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Joy Behar Page
Gary Coleman Dead at 42; Susie Q & A
Aired June 01, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Gary Coleman didn`t speak to his parents for years. But in the aftermath of his death, they`re speaking out. They want to know the circumstances surrounding his death. We`ll look into the story.
Then, guess who will be here tonight. Here`s a clue. She is known for her foul mouth and hostile demeanor. No, not Betty White. It`s "Curb Your Enthusiasm`s" Susie Essman.
And Sarah Ferguson told Oprah she was drunk when she tried to sell access to Prince Andrew. You know, I believe her. If she was sober, she would have sold access to Prince Charles, right?
That and more right now.
Former child star Gary Coleman died this weekend from brain injuries suffered after a fall. His estranged parents have questions about the fall but neither the police nor his wife has provided any answers.
With me are Shavar Ross who played Dudley on "Diff`rent Strokes"; Laura Saltman, correspondent for accesshollywood.com; and Dr. Keith Black, neurosurgeon and author of "Brain Surgeon: the book".
Dr. Black, why aren`t the police releasing information on how Gary fell?
DR. KEITH BLACK, NEUROSURGEON: Well, one of the things that we respect is patients` rights and privacy so if the patient or their immediate family feel that they do not want to release medical information, then they have the right to do so.
What happened if any patient comes into a hospital and then dies within a day or two or three days, the coroner will actually review the medical records and will make a determination whether or not they would want an autopsy done or whether they would want a further review of the medical evidence within the case.
BEHAR: Well, but even though he`s estranged from his parents, don`t they have the right to have this information? They`re his parents.
DR. BLACK: Well, I think the immediate authority would go to the wife.
BEHAR: To the wife?
DR. BLACK: Correct.
BEHAR: Well, she might have the information but she is not talking to the parents.
Do you -- is there anything -- Laura, let me ask you a question. Does anything around his death seem suspicious?
LAURA SALTMAN, ACCESSHOLLYWOOD.COM: You know, I don`t think so because prior to this he had had two seizures back, you know, starting in January. I don`t think there`s anything suspicious. I don`t think the wife had anything to do with it. I do think it was a simple case of he had just had dialysis, he fell, and something happened. So I don`t think it`s suspicious at all.
BEHAR: You don`t?
Well, Dr. Black, how can the police tell if the fall was accidental or if someone pushed him? There`s no way of knowing that, right?
DR. BLACK: That is correct. It would be somewhat difficult to determine that based on a review of the medical information.
BEHAR: Ok. But, you know, the other thing is that Gary had a lot of issues. He had kidney problems, he had seizures. Do you think in your medical expertise that this had anything to do with what could have happened to him? In other words could those things have contributed to what happened to him after he fell?
DR. BLACK: Yes, there certainly is the possibility. The information that we`re being told is that he had just arrived back from dialysis, felt weak, fell and, you know, that fall could have been related to a seizure, could have been related to feeling dizzy and if one is on dialysis there`s a risk of having increased risk of bleeding because his blood may not have been able to clot as well which could have contributed to the risk of bleeding if he fell. Those are all possibilities.
BEHAR: I see. It`s sort of -- is it anything like Natasha Richardson, what happened to her? She was -- she had a skiing accident. She hit her head. She seemed ok and then she passed away after that. He seemed all right for a little while, too, and then he died. Is it similar?
DR. BLACK: Well, based on information we have, it sounds very similar. He had a fall. We know that he had a bleed. It sounds like he was somewhat unresponsive when he was brought initially into the hospital, got somewhat better but then got worse again. So it certainly sounds like he may have had the clot bleeding getting larger causing more brain injury and ultimately coma and brain death.
BEHAR: Ok. All right. Now Todd Bridges was on my show in March. Listen to what he said about Gary`s parents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD BRIDGES, FORMER CHILD ACTOR: The story is completely different too, it has a whole different twist to it. His parents made him work when he was deathly ill. This is why he hates the thought of "Diff`rent Strokes". I mean I remember being on the set when he was throwing up rejecting a kidney and his parents would make him work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Shavar, is that true?
SHAVAR ROSS, FORMER CHILD ACTOR: You know, I have a slightly different perspective of that. I think Todd saw a lot more than I did, of course. I did about seven out of 13 shows. I was there many times when he was -- during his dialysis. I mean was in private areas to where I was shocked that I was even there at such a young age but it was such an intimate setting.
But I really didn`t see a lot of anger within the family, within Gary`s family at that time.
BEHAR: Well, he`s saying that his parents would make him work even though he was throwing up, rejecting a kidney.
ROSS: Well, it`s still a business. Ratings were high at the time.
BEHAR: Wow.
ROSS: He was a sick kid, but at the same time he enjoyed working. Maybe later on he may have had different feelings towards the show. But for the most part during the time that I was there, and I did the last show. I didn`t see any force per se.
It was, you know, they loved Gary. So it`s hard for me to say that. But at the same time I can`t say that Todd is not correct either.
From my perspective, I slept over at his house. I didn`t see any, you know, "You`ve got to do this. You`ve got to do that." They were loving parents.
BEHAR: Well, in 1989 Gary sued his parents because he claimed that they stole his money.
ROSS: Well, yes, that`s true. That`s true. But the only thing about that is that you have mismanaged money. A lot of former child actors, you know, their money is mismanaged. We have to do something with the money, so what do we do? We set up corporations.
