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Joy Behar Page

Sandra Bullock Bounces Back; Rielle Hunter Rants on "Oprah"; Arizona`s Immigration Controversy; Laughing with Leslie Jordan

Aired April 30, 2010 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, a recent survey says it`s healthier for women to be 10 or 15 pounds overweight. I don`t know whose survey it is but I`d like to buy them dinner and dessert.

Then the state of Arizona is under fire from all sides over its new immigration law. Well, we`re joining the discussion. Phil Donahue stops by to give us some pearls of wisdom.

Plus, Julia Roberts gets bumped off the cover of "People" magazine`s Most Beautiful Issue by new mother Sandra Bullock. What a disaster. Somebody call Anderson Cooper.

That and more, right now.

Sandra Bullock certainly knows how to turn the tables on fate. The once publicly-humiliated wife, the wife of Jesse James, announced this week in a "People" cover story that not only has she filed for divorce, she`s adopted a 3 1/2-month-old baby boy from New Orleans named Louis. Is there a better way to bounce back?

With me to discuss this and more dish of the week are Leslie Jordan actor and star of "My Trip Down the Pink Carpet"; Donatella Arpaia, chef and author of "Donatella Cooks"; and comedian, Maz Jobrani.

First of all, can I say to you guys, how did she keep that a secret from January until now?

LESLIE JORDAN, ACTOR: It must, like, a CIA operative.

BEHAR: Really?

JORDAN: Something just amazingly thought out.

DONATELLA ARPAIA, AUTHOR, "DONATELLA COOKS": I love it. I love it.

I think if you want to keep a secret, you`re going to keep it. And I think celebrities when the secrets come out, it`s because they want it to come out most of the time. I really do.

BEHAR: Yes. What do you think, Maz?

MAZ JOBRANI, COMEDIAN: I feel bad because it`s like the baby went from a broken home to now another broken home. But the good news is that the celebrity mom that adopted him is Sandra Bullock and not, you know, Courtney Love or somebody like that.

BEHAR: Courtney`s clean. I had her on "The View" the other day and she`s clean. She`s been sober for six years so --

JOBRANI: But, still, as a mom, Sandra --

BEHAR: Give her a break. Give her a break. She`s trying hard, you know?

But there`s a silver lining, like, the whole mess when you see that picture of the Madonna and child on "People" magazine, it like, erases all the bad stuff, doesn`t it?

JORDAN: Well, you know, she -- her decisions are her decisions, and it`s really hard to -- you know, I was raised if you can`t be kind, be vague so --

BEHAR: If you can`t be kind, be vague? I love that. Isn`t it ironic that Sandra and Jesse had a bris for the baby when he`s like in love with all that Nazi paraphernalia?

ARPAIA: I didn`t know -- what religion is Sandra?

BEHAR: Sandra -- I don`t believe she`s Jewish. No one`s Jewish in this. Maybe they did it for the catering but isn`t that odd, though?

JOBRANI: And as a black baby, maybe he was a Muslim baby, maybe that was like, you know, you`re Jewish now, you`re in L.A., you`re Jewish, let`s do this.

BEHAR: What about the timing of the adoption? It sort of makes Jesse James look even worse, doesn`t it?

JOBRANI: Well, it takes four years. That`s what I read, it took them four years which blew my mind, because this is Sandra Bullock, she should just be able to just go down to the adoption agency and say, give me a chocolate, a plane, and a maple and just adopt three kids and be -- I mean it takes so long to adopt the kid. And I think that there should be the policy -- we should have -- if we`re that stringent about adoption policy, we should be that stringent about some people having babies. There`s some people that shouldn`t be having babies.

BEHAR: Oh, really? How do you expect to enforce that, may I ask?

JOBRANI: You know, like it took a driver`s license to pass. I don`t know, you have to do a test. It took four years and I know a lot of, like, teenagers that have a baby in my opinion should not. I think a lot of people`s opinion shouldn`t be having babies and I just feel that she seems like a good mother. I don`t know.

BEHAR: It`s really none of your business.

(CROSSTALK)

JOBRANI: It is true. I know. And it is your show. It is none of my business.

ARPAIA: Can I ask you something? What`s happening to the adopted daughter of Sandra Bullock and Jesse James, did she officially adopt her, the daughter?

BEHAR: I don`t know if there`s an official adoption --

ARPAIA: Because she`s been pretty stable in her life and I`m wondering if that`s going to stay that way.

BEHAR: She was very good for those kids and I think that they are trying to work that out. My information is they`re trying to work it out.

JORDAN: And I think also, in here -- in all of her -- everything she said to the press, she`s left it open, you know? If he`s in recovery, I have to say with 12 years of recovery under my belt, you know, if he`s really serious about it, it`s going to be hard for her to forgive. I think the hardest thing was unprotected sex. I mean you`re bringing --

BEHAR: Yes.

ARPAIA: That`s the hardest thing?

JORDAN: Well, you`re bringing into your bed a --

BEHAR: That`s right.

JORDAN: -- not only a tattooed, but what we -- a tattooed biker chick, but you`re bringing into the marital bed --

ARPAIA: But he`s a biker guy. I mean --

JORDAN: But you`re bringing into the marital bed everyone she slept with for the last five years.

BEHAR: I agree with that, I think that`s really what the sin is in this case.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: It`s one of the worst parts of it in my opinion is that you`re bringing something unhealthy into your own bedroom because you`ve been out shtooping everything that walked.

Ok. Let`s move on to Rielle Hunter. Good segue. She appeared on Oprah and insisted she wasn`t the one who broke up the John Edwards` marriage. Like O.J. Simpson she`s going to spend her time looking for the real home wrecker.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OPRAH WINFREY, TV HOST: Home wrecker?

