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Joy Behar Page

Jesse James` Confession; Gays in the Military; Too Fat for Hooters

Aired May 25, 2010 - 21:00   ET


JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Jesse James is hoping his new interview will restore his image and that people will once again see him as a sloppy, loud, sleeveless, tattooed biker.

Then, Sarah Ferguson gets only $21,000 a year in alimony. What divorce lawyer got her that rotten deal? She should have called me. I have Gloria Allred on speed dial.

And has a deal been reached to allow gays to serve in the military and does the guild go one step further and allow straights to serve in the musical theater?

All that starts right now.

Jesse James is finally speaking out. Sandra Bullock`s cheating husband gave "Nightline`s" Vicki Mabrey an exclusive interview which airs tonight on ABC.


JESSE JAMES, SANDRA BULLOCK`S ESTRANGED HUSBAND: Told her basically everything, you know, that I had affairs outside of our marriage.

VICKI MABREY, CORRESPONDENT, ABC NEWS NIGHTLINE: Did she have any idea any of this was going on or did this hit her like a ton of bricks?

JAMES: I think she`s had her suspicions, you know, in the past. But, you know, I lied and lied my way out of it. You know, I lied to everyone about everything, even to myself.


BEHAR: With me now is Vicki Mabrey, "Nightline" correspondent for ABC News. You know, Vicki, why is he opening up now?

MABREY: He says, you know, from the very beginning he issued a written statement that basically he fell on his sword. He said, "I was unfaithful to my wife and I deserve everything bad that`s coming to me because of this."

And then it snowballed. Next thing he knew he was a Nazi, racist, homophobe, everything you can name. He says he wants to speak out to set the record straight about that.

BEHAR: Does he have a book or reality show coming up or something?

MABREY: Oddly enough, he`s got a show coming out where he was in a kibbutz in Israel learning to be a blacksmith that he had shot before any of this happened.

BEHAR: So there`s Jews and black smith. Get it? Let`s listen to him talk about getting caught.


JAMES: Well, I never in a million years -- the last person I would ever want to hurt or harm is her or the kids. I spent my whole life with the kids and with her trying to protect her, you know, and protect her from everything. But the most hurt she`s ever been caused is by the person that wanted to protect her.

It`s really -- it`s terrible and she`s going to be hurt for a long time. You know -- I don`t know. It`s hard for me to talk about it a little bit because, you know, I still really love her and care about her.

I knew I would get caught eventually. I think I wanted to get caught, you know. I think it`s -- I don`t think I know for a fact now what it was. I mean, it was me trying to self sabotage my life.


BEHAR: Why would he want to get caught?

MABREY: He says that he was basically out of control, that, bottom line, he had a hard scrabble life. That everything he`s gotten he`s worked for, he clawed his way to it. Somewhere in the back of his head, it`s like, this is too good to be true, this is not going to last.

BEHAR: He didn`t deserve it.

MABREY: She`s going to -- she`s going to find out who you are. That you`re not worthy; she`s going to leave you so just blow it up. This is what he`s thinking in his head.

BEHAR: I see. Low self-esteem.

MABREY: Low self-esteem is what he would say.

BEHAR: I`m still fascinated by the fact that she`s attracted to the guy. I don`t know what she saw in him.

MABREY: Well, you know what? When I first went out and interviewed him six years ago for a piece on "60 Minutes". I didn`t know who he was. I had this preconceived notion after seeing pictures of him. He`s actually much more interesting, much more thoughtful than you would think if you judge somebody, as he says if you judge a book by his cover.

He says, "I`m a big, tattooed white guy, so anything bad people say about me, everybody believes it."

BEHAR: I see. But you know, he says that he still loves her. This is destructive to the relationship. How is it that men or some men can disassociate themselves from feeling love and also wanting to destroy it at the same time? It`s just --

MABREY: You know, that`s probably one of the reasons he was in rehab was to try to figure that out. Everybody jumped to the conclusion that it`s got to be sex addiction but he says it was much more complex than that. He went for a lot of reasons and it`s not just sex addiction.

BEHAR: But you know when you have issues -- psychological issues like that, why would you go to rehab? Go to a shrink like everybody else. What are you in rehab for? What are you rehabbing?

MABREY: He said with all the paparazzi around that was -- he said, "I felt that rage building up in me that I haven`t felt like in years," and he said, "I just realized I have to get a grip. I need help." He said he jumped on a motorcycle and rode off to Sierra, Tucson.

BEHAR: He should jump on a motorcycle and ride to a drugstore and get some Prozac.

MABREY: Are you prescribing, Dr. Joy? Give me the scrip, I`ll mail it out there.

BEHAR: Tell him I said that, ok?

Now he brought up the infamous Nazi photo. Watch this.


JAMES: I think out of anything, this is why I`m doing this interview the most. Because, you know, dealing with losing my marriage and my son and embarrassing everyone and decimating my life, but to be called a racist on top of that is -- it like -- it makes me really sad seeing the photo and the way I look.

I don`t even remember taking the photo. But it was just -- I can tell by the look on my face it was a joke. That was funny then probably for a minute. But then looking at it in the context of now and my life, it`s not funny.


BEHAR: No, it`s not that funny.

