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Michael Douglas` Son Sentenced to Five Years in Prison; Obama Heckled by Gay Rights Activists
Aired April 20, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Next on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Michael Douglas writes a heart-felt letter to a judge pleading for leniency in his son`s sentencing. Did it work? We`ll find out.
Then, it`s official. Sandra Bullock has taken off her wedding ring. So is the marriage over or as Jesse James will say kaput?
And President Obama is heckled by gay rights activists. Is it me or does this President get heckled more than an open miker at Yuck Yuck`s? All that and more starts right now.
Today, just a little while ago, Michael Douglas`s son Cameron was sentenced to five years in prison for selling drugs. He was supposed to get ten years, but his famous father Michael sent a letter to the judge begging for leniency.
And according to Drew Pinsky, a little jail time might be the best thing for another alleged addict, Lindsay Lohan
With me to discuss this are Danny Bonaduce, actor and radio talk show host on 94.1 WISC in Philadelphia; Dr. Reef Karim, addiction specialist and director of the Control Center in Beverly Hills; and Beth Karas correspondent for "In Session" on TruTV.
Ok, Cameron was sentenced to five years today. He could have gotten the mandatory ten which is what he pled to. Originally the charge was a mandatory 10. Was he treated differently because he has a famous father? What do you think Beth?
BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": He was treated differently because people had a little mercy and asked the judge to have a little mercy on him because he`s a drug addict. And while he shouldn`t be selling drugs and endangering the lives of other people and he`s punished for it, maybe ten years is a little steep.
The sentencing guidelines are no longer mandatory. They`re advisory so the judge was allowed to show a little mercy.
But I don`t know that it`s because his father is famous. It`s because he needed to get a little -- he needs to dry out and then help himself.
BEHAR: Michael Douglas sent a letter to the judge pleading for clemency. Let me just read you a little of the letter so that people out there know this.
"Dear Judge Berman. I don`t want to burden you with a litany of my son Cameron`s rehab history beginning at 13. He`s an adult and responsible for his own life. We do know however that genes, family and peer pressure are all a strong influence on a substance abuser. I have some idea of the pressure of finding your own identify with a famous father." Kirk Douglas.
I`m not sure I can comprehend it with two generations to deal with. Danny, he talks about the impact of fame on his son. Do celebrities believe that the justice system applies to them?
DANNY BONADUCE, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Oh, yes, absolutely. It`s very cyclical, though and there was a time where you were protected because you were a celebrity.
Remember, Rock Hudson was the leading man in Hollywood and nobody knew he was gay until he was just shy of passing away. They were protected.
Then it became a very interesting thing for the police to enjoy getting their name in the papers and they went after celebrities and judges started throwing the book at them to show that they weren`t showing favoritism.
But I must disagree with Beth and that is they didn`t give him leniency because people wrote letters on his behalf. The last time I was arrested I had priests -- my brother`s a choir director -- writing letters on my behalf. He got leniency because he`s a snitch.
BEHAR: Well, that was your mistake.
BONADUCE: Right. But he got leniency because he`s a snitch. The prosecutor and D.A. went public and said please give him leniency, he was helpful in giving us information that shut down several meth labs.
Well, guess who gets killed first in jail? The snitch. You can`t give him 10 years in jail. He`ll be serving less than half of that in Club Fed.
BEHAR: Well, even within a few months, if he serves 18 months or so, it`s still dangerous for him in jail, isn`t it, Danny?
BONADUCE: I would say he`s not going to spend one moment in real jail. He`ll either go to solitary confinement, like he committed mass murder, 23 hours a day in an 8 by 10 foot cell with one hour a day of exercise in a 75 by 75 foot cage.
Or he will go to Club Fed which is federal prison where nobody gets killed. As a matter of fact, after you know the guards real well, you can borrow their cars to drive into town.
BEHAR: Ok. Dr. Reef, Cameron Douglas is the son of Michael Douglas. His grandfather is Kirk Douglas, who is basically Spartacus. I mean everybody knows Kirk Douglas. He`s a legendary actor in Hollywood. How does that play into the psychology of this kid vis-a-vis his father`s letter?
DR. REEF KARIM, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Yes. In regards to the psychology of celebrities and especially with kids and adolescents, there`s three main factors here.
There`s living up to your parents` or in this case your grandparents` expectations in what they did and the success that they have had. There`s also an entitlement factor because with a lot of kids and celebrity kids that are on drugs or have drug problems, a big part of their problem is their entitlement. They`ve been given whatever they want and they don`t know any better and they think they`re above it all and the drugs take them down.
BEHAR: Yes, well, he was selling the drugs. He comes from a wealthy family. There`s something odd about that right there, isn`t there, Danny?
BONADUCE: Yes. And he was selling currently what is considered the dirtiest drug in the world; it has the worst effect on people. You deteriorate within months with methamphetamine. It`s awful. The recipe for it, you would be amazed.
Let me just put it this way. One of the ingredients in the meth lab is dissolving a tin can into the mix. This stuff will kill you and kill you fast.
But has anybody mentioned in the Douglas family that Michael Douglas`s younger brother is already dead of a drug overdose?
BEHAR: Right. Eric. Eric Douglas died of an overdose also. Which is -- you know -- is there some kind of genetic connection here, too?
(CROSSTALK)
BONADUCE: Go ahead, doctor.
