean, we`re not discounting the fact that he got good some experience on the street but that does not a president make. And I don`t think it makes a good leader.
BEHAR: But it`s -- the pot is calling the kettle over here. I mean, she had nothing going on --
CUPP: She has experience, she ran a state. I mean, that is something.
BEHAR: So why did she quit if she was so good at it?
CUPP: I`m not in her head.
BEHAR: All right.
CUPP: But she did have experience.
BEHAR: But what is her role in the GOP right now? Do you know S.E.?
CUPP: I don`t know. She`s obviously great at raising money. She`s obviously great at galvanizing the base. Whether she wants to run for office again is entirely within -- within her head and I don`t really know.
BEHAR: Ok, "Saturday Night Live" poked fun at her being a TV star. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: It just seemed like the next logical step was to launch my own network. If you like fun, you`re just going to love our afternoon block of game shows. At 2:00 p.m., it`s "TEA Party Wheel of Fortune" and at 2:30, catch me in "Are You Smarter Than a Half-Term Governor?" I think you`ll be surprised by the answer. I know I was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So Ron is she -- is she destined to only be a TV star like Kate and Jon? Is that her destiny?
REAGAN: Well, I`m not sure, that she is destined to be a TV star. She`s only a television star now and only captures anybody`s attention because she`s threatening to run for president. As soon as that goes away, she disappears because she`s got nothing interesting to say.
She`s got a few punch lines, the bit about the community organizers and I disagree with S.E. there. That -- that is a tried and true punch line for her and it`s always an insult to community organizing.
What is wrong with community organizing? What is wrong with trying to get neighborhoods to lift themselves out of poverty? Nothing, but she`s seems to see it as an insult.
BEHAR: Why does she see it as an insult?
CUPP: Well, I don`t think she sees it as an insult.
REAGAN: Sure she does.
CUPP: I think she knows how to galvanize the base. But I would disagree that no one is interested in what she has to say. She sold out her book before it was even on the shelves.
BEHAR: Yes.
CUPP: I mean, a lot of people want to hear what she has to say.
BEHAR: Well, you know, I always bring this up on this show. There are 300 million people in this -- in this country --
CUPP: Right.
BEHAR: -- and even if she sold a million --
CUPP: Yes.
BEHAR: -- that is a drop in the bucket.
CUPP: Right.
BEHAR: She just gets a lot of media attention because she`s fascinating to watch in her -- in her inanity.
CUPP: Ok. I wouldn`t put it like that. But I think she`s fascinating to watch because she`s a self-made woman. I mean, we`ve spent eight years --
REAGAN: Oh, oh, oh.
CUPP: -- decrying President Bush as some nepotism experiment gone wrong --
BEHAR: Yes.
CUPP: And here`s this woman who comes up from nothing and makes a real career for herself. I think that`s fascinating.
REAGAN: Self-made? If John McCain hadn`t done the most irresponsible thing I`ve ever seen a presidential candidate --
BEHAR: Absolutely true.
REAGAN: -- do and nominate her as his vice presidential candidate, we would not be hearing about Sarah Palin. She would be nothing.
BEHAR: Thank you. Thank you so much, guys.
Always interesting, as usual. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: When most people think about the Tea Party Movement, African- American participants don`t immediately come to mind. But in a country as big and diverse as this one, we have to expect anything to be possible.
My next guest not only didn`t support Obama, he spends time at Tea Party Rallies. Joining me now is Tim Johnson, chairman of the Frederick Douglass Foundation.
Tim, what`s the most offensive name you`ve been called for being a Tea Partier?
TIMOTHY JOHNSON, CHAIRMAN, FREDERICK DOUGLASS FOUNDATION: I think I would say Uncle Tom, a spook at the door, sellout. There`s obviously a host of names that black Republicans are often times called. So those are the ones I would say on air anyhow.
BEHAR: You`re saying you`re being called those names from whom?
JOHNSON: By blacks.
BEHAR: By other blacks who are more liberal?