MABREY: No and I pressed him on that. And I said, you know doing a Nazi salute is really not funny for a lot of people, of course not.

But he says, you know, the way -- He said, "The way I look in the picture I was obviously making fun of something." And he has a lot of World War II memorabilia and he happens to have this SS hat there.

BEHAR: He just had it lying around?

MABREY: Well, apparently his father and his father`s friends were antique dealers and had a lot -- and so they had a lot of that stuff. And he has World War II motorcycles and bicycles and all kinds of stuff from that era.

BEHAR: All right. Well, let`s assume that he`s not being racist and he was fooling around and he`s just like a big kid acting stupid, right? Is it just a coincidence then that TMZ had photos of his mistress Michelle "Bombshell" McGee also in Nazi garb? I mean what`s up with that?

MABREY: Just a coincidence, I guess.

BEHAR: That is some coincidence.

MABREY: Some coincidence.

BEHAR: So, it`s like, you know, yes -- there is one thing -- there is a different between being interested in antiques and admiring the behavior of the Nazis, let`s say, or the Klan or something. Which is it with him?

MABREY: I think it`s neither one of those with him. I don`t know but it`s just my feeling and I know Whoopi was saying that to you, too. I don`t think he`s a racist.

I mean look at that, they were adopting a black child. I asked him why -- specifically why a black child? Why New Orleans, why a black child? He said, the color didn`t matter to me. All we wanted was the baby that needed us the most. He called him the little dude and says he misses him so much.


MABREY: The interesting thing is he never brought that up. I think I would have been one to say, but look, I`m adopting a black child, how could I be a racist. He didn`t bring that up at all. I had to press him. Why? Why this child? Why a black child? He didn`t say anything about it at all.

BEHAR: Ok. Let`s listen to him talk about the child he adopted with Sandra Bullock.


MABREY: Specifically why a black child?

JAMES: I didn`t care. Didn`t care what color he was. My only -- my only prerequisite for adopting a baby, I want the baby that needs us the most.

MABREY: How did you feel when you saw the cover of people magazine and it`s all about Sandra adopts Louis and he`s going to have her name and not yours?

JAMES: It made me sad. But I realize why things have to be done in a certain way.

MABREY: What was it like being at home, being a family with him?

JAMES: To see her in the role of mother is like one of the most amazing things I have ever seen. I mean, she`s like a fish to water. As soon as she put that baby in her hands it was automatic and amazing.


BEHAR: So do you think he`ll have a relationship with this child?

MABREY: I asked him if he would and he said he`s definitely going to be in Louis`s life. I said, "Will your children still be in Sandra`s life?" And he said, yes, absolutely.

He said, "She`s 100 percent divorcing me, but I hope that we still have a relationship because we want these children in our lives."

BEHAR: So she`s 100 percent divorcing him. So there is no --

MABREY: 100 percent divorcing him, he said.

BEHAR: There is no way she`s taking him back.

MABREY: I said, "Did you go to rehab trying to get her back? Are you doing the interview to get her back?" He said no. "100 percent she is divorcing me. That`s definitely happening, but we still want to have a relationship so we can co-parent these children."

BEHAR: Even the one that Sandra basically was attached to --

MABREY: Sunny, yes. He said -- in fact -- when he went to rehab he called and told her, "I`m going to rehab. Would you take care of Sunny?" And he told me that she said, "Ok, I will, and I`m proud of you." I don`t know what that means.

BEHAR: I don`t know either.

MABREY: I said, "Did she tell you that you needed help?" He said, "Well, people have been telling me that for years."

BEHAR: Do you feel that he has a sense of all the -- what he`s lost?

MABREY: He knows. I think he knows exactly.

BEHAR: He gets it now?

MABREY: I think he knows that he lost the best thing that ever happened to him.

BEHAR: I mean really. You have Sandra Bullock --

MABREY: I know.

BEHAR: -- and you just blow it.

MABREY: America`s sweetheart, you know. Women want to be her best friend.


MABREY: And men adore her.

BEHAR: A smart girl, a beautiful girl, a talented girl; someone who`s loving to your children and this is what you do. I don`t think she should forgive him yet.

MABREY: Yes, you think she should?

BEHAR: Well, eventually she`ll move on and say, so what, who cares? But right now --

MABREY: And she was very gracious about him in "People" magazine. She really -- she said, I know my truth. I know Jesse`s truth. She said our relationship has changed. It`s evolving, it`s bitter sweet. She sounded very sad, more sad than angry. But that`s just me being a pop psychologist.

BEHAR: Well, because -- that`s because she is a good girl. Sandra -- she`s a good girl.

MABREY: And that`s exactly, he sounds the same way. He said, I want to make sure that people know this is not Jesse fights back against Sandy. He said, "100 percent whatever she wants to dish out to me is what I deserve."

BEHAR: Does he -- does he know about the public humiliation that he caused her?


BEHAR: He does, because that`s really one of the worst parts of it.

MABREY: Oh, that is, yes, of course.


MABREY: It`s the worst part.

BEHAR: Thanks Vicki. Catch Vicki Mabrey`s full interview with Jesse James on ABC`s "Nightline" tonight at 11:35.

We`ll be back in a minute -- riveting stuff. I like it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, a waitress for Hooters sues the restaurant chain for discrimination after being suspended because of her weight.