KARIM: Yes. There`s absolutely a genetic connection. There`s absolutely a genetic predisposition. When you include the environmental factors like the entitlement, the sensation seeking, a lot of these kids are bored. They just want something to do.
And then when you add the genetic factor on top of it, they didn`t know what was coming. Before you know it, it hits them and it takes them down.
I totally, totally agree with Danny on this. Meth is a nasty, nasty drug. And the fact that he was selling is a really scary thing.
BEHAR: Wasn`t he using heroin also at one point Danny? I believe he was using that.
BONADUCE: Well, as the good doctor said methamphetamine is so horrifying and luckily I quit my recreational drug career well before anybody even heard of methamphetamines.
But you can almost use one without the other. It`s salt and pepper. Meth heads are up for three and four days at a time. They start to hallucinate. They don`t know where they are. They can`t speak English any longer but a nice shot of heroin, all of a sudden you`re asleep and you can live again.
BEHAR: You don`t seem too sympathetic to him, Danny?
BONADUCE: I`m not sympathetic to any drug addicts.
BEHAR: Because you were one yourself.
BONADUCE: I was one myself. And this is a dangerous comment because who knows if you`re ever going to relapse but I think the last judge that didn`t put me in jail made an egregious mistake.
BEHAR: Do you people think that jail is the best thing for this kid? Or you know, I mean -- Dr. Drew Pinsky says in the case of Lindsay Lohan, the only thing that will help her is a little jail time so she can get some real rehab. I think that`s a little harsh.
KARAS: Because you have to want to help yourself when you`re an addict. You can`t be involuntarily committed very easily; almost impossible.
BONADUCE: Almost impossible.
KARAS: And so one of the ways to do it is stick you in jail, stick you in prison if you commit a crime, and that will dry you out hopefully, but there are ways to get drugs in prison as well.
BEHAR: You know, it worked for Robert Downey, Jr. Dr. Reef.
Lohan had two DUIs, a felony charge of possession of cocaine and three visits to the rehab in 2007. She doesn`t seem to be getting any better, this girl. In fact, she reportedly skipped a court date recently to go shopping. She`s a brat. She`s a brat.
I mean she was being charged with reckless driving. Just go out there.
As you say, as Danny just said that, the entitlement aspect of this is really something that we`re talking about here with Lindsay, and it sounds like the same thing with Cameron to some extent.
KARIM: The question most people are asking is how many charges need to add up before something happens here. And I totally agree with you. Entitlement is a huge factor, and for some people -- listen, I have to put 51/50s for danger to self on certain people to get them in a hospital so they can be detoxed and get treated appropriately.
Sometimes it`s legal, sometimes it`s medical, involuntary charges. And sometimes you can get to people through family, through friends, or the loss of their career. But one thing or another, you want to get them before they hit rock bottom where it could include death.
BONADUCE: Doctor, if I may -- I`m sure there`s some people that may not know this. A 51/50, if I`m not mistaken, is a commitment -- an involuntary commitment to a psych ward for 72 hours of observation. Some people might not know that.
BEHAR: You were in jail, Danny, weren`t you? You were arrested a bunch of times.
BONADUCE: A bunch of times.
BEHAR: So you have been sent to jail when you look back on it. Did that help you?
BONADUCE: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I credit the police -- I`ve been to rehab three times. I went to the big famous one out there in Malibu. It cost me a nice quick 40 grand. It was interesting because I bunked, and you have chores to do with an A-list movie star who made $20 million a picture so it was fun.
But I drank on the way home from the place. You know what made me quit taking recreational drugs?
BEHAR: What?
BONADUCE: The cops. And that`s why I agree with people who say send them to jail.
One day I woke up with my hand chained to the wall because that`s what they do in the police station. And I`m chained to some guy and he`s covered with blood and I`m wondering if it`s mine and I wonder if I even know this guy. I said, I don`t want to wake up chained to bleeding people anymore. That`s when I quit.
You can talk to a drug addict all day, but you lock his hands behind his back, and he`s not going to take drugs.
BEHAR: It`s not funny. But you know, the way you put it made us -- for some reason, we have nervous giggling over here.
BONADUCE: I have a tendency to be dead serious and make people laugh. I guess it`s a blessing or a curse.
BEHAR: So Dr. Reef, do you think that jail time would be good for Lindsay Lohan?
KARIM: I think if she continues on this spiral, the downward spiral and the entitlement that she`s on, I could see it going in that direction.
I think -- but with a lot of these guys and a lot of these kids, it happens anyway. It`s not like magically, you know, hey, let`s put her in jail. It`s going to happen sooner or later for a lot of these people unless they get help.
BONADUCE: But doctor -- isn`t there a third choice. Isn`t there a third choice doctor? Is jail best, is rehab best or as a medical doctor how much time do you give her until she dies because she`s on a thing called the dead pool and she is number 15. I happened to be number 63 (INAUDIBLE) --
BEHAR: You know a lot of times we talk on this show about different addictions. Like we had on a woman who gained -- was up to 700 pounds yesterday.
BONADUCE: I talked to her this morning.
BEHAR: Yes and I mean, what are you supposed to do with people who are addicted to food, to alcohol, to drugs when you are a family member who is watching them destroy themselves? It`s a very difficult thing to do.
