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Joy Behar Page
Jesse James Comes Clean; Fergie`s Troubles; Obama and the Oil Spill
Aired May 28, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight, on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW. Jesse James says he cheated on Sandra Bullock because he was abused as a child.
And 10-year-old Will Phillips tells Joy why he won`t recite the pledge of allegiance until all gays have equal rights.
Plus living legend Liza Minnelli dropped by to talk about her famous parents, her fabulous new clothing and jewelry line, and her new role in "Sex and the City 2".
All that and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Well, Sandra Bullock`s ex Jesse James was on "Nightline" this week. It`s hard to tell if he was sincere or if he took acting lessons from Sandra Bullock. He was candid but he wouldn`t talk about the number of mistresses.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICKI MABREY, ABC NEWS "NIGHTLINE": We`ve had five women come forward now. Did you have affairs with all of them?
JESSE JAMES, SANDRA BULLOCK`S ESTRANGED HUSBAND: I wouldn`t believe everything you read in tabloids, you know. I was unfaithful to my wife. And I`m not going to put any kind of count to it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I can`t really blame him. He`s just not that good with numbers. Ok.
Here now to discuss this and other juicy news are comedian Chuck Nice; Monica Pedersen, from HGTV`s "Designed to Sell"; Knight; and actor Dustin Diamond.
Go ahead, you jump in already.
CHUCK NICE, COMEDIAN: Let me just tell you, any time somebody says who`s counting, they have already counted.
MONICA PEDERSEN, HGTV, "DESIGNED TO SELL": Right.
NICE: I only slept with four guys in my life. I`m not gay, but who`s counting? Come on, man.
BEHAR: You notice how none of these guys who are like addicted to sex ever say how great it was? Wasn`t exactly torture that Tiger Woods was going through and this guy too, right?
NICE: No. Not at all. And that`s why he doesn`t want to actually give a number. Don`t believe what you read in the tabloids, the fact that I had awesome mind-blowing sex with eight different women means nothing.
BEHAR: Yes. Exactly.
DUSTIN DIAMOND, ACTOR: Looks like they might have edited something out. Like, you know, Jesse James he was like he would be the type to say, "Well, can I see pictures? Who is coming forward? No, definitely not her, ok her, definitely not her."
NICE: Yes, he wants a lineup.
PEDERSEN: But I think the less he talks about it, the better. He needs to disappear. I mean the more he talks about it, the more disrespectful it is to Sandra Bullock. He needs to say, "I`m sorry, please forgive me," and hide.
BEHAR: Yes. But he seems to be reconstructing his image a little bit here, right? I mean he said that his father broke his arm when he was a child. So that makes everybody feel sympathetic to him.
DIAMOND: Anybody even remotely close to 40 has been abused by their father. We come from an era where all dads were tough. So that`s kind of a cop out.
NICE: And I`ve got news for him. If your father takes your arm and snaps it, your father broke your arm. If you were running from your father and you fall and break your arm, you`re just a clumsy oaf.
BEHAR: But he also said he -- that`s why he cheated on Sandra. He talked about that too.
NICE: Ok.
BEHAR: You want to watch it? Let`s watch that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES: I may seem like a monster in people`s eyes, but I`m not that kind of person where I`ll willfully, you know what, "I`m going to really show her, I`ll get her." That`s not what it`s about. It`s about trying to push someone away that I thought was going to leave anyway.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Are you buying that, Chuck?
NICE: No, what a crock.
BEHAR: And he also said he wanted to get caught, you know? Well, it worked.
NICE: Everyone says that after they`ve been caught. It was my cry for help.
BEHAR: Right. But he`s -- go ahead.
PEDERSEN: Well, I don`t think he`s someone who is really sabotaged. His career -- he`s come from nothing. He`s made this great career and he`s done a great job in that area of his life. I don`t think he`s trying to self-sabotage.
BEHAR: What is his career again?
NICE: Motorcycles.
PEDERSEN: Fixing motorcycles, great show.
NICE: I thought his career was Mrs. Sandra Bullock.
PEDERSEN: No, he had a --
NICE: That would have been my career. If Sandra Bullock married Chuck Nice, guess what my new career is? Mrs. Sandra Bullock.
BEHAR: How did he do, anyway? Let`s just give him -- on a scale of one to ten, what do you think? Did it resuscitate and help his PR -- his campaign -- his PR?
NICE: I thought he was very brave to attempt the worst PR stunt ever. That`s what I think. That`s epic failure.
BEHAR: Ok. What do you think?
PEDERSEN: I think it was desperate.
DIAMOND: I think he`ll probably be single for the rest of his life after that one. I mean Sandra`s sweet, come on.
BEHAR: No, there`s always a tattooed Nazi coming down the pike.
Former royal Sarah Ferguson had a rough start to her week when she was caught selling access to Prince Andrew. She took responsibility, apologized and then came to New York for an appearance at a book show.
You`ve got to love the girl. She won`t give up a gig, this girl. You know what I mean? She`s going to show up no matter what.
So listen to what she said at the book show just days after the scandal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH FERGUSON, FORMER WIFE OF PRINCE ANDREW OF ENGLAND: I`m delighted to be standing here. It was quite difficult for me to get here to Javits Center this morning; one or two people in the way. But then you might have read that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: She seems to be loving this.