And caught in the middle of a Royal scandal, Sarah Ferguson, the Duchess of York is now considering a move to the United States permanently.

Now back to Joy.

BEHAR: My gay friends can find the best restaurants, the best hotels and the best sales. I guarantee you they can find Osama bin Laden and dress him a lot better when they do. So isn`t it time to repeal "don`t ask, don`t tell"?

Here to talk about this is Lieutenant Dan Choi, a West Point graduate, gay Iraq veteran and nationally recognized advocate for the repeal of "don`t ask, don`t tell." Welcome to the show, Dan.


BEHAR: My pleasure.

Now, Obama endorsed a "don`t ask, don`t tell" compromise between lawmakers and the Defense Department. Does this mean that gays and lesbians will now be able to serve openly in the military?

CHOI: You would think that the President would want that to happen. You would think that that`s the case, but it`s not. And anybody can be fired right now just for telling the truth about themselves. The law is still on the books.

And Joy, the use of the word "compromise", I think, is a little bit too generous. A compromise assumes that both sides have done something or given something. We all know that this is not a compromise.

It`s a delay, what the president has done, saying that Congress should repeal "don`t ask, don`t tell" in the law and it`ll be a long time before the President and the Pentagon do anything to enact any kind of nondiscrimination.

BEHAR: I see.

CHOI: So we know that there is -- right. There are two things that have to happen to fully repeal "don`t ask, don`t tell". The President is asking for the first to happen and is doing absolutely nothing for the second.

BEHAR: Can`t he do something with just the stroke of a pen? Can he freeze the "don`t ask, don`t tell" --

CHOI: That`s right.

BEHAR: Why doesn`t he do that?

CHOI: That`s absolutely correct.

BEHAR: Who is he protecting?

CHOI: He is the commander-in-chief --


CHOI: -- he is the commander-in-chief and he`s firing soldiers just for telling the truth. He has executive order authorities but he also could do something else. He can include into the defense authorization -- which is essentially his budget -- and tell Congress to repeal "don`t ask, don`t tell" as a law. But he has refused to do that as well.

And there`s a lot of things that he still has to do. When --

BEHAR: Why? Why is he holding it up? Why do you think personally -- I mean, he seems like an open-minded guy. You know he`s not a homophobe. What is his problem with this?

CHOI: Well, I think a lot of people -- and this is the most devastating thing about the "don`t ask, don`t tell" repeal process is that people are putting their political agendas before the needs of the soldiers and the rights of soldiers to access their own integrity.

So you have right now soldiers who cannot tell the truth about themselves or the people that they love.

BEHAR: Right.

CHOI: And you have politicians either in the White House or in Congress that are putting their own careers above the careers of those who are serving their country. And I think that`s absolutely ridiculous and anti-American.

BEHAR: Definitely. Now, you decided to come out last year on the "Rachel Maddow" show. Why not my show?

CHOI: Well, I`m -- I have to point out that even today with all this, it`s still illegal for me to say, "Joy, I am gay." So, there, I broke the law on your show, too.


CHOI: And --

BEHAR: Why don`t you come on --

CHOI: But it`s --

BEHAR: Why don`t you come on my show and get married, Dan?

CHOI: All right. Not to you.

BEHAR: No, not to me.

CHOI: If I was for the other side --

BEHAR: Duh --

CHOI: -- I would.

But Joy, I think what this is -- the law essentially tells people that they are not allowed to love who they -- who love -- to love the people that are their number one supporters in the entire world.

For me, when I came out on TV more than a year ago I did it because I finally fell in love with somebody. And I -- I understood commitment and maturity, growth and sacrifice all in the context of intimacy and love.

And finally understanding what everybody`s talking about in the romance novels -- not that I read a lot of romance novels --


CHOI: -- but in the movies and in the songs and the poems. I finally understood that. But even more important, I understood what my soldiers were going through when they said that they fall in love or they`re going through a break-up.

BEHAR: Of course.

CHOI: And that made me a better leader, it made me a better soldier and it made me a better person.

BEHAR: It`s a human need that`s being denied and distorted, frankly. You know, I have to ask you something.

CHOI: That`s right.

BEHAR: What are the other soldiers -- the straight guys in the Army and the military -- do they really care about this, do you think? Does it inhibit them? Do they feel like they don`t want to be in the shower -- what is the problem there? What is it?

CHOI: It`s funny that you bring that up. There`s so many people that make so much of these terms -- of unit cohesion and, in fact, the Pentagon is studying whether discrimination is in keeping with American values and military values and they`re taking this long to consider some of those red herrings that when in my personal experience, I go back to my unit, I`m still serving in the military.

And you know what the soldiers want to hear. You know what they demand from their leaders and their officers.

BEHAR: And what do you want -- what do you say to that? What do you -- what do they want to hear?

CHOI: They want their leaders to be honest. And they want everybody to fall in to the same and commit themselves, uncompromisingly to the same values -- integrity, honor, courage. And there is no reason why anybody should compromise those sacred foundations of military service.

BEHAR: Absolutely right. Ok.

Thank you very much, Lieutenant, for joining me. And remember the offer. You can get married on my show.

