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Joy Behar Page
Miss USA Tells All; Voters Revolt
Aired May 19, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, you know, the right wing is looking for a scandal to topple the 24-year-old Miss USA, and really they are grasping at straws now. They just released pictures of her naked on a bear rug taken 23-and-a-half years ago.
Then, Rand Paul, the first tea party candidate to win a primary, will be on the show tonight, at least I hope he will. We`re so fiscally conservative here we`re bringing him in by bus.
And Jonathan Rhys Meyers threw around the "N" word in a first class round at JFK. You know that`s too bad. I used to love him. Now I have to go back to fantasizing about Regis.
That and more right now.
Miss USA Rima Fakih was supposed to be here tonight, but she had a little accident in the green room. So it`s just moi. No, I`m just kidding.
Miss USA, Rima Fakih is here. Here she is. Put it back on your head, darling.
RIMA FAKIH, MISS USA: I don`t think I can balance it either.
BEHAR: You`ve perfected the wave.
FAKIH: I did the wave.
Yes. I don`t want to do the whole -- this is the Miss America. I think Miss USA is more like hey, everyone.
BEHAR: You know, you do look like the Statue of Liberty now that I think of it.
FAKIH: I do?
BEHAR: Yes. Give me your tired, you`re poor and you`re desperate. So congratulations.
FAKIH: Thank you.
BEHAR: On your win. Are you all -- are you excited? It`s wonderful, isn`t it?
FAKIH: I would think every time the president Paula Shugart leaves the room or anyone that is with the Miss Universe organization I grab a towel and I go, "I`m really Miss USA."
BEHAR: And yet the whole thing has been surrounded with controversy, but that`s good, you know. Controversy is great.
FAKIH: Yes. I`m the number one search on Yahoo! and Google, I heard.
BEHAR: There you go, baby, so you`re excited about that.
FAKIH: I am excited. I think -- I think that, you know, when you`re successful, everyone wants to be part of your success.
BEHAR: That`s right.
FAKIH: Yes.
BEHAR: Nobody likes you when you`re down and out.
FAKIH: Yes. No one wants someone that`s just plain.
BEHAR: So here -- here are some photos -- they`ll show some photos of you pole dancing, all right? We`ve seen these. First of all, you`re fully clothed.
FAKIH: Yes.
BEHAR: And some people say that that should disqualify you just standing there with your shorts.
FAKIH: A bunch of women.
BEHAR: You`re fully clothed. I saw some of the pictures of the -- in the lingerie models things for the USA, what is it? I don`t even know what I`m saying.
UM1: Well, that one was more like the shoot -- the theme shoot for every Miss USA you do. It`s called "Waking up in Vegas". This was the theme, and as can you see on the screen right now, those are beautiful, artistic -- I would like to say -- pictures that were shot by Fadil.
That`s mine.
BEHAR: They are wonderful looking. I mean, you look beautiful.
FAKIH: Thank you.
BEHAR: But those are much more suggestive I think than you in front of the pole frankly.
FAKIH: You know the pole -- we were talking about it. Have you ever heard the pole dancing exercise classes where a bunch of women get together, and you can say that that`s what that would be, I mean. Because it`s about 100 women that call in, try to be the 95th caller, and once they get in, they learn how to dance and feel sexy and learn how to belly dance and get on the pole.
BEHAR: Why is there money in your brassiere.
FAKIH: You know what? Those pictures are not supposed to be taken. Those were pictures taken by my own friend who worked with the radio station. And to be extra funny, because we were all left home with the sponsor of the event who happened to give out prizes, and that was something I took home to be extra funny because I`m known to be silly. I put money in my bra and we took a shot like cheese and those pictures ended up getting released. And they were taken into -- a very different context that they were not supposed to be.
BEHAR: Right. We`re not going to see some kind of a sex tape come out of you now?
FAKIH: No, not at all.
BEHAR: Nothing like that.
FAKIH: Nothing at all. I`ve always been known to be very respectful to my family and to my reputation. And I think that once those pictures were released, they were released in a very different context than they were not supposed to be.
BEHAR: Right.
FAKIH: So everyone took them as if I was stripping and really to be honest with you, it`s just a competition, sorry, competition -- it was more of an event held by the radio station.
BEHAR: Right.
FAKIH: And it was a promotional event for every woman to compete.
BEHAR: All right. Now, you`re the first Muslim --
FAKIH: Well, not Muslim.
BEHAR: And the 2nd Arab-American to win.
FAKIH: I think it`s the first Arab-American.
BEHAR: Where is your family from?
FAKIH: Lebanon.
BEHAR: Lebanon, that`s right.
So you feel responsible to break stereotypes about Muslim women? Do you feel that?
FAKIH: I heard that there`s -- I think I would more like to say Arab women. I don`t know about the whole --
BEHAR: Are you Muslim?
FAKIH: My family comes from a Muslim background, and we`re more -- not defined by religion. I`d like to say we`re a spiritual liberal family.
BEHAR: So you`re not a devout Muslim? The family is not devout.
FAKIH: We do celebrate Christmas and we`re very liberal in many ways. I have Christian and Muslim faith in my family, but we are Muslims.
BEHAR: From what I view, I was raised catholic. I don`t know that much about it, but it seems to me that the Muslim community frowns on beauty contests and on posing in lingerie.
FAKIH: Yes.
BEHAR: And having pole dancing events. I mean, I don`t think they like that.
FAKIH: I was raised a bit different.
BEHAR: How did they react to all of this?