RIELLE HUNTER, JOHN EDWARDS` MISTRESS: Absolutely not. It`s not my experience that a third party can -- wrecks the home.

I believe the problems exist before a third party comes into the picture.

WINFREY: So you don`t think you wrecked his home?

HUNTER: I do not believe I wrecked his home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Ok, Maz. Is she completely delusional or just partly delusional?

JOBRANI: No I think -- first of all, I think that there was probably trouble in the marriage before.

BEHAR: Right.

JOBRANI: One of the things I would criticize Edwards for is his choice in women to be with. I just don`t find her that attractive. You know --

BEHAR: Again, very judgmental man.

JOBRANI: I am judgmental. That`s -- I come in with opinions here.

BEHAR: I love it.

JOBRANI: No, but, you know, one of the things that, you know, she was saying also was that she said that I guess that Edwards revealed on air that he had cheated but he didn`t reveal about the baby?

BEHAR: Yes, right.

JOBRANI: And so she was saying that -- that Elizabeth had pushed them to get on air. Anyway, long story short as I`m going --

BEHAR: Yes. Please. It`s only an hour show.

JOBRANI: I feel that -- that Edwards -- that the interviewer didn`t do his job in getting the information out about the baby. He should have asked a trick question at the end, you know, with the baby are you breastfeeding or formula. Formula, you got me. Whatever.

BEHAR: Now what about the fact that the baby, Donatella, Rielle told Oprah that they didn`t use birth control. I mean hello.

ARPAIA: I mean this happens all the time with politicians though and she`s not the -- I was watching the interview for a few minutes -- she`s not sharpest tool in the shed.

BEHAR: She`s not?

ARPAIA: She seemed very vacuous, very boring, very uninteresting. I don`t think she did anything for her cause.

I don`t think she`s a home wrecker. I think he`s the main problem but I don`t think she has a good moral compass here.

JORDAN: Is she looking for sympathy?

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: I don`t know.

ARPAIA: What is she looking for?

JORDAN: You know what I thought was the most inappropriate thing about the whole -- that she calls him Johnny.

BEHAR: Why does that irritate to?

JORDAN: I don`t know because it seems to me like that`s a real stab at the wife.

BEHAR: It is. You`re right.

JORDAN: Johnny, Johnny, this --

BEHAR: He belongs to me.

JORDAN: Yes, Johnny, a little pet name or something that she --

ARPAIA: And she didn`t take any accountability for any of her actions. She kept answering Oprah, like, "I feel this way," like you have to ask her that question. She was just annoying.

BEHAR: She is annoying.

ARPAIA: She was so annoying.

(CROSSTALK)

JORDAN: This is a marriage that has survived --

BEHAR: She should have called him --

(CROSSTALK)

JORDAN: This is a marriage that has survived the death of a child. They restarted a family. This is a family --

Right.

JORDAN: -- that weathered, you know, a lot, and so she comes in saying, I don`t know, I don`t get it.

BEHAR: This is sordid, isn`t it Maz?

JOBRANI: And also as you were saying before this is, again, unprotected sex. So he`s bringing with him whatever else this crazy lady that is delusional as --

JORDAN: It`s the same thing with the Tiger Woods` debacle. He had unprotected sex and I just thought --

BEHAR: I know.

JORDAN: -- what is it with straight men --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: You`re right, because the gay community has been --

JORDAN: We know.

BEHAR: -- it`s been told.

JORDAN: Have been told, you are sleeping with everyone that he slept with for the last five years and that`s that.

JOBRANI: Trojan condoms should do an ad, if you`re going to cheat, use Trojan.

JORDAN: They should.

BEHAR: Very good Maz.

And finally Laura Bush has written a book about her time in the White House and it contains a couple of real doozies including a suspicion that she and the president might have been poisoned on a state trip to Germany. Ok. So, could the former first frau be a little paranoid, Donatella?

ARPAIA: I think I would be -- wouldn`t you be paranoid if you were Bush`s wife at that time? I would be a little paranoid, I think if it`s food poisoning, but I don`t blame her for being a little paranoid.

BEHAR: Go ahead, Leslie.

JORDAN: Listen, this is so southern to me. I know southern women. It`s something my mother would probably -- I can just hear her right now, you know. "George had a tummy ache for three days and I just know we were poisoned," you know? Where did that come from?

BEHAR: Why does everyone from the south sound like Paula Deen? But, Maz, not for nothing, you`re Iranian. Did Ahmadinejad --

JOBRANI: I had nothing to do with it. I wasn`t there.

BEHAR: What about Ahmadinejad?

JOBRANI: I`d say why blame the Germans. Why didn`t she write about the time his own Secret Service almost killed him by leaving him alone in a room with a pretzel? I mean this guy --

BEHAR: Exactly.

JOBRANI: Right.

BEHAR: And also he had time to give Angela Merkel a massage while he was there, so how sick could he have been, do you know what I mean?

Now, Laura also says in the book that she tried to discourage Bush from opposing same-sex marriage, because they have gay friends. What do you think? First of all, do you believe they have gay friends?

JORDAN: I do, I do believe. I say when she was on the "Ellen DeGeneres Show", Ellen -- I thought this was hilarious -- asked, can I borrow the ranch for my wedding and there was this laugh that Barbara Bush gave that I thought --

BEHAR: You mean Laura Bush?

JORDAN: Laura. Who did I say?

BEHAR: Barbara Bush.

JORDAN: Barbara -- Laura Bush gave a little laugh that I thought to myself that`s the whole story.

And the story is you have Karl Rove whispering we`ve got these Christians and they`re a political gold mine but we`re going to have to pretend and la-la-la. I saw the whole thing, I forgave her.