KARAS: You know, it`s interesting and family members are desperate. And this is an issue that is very near and dear to my heart. But a close friend to Michael Jackson`s family told me in the summer of 2007. He was approached and asked by the family to do some intervention with Michael because they were afraid that Michael was going to become another Anna Nicole Smith. And Anna Nicole Smith had died just a few months before I had this conversation with a friend.
BEHAR: And so?
KARAS: And well, I mean, he didn`t succeed.
BEHAR: He didn`t because he died.
KARAS: No.
BEHAR: So he was on the right track.
Thanks, everybody, very much. We`ll be back in a minute. Don`t go anywhere.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: So how would your kids react if you told them they didn`t have worry about tests, books or homework? I`m thinking that would make them happy, right? Well, there are some kids being raised just like that with no formal education. It`s called "unschooled". And here now to discuss this are parents who are unschooling their two children.
Christine Yablonski and Phil Biegler, welcome to the show you guys.
PHIL BIEGLER, "UNSCHOOLED": Thank you.
BEHAR: You`ve been unschooling your kids for six years now, right?
CHRISTINE YABLONSKI, "UNSCHOOLED": Yes.
BEHAR: What exactly is it, what does it mean? To unschool?
YABLONSKI: Unschooling is a variation on the scope of what people can do for home schooling. Some people like to create an actual school at home with -- almost replicating a classroom experience. The whole other end of the spectrum is unschooling. And that`s where the parents don`t dictate what the kids learn or how they learn it.
But instead through information towards and gives them lots of opportunities and information, but really let the kids figure out what it is that they want to learn and how they want to learn it.
BEHAR: Well, how do you get them to do like the times tables and learn to spell and all the basic, you know, ABCs?
YABLONSKI: They do it in a very organic way. So my kids never had to memorize the times tables but they can figure out multiplication problems. They`ve done it, they do it often in their heads. They can do these things because they are doing it when it matters because they are using math as a tool, not just as something to practice for some what if.
BEHAR: How do you get them motivated to just learn all that stuff?
BIEGLER: So kids and people --
BEHAR: Yes.
BIEGLER: -- are motivated to learn. That`s what they do. I mean, when our kids were two, three, four, they learned how to walk, they learn how to talk, they learned how to use the bathroom. They learned all kinds of things.
YABLONSKI: They`d memorize dinosaur names --
BIEGLER: They memorize dinosaur names --
YABLONSKI: -- when they`re four.
BEHAR: Because they wanted to.
YABLONSKI: Exactly.
BIEGLER: Because people do that, because when they -- something that they are interested in and something that they want to achieve and they do what they need to do. Our kids would try to walk and they would fall down and it would hurt, right?
BEHAR: Yes.
BIEGLER: So they get up and they`d walk again. They`re doing something that might hurt them a little bit, but they continue to do it because they want to learn how to walk.
BEHAR: I got you.
So what`s a typical day for you, for example? Quickly tell me like a day, and then we`ll move on.
YABLONSKI: Sure, the kids get up, they make themselves some breakfast. They get -- they might check in with friends on Internet or e- mail, things like that. They have little things they like to do. Each day is different, so sometimes our kids are doing things. They`re reading or they`re exploring things that they`ve been talking about, we`re planning for different events that are coming into our lives, we`re going someplace. They`re with me.
BEHAR: They`re with you two all day long?
YABLONSKI: Pretty much.
BIEGLER: Yes, I work. I work out of the house right now, but I travel a bit. So when I`m home, I try to spend as much time with them as I can.
BEHAR: So mostly you`re doing this?
YABLONSKI: Mostly, yes.
BEHAR: I see. Isn`t that a bit claustrophobic though, to be home with your parents all day long with them?
YABLONSKI: If they didn`t like it, they would ask to go to school. They don`t ask to go to school.
BEHAR: If I was stuck with my parents all day I would have killed myself.
BIEGLER: But there was a couple --
BEHAR: I`m just saying that. And they`re lovely people, but who wants to be with them all day?
BIEGLER: So, so they`re not home alone with us all day long.
BEHAR: Yes.
BIEGLER: We spend a significant amount of time outside the house. And in fact, we have spent a significant amount of time traveling both outside the country and across the country. We took the kids on a nine-week motor home tour across the lower half of the U.S. They went to 23 different states --
BEHAR: Oh that`s nice.
BIEGLER: -- and we go on trips and visit friends, we go on outings, we go to museums.
BEHAR: Other people do that too, though.
BIEGLER: Yes, so -- so the kids don`t feel cooped up. If the kids comes to us --
BEHAR: I see.
BIEGLER: -- one morning and they mommy, daddy we want to get out of the house today.
BEHAR: Yes.
BIEGLER: Where do you want to go? Let`s go to the museum. Ok, let`s go to the museum.
BEHAR: Ok, do you give them tests?
YABLONSKI: No.
BIEGLER: No.
BEHAR: No tests, so how do you know they`re learning, how do you know they are keeping up with kids who are in school?
YABLONSKI: Well, I don`t care if they`re keeping ahead with kids in schools. There are things that my kids know that kids in school don`t know. So I don`t compare them unfavorably to my kids --
BEHAR: Yes.
YABLONSKI: -- just because they haven`t been exposed to the things our kids have been exposed to.
BEHAR: I get that but then they have to take the SATs and get into college. Then, what happens?
YABLONSKI: Right, well, so if they need to take the SATs -- and not all colleges require it anymore and more and more are pulling away from it, because they are recognizing that it isn`t actually as good an indicator for a success in college as it used to be thought.