CHOI: Joy, it`s a pleasure.

BEHAR: All right. We`ll be back in just a minute.


BEHAR: A Hooters waitress was told she had to lose weight to keep her job. Even though she`s 5`8 and weighs 132 pounds. Now a lot of Hooters` waitresses might have simply removed their implants and gone back to work but Cassandra Smith is suing. Here to discuss further is the Hooters waitress, Cassandra Smith. Welcome Cassie.


BEHAR: I`m ok. You had a meeting with Hooters managements. Tell me what they said to you.

SMITH: Two of my managers in the office during my evaluation and two women on a conference call line from Atlanta. They told me that I had 30 days to improve the way my uniform fit me. They would give me a free gym membership. And if I didn`t improve, I would be separated from the company.

BEHAR: Well, you`re 5`8, 132 pounds and you wear an extra small Hooters uniform. Did they tell you what size or weight they wanted you to be?

SMITH: No, they did not.

BEHAR: They did not. So they just said that you`re overweight. And what did they want you to lose?

SMITH: They didn`t say.

BEHAR: They didn`t say. So what exactly were their words?

SMITH: It was more or less you have to improve the criteria that you`re weak in. It was my tank top and short size fitting and that`s where it said I was weak in. So I had 30 days to improve that or else I would be separated from the company.

BEHAR: I don`t get it. I mean you were extra small already. Did they want you to shop in the toddler section of Macy`s? I mean how much smaller -- there is no smaller size than an extra small as far as I can tell.

SMITH: Right.

BEHAR: Ok. Now when you were hired you were told you had to maintain a certain weight. Did they tell you that when you were hired? Right.

SMITH: It was -- yes, maintaining my image which includes weight.

BEHAR: So they didn`t give you a number. They just told -- they just maintained -- it`s sort of vague in the way they are speaking to you, it sounds like.

SMITH: Yes. Because they really can`t say the word weight so they take a picture when you`re hired and they say, this is the image we hired you at. This is the image we like you at. If you change it then you can be further counseled about it.

BEHAR: Between us, how much did you gain from that moment to the time they fired you?

SMITH: I haven`t gained any weight.

BEHAR: What is it? An optical illusion that they are creating in their minds or what?

SMITH: I guess more like I think that maybe -- I have been there two years. Maybe they just decided to change the image to a smaller type of girl.

BEHAR: So you decided to sue them. Have you discussed this with a lawyer? Tell me about suing. What are you planning?

SMITH: Mark Bernstein and Richard Bernstein are my lawyers.

BEHAR: And what are they advising you? What are they saying? Can you tell me any of it?

SMITH: I mean, that`s mostly what they can discuss with you. They have a lawsuit filed as of yesterday.

BEHAR: Now Hooters of America -- this is what they said -- they have yet to see the lawsuit and they issued a statement that said this "No employee in Michigan has been counseled about their weight," they said. "However, our practice of upholding an image standard based on appearance, attitude and fitness for Hooters girls is both legal and fair. It is not unlike the standard used by the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders or the Radio City Music Hall Rockettes. What do you say to that?

SMITH: First of all, I know of more than just me and many other girls that have been counseled about their weight, but they don`t use the word weight, so that`s probably what they mean by that. A very good friend of mine was actually fired about a year ago for not continuing up with her 30- day probation.

BEHAR: Yes. But they`re comparing you to the Dallas Cowboy Girls and the Rockettes who move around. You`re just walking around with wings and beer. I mean how much -- really it`s kind of crazy.

Listen, good luck to you, darling. Ok?

SMITH: Thank you so much.



BEHAR: After being caught in a scandal trying to sell access to Prince Andrew for $750,000, Sarah Ferguson, the Duchess of York, is reportedly threatening to flee England for the U.S. let`s hope Arizona isn`t the first state on her wish list. With me to discuss this and more are Bonnie Fuller, president and editor and chief of, the countess Luann De Lesseps, co-star of "THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF NEW YORK" and Eloise Parker, features editor for "OK" magazine. Welcome to the show ladies.

Thank you.

BEHAR: Bonnie, we`ve always liked Fergie in the U.S., so do you think this is a good move for her?

BONNIE FULLER, PRESIDENT, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: Absolutely. I think it`s time for her to move to the U.S. and get away from the vicious press in England. I mean from the moment that she started going out with Prince Andrew to marrying him they have done nothing but attack her. Now listen, she`s has brought, she has clearly brought this latest scandal -

BEHAR: More aggravation.

FULLER: Yes on herself, but you know, I think it is the mark of a woman who`s been beaten down and broken and is desperate.

BEHAR: Yes. She`s been beaten down and broken by --

FULLER: By the press and also by the royal family. I mean, the royal family has not treated its daughters-in-law well.

BEHAR: No, Elizabeth hates all of them. She`s nasty to all of them, right?

COUNTESS LUANN DE LESSEPS, CO-STAR, "THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF NEW YORK": They were more generous with Di than they have been with Fergie.

BEHAR: really?

LESSEPS: Well, yes. Di has gotten more money out of the royal family -- or did get more money.

BEHAR: Di got millions.

LESSEPS: And Fergie never saw that. She was seeing something like 20 grand.