BEHAR: You forgave Laura?

JORDAN: Thank you Laura. I forgave Laura, right then and there.

BEHAR: We forgive Laura. Ok Laura is you know, she`s married to him, that`s enough punishment for the whole life.

Thanks, everyone. and if you`re in New York, catch Maz at Caroline`s Friday through Sunday. And you can see Leslie in his one man show "My Trip down the Pink Carpet" and you can catch Donatella on the Food Network.

We`ll be back in a minute with the debate on Arizona`s controversial immigration crackdown with Phil Donahue and Alex Castellanos.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Well, Arizona has a new immigration law and to call it controversial would be to underestimate it. It requires police to stop an individual if there is reasonable suspicion that he or she is in this country illegally. Critics say the law will make Arizona feel more like World War II Germany than a part of the United States.

With me to talk about it and more are Phil Donahue, former talk show host and Alex Castellanos, Republican consultant and CNN political contributor. Ok guys, you like how I said that, Alex?

ALEX CASTELLANOS, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: Yes it`s very nice. I don`t know how you ever get that. We`ve got a "Hey you."

BEHAR: Alejandro Castellanos. Are you Cuban?

CASTELLANOS: Yes.

BEHAR: I heard you were Cuban. So --

PHIL DONAHUE, FORMER TALK SHOW HOST: How old were you when you got here?

CASTELLANOS: Six and a half years old. And Americans have been very, very good to me.

BEHAR: Yes, very good to you.

Now, this Arizona Governor, Jan Brewer, says there won`t be any racial profiling. How is that possible, Alex?

CASTELLANOS: I think it`s kind of tough. You know, if looking like an illegal alien is going to get you in trouble, then you know, my driver`s license picture is going to get me deported. How can you tell, you can`t.

I think that`s one of the reasons this law may be unconstitutional. In addition to the fact that the federal government Constitution says that it`s the federal government`s job to deal with immigration, not the state.

So I think there is some real trouble here.

BEHAR: Do you think it`s kind of -- doesn`t it feel like sort of Nazism a little bit I mean -

CASTELLANOS: Oh no, come on.

BEHAR: I don`t want to overstate it, but may I see your papers you know?

DONAHUE: You know what I just don`t understand -- first of all, I believe that the political establishment, Governor Brewer and others in Arizona did this as a cry for help. She made that clear when she announced the reason for her support of this. But I have no doubt that -- if this isn`t unconstitutional --

BEHAR: What is?

DONAHUE: You know and then I think we`ve -- the last administration turned its back on the entire Bill of Rights. And now we`re walking up to people and say, oh let me see your papers.

BEHAR: It`s creepy.

CASTELLANOS: Well --

BEHAR: Alex?

CASTELLANOS: Yes, I think Phil`s right about one thing, it is kind of a cry for help from folks in Arizona. Why does 70 percent of the state support this? Has 70 percent of the state all of a sudden become racist or become evil people? No.

The TEA Party folks in Arizona who are supporting this, those same TEA Party people in Florida are supporting Marco Rubio, a Cuban kid.

BEHAR: But a very conservative Cuban kid.

CASTELLANOS: But a conservative but still you would think --

BEHAR: Very conservative.

CASTELLANOS: -- that they`re unusually tolerant racists here if you had all of this stuff. It doesn`t -- no -- this is a state where, on the border there`s a civil war where kids have been shot in their car seats around that border. And these people are desperate to secure the border, a job the federal government has failed to do.

BEHAR: But it`s --

CASTELLANOS: And by the way a lot of Democrats --

BEHAR: Yes.

CASTELLANOS: -- ignored that job for years and years and years.

BEHAR: But doesn`t this sort of take time away from the police who are looking for criminals? They`ll be stopping innocent Hispanics when they should be actually looking for criminals. I don`t think it`s very, very, you know practical, frankly.

CASTELLANOS: Well, it doesn`t seem to be practical. I don`t think that it`s very workable. I think it is going to be a real problem to enforce.

But you can understand why desperate people, you know, when this kind of thing is happening on your border and is affecting your security, really you`re on the edge of a civil war and your government is not protecting you.

Now, legally, of course, because the federal government fails to do its job doesn`t mean the state is authorized to do it.

BEHAR: I love how Republicans, sometimes they want big government, and sometimes they won`t -- they don`t. I mean, in this case, they would like the federal government to come in and help them.

CASTELLANOS: We have to.

BEHAR: When it comes to my uterus, they want to intrude this into that. And yet they want no government when it comes to taxes. Can`t you guys make up your mind?

CASTELLANOS: You know what? That`s a fair criticism of some Republicans. We should stay out of your bedroom, your uterus. I`ll leave it your hand and others. But the --

BEHAR: Well put.

CASTELLANOS: Yes, yes but no, it`s -- it`s a --

DONAHUE: A way with words.

CASTELLANOS: No, we have to stay out of folks` bedroom. And if we`re going to use, if we`re going to cheat and cut across the track and use big government to enforce our values, we can`t complain when others do it to enforce theirs.

DONAHUE: Where are the other Republicans?

BEHAR: Like you --

DONAHUE: And why aren`t they seeing this? I have friends -- some of my best friends, believe it or not, and they don`t know what happened to their party.

By the way, let me ask you as a reasonable man, who is heading the Republican Party right now? It certainly isn`t Michael Steele. Is it Mitch McConnell?

CASTELLANOS: You know, one of the things, one of the problems for being the party out of power is that you`re -- you don`t have a general, you don`t have a leader, you have many. And that`s the same thing the Democrats suffered when they were out of power. Guess what happens? When you have a presidential campaign, you find your voice, you find your leader.