FAKIH: I also went to a Catholic high school so my family was very different. I think -- I`m not very sure on how many have frowned upon this, but it`s just like every faith that has a strict part. You have the Muslims who are very strict and didn`t like maybe what I did.
However, my family -- I can only speak for my family and the people I know, they are very proud of me. They take it as if I`m not, you know, up there for beauty or to pose in a bathing suit but for something more significant. For being beautiful on the inside, for being wise and for standing up for something that`s a positive image rather than something that everyone else is trying to portray as negative.
BEHAR: I see. Now I won`t name names -- Michelle Malkin and Gretchen Carlson -- but these two women say that you won because you`re Muslim. How do you like that?
FAKIH: Interesting.
BEHAR: That it`s like a politically correct thing to do to -- to like sort of pageant affirmative action. How do you like that?
FAKIH: I can`t say that that would be a correct statement. That`s a false statement just because I`m not the first Muslim to win Miss USA.
BEHAR: Also, aren`t you from Michigan which is American, I believe.
FAKIH: Yes, I am.
BEHAR: Isn`t that the number one point that you`re an American girl.
FAKIH: Yes, it is. I`m an American girl, and just to be clear, I`m not -- I mean my family comes from many different backgrounds of religion. And so I can`t say I won besides the reason that I won based on the criteria of the Miss Universe organization. That is, you know, a personal interview knowing the history of your country, knowing the current events, being able to stand up for what`s right. Being able to volunteer and take part in the platform which is breast and ovarian cancer awareness. And to do much more for your country.
And also, August 23 I`ll be representing USA in the Miss Universe pageant which is going to be in Mandalay Bay, in Las Vegas. So it will be in the United States. What better place to be?
BEHAR: Right. I hope you win. I`d like you to win.
FAKIH: Thank you.
BEHAR: Other people, they were sort of irritated, some people in this country, that for some reason you won and beat Miss Oklahoma. Number one, they say that you stumbled on your dress as proof that the contest was fixed, as if no one has ever stumbled on their dress.
What do they think, you`re going to be running the country or something like that? What is their problem with you?
FAKIH: I would like to say one thing. I think that me stumbling and standing up -- look at that? Like I mean who can smile after stumbling like that? I think that showed -- I think that showed everyone and anyone can just prove to somebody you can always stand tall and no matter what happens you can always smile because if you let that get to you, everything else following that would be negative.
Also, I felt so confident in my personal interview with the judges because if you`re a judge and you`re part of the Miss Universe organization, you`re not going to say, well, this girl is educated. She`s able to represent the United States. She`s beautiful on the inside and the outside but she stumbled on her dress so we`re not going to let her win. We`re going to let someone else win.
BEHAR: They are nitpicking, a lot of these people.
FAKIH: Yes. So I really think that I represented something that every girl fears which is sliding but to be able to stand up tall and say to yourself, you know what, that is not going to be based on if I win or lose because I did so well in my personal interview and meeting Mr. Trump, boss, and being able to show my true self.
Being able to stand up after that little slip would be able to show them that, you know what, I still stand for what`s strong. And just like the United States. No matter what happens, we still stand strong, and I think that can represent. Look at that, how I turned that into a slip. I`m very patriotic, aren`t I?
BEHAR: You turned that into a patriotic moment.
FAKIH: Yes, we can.
BEHAR: I feel like singing the Star-Spangled Banner.
Here are some pictures of Miss Oklahoma that we`re showing. She`s answering a question in support of the Arizona immigration law.
FAKIH: Yes.
BEHAR: And the girl said that, you know, she believed in the law which basically would check on papers of people in Arizona to make sure that they are legal in this country, but she doesn`t believe in racial profiling, so she gave them kind of a balanced answer.
FAKIH: Yes.
BEHAR: But she says or some people say it cost her the competition. Do you think that`s fair?
FAKIH: I don`t think that it cost her the competition was her final answer. I think that she was neutral on her answer which is right to be, at this point, especially when you don`t know a lot about what`s going on in Arizona and about what`s going to --
BEHAR: They didn`t ask you the question. What was the controversial question they asked you?
FAKIH: I was asked about birth control -- and I`d like to refer to it as "the pill". And if it should be covered by insurance and I even kind of stumbled on my answer which I thought I did. Because I work in the medical background and I said that it was a controlled substance which I meant to say it was as costly as a controlled substance.
I think that everyone looks at the pageant as from the opening number, to bathing suit, to final evening gown, to the final question. They don`t know we go through a preliminary show and we go through personal interview as well as meeting Mr. Donald Trump.
BEHAR: But do you think they need to ask you these kinds of questions?
FAKIH: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s a beauty contest basically.
FAKIH: It`s a beauty contest, but it`s beauty and beauty on the inside and the -- also the knowledge behind. I mean, how would you like it if you met Miss USA and you asked her so name the three judicial branches and she said what`s that?
BEHAR: Yes.
FAKIH: How would you like if you asked her, do you know what happened in New York --
BEHAR: Yes, because you`re representing the country, that`s true.
FAKIH: Yes, I mean you`re --
BEHAR: But as far as the inner beauty is concerned, that`s really hard to check.
FAKIH: Oh, of course.
You were just talking about that earlier.
BEHAR: Yes, no later we`re talking about it.
FAKIH: About -- about being beautiful on the inside.
BEHAR: Yes, that`s right.
FAKIH: And about meeting someone who is beautiful but after talking to them and realizing their personality; then they don`t seem as beautiful as they were before.
BEHAR: Well, I think you`re charming either way.
