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Joy Behar Page
Weekly Round-up; Celebrity of Crime; Late Night Liars
Aired June 11, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, what makes young murder suspects like Joran Van Der Sloot and Casey Anthony act like reality TV stars? Joy takes you inside the criminal mind.
And it`s a top diva duel as Katy Perry goes after Lady Gaga for using religious symbols in her controversial new video.
Then, the king of the cult classic John Waters stops by to discuss everything from Charles Manson to Levi Johnston, as well as his new book, "Role Models".
All that and more, starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Looks like we have a diva eruption on our hands. It began after Lady Gaga`s racy new video was released this week.
Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(LADY GAGA`S MUSIC VIDEO)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Is it easy to digest rosary beads? I never thought -- well, singer Katy Perry took a look at it and tweeted her outrage.
She wrote this, "Using blasphemy as entertainment is as cheap as a comedian telling a fart joke."
With me to talk about this and other areas of news from the week are Larry Miller, host of the GSN game show, "Late Night Liars"; Heather McDonald, comedian and author of "You`ll Never Blue-ball on this Town again"; and Cheyenne Jackson, Broadway actor and "30 Rock" co-star.
Ok guys, don`t you think -- Heather let me start with you. Isn`t this a little, let`s say, she stole this idea from Madonna.
HEATHER MCDONALD, COMEDIAN: I know. Hello.
BEHAR: We`ve seen this, haven`t we?
MCDONALD: And everyone freaked out when Madonna kissed a black Jesus. I don`t care. You know? And she`s dressed up like a nun. I am Catholic. My kids go to Catholic school. First of all, we barely have any nuns left. And the ones that we do have wear sensible shoes and navy skirt and a white blouse. They`re not in the full whatever habit she had going on, I mean choking the --
BEHAR: She was a pastor`s daughter.
MCDONALD: Katie, right.
BEHAR: Katie was a pastor`s daughter making, you know --
LARRY MILLER, HOST, "LATE NIGHT LIARS": First of all, whatever she might have taken from Madonna, I would like to stand up for Lady Gaga right now and just say, as I recall -- if I recall correctly, Madonna did not have a piece of duct tape on her vagina, ok?
BEHAR: That`s right. You know --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: Call me petty but I think that`s a creative step. This to me is -- it`s a win/win. If she wants to -- this is when we live. We all know this. If she wants to pour holy water over herself and run down the aisle of St. Patrick.
BEHAR: Yes. We don`t care.
MILLER: You know what? And someone else is capable of stepping up.
BEHAR: But it`s a little bit hypocritical, isn`t it? This girl, what`s her name, Perry.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: She has a video that was just released and frosting, ice cream frosting is shooting from her nipples. So I mean -- and she`s also famous for kissing a girl.
MILLER: And your point is --
BEHAR: My point is it`s pot meet kettle.
CHEYENNE JACKSON, ACTOR: She was a -- well, she used to be a Christian singer. She was Katie Hudson. I don`t know if this is all just not cooked up by publicists anyway. It`s all so --
BEHAR: That could be.
MCDONALD: But it`s, you know, with the Lady Gaga, I mean who cares. But basically it`s pretty graphic. She`s being gang-raped by a bunch of gay dancers wearing black spanx.
I mean maybe because they`re so gay, no one thinks it`s bad. I don`t know.
BEHAR: Maybe.
MILLER: How often do you get a chance to say that sentence?
MCDONALD: Only on Joy Behar.
JACKSON: Two times a week.
MILLER: Gang-raped by -- say it again. What? Gang-raped by --
MCDONALD: Gay dancers wearing blank spanx. They`re wearing like spanx, it`s like the oddest outfits -- in fishnets and pumps, the guys are.
MILLER: That trumps the duct tape.
BEHAR: It so happens that California Girl, Perry`s song just landed at number one on the charts.
MCDONALD: It`s a fun song.
BEHAR: Coincidence? I don`t think so.
Ok, next story. Moving on, Snooki -- remember Snooki?
MCDONALD: Absolutely.
BEHAR: From the "Jersey Shore". Well, she slammed President Obama in the new season of MTV`s "Jersey Shore". listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s it. That`s perfect.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t go tanning, tanning anymore because Obama put a 10 percent tax on tanning. And I feel like he did that intentionally for us. McCain would never put a 10 percent tax on tanning. Because (INAUDIBLE), he would probably want to be tanned.
Taxes were raised on tanning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: She`s brilliant. But it gets better. Because McCain responded to Snooki on Twitter and he tweeted, "Snooki, you are right, I would never tax your tanning bed. President Obama`s tax/spend policy is quite the situation but I do rec, I guess recommend, wearing sunscreen."
I just love discourse between two political heavyweights, don`t you, Larry?
MILLER: I just don`t know when John McCain became hipper than me by tweeting. I don`t know what -- how could that be? How could he pass by anybody on this panel?
BEHAR: Which is more shocking that McCain knows Snooki or that Snooki knows McCain? What do you think?
MCDONALD: I think that he knows Snooki. And I`m hoping that it was a young aide that fills him in and he`s not as much of a loser as I am and actually watch these shows because that`s a little scary.
But I actually love the tax on the tanning. It`s like my favorite thing that Obama has done. Because it really is important and I want to start a program kind of like scared straight. It`s called scared pale. I go to high schools and bring "Real Housewives" from Orange County and show them what it looks like when you don`t use sunscreen and when you do tanning bed and you have like ridiculous sun damage. I think that`s really important.