NICE: You know it.
BEHAR: Right?
NICE: I don`t blame her either. Because quite frankly she did nothing wrong. Technically under the law, she didn`t do anything wrong that`s why she`s over here pitching books instead of sitting in a Britain prison. Because the fact that you peddled influence is not necessary -- it`s poor form, it`s awkward and clumsy, but it is not against the law.
And who wouldn`t? If I were married to a royal, I not only would be peddling influence, I`d be selling tickets to my house.
BEHAR: Right.
NICE: You know.
DIAMOND: Plus, if you want non-extradition, you don`t come to New York. They can come nab you out of here, you know.
BEHAR: Do you think he was part of it, Andrew?
PEDERSEN: I don`t think so. I mean I might be naive about this but I don`t think so. And I think it`s dangerous for her family, for her kids. Her kids are coming home. Maybe they want to talk about what they did with dad. Like Dad and I went here and now her kids can`t even speak freely to her about it. I just -- the whole story makes me laugh.
BEHAR: It makes you laugh?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: This poor girl is suffering.
PEDERSEN: I know she`s desperate. I think the queen needs to throw her some money. I mean she needs some money.
BEHAR: The queen is so cheap. The woman --
PEDERSEN: This is a wake-up call.
BEHAR: That queen, really. And you notice how Diana and Fergie both were like, out. She must be a nightmare of a mother-in-law that one.
NICE: Oh, I could only imagine. But then again, she`s the Queen of England. Who wants that as a mother? There`s nothing that -- who is good enough for your son when you are the Queen of England?
BEHAR: That`s true.
DIAMOND: What do you get her for Christmas? There`s just nothing. She has everything.
BEHAR: I know that`s true.
This week, a new "American Idol" was crowned. His name is Lee Dewyze. But more interesting to me is the loss of judge Simon Cowell who made his last idol appearance and his moving on.
Ok. What do you think of that? Is it going to survive or not?
DIAMOND: Definitely not. Maybe it`s just me. I`m one of those people who watches the show for the bad auditions. And if people can sing, that`s great another person with a talent that far exceeds mine. They can sing. They can dance.
But I like watching the William Hungs out there. Those are the guys that really make my day.
BEHAR: Why?
DIAMOND: Because it`s entertaining. These guys put their heart on the line. It`s like singing in the shower. You don`t sing in public. But the people who sing in the shower and sing in public, they`re out there and they`re not trying to sound like the artist on the radio. Good for them.
BEHAR: I see.
NICE: I`d like to say this. Very quickly, anecdotally, when I was a kid, I had a crazy uncle who used to come to every cookout. And would almost ruin every cookout, but he was so entertaining. He was out of his mind. When he passed away, the cookouts sucked. They sucked because the crazy uncle wasn`t there anymore. Paula Abdul leaving "Idol" killed it.
BEHAR: I thought you were going with Simon. You were going with Paula.
NICE: Yes, it died when Paula left, not Simon.
BEHAR: Did you see her little thing that she said to Simon? She sounded like she didn`t really -- she wasn`t really there. Something was up there.
NICE: I did see the clip of her whole speech. And the thing I liked about it was she took the moment to bask in the glory of her accolades. And then before she said, "Simon, I`ll get to you in a second. Thank you all so very much."
BEHAR: It`s all about her.
NICE: It`s about her.
BEHAR: Whole thing is about her.
NICE: She`s crazy. I love it.
BEHAR: Ok. I`d like to give a shout out to 10-year-old Will Phillips of Arkansas for refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance because he believes that as long as gay people can`t get married then it`s not justice for all. This is one smart little kid, I think. And I bet he sold all his BP stock months ago.
Stay tuned, he`ll be here later. Way to go, Will.
Now, if you`re in New York, catch Chuck Nice at Gotham Comedy Club June 3rd. And see Dustin Diamond in the "Awesome 80s Prom" at Webster Hall now through June 26th. And for some great deals, check out the site Monica`s working with called mastercardmarketplace.com.
We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: President Obama is taking heat from both the right and the left for the oil spill in the Gulf. It seems like the critics have lots of complaints, but few solutions.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: BP is not the equal of the United States government. And this President needs to tell BP, "I`m your daddy. I`m in charge."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was James Carville yesterday and here`s President Obama today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And when I woke up this morning and I`m shaving and Malia knocks on my bathroom door and peaks in her head and she says, "Did you plug the hole yet, daddy?"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: And I thought it was creepy when Reagan called Nancy mommy.
Joining me to talk about all things political are Steve Kornacki, news editor and columnist for Salon.com and Ari Melber, correspondent for "The Nation".
Daddy, daddy, daddy -- is daddy going to fix this?
ARI MELBER, CORRESPONDENT, "THE NATION": You know, the -- the thing about this is you guys were teasing the puff baby spot next. This is a little bit like puff baby, in that everyone gets that it`s wrong. No one is saying this oil spill is a good idea --
BEHAR: Right.
MELBER: -- and no one is saying a 2-year-old should be smoking and the hard part is kicking the habit, or in this case, plugging the hole.
And so I don`t think the criticisms, whether they`re coming from James Carville, who obviously has good intentions or the Republicans make a lot of difference right now, because yes, everyone is trying to plug the hole.
