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Joy Behar Page
Is Jail the Answer?; Arizona Immigration Controversy; White House Humor
Aired May 03, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Michael Douglas says jail may be the best place for his son, Cameron, and that his parenting skills were certainly lacking. We`ll discuss.
Then, is there a backlash against plastic surgery in Hollywood? I bet Heidi Montag will have something to say about this, if she can still move her mouth.
And I went to the White House Correspondents` Dinner and met Scott Brown. You know, Senator Centerfold? Can I just say, muy caliente, ok. I haven`t got that excited over a politician since I saw Strom Thurmond parade around in a Speedo.
That and more right now.
Michael Douglas appeared on the "Today Show" this morning to talk about his son Cameron`s five-year jail sentence for selling drugs. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL DOUGLAS, ACTOR: My son has not been sober for this length of time since he was 13 years old. So he was going to be dead or somebody was going to kill him.
And I think he has a chance to start a new life, and he knows that. And from my understanding, it`s going to take that amount of time for him to rebuild and start himself afresh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So, is prison time really the best thing for Cameron or for people like Lindsay Lohan who may be headed to jail for probation violations?
With me to discuss are Danny Bonaduce, actor and radio talk show host on 94.1 WISP in Philadelphia; Jim Moret, attorney and chief correspondent for "Inside Edition"; and Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist and contributor to care.com.
Jim, let me start to say. He seems to say -- Michael Douglas seems to say that prison is the right thing for his son to be going to right now. Is that the answer for Cameron in your opinion?
JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": I think really Cameron needs two things. I think he needs to pay a penalty for the criminal activity, selling or distributing drugs. And then he needs treatment for being an addict.
And I think this case is complicated, because you don`t have someone who`s just harming themselves using drugs, but they`re selling to others and harming other people. So I think that in this particular case, I would think that you would need a little bit of prison and then a bit of rehab, but a forced rehab, where he can`t get out for a couple of years.
BEHAR: Well, is there rehab in jail? He`s going to get it there, right?
MORET: There`s a hospital facility, I`m sure in these -- look, in the regular prison facilities, I`m sure you can get drugs, if you really want them.
BEHAR: Exactly. Danny --
MORET: But if he`s supervised, I think that he won`t be able to.
BEHAR: But Danny, can he -- can`t these prisoners get drugs in jail, illegal drugs?
DANNY BONADUCE, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: They can.
BEHAR: Is that really the place to put a drug addict?
BONADUCE: Oh, absolutely. It is a misnomer at the very least to say you can just get drugs in jail. It`s the most difficult thing in the world to get drugs in jail. And the guy you get them from, you owe him a favor and that`s the last thing you want.
And by the way, at a restaurant, liquors are marked up 300 percent. In jail, drugs are marked up 1,000 percent and there aren`t a lot of them.
BEHAR: Well, do you think that jail is the place that they`re saying that Michael Douglas and others, because it`s more than 28 days when you`re in jail. Maybe the rehab thing for 28 days is just not enough for these hard-core addicts, right, Danny?
BONADUCE: No, it most certainly is not. Rehab is -- I happen to think, if anything will help you, I am not against it. I`m all for anything that will help you. But I will tell you a national statistic, that when you go to rehab and you pay your $40,000, they barely mention, we have a 96 percent failure record. That`s usually not on their brochure.
I`ve never seen anybody come out of rehab sober and stay that way on their first three chips. Jail is exactly where this young man belongs.
BEHAR: Wow. Well, you know, Michael Douglas also opened up about his parenting skills on the "Today Show" this morning. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOUGLAS: I`ve taken blames about being a bad father. I mean, being a bad father is, you know, working your butt off, trying to create a career at one time. I`ve also confessed to the fact that I was in rehab 20 years ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok, Robi, you`re the shrink.
ROBI LUDWIG PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I think Michael Douglas certainly makes a point. When somebody is not there for their child, not focusing on their child, what can happen is the child then says, who`s going to nurture me? Who`s going to make me feel comfortable? And they can turn to drugs to feel calm, to feel nurtured.
When you think about it, the good parent helps to assuage the pain, helps to provide coping skills for their child. If a parent is working, not there, not focusing on a child, well, then they can take matters into their own hands.
BEHAR: Well, he talks about -- I believe in the interview, he talks about how he -- you know, he`s a movie actor in the beginning of his career. When you make a movie, you`re gone for months a lot of times.
LUDWIG: Right. Yes.
BEHAR: And the kids just don`t have you there. Danny, do you think maybe celebrities -- this is so ridiculous, I`m asking you. Do you think celebrities shouldn`t have children? I mean, if you`re a movie star and you know you`re not going to be there, why have kids? I don`t get it.
BONADUCE: Well, actually, it`s kind of an interesting question. I just don`t think movie stars should be allowed to breed in the first place.
But the fact of the matter is, Michael Douglas did a wonderful thing. I`m sure it was cathartic for him, I`m sure the self-inflicted pain that he says that I tried so hard and maybe I let him down, try talking a drug addict out of drugs.
What do you think Michael Douglas could have said to his son that was more important than, hey, come here into the kitchen, don`t mind stepping over your dead Uncle Eric who died of a drug overdose? What`s more important of a dead relative of a drug overdose that teaches you not to take drug? You`re never going to talk him out of taking drugs.
My brother, we`ve had the same parents, raised by the same family. My brother, John, is a choir director, my sister a very published writer, my brother Anthony is an architect, and I`m a recovering drug addict. Show me where the parenting fits in.
BEHAR: Go ahead Robi.