FAKIH: I think so.
BEHAR: I think you`re charming and you`re beautiful and it`s mine.
FAKIH: All right, Joy.
BEHAR: Thank you very much.
FAKIH: She can have whatever she wants.
BEHAR: Rima Fakih and congratulations.
FAKIH: Thank you so much.
BEHAR: Ok. Up next -- I love this crown -- Ron Paul`s son won the Republican senate nomination in Kentucky, Rand Paul will be here to discuss what it means for the Tea Party.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Tea Party candidate Rand Paul won the GOP senate primary race in Kentucky last night, either in spite of or because Dick Cheney endorsed his opponent. We`re not sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY SENATE NOMINEE: I have a message, a message from the Tea Party, a message that is loud and clear and does not mince words. We`ve come to take our government back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Paul knocked out GOP establishment favored Trey Grayson. With me now is Dr. Rand Paul. Hi. Congratulations on your win last night, Dr. Paul.
PAUL: Thank you. Thank you. Glad to be with you.
BEHAR: Ok. You say you want to take the government back. From whom do you want to take it back?
PAUL: That`s a good question. I say from the special interests that seem to use government like it`s their own personal ATM. I also get annoyed by politicians that come to my state with big oversized checks with their name emblazoned upon them as if it`s their money, you know, that they are giving, and they name parks after themselves and they name roads after themselves.
For goodness sakes, it`s our money. It`s not their money, and I think they are doing a disservice by spending a lot more money than they are actually receiving, and I think the deficit ultimately leads to grave problems for countries.
BEHAR: So you don`t -- you`re not talking really about the Obama administration then. Who are you -- I don`t get that. You`re not talking about -- that.
PAUL: I`m talking about -- yes, I`m talking about overblown government and deficits, but you know what I tell people is we doubled the deficit under Republican control, but now we`re tripling the deficit, so it`s -- to me and to the Tea Party, if you go to any of these things, it really is about bipartisan blame over the deficit.
We`re unhappy a lot of times with the spending from both parties, not just from the current administration.
BEHAR: So I see that. Yes, that`s true. Do you identify with the Tea Party or the GOP then? Where are you?
PAUL: Well, it`s interesting -- it`s interesting. I went to the 1976 Republican convention, and so I`ve been a Republican my whole life. But I tell people, you know, Jefferson talked about that every generation must renew its defense of liberty.
I think also every generation must redefine and define what their political parties mean. I mean, look, the Republican Party in 1920 got 90 percent of the African-American vote. Not anymore, so something happened. People either changed or the parties change. And so every generation we get to redefine what the party, is and that`s what a little bit of this Tea Party is. It`s a struggle for defining what the Republican Party means.
BEHAR: Right. And does it bother you at all, Rand, about seeing those kind of racist images that we`re all seeing that are connected to these Tea Party events?
PAUL: Well, it`s interesting, you know. I`ve seen them on the national media, but I haven`t seen them at any of the rallies I`ve gone to. I`ve probably been to 50, 60 Tea Parties. I`ve been to interview with their inner circle, with their committees. I`ve not met anyone who is racist in the movement.
I think when you get -- gather 100,000 people together, there will be a few outliers, and it`s like anything else, I think the media seems to be captivated more by the outlandish behavior as opposed to the 99 percent there that are people who just believe in limited government or believe the deficits are bad.
BEHAR: Let me quote Dick Cheney.
PAUL: It doesn`t sound like I convinced you.
BEHAR: Well, because I -- I think that the Tea Partiers such as yourself and the good people in the Tea Party need to really get those people out and prohibit them from any kind of voice in the party because it`s getting a bad name. And lot of the things you say are very appealing to all Americans, and yet it`s alienating to people like me to see that.
PAUL: Yes, and I think the reason for it also is the Tea Party has kind of been open mike night. Everybody shows up and voices their grievances, and so some are overblown and overwrought, but what I hope is by my victory I get to help to define what the Tea Party becomes.
To me its term limits, which I think have universal appeal, Democrat, Republican, independent.
BEHAR: Yes.
PAUL: To me it`s also making them balance the budget. I think as a class of people Congress is just untrustworthy with a few exceptions, and that they need to be forced to balance the budget by law.
BEHAR: Right.
PAUL: So it`s really about reform. I think they should read the bills. I think there should be a waiting period before they pass any bills. I think that when they pass bills, they should apply them to themselves.
I think the Tea Party is unhappy about a certain arrogance in Washington that says, you know what, we`ll pass social security taxes on everybody else, but then we`ll set up our own pension plan that`s a little better than everybody else`s.
BEHAR: Ok.
I`m familiar with your father, your father`s positions, too. I thought that a lot of what he said in the primaries made a lot of sense to a lot of different people, but let me read you something Dick Cheney said and he endorsed your opponent.
He said, "We need senators who truly understand radical Islam and al Qaeda and who will work to strengthen our commitment to a strong national defense and to whom this is not just a political game." He`s sort of implying that you -- because you believe in small government maybe and you`re not interested in the wars that he likes to start will not be able to handle the military issues that confront America.
How do you respond to that?
PAUL: Well, -- well, the interesting thing is he also said deficits don`t matter, and so I`m not sure he would win a lot of votes in the Tea Party right now, so we do think that deficits do matter. I also think that the number one priority of the federal government is national defense, but you have to define what that means.
You have to have a good and long debate over what is national security, when is it threatened. And when we go to war, I think we go to war by declaring war not willy-nilly with some sort of use of force resolution that people debate and say it meant one thing or another thing.