JACKSON: She says she`s not tanning anymore. But it`s clearly still so on her mind. I just hosted the MTV Logo Awards two days ago in Los Angeles airing on actually on the 17th on Logo.
Anyway, she was on the Red Carpet, and she standing there very, very tan and she was standing next to my friend George who is one of the heads of MTV, happens to be African-American. I swear to God she looks at him and she goes, "Oh, my God, I need to go tanning."
BEHAR: What is the matter with her?
JACKSON: I`m just saying.
BEHAR: What is wrong with her?
MILLER: By the way, I would just like to see the -- I would like to see the tax made retroactive just to see the look on George Hamilton`s face when he realizes the bill that`s coming his way.
BEHAR: How about what Congressman Boehner, that guy with his tan.
Ok, next story.
Elton John performed at Rush Limbaugh`s 4th wedding for a fee of $1 million. You know they say before you marry someone who`s been married before, you should talk to the previous wife.
In this case, there were four of them. Who has that kind of time? So my question to you, all three, because you`re all performers, would you do that, would you perform at Rush Limbaugh`s wedding?
MCDONALD: Absolutely. For $1 million?
BEHAR: Yes.
MCDONALD: I`ll do it for like a grand and few appetizers at this point.
BEHAR: You`re very cheap.
MCDONALD: I`m being honest. I have kids to put through school. And obviously, Elton has a lot of sun glasses to buy. You know what, sometimes anyone can be paid.
BEHAR: What about you, Larry, you`d do it in a heartbeat?
MILLER: You know what? When we were baby comics at the clubs somebody called me -- somebody had seen the show and came up tome and said there`s a group of 12 Arab businessmen, sheikhs with robes and they get together twice a year with their girlfriends. And this time they rented an apartment on Fifth avenue, put art objects in it.
This is no kidding. Justin called me about six months. They wanted to hire a Jewish comedian to insult them. And there was 12 guys and to show you by the way, how weird we can be, this is perfect for comics. My reaction wasn`t why is it so deep? Why is it can`t we get along? Why does it have to be that?
My first reaction was, I don`t do insult stuff. You know?
(CROSSTALK)
MCDONALD: How am I going to write this?
MILLER: I thought Rickles was a star. I just do these word pictures about dating.
BEHAR: You were thinking only of the craft.
MILLER: Right, I was thinking just -- you know, I don`t think they`d like my stuff; maybe if they came and saw a set.
BEHAR: You know Beyonce once performed for Gadhafi`s son for a reported $2 million. We sort of commented on that. They were annoyed with our commenting on it. Because it`s like -- you know, they are performers. They`re going to perform for whoever they want.
JACKSON: It happens all the time in this business. They`re just strange bedfellows. I mean I was teasing my friend Michael Feinstein who has performed -- he`s a huge gay advocate and has performed for both George Bushes and has Nancy Reagan on speed dial. There`s just as many times -- I love Elton John. I did "Aida" with him on Broadway. I mean --
MCDONALD: Maybe Rush Limbaugh doesn`t want him to get married but he does want to hear him sing and dance to it.
BEHAR: I know. You don`t have to agree with the President. Just give me the check.
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: -- his husband, was probably there, too. Which is a statement in and of itself.
MILLER: You know what? A quick note on that though, maybe at a certain level of stardom in any field people are more the same than we think. We observe them making decisions and acting a certain way but maybe in any business, to be as high as Elton John is and as high as Rush Limbaugh is, maybe they`re actually pals in a way. I don`t know.
BEHAR: I don`t know about that.
Debrahlee Lorenzana, another one, a former banker is suing Citibank claiming she was wrongly fired for being too sexy. Then this video surfaced showing her getting breast implants in the Discovery Health Channel series. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEBRAHLEE LORENZANA, FIRED FROM CITIBANK FOR BEING TOO SEXY: The size I`m hoping to get is more like a Double D, 32 Double D.
A huge Double D.
Very perky. Big breasts.
I want to look like a Playboy playmate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Why does she talk like that? She wants some of the Citibank bailout money. She wants some of that. She says her breasts are too big to fail.
Have any of you ever had this problem where you`re too sexy for your job? You have, I know, Larry.
MILLER: Every day.
BEHAR: I know. It`s such a curse. You`ll get through it.
MILLER: Whatever happened to bankers who look like Mr. Albright on "My Little Margie"? You know, where they had --
BEHAR: Wow, that really -- that went back to like the last century. Holy mackerel. "My Little Margie"?
We need to go to the museum of broadcasting for that one.
MCDONALD: I just feel like this just proves how -- this just feels really the whole, her whole life is calculated, you know.
BEHAR: Yes.
MCDONALD: I just feel like it was totally calculated. Like she went, she wanted this to happen so that she could sue that she could get in the news and the next thing you know, she`s going to have a reality show, be in "Playboy" and what`s it like to be a single mom and try to be a banker. Like and we`ve all seen this.
BEHAR: Well, do you think that we should be sympathetic to her? Because I mean, in a way it`s like, you know, she should be allowed to dress anyway she wants --
MCDONALD: Right.
BEHAR: -- and have the biggest boobs that she wants to have and these men should be in control of their hormones for God`s sake. Right?
JACKSON: No, absolutely I agree. But I also, I agree here I just think that -- now I lost my train of thought with the double D`s.
(CROSSTALK)
MCDONALD: That this is orchestrated, that it`s like she orchestrated the whole thing. Yes.
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: Yes, no in a way I questioned her motive when she said, did she really, did she really want to work at Citibank right now? No. She wants to be in "Playboy". And that`s the thing --
BEHAR: Last word, Larry, I`ve got to go.
