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Cameron Diaz Talks Lesbian Sex; Reality Show for the Sunderlands?
Aired June 18, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Cameron Diaz has "Playboy" readers confused. She says lesbian sex does not make you a lesbian. So is this an airhead moment or a progressive epiphany?
And first balloon boy, then the Salahis, now the Sunderlands; 16-year- old Abby narrowly escapes death after her sailing fiasco while her father was reportedly trying to ink a TV deal. Will this be another case of bad behavior rewarded?
Plus a new study says overweight women have a tougher time finding sexual partners than overweight men. So are women more willing to settle or just less superficial?
All that and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: In an interview with "Playboy" magazine Cameron Diaz says that having lesbian sex doesn`t make you a lesbian. Well, I don`t know if that`s true but a little lesbian sex would have made those "Charlie`s Angels" movies a lot more interesting.
Here to discuss this and some other juicy stories are: from the Robert Verdi Show on the Logo channel, television stylist Robert Verdi; Editor-in-chief and publisher of "So Be Fit" magazine, Marta Montenegro; and comedian Vic Henley.
Welcome guys.
So she said, "If I`m going to be with a woman sexually, it doesn`t mean I`m a lesbian." Is this correct?
ROBERT VERDI, TELEVISION STYLIST: I agree with that.
BEHAR: You agree?
VERDI: I do. I think that sex is on an a la carte menu. I don`t think it`s a price fixed thing. And I think that we force people to check a box in our culture, in our society about their sexual proclivity. But it`s much more fluid and it`s much more textured than we care to admit.
BEHAR: What do you think?
MARTA MONTENEGRO, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "SO BE FIT" MAGAZINE: I think that either you are or you`re not. I mean one thing that she said is that having sex with someone doesn`t mean that you`re in love, which is true. But one thing is that and another thing is saying like, ok, if I`m with a woman, I`m a lesbian.
And I don`t know if this is coming out of all these -- depending on the magazine or depending on the media they were talking with. Because I find it interesting that people who come to my magazine, like they are fit. They want to show, like yes, I`m fit, I`m healthy. I eat right. Maybe she was saying that in "Playboy" and she had to come out with something interesting for "Playboy".
BEHAR: That`s true. That`s a good point.
VIC HENLEY, COMEDIAN: That`s a little bit of "I`m almost 40 and yet I like to kiss girls. I do cool stuff. I`m not cougaring, I`m young and cool. I`ll make out with girls."
VERDI: I made out with Joy and I`m not straight.
BEHAR: When did we make out?
(CROSSTALK)
HENLEY: I talk with my dog everyday, that doesn`t mean I`m into bestiality.
BEHAR: She said that I could be attracted to a woman sexually, but it doesn`t mean I want to be in love with her. It sounds like she just wants to have sex with a woman. It`s like a man.
VERDI: I think that the reality is that you have like that experience, it doesn`t make you -- it doesn`t make you a lesbian. It just means that you wanted to have that experience. Because being a lesbian or being gay means that you want to have a long-term emotional and sexual relationship with somebody that ultimately has nothing to do with sex.
BEHAR: Well, yes. I know that. I think that the emphasis on sex with gay people is out of control. Because people are people, they have relationships. They cook, they go to the movies. They have families, et cetera.
But lesbian sex is very specific. And I`ve never tried, never done it. I mean, I have to say, I`m a hetero. I never had the urge to have sex with a woman.
HENLEY: Your enthusiasm (ph) and as close as you are.
BEHAR: As close as we are, and we kiss and hug, but we`ve never done the real stuff. And you know what that is. And it`s not that easy for a woman to just go there.
VERDI: I disagree. I think it is.
BEHAR: You don`t know. You`re a guy. What do you know? You know nothing.
(CROSSTALK)
VERDI: I think it is -- I think that women have more dexterity and are more forgiving. And it`s not about the things that it`s about for guys. Sex is not about the same things for women that it is for --
BEHAR: Yes.
HENLEY: I like how you just put dexterity and forgiving together.
BEHAR: All right.