BEHAR: Yes, ok.
STEVE KORNACKI, SALON.COM: But what this, you know, the Carville one is interesting to me, because you know, the emotion is sincere behind what he`s saying. You know, do something, go down there and show BP who`s boss, but translate that for me.
What does that mean? What specifically should Obama be doing or should Obama have done besides go down there and roll up his sleeves and have the photo ops and be you know more, quote, "engaged" than Bush.
What can he actually do and what can the United States government actually do? The company that has the technology, you know, whatever you want to say about BP, they were negligent in causing this, it is totally and completely in their best interest to solve this as fast as possible --
BEHAR: Right.
KORNACKI: -- because they are getting killed every day. And they have the means; they have the know-how to do it and much more than the U.S. government.
BEHAR: BP does?
KORNACKI: Yes, much more than the U.S. government.
BEHAR: Yes, right.
MELBER: And one point on that, I mean, the spill was on April 20th, and by April 28th, the U.S. military was employed they have C-130s they are doing the project. That already happened. So to the extent to that criticism is that happened too slowly, eight days was too long which experts can say; that`s all in the past.
So yes, the Carville thing that`s getting all this political attention is really about the past. Obviously the military is now engaged --
BEHAR: So why is he doing it -- why is he going after Obama? Why is he doing all that? Political -- what`s his political motivation?
KORNACKI: Well, you want to say his political motivation, I mean he`s down there in Louisiana, that`s his home state.
BEHAR: Yes.
KORNACKI: Maybe he feels -- you know maybe he`s a little emotionally worked up because of that.
BEHAR: Right.
KORNACKI: He was never -- he was never an Obama guy. Remember, he stayed with Hillary all to the end.
BEHAR: To Hillary, yes. Yes.
KORNACKI: I notice his wife standing there next to him. And she was happy to chime in.
BEHAR: Oh yes.
KORNACKI: His wife is Republican operative, Mary Matalin.
BEHAR: Finally --
KORNACKI: She was happy --
BEHAR: -- finally they have loved each other again.
KORNACKI: -- they found their common ground.
BEHAR: That`s right.
KORNACKI: She was happy to chime in and say, "Oh, yes, Obama has really screwed this up." And you know, I mean, this is, get away from James Carville, what this really is, the Republicans are dying to have their "got you" moment with Obama, where they can say, this is his Katrina.
See all of those -- all of the insults, all of the criticisms that were hurled at the Bush right after Katrina. They are just dying to throw back at the Democrats.
BEHAR: But isn`t this sort of like the same problem, the Bush/Cheney administration started it and now this poor guy has to mop it up. I mean, they de-regulated the oil industry, right?
MELBER: Yes.
BEHAR: And is it ever a good idea to de-regulate such a huge corporation like that? That`s a bad idea.
MELBER: Well, you know it`s a funny thing, it`s become very popular to beat up on BP and the other companies involved and say they are evil and they are bad. Obviously, they`re terribly responsible for these things, but it`s not evil to save money. That`s what corporations are supposed to do.
There`s been articles this week about the acoustic trigger, which is a $500,000 thing, basically -- I`m keeping it simple, Joy, so we`ll call it a thing that might have stopped the spill but they didn`t haven`t it.
Now, there are countries like Brazil that require these companies to have the trigger. We don`t know whether that that might have made the difference. But, yes, when you don`t have the regulations that force the safety devices --
BEHAR: Yes.
MELBER: -- then any company, good or bad, the company is going to try to save money, and we are, as you say, from de-regulation, we`re worse off for it.
BEHAR: Ok, but that`s a Republican mantra, to stay out of business, right? But now Sarah Palin is saying the government should fix it. Which way -- she wants it both ways.
KORNACKI: She -- but this is -- this is why it`s --
BEHAR: She`s typical.
KORNACKI: -- it`s just pure politics.
BEHAR: Yes.
KORNACKI: It`s not about what they actually want from a policy standpoint; what they actually believe from a policy standpoint.
When you see somebody like Sarah Palin, when you see Mike Pence, you know, the Congressman from Indiana, who`s been all over the place, trying to have this very shameful tone in his voice about -- about how Obama has been so bad in this, it doesn`t matter to them.
They are looking to score political points in this. They are looking to get a wedge to use against Obama. They are looking to say this is Obama`s Katrina.
And the problem from Obama`s standpoint is too many people in this country embrace this basic attitude. We talk about, you know, looking to daddy, too many people in this country embrace the attitude that when there`s a problem, any problem, anywhere in this country that gets all over CNN, all over MSNBC, they have to look to the President to solve it.
And so what -- what`s Obama left to do? He`s left there to hold the press conference and everyone`s going to analyze the tone of his voice, and you know, whether he showed up there soon enough. And all these things that really don`t matter, everybody ends up looking to him for answers; ends up analyzing and it doesn`t really add up to anything.
BEHAR: Again, this though, could hurt him politically in the next election and it sort of bothers me that that will happen to him. Because, again, he`s just -- who signed off on this -- this lack of safety gadget that you were talking about? Who signed off on that?