They will take those things if they need to and they will prepare for them if they need to. There`s a lot of ways and a lot of paths to get to higher education or jobs or things like that.
BEHAR: I guess, but there are also rules and regulations out there in the world that they may have to follow at some point.
YABLONSKI: Well, sure well, we all do, and we all find our way to that. And that`s not exclusive of unschooling or any other kind of educational --
BEHAR: Where did I hear this that your daughter stays up all night? What is she doing all night?
YABLONSKI: Ok, sometimes -- she doesn`t do it every night but sometimes she does, sometimes she has friends who don`t live local to us, so sometimes they get on Skype and they have conversations. And that`s how she maintains her social contacts with her friends who are not local.
BEHAR: I see. Does she go out with her friends at night? To prom games and proms and dances?
YABLONSKI: She`s gone to proms. She`s gone to events. We`ve hosted events at our house. So she had a bunch of friends over.
BEHAR: So they have friends?
YABLONSKI: Oh yes.
BIEGLER: Lots of friends. Friends all over the country; enough friends so that we can`t satisfy their requests to keep them in contact with all of their friends.
BEHAR: It sounds a lot like home schooling except that you don`t have a curriculum, basically?
BIEGLER: Yes, there`s --
BEHAR: Sixty percent of home schoolers go to college by the way. We looked it up.
YABLONSKI: Oh yes.
BIEGLER: Good.
BEHAR: Do you have any statistics about unschoolers? How many kids go to college?
YABLONSKI: It`s hard because --
BEHAR: There`s only 100,000 kids in the country.
BIEGLER: But we don`t know. We don`t know.
YABLONSKI: That`s just it. It`s hard to survey how many people are doing what.
BEHAR: It would be interesting to see like ten years from now what the numbers are and how it looks, because it could be a very radical thing you`re doing. It could be very effective.
I have to go. Thanks very much.
Up next, a married couple in Texas isn`t being allowed to divorce because they`re gay. I`ll talk to one half of that couple in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: When Angelique Naylor married her lesbian partner in Massachusetts where same-sex marriage is legal, little did she know she would have so much trouble trying to get a divorce in Texas, the state that banned gay marriage. Apparently Texas wants to preserve the sanctity of divorce.
Joining me now is Angelique Naylor. Hello Angelique, how are you?
ANGELIQUE NAYLOR, GAY SPOUSE DENIED DIVORCE: Hi, Joy. Doing great.
BEHAR: It`s ironic that a state that bans gay marriage is trying so hard to keep two lesbians married, isn`t it? It warms my heart.
NAYLOR: It`s a little shocking, yes. And I actually wrote a letter to Greg Evitt (ph) before I filed for divorce when he went against the Dallas couple and told him he could be the champion for abolishing gay marriage if he would just support gay divorce not knowing I was going to file.
BEHAR: Well, what`s the latest on your legal battle exactly?
NAYLOR: My divorce is final. It was ruled on by the judge February 10th. The final decree got into my hands on March 31st. And now just a few days ago the attorney general has filed a notice of appeal in my case, which is actually kind of strange because there`s another case very similar to mine going to a hearing tomorrow in Dallas in the appeals court.
BEHAR: So -- but what`s his problem? Why is he -- why won`t he let you get divorced in Texas? You already got it. He`s overturning the ruling, right?
NAYLOR: Absolutely. He`s appealing a final decree divorce, I believe, for political posturing. It is an election year; he wants to look really strong for the conservative vote.
There was no reason to appeal my case with an almost identical case already going to an appeals hearing in just a few days. It just seemed quite absurd to me, actually.
BEHAR: Well, he said that, quote, "It`s an attack on Texas constitution. If they recognize gay divorce they have to recognize gay marriage." He has a point in a way, doesn`t he?
NAYLOR: I slightly disagree because same-sex marriage is constitutionally banned. It is not possible for two people of the same gender to get married in Texas unless the people voted again and overturned the law. So I do disagree and he can recognize the marriage for the sole purpose of granting the divorce and extend full faith and credit to the state of Massachusetts by granting the divorce.
BEHAR: Right. You`re saying one thing doesn`t necessarily have to do with the other anyway? He`s just posturing.
NAYLOR: He`s just posturing. I believe them to be separate issues, yes.
BEHAR: Ok. What not get divorced in Massachusetts now?
NAYLOR: There`s a one-year residency requirement and my spouse and I -- my former spouse and I have a 4-year-old boy, business, our parents all live here. Our parents are elderly. It just didn`t make economic or financial sense to move to the state of Massachusetts for an entire year when all Texas had to do was extend full faith and credit and go ahead and grant the divorce.
BEHAR: I see. So what are you going to do? What`s your next step?
NAYLOR: Waiting to hear what the Dallas ruling will be and I believe that that hearing is tomorrow and from there deciding what our stance will be with the attorney general. My case is slightly different in that the attorney general is trying to intervene after the fact. However, in the Dallas case he got to those guys before their divorce was final.
So my case, while similar, is slightly different and I think our constitutional arguments will be a little bit different as well.
BEHAR: Ok. Well, Angelique thank you very much for joining us tonight and good luck with your situation. Ok.
NAYLOR: Thank you, joy.
BEHAR: All right.
