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Joy Behar Page
Playing it Straight; Major League Boycott?; Supreme Courting
Aired May 11, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, do audiences buy gay actors playing straight roles? Why not? They bought Jeff Goldblum as a fly and Hugh Jackman as a wolverine. So what`s the problem?
Then, both sides are disappointed with the choice of Supreme Court nominee Elena Kagan. Democrats want someone more liberal and Republicans want to dig up William Rehnquist.
And someone once said if the world doesn`t fit you, make some alterations. Amy Roloff has certainly lived by that credo. The star of "Little People, Big World" joins me in the studio.
That and more right now.
A "Newsweek" article says that gay actors can`t play straight and cites Sean Hayes`s performance in Broadway`s "Promises, Promises" as evidence. He says Hayes is wooden and insincere, which sounds exactly like most straight men I`ve ever dated
Here to discuss this are Amanda Bearse who played Marcie Darcy on "Married with Children"; Dan Savage, sex columnist and editor of "The Stranger" and Ramin Setoodeh of "Newsweek" who wrote the article.
Ok, let me start with you Ramin, since you wrote the article. Kristin Chenoweth -- you say that gay actors can`t play straight pointing the finger at Sean Hayes. Right?
RAMIN SETOODEH, "NEWSWEEK": Right.
BEHAR: Now Kristin Chenoweth says your article is "horrendously homophobic", quote-unquote. How do you respond to that accusation?
SETOODEH: Well, ok -- first off, I just want to say the point of the article wasn`t for me to personally come out and say gay actors can`t play straight. It was an article examining why straight actors can play gay characters like the one from "Brokeback Mountain" but it`s very rare for a gay actor to do the same in reverse -- an openly gay actor.
BEHAR: Right. You were describing the situation rather than saying they shouldn`t. Do you think she got that confused?
SETOODEH: Right. And so I was wondering why society and Hollywood and us as viewers -- why do we have a problem accepting that? That was the point of my article.
BEHAR: Do you think he`s homophobic Dan?
DAN SAVAGE, EDITOR, "THE STRANGER": No. I don`t think he`s homophobic. I have it on good authority he`s not homophobic. But I think you were indicting Hayes when you needed to indict the audience because the problem with gay actors playing straight is the audience`s inability to accept them in certain roles.
But I don`t think -- you make kind of an apples to oranges comparison. You started with Broadway and ended with the movies. We`ve been accepting gay actors on Broadway in straight roles.
BEHAR: Right.
SAVAGE: Charles Nelson Riley was male romantic lead in "Hello Dolly" in 1964. It`s really over on Broadway that gay actors and straight roles --
BEHAR: Yes. That`s what I call a stretch. Really.
SAVAGE: But film is a different ball of wax. In film we experience film differently than theater. I think Hayes can play straight and be accepted -- he clearly is being accepted by audiences.
But I think it a point and it`s a valid point that why aren`t there openly gay movie stars who play straight on film? That`s a legitimate point. But I think he got into the thicket with the Broadway thing that`s why Kristin`s after you.
BEHAR: Amanda, you came out while playing the very flamboyant straight role of Marcie Darcy on "Married with Children".
AMANDA BEARSE, ACTRESS: Yes.
BEHAR: So what do you think about all this?
BEARSE: Well, I -- I agree with Dan in that I think it`s one suggestive point of view by Ramin about Sean`s performance. It`s really that perception as opposed to making a generalization that gay people can`t play straight.
BEHAR: Ok. See, what confuses me about it is, like, take Neil Patrick Harris, he`s playing a straight guy on "How I Met Your Mother", right?
SETOODEH: Yes, but he got that role when he was straight. We didn`t know -- he wasn`t out of the closet when he got that role.
BEHAR: Well then, according to your theory the audience would reject him now that they know he`s gay.
SETOODEH: He was playing that role as a straight man until we came to accept him as a straight man. On top of that it`s a TV character, it`s not a movie character and it`s also a caricature.
BEHAR: So we`re restricting this to movies?
SETOODEH: It`s over the top, funny, humorous, character. It`s not a romantic lead where women, like, actually are supposed to believe him as a heterosexual character.
BEHAR: Now, you called Jonathan Gruff, from the show "Glee" which is a terrific show, too queenie to play straight. Now, he just came out. Do you think he should have stayed in the closet?
SETOODEH: I didn`t say too queenie. I said that it reminded me of a high school theater queen.
BEHAR: All right.
SETOODEH: I know that word -- I`m a member of the gay community myself and know that word has connotations and people take offense at it. But, you know --
SAVAGE: The furniture on "Glee" reminds me of high school musical theater queens. Everything about that show is all queenie.
SETOODEH: It is, a little bit.
BEARSE: That`s the point, isn`t it?
BEHAR: I guess so. I mean, this guy is -- is it a certain type that can`t play straight? Is it like Rock Hudson was gay, he was in the closet --
SETOODEH: He was in the closet. You know, what happened is that --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: He played straight guys really well.
SETOODEH: I think the type that can play straight we probably don`t know that they`re gay because they kept it a secret. And I think we`ve heard about actors possibly being gay but --
SAVAGE: It hasn`t hurt them. Film is moving in the direction of Broadway. I think we`re going to get there and I think people reacted negatively to the article because it felt like a step back. But we`re going to get there where people will accept openly gay actors.