JOHNSON: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Why do you think most people are uncomfortable with you being part of the Tea Party Movement?
JOHNSON: I think there`s a lack of understanding and there`s a portrayal out there in the media that base their impression as if every organization and every event needs to be thousands of blacks.
I mean the reality of it is, I went to the Republican Party`s national convention and there weren`t a bunch of blacks in Minneapolis, but we`re only 13 percent of the population. So I don`t understand why people think there should be so many blacks showing up at these events.
BEHAR: Let`s look at these posters. Can you see them?
JOHNSON: Not yet.
BEHAR: There you go. Ok, there`s one. You see that?
JOHNSON: Sure.
BEHAR: And then let`s see another one. "The Zoo has an African and the White House has a lying African."
And then this one, "Where is the birth certificate?" People do not believe he was born in this country. And then that one, "Go back to Kenya."
Can you honestly say there`s no racial element to these kinds of protests?
JOHNSON: Oh, no. I would never say that and the same thing I would say about the Democratic Party. They have a history of racial overtones. So I think you`re going to find that in any organization that you`re going to find some who go over the line with those racial slurs and those racial epithets. But that doesn`t mean that it represents everybody that`s part of the movement.
BEHAR: Then, why don`t you get rid of these people who are in the movement? Clean them out.
JOHNSON: I think there are people that had done that and I have spoken out on it. I know other black Republicans who have spoken out on that issue as it relates to those slurs and those disrespectful comments. And I`ve seen a whole lot more than -- worse than what you`re showing on TV.
And we`ve spoken out on that. I can`t help that the media hasn`t picked up on it but it doesn`t mean that we haven`t spoken out on it.
BEHAR: Look at this video of a woman holding a monkey with a sign. She`s being given the thumbs up sign, not kicked out. How is that ok?
JOHNSON: Again, I`m not saying that it`s ok. I`m not saying it`s appropriate. Once again -- but that`s one person out of thousands of other people in attendance. I can`t control -- I mean I`m not in charge of those events, so I can`t control what they do.
But I can just say where I stand on those issues and again speak for many black Republicans. I won`t say all but that we`re offended by those actions and those depictions but it doesn`t represent the whole movement or the issues on the table.
BEHAR: But sir, I did not hear one white or black person saying that that was a racist thing that was she was doing. I did not hear anybody in the Tea Party condemning that particular -- that monkey that she was carrying, that whole look.
JOHNSON: Well, again, outside of this opportunity and what came out with the Associated Press last week. I`m also the vice chairman of (INAUDIBLE) Republican Party and I don`t get phone calls asking me any of these comments or concerns.
Again, one of the problems that we have and the perception is that we keep going back to one or two people and assuming that those one or two people don`t speak out then it must be something ok for all of them.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks very much, Tim, for joining me.
JOHNSON: Thank you.
BEHAR: Up next, Jim Carrey calls out Tiger and Elin on Twitter. I`ll have the details.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Finally after months of speculation, cocoa has a new home. Conan O`Brien announced today that starting in November, his new late-night home will be TBS. As the 11:00 p.m. lead into "LOPEZ LEAD IN TONIGHT". Joining me to discuss Conan`s big move and more are Cat Greenleaf host of WNBC`s "TALK STOOP WITH CAT GREENLEAF", Andy Cohen host "WATCH WHAT HAPPENS: LIVE" on Bravo and television and radio host Egypt Sherrod. OK Cat, Conan was widely expected to go to FOX and now he`s going to TBS. I mean that`s a big surprise, isn`t it?
CAT GREENLEAF, HOST, "TALK STOOP WITH CAT GREENLEAF": It is. You know two of my very best friends work on each of the shows, Conan`s show and Lopez. Right now both on TBS, neither one of them said a single word to me. So I believe nobody knew anything or this was an 11th hour deal where they are sworn to such type secrecy. But my girls are pretty good to me, they would have been told me if this was in the works for a while.
BEHAR: Yes but with it`s younger demographic, isn`t cable better for him actually?
