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Joy Behar Page
Tarnished "Star"; Dating Violence; Courting Kagan
Aired May 10, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the former boyfriend of murder victim, Yeardley Love has a violent past that included run-ins with the law. Was there anything her parent could have done to steer her away from such trouble?
Then President Obama nominated Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court. Critics say she`s never been a judge. I say neither was Bruno Toniolli (ph) on "Dancing with the Stars" but he`s a dream to watch.
And the Fonz, Henry Winkler, joins me in the studio. Can I just say a Jewish guy with an astigmatism who can play a tough Italian on a motorcycle -- is he perfect for me or what?
That and more in just a bit.
Former "Dancing with the Stars" contestant and football great Lawrence Taylor was arrested late last week for allegedly raping a 16-year-old prostitute. Here with the latest on that story is Stephen A. Smith, syndicated radio talk show host and columnist for the "Philadelphia Inquirer".
Ok Stephen, what`s the latest in the case against LT?
STEPHEN A. SMITH, SYNDICATED RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, the latest is that 16-year-old girl -- the alleged 16-year-old girl that he allegedly was with turns out that she allegedly told him she was indeed 19 years of age --
BEHAR: right.
SMITH: -- as opposed to 16 years of age. That`s the new development right now. And also his lawyer, while the feds claim that Lawrence Taylor admitted to having sex but not knowing the girl`s age, his attorney continues to claim that Lawrence Taylor did not have sex at all, there you have it.
BEHAR: All right, good night, everybody.
But listen, if the girl is 19 and she told him she was 19, that means that the only thing they have on him is that he was with a prostitute, which happens to be against the law, right?
SMITH: That appears to be the case. Now what they will tell you is that ignorance of the law is no excuse for violating it. And if she is indeed under the age of 17, then that still means that there`s statutory rape involved, but you have to believe that common sense would prevail if the girl indeed told him that she was 19 years of age, that indeed that would make her over age. And because of that you know, it shouldn`t be as stringent and it shouldn`t be as harsh as it came across initially.
Because if she told him she was 19 years of age -- he shouldn`t have been with her to begin with -- but in terms of the argument that she told him she was 19 years of age, what is he supposed to do, let me see your birth certificate, first? He shouldn`t have been there but that usually doesn`t happen where somebody you`re trying to get with -- you look at them and say, excuse me, let me see your birth certificate before I do anything.
BEHAR: Ok. All right.
So let`s say she said I`m 19 to him, so that`s what she says she said. Then his lawyer says that he did not, in fact, have any kind of sexual relations with the girl. This is he said/she said, he said/she said. How do you get to the truth in a story like this?
SMITH: Well, what you get to the truth is that whatever he told the authorities, if indeed that testimony is admissible and it`s not thrown out, then Lawrence Taylor has a problem. If indeed the lawyer is saying, you know what, something along the lines that he was not read his Miranda rights or I wasn`t present and therefore his testimony -- whatever testimony he gave you is inadmissible -- therefore that testimony may not be heard.
And if that`s not heard, you don`t have the argument that he admitted to you, the law enforcement official, that indeed he had sex with the girl. And the argument works in favor of him because his attorney got that testimony thrown out.
BEHAR: But there is some -- he`s had some trouble in the past, this guy. This is not the first time we`re hearing something like this.
SMITH: But not like this, not like this. It had nothing to do with rape. He`s historically had problems with drugs. Since his the second year in the NFL, Lawrence Taylor has had problems with everything from cocaine to lord knows what. It`s definitely been a drug issue with him for the longest times, off the field issues. Drugs were primarily it. It certainly wasn`t anything along the lines of rape, that`s for sure.
BEHAR: This is not the first time we`re hearing about trouble with sports stars. You know, there was recently, Ben Roethlisberger, his name is?
SMITH: Yes, that`s right.
BEHAR: And also Kobe Bryant several years back. What goes through these guys` heads that they -- there`s a certain thing with sports figures I think where they think they`re entitled to crazy behavior like this.
SMITH: Well, first of all, I think it`s -- by and large, it`s a microcosm of society, but at the same time when you have a guy like Ben Roethlisberger or even a Tiger Woods acknowledging that they feel a bit privileged, what happens is that you`re making all of this money, women are throwing themselves at you every single day, every single night. And you think you can have your pick of the litter.
So when you think along the lines of infidelity or just chasing some girls, that`s entirely different than sexually assaulting somebody.
BEHAR: That`s right.
SMITH: That`s an entirely different matter altogether.
BEHAR: And it`s different from this case, also. So let`s -- we`re going to follow this. Thanks for bringing us up to date on this Stephen. Ok.
SMITH: No problem.
BEHAR: Always a pleasure to see you.
SMITH: All right. You, too, Joy.
BEHAR: All right.
Also in the news: the murder of University of Virginia coed Yeardley Love. Her ex-boyfriend, a star lacrosse player confessed to police that he shook her violently and her head repeatedly hit the wall.
Here to talk about this case and violent relationships are former prosecutor and author of "Hell Gate" Linda Fairstein, and activist and author of "Open Letters to America" Kevin Powell.
Welcome to the show guys.
KEVIN POWELL, AUTHOR, "OPEN LETTERS TO AMERICA": Thank you Joy.
BEHAR: Now this guy, George Huguely was a star lacrosse player. He was ranked very high on the team. He and this young lady, Yeardley Love, were together for a year. Then she broke up with him and she was found dead in her apartment by a roommate last week.
Do you think that this is a case of she broke up with him and he was furious and came back and killed her? Is that what this looks like?
LINDA FAIRSTEIN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I think the facts -- more facts will develop, but clearly, it was a troubled relationship throughout. It seems that there were reports of violence at other times, and certainly that this kid, the killer, has had a history of violence.