MILLER: I like to think I know something about breasts.
BEHAR: Ok.
MILLER: I`d like to think I have, some -- some strong feeling in this regard. And all I want to say is, if I just wish I still had a regular checking account. And --
BEHAR: So that you could go there and huddle.
LARRY: And just get online, no I`m waiting for the next teller.
BEHAR: Well, thanks guys, that was very illuminating.
We`ll be back after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Accused killers used to make the perk walks with coats hiding their handcuffs and their heads bowed in shame. But today they seem to parade in front of the cameras as though they are ready to be on a reality TV show.
With me to discuss this phenomenon is Rita Cosby, Emmy-award winning journalist and New York Times best-selling author of "A Quiet Hero" and Pat Brown criminal profiler and author of "The Profiler", a perfect name for your book.
Van Der Sloot has been globetrotting and acting like he`s a TV star, this guy. I mean, he went to -- in Peru, he tried to participate in a poker tournament. In Thailand he hinted on camera that he wouldn`t mind getting into the sex trafficking business. And he joked that he sold Natalee Holloway as a sex slave. And in Holland he confessed on camera to dumping Holloway at sea.
All this kind of bravado and disregard for what`s -- or how he looked. What do you make of that?
RITA COSBY, AUTHOR, "QUIET HERO": You know, I think it`s very symptomatic and classic of this kind of mind-set. I mean, I`ve interviewed a lot of people and I spent time in fact on this particularly case. I was down in Aruba a lot, Joy. And it doesn`t surprise me.
It`s this arrogance about them. And it`s a sense of I can sort of be smarter than everybody else. I can always get away with it. I`m sort of the superstar and they love this attention.
I think back about to Scott Peterson. Remember -- the Laci Peterson case.
BEHAR: Another one. Yes, yes.
COSBY: And I remember, he loved the attention of the press. He love the news -- he was going around bragging oh Rita`s calling me, so and so is calling me and so and so.
BEHAR: Right.
COSBY: It`s just I can`t get enough of the camera and I can`t get enough of this moment. It`s this sort of sick compartmentalization I think, psychologically, "Oh, I can get away with anything else because I`m better and smarter than everybody else."
BEHAR: Ok, Pat do you think it has something to do with the fact that he did get away with the Holloway case in Aruba for such a long time?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well --
BEHAR: In his particular case.
BROWN: Well, he`s a classic -- he`s a classic psychopath. Extremely narcissistic, everything is about Joran, Joran, Joran. And he has gotten away with the Natalee case. And he knows he`s not going to probably ever be charged with anything there. So he was enjoying going around the world and smirking about it.
And in this particular instance, one of the reasons I know this wasn`t premeditated was he was so stupid in bringing the girl back to his hotel room and killing her there, that -- that you know, he wasn`t planning this as some kind of big reality show thing.
He just got so arrogant, he just didn`t think you know, anything was ever going to catch up with him, but now it has.
BEHAR: Yes, but I mean, it`s not just him. As you mentioned Scott Peterson. Amanda Knox, this girl in Italy --
BROWN: Yes.
BEHAR: -- who is dancing and carrying on, cart-wheeling in the police station.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: She was cart-wheeling at the police station, it`s incredible, Joy.
BEHAR: Yes, I mean, I know and then there is Casey Anthony, the girl, that woman who is accused of killing her own child.
COSBY: Right.
BEHAR: Partying and out there partying.
I mean, you`ve seen people, both of you know about people like this. Are they -- these are my thoughts. Are they exhibitionistic? Yes. Are they self-destructive?
COSBY: No.
BEHAR: I don`t know.
COSBY: No.
BEHAR: Are they sociopathic.
BROWN: No, I don`t think so.
COSBY: No, I think they`re --
BEHAR: Yes.
COSBY: They`re preservationists. They`re not self-destructive. I think they don`t mind destroying everybody else --
BEHAR: Yes.
COSBY: -- but themselves. I think they`re incredibly selfish.
BEHAR: But the -- but the behavior almost begs people to find them and go after them.
BROWN: They`re not to -- they`re not trying to get caught.
COSBY: Yes I agree with Pat.
BROWN: They never try to get caught. They just think they`re so smart. They think -- they are so used to manipulating people and getting away with things. And they do it for quite a long time that they just never think that anybody is actually -- actually -- catch -- you know be able to get over on them. I mean, this is their whole -- their whole M.O.
But no, they never want to get caught. Every time somebody says that, like, well, the reason that Joran Van Der Sloot took her back to his room was because he really wanted to get caught and put away because he felt so bad about Natalee.
No, the guy is a psychopath. He has zero empathy for Natalee. We could see when he was talking about it, he called her kinds of names. He blamed her for the whole thing, he hates Natalee and he hates her family. So there`s no empathy in him for what he did for Natalee --
BEHAR: No there`s no empathy.
BROWN: -- there is no empathy for what he did to Stephanie either.
BEHAR: Right ok.
COSBY: He blames Stephanie for the murder, too.
He has a twisted mind set. In fact we`re hearing reports out of Aruba and also reports out of Peru basically saying she was looking at his computer and how dare she sort of look into his world.
BEHAR: Yes.
COSBY: It`s this arrogance that, it`s my world, I can do what I want and how dare you come into it. And it`s his mindset of she is sort of asked for it because.
BEHAR: What`s the difference --
BROWN: That`s not even true.
BEHAR: Oh go ahead.