MELBER: Well, most of that, yes, is a period of policies that were promulgated largely under the Bush administration and the Minerals Service and all of those things. And also Congress, where I do think both parties -- definitely more Bush and more of the Republicans led to de-regulation -- but both parties in many instances did this.
We`ve been talking also in the news about whether you can get money back to help pay for this stuff and there`s a cap that Congress put in place. Both parties helped pass that. And now we`re saying, well maybe we should raise the cap.
But I do think it`s highly hypocritical of Republicans here to attack the government while they have been slowly dismantling the federal government`s budget and abilities to --
BEHAR: Right.
MELBER: -- regulate.
BEHAR: And will the American voter buy that? What are they going to buy in November?
MELBER: I think --
BEHAR: And again in 2012? What`s going to happen?
MELBER: I think if you look at -- with the mood out there, it is very angry. So there is disapproval of the corporate side of this on BP, but there`s also disapproval of the federal government`s role.
So I think the fact that you have so much anger and the economic malaise means that people are less receptive to what is frankly a complicated argument for Obama to make. Which is, yes, we messed up a little bit, but also we need to fund the government to prevent this.
Well, right there, I just spent two sentences and it doesn`t sound that convincing, although it`s true. So I think, if you look towards November, people are still angry and there`s an obviously an anti-incumbent sentiment.
BEHAR: Ok, but he`s fired this Birnbaum, Elizabeth Birnbaum, who is the head of the -- what is it?
KORNACKI: Mineral --
BEHAR: Mineral Management Service.
KORNACKI: Yes.
BEHAR: He didn`t say heck of a job, Lizzy, though.
KORNACKI: Well, yes, this is -- this is his way of not having the Michael Brown moment. It`s the rule of every time there`s a big story like this in the media, he`s looking for action. What do you do, you have a scapegoat, you fire somebody.
I`m waiting for the White House to find somebody in this whole Joe Sestak situation where they`re going to fire the -- you know try to blame it on --
BEHAR: Oh that`s another story.
KORNACKI: Same -- same idea the Republican is jumping in all -- I mean, I`m just waiting for the scapegoat to emerge to that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Joe Scarborough has been banging the drum every morning on his show about that story.
KORNACKI: Right, now we know what you watch in the morning.
BEHAR: I watch everything in the morning, I flip around, but every time I flip to him, he`s on that Sestak story. What is that?
KORNACKI: Yes and ask -- ask him about Judd Gregg who tried to extort the Governor of New Hampshire when the Obama people wanted him to be the Commerce Secretary and Judd Gregg says, I`ll only be your commerce secretary if they appoint a Republican to the senate. That was last year. And all the Republicans were cheering Judd Gregg for doing that.
BEHAR: You should go on that show and tell him that.
By the way, he`s putting -- Obama`s putting a moratorium on offshore drilling. Is that a good idea? Yes or no before we go.
KORNACKI: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes.
MELBER: Yes. It should never have advanced in the first place.
BEHAR: Ok. We`ll be right back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: You know, over the past couple of months, I learned two things. You don`t have to be a child to get into tickle fights; Exhibit A, Eric Massa. And you don`t have to be an adult to be an activist; Exhibit B, Will Phillips. The 10-year-old is taking a stand by refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance until gay people have the right to marry. The gay and lesbian group GLAAD awarded him for his activism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILL PHILLIPS, REFUSES TO SAY "PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE": I believe activism is important. Activism is change. It is the fuel, lubricant and engine that drives the slowly moving turtle mobile that is progress.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Will Phillips joins me now. Hey, Will.
PHILLIPS: Hi.
BEHAR: Now, you stopped saying the Pledge in October. Tell me why, and what happened that day?
PHILLIPS: I stopped saying the "Pledge of allegiance" because of the "liberty and justice for all" part at the end; that there isn`t really liberty and justice for all, specifically concerning the LGBT community.
BEHAR: The gay and lesbian community.
PHILLIPS: Yes.
BEHAR: There is not because they cannot get married, is that what you`re saying?
PHILLIPS: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s not the "under God" part that bothers you. A lot of people are bothered by that because they say there`s a separation of church of state.
PHILLIPS: Well, that also bothered me, but it was mainly --
BEHAR: The gay thing. Do you come from a gay family?
PHILLIPS: No.
BEHAR: Who taught you about gay issues?
PHILLIPS: They did.
BEHAR: What did they tell you?
PHILLIPS: They told me that sometimes you grow up to marry a boy and sometimes you grow up to marry a girl. And when you`re that old, you`ll know.
BEHAR: When you`re as old as they are -- your parents?
PHILLIPS: They said you`ll know when the time comes.
BEHAR: Oh, that was -- you come from a very liberal, open-minded family. What does your daddy do?
PHILLIPS: He`s a bus driver.
BEHAR: And your mother?
PHILLIPS: Works in a health center.
BEHAR: And they both were very, very -- and where are you going to go to college?
PHILLIPS: Stanford University.
BEHAR: Oh. What are you going to do when you grow up?
PHILLIPS: Be a lawyer.
BEHAR: Why do you want to be a lawyer?
PHILLIPS: Because if I`m a lawyer, I can easily make change.
BEHAR: Well, you better --
PHILLIPS: I will have to get into a huge position. I don`t want to have to spend millions of dollars and stuff to campaign to make some change.