BEHAR: Yes, he did.
FAIRSTEIN: But I think all the statistics are clear that separation is the most dangerous time for a woman in an intimate relationship. And so if there were fights, if he wasn`t ready for this to be ended, she really was at risk as the events played out.
BEHAR: That is true that there are reports he had a violent past. His father called the cops because of a very heated argument between the two of them. And he was arrested in 2008 because of an altercation with a female police officer.
FAIRSTEIN: Who said, in fact, that he was the most aggressive student she had ever arrested.
BEHAR: Really.
FAIRSTEIN: He was screaming, "I`m going to kill you", racist remarks -- really a wild kid.
BEHAR: Right.
So these were warning signs to this girl and to her family, and still she went out with him.
POWELL: You know it`s interesting. I do work with young men and men of all ages around the country around domestic violence, around gender violence. I always say to the men that you all have to take control of your situation. A lot of this stuff has to do with power, you know, particularly when you begin to break --
BEHAR: How do you do that?
POWELL: Well, I think in some cases like this, there`s a real need for serious intervention. Counseling, I don`t actually believe in anger management. I believe in life -- long-term counseling because when you look at the pattern.
The fact that his own father had troubles with him -- this has been documented as well -- it says that this young man has some emotional issues that on top of it, for the women a lot of times their self-worth is tied to whether that man is in their lives or not.
And you know, the writing is always on the wall. I say that every time I deal with a female victim of violence. You know, if he`s abusive emotionally, if he`s physically abusive, if he`s verbally abusive, if you`re in a marriage and he`s controlling your financial situation, all of that is there.
But oftentimes people ignore those things. And then also people around don`t say anything.
BEHAR: Why not?
POWELL: People are afraid. People say it`s not my business at all. And I think that people don`t understand that violence against women and girls is actually an epidemic --
BEHAR: I know.
POWELL: -- not just in this country, but globally. And so people need to step up.
BEHAR: What about her parents? Could they have done anything, you think?
FAIRSTEIN: They`re removed from the school. I think it`s interesting, campuses sometimes provide the sense of a really safety net.
POWELL: Right.
FAIRSTEIN: These young people don`t think they`re vulnerable. She had apparently tried to distance herself from him. She`s -- I mean what is more benign than being asleep in your own bed and somebody kicks -- not only gets in the door of the house but kicks open the door of the room and begins to attack her?
She`s not on the street, she wasn`t doing anything. We like to blame our victims sadly in this country for doing something that they have --
BEHAR: The way they dress and everything else.
FAIRSTEIN: And here is a girl who was asleep at the end of a night in her own bed when he violently broke in and attacked her. Campuses are -- as Kevin says a lot of the time -- there, too, it`s a tough setting because the kids think they`re really invulnerable at that age. And maybe they told their friends -- star athletes, another piece of this, often get a pass for everything they do.
BEHAR: And this boy comes from a very privileged family also.
POWELL: Right. Right.
FAIRSTEIN: That, too.
BEHAR: So that sort of gives him a pass, I think.
But you said something interesting, that separation is the vulnerable time.
FAIRSTEIN: Yes.
BEHAR: I often hear this you know. You are stuck with somebody who is violent and you find out after you`re married to them or with them and then you want to get rid of them and you can`t do it. Because you`re afraid he`ll kill you if you leave. What is a woman supposed to do?
FAIRSTEIN: Well, I think, you don`t try to do it alone when there have been these signs and threats. There are signals now in domestic violence work. We use the expression, "lethality factors". We try and measure from prior conduct, from language how dangerous someone is likely to be.
And so somebody who has used the words literally, "I`m going to kill you," someone who has used those words and put his hands on a woman`s neck, off the charts for predictability that this guy is likely to kill.
BEHAR: When he actually has done something.
FAIRSTEIN: When he`s done something like that.
BEHAR: Are there other signs, Kevin, that women can look for before they put their hands on you?
POWELL: Well, absolutely. Part of the reason why I do anti-gender violence work now is because I was that person 20 years ago. And one of the things I say is that you have to look at people`s backgrounds. If there`s a family environment where there`s yelling and screaming. We see that with this young man`s family. If there`s always some form of violence happening -- physical violence happening. That`s a warning sign.
And I think that, you know, Linda`s right. The young lady or the elder woman, whoever it is -- all ages have got to reach out to folks in the community because there are folks there. There`s DV prevention centers all around the country. There are shelters around the country. You`ve got to tell someone. The worst thing you can do is allow the abuser to isolate you because that leads to the kind of things we just saw happen here.
BEHAR: If a woman gets a threat like that, is it ok to like have a couple of like Uncle Frankie and Uncle Louis rough them up a little bit.
POWELL: That`s old school.
BEHAR: Is that what -- I don`t want to -- that is old school. But in my neighborhood that`s what they were dealt.
POWELL: I practice non-violence.
BEHAR: Push him up against the wall and say, "you go near her one more time, your head is going to be on the ground --
POWELL: I do think you know --
BEHAR: -- detached from your body."
POWELL: I think you should find. I think you should -- we don`t want to encourage more violence. But we want encourage --
BEHAR: Oh no one would know.
FAIRSTEIN: The 30-year prosecutor in me says, of course, you can`t do that. The novelist says --
BEHAR: Oh the novelist.
FAIRSTEIN: -- says, "Send him over."
BEHAR: Well, that`s where I`m coming from.
POWELL: That`s where you -- ok.
BEHAR: Yes but anyway, thank you guys very much.
POWELL: Thank you.
BEHAR: I hope this helps a little bit out there because this really is a serious issue.
POWELL: Absolutely, absolutely.
BEHAR: And we have daughters out there.