Sandra Bullock was spotted without her wedding ring. I`ll have details next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: First Sandra Bullock moved out of the house and now she`s being seen out in public again. Thank goodness, I was starting to feel a little grey gardensy there. According to new photos exclusives from "Entertainment Tonight" she`s no longer wearing her wedding ring. Is this a symbolic move to telegraph that she`s done with Jesse James and ready to move on with her life. With me to discuss this and much more is John Fugelsang. It`s really not that easy to say your name.
JOHN FUGELSANG, COMEDIAN: You are telling me.
BEHAR: Actor and comedian. Nancy Giles social commentator and contributor to CBS early morning. And Jon Robin Baitz playwright and the creator of "BROTHERS AND SISTERS," a great show. Unfortunately he`s no longer with them. But still it was great when you were with them.
JON ROBIN BAITZ, PLAYWRIGHT: Thanks, very much. It still has it`s --
BEHAR: But he created the show. I love it.
FUGELSANG: Yes - orphans.
BEHAR: OK.
NANCY GILES, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: You`re it.
BAITZ: That`s for off the air, actually. But no.
BEHAR: So now let`s talk about Sandra, which is on the air. She had to come out eventually, right?
GILES: Right.
BEHAR: So she`s out now. She had to come out of the house. What does it mean? Why is she making a big sort of like a to-do about not wearing the ring?
GILES: Well is she making the big to-do, or I mean were cameras following her around to try to get the left hand picture. You know what I mean?
BEHAR: Well come on, let`s be real, she knows.
BAITZ: Would you wear the ring if, you know, had been lied to kind of from dawn to dusk? You wouldn`t wear the ring either.
BEHAR: No.
GILES: And if your significant other were dancing around with white supremacist sympathizers, would you still wear the ring?
BEHAR: Well I think that, look how pretty she is. What - doesn`t it do -- the fact remains that part of the conversations we`ve had over the months about this or weeks is that she was married to this guy with his Nazi memorabilia. And everybody is like, hello, the girl next door doesn`t know that`s what he`s into?
FUGELSANG: Well first of all, I got to say, he among you who hasn`t cheated on his Oscar winning wife with a white power tattoo model can cast the first stone.
(LAUGHTER)
FUGELSANG: But with that said.
BEHAR: OK.
FUGELSANG: If she had chosen to stay with him and support it and try to make the marriage work, I would have been behind it. No one is going to fault her especially in Hollywood for breaking up with a guy to makes Nazi sex tapes. The Nazi`s didn`t make Nazi sex tapes but I think that by going out with a bare fingered, no ring that`s a lot cheaper than hiring a publicist to announce it for her.
BEHAR: Right well she has a publicist, I`m sure.
BAITZ: I happen to have some Nazi sex tape -
GILES: That`s really, really wrong. This is a whole subcategory. That`s so wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
GILES: Oh, my god. But I mean, how could she not know? Except I feel like she didn`t know. I think a lot of times women don`t know, you know?
(CROSSTALK)
BAITZ: It`s -- a movie star, it takes all day and night.
GILES: It is hard work.
BAITZ: And why would you know, the motorcycle -
GILES: We don`t even know her, that`s the thing. But everybody has a little invested in it. But I`m sorry, I think she`s a good, cool person, and I think he`s a jerk.
BEHAR: Yes.
FUGELSANG: It`s the worse thing to happen to her since "Speed 2: Cruise Control."
BEHAR: OK. Let`s move on. Let`s talk about Oscar winning actress, another Oscar winning actress in the news today. The brother of Oscar winner Mo`nique went on Oprah yesterday to apologize for molesting her had they were children. It was easier I guess for him to get booked on Oprah than to pick up and call his sister directly, you know? Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERALD IMES, MO`NIQUE`S BROTHER: I abused and betrayed the trust of another sibling, my sister. My blood sister. I`m sorry, Mo`nique. I`m sorry baby, I`m sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: What is this about? I mean, I have Mo`nique`s phone number in case he wants to call her. You know, it`s like, why does he have to go on television and do this? Robby?
BAITZ: I really - I don`t understand when private life became public and public became entirely public. I don`t know. In my family you were taught to lie, quietly lie until someone got cancer and not to share these things, you know? I don`t understand why it`s sort of -- it`s the end of the world really.
GILES: Well I just feel like I have to say that I want to represent the black women in this country who haven`t been molested by their brothers and haven`t been incested by their fathers. And I know that because I come from a very funny family that when I do write book -- I`m working on a book -- it won`t be part of Oprah`s book club because it`s too happy.
(CROSSTALK)
GILES: Not in her world. But I`m not trying to make fun of that. That has happened to people, but it`s getting so tiresome that every story about a black women that`s beaten, raped, you know, drawn and quartered and stuff like that, I just can`t handle it.
FUGELSANG: Did he wait until after the Oscars to do this?
BEHAR: Right, she`s got cash now, too.
FUGELSANG: Well she`s had cash for a while. You know Mo`nique. She know she look good. And I love Mo`nique. She`s a wonderful person and she deserved the Oscar. But she`s married sort of.
GILES: OK, right, sort of.
FUGELSANG: Here`s the thing. By this guy doing this, apologizing is not the same as taking responsibility for your actions. And he may have done that privately and he may choose to. Whether this was a self-serving thing like the parents there with collateral damage. All I can say is every time someone goes public about this -
BEHAR: Yes.