LUDWIG: It`s not always about parenting. It`s not -- that`s not the only factor. Certainly genetics is a huge component. And a lot of times - -
BONADUCE: Don`t I have the same genetics as my brothers and sisters?
LUDWIG: Yes, well -- but you also have a certain personality trait and character tendencies. And sometimes the mix between your character tendencies and needs and whoever your parents are is slightly different.
Listen, maybe you had just a stronger genetic tendency to become a drug addict. It`s not always about bad parenting. That is not my point here. But I do think that Cameron is making the point.
BEHAR: Yes.
LUDWIG: And what we see a lot of times with these children who are acting out and they have celeb parents or just are acting out period, is they`re making a statement saying, "My parents didn`t do a good job. Look at what a mess I am. Look how I`m almost dead. Don`t you feel guilty now? Do you see what you did to me?"
And sometimes whether they`re consciously aware of it or unconsciously aware --
BEHAR: It`s a punishment.
LUDWIG: That`s right. They`re saying, "You didn`t do things right."
BEHAR: Yes.
BONADUCE: Well, Doc, I would love to agree with you but I`ve been to rehab a couple of times. And when I watch 40-year-old adults and take a (INAUDIBLE) and hit a pillow and get all the aggression out and all the weird voodoo that they do in rehab and I see-year-old men and women saying, mommy didn`t love me. When does somebody start taking responsibility for their own behavior?
MORET: Yes. I think that`s a good point.
LUDWIG: It`s an interesting point.
BEHAR: Go ahead Jim. Get in there, Jim.
MORET: Well, I think -- look, he`s 31 years old, Cameron. At some point -- when you watched Michael Douglas today on TV, it was hard not to feel empathy for him as a parent. He was very somber and he was resigned to the fact that his son is going to spend five years in prison.
But he also said, or at least implied that this may be a blessing for him, because maybe he can restart his life and maybe he can start it out clean.
BEHAR: And to be fair, to be fair, Danny, it`s not the boy who`s saying that my daddy did it and my mommy did it, it`s the father who`s turning himself in.
BONADUCE: Absolutely. And that`s what I`m talking to right now. If there`s any chance Michael Douglas is listening, there`s nothing you could have done.
BEHAR: We don`t know that. That`s a ridiculous statement.
LUDWIG: We don`t know that, Dr. Danny. We don`t know that.
Hey listen, it`s very possible Michael could have been the perfect father and this or something like this could have still happened.
BONADUCE: Well, let me ask you a question --
BEHAR: And also, also, look --
(CROSSTALK)
LUDWIG: Ok, ok --
BEHAR: Look, I know a lot of psychotherapy, Danny, I do, and a lot of it is going back, going back, going back and getting the original situation, the original cast album out there. And then you can do the road company, you know what I`m saying?
BONADUCE: I`ve spent more time on the couch than an aspiring starlet, so I know a little bit about psychotherapy myself --
BEHAR: Ok, whatever.
BONADUCE: But the fact of the matter is, I don`t believe you can talk a drug addict out of doing drugs. And the point I was making was to Mr. Douglas. That he could have done nothing. Not the boy --
LUDWIG: We don`t know that.
BEHAR: We don`t know that Danny.
All right. Let`s move on to Lindsay Lohan --
BONADUCE: Doctor, how many times have you quit crack.
BEHAR: We`re talking about another case now. Lindsay Lohan`s father, Michael Lohan, spoke to TMZ about possible jail time for his daughter. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL LOHAN, LINDSAY LOHAN`S FATHER: I don`t think jail is good for anybody. I think it`s definitely not rehabilitory (ph). For people who have problems, drug problems, they need to be in rehab.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So, Danny, will jail time save Lindsay from herself?
BONADUCE: I`m not quite sure, because I truly believe that Michael Lohan will violate his parole and go to jail long before his daughter. He`s not -- I`m not a fan of that man at all.
But I do believe that if she is spiraling and as out of control as I am led to believe by ink and press, then yes, I do believe prison time is in her best behavior.
BEHAR: Well, you know, jail time did work for Robert Downey Jr.
LUDWIG: Yes.
BONADUCE: It sure did.
BEHAR: After many stints in rehab, he actually -- he`s been sober, I believe, 13 years now or something.
LUDWIG: You know for some people, jail could be --
BEHAR: Ten years, yes.
LUDWIG: -- for them hitting rock bottom where they say oh, my God. It`s a big confrontation where they say, "If I don`t turn things around, I`m really going to end up in the gutter. This is not who I want to be." So in those situations, then it can be, you know, what turns them around.
I just have an issue with criminalizing, you know --
BEHAR: Yes.
LUDWIG: You know -- non-violent drug crimes. But that`s --
BONADUCE: I agree with the doctor.
MORET: Well, wait a minute. This is not --
LUDWIG: You agree with me.
MORET: -- necessarily -- this is not necessarily a nonviolent drug crime. With Lindsay Lohan, she was arrested twice for DUI and the second time was for possession of cocaine.
BEHAR: Yes.
MORET: So she is potentially a threat to many other people. And I think that she`s getting different treatment because she`s a celebrity. The judge says she has to go to treatment once every seven days. By her own admission, she`s missed that and has doubled up other weeks.
But where do we see her? On TMZ. Where do we see her in the tabloids? At clubs. And that`s outrageous.
BEHAR: Ok.
BONADUCE: Jim is absolutely correct on that. When you go and you buy cocaine, you buy cocaine from a man with a gun. He takes it to a man that deals bigger amounts of cocaine with a lot more guns and then he sends it to Colombia or any other country, I don`t mean to be un-PC here, to people with anti-aircraft missiles. It`s a very dangerous crime.