We haven`t declared war since World War II. I think when you go to war we should declare war formally. And it should be the most important vote that any Congressman or senator ever takes. And if I ever have to make that vote, I vote on it based on my three sons going to war or myself going to war.
BEHAR: Well, thank you very much, Rand, and good luck in the election that you`ll be running in.
PAUL: Thanks, Joy.
BEHAR: And say hello to your father.
Up next, Bret Michaels was on Oprah today. We`ll discuss the rock star`s amazing recovery.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Less than a month after having a brain hemorrhage, Bret Michaels went from his hospital bed to Oprah Winfrey`s show. Let`s take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRET MICHAELS, SINGER: It puts things in perspective real quickly. You instantly put into your life what matters the most that exact time.
OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: Really.
MICHAELS: People say this happens, but it -- it`s really happened to me. You immediately -- it is your immediate family, your kids, your best friends, and at that point you`re not thinking about anything else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here with me now is Lauren Sanchez, weekend host of "Extra". Hi, Lauren.
LAUREN SANCHEZ, WEEKEND HOST, "EXTRA": Hi, Joy.
BEHAR: You know, a lot of people get really nice after a near-death experience, but Bret Michaels was already really nice. So how much nicer is he going to get?
SANCHEZ: You know, I don`t think he can get any nicer. He`s competed against Holly Robinson Peete in "The Apprentice". They`re neck and neck right now. And even Holly went on saying, you know this the type of guy -- Bret -- if you run out of gas, he`s the first one you can call and he`d be there even on two hour`s sleep. So I don`t think he can get any nicer.
But you have to remember this is a guy who went from like reality kind of has-been to like America`s sweetheart.
BEHAR: Yes.
SANCHEZ: He really is such a great guy.
BEHAR: He is. Everybody seems to like him. Oprah asked him about his infamous bandana. So listen to his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WINFREY: Now, we noticed when we saw you lying in the hospital bed with all the wires and tubes and things, you still had your bandana on.
MICHAELS: It`s -- it is like superman without the cape. I don`t want to -- I said if I`m going out, I want to go out rocking. If I have got to go, I said leave the boots on, some form of the bandana and a cape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I love the way he dealt with his possible death, you know. He was very funny about it. That may be the only way to deal with it, right, such a terrible thing.
SANCHEZ: Yes. And really he`s a rock star through and through, even in his near-death experience. You know, Joy, he`s not 100 percent yet. He`s still having trouble moving around a lot, and "Extra" has learned that he`s even going to start going to rehab twice a week now which is a big deal.
BEHAR: Well, you know, you were talking about "Celebrity Apprentice" before. Do you think he`s going to win? Will Donald pick him, do you think?
SANCHEZ: Well, he`s neck and -- yes. I mean, exactly. He`s neck and neck with Holly Robinson Peete but Donald has hinted just a little bit that this is such a great guy, he would real like to see this happen for him and he also said that ratings have never been better.
BEHAR: Oh, wow.
SANCHEZ: And it has a lot to do with Bret Michaels and what he`s been through, but he`s such a good guy. And you know what? They are even saying he`s going to attend the finale on May 23rd, so I think it will be a good one.
BEHAR: Yes. He`ll probably win because Donald -- besides being sympathetic to Bret, Donald has a show to run, and wouldn`t that make him better copy than have him win right now than Holly, not for nothing.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok, there was another very funny part of the interview that he did with Oprah. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELS: I had a fear, no kidding. It hit me in the middle of the know that he would show like a neurosurgeon`s brain that`s big and thick and normal and I would have this little walnut inside, this teeny little brain like oh, God, don`t show him that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He`s cute, you know. He`s self-deprecating, but he doesn`t have a teeny brain, he did very well on "Celebrity Apprentice" on his own, right?
SANCHEZ: He did. But I have to say this. We all know men are concerned about size. It`s just nice to know that some men are concerned about the size of, well, their brain.
BEHAR: Very well put Lauren.
SANCHEZ: It was nice to know that. It was nice to know.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you so much for joining me tonight.
Up next: more good news for celebrities. John Travolta`s wife is expecting a baby. So, stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Good news for John Travolta and his wife Kelly Preston. They are expecting another child in November. With me to discuss this and other topics are Carson Kressley, TV personality and host of "TRUE BEAUTY" Daisy Fuentes, TV personality and author of "Unforgettable You: Master The Elements Of Style, Spirituality, And True Beauty." And Jen Lancaster, author of the longest title of the history of anything, "My Fair Lazy: One Reality Television Addict`s Attempt To Discover If Not Being A Dumb Ass Is The New Black Or A Culture Of Manifesto." OK. That is one of the most exhausting titles I`ve ever had to read.
CARSON KRESSLEY, HOST, "TRUE BEAUTY": I didn`t want to read the book, it was so much reading on the cover, that I`m exhausted. I`m done.
BEHR: Exactly, I know. OK now Travolta and his wife Kelly, unfortunately they lost their son last year which was a terrible blow.
KRESSLEY: Right.
BEHAR: I heard that he was so upset. Who wouldn`t be?
KRESSLEY: Right.
BEHAR: But this is good news for them, isn`t it, that they are having another one.
KRESSLEY: Yes, I mean, they did. They had that awful tragedy last year and I think, you know, they are very private people obviously and they were pretty much out of the media during the whole, you know, loss of their son -
BEHAR: Yes.
KRESSLEY: And I think this is great, you know, to have a little glimmer of great news in their future. I think Kelly is something like 47. I think he`s 56, so good for them.