BEHAR: Do you want to be president some day of the country?
PHILLIPS: No.
BEHAR: But that`s where you can have power and make change, you know.
PHILLIPS: Yes, but I also want to keep my sanity.
BEHAR: Well, that would be smart.
Now, you got mad at your teacher for getting upset with you that day that you said you weren`t going to do the Pledge. She got mad at you because you refused to do it. What did you do? What did you tell her?
PHILLIPS: Well, on the first day, it was just me shaking my head and her gesturing for me to stand up. And that went on for four days. And then on Friday, she said I know your mom and your grandma, and they would want you to stand up. And I got really mad and said, "Ma`am, with all due respect, you can go jump off a bridge."
BEHAR: See now, I was a teacher, and I would have had to send you to the principal`s office for that.
PHILLIPS: Yes. That`s what happened.
BEHAR: Even if I agreed with you. But you were a little bit insubordinate there, but that`s what happens when you protest big ideas.
PHILLIPS: Yes.
BEHAR: Well, it`s really nice to meet you.
PHILLIPS: Nice to meet you.
BEHAR: Keep it going, kid. Ok.
PHILLIPS: Thank you.
BEHAR: Thank you. We`ll be right back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Liza Minnelli has an Oscar, an Emmy, a Grammy, and four Tonys. Not only that, she has entertained more gay men than Larry Craig in an airport men`s room.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That song we just heard was Liza performing Beyonce`s "Single Ladies" from "Sex & The City 2" which opens Thursday. The legendary Liza Minnelli joins me now.
LIZA MINNELLI, SINGER/ACTRESS: Thank you, honey.
BEHAR: Welcome to my show, Liza. I`m so thrilled to have you here. And I have to tell you, you stole that movie with that number.
MINNELLI: Oh, well it wasn`t me. It was a wonderful man called Ron Lewis.
BEHAR: That wasn`t you dancing?
MINNELLI: Well, no. It was because of him. I mean he had the girls looking exactly like me. He tipped his hat to my friend Beyonce, but that number was original. I mean all the things that he did in it that were so hot and sexy.
BEHAR: Yes.
MINNELLI: That`s Ron Lewis.
BEHAR: But you were at the top of your game. I mean you were terrific in that scene.
MINNELLI: Thank you.
BEHAR: Everybody is saying that.
MINNELLI: Thank you.
BEHAR: About how great it is, you know. So was it fun doing this movie?
MINNELLI: Yes!
BEHAR: It was fun?
MINNELLI: It`s great fun. Because, you know, you`re part of something that everybody really likes.
BEHAR: Right.
MINNELLI: You know and that we all watched, whether we admitted it or not.
BEHAR: The movie?
MINNELLI: Yes, we all -- we watched it.
BEHAR: It`s a pleasure, a guilty pleasure.
MINNELLI: Oh, I stayed for the whole movie. I stayed.
BEHAR: I stayed also. I did. I did. Kim Catrell is very funny in the film.
MINNELLI: She is wonderful.
BEHAR: Yes but was it fun to be in front of the camera? Because you haven`t really made movies lately? Is it fun to do a movie again? Because I know you did a lot of live performance.
MINNELLI: Sure. But I always think like I`m in front of a camera. You know, I think in angles and I think in shots. I guess because of I`m my father`s daughter too.
BEHAR: That`s right. The famous and legendary film director Vincent Minnelli. Vincent Minnelli.
MINNELLI: Vincente Minnelli.
BEHAR: Well he an e at the end of his t.
MINNELLI: I know. Whatever.
BEHAR: Yes whatever. But he was a great movie director of musical comedies.
MINNELLI: He was the only director at MGM that did everything. He did musicals. He did comedies, the long, long trailer. He did, you know, Madam Beauvary.
BEHAR: With Jennifer Jones.
MINNELLI: Yes. He did everything.
BEHAR: You come from an incredible family.
MINNELLI: I do.
BEHAR: I mean between your father and your mother, Jimmy Garland --
MINNELLI: And my grandparents, as far back as I could trace were all in show business.
BEHAR: Really so that`s the whole thing. Knits the genes at this point, isn`t it?
MINNELLI: I guess we`re bred into it, you know. We`re vaudevillians and circus people.
BEHAR: What was the greatest thing about being in that family, do you think?
MINNELLI: The watching.
BEHAR: Watching them perform?
MINNELLI: Yes -- no. Watching how it all worked. Watching like I`m looking now at this set. And I was watching the lighting and this that and the other. And you`re wonderful -- how you`re in control of everything. I just love seeing how things -- how things happen. You know And it keeps everything very in the moment for me.
BEHAR: Have you ever wanted to be a director?
MINNELLI: Well, I kind of worked with Ron Lewis on my own shows.
BEHAR: You do? The live show?
MINNELLI: Oh yes, yes.
BEHAR: But they`re televised like "LIZA WITH A Z." Did you work on that with him as a director too?
MINNELLI: Oh, no, that was Fosse.
BEHAR: Oh, only the best for you.
MINNELLI: No, I think like a camera. I do. I think in close-up and medium shot, at this angle, at that angle. I don`t know. I was bred to I guess, really.