ANDY COHEN, HOST, "WATCH WHAT HAPPENS: LIVE": It is. I mean all he has to do is better than George Lopez was doing in his show and George Lopez will now follow him and according to Bill Carter of "The New York Times," has been covering this story for awhile, the late night wars, this all went down in the last week and a half, which is amazing.
BEHAR: Yes.
COHEN: And that the FOX thing was fairly dead -- it was not moving along because of the syndication deals that local FOX stations have going.
BEHAR: I see.
EGYPT SHERROD, TELEVISION AND RADIO HOST: It turned out to be a blessing in disguise for Conan and for us to be honest with you because -
BEHAR: Yes.
SHERROD: Cable TV now, especially late-night cable TV, hey, it`s where it`s at. And this way we`ll get to see the unadulterated Conan. You know, let`s face it, on television, you know, traditional networks, he`s a little watered down. He`ll be able to let loose.
BEHAR: Yes.
COHEN: Well, listen, I have a live late night cable show and it`s amazing on what you can get away with on live late night at midnight.
BEHAR: Yes, well you get away with some things.
COHEN: Yes, you do.
GREENLEAF: What I think is so remarkable -- it`s like a Greek tragedy, right? Like you know first is was Leno bumping Conan now we have Conan bumping Lopez.
BEHAR: Yes.
GREENLEAF: Who`s next, Joy Behar?
BEHAR: No, I don`t know. I`m not bumping anybody.
SHERROD: No we`ll be outside with picket signs, Joy.
COHEN: But that was an amicable, you know, George Lopez called Conan and said I want to do this, this will be good for TBS. I`m going to get you as a lead-in. So it`s not a Jay situation where he was going to be bumping Conan.
BEHAR: No but then Conan had to give up his slot to Jay. He didn`t get his blessing there. There was no blessings there.
COHEN: No but what I`m saying is there`s no animosity from what`s being reported between George Lopez and Conan.
BEHAR: Right, well, he`s going to have a great lead-in.
COHEN: Yes.
BEHAR: He`s going to have Conan, yes. I mean everybody wins there.
GREENLEAF: It`s good for everybody, it`s agreed.
BEHAR: All right.
SHERROD: The only one that doesn`t win is Jay Leno because he`s still looked at as a bad guy, poor guy.
BEHAR: I don`t think so. I think that`s stopped.
COHEN: And his numbers are really good, I mean.
SHERROD: It`s not really his fault.
BEHAR: His numbers are great.
COHEN: Yes.
BEHAR: Everybody is back on board. I didn`t an interview with Jay when I did his show a couple weeks ago -
COHEN: It was good.
BEHAR: And he said the same thing as before, it`s business, it`s just business, it`s not personal.
COHEN: Right.
BEHAR: Nobody died. OK anyway, let`s move on to Tiger Woods. He didn`t win The Masters but fortunately for Tiger, that`s merely a side note to the spotlight grabbing weirdness of Jim Carey`s Twitter page over the weekend. He wrote "Tiger Woods owes nothing to anyone but himself. To please his father, he gave up his childhood and freedom and the world. That`s enough. No wife is blind enough to miss that much infidelity. Elin had to be a willing participant on the ride for whatever reason." Cat doesn`t that sound like he`s calling out Elin for Tiger`s cheating a little bit here?
GREENLEAF: Yes, he does and whatever, Jim Carey. You leave Jenny McCarthy and suddenly you`re the expert on how to make things right? I thought it was a bizarre thing coming out of his Tweeting thumbs here. And here`s the deal, I mean we`ve talked about Tiger many times.
BEHAR: Many times yes.
GREENLEAF: Maybe Elin decided to look the other way for the good of her family. Maybe she didn`t want to do what Hollywood people often do and just throw in the towel and walk off. They have children together. They have a life together.
BEHAR: Are you saying that maybe she did know about all the sexting and all these women?
GREENLEAF: I`m starting to think she did.
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: So you`re agreeing with Jim Carey?
BEHAR: Yes.