BEHAR: Yes, right.
KRESSLEY: I`m delighted.
DAISY FUENTES, AUTHOR, "UNFORGETTABLE YOU": Right. I think everybody really hurt for them when that tragedy happened, and I think that something like that can really break a couple apart. It can really tear you apart going through so much pain that this is probably the best way to bring them together.
BEHAR: Yes.
FUENTES: And how great that she could do this at 47. So I think not only is it great for them, but I think a lot of women over 40 are probably saying to themselves, hmmm.
BEHAR: Honey, they are doing it at 70. They can breast feed standing up.
FUENTES: OK well that`s crazy.
BEHAR: All right, now you know, Jen, they are a very private couple. Do you think the paparazzi will leave them alone?
JEN LANCASTER, AUTHOR, "MY FAIR LAZY": Honest to god I hope they cut hem a break. Here are people who have been so private with their children, and then they had this story splashed on the headlines that I hope -- I really do hope they are left alone and they only get the publicity that they want.
BEHAR: Back to your point. There`s a lot of couples doing this in their 40s. I have the list, Marcia Cross from "DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES" and Geena Davis also in her 40s -
KRESSLEY: Right.
BEHAR: Had a baby. Is this like a trend for women to have a baby in their 40s?
LANCASTER: Forty is the new 30.
KRESSLEY: Totally.
FUENTES: I think that, especially today, women are focusing more on their career and they are waiting longer to have children. You know, I think the pressure from society is still there to get married and have children.
KRESSLEY: Right.
FUENTES: This is what you`re supposed to do at a young age. But I think today more than ever women are really embracing their independence and doing what they need to do and because medicine is allowing you -
KRESSLEY: Right.
FUENTES: To do this later -
BEHAR: Yes.
FUENTES: Women are opting for that.
BEHAR: Well it`s not that simple to do.
FUENTES: No, it`s not.
BEHAR: I mean you do have only a few eggs left as you reach 40.
KRESSLEY: I don`t have any left.
BEHAR: Exactly.
KRESSLEY: Mine are all gone.
BEHAR: You never had any.
KRESSLEY: Darn it.
LANCASTER: There`s probably science that went into probably getting her pregnant.
KRESSLEY: I`m sure.
LANCASTER: That`s not my business, but I`m glad for them, really happy for them.
BEHAR: Yes. OK. Moving on.
KRESSLEY: OK.
BEHAR: Another story. There are reports that Elin Woods enrolled in a night college course in Florida. It`s nice to see Elin hitting the text books rather than the windshield. OK, what do you think she`s studying in college? Divorce what?
KRESSLEY: I think she`s probably getting her masters in divorce law, how to spend $100 million.
BEHAR: Yes, isn`t she doing what women who are humiliated do, go back to school. You know a lot of women when they get a divorce, they are miserable at first and they are crying and then they get their masters degree and move on
FUENTES: I think it`s genius she`s doing it. What`s her option, posing for "Playboy"? I think it`s smart.
KRESSLEY: Right.
FUENTES: I think it`s a great way to really nourish your mind after something so, like you said, humiliating, and why not? It`s exactly what I`m talking about in the book, kind of empowering yourself. I mean, crap happens to everybody. She had nothing to do with what happened to her.
BEHAR: No.
FUENTES: So kind of get over it. Get past it. It happened.
KRESSLEY: Yes.
FUENTES: You -- you deal with it how you have to deal with it and move on and do something positive for yourself.
BEHAR: But wouldn`t posing for "Playboy," that would be such an exhibitionistic move in my opinion. She doesn`t need the money. She`s loaded. Why would she do anything like that? Give her credit.
FUENTES: Well I mean that`s what I`m saying that I think some women will opt, you`re so screwed up mentally -
KRESSLEY: Right.
FUENTES: At that point -
BEHAR: Yes.
FUENTES: That you almost want to get back at whoever hurt you or you want to be what`s going to do most scandalous and take away from the attention that`s really bothering you.
LANCASTER: Here`s what I want her to do, I want her to hook up with every fraternity boy on campus who ever had a Tiger Woods poster in his dorm room, and I think that`s how she should get revenge, you know, quietly, but that`s what I would like to see her do.
BEHAR: Yes or date his best friend.
LANCASTER: Yes, that would be outstanding.
BEHAR: You know, she, I was studying psychology -
KRESSLEY: Right.
BEHAR: Before she married Tiger. So, you know, maybe she will go back to that and be a shrink and try to figure out why she`s attracted to men like Tiger Woods.
KRESSLEY: Definitely not going to study zoology. Too many tigers and cheetahs in the past.
FUENTES: I was wondering where you were going with that one.
BEHAR: Well good for her, right?
KRESSLEY: Yes, reinvent yourself.
BEHAR: All right, let`s go to another story. There are at least two more reality shows about New Jersey coming up. "JERSEY COUTURE" and "JERSEYLICIOUS." what`s next, "ARE YOU SMARTER THAN SNOOKI`S HAIR?" What is this, you are from Jersey, Daisy, right?
FUENTES: Yes.
BEHAR: So why do people love to talk and have shows about Jersey?
FUENTES: I just think that there are so many characters in Jersey.
KRESSLEY: Right.
FUENTES: That`s a fact. Really good strong personalities and that makes for great television -
KRESSLEY: I know.
FUENTES: Although I would like to see - I mean, listen, I`m from Jersey, and I was able to de-snookinize myself.
KRESSLEY: Right, right.
BEHAR: De-snookinize, I like that word.