Let`s try another story. There`s a new study that says overweight women have more trouble finding sexual partners than overweight men. That`s because women aren`t superficial and we look for the person inside even if we have to dig through layers of adipose tissue to find it. Now, this is a European research as you pointed out.
HENLEY: 2,000 fat women in France.
MONTENEGRO: No, no, no. You can ask no matter where you are, women, we`re so concerned in how we look --
HENLEY: I agree with that.
MONTENEGRO: And men are more concerned how they perform. I think that they worry about how they perform. They don`t care if they have a big belly, or if they have hot bods or not, but they care about performing. And women, we care about both things, performing and looking good.
BEHAR: But if a man is that fat, my problem is trying to find it. You know what I`m saying?
(CROSSTALK)
UF2: They don`t care if you find it or not. They would enjoy it the same. You know? Like they don`t care.
HENLEY: A fat guy can go to a hooker. I don`t think a big girl might not do that. The fat guy can have sex if he pays a hooker. Or the fat guy with cash, he`s not really even fat depending on how much money he`s got.
BEHAR: I see.
MONTENEGRO: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
VERDI: I think men don`t -- men notoriously, when you go to the high school reunion, you see the women look good and they primp and preen --
BEHAR: Right.
VERDI: -- and take care of themselves. And the guys look dumpy.
BEHAR: That`s true.
VERDI: Women don`t judge guys based on how they look. Guys judge women on how they look.
BEHAR: This is why gay men are really screwed because --
VERDI: Totally.
BEHAR: It`s like two guys judging each other on how they look.
VERDI: 100 percent.
(CROSSTALK)
HENLEY: But it goes against the slutty (ph) big girls is the stereotype on that.
BEHAR: Is it?
HENLEY: Yes, I think.
BEHAR: The ones who are easier.
HENLEY: Right. The big girl who is -- so this goes against that completely.
BEHAR: Well, here`s another thing that goes against it.
MONTENEGRO: I would say exercise and have sex. After you exercise, you feel like all your endorphins and everything are ready to have sex. No, forget it.
VERDI: And sweaty.
MONTENEGRO: No. That`s great.
BEHAR: After I exercise, I like to have a meal.
MONTENEGRO: No.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That`s me. Now, this study -- this is interesting -- the study also states that obese women are four times likelier to have unplanned pregnancies. Now, there`s a little contradiction in the study, isn`t it?
VERDI: No, I think that that makes perfect sense
BEHAR: Tell me how.
VERDI: Because I think that she`s so insecure this -- I`m going to use one person in my head, that is the muse in this particular story.
MONTENEGRO: Why did he look at you?
VERDI: Not Joy.
She`s so insecure and she doesn`t actually give in to her needs. And then she does and at one moment she just concedes --
HENLEY: Right.
VERDI: And it`s never planned and it`s just unsafe.
BEHAR: So you`re saying her self-esteem is low thanks to all these men who only like skinny bitches. Right?
VERDI: So she doesn`t have sex --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Until hello, the poor girl has low self-esteem. Then the guy finally says ok, we`re going to do it.
VERDI: Her body is crying out for it and she conceives.
BEHAR: And he doesn`t want to wear a condom. And she says ok. Is that what you`re saying?
HENLEY: Yes, totally. I agree with him. Leave France. Move France with skinniest women on the planet. Move -- she`s a Ural Pass away from total happiness. Move to another country. And be the frisky big girl.
BEHAR: Can I just say that I hate this study with a passion.
VERDI: Why?
BEHAR: Because it`s annoying.
MONTENEGRO: Yes.
BEHAR: The whole thing is annoying.
VERDI: So what? Who cares?
BEHAR: So what.
Ok. Now, how about this one?
The girl who tried sailing around the world may get a reality show. And now the infamous Salahis definitely will appear on the "Real Housewives of D.C." They weren`t actually invited. They just broke on to the set.
Have we gotten to the point where anybody can get a reality show?
VERDI: Clearly. I have. Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But you don`t know. Don`t underestimate yourself. You have a talent.
(CROSSTALK)
MONTENEGRO: So what do you need to have one?
VERDI: You need to have one.