DONAHUE: So you got to wait another two years?

CASTELLANOS: I`m afraid that`s what is going to happen. But you know what? There is a new generation of leaders coming up in the Republican Party.

BEHAR: But Alex --

CASTELLANOS: Mitch Daniels, the governor --

BEHAR: Yes.

CASTELLANOS: -- of Indiana, who`s a new Republican leader who is doing well. And you`ll have others emerge; nothing new grew in the shade of the big Bush tree for eight years. That big tree is gone now; you`re seeing new leaders sprout up.

BEHAR: You know, some people would say that Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh are the leaders of the party. How do you respond to that?

CASTELLANOS: Well, you know, Rush Limbaugh was around on the radio when George Bush was in the White House and Rush Limbaugh wasn`t the leader. Again, it`s the same here --

BEHAR: Well, because he was so pro Bush.

DONAHUE: You have a Republican president, obviously he`s the leader.

BEHAR: Yes.

DONAHUE: Now you`re really in a nuclear forest here.

CASTELLANOS: Not really, not really. You know it`s funny --

BEHAR: And what`s going to happen to the GOP with the Hispanic vote with this kind of Arizona thing happening?

DONAHUE: What`s going to happen to the GOP?

BEHAR: It`s not good for the Republicans.

CASTELLANOS: Well, no, especially if they start exporting their media consultants, we don`t want that to happen they are political guys. We want them to stay. I`ve brought my credentials.

BEHAR: Well, you are an American citizen. May I see your license?

CASTELLANOS: Actually, I have -- I have my passport here today, just in case you ask -- I knew it.

BEHAR: See how does it -- doesn`t it feel bad when someone says that, can I see your papers, can I see your license?

CASTELLANOS: That`s not the country that I came to.

BEHAR: That is not the country.

CASTELLANOS: We came here from Cuba.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: And also what about Canadians, who are on the other ends of the border there.

CASTELLANOS: Yes.

BEHAR: Are they going to be stopping Canadians? Because they have blond hair and blue eyes, I don`t think so.

CASTELLANOS: No. But you know, America is a country that needs promise and hope and vision to bring out the best in its people. And right now we`re looking for that kind of leadership. Somebody says it`s going to be all right, we`re all going to be more prosperous, more successful, follow me into the future.

That was Obama`s great gift in the campaign. He`s lost it. He`s now -- you know it`s us against them; business against workers.

DONAHUE: Oh, wait, wait a minute.

CASTELLANOS: He`s a very divisive force.

BEHAR: You know what? Ok. We`ve got to go, Alex, Phil. Thank you so much.

DONAHUE: Thank you for letting me stay.

BEHAR: Ok.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Actor Leslie Jordan is best known for his memorable roles on "Murphy Brown", "Boston Legal" and his Emmy-winning performance on "Will & Grace". Now he`s on stage at New York`s Midtown Theater in his one-man show, "My Trip Down the Pink Carpet". Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JORDAN: I am just going to tell you all something. I am a high school cheerleader stuck in a 55-year-old male body. If you were to cut me open, Hannah Montana would jump out.

Too bad. (INAUDIBLE) it`s a dollar. All for (INAUDIBLE) stand up and holler.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Well, he`s funny, he`s gay, really? That`s shocking and he`s here. Hey, Leslie, how are you?

JORDAN: Thank you for having me.

BEHAR: It`s always a pleasure. You call yourself the gayest man that I know. What`s so gay about you?

JORDAN: I sort of fell out of the womb and landed in my mother`s high heels and I`ve been on the prance ever since.

BEHAR: On the prance.

JORDAN: With all due disrespect to the Christian right, there`s no choice here so --

BEHAR: Yes, yes. A lot of gay guys, though, they`re the postmen and policemen, they don`t have the same aura that you have.

JORDAN: Exactly.

BEHAR: You know, so not all gay men are -- what did you call it? Out on the prance?

JORDAN: Out on the prance.

BEHAR: And who are you gayer than do you think in the media, for example?

JORDAN: Oh, my gosh.

BEHAR: Are you gayer than Shawn --

JORDAN: I`m gayer than Shawn Hay probably. I`m gayer than the guy that plays the straight guy on the sitcom.

BEHAR: Oh, "The Good Wife". Alan Cumming?

JORDAN: No, no, the one that played "Doogie Howser".

BEHAR: Oh.

JORDAN: Neil Patrick Harris.

BEHAR: Neil Patrick Harris. Yes.

JORDAN: Yes.

BEHAR: You`re gayer than he is.

JORDAN: Probably.

BEHAR: How old were you the first time you went to a gay bar?

JORDAN: I was 17 years old, and I had made a decision for my own sanity that I just had to meet some queers. I just had to. And I borrowed my mother`s Monte Carlo and I drove down to a very unseemly part of town. And I sat there for three hours and watched a couple of people go in and chickened out and went home. I told my mother that I was doing a research paper at the public library.

BEHAR: She bought it?

JORDAN: She -- bless her heart. What I put my momma through.

BEHAR: So, you were not out to your momma at that point?

JORDAN: No.

BEHAR: So then, when did you come out to your mother?

JORDAN: I think she just sort of figured it out. I wanted to tell her when I was 12, and I did. And she -- you know, she did the best she could with the light she had to see with as my spiritual adviser told me.

BEHAR: That`s so sweet of you to put it that way.

JORDAN: And she took me to a lot of psychiatrists and this and that, but, you know, there was just -- you can`t -- it`s what we are, it`s not what we do, so how do you change?

BEHAR: I know.

JORDAN: You know what you are.

BEHAR: I always say why would anybody choose to be vilified by the --

JORDAN: Exactly.

BEHAR: -- entire population?