BEHAR: All right, just -- Jim, let me show you one more piece of tape.
Michael Douglas also offered advice to other parents whose children might fall prey to drugs. Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOUGLAS: You have to catch it early. Your options, once your children turn 18, are limited. Most of the time, 30 days isn`t going to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know, he seems to be saying that 30 days is just not enough. And I think, Danny, you agree with that. I think you agree with it --
LUDWIG: They`re not enough.
BEHAR: -- and I think we all -- all seem to agree with that. So is that the answer, to send these people to jail? I mean, there`s got to be another way to do this.
LUDWIG: It just seems like a very expensive way to deal with a problem.
BEHAR: I would be petrified if I were these kids going into jail, my God.
LUDWIG: No, I think we need to get an in-patient unit that can treat people long-term --
BEHAR: Yes.
LUDWIG: -- that really give them the kind of treatment that they need.
BEHAR: Ok, thank you, guys. Very good meeting and discussion; I liked this.
Up next, did a hate group help draft Arizona`s new immigration law? I`ll investigate that after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: This weekend saw more protests and outrage in response to Arizona`s controversial immigration law, even after the governor added changes, which she says make it clear that racial profiling won`t be tolerated.
Here to talk about it are, Alison Stewart, co-anchor of "Need to Know" on PBS; S.E. Cupp, author of "Losing Our Religion: The Liberal Media`s Attack on Christianity"; and Congresswoman, Linda Sanchez, a Democrat from California.
Welcome ladies.
Congresswoman, do you believe that the new changes will stop racial profiling?
REP. LINDA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: No, I don`t. That`s the problem with the bill. The bill was written in an overly broad way, which gives great discretion to police officers to stop people who they think are not in the country legally.
And I`d like to hear their definition of what an American citizen looks like, because I think without playing into stereotypes and racial profiling, you really can`t come up with an answer for that.
BEHAR: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And I think that the bill is fundamentally flawed.
BEHAR: S.E., what are these -- what is this going to be based on then?
S.E. CUPP, AUTHOR, "LOSING OUR RELIGION": Well, you know, I`ve got to say, even as a conservative, I don`t love this bill. I think it`s a little aggressive and constitutionally, I think it`s going to run up against problems.
But the idea that law enforcement can go out and target quote, unquote, "brown people" now just for looking brown is a little hysterical and paranoid. They don`t have any more freedom and flexibility on that than they did before the bill was passed.
BEHAR: Right.
CUPP: But it doesn`t matter how much they address this, that`s always going to be the sort of PR problem with this bill.
BEHAR: Well, you know it was funny because Frank Rich this weekend had a column about it and he writes that Brian Bilbray a Republican Congressman from California and another supporter of the law rode to the rescue by suggesting, quote, "They will look at the kind of dress you wear". So he writes, "Wise Latinas better start shopping at Talbot`s." Congresswoman, what do you think about that?
SANCHEZ: It`s ridiculous. And Sheriff Arpaio also said he could tell what immigrants -- illegal immigrants looked like by what they were wearing. Basically it`s a very classist way of looking at things and targeting people who look poor.
I mean, one of the things that this bill allows people to do is go to a homes where a car might be up on blocks and say, hey, you`re in violation of a municipal code, show me your papers.
Joy, I don`t know how many times you might leave the house a week without your I.D. and maybe to go to gym or you transferred purses and you forget it. That`s happened to me before, certainly.
BEHAR: Right.
SANCHEZ: And if you don`t look the right way or the way they want you to look, they can pull you over and if you don`t happen to have it on you, away you go for who knows how many hours --
BEHAR: That`s right.
SANCHEZ: -- to try to sort the whole mess out.
I just -- I think, it`s ridiculous, it`s punitive, it`s draconian, it`s clearly unconstitutional. And I just think it shows the worst of this fear in this country that they want to target whatever groups they don`t like or that seem other and protect us, somehow, from them. I really don`t understand it and it`s really disappointing.
BEHAR: Alison?
ALISON STEWART, CO-ANCHOR, "NEED TO KNOW": Well, I`m wearing Talbot`s and I`m brown, so I guess I can drive safely.
BEHAR: Yes that`s right.
STEWART: The thing I think is sort of interesting, is as I`ve heard a lot of people talk about this, the people I`ve heard who don`t think racial profiling is going to happen usually don`t really look like the people who might be profiled unless they`re profiling people from Norway. It`s difficult to think about what are they going to use as their criteria. And I feel very -- I feel that police officers are going to be put in a really, really difficult position.
BEHAR: Right.
STEWART: I mean, they`re darned if they do and they`re darned if they don`t.
BEHAR: And all you need is one sort of like rogue cop who really is out to get you.
Congresswoman, this is another thing. The Southern Poverty Law Center, which is a high level organization that monitors hate groups, they say that a racist group is partially behind the drafting of the law. What do you make of that?
SANCHEZ: Yes, it`s my understanding that there are links between the group and white supremacist groups, some of their membership crosses over. And that`s really troubling, because here you have extreme hate groups working through another organization to present legislation that clearly has a racial intent. And they`re trying to sort of peddle that to many different states. And we should be very concerned about that.
BEHAR: We are concerned. And I think it`s interesting, don`t you, that people are protesting this in large numbers. I mean, I feel good about that. I feel that this is America. And we don`t put up with that.
CUPP: Yes but this isn`t -- let`s not -- but let`s not get crazy. Illegal is not a race. It`s not an ethnicity. It`s a legal status. And I understand the concerns, I understand the fears.