FUGELSANG: It makes it harder for someone to interfere with a child. Say what you want about this guy yesterday, by him doing this he`s more or less damned himself for the rest of the life. But he has made it tougher for someone to get away with interfering with a child.
BEHAR: You really think so?
FUGELSANG: The moral -- our grandmothers had no recourse that this was happening to them. Now the more people talk about it, the more victims, and in this case, an abuser comes forward and takes responsibility, the tougher it is going to be for someone else to get away with it.
BAITZ: I think it teaches them that they can get booked on Oprah on Wednesday night. And just come --
BEHAR: Yes.
FUGELSANG: Where is he going to be booked after this? Now he`s got - he`s going to have the mark of a molester.
(CROSSTALK_
GILES: No, he`ll get a he reality show here.
FUGELSANG: No he won`t.
BAITZ: We are talking about an immoral universe. Like there is -
FUGELSANG: Listen I can think of a few popes that can come forward and they can mea culpa like that more than this guy.
GILES: And that would be just.
BEHAR: A few popes?
FUGELSANG: Oh yes, a few popes, actually -
GILES: So it is actually past and present.
FUGELSANG: Several hundreds years of popes.
BEHAR: OK, here`s another, speaking of Europe, let`s move on to something else.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Roman Polanski, how`s that for a segue?
FUGELSANG: -- stories.
GILES: Oh dear.
BEHAR: Roman Polanski wrote a letter to President Obama asking for leniency. We all know what he did. He molested and attacked a 13-year-old girl.
GILES: That`s right.
FUGELSANG: And drugged her.
BEHAR: Years and years ago, he`s old now.
GILES: And drugged her.
BEHAR: Guess who delivered it, guess who delivered the letter? French President Nicolas Sarkozy. OK, now, how cool is it to have the president -- have the president of France be your personal mailman?
GILES: Courier.
BEHAR: Come on.
FUGELSANG: That`s like Art Kelly giving a letter from Obama to the president of Jamaica. It is fantastic. You know and this is interesting because it will only help Obama to reject this. And I mean there`s no way he can even consider the offer. I don`t really understand.
BEHAR: It`s gross. Can you imagine what the GOP would do to him if he delivered that letter, did something with that letter?
GILES: Plenty of women would do the same thing. You go and I`ll go.
BAITZ: You go.
GILES: All I was going to say is, I love how the hoi polloi try to manipulate, you know, law and things like that. I mean, I was so surprised to hear he`s going to deliver the letter.
BAITZ: Because it`s France, you know, and in France this is their lingua francas, it is sort of sexually, you know --
BEHAR: Lingua Franca I think that`s a very interesting technique.
GILES: That`s Spanish actually.
BAITZ: It`s Latin for the language of -- they`ve been doing this -- did anybody se it?
BEHAR: Or is that an airline. Air lingua-
BAITZ: They deliver letters for other people, the perfumed letters I`m sure.
GILES: You are right. Or jewels even.
BAITZ: I`m sure.
GILES: I just think it`s - I still think that --
BAITZ: I mean who can blame him for writing to Obama. I mean, it`s not like Obama is busy.
(LAUGHTER)
FUGELSANG: I think he should be kept out of the country for that Oliver Twist remake alone. So you shouldn`t let him in just for that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You know I just saw Roman Polanski, did you see "Ghostwriter." It`s really good. "Ghostwriter" yes, really terrific film. You know, now, you`re an artist in the same sort of category, Robby. You know you are a great play write. I don`t know if people realize how great a play write you are. And Polanski is a great artist and a lot of people in Hollywood and Europe have rallied around Polanski because he`s a great artist. Do you think a great artist should get a pass since this happened many, many years ago and the girl he molested doesn`t want to press charges?
BAITZ: This is what I think about this. It`s become a way for people to sort of impose their own interesting morality on something that has absolutely nothing with them. And so we get to feel better about ourselves when we talk about Polanski one way or the other. I actually think it`s sort of between Roman Polanski and the law, and everything else seems to be like the pinning of badges on people`s chests. I approve and disapprove. In fact it has actually nothing to do with anybody, and I`ve been really -- I`ve been really struck by that the entire time. It`s a litmus test for people of who and what they seem to be.
BEHAR: OK. We can do one more story if we really go fast. OK, last night at a fund-raiser for Barbara Boxer President Obama took a break from being screamed at by extremists on the Right to get heckled by Gay Rights supporters on the Left. Let`s watch.
(BEGIN VIDE CLIP)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: She`s passionate about fighting for jobs, jobs with good wages, jobs with good benefits. She`s passionate about fighting for California`s families. She is -- we are going to do that. Hey, hold on a second. Hold on a second. We are going to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: What Jon, you got a headache?
FUGELSANG: Well they`re not protesting the war. They`re protesting they can`t enlist, which they wouldn`t do anyway? You want to protest, go to Bill Clinton`s house. He`s the one who signed it.
GILES: Exactly, that`s exactly what I was going to say.
BEHAR: Well he`s not the president anymore, so what`s the point of going to Bill Clinton`s house?
GILES: To jump in on what Jon said, I`ll tell you what gets me, people are angrier for President Obama for trying to undo the actual law that President Clinton enabled. I mean, look, the don`t tell part is built-in shame about who you are. I don`t feel like some of the professional people really understand how politics work and how it takes time to undo these things.