JORDAN: And the reason that I wrote this play and the reason I wrote the book was I read there`s a wonderful organization called the Trevor Project.

BEHAR: Yes, I know about it.

JORDAN: Suicidal hotline for gay, lesbian, bisexual transgendered, questioning youth. When they plugged in 11 years ago, they got almost 15,000 calls from young men and women thinking of suicide. And the majority of the calls came from the Bible Belt. And I thought that`s my story, you know, you --

BEHAR: Before we go, tomorrow -- yesterday was your birthday.

JORDAN: Oh, yes. Bless your heart.

BEHAR: Yesterday. So I wanted you to have a lovely --

JORDAN: You`re so sweet. And it`s on red velvet which was my Grandmother Mary Lucille`s best recipe.

BEHAR: Well, happy birthday and thanks for stopping by, Leslie.

JORDAN: You`re so sweet. Thank you.

BEHAR: And we`ll be back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Celebrity trainer Jillian Michaels says she won`t have a baby because she doesn`t want to put her body through it. You know, the weight gain, the bloating, Jillian, ever heard of menopause, it`s going to happen anyway along with the new mustache, have the baby. But if Jillian doesn`t have the baby, she says she plans on adopting. I say great, but wait until Labor Day. Angelina is having a big holiday sale.

Joining me to discuss this and other news in the world of health and fitness are Dr. Ian K. Smith diet expert host of "CELEBRITY FIT CLUB" and author of "Happy, Simple Steps to Get the Most Out of Life." Dr. Travis Stork host of "THE DOCTORS" not an obstetrician and author of "The Doctor Is In". And Jackie Warner fitness expert and author of "This Is Why You`re Fat And How to Get Fit Forever."

OK, Ian let me start with you, Jillian says she doesn`t want to have a baby because she doesn`t want to put the body through that, you know. But she said she would like to adopt a baby. Should she be worried about that?

DR. IAN K. SMITH, HOST, "CELEBRITY FIT CLUB": I hoping Joy, honestly that she is taken out of context. I can`t believe Jillian such a verbal faux pas. I mean it`s ridiculous, of course, it is the wrong message. People have babies all the time. And by the way, you know what women do, they lose weight, they exercise and they eat well and they get their bodies back. That`s nonsense.

BEHAR: But you know Ian she also said about adopting that when you rescue something it`s like rescuing a part of yourself. She`s putting out a message, a positive message to adopt, and why is it anybody`s business what she wants to do with her body. The Octomom and Kate Gosselin have enough kids to balance out all of us.

SMITH: Well listen, you`re right about that. Well listen, I don`t mind her adopting. I think adopting is a positive message. So let me take the second half of her message, if she wants to do that, more power to her.

BEHAR: All right, do you think these comments hurt, you know, women Travis? What do you think?

DR. TRAVIS STORK, AUTHOR, "THE DOCTOR IS IN": No, I think it`s a personal choice. I suspect Jillian made this out of context, because you know her, too.

JACKIE WARNER, AUTHOR, "THIS IS WHY YOU`RE FAT": I know Jillian very well.

STORK: She has a great heart.

WARNER: Yes.

STORK: I think this is probably more about adoption for her than saying women shouldn`t have babies. Because we all know -- look at all the women with multiple children and do a great job of getting back in shape. But in the end --

BEHAR: Madonna has had a couple and Gwyneth Paltrow. A lot of these girls --

WARNER: It is very simple - you see it all the time bouncing right back, it is so simple if you`ve already been working out and then you work out through your pregnancy and after your pregnancy, you are going to lose that baby weight.

STORK: And a little known secret, men believe that women who are pregnant are beautiful -

BEHAR: I know, they do.

STORK: And celebrate pregnancy. And you believe it too.

BEHAR: Which month though? All the whole time?

STORK: The whole time. It`s such a beautiful thing.

BEHAR: All right. Whatever.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Is there anything you can do to help yourself with this getting back in shape?

WARNER: Getting back in shape, yes.

BEHAR: One thing.

WARNER: One thing is that you need to go to the gym consistently five days a week. I mean it takes that amount of time.

BEHAR: OK. Moving on.

WARNER: Hire a trainer. Hire a trainer, there you go.

STORK: Breast feed. Breast feed.

BEHAR: Thank you, breast feeding will get your uterus back together. I don`t know about everything.

STORK: And you don`t use pregnancy as an excuse to gain as much weight as you want. There`s a healthy amount of weight gain during pregnancy. Gaining a hundred pounds during you pregnancy is not going to help --

BEHAR: I only gained 26 pounds when I got pregnant. That was it.

STORK: That was great.

BEHAR: That was pretty good -

STORK: That was excellent.

BEHAR: Yes but one month I gained 5 pounds in one month, and the doctor yelled at me and he said lay off the pasta.

STORK: Good doctor.

BEHAR: You can imagine -

STORK: Good job.

BEHAR: He didn`t know that I was going to be OK at the end. They`re a little hostile sometimes if you put on weight. I don`t like that.

WARNER: The truth about the story with Jillian is her clock isn`t ticking. If her clock was truly ticking there`s nothing that can stop her from having that baby.

BEHAR: OK let`s talk about this show "THE BIGGEST LOSER." critics say it is not going to help the obesity problem in America. Ian, they have the support system of chefs, these people, doctors, and trainers. The average person at home is watching this and saying, oh, my god. I have to do this all of my own and can`t do it. So it`s not helping anybody, is it really?