BROWN: That`s not even true because, ok, I`ve got to really point this out. That`s not really true. What he`s doing is, he knows he`s been caught red-handed. He knows he`s going to be charged with homicide.
So now he`s going to the next best play that he`s got to lower that homicide from first degree to second degree. And he said, ok, I`m going to man up. I`m going to admit I did this, but it was her fault. She did this thing, she messed with my mind.
And he says two very interesting things. He said, I didn`t want to do it and she had no right. What he`s really saying is she didn`t want to do it with me and she had no right to refuse me.
That man was in the process of attempting to rape her. She had no pants on. She`s not going to look at this computer with no pants on.
And the girl was on her period. She wouldn`t take her pants off with no, that she wearing, you know a feminine product --
BEHAR: Everything we --
BROWN: -- she`s not going to do that. He was pulling those pants off. He killed her while he was trying to rape her. And that`s what he`s trying to get out of.
BEHAR: Ok.
BROWN: He doesn`t want to be charged with attempted rape and murder. He wants to be charged with just, oh, I lost my mind when she did a bad thing and interfered with my computer.
BEHAR: Ok, is it interesting to anyone that they`re all under 30, these people I just mentioned.
COSBY: Yes, it is.
BEHAR: Amanda Knox, Casey Anthony and Joran --
COSBY: It is a twisted mind-set. And you know, to highlight also what Pat was saying Joy too, in addition to -- I`ve been in Peru. And I knew the Peruvian authorities do not fool around. And I am sure that exactly as Pat was saying, that there was some sort of deal in terms of him not wanting to get caught.
BEHAR: Yes.
COSBY: But confronted with the information saying, you want to go to Peruvian jail here or you want to go here, you pick your choice. It`s not a pretty place. And to hit your point, yes there is this young sort of mindset --
BEHAR: The YouTube generation.
COSBY: Yes it is. How scary is that?
BEHAR: Well, because in this, in these days you can do something and the next minute you`re on television. So there`s no time to really process it, right, Pat? You sort of --
BROWN: That`s right.
BEHAR: This is it, I`m going to do it and take the consequences.
BROWN: And they can`t wait for the limelight and your friends talking about it.
No, he`s a psychopath and he`s going to play the game to the best of his ability so he can get away with it.
BEHAR: Yes. He is a -- I think we`ve concluded he`s a psychopath.
COSBY: And he`s going to try to sell --
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: I think he`s going to get 15. I bet he`s going to get 15 years instead of 35 and he`ll be out before he`s 30 and he`ll be back on the block again. That makes me sick.
COSBY: He`ll try to sell an interview. I bet you.
BEHAR: We don`t have -- thanks. Ladies, I have to go.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give us a city in the world that should have its own pride parade.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gayville, South Dakota.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gayville, South Dakota. Ok.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s awkward about Gayville is they still haven`t told their city fathers but their mothers suspect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: In the new comedy game show "Late Night Liars", contestants have to figure out which of the cocktail swilling innuendo-making celebrity puppets are telling the truth and which ones are just (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you.
With me now are one of the co-stars of the "Late Night Wars", the lovely Cashmere Ramada and the host Larry Miller. My pal Larry Miller. So Larry, you love puppets. Who knew?
MILLER: Normally it`s the kind of thing obviously one normally does at home just to relax. But then suddenly to make a living at it, you know what, as we both know, you never know where show business is going to take you. You mentioned before, Lorne Michaels when we were baby comics came to Catch and said you should be a puppeteer for the Henson Company.
BEHAR: I met Lauren Michaels in the 70s and he said you would make a great puppeteer. I went and met Jim Henson but I was too short. You have to be tall to be a puppeteer. Are you upset that we`re referring to you as a puppet?
CASHMERE RAMADA, "LATE NIGHT LIARS": Well, I mean I`m a person but a lot of people say I`m a puppet because someone will tell me their point of view on something and I`ll just repeat that to other people. Is that a puppet? I don`t have opinions about politics and stuff.
BEHAR: Good. We don`t need another puppet to be talking politics.
RAMADA: Ok.
BEHAR: We have enough of that in Congress.
MILLER: That`s exactly right. So you know what -- so the thing is --
BEHAR: Tell me about this show. Oh, go ahead.
MILLER: You never know what`s going to happen.
BEHAR: Yes.
MILLER: We both love the same thing out of acting and writing and standup, and then I got a call from the Game Show Network and the Henson Company. And they said we want to make a show. And I went down there and it reminded me, when we were kids and I saw the Match Game and you know, Hollywood Squares.
BEHAR: To Tell the Truth.
MILLER: And all those shows, even as a kid you see those panels, and you`d think, gee they`re in friends, they`re in show business, I don`t know what they do in show business but they`re in show business. Charles Nelson Reilly is great he`s -- and Brett Somers, I don`t know what they did.
BEHAR: Married to Jack Klugman. That was her claim to fame at the time.
RAMADA: Who are you guys talking about? Are these oldie timey stars from back when people drank moonshine and rode horses to work?
BEHAR: You`re too young for this conversation, I think.
RAMADA: Yes, I think so.
MILLER: She hangs out with Lindsay Lohan.
BEHAR: Is she supposed to be -- I shouldn`t say she. You`re right in the room. Are you supposed to be -- are you similar to Paris Hilton?
RAMADA: I`m nothing like her. She stole everything from me, first of all. I`m wealthier, thinner, hotter. I weigh less. I have way more nipples than she does to show to people.
BEHAR: This is getting a little weird.