POWELL: We all even -- if we don`t daughters, they`re still our daughters.
BEHAR: Yes, they`re all our daughters.
POWELL: Yes.
BEHAR: Thanks very much.
POWELL: Thank you.
BEHAR: We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, 88-year-old Betty White scores a huge ratings bonanza for "Saturday Night Live".
And an "I do" over for Seal and Heidi Klum as they renew their wedding vows for the fifth time.
Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Well, earlier today, President Obama officially nominated Solicitor General Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELENA KAGAN, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: I am honored and I am humbled by this nomination and by the confidence you have shown in me.
Mr. President, I look forward to working with the Senate in the next stage of this process and I thank you again, Mr. President, for this honor of a lifetime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Kagan has had a brilliant career including being the first female Dean of Harvard Law School. But despite her impressive resume she lacks judicial experience and a paper trail leading many on the left wondering if Obama has moved the court further to the right.
Here with me now are, Lizz Winstead, comedian and co-creator of "The Daily Show" and Jeffrey Toobin, CNN senior legal correspondent. Welcome, guys.
Ok, she`s a Democrat, Jeffrey.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
BEHAR: How liberal is she?
TOOBIN: We don`t know exactly how liberal she is. But you can`t know exactly how any future Justice is going to be. But certainly in the broad spectrum of American politics, this is a Democrat, this a progressive. This is an Obama person, and I think she`s going to be an Obama person on the Supreme Court.
BEHAR: Yes, what do you think, Lizz?
LIZZ WINSTEAD, COMEDIAN: Well, I mean, Jeffrey and I were talking backstage. I just -- I want to believe that she`s going to continue in the Stevens tradition. I think historically, as we`ve seen new justices come up, they`re a little bit more conservative than the ones that they -- their predecessors, that`s fair?
TOOBIN: Well, it`s because the presidents are more conservative than the previous presidents.
BEHAR: Right.
TOOBIN: I mean, that`s really, you know, to determine the future of the Supreme Court, what you really need to do is look at who is winning the presidential elections because that`s what matters. If Obama gets re- elected, the court is going to move to the left.
BEHAR: But do you think --
TOOBIN: If Sarah Palin gets elected --
BEHAR: Yes, what?
TOOBIN: We`re going to have a very different Supreme Court.
BEHAR: Don`t even say it.
WINSTEAD: How can you even say that --
TOOBIN: I know, I know, I just wanted to get a rise out of you.
BEHAR: But it`s not going to happen.
TOOBIN: Right.
BEHAR: She`s never been a judge, though. Does that matter?
TOOBIN: Well, you know, in the old days, before the `70s, most Supreme Court Justices were not judges. In 1954, the court that decided Brown v. Board of Education, eight of the nine Justices where not judges previously.
It`s only in recent years that most of them have become judges and I think Obama wants to go back to the old --
BEHAR: But they are lawyers.
TOOBIN: Yes, everybody has been a lawyer for a long time.
BEHAR: Everyone has been a lawyer.
TOOBIN: You don`t have to be under the Constitution.
BEHAR: Yes.
TOOBIN: But everybody has been lawyer.
BEHAR: But you`re always a lawyer before you become a judge, so this is just a big jump from lawyer to Supreme Court Judge. That`s all really.
TOOBIN: It is -- it is a jump, but --
BEHAR: Yes.
TOOBIN: You know, the Supreme Court is not like any other court. You need a broader frame of reference than just being a judge, and I think it`s healthy not to have just judges.
WINSTEAD: Well, and I think it`s good that actually this is a woman who actually can tell the difference between a pager and e-mail, as we discovered two weeks ago when John Roberts did not know in a big case which the difference is.
BEHAR: Yes.
WINSTEAD: And so I think, someone with real life experience like e- mailing --
BEHAR: What does that say to you -- what does that say to you, that he`s not in the 21st century?
WINSTEAD: I think that would say he is not in the 21st century, yes.
TOOBIN: I would say that`s the best bet --
WINSTEAD: Yes, I would say that`s exactly --
BEHAR: Does that really make that big a difference?
WINSTEAD: Oh, my God. Yes.
BEHAR: Why, tell me?
WINSTEAD: Think of -- think of all of the telecommunications court cases that are going to come before the court; privacy on the net, things like that. If you don`t understand how the Internet works and you`re the Chief Justice of the land?
BEHAR: Well, he can learn.
TOOBIN: But you know what, they can`t --
WINSTEAD: But he rejects progress.
TOOBIN: But David --
WINSTEAD: That says you`re rejecting progress.
TOOBIN: But David Souter, who left last year. This was a guy who didn`t have a computer, who didn`t have a cell phone, who didn`t like electric lights.
WINSTEAD: Didn`t he live in his parent`s mother`s basement.
(CROSSTALK)
WINSTEAD: -- we all thought, come on be honest.
TOOBIN: He used to move his chair around his chambers to catch the sunlight coming through. I mean, that`s how anti-technology he was. But he wrote the court`s opinion --
WINSTEAD: Like an Aztec sun cloth.
TOOBIN: -- in the (INAUDIBLE) case about file sharing that was actually a very savvy opinion. So he was capable of learning.
BEHAR: Now, the only thing that she did that seems controversial is barring the ROTC from the campus.
TOOBIN: Correct.
BEHAR: At Harvard right? When she was the Dean there.
TOOBIN: Right.
BEHAR: That seems to be the only thing they`re going to get her on. The Republicans are going to be all over this because they would like somebody less liberal.
TOOBIN: Sure.
BEHAR: So what are they`re going to do?
TOOBIN: Well, I think they are going to try to portray what she did as anti-military and somehow sinisterly pro-gay rights. Most universities have the same policy. She tried to fight the "don`t ask, don`t tell" policy and the law that supported it.