You look at the big permanent actors at their constant rumors about being gay. Look at what "South Park" has done to Tom Cruise and they`re still accepted as male romantic leading roles. And that`s where we were with Rock Hudson 40 years ago and we`ll get there where people will accept them. But it`s coming. It`s an evolution.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s easier for straight guys to play gay.
SAVAGE: Oh, so much easier.
BEHAR: I mean you had "Brokeback Mountain" is an example of that and Sean Penn playing Milk and Charlize Theron playing a lesbian.
That`s a whole other conversation. Women player is a whole other conversation.
SETOODEH: Women are different. Tom Hanks in "Philadelphia" won an Oscar for that.
BEHAR: That`s right.
And today I found out that Michael Douglas is going to be playing Liberace in a movie. And his lover is going to be played by Matt Damon. How do you like that casting.
SAVAGE: And that`s progress because it used to be that an actor playing gay was a kiss of death for their career. We`ve made progress on that. Eventually we`ll have openly gay actors playing straight and being accepted.
But honestly your point that audiences still have a hang up about it is absolutely true. Just not Broadway audiences.
BEHAR: Now, Colin Firth, a wonderful British actor, he played a gay professor in this movie, "A Single Man". He said, "If you`re known as a straight guy playing a gay role you get rewarded for that. If you`re a gay man and you want play a straight role, you don`t get cast. And if a gay man wants to play a gay role now you don`t get cast."
Now Amanda, you work behind the camera. Is that true?
BEARSE: No, it`s not. And I think, you know, I`m fortunate enough to work on a show called the "Big Gay Sketch Show" on Logo which is on tonight at 10:00, by the way, new episode. And what we did with that, we were able to ask the actors to come forth with their gayness. If you were gay, let us know.
It`s a wonderful thing to be able to bring all of who you are to a character. But every actor, gay or straight, starts with a place of truth within themselves. So it`s really a ridiculous statement to say that gay actors can`t play it straight. And I`m sure we could cite some really horrible performances by straight actors who tried to play gay and weren`t successful.
BEHAR: You know, there is a point in a certain way, like I`m a heterosexual woman, right? I don`t really care one way or the other because to me, the Brits, I love the Brits. They go all over the place.
SAVAGE: And they`re all gay.
BEHAR: I think that a lot of them -- they`re all gay. A lot of American women, let`s say, who want to fantasize that George Clooney is making love to her, they don`t want to know that he`s really thinking about a guy while he`s kissing a woman. So I think that`s the point you were trying to make.
So as he said, it`s the audience`s issue, not the actors or the industry. It`s the audience.
SETOODEH: It is. It`s an audience`s issue. But if it`s the audience`s issue, it`s also Hollywood`s issue. They`re not going to cast if there`s an audience issue with it.
Also, I think we live in a time where it`s very difficult to remain private. So if you are an openly gay actor there are pictures of you and your boyfriend an every blog, on Perez Hilton, on all -- you`re constantly seeing the fact that --
BEARSE: I think an article like what you just wrote is going to keep more people in the closet as opposed to encourage people to come out, honestly, with who they are. I agree it was a step backwards.
BEHAR: Rupert Everett also suggested that gay actors should stay in the closet. What do you think of that? I mean you`re not the only one who`s really causing trouble here.
SETOODEH: Right. And I wasn`t meaning to cause trouble. I don`t want people to stay in closet. My goal was to get a dialogue going because this was being -- you know, no one was talking about this.
If you look at the "New York Times" review of Sean Hayes`s performance, Hayes reminds him of a younger brother. He doesn`t really kind of seem like a protector or a lover but a younger brother. That`s me as code for saying you know --
SAVAGE: But I would argue then he was miscast, perhaps, not that the problem was his homosexuality, because there are gay actors that you`ve seen on stage playing straight roles who knock it out of the park, who are very convincing on stage as straight people.
BEARSE: Well, I haven`t seen the show and I hope to -- I am going to in June. So I`ll know better what I think of his performance, but he was just nominated for a Tony, wasn`t he? So somebody out there think he`s doing all right.
BEHAR: I guess. I mean take somebody like Hugh Jackman who played Peter Alan in the most flamboyant role on "The Boy from Oz". He was just brilliant on that. And then he`s Wolverine. He goes back and forth I think this guy. Maybe because he`s Australian, it`s easier.
SETOODEH: He does. But he`s also -- he`s married to a woman. He`s able to go back and forth because he`s straight.
BEHAR: So your point is that if you are straight it`s ok. If you are -- the minute you come out no one wants to cast you. The audience won`t accept you as a straight actor.
SAVAGE: It becomes a lot more difficult which is a thing with film but not with stage. And you led with this comparison with Sean Hayes and stage. I don`t think theater audiences have the same hang-up.
But you are right. Film audiences experience film differently. They go for the fantasy. They want George Clooney to be making love to them. And that can be hampered in film which is a problem with the audiences, not the actors.
BEHAR: Clooney is an A-list actor. So make your point, Amanda.
BEARSE: That`s really what you`re talking about is getting the role. It`s not that they`re heterosexual A-list actors. These are the A-list actors that are getting juicy roles that happen to be homosexual.
BEHAR: They can`t stop playing gay guys all of a sudden. All these straight A-list actors want to be gay on screen.
BEARSE: Because we`re interesting.
(CROSSTALK)
SETOODEH: We know how fun it is.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Amanda, did you catch any flak for coming out while you were in the show, "Married with Children?"