BAITZ: They`re not supposed to. They`re not suppose to. They`re supposed to fight for this thing in a way that actually makes sense. They`re not like the tea party guys ranting and raving. You know these are people who put their faith in Obama and the president and who have been asked again and again and again to take a back seat.
GILES: But look at what he`s done.
FUGELSANG: The Democratic Party will throw gays under the bus -
BAITZ: Absolutely.
FUGELSANG: Just the way the Republican Party throws pro-lifers under the bus. It`s not a Harry Truman thing where you can sign an executive order and lift this like you --
GILES: But I have to interrupt, guys. He`s actually having hearings, he`s got military people who are saying they are supporting it. Get mad at John McCain.
FUGELSANG: I understand -
GILES: And he`s only been in office for a year.
BEHAR: All right, we got to go - very interesting, thank you.
BAITZ: What? That`s it.
BEHAR: All so much, I know, it goes so fast. Up next I`m joined by one of the stars from the hit show "THE GOOD WIFE." Christine Baranski, I love that show, too. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE BARANSKI, ACTRESS: Women like Sarah Palin, and I -- I think she`s the devil incarnate. I mean how can you be for back alley abortions?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The murder of 1.2 --
BARANSKI: Don`t, don`t talk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stoically silent?
BARANSKI: I can`t.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was the very talented Christine Baranski for one of my favorite shows this season, "THE GOOD WIFE." Baranski`s character is always one to speak her mind, and that`s why I like her so much. And Christine is the same way. So please welcome Tony Award Winning and Emmy Award Winner Christine Baranski.
BARANSKI: So nice to be here.
BEHAR: You know I love the show but I love that little thing you were having with this Republican guy.
BARANSKI: I know isn`t it incredible? It`s so brilliant of the writers to have a woman with such a passionate, liberal so much her own woman kind of have the hots and be intrigued by this Marlboro man guy whose politics is just 180 from her own.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
BARANSKI: And yet you know, I actually am shooting more scenes with him tomorrow. They`re keeping that story alive because it`s so interesting.
BEHAR: It`s a great story.
BARANSKI: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s like Mary Matalin and James Carville.
BARANSKI: I know.
BEHAR: I wonder do they want to kill each other or make up in bed tonight.
BARANSKI: I know well my character, you see that scene, and she says no, no, no I can`t. Three generations of Democratic ancestors are screaming out in protest. And then she swigs down some white wine and then she has another sort of white wine and then she plants a huge kiss on him, right?
BEHAR: Right.
BARANSKI: If you watch the episode.
BEHAR: I did.
BARANSKI: Then she walks out. And you think, OK, well, she just stood by her principles. In the courtroom it`s revealed that she went to his room. So what I make sense of it like, OK, she has a real problem with his politics, but he`s probably great in bed and with enough white wine, you know, and so - to answer your question --
BEHAR: Yes. Is that how you did the scene? Do you think that you could --
BARANSKI: Well you never see them together. You never see them go off together. It`s just implied -
BEHAR: It`s implied -
BARANSKI: That they were together, and now we`re going to consider the story.
BEHAR: Yes, but I mean, you as an actress - do you think - first of all, in your real life could you ever be with someone who disagreed with you politically?
BARANSKI: That is such an interesting question. I doubt it. I mean the man I have married, is very much, we`re the same thing politically.
BEHAR: Yes.
BARANSKI: I would have a real problem with it.
BEHAR: You`d always be arguing.
BARANSKI: And I don`t think I`d find it sexy in this political climate. Can you imagine?
BEHAR: Maybe during the Eisenhower administration, you would have found it better, easier to do?
BARANSKI: Yes, yes. Given how polarized things are now, it would be very, very difficult.
BEHAR: Your character really just can`t stand Sarah Palin. I mean there`s a venom. Do you feel that way too?
BARANSKI: I often have to leave the room.
BEHAR: Really you can`t even watch her.
BARANSKI: You know, I ask this question of a lot of people, would she have gotten the mileage that she has if she looked like Janet Reno?
BEHAR: Absolutely not. It`s all about how cute she is and she is a good looking woman.
BARANSKI: That`s fabulous, she`s so camera -
BEHAR: She`s photogenic.
BARANSKI: She pops in the camera, and she has the sound bites and voice and all but without that personality, forget it.
BEHAR: Yes, I noticed the same with that other one, Michelle Bachmann. She`s a good looking broad also. But they have the same ridiculous politics. I can`t even talk about it. You know the premise of "THE GOOD WIFE" is timely.
BARANSKI: Yes, it`s amazing.
BEHAR: Wow. They really came right there, you know, with Silda Spitzer. You know that whole thing and really sort of parallels that, doesn`t it?
BARANSKI: It does, it was kind of loosely based or not so loosely based on the Eliot Spitzer scandal. But we shot the pilot last March, and since the pilot was aired -- since it was shot we had Mark Sanford and Jenny -
BEHAR: Right.
BARANSKI: We had the president scandal in Italy, we had the continuing, you know, John Edwards thing that unfolded. Oh my Lord, does it get any worse that? And of course, the gift that keeps giving, Tiger Woods.
BEHAR: Yes, right.
BARANSKI: So this guys, just -
(LAUGHTER)
BARANSKI: It makes our show more and more pertinent. It`s like -- and now Spitzer is going to get back into the game.
BEHAR: Well he`s going to try.