You know, when a child is making so much money at that age, people are ignorant. And I hate to say that. I`m saying that in the nicest sense of the word. But I don`t think they maliciously just said, you know what, we`re taking Gary`s money. I just can`t picture that. These were hard-working people.
BEHAR: Yes. They were just incompetent maybe. Is that what you`re saying?
ROSS: Obviously because he won --
BEHAR: Or just unknowledgeable.
ROSS: -- he won the case.
BEHAR: Yes.
ROSS: He won the case.
BEHAR: He did. He won the case and he won by $1.3 million -- he won $1.3 million in the ruling.
But do you think, Shavar, that was the only reason he was estranged from his parents because of the money or was there something else?
ROSS: No. Gary found out he was adopted. He played an adopted child on television. That was the -- that did it. That was the dagger. That`s why he was so frustrated with his parents. He found out he was adopted.
BEHAR: Wow. How old was he?
ROSS: Nobody talks about that.
BEHAR: Well, let`s talk about it. How old was he when he found out?
ROSS: I`m not exactly sure, but I knew he knew and I`m sure it`s in the documents there. For the most part that was the crushing blow. He felt his parents betrayed him and he always kept that inside of him. Perhaps maybe that`s why he pursued the financial -- the court case against them.
BEHAR: I see. So he was an older boy when they told him that he was adopted and you think that made him angry and estranged from them?
ROSS: Yes. I`m not sure how he found out.
BEHAR: I thought that parents -- adoptive parents were supposed to be telling their children when they`re little that this happened.
Karl Rove, you know, he wrote a book. And he found out he was adopted when he was 17 years old. Some people wait and then it`s bad.
Now he also -- Gary also said something about the money situation. He said, quote, "I`m still bitter about it. It still hurts. It still hurts. You do midget mascots to pay the mortgage."
Laura, you can tell this guy was in a lot of pain, wasn`t he?
SALTMAN: Absolutely. Joy, I interviewed him several times over the years and we had done some segments for different shows. And, you know, he was a very honest guy and he would basically say to me, you know I`m just doing this for the money. That was kind of all he cared about.
He kind of would take whatever was thrown his way because he needed the money at that time. This is probably about six or seven years ago.
And, look, I don`t like to speak bad about people especially after they pass, but he was a really bitter guy. He had a lot of anger issues. He was very mean to people.
And I think one of his biggest problems going forward with his life is what a lot of child actors deal with. They don`t want to be typecast and known for one role. And he`s even said to us in interviews that when his fans would come up to him and ask him to say, "What you talking about, Willis," he would get physically mad, angry at them, because he just didn`t want to be seen that way. And it`s something that he could just never, ever move past, and I think he held on to that for his whole life.
BEHAR: Yes. He had some anger issues with the wife also.
SALTMAN: Absolutely.
BEHAR: They went on divorce court together and all that but he often showed his anger.
Watch this fight with Lisa Bloom on "The Insider". Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY COLEMAN, FORMER CHILD ACTOR: I don`t know you and I don`t care about you -- it doesn`t matter to me.
(CROSSTALK)
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Let me tell you --
COLEMAN: Get hit by a bus tonight --
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Hey, hey --
COLEMAN: I`m not going to care because she`s pushing my buttons and I don`t like her now and the next thing I`m going to do is leave. So (EXPLETIVE DELETED) all of you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. So he got mad at Lisa Bloom. Shavar, did he seem to have anger issues when you knew him?
ROSS: I think he was -- I`ve seen Gary 13 or 14 years old fire people on the set.
BEHAR: Really?
ROSS: Literally. At that time Gary was -- he was, I don`t want to say a God, but he was like that. And he had that control from the beginning. And he thought that probably perhaps he can still do that after the show was cancelled in `86 and he couldn`t do it.
BEHAR: Yes.
ROSS: And that hurt him. So he lashed out.
BEHAR: Yes.
ROSS: And that`s where we`re at with that, you know.
BEHAR: He was an unhappy -- unhappy guy, I think.
SALTMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: Dr. Black, Coleman couldn`t -- he didn`t grow. I mean, you`re a surgeon. I would think that you must have cases like this where there`s a physical problem and it causes people to become bitter. Not everybody can handle it, right?
BLACK: You know, absolutely. I mean, that the reason he didn`t grow is because of his kidney disease and kidney failure.
But, you know, even without all of the other difficulties, just the amount of stress that one would have to go through, going through multiple kidney transplants, dialysis, the other health issues; you could understand how he would have a lot of stress that one would have a lot of sympathies for him to deal with.
BEHAR: Yes. Very difficult. Shavar, just before we go, tell me how will you remember Gary?
ROSS: I always thought he was a genius and I always -- I always believed that and I always will. I just wish that somehow Gary could have just embraced it, have you know, embraced the "What you talking about?"
BEHAR: Yes.
ROSS: You know because had he done that, Hollywood would have been there for him, and they look out for their own.
BEHAR: Yes.
ROSS: It doesn`t matter how old you are. If he would just embrace it and that`s all his fans wanted and I think he`s -- look, on to the next one.
BEHAR: Ok, thanks very much you guys.
SALTMAN: Thanks Joy.