MILLER: They`re great improv players. So the thing is --
BEHAR: What are you, Rielle Hunter? Did you ever see that thing where she`s sitting with a bunch of puppets on the bed?
RAMADA: I think she`s sad for your career right now.
MILLER: You know what? That would make this so sad. We should have a Rielle puppet. When we`re kids, though -- or vice versa -- when we`re kids though and you see those panels, you think they`re all friends. They`re all having a lot of fun, they`re all laughing. They`re all drunk.
BEHAR: Exactly.
MILLER: They were like loaded. So they wanted -- they liked that and they wanted to make -- to me and to them, by the way, it just seems funny. In show business, what seems funny?
BEHAR: I`m going to watch this show.
RAMADA: Good.
BEHAR: Larry and Cashmere, thank you so much for coming on the show. You guys can catch "Late Night Liars" Thursday at 11:00 p.m. What a good time slot on GSN. You can be as blue as you want at that hour. We`ll be back in a minute.
11:00 it can be like --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Earlier this week I spoke with Debrahlee Lorenzana, who is suing Citibank, she claims they fired her for being too sexy. Since our interview, a video surfaced of Lorenzana`s second breast enlargement procedure. Her story was part of a Discovery health challenge series from 2003, watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEBRAHLEE LORANZANA: The size that I`m hoping to get is more like a double d, 32 double d. A huge double d. Very perky, big breasts. I want to make a "Playboy" playmate. I want to have like a "Playboy" playmate. I know that a males` fantasy of having a playboy playmate, that`s what I want to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK, I don`t care how big (EXPLICATIVE DELETED) it really makes no difference if a woman has implants or they`re made out of rice pudding, men are going ogle good looking women, I think Dave Carter said it best, they stare therefore they are. Joining me now is Terry O`Neil, president of the National Organization for Women. Danny Bonaduce, actor and radio talk show host on 94.1 WYSP in Philadelphia. And comedian Jim Norton. OK Terry, I`m going to start with you. Should it even matter in the least that she has two breast implants in this particular case?
TERRY O`NEIL, PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR WOMEN (NOW): You know, of course it shouldn`t. And Citibank is hardly in a position to be complaining about her. I don`t think this is about an individual woman. Look, Citibank and Wall Street in general, 12 percent of the top executives were women. And 45 percent of the top execs laid off have been women. This is a pattern, systematic discrimination. This is not just about one woman. And it absolutely doesn`t matter if she had breast implants.
BEHAR: OK, Danny, do you agree with that?
DANNY BONADUCE, ACTOR AND RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I disagree vehemently with that.
BEHAR: Vehemently.
BONADUCE: When you have 12 percent of the executives being female and 40 percent of the executives being laid off being female, why would now would of all organizations would back a woman whose goal in life is to look like Barbie. Who said, intentionally on the Discovery channel, I want to look like my role models, Carmen Electra and Pamela Anderson, a woman who allegedly has hepatitis C and one who intentionally slept with Dennis Rodman --
BEHAR: Wait a second. That is irrelevant, Danny, if she had hepatitis.
BONADUCE: It is?
BEHAR: Yes, that is completely irrelevant, you know, Terry --
BONADUCE: When you`re handling my 401(k) plan, your choices are more than relevant.
BEHAR: What does the size of her boobs and whatever she`s got, any illness she`s got, have to do with handling your 401(k)? Her brains are not her boobs.
O`NEIL: A woman -
BONADUCE: Absolutely nothing but I watched this Discovery channel on her and her goal was to be -- to incite sexual excitement in men. She said it. I wish to be stared at and ogled. That is what I`m looking for. She got what she wanted. She`s caused irritation in the work place. She is not working on my I.R.A., she`s working on my irritating rack association. I need her done and away from my finances.
BEHAR: All right Terry, answer that.
O`NEIL: That was seven years ago, first of all when she was in her 20s. Number one, why are we still punishing her for that? That`s number one, number two, women`s bodies are constantly used as an excuse and justification for pushing them out of the workplace. Even Supreme Court nominee Elena Kagan is been facing it. She has been -- her physical appearance has been examined up one side and down the other. "Washington Post" columnists complaining about how drab she is. The people in the media saying she has short hair, so maybe she`s a lesbian. Women`s bodies are constantly used as justification for being told, you don`t belong here. We don`t want you here.
BONADUCE: Fair enough. Go ahead.
BEHAR: That`s fair. Just a second, Danny. Jim, have you ever worked with someone so hot she`s reacting to you?
JIM NORTON, COMEDIAN: Yes. I get a spanking video of Helen Thomas. That was kind of difficult to get over. And Lewis Black and I did a short film together and we wound up in the restroom with a glory whole, that`s four or five times --
BEHAR: Oh boy, all right, Danny, what`s your question for Terry.
BONADUCE: All right. Miss O`Neill, do we both agree that a woman has a right to choose? That we agree completely that a woman`s choice on the internal or external points of her body are her own choosing?
O`NEIL: You know, of course.
BONADUCE: OK. Good. Let me follow that question up. There`s a woman named "Bombshell" McGee who has swastikas tattooed all over her body. Does she have a right to go to work now at Cantor`s deli, or is she now out because she has chosen but to form her body with swastikas that point, I hate all my customers? Is that OK with you? A woman has a right to choose?
O`NEIL: Look, the point is, women`s bodies are their own. And of course -- appropriate --
BONADUCE: No, the point is, is the woman their body their own to keep a job, can a woman with swastikas work at a kosher deli, yes or no?