But at it`s -- at it`s bottom, Arizona is at a breaking point. And Arizona, I think, felt like they had to go rogue and kind of do something that the federal government wasn`t doing. People are dying at the border. And this was, I think, a lame attempt at addressing that.
SANCHEZ: But what --
BEHAR: Go ahead. Go ahead, Congressman.
SANCHEZ: What they`re -- Arizona likes to pretend it`s the only state along the border. It`s not. There are lots of other states that have those kinds of challenges. But until we can get a comprehensive immigration reform bill that makes sense, that is orderly, that doesn`t split families apart for decades, then you`re never going to be able to sift out who are the real criminals at the border and the drug cartels and who are the honest hard working people --
BEHAR: And doesn`t it --
SANCHEZ: -- to feed their family.
BEHAR: She does.
STEWART: There`s a silver lining in all of this. Maybe people will start to differentiate between people who mean to do ill and people who just want to feed their family, make some money, and possibly make a better life --
BEHAR: But how will they differentiate?
STEWART: Maybe people can. I mean at this point, we`ll understand that there are -- illegal immigrants is not just a giant one palette. There`s lots of different colors in the palette, people want to work hard and people who mean you harm.
BEHAR: Ok. Everyone stay right there. We`ll be back in a minute with more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It`s been quite a year since I`ve spoken here last; lots of ups, lots of downs. Except for my approval ratings, which have just gone down. But that`s politics. It doesn`t bother me. Besides, I happen to know that my approval ratings are still very high in the country of my birth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He was funny. The White House Correspondents` Dinner was held over the weekend and I was there. It was fabulous.
President Obama tried his hand at comedy, and next week I`m going to try to solve the Middle East crisis.
I`m back here with my panel. How do you think he did? You were not there. You were there Alison.
STEWART: I think -- no, actually my husband was there. I thought it was actually pretty hilarious.
One of the things I love about seeing President Obama, who`s usually so stiff, and always very eloquent, is when he breaks it down. When he started to talking of Michael Steele as "my brother", or what he said about, "Welcome to my world."
You wonder if he and Michelle sit around talking like this. I would like to eavesdrop on that --
BEHAR: Leno poked fun of Michael Steele. He said, Republicans don`t want to see lesbians get married, but they like to see them tie the knot. Get it?
Steele thought it was a very funny line. I had a little interaction with him. He thought it was very funny.
Do you think humor is bringing the parties -- there I am with him --
STEWART: Look at you.
BEHAR: -- There I am, practically embracing Michael Steele.
CUPP: Traitor.
BEHAR: I was with all the Republicans, just trying to reach across the aisle. Congresswoman, don`t you think I should get some stars for that?
REP. LINDA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: I think the fact that you attended the nerd prom is a great thing, Joy. You did the circuit. I think if you can laugh with other people, it humanizes them and you can maybe try to find those areas of common ground. And I think that that`s missing so much there.
You know, the lack of humor in Washington, D.C. is --
BEHAR: It`s unbelievable how amiable everybody was there, you know. And you wonder, the next day they`ll be stabbing each other again.
CUPP: But that`s how it is. You know this business, I mean you go on TV and everything`s all crazy on camera backstage; everyone`s friends.
BEHAR: Kissy-kissy.
STEWART: You know what (INAUDIBLE). The people where the titans of the news media, all these senators, they see a celebrity and they`re like a 12-year-old girl running into the Jonas Brothers on the way to "Twilight".
They lose their minds. They can`t believe they were in the same room with big stars.
BEHAR: Oh, I know. And Justin Bieber, he was on the run -- all the girls were after him.
CUPP: That child. Is this the child?
BEHAR: Didn`t he come on to a Kardashian or something? It was really weird. He needs to grow a beard first.
Listen to this. Obama even brought up the new senator, Scott Brown. Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Speaking of tween heartthrobs, Scott Brown is here. I admire Scott; a rare politician in Washington with nothing to hide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was good. That was funny.
CUPP: That is good. I heard he had some "Daily Show" help or some "Comedy Central" help?
BEHAR: Well, Bush got Dr. Seuss to write, you know.
CUPP: Ok. I guess I walked into that.
BEHAR: All right. Tell me, who was your favorite Democrat? I now feel that Michael Steele is my favorite Republican.
CUPP: Oh yes. See, I would like to run into -- I`d like to run into Janet Napolitano, just to see if I could get her to say the word "terror". I would try and make her say it.
BEHAR: Why? She can`t say it?
CUPP: She won`t say it.
BEHAR: Why not?
CUPP: She doesn`t want to use the word "terror" anymore. It`s overseas contingency operations and man-made disasters.
BEHAR: Who`s your favorite Republican, Alison? Let me ask the congresswoman. Who`s your favorite Republican, Congresswoman?
SANCHEZ: Oh, that`s tough. You know, I -- I`d have to say probably - - no, I`d have to say Mr. Brady from Texas, we played baseball together.
BEHAR: Ok, very good.
STEWART: I would like to have a beer with Joe Biden or (INAUDIBLE).
BEHAR: Oh, we all want to have a beer with Joe Biden. He`s so cute and sexy, I love him. I love Joe Biden.
(CROSSTALK)
STEWART: And he`s cute and sexy, oh, my goodness.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you ladies.
Don`t go anywhere I`ll have an update on rocker Bret Michaels after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW is Hollywood`s lust for plastic surgery dying? The latest on the fake breast and botox backlash. Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: There`s some good news tonight for Bret Michaels. Doctors say he continues to improve after his brain hemorrhage and that, quote, "his sheer will to live and fully recover is undeniable," unquote. Joining me to talk about Bret`s condition and more are Jawn Murray, columnist for AOL`s "Black Voices" and correspondent for the Tom Joyner morning show, comedian David Siegel, Dave Siegel, and Michelle Collins, comedian and managing editor of bestweekever.tv.