BEHAR: Thanks very much. Ok, up next former "Tonight Show" bandleader Kevin Eubanks will be here to talk about life after Leno.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: You know, other than the octo-mom`s Christmas list few things run longer than Kevin Eubanks` gig, as band leader on the "Tonight Show with Jay Leno". He began with the show in 1992 as bandleader from 1995 until this past Friday.
Joining me now is a musician and former "Tonight Show" bandleader Kevin Eubanks. Hey Kevin.
KEVIN EUBANKS, FORMER "TONIGHT SHOW" BANDLEADER: Hi Joy, how are you?
BEHAR: Now you left because --
EUBANKS: Because it was 18 years and I wanted to kind of just see the world again. I want to travel again and play some music again.
BEHAR: Do your thing?
EUBANKS: Yes, you know.
BEHAR: Aren`t you going to miss the paycheck? I mean, that was a regular check. I`m sure you made some nice cash over there.
EUBANKS: Yes, I cried about two days, like really hard, over the money.
BEHAR: Yes.
EUBANKS: And then --
BEHAR: That`s got to hurt.
EUBANKS: But, you know, let`s pick ourselves up and leave mom`s house and go back.
BEHAR: Yes. Tell me what you`re going to miss about the show the most.
EUBANKS: The most are the people that I see every day, the people in makeup, the security guards, my wardrobe --
BEHAR: Your pals.
EUBANKS: We`ve become really good, close friends.
BEHAR: Sure.
EUBANKS: And of course just everybody you work with every day.
BEHAR: How about Jay? Will you miss Jay?
EUBANKS: Of course. I was getting to that.
BEHAR: You were leaving the biggest for last.
EUBANKS: I was building.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, why is there anything you won`t miss?
EUBANKS: Sure, five days a week, 46 weeks a year for 18 years. I didn`t miss one day of work either.
So I mean I just need to sit back. I just need a different pace in my life.
BEHAR: See it`s interesting, you do 46 weeks a year.
EUBANKS: Yes.
BEHAR: You know my two shows are like that, we don`t have like syndicated shows, they get months off.
EUBANKS: Right, right.
BEHAR: It`s a little different.
EUBANKS: Yes.
BEHAR: The grind is daily, yes.
EUBANKS: And it`s very topical and the whole thing and Jay just loves to work.
BEHAR: He does.
EUBANKS: And so do I. I like to work, too. So that`s why there`s such a nice flow for us because we both really --
BEHAR: Yes.
EUBANKS: -- appreciated the opportunity to work.
BEHAR: But there`s liking to work and there`s Jay Leno.
EUBANKS: Well, well, you know that and I know that.
BEHAR: I mean, I know all about Jay, I mean, he goes -- when I was on the show last -- a couple months ago --
EUBANKS: All right.
BEHAR: It was a Tuesday, I think --
EUBANKS: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: And he`s like, well, he`s going to fly to Las Vegas and do a set that Tuesday night.
EUBANKS: Oh yes.
BEHAR: And then Wednesday he was back, Thursday.
EUBANKS: All right.
BEHAR: Are you off on Fridays at least?
EUBANKS: No, no.
BEHAR: No?
EUBANKS: We --
BEHAR: Oh, boy.
EUBANKS: Now, sometimes people come in and say, come in my dressing room, and will say where are you working this weekend? And it would -- and I like to work, too, so a lot of weekends I was working, but he`s coming and say where are you working this weekend? Are you doing a concert, are you doing a club? And I was just no, Jay, I`m not working this weekend. Oh.
BEHAR: You`re a slacker.
EUBANKS: Like I -- yes he was like, oh. Don`t worry, Jay, it`s not contagious. I mean, it`s all right.
BEHAR: I always talk about his work ethic because he also doesn`t spend any of his money, he told me from "The Tonight Show." He only lives on his stand-up money --
EUBANKS: Yes.
BEHAR: -- which he does every weekend in Vegas --
EUBANKS: Right.
BEHAR: -- and wherever --
EUBANKS: Yes.
BEHAR: -- and he would only -- imagine how much money he`s got stashed and he doesn`t have any kids to leave it to.
EUBANKS: I know. No, no.
BEHAR: Maybe he should leave it to you. That won`t happen. Now that you left, he`ll leave it to Andy Richter.
EUBANKS: Yes, Andy Richter, and hey, if they can`t come by my bar and we`ll have a drink.
BEHAR: Exactly.
Now, tell me about, you know, we`ve covered the story a lot on this show --
EUBANKS: Right.
BEHAR: -- because when Letterman and Conan and Jay, what was it like to be in the middle of that?
EUBANKS: Oh, it was -- what we tried to do -- what I tried to do was just stay focused on work because my commute everyday was exactly the same hours. When I came to work, I had to do exactly the same thing. When they showed it from 11:30 to 10:00, made all the difference in the world obviously. But my routine was exactly the same.
BEHAR: Right.
EUBANKS: My work hours, what I had to do.
BEHAR: Well, because you tape the show at the same hour, is that why?
EUBANKS: Right, we tape it at the same hour --
BEHAR: Yes.
EUBANKS: -- we`re just in a different studio and all of that. So you try to just tell yourself, no, it`s just another work day, you just go do the same work day.
But something was just slightly different. It wasn`t, you know, people are just, we were walking a little bit heavier because it`s on the news, it`s on the news --
BEHAR: Yes.
EUBANKS: -- the whole thing and everything was -- and everything was kind of not exactly the same.
BEHAR: Yes.