GREENLEAF: Yes but I don`t Tweet it out to the world when I`ve just had a bad break up myself.
SHERROD: Who is Jim Carey to talk about relationships considering what he is going through right now? But the reality is as women, we have a gut instinct that tells us when something is not right, when someone is cheating and when something smells fishy. So I think she definitely, you know, knew something was going on. But being it`s on the cover of all these newspapers, she was forced to deal with it, unfortunately.
BEHAR: Well he thought -
SHERROD: Just like everybody was thinking.
BEHAR: Jim Carey just to get you straight on this, he Tweeted about his peanut butter sandwich afterwards because apparently his people came and said to him -- maybe celebrities should not be Tweeting.
GREENLEAF: Get away from the Blackberry -
COHEN: It`s - it`s the great oversharing. It`s the great oversharing. I love Tweeting and by the way, I loved that Tweet. Nobody had said that and so big deal. He wasn`t saying what Tiger did was right. All he`s saying is could this have been much a surprise to his wife? Could it have been a crazy surprise to his wife?
BEHAR: Right, right, OK after the tournament, Tiger said he was going to take a break from golf to re-evaluate things. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIGER WOODS, GOLF PLAYER: I wanted to win this tournament and as the week wore on, I kept hitting the ball worse, I hit better on Friday but after that it was not very good. I`m going to take a little time offer and re-evaluate things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK he was a little off his game. Do you think he was too anxious?
SHERROD: I think what happen here, Tiger has been in the media forefront since he was a child. This entire scandal has knocked him off his game literally and figuratively. And you know, listen, I thought he did phenomenal, you know, everybody said he did phenomenal, but it is human nature, when the whole world is looking at you, to fumble. It`s going to happen.
GREENLEAF: And it`s not the first time he`s not done well, you know, I mean his career has had some peaks and valleys. It`s not like it`s just because everything bad was happening that he came in fourth. Which by the way is no slouchy spot.
BEHAR: But maybe he should go back to seeing all these women that makes his game better.
COHEN: It clearly game him peace and the release.
BEHAR: You know John Kennedy, you know, was a great president and he had a million girlfriends.
COHEN: Watching the masters reminded me how boring golf is. We`ve been talking about Tiger for so long -
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
COHEN: Then I watch yesterday. Wait a minute, I forgot how boring it is.
SHERROD: I do think maybe he needs a longer vacation, you know, just in time to get in touch with himself again.
COHEN: He just had a vacation.
SHERROD: How long was it really? I mean he was dodging newspapers and paparazzi everywhere. That`s not a very good vacation.
(CROSSTALK)
GREENLEAF: What about rehab, sexhab.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: There a lot of people that believe that it doesn`t even exist, sexual --
SHERROD: I agree.
BEHAR: Addiction. No people don`t even believe in it anymore. It`s just so ridiculous. So many rich guys are sexually addicted, the rest are just a bunch of dogs, do you know what I mean? And finally, Jon Gosselin said he is -
COHEN: Speaking of dogs.
BEHAR: Definitely - it was a nice segue, open to co-starring with his ex-wife, Kate Gosselin, on another TV project. Who knew he was available? The guy cannot get arrested. After he announced he`s suing her for full custody of their eight kids.
COHEN: Of course this is big headline news saying that he`s open to the idea that is not going to present itself to him. TLC announced last week that they`re doing another show with Kate Gosselin without him.
BEHAR: Right, right.
COHEN: She`s on "DANCING WITH THE STARS".
BEHAR: "TWIST of KATE."
COHEN: Right, a "TWIST OF KATE".
GREENLEAF: Look are coming out, I hate to say it but it seems like she`s the smart and sane one at the moment.
BEHAR: She`s coming on my show this week. Anything you want me to ask her?
SHERROD: Yes, who does her face?
GREENLEAF: Who does her hair?
COHEN: Who doesn`t do her face?
(CROSSTALK)
SHERROD: Well her 15 minutes of fame is up and her second stint has just begun and so he wants to ride the bandwagon, that`s it.