John, let me start with you. TMZ is reporting he was in a good mood, Bret, and talkative. Is he out of the woods? You seem to know about it.
JAWN MURRAY, COLUMNIST, AOL`S "BLACK VOICES": Well his publicist called me just before I got here today and she said that he`s in great spirits, he`s on lots of meds, lots of tests. He`s feeling really good. They expect him to make a full recovery. He`s already talking about going back on tour. They don`t know when. And the Donald really wants him for the "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE" finale on May 23rd. They don`t know if that`s going to happen
BEHAR: That`s soon.
MURRAY: It`s really soon.
BEHAR: That`s around the corner.
MURRAY: But they have a big press conference tomorrow with his physicians, they are going to make a lot of announcements tomorrow and give everyone a detailed account of just where he is. But she said he`s in great spirits, on a lot of meds, but feeling really good.
BEHAR: Well we are very happy to hear that.
MURRAY: He is, he`s a nice guy.
BEHAR: He`s a very sweet guy. We you met him, Michelle, right?
MICHELLE COLLINS, COMEDIAN: I did. I have to tell you, I love Bret Michaels, he is so friendly funny, self-deprecating, so sweet, he`s great guy.
BEHAR: Yes everybody`s really interested in him, so we`re happy for him. OK, let`s move on to something else. In his first interview since living "THE TONIGHT SHOW" in January, Conan O`Brien opened up on "60 MINUTES" about his nasty late-night feud with NBC and with Jay Leno. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONAN O`BRIEN: I can just tell you maybe how I would have handled it, and I would do it differently.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You wouldn`t have come back on "THE TONIGHT SHOW"?
O`BRIEN: Have I surrendered "THE TONIGHT SHOW" and handed it over to somebody publicly and wish them well and then I would not have come back six months later. But that`s me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Dave, what do you make of that?
DAVE SIEGEL, COMEDIAN: I mean, they asked him -- I saw the clip. They asked him if Jay had acted honorably and he didn`t really answer the question, but then described how he didn`t really act honorably. I`m a comedian, I am kind of a Conan man so I sided with him.
BEHAR: Jay`s a comedian too.
SIEGEL: Is he?
BEHAR: Hello.
SIEGEL: Oh yes, right, now, I knew that. But -
BEHAR: But you decided you picked Conan as the person you are going to back. Why? Any particular reason?
SIEGEL: Because they give him a six-month chance and then, you`re like out of here. To me that`s not fair. I mean, Jay, he was number one and then they demoted him. The most publicized demotion in the world.
BEHAR: That`s right.
SIEGEL: Yes.
BEHAR: And when Conan says, you know, that Jay sort of got hysterical laughing when Steve Kroft said that Jay said that he got screwed, which he said to me, by the way, I`m just throwing that out there. Anyway, when Conan started laughing at that, I thought, well, you know, Jay five years ago, Jay is told, you`re number one, but we`re moving you out because we want a younger guy. Doesn`t that mean he`s getting screwed?
SIEGEL: But at the end of the day, isn`t it NBC`S option to either give him a contract or not give him a contract?
BEHAR: It`s NBC`S option to do whatever they want. So when they did what they did, then Conan gets pushed back. It`s what happens.
COLLINS: You know it`s funny enough, even in that "60 MINUTES" interview, Conan was still funnier than Jay Leno at the White House correspondents` dinner, where he, I don`t know if you saw this, like Leno bombed at the white house correspondents` dinner.
BEHAR: You know I`m surprised you would say something like that about a fellow comedian. You know how hard that is to do - I mean really I`d like to see these bloggers get up there and be funny. Everybody who is attack him --
COLLINS: Give me the chance, Joy. If somebody would give me the chance to get up in front of Obama and be funny, forget about it. It would be -
(CROSSTALK)
MURRAY: On "60 MINUTES," Conan said he was depressed. He went to a depression after the whole NBC debacle.
BEHAR: Yes.
MURRAY: I was depressed watching him host THE TONIGHT SHOW his jokes were not funny.
BEHAR: Who? Conan?
MURRAY: Conan. And at the end of the day, it`s a numbers game. You didn`t deliver the numbers. There were more people who cared about you getting fired than actually hosting "THE TONIGHT SHOW." so it happens in real life all the time, people get fired from a job, or leave a job, they go to another job, you get a replacement, the replacement doesn`t do the job well. Somebody is asked to come back. But we`re just talking about people that make $50 million.
COLLINS: Is he not depressed anymore though? He kind of - I will say, he looked terrible in that clip.
BEHAR: Who did?
COLLINS: Conan.
MURRAY: They had a red blue -
COLLINS: Oh but I mean they have an air brushing machine at "60 MINUTES." Just look at -
(CROSSTALK)
MURRAY: Just like "QUEER EYE FOR THE STRAIGHT GUY" it was pretty bad.
(LAUGHTER)
SIEFEL: Did you see Stephen Colbert at the White House, Joy, he killed it?
BEHAR: No, I didn`t see him. Now, Conan, it`s interesting, Conan said that it was cheaper to get rid of him, which they paid him $40 million, than to get rid of Jay, which I think it comes to $150 million, it would have been to get rid of Jay. I don`t buy it. It`s too much money. I don`t think that`s true. I don`t know where we came up with that figure. Simon Cowell makes only $45 million a year on "IDOL" and he is the most highly paid person in television and Conan is saying that Jay would have taken $150 million to get him out. I don`t buy it.
COLLINS: You think - then why would he be saying?