EUBANKS: So you bury yourself in your work and you just keep doing it. And then in retrospect when you go, you start thinking about it later you go, well, maybe this happened because of the pressure that we were facing or this happened because of this --
BEHAR: Yes.
EUBANKS: -- that and the other. So I don`t think you go through that whole thing not being fazed by it at all.
BEHAR: You have to be.
EUBANKS: But you -- you still try and just keep your work ethic in place.
BEHAR: Right.
EUBANKS: And do as good a show as you can no matter what the circumstance.
BEHAR: Well, that`s -- that`s good that you did that like that because you have your own career and you have your own things that you want to do.
EUBANKS: Yes and it`s not like I`m going to call up Jeff Zuckerman (ph) and say, here is my idea. Who is that who just called me? Kevin who?
BEHAR: He knows who you are, Kevin. You were very popular. You were in a very important part of the show.
EUBANKS: Oh well, thank you.
BEHAR: And you`re a great musician. So I presume that your next -- to continue playing your guitar.
EUBANKS: I want to play and record and I want to help younger people that have this crazy idea that they can get into music and the arts.
BEHAR: And what about this cooking show you want to do?
EUBANKS: Yes, this has kind of grown on me. I started -- my famous wardrobe person, Myleth (ph). She is doing my clothing and I see her eating a snack and I was like, what are you eating that for?
BEHAR: Yes.
EUBANKS: And she`s like, do you have anything better? And I go, yes. So well, bring me some food. You know, so I got kind of bringing of food, just like that. So I bring her some food. She said, this is really good, I`m going to have to take this to my mother to see what she thinks.
Her mother goes, bring me more of that. So I brought her some chilly, I brought her this and I made some sweet potato pie and all that thing -- and I started cooking for friends and then everybody --
BEHAR: So now you want to be on the Food Network?
EUBANKS: Maybe. We`re not rushing into this yet.
BEHAR: You know, a guitar playing chef. We haven`t seen that. I love that.
EUBANKS: We haven`t seen that yet. I wonder why.
BEHAR: Thanks so much, Kevin, for dropping by. Appreciate it so much.
UM1: Thank you.
BEHAR: Good luck. I know you`ll be great at whatever you do.
UM1: Well, thank you.
BEHAR: We`ll be back in a minute.
I know you will because you`re an original.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSIE ESSMAN, COMEDIAN: Is there any worse offense, Jerry, than not having a lock on a guest bathroom?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was a terrible, a terrible faux pas, a social faux pa pas to have people over and a guest bathroom with no lock.
ESSMAN: You have to put a guard there, you put a paper weight or something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know, some artists paint pictures with words. Robert Frost, Maya Angelou, Stephen Sondheim my pal Susie Essman, who I like to think of as the Georgia O`Keefe of the "F" word.
Susie is hosting TV Guide`s "Curb Your Enthusiasm: the discussion" airing June 2nd.
So welcome Susie to my show.
ESSMAN: I have a gift, Joy.
BEHAR: I like how it sounds, "Curb Your Enthusiasm: the discussion". What`s the discussion?
ESSMAN: The discussion is, it`s actually, I wish we were shooting in New York because I want you to be one of the panelists.
BEHAR: You`re not in New York at all?
ESSMAN: No, we`re shooting all of them in L.A. Now that we`re syndicated on TV Guide Network, Wednesdays at 10:00 p.m., the show is being stretched to an hour so we have to add content because they`re not editing the content of the show and they`re adding commercials.
So we`re having a panel discussion on the moral and ethical implications of Larry`s behavior for each episode, and we have great guests. We have, you know, Gloria Allred and Dr. Drew Pinsky and then comedians like Larry Miller and Jerry Seinfeld and Joe Scarborough and Mika Brezinski. And, you know, news people and just, you know, D.L. Huguely and great people --
BEHAR: And they just dissect Larry David`s behavior.
ESSMAN: Exactly.
BEHAR: Which a lot of it is deplorable as a character.
ESSMAN: You know what`s interesting. But what`s interesting is, you know, my character Susie Greene is always against Larry. Yes, as Susie Essman, as I dissect it, I agree with him a lot of the times.
BEHAR: Is that so?
ESSMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: Like when he urinated on the picture of Jesus or whatever it was?
ESSMAN: Well, no. He didn`t do that. Don`t spread rumors.
BEHAR: What did he do?
ESSMAN: It splashed. He was urinating and it splashed.
BEHAR: What part in that do you agree with?
ESSMAN: We haven`t done that episode yet. A lot of the times, a lot of what Larry does is, he sticks his nose --
BEHAR: Foot in his mouth.
ESSMAN: No. The social mores that we all adhere to, he says, "No, I`m not giving in to this."
You can leave a party before the dessert is served. You know, these kinds of really important issues. Some of it`s ethic, some of it`s just silly stuff and some of it, I mean, we had this great discussion with D.L. Huguely about affirmative action. Larry does a lot of stuff about race, a lot of stuff about the handicapped. He takes on --
BEHAR: He does. He pushes the envelope. But he does get in trouble plenty.
ESSMAN: Yes, and he doesn`t care.
BEHAR: No. He doesn`t care at all. It doesn`t bother him.
ESSMAN: He never thinks I shouldn`t do this because this is going to offend or upset anybody. He never censors himself like that.
BEHAR: But didn`t he get in trouble with the Orthodox Jews one time?