FUENTES: Maybe we should have a show about that.
BEHAR: They highlight the worst of Jersey.
KRESSLEY: Well you know I`m from Pennsylvania which is Jersey adjacent. The Amish are just not that exciting. I mean, let`s bale some hay. It is much more funny to watch Jersey, you know, Snooki get tanked and licked - Situation`s abs. OK.
LANCASTER: I think there`s something so genuine and about Jersey. We`re so tired of watching reality TV where every moment is scripted. If you watch "JERSEY SHORE" like I did, big fan, there was a moment where they were all sitting on the coach, eating sausage and pepper sandwiches and laughing as Paula Deen mocked the situation on the phone. And I`m like this is a genuine and perfect moment. And I loved it. It reminded me of college.
KRESSLEY: Sign me up, who needs the movies.
BEHAR: So you are a fan of the show.
LANCASTER: Absolutely, a huge fan of the show.
BEHAR: You don`t think it makes Italians look stupid?
LANCASTER: You know what, I`m Italian. I don`t feel stupid for having - well OK, I feel stupid for having watch it -
KRESSLEY: Right.
LANCASTER: But I don`t feel stupid having them, you know, in my family tree.
FUENTES: I think it makes the whole human race look stupid actually.
KRESSLEY: Right, right, and that`s the thing. When I did "QUEER EYE," they said, oh you make gay people look bad, so stereotypical. I think the thing to remember on reality TV they are not representing the Italian-American community as a whole.
BEHAR: That`s for sure.
KRESSLEY: They are representing themselves, you know, and you interest to take that to heart when you`re watching. They are just being themselves.
BEHAR: There are people in the country who never met Italians, only see television Italians and they call -
KRESSLEY: Right.
BEHAR: Them I-talians and so you have to sort of say something about that. I always do.
KRESSLEY: Yes, that`s why we need to send the cast of "JERSEY SHORE" to Iowa immediately.
BEHAR: You had a good show. -
KRESSLEY: Yes, thank you.
BEHAR: "QUEER EYE" was one of the more better reality shows.
FUENTES: A blue chip reality show.
KRESSLEY: Thank you, thank you.
BEHAR: Blue chip means good -
KRESSLEY: Thank you, thank you.
BEHAR: But these shows they are sort of mindless entertainment, right? That`s why people like them and to watch something like "THE GOOD WIFE" requires concentrating, is that the problem with a good show like that?
LANCASTER: Well, I think people are so stressed out with their lives right now, with the economy, the way everything is going, they want something mindless. Because when you watch reality Tv, not the blue chip ones, you feel better about yourself. My whole writing career got started after I got laid off post-September 11 and I remember watching "THE PARIS HILTON SHOW" and her having a conversation with Nicole Richie where she talked about Walmart being the place that sold walls and I said I`m a genius, I feel great about myself having watched this.
BEHAR: There`s rumors they will have a Russian-American version of this show in Brighton Beach, "SHLOMO AND THE AGGRAVATION" we are thinking.
KRESSLEY: Wow, sign me up.
BEHAR: OK let`s do a last story. Lindsay Lohan denies reports that she has a 36-year-old cougar lesbian lover. Since when does being 36 years old mean that you`re a cougar. That must make me a saber tooth tiger.
KRESSLEY: Something, something.
BEHAR: Thirty six is not a cougar.
KRESSLEY: No. Whenever I hear Lindsay Lohan has a cougar girlfriend, I have a vision of one of those old like Omaha like wild kingdom movies of the cougar eating her prey and it`s just like grossing me out. I can`t.
FUENTES: I don`t think it would be a story if she were seeing a man.
KRESSLEY: Totally.
FUENTES: It`s a non-story and people are blowing it out of proportion trying to make news out of it -
BEHAR: Right.
FUENTES: Because it`s a lesbian relationship.
KRESSLEY: Right.
FUENTES: But I think we`re over that already. It`s not shocking, it`s not surprising, and it`s really a non-story.
LANCASTER: Listen she needs someone to parent her. When Britney Spears says, you know what, I look good compared to her, we have a problem.
BEHAR: Yes. The other thing about her is that she`s stuck in Cannes at the moment.
KRESSLEY: Right.
BEHAR: Is that how you say it, Cannes or Cannes? I can`t figure it out.
KRESSLEY: I never know.
BEHAR: I can`t figure it out -
KRESSLEY: So can`t I.
BEHAR: She`s supposed to come home for a mandatory court hearing -
KRESSLEY: Right.
BEHAR: And she can`t come home because someone stole her passport. Now who is going to use her passport besides Nick Nolte?
KRESSLEY: Right.
BEHAR: I mean, come on. Who is going to use it? She`s very famous, is she not?
KRESSLEY: Well, yes, makes you wonder if she just can`t find it. Maybe on purpose because she has this hearing coming up I think tomorrow.
LANCASTER: we should check on Ebay. It`s probably there.
BEHAR: She`s got a court hearing tomorrow. She`s supposed to go to the French embassy to see if they can give her a new passport.
KRESSLEY: New passport.
BEHAR: Well, we wish her luck, don`t we, Jen?
LANCASTER: We do wish her luck.
BEHAR: We wish them all luck. They are all wonderful people so thanks everyone.
KRESSLEY: Thank you.
BEHAR: And Carson, you`ll be back with me in a little while.
KRESSLEY: OK.