BEHAR: I don`t know.
COLLINS: You think like he`s the underdog still?
BEHAR: I have no idea.
MURRAY: He`s playing the victim so all the people who cared about him getting fired will now follow him over to his new job at TBS. Let`s hope he can bring them number because he didn`t do it on NBC.
BEHAR: Do you think that was a good move to go on "60 MINUTES" and sound that he was basically upset still?
SIEGEL: I personally think that Conan has been the victim the whole time. Let alone --
COLLINS: Oh I don`t think he is a victim, I find it very hard to call Conan O`Brien a victim. I love Conan --
SIEGEL: It`s not about the money -
BEHAR: Only one white male calls another white male a victim. Another late night host, David Letterman is speaking out about his personal life on "LIVE! WITH REGIS AND KELLY." he revealed he and his wife are trying to put their marriage back together after news of his cheating scandal broke. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LETTERMAN: You`ve got an explosion taking place and looking at the shards and you`re thinking, well, can we put this back together? And by god, maybe you can put it back together. And maybe it won`t be the same, but maybe it will be different, maybe it can even be better in a different way.
REGIS: Right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: It sounds like he`s saying that his wife is willing to put it back together. You surprised, Michelle?
COLLINS: No, I`m not surprised, actually. I`m surprised that Letterman decided to go on "REGIS" at 9:00 in the morning, I know they`re very friendly, but that`s like telling all your problems to a leaf blower wearing a suit. You know what I mean? Regis to me doesn`t read like good listener. You know what I`m saying?
BEHAR: He doesn`t?
COLLINS: I don`t -- for some reason --
BEHAR: They`re very good friends and I think that`s why he chose that. He could have came here, but no.
SIEGEL: But there`s a perfect example. David Letterman has an affair with a staffer -
BEHAR: Yes.
SIEGEL: He has a 5-year-old -- or a very young child at home.
BEHAR: Right.
SIEGEL: Yet he goes on his show, he owns up to what happened, I thought he did great when he publicized what happened and apologized --
BEHAR: He did, he did very well.
SIEGEL: And I think he is not viewed -- like people have good feelings about him, where as someone like Jay, really all he did is get demoted and I think he kind of looks like a shmoo in the whole thing, and I mean Letterman did something despicable, but I still feel like -- he`s much more likable.
BEHAR: I mean you act like Jay Leno is Charles Manson.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: All right, Letterman is usually very private. Now what was the reason to go out there and schpell like this --
MURRAY: It`s part of the control. The way Letterman has handled his scandal is public relations 101. You get ahead of the story, you put it out there so you endear the audience to you, so that nothing any tabloid, any blog, any TMZ says will shock anybody because you put it out there.
BEHAR: Right.
MURRAY: And going on "REGIS" was another control mechanism, that`s his friend, it`s a safe environment. So he`s still controlling every aspect of the rollout of this, so there`s no gray area there.
BEHAR: Smart.
COLLINS: He was given such an unfair advantage let`s say over a Tiger Woods who can`t -- Tiger Woods should have a talk show at night where he can go on every night, make jokes, and then four months later, all of a sudden say, listen guys, I`m working on my marriage. Like Letterman has a place every night to make people love him again. You know what I mean? So --
BEHAR: That`s true. But he also had to do the spin, as you say, right away, because he is on television every night.
SIEGEL: And it`s his show, so it makes sense. It`s not Jay`s show.
MURRAY: And all they`re doing this for ratings though. At the end of the day, it`s all to get viewers.
BEHAR: That`s true and they`re all doing very well, thank you very much. They`re all working.
MURRAY: And Jay`s back at number one.
BEHAR: Yes, he is.
And finally, Rush Limbaugh says -- listen to this one. He says that hard-core environmentalist whackos blew up the oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico. John, is it time for the tin hat, the tin foil hat for Rush Limbaugh.
MURRAY: Rush Limbaugh thinks he`s the new Pat Robertson. Every time there`s a crisis in the country, one is beating the other out to get out an outrageous quote. At the end of the day, let`s forget the sound bites. Let`s worry about people who are losing their jobs, the environment - this is serious issue --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I know but isn`t it -- for Rush Limbaugh, this is insane. Am I right?
MURRAY: He`s said some worse things, Joy.
BEHAR: But this is -
SIEGEL: I know this is going to be unpopular but I don`t think this is bad at all. If you go on YouTube, did you see the surveillance video yet, it just came our recently?
BEHAR: Of?
SEIGEL: If you go on YouTube, there`s a surveillance video of a little row boat right before the explosion going towards the rig, and if you zero in, you have Ed Begley Jr. And Woody Harrelson smoking a joint and throwing dynamite --
BEHAR: He`s kidding.
COLLINS: I have to say one thing -- first of all, I actually think it`s the Palmolive people that did it. Because of those ads where they wash the animals, how adorable, great for Palmolive. One thing about Rush, years ago, Rush Limbaugh called me a depraved lunatic on his show. To this day --
BEHAR: Sometimes he`s right, Michelle.
COLLINS: How dare you, Joy. How dare you. Best compliment I`ve ever gotten. To this day, on my resume, Michelle Collins, depraved lunatic, dash dash dash.
BEHAR: That is a good one.
COLLINS: Isn`t that good?
BEHAR: I would like to be called the pinhead by Railey, I love to be called names by those guys.
COLLINS: It`s fun.
BEHAR: But to me it`s like - you know let`s take the priesthood, for example. There are a lot of bad priests. Don`t call them priests. They`re not priests. They`re sort of like wolves in sheep`s clothing, right? Now, if an environmentalist did this, he wouldn`t be an environmentalist. Just like a priest is not a priest if he molests a kid. You follow me?