BEHAR: She hates it.
TOOBIN: And she -- she --
BEHAR: Yes.
TOOBIN: I mean, that is one issue where a very cautious person like Elena Kagan has been outspoken, and that`s against the "don`t ask, don`t tell" rule. I don`t they`re going to get any traction out of that.
WINSTEAD: I also think if that`s the big, you know, if that`s the big gun that they`ve got in their arsenal --
BEHAR: Yes.
WINSTEAD: -- the rest of their arsenal is firecrackers. I mean, that really seems lame.
BEHAR: Right. What about her --
TOOBIN: And you see today --
BEHAR: Yes.
TOOBIN: -- the Republicans are not coming out firing. I mean, they are saying, "oh, we`re going to have to study it", but it is not like they`re setting the stage further --
BEHAR: So this is a shoo-in, this might be a shoo-in.
TOOBIN: It may well be.
(CROSSTALK)
WINSTEAD: Considering her vote for -- when she was Solicitor General.
BEHAR: Yes.
WINSTEAD: She got -- she got seven Republican votes.
BEHAR: Right. But what about the fact that her personal life seems to be -- people whispering.
WINSTEAD: You know they shouldn`t.
TOOBIN: I mean, I --
WINSTEAD: Let them whisper. You know what? Let`s just start a new rumor. That she had an affair with Obama that -- you know what else can we say, I mean --
BEHAR: Gingrich.
WINSTEAD: Oh, yes, yes.
BEHAR: She had an affair with Gingrich.
WINSTEAD: Let`s start there.
TOOBIN: You know, Elena and I were law school classmates so I`ve known this woman for almost 30 years.
BEHAR: Oh, did she ever come on to you?
TOOBIN: No. It`s so good to be here, Joy.
BEHAR: This is not CNN Jeffrey.
TOOBIN: No, I know. Well, that`s right.
WINSTEAD: Exactly.
BEHAR: He`s got to get used to it.
TOOBIN: It`s so -- it`s so much better.
WINSTEAD: Yes.
TOOBIN: The -- but you know, she`s a normal person.
BEHAR: Yes.
TOOBIN: You know she --
WINSTEAD: As opposed to --
TOOBIN: As opposed to --
WINSTEAD: Take it back --
TOOBIN: The -- you know, she`s from the Westside of Manhattan. She used to smoke like a chimney.
BEHAR: Yes.
TOOBIN: She`s struggled --
WINSTEAD: I love her already.
BEHAR: I like her but that`s not exactly normal.
TOOBIN: She struggled to quit smoking for many, many years. She was successful --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Like Obama.
TOOBIN: Like Obama. Well, I don`t know how successful that was.
(CROSSTALK)
WINSTEAD: That`s why he picked her. They share a struggle with smoking.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: All right. We`ll be right back with more of this discussion. Don`t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the lovely Lizz Winstead and the lovely Jeffrey Toobin.
This woman, Miss Kagan, if she gets on the Supreme Court, there will be no Protestants left on the Supreme Court, you realize that? It`s just Jews and Catholics.
TOOBIN: Three Jews and six Catholics and four New York City boroughs will be represented. Scalia`s from Queens, Sotomayor`s from the Bronx, Ginsberg is from Brooklyn and Kagan`s from Manhattan.
BEHAR: That`s a very --
TOOBIN: That`s diversity. Where is Staten Island? Why is Staten Island being discriminated?
BEHAR: Wait a second. Let`s say you`re in Kansas City or Kalamazoo, don`t you look at that and say, what about us?
TOOBIN: You might.
WINSTEAD: The under-represented white Protestant community?
TOOBIN: You know what they would say? Tough. Right?
BEHAR: Well, I mean --
WINSTEAD: I`m not worried about those people. They have plenty of representation.
BEHAR: The whole country is designed by Jefferson and the rest of them, all Protestants and it`s come to this.
WINSTEAD: I don`t think Jefferson was a Protestant. I believe he was --
BEHAR: Well, he was a theist, wasn`t he?
TOOBIN: A theist.
BEHAR: I believe.
WINSTEAD: I believe he was a secular humanist.
BEHAR: Now Eliot Spitzer has endorsed Kagan.
TOOBIN: They were classmates at Princeton.
BEHAR: With friends like him, who needs enemies? Why does she need Spitzer to endorse her? Really. Can he be quiet? Mind your own business.
WINSTEAD: I think he`s very smart, even though he`s a little bit --
BEHAR: Can you say hypocrite?
WINSTEAD: Yes.
BEHAR: All right.
WINSTEAD: How many dumb hypocrites do you know? Hypocrites have to think about it and then become one. You don`t see an idiot as a hypocrite, usually hypocrites are fairly smart.
BEHAR: Really?
WINSTEAD: Look at my dating record.
BEHAR: You know, by the way, while we`re on this -- you know, the Miranda rights --
TOOBIN: Yes, let`s talk more about your dating record.
BEHAR: Wait a minute.
TOOBIN: The Miranda rights are in jeopardy with these terrorists and everything. You know all about that right.
Glenn Beck agrees with you I think and says that everybody who is --
WINSTEAD: He also likes chocolate, I just want to point it out. If we`re going to say Glenn Beck agrees with you --
BEHAR: Can you let me finish the sentence?
WINSTEAD: Yes.
BEHAR: He believes that American citizens should always be read their Miranda rights. You agree with Glenn Beck.
WINSTEAD: I do agree. I do agree. I don`t understand how you have rights for some American citizens and some for others. I just do not believe that is how our country --
BEHAR: Well, I would think that if they eliminate Miranda rights, their going to eliminate it for everybody who is suspected of terrorism.