BEHAR: That`s what you were exposed to. I mean that`s a wonderful thing, to be expose to that type of stuff. But in addition to that, you were exposed to your mother -
MINNELLI: Oh yes.
BEHAR: Who was one of the great performers of the 20th century.
MINNELLI: And one of the funniest people I met in my life.
BEHAR: Hilarious, she was very funny when she would be on Johnny Carson or Merv Griffin.
MINNELLI: Oh, please, oh please.
BEHAR: She was really a riot.
MINNELLI: Yes, she was really funny.
BEHAR: Was she the kind of person who was blue? Like her stuff was, you know, like she would do a dirty joke and have everyone cracking?
MINNELLI: Oh she was clever with dirty words, it was witty.
BEHAR: Witty words.
MINNELLI: Yes. It was real wit, which has kind of disappeared now.
BEHAR: Yes.
MINNELLI: And I can`t think of an example. I`ll think of one and tell you later.
BEHAR: OK. Now the other thing about you and your mother is that you`re both gay icons. I mentioned it in my introduction. What do you think that is about? There are very few people in your category, really in the gay community. I can think of Judy Garland, Liza Minnelli, maybe Bette Midler.
MINNELLI: Sure.
BEHAR: I think she is another one.
MINNELLI: Sure.
BEHAR: You know you have Kathy Griffin coming up and Joan Rivers is a gay icon.
MINNELLI: Sure, yes, yes.
BEHAR: But what do you think that is about with you and Judy?
MINNELLI: I think it`s simple. They have good taste.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Well, I agree with that.
MINNELLI: That`s my answer.
BEHAR: I agree with that. It`s not really -- it`s not bragging, it`s just the truth.
MINNELLI: No. They have good taste.
BEHAR: They do have good taste. They know talent and they appreciate talent in the gay community. I noticed that.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: But there must be some other thing because there are many people who have talent.
MINNELLI: You know something? I don`t know, Joy. I honestly don`t know. But I`m grateful.
BEHAR: It is that they identify -- let`s take your mother. Your mother had her ups and downs. She had many difficult years.
MINNELLI: I guess so. I guess you`re right. I think maybe you`re right.
BEHAR: You know something to do with that.
MINNELLI: I honestly -- I honestly don`t know. You would have to ask somebody who is gay. I don`t know.
BEHAR: I have 20 gay guys here. Maybe I should turn around and ask them. Hey Henry! But I think that that`s it. Even for you, you`ve had difficult times in your life, you know. And I think that the gay community identifies with difficult times because they have difficult times.
MINNELLI: Well, you can tell by the press today.
BEHAR: Yes.
MINNELLI: I mean we`ve all been through everything, you know. And people like it when they read about people`s trials and tribulations.
BEHAR: Why do they like it? Is it sadistic or do they identify?
MINNELLI: I think it makes them feel better what they are going through themselves.
BEHAR: That would explain a lot of reality shows.
MINNELLI: I guess so. You know, that`s the way it is. You have to look at what is. And kind of figure out why it is, and then just watch it.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
MINNELLI: You know.
BEHAR: Right. Now you`re going on tour, I understand, starting June 5th. You`re starting in St. Louis, Missouri.
MINNELLI: Oh yes, yes.
BEHAR: Which is a great town. I`ve been there many times.
MINNELLI: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: It`s a lot of work for you.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s a lot for me. I go on the roads sometimes. It`s exhausting. Why are you doing it?
MINNELLI: I like it!
BEHAR: You like it?
MINNELLI: I like it.
BEHAR: You do.
MINNELLI: Yes, I enjoy it. It`s in my soul.
BEHAR: It`s in your soul, yes. To just get out there and wow them.
MINNELLI: No, it`s a sharing experience. It sounds corny. I don`t know. It`s what I do.
BEHAR: It`s what I do. Right.
MINNELLI: I go out and I learn from Charles Aznavour. There are songs about every experience. You know, I sing a song about a deaf girl who falls in love with a man and she doesn`t know how to talk to him. Things like that. I find -- I find songs about people that don`t have songs written about them.
BEHAR: Well deaf people usually don`t. You`re right.
MINNELLI: No. I have a song about a gay guy.
BEHAR: What`s it called?
MINNELLI: It`s called "What Makes A Man A Man."
BEHAR: That`s nice.
MINNELLI: It`s wonderful. Charles.
BEHAR: Charles Aznavour wrote that?
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: He is great.
MINNELLI: Yes, he is swell.
BEHAR: I once asked Rosemary Clooney the question, you know she passed away a couple of years ago.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: She was a great, great artist in my opinion.
MINNELLI: She was the best.
BEHAR: She should have won 20 Grammies. I don`t know why she did.
MINNELLI: She should have won anything.
BEHAR: I know.
MINNELLI: Anything there was to win she should have won it.
BEHAR: Most brilliant and so touching when she sang. I said to her why do you go on the road. She said it`s what I do, just like what you just said to me.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s what you do. And it`s what we do. We get out there and try to make these people laugh. OK, Liza, stay right there. We`re going to be back with the legendary Liza Minnelli in just a moment. So don`t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: A great film. I`m back with Liza Minnelli who won an Oscar for her role as Sally Balding in "Cabaret" in 1972. You were a baby. We were all babies in 1972.
MINNELLI: We sure were.