SMITH: Joy, we`ve known each other for a long time. You and I both know that show is completely out of bounds. Number one, most of America is not 200 pounds overweight, morbidly obese so it`s an misperception of what America is. Number two losing 15 to 20 pounds in a week is not only unhealthy but it sends the wrong message to the rest of America that if they lose what is good weight, by the way, two to three pounds per week, America says, oh my goodness, I`m failing. I didn`t lose 10 pounds, wrong message. And number three, by the way, the show is a great, big, black box. We don`t know what they`re eating, how much they`re eating. All we know is they`re working out four hours a day. Let me tell you something Joy, if half of America worked out four hours a day everyone would lose weight and we wouldn`t have obesity.

BEHAR: That`s true.

SMITH: So I think the show is wrong. I think the show is wrong.

BEHAR: It is very impractical and the other thing is you know, one of these days someone is going to have a heart attack on that show. You watch these overweight people working out, and doesn`t it look scary to you?

STORK: Well I worry about -- Ian, you`re on fire today. But I will say this, I wouldn`t even say less than two to three pounds a week. It`s not a race.

BEHAR: Even less.

STORK: There is so much of what you see on TV is -- it`s a race. Let`s lose as much weight as possible.

BEHAR: Right.

STORK: If you are losing a half a pound, a pound a week, working your way towards a healthy weight, it doesn`t matter how long it takes to get there.

BEHAR: Yes but a lot of these people are 300, 400 pounds overweight. They don`t want to lose a pound a week, they`d go crazing.

WARNER: Well let me just say if you`re morbidly obese or obese and you drastically change your lifestyle and your eating habits and you start a workout program that`s even an hour a day, you are going to lose five to ten pounds per week. Wouldn`t you agree?

STORK: Absolutely.

WARNER: There you go. That`s more of a safe guideline.

SMITH: But here`s the deal, they need to tell people that the weight loss you`re seeing is not realistic for most of America. Instead they are sending out a signal if you can`t lose this volume of weight, then you`re failing and therefore all the efforts that I am doing and others are doing who are trying to preach healthy weight loss are being, you know, reversed. I think it`s a bad message. And by the way, someone will get hurt on this show.

BEHAR: I think so, too.

STORK: I disagree. I disagree with you, I think seeing five to ten pounds of weight loss per weight week sends the wrong message. And you`re telling people that if you are not losing five pounds a week, that you`re failing. And that`s not truth.

BEHAR: But she`s saying that if you are so overweight -

WARNER: I`m saying drastically -- that`s right.

BEHAR: If you cut out one thing, you will lose weight.

WARNER: Yes. It happens. Clients every day go through this process safely.

STORK: But what I`m saying is for those people, yes. But what I am saying is if you`re 20 pounds overweight --

WARNER: I didn`t say that, I said morbidly obese. If you go from morbid obesity to a healthier lifestyle. But look, I disagree with Ian respectfully because I think that any show, this show has brought to light so many things that are positive in terms of getting people talking about weight loss and obesity and all of these issues.

SMITH: Yes but Jackie including all the e-mails I get because they want to come on celebrity fit club because they gained all the weight back. I mean here -- my issue with the show is very simple, let people know that this is a very small test case.

WARNER: It`s a controlled environment.

SMITH: Exactly. No one can live like this, that`s all I`m saying. It`s fun television by the way. But as far as being like the guidelines for people to lose weight, this is not the way to go. In fact, most dietitians agree with me.

BEHAR: All right, let me try this also, there are new studies which I read today I believe in the "Wall Street Journal" that say that a woman in a certain age I guess who is ten to 15 pounds overweight should stay like that, that it`s better for you, it`s healthier and you will look better also as you get older and don`t get that drawn look. What do you think about that, Travis?

STORK: Well I wouldn`t say if you`re necessarily healthier. But I think if you look at all of the data it`s more important to be fit than the perfect weight.

BEHAR: Well they say exercise and work out a bit.

STORK: These are people though who are maybe ten pounds quote-unquote "overweight." Which - what is the ideal weight, I never figured that out but these are people who do look after their health, they`re in general eating right, and they`re active and I think more importantly it means they`re getting throughout and exercising the cardiovascular system. It`s more important to do that than to be quote unquote "thin."

BEHAR: What do you say to that?

WARNER: My grandmother used to always say, Jackie, as you get older you either sacrifice your face or body. And there is some truth to that. The more lean you are and if you`re extremely fit and athletic, you do wrinkle a little bit more in the face.

BEHAR: Yes, well you there`s -

WARNER: And if you have that sort of soft fat, it does kind of deage you a little bit.

BEHAR: Jackie, there`s always Botox. Let`s get real.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: But you know, it`s interesting, they talk about subcutaneous fat and I think the other thing is visceral fat. Visceral being around here which is bad for you. I find that very interesting, subcutaneous, in the butt and in the thighs. And it is healthier. And yet, magazines really celebrate the other body. They really do believe that the skinny on the bottom with the big bosom is on the top is the ideal figure. It`s not the healthy figure.

WARNER: Yes, no it`s not.

SMITH: Well see Joy, you got to talk to the brothers about this. The brothers for a long time -

BEHAR: I know.

SMITH: Have said that you know, a little ba-dunk-a-dunk is a good thing. But no, seriously Joy, here is the idea, ten and 15 pounds overweight is not going to increase your risk for all these kind of health complications. It`s when you`re obese and morbidly obese that`s a problem.

BEHAR: Right.

SMITH: And you know Travis is so right. What is the ideal weight? Ten or 15 pounds? That`s not bad ought all.

BEHAR: The studies are saying that it`s better to be 10 or 15 over. I mean every week it`s something new, thanks everyone. Thank you very much.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: My next guest does not mince words. She serves them whole. Her new book is "This Is Why You`re Fat And How To Get Thin Forever" and it`s in stores now, so please welcome celebrity trainer and fitness expert, Jackie Warner. Hi, Jackie.

WARNER: Hello.