TOOBIN: There are certain circumstances under a ticking time bomb scenario which the situation in New York was literally almost that, where you want to investigate public safety more than you want to worry about whether you can use something in court against them. This is not saying you can torture somebody. It`s just saying you can question them without Miranda rights.
BEHAR: Yes.
TOOBIN: That`s not a huge change in the law.
BEHAR: I think that that would be very popular because you say, "You have the right to remain silent. Ok, I`m silent."
TOOBIN: The interesting thing though is most people --
BEHAR: It`s tricky. It`s a slippery slope to really unraveling something that is very important to the principles of the United States.
WINSTEAD: That`s exactly right, it is.
BEHAR: It frightens me a little bit that they would unravel that. Doesn`t it frighten you Jeffrey?
TOOBIN: I mean I think in a limited way to protect public safety, it doesn`t frighten me that way. I mean I think --
BEHAR: Really?
TOOBIN: Yes, it doesn`t. Particularly when you`re doing terrorism investigations; again you`re not talking about torturing people. You`re simply delaying when you can inform them of their right to get a lawyer.
Now look, I think that should be the exception, it shouldn`t be the rule, but I do think that it might be a good reason for an exception.
WINSTEAD: I disagree.
BEHAR: I know you do. Thank you very much, you guys. Always a pleasure to see you.
Betty White hosted "Saturday Night Live" over the weekend. We`ll break down the legend`s performance next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Eighty-eight-year-old Betty White hosted SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE this weekend, giving the show it`s highest ratings in a year and a half. Just think, in five years, she`ll be ready for 60 minutes. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETTY WHITE, ACTRESS: My carrot cake is obviously legendary, but if there`s one thing I`m known for, it`s my muffin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Florence, there`s a tangy taste in this muffin. Is that a cherry?
WHITE: Oh, no. My muffin hasn`t had a cherry since 1939.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here to talk about Betty`s muffins and much more are Paula Froelich the Entertainment journalist and former editor of Page 6, comedian extraordinaire David Brenner, and Bonnie Fuller, president and editor in chief of hollywoodlife.com. Hi, guys.
PAULA FROELICH, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: Hi.
BEHAR: Should we really be so surprised that a show biz veteran like this knocked it out of the park I`m mean she`s been at it for so many years.
DAVID BRENNER, COMEDIAN: No that`s like saying I don`t tell jokes.
BEHAR: Yes.
BRENNER: What bothered me though is that this woman with all this talent had to get tackled and thrown in the mud before anyone would give her a job.
BEHAR: Oh the ad.
BRENNER: Yes the commercial. Imagine your grandma, my old Jewish grandma getting tackled. You know what, it made no sense. She`s so brilliantly funny.
BEHAR: Yes well the people don`t think of people who are 88 being on TV anymore.
BONNIE FULLER, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: Or being brilliantly funny. They forget how great George Burns was, he had a whole career after 90.
(CROSSTALK)
FROELIC: Yes exactly, he`s god.
BEHAR: And then what is his name? What`s the guy, take my wife, please? Henne Youngman -
BRENNER:
BEHAR: Henne Youngman who was in his 90`s would be sitting at the fryers like this, and then you would go up and say, Henne, and he would go, take my wife, please. He would wake out of a coma to do his joke.
BRENNER: Do you know guys know all the old guys, have you ever seen George Burns and they`re all sitting there, and the older ones too - they`re all sitting like this -
BEHAR: Yes.
BRENNER: Until the lights go on.
BEHAR: Right and then they come alive.
BRENNER: Then they become 25 years old.
BEHAR: Yes, but she was -- I think she was very, very, very good. But do you think the material was a little too racy for her? It was a little racy?
FROELICH: No, she always played racy characters except for "THE GOLDEN GIRL."
BEHAR: That`s true.
FROELICH: Except, no, no, in "THE GOLDEN GIRLS," she played the dumb one, but she was supposed to be the sexy one because she`s always played kind of racy kind of slut before.
BEHAR: Oh you mean originally, that was the casting? Oh, I didn`t know that.
FROELICH: But I have fun fact. I just hope at this point "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE" is now going to have better hosts. They`ll take any Tom, Dick, and Paris Hilton. And now it`s like, fine, get some people who know what they`re doing. I just want --
BRENNER: I never did "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE." In the heyday of my career.
FROELICH: So are you like going I`m open, call me?
BRENNER: That`s what I want, my fans -
(CROSSTALK)
FROELICH: You need a Facebook thing. Joy, you know someone for him.
BRENNER: I didn`t get it because they said I belonged to Johnny Carson. I did Johnny Carson.
BEHAR: Oh yes.
BRENNER: So Steve Martin did it. But they said, he did this before Johnny Carson. I don`t know what.
FROELICH: they told that to Joan Rivers, Joy.
BEHAR: What is it about Betty White that is about this youth- obsessed, you know, television audience.
FULLER: Well listen I think everybody wants to have a hip grandma, and young people are looking for role models, they`re desperate for role models. And here is somebody that they can relate to. She`s older, but she looks fantastic. She`s hip, and even more, boomers are desperate for people who are alive and don`t have Alzheimer`s and are fantastic at 88. I mean it gives you hope. And we have to remember, we do have an older population now.
BEHAR: But you know, they got the best ratings in 18 months on that show, and the 18-49 is the demographic they`re always looking for. Do you think that will change now that the baby boomers are getting older in huge numbers? Do you think that will change?
BRENNER: I think it will change for her. It won`t change, but it will change for her. She`ll get -- like Tony Bennett. He got that young 18-25 because he went to MTV.
BEHAR: That`s true. No but it won`t change for television is what I want to know.