ESSMAN: They didn`t like the ski lift episode where he`s pretending to be Orthodox so he could get a kidney for Richard Lewis (ph) and I had to pretend to be his wife.
Stated like that, you could say -- that was one of my favorite episodes. They felt he was ridiculing orthodoxy and in a sense he was, but he doesn`t care.
First of all, you know his bottom line. If it`s funny, it`s funny. He doesn`t care about anything other than it being funny.
BEHAR: Right. That`s true. I also liked it when he did the "Survivor" episode. He must have gotten in trouble for that.
ESSMAN: Well, I don`t think so because I think that he was taking the side of the Holocaust survivors. He was ridiculing the "Survivor" TV show and their insipid vapidness.
BEHAR: He`s really on the right side of things so I can understand why you would be on his side.
ESSMAN: Most of the time he is.
BEHAR: So stay right there. I want to get your take on some pop culture dish when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Sarah Ferguson claims she was drinking when she got caught shaking someone down on camera. Where were her people in all this? Don`t they know that friends don`t let friends influence pedal drunk? Look at what she told Oprah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH FERGUSON, PRINCESS: I haven`t faced the devil in the face because I was in the gutter at that moment. So I know -- I know exactly I know - I am aware of the fact I had been drinking, you know, that he was not in my right face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. Back with me to discuss this and other stories is the fabulous Susie Essman, actress and comedian, and joining us Joe Levy editor in chief of "Maxim" magazine. You know Joe, she told Oprah she had been drinking. Is this the Mel Gibson defense now?
JOE LEVY, EDITOR IN CHIEF, MAXIM: You know, I wish that she had been -- no. I don`t know what it is. It`s ridiculous. She went to dinner with the guy. They ordered very expensive wine. Yes, she was drinking. Then she went back to his room and put a price on what it would take to meet her ex-husband, at have a conversation. She would be the go-between. Is $40,000 opens doors.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEVY: That is the most expensive butler in the world.
BEHAR: At least she didn`t say any Anti-Semitic things.
SUSIE ESSMAN, ACTESS/COMEDIAN: You know what, no, but no good can come from marrying one of those boys.
BEHAR: Really? Why?
ESSMAN: Because look -- look what happens to Sarah and Diana. It`s not a good family to be a part of.
BEAHR: Because the queen is a witch.
ESSMAN: I saw that Helen Heirum (ph) version and it wasn`t pretty.
BEHAR: Yes you know, it`s funny. I asked Helen Heirum(ph) when he was on my other show, I said to her, do you think the queen was jealous of Diana? Oh, no. She wasn`t jealous of Diana. Yes, she was.
ESSMAN: Yes, she was.
BEHAR: It`s funny how an actress won`t cop to it because she has to like the queen.
ESSMAN: And if she played Hitler, she`d like him.
BEHAR: Exactly. OK in this Sting video, Fergie was giving $40,000 -- she revealed who that money was for on "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW" earlier today, watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FERGUSON: I needed -- a friend of mine need $38,000 urgently so he had said I will give you that $38,000 for my friend and that`s why I needed the money urgently for my friend and so I was crying and I thanked him so much for helping my friend, and he knew the friend. Knew of the friend. And I --
OPRAH WINFREY, HOST OPRAH WINFREY SHOW: And that`s the moment we agreed to -- we heard $40,000. Was it $40,000 or $38,000?
FERGUSON: Well it was $40,000.
WINFREY: OK.
FERGUSON: It was $40,000 and $38,000. But he gave me $38,000 but that was all going to my friend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Forty, thrity-eight -- who is counting?
ESSMAN: Was it a sex change operation? What`s $38,000?
BEHAR: Do you buy that she got the money for the friend? She wanted the money for the friend?
ESSMAN: No. An issue about this is why does she only get $20,000 a year in alimony?
BEHAR: That`s right.
LEVY: Is that all she gets is 20 grand? Really?
BEHAR: That`s all.
ESSMAN: And they are so rich, that family. They`re like the richest family in the world.
BEHAR: Well you know au contraire, the queen is asking for a raise right now. She gets about $8 million from taxpayers to maintain her castles and stuff. She wants I think $11 million, something like that.
ESSMAN: The moat alone is a couple million to fill and refill. You got to get the pool boy in there.
BEHAR: But Joe, don`t you think the English are in trouble financially just like the rest of the world right now.
LEVY: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s not a good time.
LEVY: No, it`s not and we should have a fund-raiser, have some sort of live aid for both the queen and for Fergie, you know. And I think, also, that Fergie from the Black-Eyed Peas should have to give money, pay money on the trademark on the name and she`ll get more than 20 grand. That`s who she should be getting money from.
ESSMAN: But they actually, the royal family owns real estate like beyond, like Rockefeller Center -- not that but something like that.
BEHAR: No, those are the Saudis.
ESSMAN: Yes, whatever. They are loaded. Don`t cry for me, you know, Windsor.
BEHAR: That`s right. Now let`s watch this one. Oprah asked Fergie what her ex-husband Andrew said. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FERGUSON: The thing about Andrew and the girls is that they love me unconditionally and Andrew is a man that has always taken a very matter of fact look at everything, and he knows me. And he knows this is really very extraordinary and therefore he reached out with understanding, which makes it much worse for me.
WINFREY: Really?