BEARSE: No. And I want to address something that was said earlier about Sean -- not Sean -- but Neil Patrick Harris. He was gay when he got the role.
BEHAR: He wasn`t out though. He wasn`t out.
BEARSE: I know but he was out --
SETOODEH: He wasn`t out. He wasn`t gay to us.
BEARSE: I know, but he was out -- he was out in his life. He was out as a human being. You know, he wasn`t out professionally. So who knows behind the scenes what they knew.
And who knows about the producers or the studio or network for that matter, what his personal life was and what they knew and what they didn`t. They believed in the talent of this actor to portray this role better than anybody else could and so they cast him.
And I had that kind of support with Columbia Pictures. I had that kind of support with the Fox Network and my creative producers, Ron Leavitt (ph) and Michael Moye (ph) when I came out.
BEHAR: Well, good for you. Good for you.
BEARSE: But I was already a lesbian.
BEHAR: Yes. Well, I mean, you know, I think -- it`s a different point you`re making from that. You`re basically saying if you are out to the world --
SETOODEH: Right.
BEHAR: -- not in your private life.
SETOODEH: Right.
BEHAR: -- but to the world then you will have trouble.
SAVAGE: But it actually supports his point when we keep citing these actors who got cast and then came out --
BEHAR: Yes.
SAVAGE: -- after they got the job.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
SAVAGE: Because you can`t know what ultimately what the producers --
BEHAR: Right. Right. Ok. Everybody in my day thought Liberace was straight. Go figure.
Thanks guys. We`ll be back in the minute. They did.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, outrage over this year`s Miss USA Pageant as beauty queens trade in their tiaras for teddies.
And from the hit TLC reality show "Little People, Big World," Amy Roloff.
Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Arizona may be trying to keep illegal immigrants out of their state but in doing so they may be driving everyone else away, too, along with their hard earned dollars.
I`m back with Dan Savage, editor of "The Stranger," and Senator Bob Menendez, a Democrat from New Jersey who is calling on Major League Baseball to boycott Arizona. Welcome to the show.
Senator, you`re calling for the all-star game to move out of Phoenix. Tell me about that.
SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D), NEW JERSEY: Well, we`ve called first on Major League Baseball players and their organization to say that they`ll boycott if Major League Baseball doesn`t change its mind and leave Arizona. And you know, with one out of every four players in the Major League Baseball being Latino it would be ironic that they would go to a state where, in fact, except for their notoriety they would be ultimately, you know, profiled in such a way that their fundamental rights would be violated.
That`s in essence what the Arizona law does. It creates for Latinos in this country a suspect class and Major League Baseball certainly the national pastime shouldn`t be rewarding that.
BEHAR: That`s right. Do you think it will have any impact at all or a major impact? What`s your prediction?
MENENDEZ: I think so. I mean, you know, it`s interesting the Major League Baseball Players Association came out against the Arizona law. So we`re asking them to take a step further, say we appreciate you came out against the Arizona law, it was the right thing to do.
Now, we`d like you to say, you know, Major League Baseball, change the location. And if we can get them to change location I think we`ll have sent a strong message to Arizona that you can`t treat a group of U.S. citizens even though you say you`re going after undocumented immigrants.
But the way the law is written if I`m walking down the street and I meet your suspect class of individuals who might be an undocumented immigrant I get stopped and I get asked all types of questions. And most Americans wouldn`t really want to see that happen to them.
BEHAR: Dan, do you think it`s a good idea to boycott?
SAVAGE: I think it`s a great idea.
BEHAR: You do.
SAVAGE: The Major -- football it`s call -- what`s the World Series of football? The Super Bowl.
BEHAR: Super Bowl.
SAVAGE: They pulled it from Arizona in the `80s because they refused to recognize the Martin Luther King Jr., day Holiday. And it worked. It moved the state off its really blatantly racist stand on the Martin Luther King Day holiday. So boycotts are effective, boycotts can right this wrong.
BEHAR: Yes.
SAVAGE: And I think that Major League Baseball, just like football should scuff up and do the right thing and yank the all-star games.
BEHAR: So the war could possibly be repealed for financial reasons because Phoenix estimates it could use up to -- lose up to $90 million in the next five years.
But Senator, shouldn`t this law be repealed for the right reasons, rather than, you know, for money? When are we going to do the right thing here?
MENENDEZ: Oh absolutely, Joy. I mean, I agree, it shouldn`t have even been passed much less that we have to seek to repeal it. But the bottom line is, you know, I saw that the Governor of Arizona said, well, stop complaining and talk to the federal government who hasn`t met their obligations.
Well, she needs to start talking to her two United States senators, both Republicans, who don`t want to move ahead on comprehensive immigration reform. She needs to talk to members of her party who don`t want to move ahead on comprehensive immigration reform.
You can`t be the Governor of Arizona and say the federal government is failing to meet some of these critical challenges and yet members of your party don`t want to move forward on type of immigration reform that would both secure the borders and figure out what we`re going to do with 12 million people in this country and what we`re going to do in the future --
BEHAR: Right.
MENENDEZ: -- as it relates to some of the economic challenges we have.
BEHAR: It`s a lot of people. And you know, State Representatives in Michigan and Oklahoma want similar legislation. Who is sneaking over the border into Michigan and Oklahoma?