FROELICH: Yes Betty is having like a camp comeback. I mean "THE GOLDEN GIRLS," don`t ask me how I know this, there`s a big marathon everyday on Lifetime and W.E., everyone is watching it, it`s huge, it`s amazing.
FULLER: But you know if television is smart, they will go after that demographic because they have to.
BRENNER: They have the money, too. The people at that age have the money.
FULLER: That`s right.
FROELICH: I think you had it right there. If television is smart, and unfortunately, there`s not a lot of smart entertainment out there right now. And you get, if you watch -- you flip through the TV and you`re like I`m bored after two minutes. I don`t want any more reality. Forget "THE HILLS," and get me some action.
BEHAR: OK let me change the story. Heidi Klum and Seal renewed their marriage vows this weekend for the fifth time in five years.
FROELICH: We`re all jealous.
BEHAR: OK, OK and they weren`t the only ones. Torie Spelling and her husband, Dean McCormick, resealed the deal as well. Now is this a growing trend in Hollywood, Bonnie?
FULLER: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Why?
FULLER: I think for different reasons. I think for Heidi and Seal, they`re an incredibly romantic hot couple that tell everybody how amazing their relationship and their sex life is. And so they are doing it for their personal reasons. And I do think that other celebrities are jealous.
BEHAR: Jealous of what?
FULLER: Well they`re jealous of their relationship. They also see ratings in it. And I think for Torie and Dean, they shot it, I`m sure, for the reality show. People are romantic. They want to see sort of thing on TV.
FROELICH: Yes but isn`t renewing your vows kind of like going on the cover of "People" and saying I`m so in love and the next thing you know they are dialing their divorce lawyers.
FULLER: Exactly.
BENNER: Right.
FROELICH: And not only that it`s like, enough already. We get it, you are in love. And by the way who renews their vows on Mother`s Day weekend when everyone wants to be with their own mother. And their own parents.
FULLER: We all do, we all get it this weekend.
FROELICH: It`s like throwing a wedding on Memorial Day weekend.
BENNER: I think they ought to have their divorce over and over. Every year you get up there with your lawyers, you scream and yell at each other. Yes, I would do that.
FROELICH: It`s like Jon and Kate. We renewed the vows because we got it for free, everything was for free. Oh by the way, I hate him.
BEHAR: But as a general rule, I think it`s dangerous to renew vows.
FROELICH: Totally.
BEHAR: The marriage will end sooner if you continue to do that. Because the husband says to me, let`s say I`m married. And he says, it`s two years now. Darling, should we renew? And then you say to yourself, I don`t think so. I don`t feel like - I don`t want to.
(CROSSTALK)
FROELICH: Should we renew? I just struck your sister last week.
BEHAR: But it`s a tipping point in the relationship where you have the opportunity to now say I don`t want to renew.
BRENNER: What does the vow mean? What does it mean? What does it mean - the words.
FULLER: OK if they`re trying to get ratings, it means we want ratings. However, if you`re not cynical, it does -- people are in general romantic. Especially women. They like this sort of commitment. I actually talked to relationship experts about it.
(CROSSTALK)
FULLER: Because they see that people, especially after there`s been a problem in the relationship, let`s say they were having problems. It`s a reaffirmation that they were committed or they had a life challenge, somebody got sick and they came through it, people are doing it. And also a lot of people were poor when they got married, didn`t have the money, and then later they want to throw a big party.
BEHAR: Oh yes but what is it with every year, Heidi and Seal? Every single year, what is that?
FROELICH: Every year they publicize it, there`s inherent cynicism in publicizing it. I`m sorry.
(CROSSTALK)
FROELICH: I think there`s something wrong about it --
BEHAR: -- something annoying about it, I don`t know why -
FROELICH: And there`s something wrong about -- it`s I love you so much, look at me and look our vow. Hey everyone, sorry for you.
(CROSSTALK)
FROELICH: -- do a renewal for everybody else who wanted it. You know and it`s a sing along at this point.
BRENNER: I don`t get the renewing. What are you saying that makes it better? What can you say -
BEHAR: We love you still, I love you still - I want to stay with you.
BRENNER: Then say it, you know --
FULLER: Maybe your wife would like another ring.
FROELICH: So get it and leave the cameras at home.
BEHAR: OK a second straight disappointing match for Tiger Woods, the golfer dropped out of the last round of the players championship yesterday complaining of neck pain. OK David, could his wife`s golf swing have anything to do with this?
BRENNER: I think the idea of the -- what is it? He had a pain in his neck. He`s had a pain in other parts of his body in the last week, in the last month. Leave him alone. What are they doing to him? They want him to have a pain, a hernia, and that would make more sense to him. What leave him alone.
BEHAR: You know neck pain is psychosomatic very often, psychological because of stress. I think the guy, he can`t take it anymore. I really think it got to him.
(CROSSTALK)
FULLER: I think it`s psychosomatic. I think that he`s having problems with the marriage - the marriage is dissipating. They`re talking divorce.
BEHAR: Didn`t she leave, go to Sweden.
FULLER: She went to Sweden.
BEHAR: Yes.
FULLER: She came back. But from what we are hearing they`re in major divorce talks. They`re talking custody of kids. He can`t take it. And finally he`s cracking. It`s showing on the links.
BEHAR: A lot of these bimbos are suing him for money and wanting money from him.
BRENNER: Why doesn`t he renew his vows?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: See now that would be waste of time, dear.
BRENNER: I would go to see that one.
FROELICH: You know what, this whole Tiger thing smacks of me of what Michael Jackson used to do every time he was called to court. He begged, I feel sick, feel sorry for me. I can`t show up. Sorry, I feel sick. No, it`s not psychosomatic. It`s a way to get sympathy.
BEHAR: It`s manipulation.