BARANSKI: He`s going to try, as is the character on our show played by Chris Noth.
BEHAR: But I love Chris Noth.
BARANSKI: He`s wonderful.
BEHAR: He`s so sexy. To me he`s like a modern day victim mature for some reason.
BARANSKI: Yes, yes, yes.
BEHAR: If anyone remembers that.
BARANSKI: He`s masculine - and I think he`s doing his best work on this show.
BEHAR: Uh huh. But you know the public humiliation is so captured by Julianna Margulies, too.
BARANSKI: I know, I know.
BEHAR: The two of you have a great relationship on the show.
BARANSKI: Yes it is, people just thought I would be the bitchy, bitchy boss and you know I`m going to give her a hard time. But it`s not necessarily gone that way.
BEHAR: No.
BARANSKI: Which I love again about the writing. It doesn`t fall into those, you know, stereotypes that people are so accustomed to. And I think that`s why people and especially women are so grateful for the show. There`s a complexity of the women characters.
BEHAR: Yes, indeed. OK stay right there. We`ll be back with a little more after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the wonderful and talented Christine Baranski. You know, I was thinking about -- I was thinking about getting contact lenses. Why should I get them --
BARANSKI: Funny you should say that, Joy. Because the reason that I`m here, honestly, is because I`m working with Bosche and Lombe on a campaign for multi-focal contact lenses. Which would liberate you from --
BEHAR: Are those the progressive ones where you --
BARANSKI: No, they`re not progressive. This is a more sophisticated lens. And you can see close, you can see medium, you can see far, and it does what the eye can naturally do which adjust to distance very gracefully, very naturally. And most people --
BEHAR: Are you wearing them?
BARANSKI: I am wearing them, my darling.
BEHAR: Because I suddenly recently found out I had this astigmatism which I never had before. Everything is sort of blurry.
BARANSKI: Well you know what, it`s -- 50 million Americans apparently after the age of 40 begin to have problems with their vision, usually with reading.
BEHAR: Yes, usually with reading.
BARANSKI: It gets a little blurry. With me, I don`t know about you, but I found myself at more dress-up events where I have to read off a card or I`m in front of an audience and I`m all dolled up, I have the jewels, darling, I have the hair, everything and I have to stick the glasses on. Because I actually need bifocals.
BEHAR: Yes.
BARANSKI: So I`ve spent many, many years, over 15 years with glasses that have bifocal lenses and prescription sunglasses and I lose them and then I -- it`s a fortune to replace them. You can`t stick it in evening bag. You`re all dressed up as I say. You don`t want to --
BEHAR: This is like --
BARANSKI: This is cool to have these lenses.
BEHAR: I`m going to get them, I think. I mean it. I`m going to get them because I need them to read the prompters and everything else. The glasses -- you should see my pocketbook. I have three pairs of glasses in there now and I`m getting another pair.
BARANSKI: And our pocketbooks are crammed with -- our apartment is in our apartment books. You know the great monologue about the handbags.
BEHAR: Yes, that`s right.
BARANSKI: It`s one less thing. You know imagine not having to dig into your handbag.
BEHAR: Yes, I`m definitely going to think about it because the glasses plus the earrings - plus the thing -- Sophia Lauren do you ever see her?
BARANSKI: Well you know, I always said -
BEHAR: She has everything but the kitchen sink --
BARANSKI: And then she puts the glasses on. If Sophia Lauren can look cool in the glasses, but then I think yes, but she`s Sophia Lauren, nobody`s looking at her glasses. She still has the cleavage, right?
BEHAR: Well, whatever.
BARANSKI: Anyway, you go to the website, goodbyereaders.com. Get all the information about the lenses.
BEHAR: OK, I will do that. Everyone will do that. I want to talk a minute -- I only have a minute left -- about you and Hollywood. Because I know you`re a New York actress.
BARANSKI: Yes.
BEHAR: How do you put up with Hollywood when you`re there?
BARANSKI: I don`t. For years I -- we raised our kids in Connecticut. I would go out and shoot "THE CYBIL SHOW" or I made movies and I was on the next flight out.
BEHAR: Community.
BARANSKI: I just lived in a hotel. I never put down roots in Hollywood. I was always, and I would go back to my little 18th century country house and kept the kids away from all of the --
BEHAR: Good for you.
BARANSKI: No television in the house. They were raised with no TV.
BEHAR: There`s a lot of pressure also when you`re -- the minute I step off the plane in L.A. I feel fat.
BARANSKI: Yes, I think it`s hard for women and I think now, I mean, I worked there in the mid-`90s. Now the, whoa, it`s such an exposed culture. We want to know everything. People have cameras -
BEHAR: I know.
BARANSKI: And tweeting and you can be in a restaurant. There`s no such thing as privacy.
BEHAR: Would you ever go to the beach and have them snap you in a bathing suit?
BARANSKI: When we made "Mamma Mia" the photographers were up in the trees. Merle wouldn`t come out.
BEHAR: Merle stayed in the tree?
(CROSSTALK)
BARANSKI: No, we wouldn`t come out of our hotel. They were out to get her. And Peterson (ph) just wanted the picture.
BEHAR: Oh boy.
BARANSKI: There`s nowhere to hide now.
BEHAR: There`s nowhere to hide. Thanks so much for joining me, Christine.
BARANSKI: Thank you darling, thank you.
BEHAR: And thank you all for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