SAVAGE: Who wants to be in Oklahoma? And that`s why boycotts like this are even more important, so that other states and state legislatures and governors think twice before they sign something like this into law in other states.
BEHAR: Right.
SAVAGE: And then you make an example of Arizona.
BEHAR: A lot of people, Senator, say that this is all happening because the federal government dropped the ball. Republicans hate the feds, usually, to do anything, but in this case they`re putting the blame in the federal government. What do you say to that?
MENENDEZ: Well, it`s always interesting, you know, when -- now that we have the spill in the Gulf Coast they want the federal government to respond. Yet, those very -- many of those very same governors say keep the federal government out of my state --
BEHAR: Right.
MENENDEZ: When there`s an issue like this you want the federal government to respond. And I agree. It`s the federal government that should be dealing with immigration policy, but when members of the governor of Arizona`s party are the largest impediment to moving forward on comprehensive immigration reform, she needs to be talking to members of her party including her own two U.S. senators in Arizona, to get the ball moving forward so that we can make the type of reform that`s necessary.
BEHAR: So what is it going to take to get rid of this? It`s an outrageous, outrageous law in my opinion and yours and yours, too, Senator?
MENENDEZ: Well, Joy, let me just --
BEHAR: Yes.
MENENDEZ: -- let me just tell you the consequences. Even before this law was passed we have seen, I have seen in cases that have come to my office in the senate, over 200 cases of United States citizens and legal, legal permanent residents of the United States who obey the law, follow the rules who now subsequently got caught up in immigration raids and many of them were detained, in some cases for months before their status was determined to be a U.S. citizen.
Now, what -- who among us would accept to be a second-class citizen in this country haven`t been born here and been a citizen. None of us would.
BEHAR: That`s right.
MENENDEZ: And that was before the Arizona law; Arizona only aggravates that and that`s why it`s not acceptable. That`s why Major League Baseball shouldn`t be there.
BEHAR: Stay right there, you guys. We`ll be right back in a minute with more topics.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Elena Kagan became a household name this week when President Obama nominated her to the Supreme Court. His decision has riled up the left, the right and the center. Nice going.
I`m back with columnist Dan Savage and New Jersey Senator Bob Menendez.
Dan, Kagan urged Clinton to support a ban on late-term abortions as a political strategy. We don`t know if she really believes in it.
SAVAGE: We don`t know much about her as a judge. She`s never been a judge. She`s never written an opinion. She`s been a political animal all her professional career.
Isn`t it better to have a tabula rasa in a certain way so the Republicans will just say, ok, let her do it?
SAVAGE: I don`t think the Republicans are going to say, ok, let anyone do anything that Obama wants them to do. Or are going to sign up on anyone Obama nominates. They`re going to treat her like she`s the farthest left liberal who`s ever been nominated in the history of Supreme Court. Obama might as well have nominated the farthest left liberal he could find.
We get a centrist to replace Stevens, who`s the only reliable liberal, a liberal lion on the court. For those of us who supported Obama that feels like not what we were looking for when we wrote those checks.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You know that`s true Senator Menendez. There`s no equivalent to Justice Scalia, who is really far to the right in my opinion, and Alito also and Roberts. There isn`t anybody on --
SAVAGE: And Thomas.
BEHAR: And Thomas for goodness sakes. There`s nobody on the left. And they keep dropping like flies anyway.
He knows her well, Obama. Do you think he knows something we don`t know?
MENENDEZ: I think he`s looking for someone who can bring the elements of the court together in common toward opinions that he would likely want to see. Obviously he`s not appointing individuals just for the sake of getting them through and on to the court. He`s appointing individuals who I think share his philosophy, so if you trust the President I think you probably are going to trust his nominee.
Just because she hasn`t had judicial experience and there have been previous justices of the Supreme Court who have not had judicial experience doesn`t mean that we`re not going to find out about a lot of her views and at the end of the day that people wouldn`t feel extremely comfortable with her from a progressive point of view.
BEHAR: I love this Senator Cornyn of Texas, who is upset that she doesn`t have any judicial experience, Senator Menendez. Yet when Harriet Miers was nominated to the Supreme Court he was extolling the beauty and virtue of the fact that she had no judicial experience.
I mean, come on, you can cut the hypocrisy with a knife.
MENENDEZ: Well, look, I did not expect the Republicans to do anything but try to make a cause celebre at whoever the President`s nominee is going to be.
BEHAR: How about a little consistency of what they say? He has no credibility, this guy.
SAVAGE: Harriet Miers turned out to have a brain stem.
BEHAR: Dan, let me ask you this other thing about -- there`s a sexuality thing going around. That`s coming from the left. They`re questioning her sexuality. Is that relevant?
SAVAGE: That`s right. Right wing Christian groups have asked if she`s a lesbian or not. There`s a lot of gay and lesbian issues that are coming before the court. There`s gay marriage cases that are coming before the court. It is relevant. If she were a heterosexual we would know. There wouldn`t be -- no one is an ambiguous heterosexual. We found out when Sonia --
BEHAR: What about Scalia, he`s very ambiguous.
SAVAGE: He is very heterosexual.
BEHAR: And Rehnquist, I saw the outfits he used to wear when he was on the court, very flamboyant.
SAVAGE: Here`s the cover of the New York times, when she was 13 years old, we found out about Sonia Sotomayor having been married and divorced, not having children. When it comes to straight people, there`s no hesitance about sharing details of their private romantic life.