FROELICH: It`s a manipulation, a way to get sympathy and that`s Tiger`s game is off, his wife thinks he`s a shumck. The whole country thinks he`s a schmuck.
BEHAR: OK got to go, thanks everyone very much, very nice to see you all.
Up next, you know him as the fonz, the wonderful Henry Winkler drops by. Thanks, guys.
FULLER: Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY WINKLER, CO AUTHOR "HANK ZIPZER": There`s two of you and one of me, so I want to warm up. I`ll be right back after I finish warming up, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: To many of us, Henry Winkler will always be known as the Fonz from "HAPPY DAYS," but for a generation of kids today, he`ll be remember as the man who created "Hank Zipzer." His latest and 17th novel in the series is "Hank Zipzer: The World`s Greatest Underachiever, A Brand New Me." So please help me welcome Henry Winkler. Seventeenth.
WINKLER: Seventeenth.
BEHAR: My goodness.
WINKLER: Yes, I`m very proud. I write with this incredible lady, Lynn Oliver. She`s my partner. We have written all 17 together, and I thought that I would never write one, let alone this many.
BEHAR: Is this kid supposed to be you?
WINKLER: He is me.
BEHAR: It is you.
WINKLER: The emotional part of me.
BEHAR: So a more gentile looking you.
WINKLER: Yes that`s right. He`s not circumcised as a matter of fact.
BEHAR: I can see that.
WINKLER: Yes right to the jeans.
(LAUGHTER)
WINKLER: The bulge is different, it`s amazing, yes.
BEHAR: And let me see, these books were in -- someone told me these books were inspired by your dyslexia.
WINKLER: Yes, that`s exactly right.
BEHAR: You still are?
WINKLER: Yes I am, I am you never lose your dyslexia, you learn to negotiate it. You know so one out of five children have some sort of learning challenge which is hereditary.
BEHAR: It`s hereditary.
WINKLER: Yes.
BEHAR: Is it mostly boys?
WINKLER: A lot of boys, but a lot of girls are out there having the same problems. And what happens is that they have to know is no matter how you learn, even if you`re the slowest learner in the class, it has nothing to do with your brilliance.
BEHAR: Yes, that`s right. Seeing you and also Tom Cruise is dyslexic -
WINKLER: Yes.
BEHAR: And a lot of other overachiever types.
WINKLER: Sure Rockefeller was dyslexic.
BEHAR: Oh really, now is this supposed to help children get through bad times and -- ?
WINKLER: You know what I didn`t know that. We wrote it as a funny novel, as a funny series of novels but with a kid who happens to be dyslexic. Who happens to have - so wherever my dyslexia bumps up against the world, we put that in his adventures.
BEHAR: I see.
WINKLER: He starts in the fourth grade and he graduates to middle school. Except that he forgot to have his permission slip signed, he used it to house his used chewing gum.
BEHAR: I see, I got you.
WINKLER: So he didn`t forget the flavors.
BEHAR: Now when you were a kid and had dyslexia, did you get teased and bullied and they thought you were stupid.
WINKLER: Well they did
BEHAR: Yes.
WINKLER: I mean people -- my parents actually called - I talk about this, they called me dumahunt (ph) and for those of you who don`t --
BEHAR: Dumb dog.
WINKLER: Yes, hello, dumb dog. Very supportive.
BEHAR: Lovely parents.
WINKLER: Yes, it`s true.
BEHAR: And what did you say when they call you dumahunt (ph)?
WINKLER: Well I believe it.
BEHAR: You believe it.
WINKLER: Well you know until about last Thursday, I believed it.
BEHAR: Oh so how many years of therapy to realize you`re not a dumahunt (ph)?
WINKLER: Well what happens is you live enough life and then you look around and then you see what you have accomplished. And you know, your children and then you realize, well, maybe that`s just not true.
BEHAR: You have advanced degrees, college degrees.
WINKLER: I know that was luck.
BEHAR: Why was that luck?
WINKLER: Because I really did poorly. I`m not kidding.
BEHAR: You can`t get a master`s degree -
WINKLER: I charmed my way.
WINKLER: Well the master`s degree at Yale -
BEHAR: Exactly.
WINKLER: I had a great time at Yale, but what happened was I -- it was not a lot of writing. It was not a lot of geometry. I took geometry, same course for four years.
BEHAR: Oh who needs geometry? Do we really need it?
WINKLER: It`s true. Has anyone ever said the word theorem to you?
BEHAR: Yes, very often, in bed.
WINKLER: Oh, that`s a triangle I would like to see.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK.
WINKLER: I`m with you.
BEHAR: You are. Let`s talk politics? Are you politically inclined?
WINKLER: You know what, I`m a little political. I like our president. I am shocked -- I always thought that people were elected in Washington to actually take care of the population.
BEHAR: Right.
WINKLER: That`s not really true. They`re elected to take care of their own personal family.
BEHAR: Is that what you think?
WINKLER: That what I`m thinking.
BEHAR: So you are disappointed -
WINKLER: How could you say no about everything?
BEHAR: Who are you referring to --
WINKLER: Well I`m referring to those people who say no.
BEHAR: Oh the Republican party? The party of no.
WINKLER: the party of RS.
BEHAR: They`re out to get power back.
WINKLER: I understand.
BEHAR: So they get power -
WINKLER: Here`s the other thing, I asked a guy who was a member of the Democratic Party or maybe in the leadership of the Democratic Party here in New York State.
BEHAR: Yes.
WINKLER: And I said why is it the Republicans do it so much better than the Democrats? And he said it`s because we`re selling hope and they selling fear. I said, then screw hope. We have to do something.
BEHAR: You have to scare people into voting for you.
WINKLER: Well something. And also, that`s what I`m thinking.