BEHAR: If they hire her, she can work there. See -- BONADUCE: But Citibank doesn`t want her there.
BEHAR: Yes, Citibank can also use, she`s got a lawsuit pending against Citibank, and they could possibly use this video against her. Don`t you think, Terry, that`s not fair.
O`NEIL: You know, of course they`re going to use it against her. I would imagine. What Wall Street is very famous for is what we call the sluts and nuts defense. In other words, when a woman complains she`s been pushed out through sexual harassment we don`t want you here because of how you look or whatever, the first defense is, oh she`s nuts, she`s crazy, that`s not why we fired her, we fired her for some good reason. And also by the way, she`s a slut, she`s horrible, she deserves to be fired. So women get the sluts and nuts defense all the time.
BEHAR: Go ahead Jim, OK, Jim.
NORTON: What idiot in the banking industry is firing women because her (EXPLICATIVE DELETED) are too big? Why would they fire someone for that, she should get a raise and be rewarded.
BEHAR: She says, they`re saying she`s too distracting to the men. Because the men cannot control themselves when they see a good looking woman walk by.
NORTON: The bad news is she might get fired. The good news is, I`m hiring. I think she`s fantastic.
BONADUCE: If all the woman wants is a raise, she`s getting looks as she walks down the aisle. And I find that a distraction.
BEHAR: But you know Terry, another area, let me ask you a question Terry, there`s an epidemic of women going around getting implants and all sorts of surgery, lipo, everything to enhance their looks. Have we failed as feminist for this generation that they seem to be more obsessed with their looks than ever before?
O`NEIL: I think what we`ve failed to do is adequately regulate the industries that are pushing this kind of thing on women. And I don`t think we have enough information about the safety of implants. We don`t have enough information about the safety of this kind of --
BEHAR: No, but I`m not speaking to the safety part of it right now. I`m speaking to the narcissism of it all. And that`s what I mean really. Don`t you think it`s a bit over the top lately? I mean look at this girl Heidi Montag. She had ten surgeries in one day because she doesn`t like the way she look, there`s something wrong with what`s going on --
NORTON: That`s not the industry, that`s rotten uncle or father. I mean that`s the problem with that, low self-esteem has nothing to do with the industry or the government regulation.
BEHAR: She`s speaking to some other point.
NORTON: Yes, I encourage breast augmentation, I really do.
O`NEIL: You know but a lot of people don`t realize for example, in Las Vegas it`s almost impossible for women to get a job at a casino unless they`ve had breast augmentation.
BONADUCE: That`s my point.
O`NEIL: Yes, and that is a real problem.
BONADUCE: Not the lady who took 20 grand off me last time.
NORTON: I know it`s hard to believe they wouldn`t have integrity in a place built on taking your college tuition money for your kids` college. Yes, why would they have --
BEHAR: Danny what is the male obsession with breast, women`s breast? What is that about?
BONADUCE: Can I be completely frank and honest?
BEHAR: Of course.
BONADUCE: They`re absolutely fun. They`re more fun than my bicycle. They`re very good - you know, a natural pair of breasts, my girlfriend or fiancee rather has natural d`s, and they`re wonderful and I like to cuddle with her.
BEHAR: You know what -
BONADUCE: Double d`s and bigger is like playing motorboat with Mount Rushmore and you`re rubbing your face with one George Washington and Thomas Jefferson you just come of with chaffing --
BEHAR: Thank you for sharing, I don`t think I could have gotten through the day without knowing that about you and your girlfriend. You know this woman said she wanted surgery to help her find the perfect man. She wanted her boobs even bigger and bigger and bigger. She finds a guy she likes. I`ll ask you this question. And the guy doesn`t like a big- breasted woman.
NORTON: What kind of guy doesn`t like a big-breasted woman?
BEHAR: Plenty, plenty, that`s not true, that is not true. I happen to have watched a semi-porn movie last night, a French film, and it was a girl who had hardly any breasts and he was so hot for her, you couldn`t take your eyes off that team.
NORTON: How depressing this is what she got to get the perfect man and this is what she`s got attracted to her, me.
BEHAR: That is a sad story. Go ahead, somebody wanted to say something.
BONADUCE: I was going to say it`s fashionably true, by the way. Implants are down 27 percent. And breast reductions are up 13 percent. Women are going for smaller breasts. And following fashion with your own body, fairly disgusts me. But the fact is, breast implants are down, breast reductions are up.
BEHAR: Terry, we never have this conversation about men being too arousing in the office -- I mean I worked with Rush Limbaugh. I was not aroused, thank you guys very much. You can catch Jim Norton at the Borgata in Atlantic City July 2nd and 3rd.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, young lady, I`ve had just about enough of this --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re watching the show.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Penny, your mother called all frantic. She said you were punished.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m all punished.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Tracey, I have told you about that hair, all ratted up like a teenage jezebel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, mother you`re so `50s.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That, of course, was from John Waters 1988 film "Hairspray," from "Pink Flamingoes," to "Cecile B. Demented," to his new book, "Role Models," John Waters has brought cult classics into the mainstream, much to the delight and horror of millions. The fabulous John Waters joins me now. Hey, John.
JOHN WATERS, AUTHOR, "ROLE MODELS": Hello.
BEHAR: Now, you know I was reading - I was reading the book and one of your favorite role models is a member of the Manson family, Leslie Van Houten.
WATERS: Leslie Van Houten, if you`re going to talk about it, be serious. It`s the only chapter in the book that`s very serious. There are no jokes in that chapter.