Having considered your private life -- marriage, family, those are public acts. But about her sexual practices, about who she is, we have a right to ask that question. It`s a legit question.
BEHAR: Ok. All right. Senator Menendez, Dan, thanks very much.
Up next, another dustup for Miss USA coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: No, it`s time for the annual miss USA pageant, and this year the 51 contestants shot their official photos wearing lacey lingerie, sexy fish nets and thigh-high boots. Question, who`s running this pageant, Michael Steele? Here to discuss -- here to discuss this topic and many more are comedian Kathleen Madigan, comedian Rich Vos. And host of WNBC`s "TALK STOOP WITH CAT GREENLEAF," Cat Greenleaf. OK, did you see the pictures?
RICH VOS, COMEDIAN: Yes, I saw some of them.
BEHAR: Are they too racy or not racy enough?
VOS: Look it, it`s not a spelling bee, OK?
BEHAR: Yes.
VOS: You want to see some flesh, you know what I`m saying? If it was, like, Nancy Pelosi, OK, full-body armor, all right? But these girls you want to see some skin.
KATHLEEN MADIGAN, COMEDIAN: Yes, go ahead.
CAT GREENLEAF, HOST, "TALK STOOP WITH CAT GREENLEAF": What makes this different than the bathing suit competitions of all the years past? I mean, it`s just bronze pennies you know --
BEHAR: No, no, no, no. There was a lot of cleavage. I saw. And the fish nets are very suggestive.
MADIGAN: And why are we still having beauty pageants? I mean I don`t even understand that. Then the one lady said, well, it shows the confidence these women have. I`m like, what, to be in your underwear? I guess -- you need to tell little girls here`s what you need to get good at. Get comfortable in that underwear because you don`t know where you`re going to need it. You don`t know what kind of job you are going to have young lady when you grow up you where you are going to need to go to work in your underwear and feel good at your desk.
BEHAR: The pageant officials say it`s a chance for contestants to show off confidence and embrace their own sexuality.
VOS: You know what, it doesn`t matter, in five years the winner is going to be on a reality show sleeping with a washed up rock star, OK?
MADIGAN: Probably.
VOS: It`s what`s going to happen.
BEHAR: What if they`re comfortable with their own sexuality and they`re, like, into S&M or something? It`s not an open and shut case just their confidence, right? Go ahead.
GREENLEAF: I think Donald Trump did his job. We are sitting here discussing it so now they promoted the pageant. We`re all talking about it and probably going to watch it.
(CROSSTALK)
MADIGAN: We`re still not -- I`m not going to watch it. I didn`t know it was still on television. You can`t mix this up. They have this woman, and she`s on, like, Victoria`s Secret, I don`t know what happened there. That turned into a nightclub when I took a nap. I go on Victoria`s Secret and I`m like, I`m a hooker? I just wanted a bra. But you can`t have this going on and say, oh, she plays the clarinet.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: -- wrong piece.
MADIGAN: Yes. She`s going to talk about Iraq and Afghanistan in her underwear. Why don`t we do that?
BEHAR: No remember Carry Prejean? She got in trouble for a sex tape. And the Donald gave her the old heeve ho - but he says it`s going to be great. Everybody is going to be watching so I have no problems with it, he says.
GREENLEAF: Yes, well he says, everyone is watching.
VOS: Well because there are no hypocrites in television. He saw -- he saw all the heat that she got. He said, you know what, let me jump on the bandwagon.
(CROSSTALK)
MADIGAN: That`s right. He should pay her for the idea.
GREENLEAF: How can -
BEHAR: The pageant is down 12 percent from 2008 and 32 percent from 2007. So they need to --
MADIGAN: Do something. This isn`t going to be it. I mean, if they were naked, totally naked, people would watch.
BEHAR: Isn`t that next? Isn`t that next, come on?
MADIGAN: That`s all that`s left. Or where we just kill somebody from a state and the loser gets shot.
BEHAR: Remember that?
MADIGAN: That I might watch.
BEHAR: OK. There`s a new reality show in the works that will sell off three virgins to the highest bidders. The show will air in Australia, but will be shot in Nevada. Three virgins in Nevada. Is that a reality show really?
VOS: First of all, you can`t even -- you can`t sell a kidney online but yet you can sell virgins on television. And first of all I don`t think they`re hot because the key word is virgin so I don`t think anybody -- you know what I mean?
BEHAR: The terrorists love the virgins. They can`t wait to die and find the virgins.
MADIGAN: Well what woman`s going to want a guy virgin?
BEHAR: Well that`s a question.
MADIGAN: I don`t get -- that`s like a pity purchase. Like, really? That guy`s never had -- just give him 20 grand.
BEHAR: Why does a man like a virgin who`s a female and a female doesn`t like a male virgin? Tell us why.
VOS: The reason I want a virgin because I`m so horrible in bed she`ll think that`s the norm. OK? She`ll go --
BEHAR: I see the point.
VOS: She`ll go, he was great. That was like the best minute of my life. You know what I mean? Because I`m done before -- you know -- so -- what does she have to compare it to?
BEHAR: I can see that point of view. What about from a woman`s point of view? Would you want a male virgin, Cat?
GREENLEAF: I think I had one once and it was, you know, it was fine. Probably not worth the $20,000 that these guys are making. But what I will say is this. I`m no scientist. But like, how do you prove that the guy is a virgin?