LESSEPS: Well I have no idea. All I can say is that money can buy you contacts but it can`t integrity. And that`s why I wrote the song "Money Can`t Buy You Class".

BEHAR: I can`t believe you shamelessly plugged in the middle of this conversation.

LESSEPS: I think it`s a good point. Money can buy you contacts but it cannot integrity. It`s true.

BEHAR: I love it. Does somebody know in this group why Princess Diana got all that money? Is it because she didn`t have Raul Felder or is it because she has the heirs to the throne?

ELOISE PARKER, FEAUTRES EDITOR, OK! MAGAZINE: You have to remember Princess Diana was married to the heir of the British throne. Her sons second and third in line. Now, Fergie -- Prince Andrew is fourth in the line to the throne. Her daughters are fifth and sixth.

BEHAR: Right.

PARKER: She`s kind of moving more into the minor royal territory. So Diana was always more important in royal terms than Sarah Ferguson.

BEHAR: And her sons, it was all about the boys.

FULLER: And also, but wasn`t it also that Diana got smart? I mean she became very astute with how to deal with the family through her problems with her relationships. And she hired a very clever lawyer who was strong and she bargained. And she did have, as you say, she had more weight behind her. Apparently Fergie was trying to stay in good stead with her monster-in-law.

BEHAR: Her monster-in-law.

FULLER: And so she only went for the 20,000 pounds. That`s a ridiculous settlement.

BEHAR: I don`t understand it.

LESSEPS: Obviously she was desperate. You know, she was drinking during the video.

BEHAR: Oh the video.

LESSEPS: She looked really desperate. And she didn`t even ask who this person was. She didn`t even know who this person was. She didn`t have any kind of information.

BEHAR: Uh-huh.

LESSEPS: So it shows me she was desperate. She also had this confidence about her that she said that Edward was willing to play - that Prince Edward was willing to play.

BEHAR: Well, she --

LESSEPS: For me, it doesn`t seem she went in there alone. It seems to me that somehow they were in cahoots.

BEHAR: Well not according to what she says, let`s play that. She says that Andrew was not involved in Fergie`s deal making. And in the video she keeps him out of it. Take a look at this.


SARAH FERGUSON: He never does accept a penny for anything.


FERGUSON: No, no. He does not.


FERGUSON: He does not and will not and he is completely whiter than white.



BEHAR: I mean, they live in the same house. Doesn`t her foot -- don`t her footmen speak to his footmen? I mean, they are in the next room. They must know something is going on.

LESSEPS: She says they are the best friends -- divorced friends. They live together. I can`t believe that Andrew knew nothing about it. I just can`t believe it.

FULLER: I agree with you. I think even if he didn`t want to know, I think he knew that she was having to take care of business. He`s very well, well aware of her financial straits. That`s why he has her live with him.

BEHAR: So why doesn`t he just give her money?

LESSEPS: And I wonder - well maybe he doesn`t have the money.

BEHAR: Come on, come on.

LESSEPS: Does he have money? He has a job working in finance for the UK. I don`t know exactly what he`s doing. But I don`t know how much money he`s making but if he`s allotting her $20,000 or so a year, that`s based on his income, I suppose. It doesn`t sound to me like he`s making a lot of money or the purse strings of the queen --

BEHAR: I don`t buy it. I don`t buy it. I don`t buy it. They`re one of the richest families in the world.

LESSEPS: Of course they`re the richest.

BEHAR: Eloise, come on, help me out here.

PARKER: Even married royal couples are often living virtually separate lives. So divorced royal couples, even though they are living under the same roof, they`re travelling so much, I think there`s a very good chance that they wouldn`t have had a - you know a conversation about this. And you have to remember that Sarah Ferguson, she`s a spokesperson, she`s a writer, a charity patron, a film producer, a television personality.


PARKER: And don`t you always want to show your ex how well you`re doing? And be like look at all this stuff I`m doing?

BEHAR: Well you know, the thing about him is that he has suspicious activities and connections in Kazakhstan and Abu Dhabi which is in "Sex And The City" movie. It looks like there`s a lot of money there.

FULLER: I think he needs money actually.

LESSEPS: Me too.

FULLER: I don`t think that he actually has access to a lot of money like his older brother or like his mother. And his mother, the queen, even though she was once the richest woman in the world she`s notorious for being cheap.

BEHAR: She`s cheap, how many new handbags and hats does she need?

LESSEPS: No and how can you let your two granddaughters, the princesses, you know, live like --

BEHAR: Beatrice and Eugenia -

LESSEPS: Yes, of course, are not -

BEHAR: Now wait a minute. A Kazakhstani paid millions more than the value for Andrew`s old home. OK, he spends a lot of time in Kazakhstan. So even just that money that he got millions and millions for a house wherever it was, that`s not -- that sounds like he`s got some money, OK. Now let`s talk about the sting operation. Do you think it was unfair? Some people say it was entrapment.

LESSEPS: You know, I feel it is a sort of entrapment and it is unfair to lure her into this trap. I mean --

FULLER: But on the other hand, listen, she -- I believe she was doing this. It was her terrible mistake and I think though that she got into these desperate straits because she has repeatedly overspent. I mean maybe this woman is a spendaholic.


FULLER: I think she seriously has -

LESSEPS: She likes to live large.