BEHAR: Up next, the star of "THE TUDORS" drops the "n" bomb and now he`s in rehab. I`ll have the latest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: A lot of people hurl when they are drunk, but not quite like Jonathan Rhys-Meyer. He hurled racial epithets in the United Airlines lounge. So now he`s heading back to rehab. To talk about this with me are Georgetown University professor in Sociology and author "Can You Hear Me Now," Michael Eric Dyson and media analyst and author of "What Were They thinking?" Steve Adubato, welcome to the show, guys. Let me ask both of you. He`s going into rehab now.
STEVE ADUBATO, MEDIA ANALYST: Yes.
BEHAR: Is that a way of him saying I have an addiction, leave me alone, you know. You know, I used the "n" word but I can`t control myself.
ADUBATO: Yes, before Michael jumps in, I have to tell you Joy -
BEHAR: Yes.
ADUBATO: I`m not sure exactly what the rehab is for using the "n" word, I -- maybe it`s a more customized rehab. But the question is, is it anger management, is it saying things that are stupid and idiotic and offensive? You know I don`t know what it is but is seems to be the first move that people in high visibility positions go for to say, hey listen, not only mea culpa but I am going to do something about it. I just don`t know how you do it unless you define what the problem is. And I don`t know what the problem is. The guy could be nuts, racist. Who knows.
BEHAR: Yes, Michael, is it enough? Doesn`t he -- he hasn`t apologized publicly. Shouldn`t he do that first?
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Yes, I think so, and I agree with Steve absolute. The question is unless there`s a racial rehab we haven`t heard about, joining the local NAACP during man hours on the side to help some poor person of color. The reality, yes, like you said when you hurl -- when you drunk you hurl -- when you hurl these epithets, then I think Steve is right. You`ve got a deeper problem here. Is it that you have racial animus or hostility.
BEHAR: Yes.
DYSON: Or unconscious bias towards somebody else? And I think it is the first move to say, look, it`s a mea culpa, I`m trying to do something about it. But also hands off and feel a little empathy and sympathy for me as well, which is kind of ironic because you victimized somebody else. So I think the first move here is to say, hey, I`m sorry, I didn`t mean it.
BEHAR: Right, I mean I don`t care how plastered I would be. I don`t think I could ever say that word -
ADUBATO: You know Joy.
BEHAR: So I don`t take it as an excuse. What`s his name, Mel Gibson, what`s his name, Mel Gibson.
ADUBATO: Yes.
BEHAR: He had anti-Semitic slurs and he was saying that he was drunk also.
ADUBATO: Yes.
BEHAR: So what, you`re drunk. It`s in there some place.
ADUBATO: Here`s the thing.
BEHAR: Yes.
ADUBATO: I struggle with this question because when I get drunk, my wife tells me I act like an idiot.
BEHAR: Right.
ADUBATO: What is normal for a lot of guys, but here`s the point.
BEHAR: Yes.
ADUBATO: You can act like an idiot, be somewhat offensive and say inappropriate things, but I can`t figure out how the mind works when you`re drunk when you start saying horrible things about women. I hate women. Where is that coming from? Blacks are this and you don`t even use the word blacks or Italians, this or that. I don`t know where that comes from and I don`t know what the excuse for that real is.
BEHAR: Deep down you`re a bigot, right?
ADUBATO: The real stuff comes out when you`re loaded.
BEHAR: What about John Mayer, he also used it in an interview.
ADUBATO: And he wasn`t drunk.
BEHAR: His thing is I come on very strong. That`s why black people love me. Someone asked me the other day what does it feel like now to have a hood pass, and by the way it`s sort of a contradiction in terms because if you really had a hood pass you could call it an "n" pass. Does what he say have a different impact than calling someone the "n" word, Michael?
DYSON: Well, no, I think it was equally ridiculous. I think first of all, even more insulting what he said his penis was a white supremacist too, because it steered away from black women and only to white women. And Black people didn`t love you because you came on strong, John, we love you because guess what, you`re a singer.
ADUBATO: That`s right.
DYSON: So we love the singing, we didn`t love your bravado. Here you were trying to be faux cool, I guess, and I think that, you know that faux, faux, you know that faux authenticity, fauxthenticity of trying to be hood and pass and so on, no, what we want is the music, yes, if you are down and your demeanor is cool but what it shows to me, disturbingly enough, is that even though you are cool with the hood pass, just beneath the you`re no different than Jonathan Ryhs-Meyers because both of you have some bigoted reserve to be tapped into and it needs to be aired out and we need to deal with it.
BEHAR: Right.
ADUBATO: But Michael let me jump in here and say this, it seems to me with John Mayer, and I`m a fan with his music, and it does hit me now Joy. I like the guy`s music, but it does come back to the asinine things he said. A, he was trying to be a little too cool. The other thing is this. He`s called a crossover artist. Here`s my view of it. If Jay-Z or someone else who really is a terrific performer who happens to be Black says listen, the guy is an idiot, said something really offensive, but I`m going to give him a pass -
BEHAR: Yes.
ADUBATO: I don`t care what kind of pass and they perform with him and they do well, it doesn`t go away but a lot of people say, all right, give him a little bit of a pass. My point is I don`t know if he gets that chance to perform with a prominent African-American performer because I`ve got to tell you it`s so ridiculously offensive I can`t imagine what he was thinking.
BEHAR: Does anybody really get a pass? I mean --
ADUBATO: Using the "n" word -
BEHAR: Using the "n" -
ADUBATO: Absolutely not.
BEHAR: Or use Anti-Semitic slurs.
ADUBATO: Those are two different things -
BEHAR: Dog Chapman, for example, has apologized profusely. Michael was that enough for him to do it?