COLLINS: Well it would make no sense.
MURRAY: A priest and a pedophile.
COLLINS: Yes but he does it to rile people out. I think Rush secretly is smarter than this. He knows exactly what he`s doing.
BEHAR: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
MURRAY: And if he`s not writing these sound bites himself, he has a great writer behind the scenes that`s coming up --
BEHAR: But you know, your line was very funny, Dave. He should come up with some material and stop just making paranoid remarks.
SIEGEL: But here we are talking about him now, that`s probably his goal.
BEHAR: Oh yes.
COLLINS: But they don`t get to listen.
BEHAR: They`re all crying and going to the bank. Thanks everybody, catch David Siegel at the Helium Comedy Club in Philadelphia this Wednesday through Saturday.
Up next, a plastic surgery backlash grows in response to high Heidi Montag`s ridiculous procedures.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: It takes a lot for Hollywood producers to say no to big boobs, duck-lipped young actresses, but Heidi Montague`s ten surgeries in one day may have made them do just that. Here to discuss this is a former supermodel and blogger for modelinia.com, Paulina Porizkova. Dermatologist and author Dr. Fredric Brandt, casting director John Papsidera, welcome to the show. John let me start with you, as a casting director, what is Hollywood looking for right now?
JOHN PAPSIDERA, CASTING DIRECTOR: Well, I think it`s hard to say that there`s one absolute thing that we`re looking for. I think the reality is that you`re always looking to find truthful actors to put in films and television. Something that reflects what the script wants, what the director envisions and how it fills out a part.
BEHAR: Well, I mean, give me some examples. I mean are they looking for real boobs, big noses? No, I don`t think so.
PAPSIDERA: No, I don`t think so. I mean I think you know, it reflects what America and what the world is looking at. You know I think that technology has really influenced this. I think that the fact that so many people are on Iphones and twitters and you know HDTVs, it has a huge impact on how Hollywood then reflects it. So I think all those things play into it, and I think, ultimately, what you`re looking for is, you know, something that`s natural and something that`s realistic.
BEHAR: Right.
PAPSIDERA: I think that when the scalpel overtakes naturalism, is when you get into problems.
BEHAR: What do you say to all that, either one of you.
DR. FREDRIC BRANDT, DERMATOLOGIST: Well.
BEHAR: Go ahead, Paulina, you are the woman.
BRANDT: Go ahead.
BEHAR: Speak -- Paulina who has had nothing, right, Paulina?
PAULINA PORIZKOVA, FORMER SUPERMODEL: Look, see --
BEHAR: Nothing, no botox, no restylane, no facelift, nothing. Just naturally a gorgeous woman.
PORIZKOVA: Thank you. When I wake up on the good side of the bed and have had two hours of makeup, I like gorgeous. What I was going to say was, haven`t you noticed that on TV and in movies, that women over 40 don`t do a lot of frowning.
BEHAR: Yes. Well, that`s Dr. Brent`s fault.
PORIZKOVA: Yes thank you very much, Dr. Brent.
BRANDT: Let me say this, you never notice the good work.
BEHAR: That`s true. That`s true.
BRANDT: You only notice people that are overdone. And there are a lot of people that look very natural and you can do Botox where you leave movement. So you can frown and you can have subtle gestures. You can do it lightly, but you just don`t notice the good work. Like so many women come into my office and say they don`t want to do their lips because if they assume they do a little bit of work on the lips, they`re going to look completely ridiculous.
BEHAR: Yes.
BRANDT: When in reality we do a lot of people and they look perfectly natural. Because as you age the lips do shrink a little -
BEHAR: Yes.
BRANDT: And you lose the line.
BEHAR: I mean look at -
BRANDT: I mean nobody wants your lips bleeding except if you`re Betty Davis and whatever happen to baby James.
BEHAR: Paulina, look at my face. I have Botox up here.
PORIZKOVA: And I can`t --
BEHAR: It doesn`t look unnatural.
PORIZKOVA: No, you look great. Look mad at me. Look like you`re really mad -- no you don`t look mad. See, you have lost the ability to look anger. Now watch me be angry.
BEHAR: Oh, you`re scary.
PORIZKOVA: Right?
BRANDT: If somebody wants to look angry in a movie, we can`t let them look angry, but we do other things.
BEHAR: But you know, John, let me talk to you about Hollywood. These girls are all starting to look like Cher lately. Everybody`s starting to look alike in Hollywood. What about that, isn`t that a problem?
PAPSIDERA: It is. I think that`s the thing you want to avoid. The you know barbieization of actresses is, you know, it`s antithetical as to what you`re really trying to do as artists and directors and casting directors, finding unique people. You know if everybody comes to the door and they look alike, it starts to be a problem.
BEHAR: Right. Well, Heidi Montag is getting more parts, though, she is.
PAPSIDERA: But, but, but, here`s the thing about the my Heidi Montag thing, and I don`t know Heidi, but you have to look at what they`re using her for. And let`s make no bones about it, Hollywood is a business -
BEHAR: Right.
PAPSIDERA: And there`s always a market to sell something, but why are they using with Heidi and what`s the context? You know, people can say all day long that they want to backlash against plastic surgery, but believe me, if you`re looking for you know the role that needs it, we`re the first ones in line.
BEHAR: Right, it`s always about women too. Did they ever ask Karl Malden to get a nose job? I don`t think so.
BRANDT: Exactly right, exactly right.
PORIZKOVA: You know if there is a part in a movie for a plastic sex doll come to life, Heidi`s got it.