BEHAR: She likes to live large, she gets $20,000 a year.

LESSEPS: I know.

BEHAR: Where does she come to be living so large?

LESSEPS: Well you know I think she relies on a lot of her very wealthy friends. You know, I think this is why she was so desperate to make some extra money.

BEHAR: But you can`t - Eloise though that this guy had tips that she had done this sort of thing before?

PARKER: I believe so, yes.

BEHAR: Tell me about that.

PARKER: "News Of The World" is one of the most aggressive British tabloids and those reporters go on a sting whether you approve of that method or not, the fact is it was the Duchess of York`s grave error of judgment, not theirs, that led her into this mess.

LESSEPS: That`s right.

BEHAR: And you know I can also understand if she`s a spendthrift why Andrew and the family doesn`t want to give her money. Why would they keep giving her money if she just blowing it?


FULLER: But don`t you think -- I think they would have been better off if they had given her a proper settlement, if she had an income. And if they actually -- I mean, they have a large team of people around them. How about having somebody to help her --

LESSEPS: Advise her.

FULLER: Advise her in a positive manner rather than hanging her out to dry. She is a royal embarrassment now. I don`t think it is worth it for the queen to have this happen.

BEHAR: Well she`s been through it before with Diana, we all saw the movie "The Queen," where you saw what they went through there. You would think they would have some sense, some public relations sense at this point.


BEHAR: This could be another movie.


PARKER: They have been freezing her out since 1992 when her and Andrew separated. This is almost two decades of the Duchess of York being frozen out by the royal family. On the one hand, of course, you would think that they would be trying to do some damage limitation there and take care of her -

BEHAR: Right.

PARKER: But it seems to me that they just washed their hands of her years ago. She doesn`t even get invited for Christmas. Even her children --

FULLER: The children go alone.

LESSEPS: The children, I think it`s terrible.

BEHAR: They`re so mean. They are descendents of Henry VIII. I have been watching "The Tudors Is," everything, all my conversations are based on TV shows now.

FULLER: It`s very off with their heads.

BEHAR: Off with their heads. I mean, genetically, they are not a nice group.


BEHAR: OK, thanks, everybody. And check out Luann`s single "Money Can`t Buy You Class."

LESSEPS: I love you Joy.

BEHAR: You hear that, Jesse James? It`s number eight on I-tunes.

LESSEPS: Thank you.

BEHAR: And a quick programming note, tune in tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. for my exclusive interview with Liza Minnelli. We`ll talk about her role in "Sex & The City 2." She did great by the way, her life on the stage, and so much more, you don`t want to miss it. We`ll be right back after a quick break. She was great. Did you see it?


BEHAR: Now I`m back talking about the latest on the Sarah Ferguson Duchess of York scandal. Joining me now to talk about that and all things pop culture, are CBS Sunday morning correspondent Mo Rocca, and actor and comedian Colin Quinn -


BEHAR: Whose new off Broadway show "Long Story Short" produced by Jerry Seinfeld opens next month. Wow, good for you Colin.

QUINN: Yes, I`m an actor I was never even on "LAW & ORDER." now it`s cancelled for 20 years.

BEHAR: I know, that`s the way it goes. So, Colin are you one of those people who follow the royal family?

QUINN: Yes, Joy, I sit there in the beauty parlor and follow the royal family. I got to give a damn about this sort. The only thing I like about it is she -- why is anybody belly aching? Seven hundred fifty dollars -- there are a lot of things we`d do for $750,000.

BEHAR: Really?

QUINN: Selling out a family member that rejected you is the least of it, isn`t it?

BEHAR: Well so you`re on her side?

QUINN: Totally on her side.

BEHAR: It`s skivvy, isn`t it though?

QUINN: No it`s not, just like you said, $21,000 a year is skivvy.

BEHAR: I know, that`s true, that is true. So how does this compare to other stings, Mo? Remember Marion Berry and also Frank Gifford that was a sting operation?

MO ROCCA, CORRESPONDENT, CBS SUNDAY MORNING: Yes, the problem is that this one really falls short. There is no great catch phrase I mean there is no bitch set me up or in this case like the bloke set me up. The sheep set me up.


MO ROCCA: There is that, there is no reveal on camera. I think it sort of falls short. I kind of miss the toe-sucking Fergie period.

BEHAR: Yes well -

MO ROCCA: Well, when she got them sucked.

BEHAR: She`s getting a little - she`s pushing 50 now.

MO ROCCA: But she looks like she`s lost a lot of weight.


QUINN: What are you looking at me for?

MO ROCCA: Sorry.

QUINN: Because I lost weight, too. I`m like the American Fergie in many ways.

MO ROCCA: That`s a compliment.

BEHAR: No, no -

QUINN: Thanks, Mo. I take it that way.

BEHAR: She`s threatening to move to the United States. Good move. I`m sure you think that`s a good move, right?

QUINN: Get her in a strip club. Go see Fergie, go see royalty nude, you know. She`s not that -- you know.

MO ROCCA: She paid off her debts, let`s remember. She was in a lot of debt when she divorced the Duke of York, otherwise known as Prince Andrew.

BEHAR: Yes, right.


MO ROCCA: And you know she did weight watchers, she did a lot of stuff so in a way I respect her a lot.