COHEN: The extensions on the ladies -
BEHAR: But I mean why are these two famous again? Can someone remind me again why are they famous?
SHERROD: For putting out several babies.
BEHAR: For having a bunch of babies and also fighting on the air. If they didn`t fight and weren`t dysfunctional, they wouldn`t be famous, right?
SHERROD: Makes for good reviews.
GREENLEAF: But I think it`s our fault, I think, we the viewing public have made this monster, we continue to subscribe to this monster and we`re all going to watch, you know, one Kate Plus Eight.
BEHAR: But you know what -- he calls, first he calls Kate an absentee mother because she did "DANCING WITH THE STARS," -
COHEN: Right.
BEHAR: Now he wants to be on TV himself. I mean is he a little bit mental?
COHEN: Yes. I think he`s addicted - I think he`s probably addicted to it a little bit. I think he probably needs some money.
BEHAR: Yes.
COHEN: And I think what`s interesting with Kate Gosselin is that she became famous as being a woman who had all these kids and people loved to watch her try to raise the kids and emasculate her husband and see if she could juggle it all. Now she`s a celebrity, she`s on "DANCING WITH THE STARS" -
BEHAR: Yes.
COHEN: And I don`t know if her new role as a celebrity is what people want to see. I think people fell in love with her because she was a mom who was relatable.
BEHAR: Did they fall in love with her? They were attacking her for being -- yelling at the husband, and yelling at the children.
COHEN: I think at the beginning people enjoyed her and enjoyed watching her as a mom.
SHERROD: We love reality TV because of the train wreck that it is.
BEHAR: That`s right.
GREENLEAF: And if it clears up it`s going to be boring and the show will be canceled.
BEHAR: I`m a little worried about her and I`m worried about that Octomom too, that other nut job.
GREENLEAF: What if they move in together -
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: So I mean she`s got also all those kids and she has no visible means of support that I can see. And this one is smart, Kate is not --
COHEN: True.
GREENLEAF: She`s going to get a show.
COHEN: She`s a very weird woman.
BEHAR: Well the other one, Octomom is not dumb. She`s just off.
COHEN: Right.
SHERROD: Isn`t her home in foreclosure anyway?
BEHAR: Foreclosure, you know where - thanks again guys. Up next, a Tennessee woman -
COHEN: Oh -
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: A Tennessee woman ships her adopted 7-year-old back to Russia. I`ll have the latest on the international outrage.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: A 7-year-old Russian boy has been sent back to Moscow after his adoptive mother here in Tennessee claimed he was violent and had severe psychopathic issues. The child flew all the way back to Russia, alone, with a note. There are a lot of questions in this case. Here to discuss them are CNN legal analyst Lisa Bloom. Pediatrician and international adoption specialist Doctor Jane Aronson. But first, CNN`s Martin Savidge is in Tennessee. Martin, you`re in the town where this mother lives. What`s going on down there?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well right now there`s an investigation that`s begun. The U.S. State Department requested that local authorities down here begin to look into the fact of whether or not there had been any laws that have been violated as a result of the actions that the American adoptive family had taken in returning the boy to Moscow. That duty falls on the local sheriff. He`s begun his investigation. We`ve talked to the sheriff`s office, we`ve talked to the local D.A., and quite frankly, they both look at this case and say initially they`re not sure any laws have been violated. They agree that a lot of people are not happy in the way that the family handled this. But that doesn`t necessarily mean that it is illegal. The only question that has come up is possibly child abandonment, however, the local D.A. will point out if that occurred, it would have occurred in Washington when the child was placed on the international flight to go back to Russia and that is out of the local jurisdiction.
BEHAR: OK.
SAVIDGE: So right now, the case is still being investigated. They want to talk to family.
BEHAR: Now, is there any evidence to support that the child was violent because that`s what this Mrs. Hanson said.
SAVIDGE: That`s correct. Most of the statements have come from Nancy Hanson.
BEHAR: Yes.