BEHAR: No, no joke.
WATERS: This is a terrible situation.
BEHAR: I know but I`m starting only with that, because what is your interest in -- why do you care about her?
WATERS: I care about her because I was very drawn to the crime from the very beginning. It ended the `60s. We made movies at the time to scare hippies. And unfortunately, they did in real life and ended everything. I look back on it and I feel bad. I dedicate one of my movies to them in a punk rock, smart ass-attitude, "Pink Flamingos." And after visiting Leslie for 25 years in jail, I`m serious believing she deserves to be paroled. Now, I understand that in this chapter, I bring up every negative and very realistic thing the victim`s family said against her parole, which I think I have to and I would never criticize what they say.
BEHAR: Right.
WATERS: Leslie met a madman when she was 17 years old. I believe in rehabilitation. I believe she`s become the person she would have become had she never met him. And she doesn`t blame the drug or him. She said it`s my fault to make him a leader, a leader can`t be --
BEHAR: Well I mean she did have -- he was a Svengali and he was the evil incarnate.
WATERS: And she was 17, but yes -
BEHAR: When she did jail that younger woman, she stabbed her 16 times and you know, what she already dodged the bullet because they got rid of the death penalty.
WATERS: I argue that point, her second trial she had a hung jury, first trial it was taken away, and second trial, hung jury because some thought they wanted to let her go for diminished capacity, not let her go but much lesser time.
BEHAR: Yes.
WATERS: The third time convicted. You can - the first two, she doesn`t bring the hung jury either. She got life, not life without parole. She deserved to go to jail. It was a terrible thing.
BEHAR: She did. They all did.
WATERS: A terrible thing. I`m only talking about her. I know her. She`s my friend.
BEHAR: I would assume you would never say Charlie Manson should be let out.
WATERS: Oh come on, she has -
BEHAR: It`s amazing he`s still alive that creep.
WATERS: Nobody has come into contact with him. She hasn`t seen him in 35 years. She doesn`t even give him power. He`s a disgusting old man. It`s a hard case. It`s a hard case. But I`m always interested in cases when there`s no fair answer.
BEHAR: Yes, OK, now let`s get off that subject to talk about something more fun, which is little Richard.
WATERS: Right.
BEHAR: I must hear some -- I mean people don`t realize that he was basically the pioneer of rock `n` roll.
WATERS: Yes. He - I mean Elvis came first but he scared all white people and black people. That was what he did. He scared every race.
BEHAR: Yes.
WATERS: And you look at him now and you think, what the hell was that? And you know that`s we he sung "The Girl Can`t Help It" but with Dane Masville (ph) song originally and then we turned into divine -- Little Richard was great. He invented rock `n` roll. He was the first one. I stole his mustache. I still wear it.
BEHAR: That mustache is not a real mustache.
WATERS: Yes, it is. Touch it. Don`t smear it, touch it.
BEHAR: It`s a pencil.
WATERS: No, it isn`t, it`s a little pencil -
BEHAR: There`s fuzz there?
WATERS: There`s more than fuzz. I shave it and cut it.
BEHAR: So you shave the mustache?
WATERS: Shave it here and clip it here and draw it a little bit with Maybelline velvet black, the only kind that works.
BEHAR: And you are an expert.
WATERS: And you have to sharpen it every time.
BEHAR: You stole that from little Richard?
WATERS: Yes. His looks like he put it on with an industrial magic marker these days. But still yes, he had it first.
BEHAR: He was outspoken, too. He would say whatever he felt like saying.
WATERS: He used to say my hair was hangin` down everywhere. I mean he has great stuff. I went to interview and we had trouble because I brought up some of the great things he said in his book about having threesomes with buddy Holly and great women and he got nervous and I said well, you wrote it, I`m covering it for "Playboy" magazine.
BEHAR: Threesomes for buddy Holly?
WATERS: Yes, great for him.
BEHAR: Wow, I didn`t -
WATERS: I`m not telling any dirt. I`m asking him about what was in his book.
BEHAR: But he was also out at the time, right?
WATERS: If you call that out. Out and to what? What is little Richard.
BEHAR: We`re talking about the `50s now.
WATERS: Recently he said the bakery has a lot and it but the bakery has been closed for a long time. I`m not sure what little Richard does today. It`s not my business.
BEHAR: No but at that time, he was kind of out as a gay guy, wasn`t he?
WATERS: He said women, men, dogs, cats everybody came, roofs - he said people threw their bras, their drawers, their panties everything on stage to him. He was first. Before they were throwing their panties at Tom Jones, they were throwing them to little Richard.
BEHAR: Really but I mean if you say you are everything then you are nothing really so you are sort of like a get out of it in a certain way.
WATERS: Well I think in the `50s it was tough, you know, if you were little Richard. It probably wasn`t so easy to deal with sexuality in anyway, because people were frightened of him. They saw him and ran, you know, no matter what he was into. He said to me in the interview, I invented it. I don`t know what he invented.
BEHAR: What did he think he invented?
WATERS: Nobody asked if you were gay or straight because they were afraid it was something worse that they didn`t want to know.
BEHAR: They didn`t want to know.
WATERS: They didn`t want to know.
BEHAR: What do you answer now when someone asks you?
WATERS: Well I say I`m gay. But I`m always impressed when they say openly gay? What`s happening, do they say openly heterosexual Tom Cruise?
BEHAR: What do you think of the fact that Elton John was performing for Rush Limbaugh`s wedding?