DYSON: For who, for who to do it?
BEHAR: Dog Chapman, Dog, the Dog, The Bounty Hunter.
DYSON: Oh right, right, right, right. Right, the Dog. yes.
BEHAR: He apologized profusely. Yes, he used the word also.
DYSON: Oh he sure did, and here`s my point. The thing is that beyond the apology, yes, first of all, I think it`s necessary to apologize and I think people are pretty gracious, they go all right. But the thing is beyond that lets dig into, you know, the reasons beneath why you did that, the surface beneath it, and I think there`s a great temptation in this culture to avoid the real issue here. It`s not these extraordinary figures who come out with the "n" word. First of all, if John Mayer really had a hood pass, a cool white guy knows the first thing I don`t do is use the "n" word.
BEHAR: Right.
DYSON: If you have a hood pass, that`s the first thing you learn -
BEHAR: That`s right.
DYSON: Secondly, with Doug, Dog Chapman, the thing is, yeah, you messed up, you admit you messed up but at the same time we confront the bigger bigotry, not just this one episode.
BEHAR: OK, thank you very much, guys, thank you for that. We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRESSLEY: Ready for a boy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m ready for a boy.
KRESSLEY: OK. Give it up for Michael. Oh my god. Hot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Carson Kressley is an Emmy winning TV star, celebrity stylist, author, fashion designer and host of ABC`S "TRUE BEAUTY" and for the next few minutes, I own him. Carson, welcome back to the show.
KRESSLEY: Thank you.
BEHAR: OK now, "TRUE BEAUTY," the love child of Ashton Kutcher and Tyra Banks.
KRESSLEY: Yes.
BEHAR: In what way is that?
KRESSLEY: Not literally.
BEHAR: Yes.
KRESSLEY: That would be big drama. It is basically they`re two producers in Hollywood. They both do a lot of TV shows they come up with and create and this was one of their brain children. And basically it has elements of "NEXT TOP MODEL" from Tyra, looking for the beautiful person and then we kind of do a little Punked moment, Ashton`s contribution where the contestants think they`re being judged only on their looks, when actually we`re judging to see if they`re true beauties. We do that with hidden camera tricks.
BEHAR: Oh, the inner beauty.
KRESSLEY: Yes the inner beauty. They don`t know we`re doing that.
BEHAR: Does anyone care about the inner beauty?
KRESSLEY: Well, I do, Joy.
BEHAR: I mean really, let`s get real. No one cares about the inner beauty on television.
KRESSLEY: I think there are so many shows out there that say you`re the prettiest, you`re the skinniest, here`s the 100 grand, you win the contest. And this show, I think really, you know I think Tyra`s real mission with it is too was, to show people, you know, inner beauty does matter, it is important and we`re going to have a reality out there that has a somewhat of a positive message the inside counts too.
BEHAR: So what`s going to happen if you get a homely girl that has inner beauty.
KRESSLEY: Well here`s the trick they`re all gorgeous on the outside and selected five guys, all girls, all really beautiful.
BEHAR: They`re all gorgeous on the outside.
KRESSLEY: We`re trying to see who`s beautiful on the inside. Our winner truly is.
BEHAR: So that means the other ones who are beautiful on the outside have no inner beauty?
KRESSLEY: Some of them -- it was hard. Some of them you think, wow, she`s so gorgeous and after two episodes you`re like, wow, she looks like a bird caught in an oil spill on the inside.
BEHAR: I see. OK so Howard Stern`s wife, who is a former model --
KRESSLEY: Yes Beth Stern.
BEHAR: Beth Strosky or something is on the air --
KRESSLEY: Beth Strosky Stern is a co-judge with me.
BEHAR: Do you think Howard has inner beauty?
KRESSLEY: You know what`s really interesting, I`ve been on his show a couple times. Completely different person than you`re with him.
BEHAR: So he has inner beauty off the air but on the air not necessarily.
KRESSLEY: I think you`ve got it.
BEHAR: Well you know that doesn`t matter. It`s what you project to the world that counts.
KRESSLEY: Well, I think --
BEHAR: You need the inner beauty when you`re on the radio or television.
KRESSLEY: when you`re on the radio you don`t have to look good at all. You can sit there and be naked and ugly and do your own show.
BEHAR: You`re too cute. You have a play you`re doing.
KRESSLEY: I`m not really an actor. I prescribe to the Shatner theory of entertainment. Do absolutely everything. If they offer you a job just say yes.
BEHAR: That`s right.
KRESSLEY: I`ve come into the entertainment industry in a weird kind of trajectories. Any time anyone says hey, do you want to do a movie, do a guest star on this show, do you want to do a play? I just said, yes, sounds like fun.
BEHAR: But did you read "Newsweek" where there was this brouhaha about straight actors, gay actors can`t play straight? Are you plays gay or straight?
KRESSLEY: You know what I don`t know. I`m sexually confused in this play. It`s called "Drowsy Chaperon." I play a you obsessed with music.
BEHAR: I know the "Drowsy Chaperon" that was on Broadway.
KRESSLEY: Yes that was on Broadway.
BEHAR: I love that show.
KRESSLEY: I`m the man in the chair.
BEHAR: That show was fabulous. Congratulations.
KRESSLEY: Thank you, thank you.
BEHAR: And thank you for joining me tonight.
KRESSLEY: It was my pleasure.
BEHAR: Carson "True Beauty" premieres May 31st at 10:00 p.m. on ABC. Good night everybody.
END