BEHAR: So, you say that being fat isn`t your fault, staying fat is your fault. Explain that.

WARNER: I wrote this book and I titled it that because I love people. And there`s a lot of misinformation out there still. And a lot of deception, particularly in the food industry.

BEHAR: Uh-huh.

WARNER: So, that`s why I titled it this to let people exactly know what is making them fat. So, again, being fat is not necessarily a problem. There`s a lot of factors that stack up against you in our society in America. But staying fat once you get some very basic tools such as I lay out in the book, that is -- that is your problem, that is your responsibility.

BEHAR: Choosing the right foods, doing a little workout.

WARNER: It`s actually very simple.

BEHAR: If you follow that you shouldn`t be fat anymore you`re saying.

WARNER: You shouldn`t be, no. It`s actually very simple. It`s 80 percent to 85 percent diet, exercise is a good component, it keeps you healthy. And it certainly helps build muscle which then burns fat but it is mostly about diet and that`s why the book is mostly about diet. But let me tell you, that every trick of the trade is in this book that I`ve ever done. Being fat is really up to three factors. One is sugar addiction. We`re hard chore in this society.

BEHAR: What should you do about that?

WARNER: You can break it in about five days.

BEHAR: How?

WARNER: You should not have anything over five grams of sugar in your system, so per serving. So basically if you eat if it`s got over five grams of sugar, then you put it on your shelf. If it`s under, put it back in your basket.

BEHAR: So, skip dessert.

WARNER: Skip dessert. Sugar`s in bread and pastas and it`s in everything. All quickly converts to fat in your system.

BEHAR: Oh you`re talking about white flour.

WARNER: Truly.

BEHAR: So white food. Because a lot of people say don`t eat anything white.

WARNER: And that`s true, that is the rule of thumb.

BEHAR: Very racist, but I`ll go with it anyway.

(LAUGHTER)

WARNER: Well it is good for food.

BEHAR: So leave out white bread, white rice, white pasta. All those things.

WARNER: bagels, you know, bagels is a killer because a lot of people love their bagels, it`s inverted so fat to sugar in your system and it hits so fast.

BEHAR: And what else?

WARNER: Number two is hormone dysfunction, it is a big hot topic. But hormones, we`re very estrogen dominant society because of the process food in chemicals and so it creates something estrogen dominance and that`s when, I can actually look at someone and look at their midsection to see if they`re estrogen dominant, you gain most of the weight around mid section/hips area. And this is having to do with all the chemicals that are pumped into our meat, into our dairy supply, into our chicken --

BEHAR: So what do you do about that?

WARNER: You have to go organic. That is one thing. I`m not an elitist diet.

BEHAR: Like grass-fed meat?

WARNER: Grass-fed meat.

BEHAR: Does it taste better?

WARNER: It tastes much, much better.

BEHAR: The third one?

WARNER: The third one is toxic organs, I`m talking specifically the liver. The liver is the organ that is responsible for metabolizing fat. You have to keep it clean and we`re not, again, with the processed chemicals. So it`s the liver, the thyroid, and the adrenals that are really responsible for fat gainer, fast loss in this country.

BEHAR: Really.

WARNER: So basically, I`ll give you a tip, something to detox the liver is simply drinking three liters of water a day adding lemon juice which is ascorbic acid and that purifies and detoxifies the liver, it also burns up to 100 calories per day. And that is just drinking water.

BEHAR: Lemon water?

WARNER: Lemon water.

BEHAR: When you say three liters. How many cups are in a liter? How many cups are in a liter? Does anybody know?

WARNER: I don`t know. But three liters, think about it --

BEHAR: 4 1/2 cups in a liter.

WARNER: It is two of these large water bottles.

BEHAR: That`s a lot of cups that`s like - four, eight, twelve, that`s about 14 cups of water a day.

WARNER: But who drinks cups of water. Most people get bottles.

BEHAR: Well that`s eight ounces that`s a lot.

WARNER: It is.

BEHAR: I`ll be floating. You`ll be peeing constantly.

WARNER: Two of those. I do it, my clients do it and you add the lemon water and it really does help. Again it just depends do you want to burn 100 calories a day?

BEHAR: I do.

WARNER: And the lemon juice helps to speed up your metabolism almost by 33 percent. That`s significant.

BEHAR: But just the water alone will flush out your body -

WARNER: Absolutely.

BEHAR: Even if you don`t put lemon in it. Thank you Jackie.

WARNER: Thank you.

BEHAR: Those are very good tips.

WARNER: Thank you.

BEHAR: Very good tips, her book is "This Is Why You`re Fat and How To Get Thin Forever." we`ll be back in a minute with the host of "THE DOCTORS."

BEHAR: I do not always trust the food they serve in hotels, which is why I usually raid the mini bar. But then again who wants to pay $27 for a bag of M&Ms, but some hotels feature really terrific dishes and you can even order some of them through room service, here to tell me about some of them is Dana Cowin, editor and chief of "Food & Wine" magazine. OK Dana, hit it.

DANA COWIN, EDITOR AND CHIEF, "FOOD & WINE MAGAZINE": OK we`ve got this amazing Carpaccio pizza, beef Carpaccio with over look over Jon George at The Mark.

BEHAR: I have to tell you that I am a pizza freak. You could pour Pennzoil (ph) on this pizza and I would like it. So, I`m just telling you, I do like it.

COWIN: Now, the thing about it is, the idea of --

BEHAR: That is good.

COWIN: OK.

BEHAR: Raw beef.

COWIN: You`d be surprised because it`s raw beef. Heated to a little bit of warmth from the hot bread. The bread`s good and the beef gets a little warm and you get the spicy arugula and the little shaving of mushroom.