BEHAR: You have to believe him. You have to ask him the question.
MADIGAN: I bet if we saw his picture --
VOS: What gets me is --
BEHAR: Do you want to see an interview with one of the virgins?
GREENLEAF: Yes, let`s see a picture.
BEHAR: OK, this is with "News Limited" in Australia. Listen to what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VERONICA PAIGE BROOKS, AUCTIONING OFF VIRGINITY: It`s gotten to the state now where I`m kind of, all right, why am I holding on to it? Like, people tell stories about their first times and how they regret it. It was with a boyfriend, it was great, they still haven`t done it and they`re older than me. I mean I`ve heard every story. I don`t know why everyone hypes it up so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m like really, who understands what the hell she`s saying?
MADIGAN: I bet you could get more than 20 grand on Craigslist. Really, really, I wouldn`t go on the show. No, if I was that lady, I would say no. Didn`t someone sell their virginity on Ebay -
BEHAR: Yes.
MADIGAN: Last year? What did that lady get? A lot.
VOS: How did I miss that bid?
GREENLEAF: I feel like we`re being punked. I just don`t think this can be real. Yes, I think it`s a farce.
BEHAR: Do you think - OK, people do anything to be on television, though, right? They`ll just do anything. Look at us. OK. Moving on. "Playboy" magazine`s June edition will feature a centerfold pictorial in 3-D. I hear it`s so life like you can get an STD by flipping the pages. Look at this, Richard. Check it out. This is the girl. I can`t really show this on this show but she looks sort of like a barbieish thing.
VOS: I can`t believe what have you got be on this man.
BEHAR: And then you put, here, put the glasses on. Let`s just put the camera on Richard and see his response.
VOS: First of all --
BEHAR: Let`s see.
MADIGAN: That is sexy.
BEHAR: Stop, I`m aroused.
VOS: When I`m looking at naked pictures the last thing I need is another prop, you know what I mean? My hands are already full, you know?
BEHAR: What do you think?
VOS: What do I think?
BEHAR: Yes.
MADIGAN: Does it work?
VOS: I`ll tell you -- I don`t care about this. What, are you kidding me? It`s not doing anything. Now I`m looking at a girl in 3-D that will never sleep with me. OK? Now I`ve seen her come from every angle. I should have stopped on the other joke where I said prop. That was a laugh and I should have stopped there.
BEHAR: All right give it back.
MADIGAN: What if she was one of the virgins on the TV show?
BEHAR: It doesn`t matter.
VOS: It doesn`t make a difference.
BEHAR: SO, Hugh Hefner, think - you know his sales are down on "Playboy" magazine. So he thinks this will zip sales up.
MADIGAN: Well he`s so old, that`s a new idea to him. The last picture show I saw was with 3-D glasses. No one is going to buy that.
VOS: If it was the girl from "Avatar" it might be OK.
BEHAR: Yes well she`s a beautiful girl. What are you, kidding me? About you, Cat, what do you think?
GREENLEAF: I think it`s a genius idea. Let`s sell magazines. I happen to love the magazine industry. I want it to survive.
BEHAR: Really like "Newsweek" is in trouble. I cannot believe it.
GREENLEAF: Well, 3-D nude pictures in "Newsweek," -- Nudeweek.
BEHAR: They`re having their own private conversation n over here. We`re on television, you idiots. OK. One more story. Only in Alabama. The republican primary for treasurer is between George Wallace Jr., remember his lovely father? OK. And a man named Young Boozer. That`s the guy`s name, OK, check out a piece of the Boozer`s add.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG BOOZER: I`m young boozer. And yes, that`s my real name. I`m running for state treasurer. We don`t need higher taxes. We need a fiscal conservative to invest and manage our money.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alabama needs Young Boozer, an experienced conservative leader.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Young Boozer, funny name, serious leadership.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I would vote for -- if I was a Republican I`d vote for him.
MADIGAN: What a waste of a fun name. That`s an awesome name and that`s the least fun man I`ve seen on television.
BEHAR: Yes, I know.
MADIGAN: Yes, my name is Young Boozer. I want a guy with his hat on backwards going, I`m Young Boozer and going to take Alabama to the top.
BEHAR: What do you think of him?
VOS: Well he`s going to beat his opponent young crack addict. The only thing that could be worse if his middle name was Hussein, OK?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Young Hussein Boozer.
MADIGAN: I think he`ll win because people will think they`re voting for alcohol. They`ll just go, booze, yes!
BEHAR: What kind of parents did he have? They must hate him.
GREENLEAF: Funny ones. Too bad he`s not running in Staten Island. It`s like his -- like his porn name. You know, one of those things you put in the internet and get his porn name.
BEHAR: Did you say his (EXPLETIVE DELETED) name?
MADIGAN: I said wutang man -- where is your head? Wutang Clan.
GREENLEAF: We`re on television. Need I remind everyone?
BEHAR: You never see politicians with a sense of humor. I think he`s fun. I like him.
MADIGAN: It wasn`t a funny ad.
BEHAR: Oh yes, he`s probably the most conservative person in the whole country, forget it. All right, thank you, everybody.
VOS: That`s it?
BEHAR: If you`re in New York catch Cathleen on May 15th.
GREENLEAF: Saturday.
BEHAR: Yes.