BEHAR: Yes, isn`t it nice that there is a resurgence of older women on television? Look at Betty White. She is 88.
MINNELLI: I know that`s great. Oh, she is wonderful.
BEHAR: Yes.
MINNELLI: Isn`t she wonderful?
BEHAR: She is great. I mean she`s been Joan, you know.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: How old is Joan, 40, 50 now?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But you know, I asked you before, what was the best thing about being in a famous family. What was the worst thing? What was hard?
MINNELLI: The lack of privacy. But you learn how`d to deal with it.
BEHAR: How did you deal with it?
MINNELLI: You closed the door. Now it`s hard.
BEHAR: It would be hard now. The paparazzi are everywhere now.
MINNELLI: No, but it`s the machines.
BEHAR: What machines?
MINNELLI: Excuse me?
BEHAR: You mean the Blackberries and things?
MINNELLI: Everything.
BEHAR: Oh, yes, that.
MINNELLI: You look around for cameras and the thing. You know, I find it interesting, but I`m very aware of it all the time. Because I grew up protecting my parents.
BEHAR: Why did you have to protect them? You were the child.
MINNELLI: Because that`s the way it was. You just wanted to. We`re family. You know.
BEHAR: But you were a kid.
MINNELLI: So were we all once. Didn`t you feel responsible when you were a kid?
BEHAR: Are for my parents? Nah, let them hang.
MINNELLI: You`re baiting me something, something I ain`t going to do.
BEHAR: You know, I have to tell you something. And I don`t know if you want to talk about this, but I was at your wedding.
MINNELLI: Which one?
BEHAR: I hope the last one.
MINNELLI: Oh, you bet it was.
BEHAR: I was at that wedding. Everybody in America was at that wedding. Every famous person. There were people I hadn`t seen in 50 years. Jane Wyman.
MINNELLI: I know.
BEHAR: Jane Powell.
MINNELLI: All those poor people.
BEHAR: All the Janes. There was one row, just Janes.
MINNELLI: Yes Janes, I know.
BEHAR: You know? MINNELLI: And they were so nice to come out for it. And you know something terrible?
BEHAR: Yes?
MINNELLI: I only found out I paid for that.
BEHAR: You paid for that wedding?
MINNELLI: Yes. I only found out about five months ago.
BEHAR: Why? You just got the bill?
MINNELLI: I just found out. No. Because I said to somebody, well, I mean that`s -- I never mention that name again.
BEHAR: We don`t have to say the name.
MINNELLI: Oh, no, no. Ever.
BEHAR: OK.
MINNELLI: And so I said well at least it was pretty. It should be. It cost however much money it cost. I said yes. And they said and you paid for it. I said oh. So what do I have to do today? Thinking OK, I got to go to work because I got the keep working.
BEHAR: So you thought that piece who shall be nameless, you thought he paid for it?
MINNELLI: Oh, sure. I didn`t know.
BEHAR: That was a sneaky thing to do, stick you with the bill. And damn, it was big wedding too.
MINNELLI: No kidding.
BEHAR: It must have cost a fortune. Oh my god. But Elizabeth Taylor was there. What was the story? She lost her shoes or something at the wedding?
MINNELLI: I think she left her shoes at the hotel.
BEHAR: So what was she at the wedding, her slippers?
MINNELLI: No, they went back and got her shoes.
BEHAR: But she was barefoot?
MINNELLI: No, we all waited. You know, it`s Elizabeth.
BEHAR: Elizabeth, oh, yes, queen Elizabeth. And Michael Jackson was -- wasn`t he the best man or an usher there?
MINNELLI: Yes. And I grabbed him.
BEHAR: You were friends with him, right?
MINNELLI: Oh, yes. So I grabbed him when I saw him when I got out of there. And I grabbed him and I said why did you let me marry this idiot? And he said I thought you liked him. You looked so happy. Your dress was so -- I don`t know. Let me go! I said Michael! How could you? He said it`s over. Relax. And then we look at each other and we started to laugh. We really -- then we really started to laugh.
BEHAR: Well, you know, you looked like you were madly in love with him. Or he looked like he was madly in love with you. He threw his tongue down your throat like he was going to kiss your lungs.
MINNELLI: Honey, did you see my face?
BEHAR: Well, you looked a little scared.
MINNELLI: A little scared? I looked like just what you said. What the! I looked like.
BEHAR: I know. Just say wtf. That gets you through everything.
MINNELLI: It was hilarious, well, some of the things I have been through make me laugh so hard when I think back.
BEHAR: You got to laugh.
MINNELLI: Oh my god.
BEHAR: You got to laugh. I mean that`s the thing.
MINNELLI: It is funny. I mean, it`s really funny. Because if you can`t look at it and rewrite it.
BEHAR: Isn`t that what comedy is about?
MINNELLI: Isn`t that what making it through and going forward and surviving is about?
BEHAR: Yes, it is.
MINNELLI: Isn`t that what women are about?
BEHAR: About women in particular.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: Well we have to laugh because we have so much aggravation in the world.
MINNELLI: Agedani (ph)
BEHAR: Did you speak Italian as a kid?
MINNELLI: No.
BEHAR: Your father did?
MINNELLI: No.
BEHAR: Oh nobody really spoke Italian.