WATERS: I think it`s hilarious. It forces the issue, I think it`s great. it`s gaily incorrect and at the same time, it`s anarchy. I think it`s wonderful.
BEHAR: And it`s a million dollars in his pocket.
WATERS: Good for him he got some money, he`ll spend it the right way. I think it`s great for Elton John.
BEHAR: So you don`t think the gay community will be critical.
WATERS: Oh they are, the gay community is humor impaired. You know I`m not gayly correct either. I don`t fit in there. They were against this movie "Tranny Killers".
BEHAR: They don`t like the word tranny.
WATERS: Oh come on, we got bigger enemies than Tranny, trends like acting like drag queens, well a couple I know act like drag queens -- I don`t know the difference.
BEHAR: I think they think that it a transsexual is the correct because -
WATERS: Yes I know we have them in -- the heterosexual ones that look like, you know, hey look like, Mrs. Doubtfire.
BEHAR: It`s not that easy.
WATERS: They don`t tip well either. That`s another thing.
BEHAR: Yes.
WATERS: Ask anybody, they don`t tip.
BEHAR: All right, stay right there. We`ll be back with more from John Waters in a mine with the twitter questions.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back talking with the fabulous John Waters. You know I have Facebook and Twitter questions for you.
WATERS: Yes, OK.
BEHAR: Because people want to know about you.
WATERS: Yes.
BEHAR: Well first of all, we already did what`s secret behind the mustache? We know what that is. Is there a fine line between good taste and bad taste?
WATERS: I guess, but now everything`s bad taste. I don`t think anything in my book is in bad taste. I treat people with respect in my book.
BEHAR: You do, you do.
WATERS: I looked up to everybody I wrote about. I think reality TV is lot is bad taste when you make fun of people in it and feel superior to them. I don`t feel superior to anyone in my book, but they had more extreme lines than me.
BEHAR: Do you think it`s bad taste to have a reality show about little people? You can`t say midgets anymore, little people.
WATERS: Vertically challenged.
BEHAR: Vertically challenged, do you think that`s bad taste to say that? Because I`ve seen the show.
WATERS: Yes, I haven`t seen the show, is it bad to have one about tall people? I don`t know. It seems to me everybody`s a minority you can think of in some way. If they`re on, it`s their choice. They weren`t kidnapped to be on the television show.
BEHAR: That`s true, that`s true, this is a tough one for you. Which did Edna Turnblad did you like better, Travolta or Divine?
WATERS: Well I liked them all -- they reinvented. Divine played with realistically. Harvey played it like Broadway sing it out Louise and John Travolta played it like a Playboy bunny who got fat later in life.
BEHAR: Yes, he did.
WATERS: Well, that happens, god knows, just -
BEHAR: Just like a fat girl -
WATERS: Like a man who turns into a bear if they don`t exercise.
BEHAR: But I enjoyed all three of them too.
WATERS: Yes, me too.
BEHAR: I must say I like all of them. Let`s see. Would you ever adapt Sarah Palin`s going rogue into an epic miniseries?
WATERS: No but I`m more interested in little Levi.
BEHAR: Why? Tell me why.
WATERS: Levi, I know he`s shown his penis. I`m wondering if he`ll show other parts. You know that`s the real question that I need politically to know.
BEHAR: What else is there to see?
WATERS: There`s a few other areas we haven`t talked about that`s been my specialty in pink flamingos.
BEHAR: Oh my goodness.
WATERS: You asked.
BEHAR: I know. As my aunt rose would say, I`m remaining - as my aunt Rose use to say, I`m remaining.
WATERS: Yes, ok.
BEHAR: OK. What does John think about his early really raunchy films now?
WATERS: Well I`m proud of them. They`re like bad little children that still work. I get older. My fans get younger. That`s good. Because they still are horrified by pink flamingos and I think it will always work.
BEHAR: Yes. OK, John, it seems your work is more mainstream than in the past. Is this because you`ve mellowed or the world has become weirder?
WATERS: Well first of all my last film, A Dirty Shame," got an NC 17. I have a lot of censorship hassles. So I don`t know how much mainstream that is. I have written a book that talks about, you know, a saint Katherine of Sienna, a Saint that drank pus and offered it up to god. I don`t know how mainstream I am.
BEHAR: Did she really?
WATERS: Yes she did. But maybe it worked. You know I`m going to try it later in life. Maybe it will cure baldness.
BEHAR: You know what I went out on a limb and said they can`t find the saints these days because they have medication now.
WATERS: That`s true.
BEHAR: So people got mad at me for that. So they must get mad at you --
WATERS: They never get mad at me.
BEHAR: Why they don`t take you seriously.
WATERS: No. They think I`m so far gone. There`s no point getting mad at me. I`m joyously - I`m a happy neurotic.
BEHAR: You are a happy neurotic
WATERS: It`s hard to fight that.
BEHAR: And you wrote a really terrific book, I think.
WATERS: Thank you very much.
BEHAR: And you have other role models in here --
WATERS: Everybody from Johnny Mathis.
BEHAR: Johnny Mathis, I love what you said about Johnny Mathis, that he doesn`t force being a star.
WATERS: He doesn`t try too hard.
BEHAR: He doesn`t try -
WATERS: Have you ever interviewed him?
BEHAR: Never.
WATERS: You never interviewed him. Nobody`s ever interviewed him. He sells out every show and he can sing great still.
BEHAR: Yes. OK. Thanks very much for joining me, John.
WATERS: Thank you for having me.
BEHAR: The book is called "Role Models" and we liked it. Good night, everybody.
END