BEHAR: Yes but she spends a lot, too.

MO ROCCA: Yes and for that, she should be beheaded.

BEHAR: There you go.

MO ROCCA: They have that in the royal family.

BEHAR: I mean maybe it`s time to get rid of the whole monarchy. I mean who needs them? They`re on the - they`re boring.

QUINN: I`ve have been saying it for a hundred years. Trying to get you people to throw some bombs.

MO ROCCA: Not in Northern Ireland.

QUINN: That`s what I mean, in Northern Ireland. We call it the North of Ireland not Northern Ireland.

MO ROCCA: I`m sorry.

QUINN: My people are catholic. There is no Northern Ireland to us. It`s like Israel and Palestine.


BEHAR: OK but they are all Christians over there.

QUINN: What?

BEHAR: Let me tell you about another Christian commentator --

QUINN: You`re lumping us in with the Christian commentator and the Catholics? I would like to go back Paris and Greece or wherever the hell she`s from and see what they think of this --

BEHAR: Not bruta, brute, bruta means ugly, you idiot.

MO ROCCA: In Bruta means, in Spanish, yes, no -

QUINN: I don`t get it.

BEHAR: OK, this guy says "AMERICAN IDOL`S" ratings are down because Ellen DeGeneres is a lesbian. OK?

QUINN: Let me tell you - go ahead -

BEHAR: Go ahead.

MO ROCCA: No you first, I mean -

QUINN: Well I was just going to say Ellen DeGeneres, I worked with her like 20 years ago and I swear to god, I`ll stand by her to this day, she was giving me a little bit of a vibe. Now go on.

BEHAR: No wait, let me -


BEHAR: All right let`s -

QUINN: I`m not saying she`s not a lesbian. I`m saying I worked with her stand-up in New York 22 years ago. I`m telling you she was giving me a vibe.

BEHAR: OK, let`s hear what the guy said. Oh, I have to read it. It actually drives away a significant market share of parents and teens who used to watch the show together, until mom and dad decided that the subtle promotion of an alternative lifestyle to their kids was not worth the entertainment trade-off. Sorry, Ellen, you`re just not worth it.

MO ROCCA: Oh my god that guy is drinking.

BEHAR: He`s an idiot.

QUINN: First of all, how dare he pretend that Randy`s straight.


BEHAR: Randy is straight.

QUINN: Come on, is he really?

BEHAR: Yes, Randy is straight. That`s what I understand.

QUINN: Not what I know.

MO ROCCA: Harod Gaudia is Albanian. I should point that out.

BEHAR: Right so maybe it`s her -

MO ROCCA: She`s driven away the Macedonians and the Kosovars who would be watching this season. You know, Ellen is Ellen, we all love Ellen but I don`t think that Ellen has significantly lesbianized the show, it`s not that lesbian -


MO ROCCA: This year.

BEHAR: No, no it was lesbianated when?

MO ROCCA: Well last year when they had Joan arbitrating as a mentor and then they had the whole indigo girls week. They has all of that. It was much more lesbian last year.

BEHAR: So what do you think is the reason the ratings down?

QUINN: Because the show stinks. I`m completely - America`s come to their senses, after ten years of boring me.

BEHAR: Well now that Simon Cowell is gone there is no juice there at all.

QUINN: It will be miserable.

MO ROCCA: Wait, don`t turn this into a religion issue.

BEHAR: Juice.

MO ROCCA: Oh I thought it was a Jewish issue.

BEHAR: OK here`s another story, can I -

MO ROCCA: Just like a Rothschild.

BEHAR: OK, the Arizona department of education is cracking down on teachers with thick accents or who make grammatical errors when speaking. Well there goes Snooki`s shot at teaching algebra in Phoenix. And what about George Bush? And his grammatical errors all those years? They are getting rid of teachers because they have accents in Arizona. Remind you of a country, 1940ish?

QUINN: Reminds me of you when you used to teach with that accent.


BEHAR: Exactly, exactly.

MO ROCCA: Joybonics.

QUINN: The accent is --

BEHAR: Their accent -

QUINN: They`re going to be teachers like Scarface. Listen, kids, the Pythagorean theorem.

BEHAR: These you -- remember that? That`s hilarious. But you grew up in an accented house and yet you went through Harvard.

MO ROCCA: With that, yes, that`s true. It was a hardscrabble upbringing and I clawed my way over the fence across the dry dessert of the Rio Grande and made my way to Harvard. No, my mother is Colombian and she has a very thick accent. And she wouldn`t want me, you know, it`s okay for me to come in this building now but when Lou Dobbs was here, she wouldn`t want me here at all, she was afraid she would be deported.

BEHAR: I was afraid, to be here too.

QUINN: Colombians don`t like Mexicans at all. They`re the biggest snobs in South America.

MO ROCCA: Say hello to my little friend.

QUINN: Am I right or wrong?

MO ROCCA: Sorry, yes. No. Colombians speak the purest Spanish in all of Latin America. We have the second most bananas in the world and the most emeralds, as well. And we have both oceans, we have mountain coast lines, we have valleys.

BEHAR: OK, that`s fascinating.

QUINN: And people are like this. Really? You`ve got the most mountains? It`s like really we have the most mountains?