MINNELLI: No.
BEHAR: But he was Italian, right?
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes, and mom?
MINNELLI: Irish-French.
BEHAR: Irish-French, uh huh, so you`re a mixed breed.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: Anyway, we were looking at "Cabaret" before. And I was thinking, that is one of the great musicals on screen. Along with I think "Chicago" I like of more recent ones, "Chicago." not your father`s were great in his time.
MINNELLI: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: It`s hard to do a musical these days. But they managed to do it in "Chicago." "Dream Girls," turned out well.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: But like "Nine" flopped, "Nine" flopped.
MINNELLI: You have to think from the audience`s point of view, I think. So if I was directing a musical, I would go sit in the theater somewhere and think, OK, if something came on the screen, what would I believe?
BEHAR: Uh huh, right.
MINNELLI: What would hook me and what would I believe?
BEHAR: Right.
MINNELLI: And that`s where you start from. I think.
BEHAR: Yes. Maybe it`s hard to translate that sort of thing on to the screen, which is why your father and Stanley Donen did beautiful work in the old days.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: OK, we`ll be back -
MINNELLI: With Gene Kelly.
BEHAR: With Gene Kelly.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: He was a great dancer, right. Who was a better dancer? Gene Kelly or Fred Astaire?
MINNELLI: They were completely different.
BEHAR: I know but if you had to pick, if someone had a gun to your head.
MINNELLI: No, you don`t pick.
BEHAR: Come on.
MINNELLI: They`re completely different.
BEHAR: All right, I like Fred Astaire better, OK, back with more Liza Minnelli after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Liza Minnelli has shared the stage with the greatest entertainers of all time. Charles Aznavour, as she mentioned before, Sammy Davis, Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra, or should I say, they`ve shared the stage with her. I`m back with Liza, that must have been a period -- I really envy that time to be with the rat pack and hang out with Sinatra and Dean and those guys. Tell me something. Give me something.
MINNELLI: It`s like being with the neighbors.
BEHAR: Oh really?
MINNELLI: Well, I grew up with them.
BEHAR: You know, to you it`s nothing because you grew -- to everybody else, we`re like --
MINNELLI: Well they were so nice to me. You know, because I was like the kid. And I had a wonderful time. You know, my drummer, my conductor was there with me. So we would start and after the show we`d go eat with frank then we`d go to sally`s room and we`d, you know, rag on what happened at dinner.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
MINNELLI: Then, of course, pappy and I would go to our room and -- not our room -- my room and rag on what happened with Sam.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
MINNELLI: And then we`d go to bed and it was 6:00 in the morning --
BEHAR: Oh boy.
MINNELLI: -- and we`d get up. Now, frank used to like -- uncle Frank -- use the to like to get on a plane, arrive, get to the theater and go from the car to the stage. Sammy and I couldn`t do that.
BEHAR: Why, why not?
MINNELLI: Because we`re vaudevillians. We have to get there, rehearse, two hours, relax, get the makeup on --
BEHAR: Check sound.
MINNELLI: Check sound. Yes, own it.
BEHAR: But not Sinatra. He used to just go right there --
MINNELLI: No. That`s -- is so he did it his way and he was brilliant.
BEHAR: He was brilliant.
MINNELLI: Brilliant. We did it our way, and staging, where he went, we didn`t go.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
MINNELLI: He went there, we went here and -- you know, we just -- it was fun.
BEHAR: You know, as you`re speaking to me you`re blinding me with your jewels.
MINNELLI: Oh, thank you.
BEHAR: Which happens to be your collection. Is it not? This is very pretty.
MINNELLI: When I had my knee -- I have a new knee. You have to sit still for so long, which I`m not used to.
BEHAR: How long? Months?
MINNELLI: Yes. Couple -- yes. Couple or three months.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
MINNELLI: So I didn`t have anything to do. So they told me to work with, you know, the balls for the muscles. I thought, while I`m working clay, and then I started just molding things and I started to design stuff.
BEHAR: Those are very pretty.
MINNELLI: I did these and this.
BEHAR: Delightful.
MINNELLI: Again, all the influences that I`ve had. It`s, again, my dad. It`s New York City. It`s whatever happens.
BEHAR: It is. It`s beautiful. I think you`re going to be selling --
MINNELLI: I have a present for you.
BEHAR: You want to give it to me now or later?
MINNELLI: Yes, I do.
BEHAR: Oh, thank you, that`s beautiful, thank you very much.
MINNELLI: Isn`t that pretty?
BEHAR: Yes. Thank you so much for joining me tonight, Liza do. It`s a pleasure -
MINNELLI: Oh honey.
BEHAR: And a treat to have you here, delightful to have you here. These are good. Love. OK.
MINNELLI: Oh that`s pretty.
BEHAR: And be sure to get tickets for Liza`s upcoming nationwide tour beginning -
MINNELLI: I`ll give to this to you after.
BEHAR: June 5th through December 4th and check out the Liza collection debuting on HSN, June 30th and her new album too, "Confessions" is out this September. You are a busy, busy woman. Good night, and good night, Liza. Thank you so much.
MINNELLI: Thanks Joy.
BEHAR: And good night everybody out there.
MINNELLI: Good night everyone.
END