FERGUSON: Yes, because -- because he`s such a good man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Such a good man.
LEVY: True, true.
BEHAR: Cough up some more besides the $20,000 a year. What`s so good about him?
LEVY: The first $19,000 I think are really generous and then he runs out of gas. I`ve got like a grand more.
BEHAR: Do you think they don`t have money in the family?
ESSMAN: No, they have money, Joy. They have money. It`s a Stockholm syndrome thing, you know. It`s some kind of pathology.
BEHAR: I think she`s enjoying this a little bit. Let`s move on to another story. This one is interesting, too. According to a report in "The New York Daily News," Elizabeth Edwards doesn`t want her husband`s mistress Rielle Hunter taking care of her kids. Can I just say I wouldn`t want her taking care of my puppets. The reports said Elizabeth had exploring the option of having her 28-year-old daughter Kate raise them. Should her health take a turn for the worse? Then she said but this afternoon Elizabeth said that was nonsense. So that story has changed since we heard it this afternoon. Would you want Rielle Hunter taking care of your kids?
ESSMAN: This is a rough story. On the one hand you would not want Rielle, but on the other hand, does she want to burden her 28-year-old daughter with taking care of a 10-year-old --
BEHAR: Ten and twelve or something.
ESSMAN: That`s a lot to ask of a young woman. Isn`t there someone else? An aunt?
BEHAR: How about the father? Why can`t john take care of his own children?
LEVY: Apparently he`s not the best with making good decisions. I`m just saying. Apparently he doesn`t have it all under control and there`s also a whole issue about lying. I think maybe he doesn`t know the difference.
BEHAR: Apparently a philander and a stripper is not necessarily a bad father. I won`t go into perm things.
ESSMAN: Yes.
LEVY: Wow OK.
BEHAR: Let`s leave it alone. OK. So she did reveal, though, that upon their deaths, both of them, I guess, their daughter Kate would become the guardian.
LEVY: Yes but this is not an unusual arrangement. You name a godparent to your children. That person is going to take care of your kids and the unfortunate event that the unthinkable, knock on wood, and she`s a family member.
BEHAR: Right. I don`t think the courts allow it when there`s a father around.
LEVY: Right, should be both.
ESSMAN: You know I feel for her in either situation because she does have breast cancer. She could be dying.
BEHAR: Right.
ESSMAN: When you know you have young children, I think that`s the greatest concern. Who is going to bring my children up?
LEVY: It`s a legitimate concern, Rielle Hunter I don`t want her taking care of my netflix, nothing.
BEHAR: Exactly, exactly, right, now what about this loose story, very sad, that the Tipper and Al Gore are getting a divorce.
ESSMAN: I`m shocked beyond.
BEHAR: Everyone is very -
ESSMAN: They danced on the platform together. They were dancing --
BEHAR: He sucked her lungs out. Remember that kiss? You never know. But 40 years is enough maybe.
LEVY: He`s cheating on her with the environment. The whole planet.
BEHAR: I cannot get over that. Do you think the Bushes could get a divorce?
ESSMAN: Which ones?
BEHAR: No the old ones being forget, they`re -- forget about them.
ESSMAN: Who cares.
BEHAR: But these two, Laura and George W. I mean they seem also -
ESSMAN: What`s fascinating is that Tipper and Al would be getting a divorce yet Hillary and Bill still together.
BEHAR: No, no that`s true because they have a friendship they can never change and they`re political friends, also. They need each other. Tipper, what does she need him for?
ESSMAN: I would bet, this is, I don`t know, speculation. If they`re getting a divorce after 40 years, why get a divorce? Someone else is involved.
BEHAR: I always say that.
ESSMAN: Someone else is involved.
BEHAR: A man never leaves his wife unless there`s another woman waiting. And thank god we never get rid of them. Last Friday - I didn`t mean that. I meant it. No, I didn`t mean it. Last Friday on his radio show Glenn Beck, the avatar of wit decided to mock President Obama`s 11 year old daughter, Malia. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLENN BECK: Daddy, did you plug the hole yet? Daddy?
OBAMA: No, I didn`t, honey.
BECK: I know you`re better than that.
OBAMA: Big country.
BECK: I was wondering, daddy, if you plugged that hole yet.
OBAMA: Honey, not yet.
BECK: Why not, daddy? But daddy --
OBAMA: Not time yet, honey. Hasn`t done enough damage.
BECK: Daddy?
OBAMA: Not enough damage yet, honey.
BECK: Daddy?
OBAMA: Yes?
BECK: why do you hate black people so much?
OBAMA: I`m part white, honey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know, he apologized. I have to say -- why does he make Malia sound like she has asthma?
LEVY: Apparently his little child voice, he picked that up from the creepy older neighbor on "THE FAMILY GUY."
ESSMAN: Yes, exactly.
LEVY: He doesn`t know the difference. And that`s what`s most offensive. Glenn Beck not a good comedian.
BEHAR: That`s a problem.
LEVY: It goes on for six more minutes and goes nowhere.
ESSMAN: Really bad mimic.
BEHAR: The humor gene doesn`t happen.
ESSMAN: Doesn`t happen. And also what happened to that whole Letterman/Sarah Palin thing that you`re not allowed to talk about the kids?
BEHAR: Well that`s why he apologized.
LEVY: Well yes, exactly, he actually on his show about two weeks beforehand told this whole story, James Gandolfini insulted me in front of my young son, called me Satan. You never talk about this in front of the kids.