MO ROCCA: Maybe coffee --

BEHAR: All right we`ll be back with some more in just a minute. Stay there.


BEHAR: I`m back with Mo Rocca and the beautiful Colin Quinn. Earlier in the show I spoke with Vicki Mabrey, whose exclusive interview with Jesse James airs on "NIGHTLINE." Jesse told me, he told her rather, I thought he spoke to me in a dream, he wanted to get caught. Now why would someone want to get caught, you`re of men, you are of the ridiculous gender who wants to get caught cheating. Why?

MO ROCCA: The Kennedy gene, yes, right, it`s the risk, you want the danger, the thrill of it. I don`t know.

BEHAR: What do you think in.

QUINN: Because maybe you wanted to get caught like the whole Nazi fantasy and get caught like the Nazis got caught at the end of the war.

BEHAR: I see, well he did have a little bit of a Nazi thing, he dressed up like a Nazi. But he`s just --

QUINN: Oh so what, I like the fact -- here`s how politically correct our country is. That he`s actually more horrified, the worst part is that people think he`s a racist. That`s how politically correct our country is. All the other stuff, like, whatever, but people might perceive me as a racist. I`m sick of it.

BEHAR: What are you sick of, which part?

QUINN: People acting like racism is the worst crime than murder in the (EXPLICATIVE DELETED) country.

MO ROCCA: Well he didn`t murder -

QUINN: That`s what I`m sick of.

MO ROCCA: Did her murder somebody?

QUINN: Well it`s funny you bring that up -

BEHAR: What are you saying?

QUINN: I`m saying did you see how he goes the worst thing of all is people think I`m a racist.

BEHAR: Yes, yes.

QUINN: Right. I`m saying this -- the culture that we live in, everything else is -- if you`re a racist that`s the worst thing in the country.

BEHAR: Well he`s saying it`s worst than being a philanderer. I agree with that. Don`t you?

QUINN: No I don`t.

BEHAR: Because racism causes more trouble than philandering.

QUINN: I don`t know about that, not in this country.

BEHAR: Not in this lifetime for you but other people in Arizona, for example, they`re having problems.

QUINN: You`re right, I can`t believe that -- that`s brutal, trying to get people to show their I.D.


QUINN: Anyway --

MO ROCCA: should we be talking to Paula Abdul?

QUINN: That`s brutal.

BEHAR: OK speaking of "AMERICAN IDOL" --

QUINN: I had to show I.D. to get into this building.

BEHAR: OK now Paula Abdul is going to return to primetime. Stop the presses.

MO ROCCA: I know, I think it`s great.

BEHAR: She`ll start a new dance competition on CBS called "GOTTA DANCE." Not gotta dance, no, "GOT TO DANCE."

QUINN: Right.

BEHAR: OK, talk about bad grammar.

QUINN: Right.

MO ROCCA: "GOT TO DANCE" doesn`t work. It should be either have got to dance, ought to dance, it could be should dance, must dance. Well got to dance is not correct either.

BEHAR: I know but that`s the way the song goes.

QUINN: How about gotsa dance? Is that too racist?

BEHAR: Gotta dance in Italian, you don`t say that.

QUINN: Gotsa, who gotsa dance.


BEHAR: Now, I mean, how is this "GOT TO DANCE" --

QUINN: That sounds like a grand show. I can`t wait to see it.

BEHAR: I can`t either.

QUINN: Get Ellen DeGeneres on the show, bring the ratings right down.


BEHAR: How many dance shows do we need in this country?

MO ROCCA: We have about four. "DANCING WITH THE STARS," "SO THINK YOU CAN DANCE?" So you think you can dance is the only dance show with a complete sentence, it`s a question, "DANCING WITH THE STARS" is a gerund. And then there`s "DANCE YOUR ASS OFF" which is a command.


QUINN: And what about -

BEHAR: Thank you. Thank you, it`s trouble he went to Harvard. That`s what you get when you go to Harvard.

QUINN: I just came back to the Middle East, I watched the show over there, "SO YOU THINK YOU CAN DANCE" in public. Anyway.



MO ROCCA: That`s called foot loose.

BEHAR: That`s a good one.

MO ROCCA: The body is twisting so far.

QUINN: You guys are hanging out. I want to be part of the fun. I want to be part of the dance crew.

BEHAR: What about, so, you`re not going to watch that show either then in.

QUINN: Oh come on, I can barely watch "AMERICAN IDOL." I watched it once in ten years.

BEHAR: All right it took me a long time to get you on this damn show, Collin. I`ve known you 25 years.

QUINN: I told you why.


QUINN: Because I was paying you back for never coming on "TOUGH CROWDS."

BEHAR: Because of A-whole -

MO ROCCA: Mom, dad, stop it!

BEHAR: those a-holes over there --

MO ROCCA: Stop it.

BEHAR: OK. If you`re in New York, catch Colin Quinn at the Bleaker Street Theater starting June 19th.

QUINN: I don`t even -

MO ROCCA: The three of us are going to be in the subject of --

BEHAR: Tickets available at the box office -- what a plug I`m giving you and you`re such an a-hole -

QUINN: I don`t care about the plug.

BEHAR: Good night everybody