MONTENEGRO: Do we need to have sex? I mean, what do I need to have like --
VERDI: You need to have sex with Cameron Diaz.
MONTENEGRO: Ok, yes. Maybe saying that I`m lesbian, not.
VERDI: You need to do it while you`re actually on a boat getting lost somewhere. It`s like Gilligan`s Island. Who wants to watch that anyway? What is that girl going to do on a boat at 16-years-old that`s so interesting?
BEHAR: Well, I don`t know that the reality show is going to be on the boat.
HENLEY: I think there were cameras already on the boat, maybe. I`m wondering if --
(CROSSTALK)
HENLEY: Right? There`s footage -- there`s footage somewhere.
BEHAR: Really? Ok.
What about the Salahis? Those two bargains?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: When they broke into the party at the White House, it turned out they were already booked to be on a reality show. So you see it was like a setup in a way.
VERDI: It sounds like, yes -- that sounds like a producer has already talked to them.
HENLEY: Of course with Randy Cohen, he`s thrilled to death with all of it. It`s more publicity. It`s fine.
MONTENEGRO: We`re so upset with the reality shows that everyone is coming with whatever, like the guy with the balloon, the boy with a balloon and everything.
BEHAR: The boy with the balloon.
MONTENEGRO: Yes. And everyone is making up a story just to come out and be a celebrity.
BEHAR: Would you like a reality show, Marta?
MONTENEGRO: No. If the reality show is to help somebody, yes, but if it`s just to become and doing crazy things just to be a celebrity --
VERDI: You should have a show of hot Latina and all they do is follow you around, don`t ever talk.
BEHAR: Like that Debrahlee Lorenzana. You know that story about that woman who says that she`s too pretty for the bank? She could be on Telemundo with you. I can see the two of you --
MONTENEGRO: Oh, like it`s title`s "Perfect".
BEHAR: Yes, I mean she wanted -- do you know what the story is?
VERDI: No.
BEHAR: You don`t know that story? She was working at Citibank and she got fired because she was too hot and the men were distracted and they got rid of her. That`s here story.
Usually they fire a girl because she`s fat or ugly or something. She`s claiming because she`s too pretty. You buy it?
VERDI: Did she move to France?
BEHAR: No. But she`s a good looking woman and she has a nice accent like you do, Marta. So I say, Telemundo.
VERDI: I personally don`t like hiring attractive people.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You don`t like to hire --
VERDI: I don`t. I don`t hire attractive people.
BEHAR: Why? It makes you feel ugly?
VERDI: No.
MONTENEGRO: Why?
VERDI: Good looking people want to leave on time because they`re scheduled to have sex with somebody. Ugly people have nothing to do but dedicate their life to me.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What about you Vic?
HENLEY: The more I hear Marta talk, the more I want to go goal. Sorry, I don`t mean that in a bad way.
(CROSSTALK)
MONTENEGRO: When you say goal and it`s not bad --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: No. That`s with Perez Hilton yesterday.
Thanks, everyone. Catch the "Robert Verdi Show", starring of course, Robert Verdi, who else, on Logo.
And the Montenegro Method Training DVD set is available now. You`ll all look like her.
Ok. "Friends" star Lisa Kudrow joins the next segment to talk about her new show.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: In Lisa Kudrow`s improvised Web series "Web Therapy" she plays an unqualified therapist who has no patience for other people`s problems. I`m quite shocked. I didn`t know my shrink had a TV deal.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA KUDROW, ACTRESS: Haley is not here. Does that mean that you left her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, no. Haley sucks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Haley, I hate Haley. Haley hates you, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Me?
KUDROW: No, me. Of course me. Because it`s a person who doesn`t agree with everything she says or does.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, Haley was not comfortable coming today because she felt that -- and rightly so, that --
KUDROW: That I point out the flaws in her life plan?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: With me now is Lisa Kudrow. I love that. You`re just a nasty shrink who`s more self-involved than the patients.
KUDROW: Oh, of course. Yes, no, you have to get through them in her mind in order to, you know, complete your own agenda.
BEHAR: Now, these were webisodes.
KUDROW: Yes. These are webisodes.