Up next, I`ll be joined by one of the stars of "LITTLE PEOPLE, BIG WORLD," Amy Roloff.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMY ROLOFF, CO-STAR, "LITTLE PEOPLE BIG WORLD": I definitely have a competitive nature, and if I have a shot at winning, I`ll take it. Regardless of who I`m playing with.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just play up to 35.
ROLOFF: Play again? No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Amy Roloff is like many women, married, kids, works two jobs, but unlike most women Amy is a little person, and unlike most little people Amy has that big hit show on TLC called "LITTLE PEOPLE, BIG WORLD." welcome to the show, Amy.
ROLOFF: Thank you Joy.
BEHAR: So nice to have you here.
ROLOFF: It`s good to be here.
BEHAR: Now the show "LITTLE PEOPLE, BIG WORLD," we like to call it LPBW, is that what they call it?
ROLOFF: LPBW. "LITTLE PEOPLE, BIG WORLD." you know?
BEHAR: Yes, OK it`s in its fifth season. But I was reading you weren`t thrilled with the idea in the beginning, why not?
ROLOFF: Well I mean I wasn`t thrilled about having the show in the beginning because, you know, suddenly what`s behind closed doors is now going to be all open for the world to see.
BEHAR: Right.
ROLOFF: And for me being a little person, when you go out in the world you`re faced with certain obstacles, attitudes, people`s impressions of you. You put a certain frame of mind on yourself when you walk out that front door and OK, I`m ready, you know, bring it on.
BEHAR: Right.
ROLOFF: But when you come home you`re like, OK let`s just hang out and just do whatever you want to do, but now the cameras see that.
BEHAR: The cameras are there.
ROLOFF: So where do you go from there to have your space?
BEHAR: I know, it`s hard. Ask the Gosselins.
ROLOFF: Yes.
BEHAR: Do you -- did they come to you, the proposal? Did you find -- I sound like my aunt Julie. Did they call you or did you call them?
ROLOFF: My people call you?
BEHAR: Yes, how did that all come about?
ROLOFF: They truly came to us. You know, I often kid people, no, it wasn`t Matt`s idea. A producer came to us, saw us on -- what I think was some national publications at that time that we were in and just thought our family was interesting and Matt and I looked at it as -- even though I didn`t want to do it, after a while, because I wanted to keep my kids grounded and based on, you know, their life. Their life is school. TV comes secondary. So whatever you do, you know, doesn`t get in the way of that.
BEHAR: Well that`s smart.
ROLOFF: But, you know, what an opportunity we had, though, too, being little people. Being -- having disabilities -- to have, you know, us on an episode, on a series and not just a one-time special of just normalizing us. Dwarfism, little people, disabilities. Yes, just because I`m in this package I`m in --
BEHAR: That`s right.
ROLOFF: -- we have a lot more similarities. Yes, Matt and I fight. We have a great time with our kids. Yes, my house is a mess because I`d rather go to my kid`s soccer game or something. And I think what people saw as being maybe a big difference in the beginning, they see so many more similarities to their own families.
BEHAR: That`s good.
ROLOFF: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s very good.
ROLOFF: Yes.
BEHAR: Some -- you know, most reality shows are rather exploitive. I mean let`s face it. You`re in somebody`s home, you`re watching them fight, some people get divorced, exhibit "A" and "B" I mentioned before.
ROLOFF: Yes.
BEHAR: And this particular show because of the disabilities, as you call it, could be construed as more exploitive. Though, really, as if people are look like, we don`t know people who look like these people, but when we watch it on TV there`s a voyeuristic element to that. Do you agree with that or not?
ROLOFF: But see I look at it as more - you know Matt and I have advocated, done education, whether in schools, whether it be him being president of little people of America, and I on the board, and things. So you know, we`ve gone out and done things already to help people educate about disabilities, dwarfism and all that stuff. We looked at this show as not exploitive or kids or us or anything like that, but normalizing it. Yes, we`re not elves, you know, at Christmas time or leprechauns during, you know, March --
BEHAR: It`s a rough stereotype.
ROLOFF: It is.
BEHAR: It`s hard.
ROLOFF: People stop at a certain point. But I`m hoping our show, whether about dwarfism or other disabilities, we`ve brought them inside, we`ve crossed over the barrier. Yes, my house is not all little. It looked big on the outside but not all little on the inside. You know, we live a normal life. This is my normal.
BEHAR: Right, let`s talk about the terminology. You referred to it as dwarfism. Then there are other terms like midget. How do you feel about midget? I think that`s probably a pejorative term at this point, correct?
ROLOFF: I`m not too - you know, I don`t get too hung up on the p.c. thing. Because I think political correctness, I think prevents open communication on a lot of stuff.
BEHAR: Yes.
ROLOFF: We`re not allowed to talk about the elephant in the room. But I go little person, dwarfism, a dwarf, all those are fine. You know midget is considered derogatory. It`s considered very negative. It`s considered a very demeaning terminology when it comes to describe me. Or little people or dwarfism. But I think a lot of times that has changed over the years. I don`t think it always had such a negative thing, but now it does and for me it really depends on how people use it. I mean, if someone innocently said oh, yes, there`s the midget, you know, was it used in a mean way? Or they just didn`t know?
BEHAR: The intention. It`s an old-fashioned way of referring to, I guess, small people.
ROLOFF: Yes.