BEHAR: Well he should have never -
LEVY: Leave the family out of it.
BEHAR: Turn on "THE SOPRANOS." What is he nuts as well as boring? Thank you. Next up, Clay Aiken stops by to discuss "AMERICAN IDOL," coming out and a lot more. So stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I have a soft spot for people who come in second, Nancy Kerrigan, Miss Oklahoma, George W. Bush, and Clay Aiken. He may have been the runner-up on "AMERICAN IDOL" but he`s become a platinum selling recording artist, a father to nearly 2-year-old son Parker, and an advocate for gay rights. His new album "Tried And True" is out today. Please welcome Clay Aiken. Hey, OK. There`s no audience to clap.
CLAY AIKEN, SINGER: I`ll clap for myself.
BEHAR: Not yet, we`ll get an audience just so they can clap for you. Now you know you sing covers of classic hits on this album. I was looking at the run down. Mack the Knife, Unchained Melody.
AIKEN: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: What`s his name, Al Hibler (ph) did that back in the 1950s.
AIKEN: I don`t know who that is.
BEHAR: I know you don`t know who he is because it`s like 100 years - "Suspicious Minds" and "Moon River." Who is your target audience? Andy Rooney?
AIKEN: It`s you, Joy.
BEHAR: Yes it should be me. It`s me. It`s your mother.
AIKEN: It`s not, well you know what, the songs are songs that my mom sang to me when I was a kid, so, yes, they are. I don`t know that I have a target audience. I just wanted to do stuff that was really me and not stuff that -- not being put into a box by somebody else.
BEHAR: No cause I`m only teasing you because look at Michael Bubble, he is doing standards.
AIKEN: We`re trying to steal it from him.
BEHAR: Yes, you know, and even Rod Stewart came back with all kinds of standards although he`s in this target audience like me. You`re going on tour this summer with Ruben Studdard--
AIKEN: With Ruben, yes.
BEHAR: That`s an interesting show. And he just made an appearance on "AMERICAN IDOL." You weren`t there in the finale, why weren`t you there?
AIKEN: I was sick. I was kind of sick. I don`t really know why I wasn`t there to be honest with you.
BEHAR: Maybe because you were runner-up?
AIKEN: Maybe that`s what it was. I haven`t watched "IDOL" in a long time. I haven`t stayed connected to the whole world. I watched it for a while after I got off of it and it just made me nervous. My hands started sweating every time I watched the show.
BEHAR: Yes, it was like a flashback.
AIKEN: Really, I`m like Pavlov`s dog. Must be nervous now for these kids. So I stopped watching and I just haven`t been hardly connected to it.
BEHAR: But you`re not alone. The ratings are down.
AIKEN: That`s because I`m not there anymore.
BEHAR: Do you think they jumped the shot?
AIKEN: I don`t really know, I guess, maybe some people could argue with Paula gone it made a difference.
BEHAR: And with Simon leaving.
AIKEN: Right, I mean he`s the reason, I mean he is I think the catalyst for getting some attention for the show. Because people watched it, he said something nasty, they laugh, OK I`ll keep watching this. So I`m not exactly sure what it will do. I thought it would not do well after Paula was gone.
BEHAR: Well it didn`t do as well.
AIKEN: But it`s still here.
BEHAR: It is still here. We`re talking about a lot of people still watch it. Many, many.
AIKEN: Right.
BEHAR: But they`re talking about Bret Michaels coming in for Simon.
AIKEN: I don`t know what I think about that.
BEHAR: Well he`s a music guy. He`s very charming. People love him.
AIKEN: And he just won "THE APPRENTICE," didn`t he?
BEHAR: Yes, he did, so he`s hot, hot, hot.
AIKEN: I think they have to have somebody who is going to be picky and kind of snide but also lovable. Because the truth is that Simon was somewhat lovable even though he was an (EXPLICATIVE DELETED) Oh, can I say that?
BEHAR: Yes, you can. It`s fine. A lot of people say that. I mean, he`s picky --
AIKEN: My mother is going to love that. That`s my target audience for that word, my mother.
BEHAR: But I think Bret Michaels would be good but don`t they need somebody more acerbic? Bret is a nice guy.
AIKEN: Right I think that`s -
BEHAR: I`d watch it for Simon.
AIKEN: Yes, I think that`s the key, you kind of have to a little sharp. But like I said, he`s still -- people still like Simon. They root for -- they listen to him and he`s the one person who says the things they were thinking. You sounded like my drunk uncle. Oh, my god, that`s right. He did sound like my drunk uncle.
BEHAR: Yes he can be very nasty. I want to show you something, after his final show, Simon says his favorite performance ever was Fantasia`s "Summer Time" but then he said this nasty thing about you, I`m going to show it, I hope you don`t mind. Because I want to hear what you think about that. He said his least favorite was you singing "Grease." I want to -- watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AIKEN: Grease is the time is the place is the motion grease is the way we are feeling grease is the word
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I thought that was a perfectly terrific performance.
AIKEN: I think Simon knows that my self-esteem is high enough. Somebody else may have taken a bunch of pills and he knows he can be mean to me and I`m going to be fine. I did do a little hip shake when I did that performance that looked like a seizure so that could have been --
BEHAR: Maybe he`s not a fan of musicals, theater.