SAVIDGE: She`s the adopted parent, she`s the grandmother, actually. And what she laid out is that this child is not only very violent but psychotic, as she put it. She spoke to CNN in a telephone conversation on Friday and she outlined what was a whole litany of a very, very violent child. That in fact the family felt threatened to the point that their safety, their lives, they felt were in danger. And at one point they say the child was not only violet to other children, threatened the adopted mother, wanted to kill her for her home. And at one point they caught the child, they say, attempting to light a fire to burn the house down. They were fearing to kill everybody inside. That`s the only indication we have. Russian authorities who have had the child for several days say the child has been an absolute delight. There`s a real mixed message here.
BEHAR: Really. Well you know, I want to know does the child speak English at all? Was he having any trouble communicating with the family, the adoptive family?
SAVIDGE: The family says that the child did begin to speak English. They had the child for about seven months. So if the child had no English, how much of a grasp of the language is unclear. But the child was able to draw pictures and they say with the pictures and with the stories the child was telling a story of terrible abuse suffered while in the hands of the Russian orphanage. But again, all of this coming from a 7-year-old, how do you discern what is real, what is not? In the meantime though, you have the child back in Russia and you have a family over here that feels it did the right thing. That`s the thing, the Hansons believe that by returning the child, they were doing, not only good for their family, of course, but also the very best thing for the child. There are many parents who might disagree with that.
BEHAR: OK, that`s a very controversial thing. Martin, thanks very much. So let`s turn to my panel. Now, the adoptive mom is seen here, shows picture with the boy in a photo from CBS, puts the kid on a plane back to Russia. Now we know this is poor judgment, Lisa, but it`s not necessarily illegal. We just heard that.
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANAYLYST: The question is -
BEHAR: Right?
BLOOM: Right, the question is whether it`s child endangerment, which means jeopardizing the health or safety of the child. Now the family is going to say they put him on the flight of an unaccompanied minor, that`s an official statues where you pay extra to the airline and the flight attendants look after the child on a flight. When he landed in Moscow, they paid a driver $200 to pick him up, which the driver did, and then take him to the Russian Department of Education. So the family is going to say he was looked after by responsible adults the entire time, therefore not child endangerment. And you know Joy, when the local sheriff says I`m not sure there`s a crime here, to me that`s a big signal that they`re not going to prosecute.
BEHAR: OK let me talk to you Dr. Aronson, you know, the mother had a note on the child. It said I`m sorry to say for the safety of my family, friends, and myself, I no longer wish to parent this child. I`m returning him to your guardianship. In your experience with adoption, what do you make of that? I mean, does this case surprise you? Is this woman a bad person? I think that`s what people are thinking?
DR. JANE ARONSON, PEDIATRICIAN: No. I mean I don`t look at life like that. There`s no one good or bad but I would say to you the following, it`s kind of ridiculous that this mother is sending the child back to Russia to where, to a building? Are there people, the Ministry of Education is often not open. Where was the timing here?
BEHAR: I see.
ARONSON: And then the other thing here that has to be looked at is that as far as we know now, there were no resources that she, you know, that she got involved with. She never saw an international adoption doctor when she came seven months ago. She didn`t have a routine evaluation by a professional. She didn`t get involved with the adoption community. There`s a huge adoption community in Tennessee. I was just in Nashville on March 23rd to give a deans lecture at Vanderbilt, School of Medicine. They have an international clinic, it`s 57 miles away from the school.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
ARONSON: She could have gone there and met with Dr. Wolfman (ph), Dr. Ashford (ph). They have a special program there for attachment disorders.
BEHAR: And she didn`t do that?
ARONSON: She didn`t do any of that. If this kid had attachment issues, which is, includes, threatening, the burning down home.
BEHAR: Yes.
ARONSON: Threatening to kill people and the family -
BEHAR: He took a statue and threw it at them ---
ARONSON: If this child had behavioral problems, they would have seen this family. They had a fabulous clinic with a program to help treat attachment issues.