BEHAR: They`re webisodes but now Showtime is picking it up.
KUDROW: Right. So Showtime has ordered ten episodes. So we`re using the original material and we`re shooting additional material to round it out into a half hour`s worth of story telling.
BEHAR: That`s great.
KUDROW: Yes.
BEHAR: And you have celebrities as guests, is that what you`re going to do?
KUDROW: Yes, it`s the same as we`ve been doing. And you know, we`re always surprised at who wants to do it every season.
BEHAR: Who wants to do it the coming season?
KUDROW: Well, wait. Oh, I don`t know if I can say it yet because it`s not definite. But we`re going to see Fiona`s mother. That`s a very exciting person.
BEHAR: Where did you get the name Fiona for the therapist?
KUDROW: Don Ruth thought of Fiona. And we saw Fiona`s sister Julia Louis-Dreyfus, played her sister who`s a psychiatrist. Who Fiona keeps accusing of, well, you`re really nothing more than a pharmaceutical dispensary, right? She`s ruthless. And her name is Siobhan.
BEHAR: Siobhan.
KUDROW: Somehow there`s like this Irish thing with them.
BEHAR: Two Irish shrinks. That`s not the most common shrink.
KUDROW: Really?
BEHAR: Yes. Mostly they`re Jewish.
KUDROW: Well, I don`t know why. Well, we all know that.
BEHAR: How much therapy have you actually had?
KUDROW: I`ve had therapy. I had a fantastic therapist. So this isn`t based on -- we`re not making fun of therapy at all. Obviously, it`s this woman. And if anything, it`s the Internet and how anyone can just throw out a shingle and say, yes, no, I do this.
BEHAR: Right. That`s true. It`s a business like anything else really.
KUDROW: Yes.
BEHAR: I had a therapist one time who -- actually I came in and I was looking a little tired. She actually got up and went into her kitchen because her office was attached and got me a piece of cheese. I`ve never heard of that.
The therapist actually brings you a piece of cheese in the middle of the session.
KUDROW: But also why is cheese the antidote to drowsiness?
BEHAR: Because there`s protein in it.
KUDROW: Ok.
BEHAR: I was having like low blood sugar or something. I didn`t have the strength to attack my parents. You know?
And she also -- she limped. She limped out of the room, actually, then she limps back in the room. Then she said -- you know, I was scared, you know, to say anything. She said, you haven`t said anything about my limp? And I said, what limp?
KUDROW: Because you didn`t want to hurt her feelings?
BEHAR: Yes. That was the beginning of my therapy. At the end of it, it was like screw you.
KUDROW: What`s wrong with you?
BEHAR: What`s wrong with you? I heard that some psychology classes are using web therapy at examples of what not to do.
KUDROW: Exactly. Yes. I was doing some interview on (INAUDIBLE) and someone called up and said, no, I`m studying to be a psychologist. And this is one of our exercises. And I got all -- I found all six transgressions.
BEHAR: What is the worst thing that she does, just dismiss the patients?
KUDROW: She dismisses them. She records them. And now she`s posting them on the Internet -- the sessions.
BEHAR: She`s just a triple threat.
KUDROW: Now some of them are clients and we`re seeing a lot of her personal life, too.
BEHAR: Yes. I see
KUDROW: Now she only talks to people basically on i-chat.
BEHAR: It`s a funny idea. What would Fiona have said about these celebrities, like, for instance, I was thinking of Rush Limbaugh who recently got married, his fourth marriage. If he came as a patient, what would she tell him, do you think?
KUDROW: I suppose if at first you don`t succeed, try, try, try, try again. Maybe it`s time you can do it sober. See what happens. Worth a try.
BEHAR: That`s tough love sometimes you call it.
KUDROW: Yes. Sometimes it really does border on -- sometimes I agree with some of the stuff.
BEHAR: One time in group therapy when I was in group, and there was a woman in there who was overweight and the shrink said to her, I swear, "Don`t you ever get tired of being a fat slob?: I swear she said that to her.
People just were like, oh, my gosh, she has Alzheimer`s. We thought she had Alzheimer`s and she did. It turned out she has Alzheimer`s.