AIKEN: Well, that wasn`t from theater, it was from a movie. They gave us a theme and told us to do songs by. That was Bee Gee`s week. We had to sing stuff by the Bee Gee`s so -- I did what they told me to do. I picked the song. I don`t think he liked the red jacket. That was the problem.
BEHAR: But you still get nervous when you go over there, when you watch it.
AIKEN: When I watch it because the truth is your life is hanging by a thread there that last -- when you`re sitting up on that couch and my hands get sweaty and I`m nervous. I have relieved myself.
BEHAR: Don`t do it here, don`t relieve yourself here.
AIKEN: I stopped watching and I was like, life is okay without watching this show. I`m going to be fine. So I stuck with that.
BEHAR: Yes. What about the criticism when you would get hit with something? That was the worst thing I`ve ever heard or that sort of thing.
AIKEN: I didn`t listen.
BEHAR: Those kids are tough, those kids, that they can take that. When I was that age, I was not able to do it.
AIKEN: I don`t think that -- first of all, I just realized you should be the judge. You should take his place.
AIKEN: I don`t have a musical background doesn`t have a musical background.
BEHAR: But he has been in the music business, has he not?
AIKEN: I don`t think it matters that much though. You have to be sharp and witty. When you`re standing up there you don`t listen.
BEHAR: My opinion, I think a nasty American would get a lot of grief for that part. He only gets away with it --
AIKEN: Because he sounds proper.
BEHAR: Right. All right, Clay, don`t go anywhere. You`re coming right back. We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: And I`m back with Clay Aiken. OK, now, you know, you recently came out to the industry. And everybody applauded you for that and was wonderful. Tell me about that, how hard it was for you to do that.
AIKEN: I don`t think it was very hard. I mean most people who I knew and who I was around already knew anyway and I was not necessarily in the closet. I think the difficult part of it for me was the -- just the truth -- the reality that you have to make that announcement. I mean --
BEHAR: Well you did it on the cover of "People" magazine.
AIKEN: I had a child. I had just had a son. I think there was an elephant in the room, so people - I kind of need to address it at the same time. You know, to me it`s like, I mean, did you come out as straight at any point?
BEHAR: I know, it`s unfortunate.
AIKEN: Having to do that is an issue. Like I said, most everyone I knew, who I worked with knew it was not a secret at all. Just the fact that today it`s still such a news story. I think when it becomes --
BEHAR: Is it really?
AIKEN: Well it`s still on the scroll on CNN when I turn on, so --
BEHAR: What does it say?
AIKEN: Well, not me.
BEHAR: What does it say?
AIKEN: You know, Ricky Martin comes out.
BEHAR: Oh you mean when someone does.
AIKEN: When someone comes out it`s an issue. Right here on the bottom of the screen, I want to see Joy Behar, straight. You know what I mean? Come on, make the announcement. So I think that obviously between from when I was on "IDOL" when I first started doing all this to today there`s been a huge, huge difference and I think it`s evident. I can see in my younger brother and friends -- my younger brother is marine and completely opposite from me and his friends are all very accepting of equality. And I can see through them that, you know --
BEHAR: Things have changed.
AIKEN: We`re definitely changing and getting to a point where it won`t be a big news story anymore. It`s kind of disheartening that when someone does come out and it`s a news story it marginalizes it instead of normalizing it.
BEHAR: I guess that`s the world we live in still. But I mean, what would have happened if you would have come out on "AMERICAN IDOL?" like when you first, when they heard you sing and you were so good -- if you had said, you know, look, I`m gay and I`m out and I want to sing --
AIKEN: Well if I had completely been 100 percent been aware of it at the time maybe we --
BEHAR: Oh you weren`t aware.
AIKEN: I mean I think I was to some extent but wasn`t quite sure. I had known, and back in North Carolina, then I came out to L.A. and L.A.`s a very different environment. I`m like wait a second, you don`t see it where I`m from as much. You don`t know what it looks like. You come out to L.A., you definitely do. You get a little bit measure ore -- the environment is more accepting. So back on "IDOL" I probably wouldn`t be able to because I wasn`t 100 percent sure.
BEHAR: All right. I see. All right I have some questions from your fans out there. From twitter people. "I`ve read you`ve never seen "GLEE." is that true? Why do you think you have to see glee? Because it`s a bunch of gay singers?
AIKEN: I haven`t seen it because I think I`d probably get jealous.
BEHAR: You think so?
AIKEN: If I watched the show I think I`d be jealous, I`m not on there.
BEHAR: You know what, you`d be a great guest on that show. Maybe they`ll --
AIKEN: You call people up and --
BEHAR: Say it right now. Say it.
AIKEN: Call me.
BEHAR: There you go. OK. You`re from North Carolina.
AIKEN: Yes.
BEHAR: And you were raised Southern Baptist. This is from somebody who writes, Southern Baptist. Is it especially important for people like you and Shelley Wright, who is the first openly gay country music start to come out. She was on the show and came out. It was a big thing.
AIKEN: It was a big thing, see what I tell you.
BEHAR: It was a big thing because of country music.
AIKEN: Right.
BEHAR: Oh look, we don`t have time to answer the question. Thank you very much for coming.
AIKEN: Thank you.
BEHAR: I think you`re terrific. OK, Clay Aiken`s new album "Tried And True" is out today. Good night, everybody.
END