BEHAR: OK, stay right there, we`ll continue this discussion after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel discussing the Russian adoption case. Don`t older adopted kids have some anger issues though? When you`re adopted as an older kid, you might have some issues or problems.
ARONSON: You know it depends on the situation, older adopted children is a category that needs to be broken down into kids who have been institutionalized their whole life, and how old are they when you say older. Or kids who have a family and have lived with the socialization and intimacy of a normal family and then they lose their family. I have an adopted almost 12-year-old from Ethiopia, I adopted him at 6 years of age. He lived with his family for the first five years of his life.
BEHAR: Right.
ARONSON: And that was in an institution. There`s lots of kids like that who are perfectly well and healthy and just need to learn to adapt to a new family environmental. But kids from Russia are different. Most of those kids, like this little boy Justin are living in an institution all their lives. They never learn intimacy or social connections. Then a mother brings this kid home, she isolated him, she was teaching him at home and he had no ability to really connect and socialize with other children.
BEHAR: OK let`s assume that she didn`t know what she was doing. So did she have -- did she have the right to present him back? Lisa? Let me ask Lisa. She`s a lawyer.
BLOOM: No, she doesn`t. What I`ve learned is that she tried to get the adoption annulled by employing a Russian lawyer and was told after a month`s worth of work that it couldn`t be done. And getting an adoption -- here in the United States would be very difficult as well. You have to show a compelling reason. So these mental health issues that she raised in her letter apparently were not enough in Russia to get the adoption annulled, that`s the problem that she had.
BEHAR: Yes but I think it`s an interesting thing, if she`s so overwhelmed by the child and the child is violent and very scary, what should she do?
ARONSON: She should have conducted her Home Study Social Worker. There was a home study done here by a social worker who is accredited in the state of Tennessee to provide services. They should have been post adoption visits.
BEHAR: Should she have returned to Russia with the boy on the plane?
ARONSON: No, absolutely not.
BEHAR: No.
ARONSON: The key here is that the child should not have been returned to Russia. That`s not how it goes. If you adopt a child and the kid needs services, then you access the services. We have a fabulous adoption community in Tennessee with a lot of professional -
BEHAR: Yes.
ARONSON: Who could have helped her.
BEHAR: Right.
ARONSON: And she didn`t access those services.
BEHAR: OK, Lisa, do you think that she did not go with the boy on the plane because she was afraid if she went to Russia they would say to her, take the boy back to the United States?
BLOOM: Probably. I think that`s a good theory. She did fly with him from Washington, I`m sorry from, Tennessee to Washington. And then he flew on his own from Washington to Russia. And I think she probably thought it was a cute plan, send the kid on his own, the driver takes him to the Ministry of Education, and then her hands are washed of the whole matter. Unfortunately, it`s turned into an international incident and it all really backfired on her.
BEHAR: Well it`s kind of irresponsible what she did.
ARONSON: Totally irresponsible.
BLOOM: Absolutely. And Joy I`m surprised that the plane takes a 7-year-old as an unaccompanied minor on an 11 hour flight. That seems awfully young to me.
BEHAR: I`ve heard of children being put on planes when they were younger. My daughter`s friends, I remember some kids that went to South America when they were 7 or 8 years old.
ARONSON: That`s going to be looked at now, I think after this incident, I think -
BEHAR: The people on the plane, the stewardess, et cetera, the flight attendants, they said that he behaved properly on the plane.
ARONSON: I`m sure he did.
BEHAR: And the Russians were saying that he behaved properly in Russia. Who do you believe here?
ARONSON: I believe everybody. And I`ll tell you something, I think what needs to be looked at is a very important piece here, this young woman likely had parent attachment disorder herself. Meaning that she had issues about bonding with this child.
BEHAR: Maybe she shouldn`t have adopted a child then. But she had another one.
BLOOM: A kid behave differently amongst strangers than they do with their parents.
BEHAR: That`s true, this story is not going to get away so fast, so thanks for joining me ladies.
BLOOM: Thank you.
BEHAR: And thank you all for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