BEHAR: This is delicious. I love it.

COWIN: The next hotel is the Gram Gramercy Park Hotel.

BEHAR: Oh I`ve gone to that place.

COWIN: And the restaurant is Mylino (ph) now they`ve got a great, a great Italian restaurant and their signature dish is right here. Malfaciti A La Myleno.

BEHAR: OK right away the word "fatty" is in there. So I`ll like it.

COWIN: So this is hand-torn pasta and then it has suckling pig ragout.

BEHAR: Oh my god, suckling pig.

COWIN: That`s a little pig, because mylena is a little pig.

BEHAR: Wow, it`s so good. Oh I`m such a big already now.

COWIN: Fantastic chef and then --

BEHAR: Yes, go ahead just keep talking. And I`ll just keep eating.

COWIN: At the Ace Hotel --

BEHAR: Where`s that?

COWIN: -- on 28th street in New York City, the world`s best ham and cheese. Why? Because it has three cheese, not one. It has country ham and it is just melty to perfection. I got you a teeny, weenie little piece.

BEHAR: Oh stop it, Dana, I want the big piece. Should I use the mustard, too?

COWIN: Please do and I`ve got a pickle here, if you want.

BEHAR: OK let`s not get too complicated.

COWIN: So what`s great about this, if you eat the whole sandwich, you go upstairs or to make it easier for yourself, order this on room service and you don`t have to limp out of bed.

BEHAR: Really, I notice you haven`t eaten anything.

COWIN: Would you like me to?

BEHAR: Yes, I would. Yes, I would.

COWIN: I`m going to go for the pasta.

BEHAR: I`m going to get fat and you`ll stay nice and thin. OK, thanks, Dana. Stick around, we`ll be back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

I actually ask myself four questions before I eat every meal. Number one, is it delicious, number two, is it healthy? Number three, and this is a big one for me, how will I feel 30 minutes from now? And then number four, will a steady diet of this make me and allow me to be healthy ten years from now?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: He`s been a reality TV bachelor, a doctor and author. In other words a great catch, girls. He`s been with me earlier in the week and my staff swoon him so much, we asked him back. Dr. Travis Stork with me now. How are you?

STORK: I am good. Thanks for having me back.

BEHAR: OK. Your book, you say conquer disease before it happens. Can you really do that? You`re talking about preventative medicine.

STORK: Not every disease admittedly, but I`m an E.R. doctor. I see a lot of things. When people come in, what I`m seeing is acute worsening of disease that could have been prevented. People always come in and say Dr. Stork I wish I would have done things differently or I`m trying to do the right things but I don`t know what those are. Because believe it or not, a lot of misinformation out there.

BEHAR: Yes.

STORK: And a lot of things we suffer from in this country, I don`t want to say self-inflicted but certainly things we can do can lead us down a path. And it`s a bit of a tipping point, medicine, hey, may be high blood pressure first. But then when you get your first heart attack, then you go into kidney failure, there are a lot of little spiraling things that can help.

BEHAR: Uh huh so one thing leads to another.

STORK: It does. And that`s what this book is about, it`s about how to stop it before it happens.

BEHAR: OK so give me one thing people could do right now to improve their health.

STORK: Well, certainly the book, it`s a quote/unquote seven-step prescription.

BEHAR: Right.

STORK: The most important thing is people need to take charge of their health. I call it becoming your own health guru. You should be the CEO of your own health. And --

BEHAR: Should they go on the internet and find out stuff?

STORK: I have something in the book called bad information detector. Go to the right sites. Don`t go to the internet to try to diagnose yourself. Go to the internet, learn things but, again, sometimes people go to the internet and get off of it and think, oh my gosh I have cancer.

BEHAR: Yes, it`s true.

STORK: That doesn`t work well. One of the biggest things is I have a chapter in the book called "Eat To Save Your Life."

BEHAR: What should be one thing you should put in your grocery bag?

STORK: Start on the periphery, on the fruits and vegetables. Make it a rainbow. Different colors of fruits and vegetables. And then if you want to get processed food, that`s OK, but it`s not OK -

BEHAR: No -

STORK: We eat over 80 percent of our food as processed food in a lot of areas of this country and that`s not good.

BEHAR: And it has high salt content and that`s not good for blood pressure and all that.

STORK: It`s added salt, added sugars, added fats. And we don`t even know what`s in there. So one of the things in the book I focus on, we as consumers --

BEHAR: Yes --

STORK: As health gurus need to be willing to look at the package, look at the ingredients so we can make better decisions not only for ourselves but kids.

BEHAR: I love salt and have low blood pressure. I love Sea salt, kosher salt. Why do I have to take salt out of my diet? I don`t have high blood pressure.

STORK: Well you know, it is individual -- independent. Individual dependent. One third of us are walking around with high blood pressure. You`re lucky.

BEHAR: I am, I am.

STORK: For whatever reason you`re not predisposed to it. There are so many other hidden health dangers. And again, if you ignore them now, because a lot of illnesses, diabetes, obesity, you know, they`re quote/unquote "silent killers" because you don`t realize it sometimes until it`s too late. That you`re suffering from it. As an E.R. doctor, I`d rather meet you on street than E.R.

BEHAR: OK thank you, but before we go, my staff wants to know, are you single?

STORK: I`ve learned I keep the personal life private.

BEHAR: Oh yes, but you were on the bachelor.

STORK: That`s what I learned after that, it`s better to keep it private.

BEHAR: Oh you learned something from that show. You`re probably the only one. Catch Dr. Travis Stork everyday on "THE DOCTORS." and go grab a copy of his book, "The Doctor Is In: A Seven Step Prescription For Optimal Wellness." Good night everybody, good health.

END