BEHAR: But there`s a difference between dwarfism and being a little shorter person, isn`t there? There`s a difference, right?
ROLOFF: There is. Some people are just short, period. Like, Joy, you may not be too much taller than me.
BEHAR: I`m only 5`4" 1/2.
ROLOFF: You`re tall.
BEHAR: But I come from an Italian family. They`re all short.
ROLOFF: Yes. You know, there`s just short people just to be short. There are some people short because of pituitary. You know something along those lines.
BEHAR: Yes, how about that song, remember that song, "Short People Got No Reason To Live?" that was kind of a snotty song.
ROLOFF: Oh I think so too because I look at it, you know, ups and downs, everyone has.
BEHAR: Yes.
ROLOFF: I live a great life.
BEHAR: I`m sure every person got every reason to have a reality show by it.
ROLOFF: And I always say - well, I always tell people, you know, big isn`t always better.
BEHAR: That`s right.
ROLOFF: Little`s pretty cool too.
BEHAR: I guess so in certain ways.
ROLOFF: Yes, it is. You always get remembered.
BEHAR: Hold on there. We`re going to be back with more from Amy Roloff right after this short break. OK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Amy Roloff. Amy, tell me about the charity that you have.
ROLOFF: To me that was up of the huge best opportunities I had from the show, because, you know, what else am I going to do with my celebrity except maybe go out and help some people? So I formed the Amy Roloff Charity Foundation to help out families, kids, disability groups, and so what we have coming up is a big cruise. I`ve worked with Royal Caribbean, so a portion of each reservation will go back to my charity foundation, but the big thing about that is Haiti, you know our port of call is going to be in Haiti. So I thought well, instead of just making that fun, port of call, I`ve worked other companies, Seventh Generation, and I think a gentleman from Nike, and, you know, various other things and worked with a non-profit to help orphanages.
BEHAR: That`s nice.
ROLOFF: And kids over there.
BEHAR: Yes, they are having a lot of trouble -
ROLOFF: Yes, so the port of call is going to do that. And I have a big golf and dinner event which will help out our local Portland Shriners Children Hospital.
BEHAR: Good, you`re helping people with your celebrity.
ROLOFF: I figured, I have enough stuff, I might as well give back if I can.
BEHAR: That`s right. These are twitter questions for you. Do you ever sleep, someone wants to know.
ROLOFF: Sleeping is boring. No. No. I do sleep, but, you know, when I go places and I do things, you know, I don`t know -- maybe it`s a little bit proven to myself that I can and maybe proven to other people I can`t.
BEHAR: How much sleep do you get?
ROLOFF: Probably only about six hours.
BEHAR: That`s enough.
ROLOFF: Yes.
BEHAR: Six hours is OK. It`s not like two hours.
ROLOFF: I figure if you sleep until 10:00, 11:00, I`m thinking, oh my gosh, four hours the day went by and I wasn`t part of it.
BEHAR: I know, maybe a little cat nap in between.
ROLOFF: Yes.
BEHAR: Someone wants to know, would you do "DANCING WITH THE STARS?"
ROLOFF: You know, it`s funny, maybe because someone else did "DANCING WITH THE STARS," I get that question a lot.
BEHAR: Why who else did it? What do you mean someone else?
ROLOFF: Well, Kate, Kate did it.
BEHAR: Oh, Kate Gosselin. Oh the other reality star.
ROLOFF: I mean, I love to dance, but you know, the reality of me being on "DANCING WITH THE STARS" is probably quite low because I don`t like doing something where I know I don`t even have the possibility of winning.
BEHAR: Are you a good dancer?
ROLOFF: Well, I don`t know about that but I like to dance.
BEHAR: Yes. OK. Someone said you acknowledged you could do a better job keeping house. Do you think you may be a hoarder?
ROLOFF: I don`t think I can do a better job at keeping house. What I do like to do, my mopping the floor and we do a lot better since we`ve remodeled the house on keeping up. I`ve worked with my kids in the sense of at least keep the public areas clean. Do whatever you want in your own room but let`s try to keep the public areas, you know, clean. No, I`m not good at organizing and picking up because --
BEHAR: Can`t you have someone help you?
ROLOFF: Well we do.
BEHAR: You do?
ROLOFF: Matt insisted on that now.
BEHAR: Matt.
ROLOFF: But I like to have fun with life.
BEHAR: You mentioned matt a lot. Someone wants to know is there truth to the divorce rumors? Where did those come from?
ROLOFF: You know, when you`re in a heated discussion or heated debate, you know, usually a couple will throw out certain things and stuff like that. But --
BEHAR: It must be because of the Gosselins who used to argue on camera and now they`re divorced. So maybe that`s where they started.
ROLOFF: I`m sure it is. You know, to me, it`s like we`re not going through anything that a normal couple doesn`t go through. We just happen to have it on air.
BEHAR: Everything`s on air.
ROLOFF: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, it`s a little scary I think. You might want to think about continuing it indefinitely.
ROLOFF: Oh, well no "LITTLE PEOPLE, BIG WORLD" will come to an end. We want to end on a good note whenever they may be.
BEHAR: Thank you very much, Amy. Lovely to meet you.
ROLOFF: Yes, you too.
BEHAR: Catch her on "LITTLE PEOPLE, BIG WORLD" Mondays at 8:00 p.m. on TLC. Good night, everybody.
END