BEHAR: Yes now, you blogged recently about Kate Hudson, because she has rumored to have had a boob job. Are you against boob jobs?
PORIZKOVA: You know what I am not really against or for anything specifically. What I`m against is for all of us to have to look the same. Now, I thought that Kate Hudson, to me, she was an icon of beauty of a flat-chested woman and I looked up to her. And whenever I spoke to little girls that were 11 and 12 and they were going, I don`t know if I`m going to grow -- I would say, look at Kate Hudson, she`s so beautiful and doesn`t have a chest. She kind of took that away from me, so I`m a little resentful.
BEHAR: I see, a lot of these girls with the big boobs, they naturally, I`ve noticed, have narrow bottoms.
PORIZKOVA: They have no butts.
BEHAR: And thin thighs and flat chests a lot of times. So now they enhance their chests and people think that they`re naturally built like that and they`re not.
BRANDT: I don`t think anybody looks that natural when they do that. If you have to do everything in proportion. And I always say, what`s going on now is no different from when -- it`s different, but similar to what people did in the 40s. If you look at those old movies when people started to age.
BEHAR: Yes.
BRAND: they shadowed them, they lit them. There are all these tricks, but now we have these other technologies to make people look better.
BEHAR: We just don`t want them all to look Meryl Streep and Helen Mirren look natural to me.
PORIZKOVA: Thank god for them.
BEHAR: Thank you guys so much. Paulina -
PORIZKOVA: You`re welcome.
BEHAR: Sit fight. I`ll be back with you in a bit. I`m not having that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I am back with the former, well, she still is, in my opinion, supermodel Paulina Porizkova, and she says that every woman in Czechoslovakia is as gorgeous as you are. My god.
PORIZKOVA: You know every time I see -- I see some people they come up to me and go, you know, I was just in the Czech Republic and I saw so many girls that looked like you. I go, yeah, I`m just glad I got out while the iron curtain was still on otherwise I would not have had a career.
BEHAR: Really.
PORIZKOVA: You didn`t realize I wasn`t that exotic.
BEHAR: Well, you`re beautiful to us. That`s all we know.
PORIZKOVA: Thank you.
BEHAR: But you`re a darling person. I really like you.
PORIZKOVA: Ditto, let`s join each other`s fan clubs.
BEHAR: OK, you were very outspoken about being fired from "AMERICA`S NEXT TOP MODEL" what happened there? Tell me everything.
PORIZKOVA: Oh god, the dirt, the dirt. It was actually kind of less remarkable than it sounds. They, you know, they basically didn`t renew my contract. That`s called getting fired. I just thought it would be really funny no say I was fired. They did call me on my birthday, and say oh we loved you, you`re great, by the way a piece of bad news you`re no longer on the show.
BEHAR: Now why were you fired?
PORIZKOVA: I felt like saying -
BEHAR: You felt like saying, what? Go ahead.
PORIZKOVA: Well I felt like saying you could have mentioned this a little while ago, you know, it`s like two weeks from the shooting time. You could have mentioned it a little while ago. Maybe not on my birthday would have also been nice, but hey they didn`t know. What was I saying?
BEHAR: Why were you fired?
PORIZKOVA: Oh, they had to cut some fat. I was the fat. It`s not because I was fat, like the internet suddenly reported, Paulina got too fat for the show. I was the fat.
BEHAR: Really, so you were the fat. Who was the thin?
PORIZKOVA: What?
BEHAR: Who did they leave there, if you`re the fat, who did they leave there?
PORIZKOVA: After me everybody else stayed on.
BEHAR: Really?
PORIZKOVA: I think it was a question -- it`s always a question of money, isn`t it? I think they didn`t want to pay me the money. Maybe I didn`t deserve it. So you know, off I went, good-bye.
BEHAR: Oh well water under the bridge.
PORIZKOVA: Show like top model you don`t need more than one supermodel really. There was not enough room around Tyra I think for many other people.
BEHAR: Now you`re telling the truth.
PORIZKOVA: This is an assumption on my part.
BEHAR: What makes a model a supermodel? There are so many beautiful models.
PORIZKOVA: You`re right. The thing that different us is that on our spare time we fight crime.
BEHAR: I think that is a beautiful thing to do.
PORIZKOVA: Thank you.
BEHAR: Especially someone like you who`s so busy being married for 27 -- how many years?
PORIZKOVA: Twenty six years tomorrow.
BEHAR: To Rick.
PORIZKOVA: Hello, honey.
BEHAR: Is that his name?
PORIZKOVA: Yes. And staying married for 26 years -- actually we`ve been married 21 but together for 26, have to say, that is kind of -- that is one of the things I`m proud of in my life.
BEHAR: How do you stay married so long? The rest of those supermodels, while they`re fighting crime and we`re getting world peace together they`re not staying married.
PORIZKOVA: Well yes that`s true. It`s a question of priorities. Fighting crime was never mine. My husband was my priority. Pretty much from the moment we met.
BEHAR: And your boys. Two children?
PORIZKOVA: I have two boys. One that`s 16 and one that`s almost 12.
BEHAR: Are they handsome?
PORIZKOVA: They look like their daddy so I think they`re magnificent. They`re more on the sexy side of handsome. You know, interesting.
BEHAR: I love that. OK, thank you so much. You`re charming. Before we go tonight, though, just a quick moment to acknowledge the passing of Lynn Redgrave. you I know and I thought was a wonderful girl. Although she was nominated twice for Oscars her true legacy may be in courageous and the public battle against breast cancer and ongoing work of making women`s health one of the most important issues of our times. She`ll be missed. Good night, everybody.
END