BEHAR: Who said that, you don`t remember who it was?
WINKLER: The man, his name was David.
BEHAR: Oh yes, I know him.
WINKLER: I`m not good with last names because I`m dyslexic.
BEHAR: Yes but you know, what about Sarah Palin? What do you think about that?
WINKLER: Sarah, it`s America.
BEHAR: It`s America.
WINKLER: Yes, she was the governor for a little while, and then she made $12 million. That`s like everybody`s dream.
BEHAR: Do you think she ever really had an interest in governing or was she always out to make money?
WINKLER: You know what, I don`t know. But I do know that she`s the most articulate member of her family. But really, you know, but OK. But here it is. It`s a wonderful thing. People listen to her and believe she knows.
BEHAR: Well you know, she was in the governor`s office and then she got a taste of the good life, I think, with these designers giving her clothes.
WINKLER: Yes, she likes the leather skirts.
BEHAR: And then she said, hey, you know, I`m beautiful. I`m fabulous. Maybe I can make some money.
WINKLER: And she did.
BEHAR: And she did, yes.
WINKLER: She did.
BEHAR: You have to give her credit for that.
WINKLER: You know, I do. I do. I think it`s incredible that this woman of very little knowledge is out there talking up a storm.
BEHAR: Now when we come back, I would like to talk to you about Botox, OK.
WINKLER: Yes, I do, too.
BEHAR: Yes, so stay right there.
WINKLER: OK, I`m not moving.
BEHAR: And we`ll be right back. I`ll see if I can move my face.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the multi-talented and adorable Henry Winkler.
WINKLER: What a nice thing to say.
BEHAR: You are. So cute. Now, has the fonz thing haunted you or not?
WINKLER: No it doesn`t haunt me. It`s with me.
BEHAR: It`s with you forever.
WINKLER: You know and the great thing about the fonz is that he reads also --
BEHAR: That`s good. OK. Now, let`s talk Botox.
WINKLER: OK.
BEHAR: What`s the story. You`ve had it?
WINKLER: No, I was asked to be ambassador for a new campaign called Open Arms, and they found -- and it`s been okayed for seven weeks -- they found a therapeutic use for Botox. My mother had a stroke. You know, sometimes the upper limb becomes tethered to the body.
BEHAR: It does?
WINKLER: Yes, it does.
BEHAR: When?
WINKLER: Because the muscles completely tighten up.
BEHAR: When you have a stroke?
WINKLER: Absolutely.
BEHAR: OK.
WINKLER: They found if they inject the fingers and the wrist and the elbow and the upper arm they can release the muscles and give hope to all of these stroke victims who could not even wash their own palm.
BEHAR: I see.
WINKLER: It`s like their arm becomes a foreign country. And all of a sudden it --
BEHAR: They inject Botox into the arm?
WINKLER: It`s a therapeutic use for Botox.
BEHAR: It also stops sweating in the armpits.
WINKLER: It does.
BEHAR: It`s indicated for migraines and also for lines on your forehead. While you`re fixing the stroke you can make yourself gorgeous at the same time.
WINKLER: Absolutely. So you get your arm back and a face.
BEHAR: It`s stunning.
WINKLER: I love it.
BEHAR: OK.
WINKLER: No but I`m overwhelmed. I met these patients. They -- that had flown in from all over the country. One man had his arm just tethered against his body for 57 years.
BEHAR: Yes, oh my god.
WINKLER: And finally had it drop away and it just was so touching. I don`t know what to do. So you go to your health caregiver and --
BEHAR: Yes, a dermatologist probably could do it. OK. Now, "ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT,"
WINKLER: "ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT"
BEHAR: Are they making a movie out of that?
WINKLER: I talked to Mitch Hurwitz, the genius behind the show. You know it`s pilot season now.
BEHAR: Yes.
WINKLER: He`s off making pilots and not as much money as Sarah Palin, but he`s making a living. And when that is over he`s going to come back and hopefully write the movie. And he said I was in it.
BEHAR: Really?
WINKLER: Yes.
BEHAR: Good.
WINKLER: I`m very excited.
BEHAR: You have a very good career all these years.
WINKLER: I`m blessed.
BEHAR: Wonderful career. You`re in this "ROYAL PAINS" show now.
WINKLER: "ROYAL PAINS." I watched it with my wife last year and now I`m in it.
BEHAR: Did you watch "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE" with Betty White? Eighty eight and half years old, she was right on the money.
WINKLER: She was brilliant.
BEHAR: Yes.
WINKLER: How about the largest audience they`ve had in years?
BEHAR: I know.
WINKLER: On that show. And my very first job in Hollywood I had four lines on the "MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW." it was a dinner party that she was throwing for Mary.
BEHAR: She was a hilarious. She used to kick the oven door up with her leg.
WINKLER: Unbelievable.
BEHAR: She was great, very funny.
WINKLER: And today still.
BEHAR: There are certain TV icons, you`re one of them.
WINKLER: Thank you.
BEHAR: And Betty White is another.
WINKLER: Thank you. I love to be in her company.
BEHAR: Yes, everybody knows the fonz.
WINKLER: They do.
BEHAR: Oh yes.
WINKLER: Hey. Yes. They do.
BEHAR: Thank you for doing that. And thank you for doing this.
WINKLER: You know what, Joy, I`m telling you I`m so happy to be here with you.
BEHAR: Thank you, Henry. I can call you Henry, right?
WINKLER: Yes, you can. Can I move my hair closer?
BEHAR: I love Jewish men, you know.
WINKLER: You do?
BEHAR: Oh yes. The book is called "Hank Zipzer: The World`s Greatest Underachiever, A Brand New Me."
WINKLER: Jewish.
BEHAR: Jewish, good night everybody.
END