KUDROW: Oh, really.
BEHAR: Yes, I have a lot of stories.
KUDROW: She had Alzheimer`s or truth serum.
BEHAR: The shrink had Alzheimer`s and said that to this woman who was fat.
KUDROW: Right. I could see Fiona saying that.
BEHAR: Like no filter. You know what I mean? Like a Helen Thomas moment.
KUDROW: Right. Well --
BEHAR: Say God forbid.
KUDROW: God forbid.
BEHAR: What about Al Gore? What would you say to him?
KUDROW: Well, after 40 years, I think that`s purpose for success in my book. What more do people want from you?
BEHAR: Would you ask him if he had a little chippy on the side?
KUDROW: I think she would just go right to it. Obviously, you have someone else or your ex-wife does, otherwise why get divorced?
BEHAR: That`s what other people are saying. What about this idea that they`ve just grown apart?
KUDROW: Yes. Oh, Fiona?
BEHAR: What would Fiona say to that? Baloney.
KUDROW: Yes. Yes. Well, it`s a commitment. If you don`t feel like honoring the commitment, then you don`t. Who`s to judge? Certainly not me.
BEHAR: Ok.
KUDROW: It depends. If she likes the person she`ll be more generous.
BEHAR: Congratulations on the Showtime pickup.
KUDROW: Thank you.
BEHAR: Thanks Lisa very much. You can see Lisa`s series "Web Therapy" at lstudio.com. That`s where it is right now. Or download it on iTunes.
Back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VALERIE BERTINELLI, ACTRESS: My first date in 25 years. He wants me to meet him at Whiskey Island Marina. Do you know where that is?
BETTY WHITE, ACTRESS: It`s where whores go. You`re too old to act like this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s not old. Forty is the new 30.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And 50 is the new 40.
WHITE: What`s 80?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s still 80.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Well that was a look at the new sitcom "Hot in Cleveland". That`s what I meant to say, starring Valerie Bertinelli, who is back with me now and also joining us is Valerie`s fiance Tom Vitale. Welcome, Tom.
TOM VITALE, VALERIE BERTINELLI`S FIANCE: Welcome.
BEHAR: So what made you decide to pop the question, Tom? Because you were going together a long time?
VITALE: She`s pregnant.
BEHAR: I was going to ask that. Was it a shotgun?
VITALE: Yes.
BERTINELLI: Yes, right. I don`t know how. My eggs are too old and he`s had a vasectomy. So go figure that out one.
BEHAR: I mean what came over you? Was it Italy?
VITALE: It was the right time. It was Italy. The romance of Italy.
BERTINELLI: It`s kind of sunset over the Arnot River (ph).
VITALE: The Ponte Veccio (ph) was right there.
BERTINELLI: The Ponte Veccio was right there in the background. It`s kind of really gorgeous.
BEHAR: I know.
BERTINELLI: And we`ve never been on Italy. That was on my bucket list and I was able to cross that one off.
BEHAR: It was on your bucket list you mean like before you die.
BERTINELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: I hate that term. You`re too young to die. Don`t even say that. That`s for old, old people -- the bucket list.
BERTINELLI: But I`m on the cover of "AARP".
BEHAR: I know but still. So did she say "yes" right away or did she say "let me think about it".
VITALE: She kind of busted on me for a while.
BEHAR: Did you?
VITALE: Yes. Yes.
BERTINELLI: I said, "What are you, crazy? Why you are asking me this for?"
BEHAR: Were you scared or what Tom?
VITALE: I was.
BERTINELLI: He was really nervous.
BEHAR: About asking.
VITALE: Yes.
BEHAR: Do you think that she might reject you?
VITALE: No, I just was scared. My palms were sweaty.
BERTINELLI: I`m sorry.
BEHAR: Well, as long as they weren`t hairy, you know what I mean.
VITALE: They weren`t hairy. You`re bad.
BEHAR: Now let`s hear about the wedding. When`s the wedding?
BERTINELLI: He`s planning it. I don`t want to have anything to do with it.
VITALE: Secret date, secret place.
(CROSSTALK)
BERTINELLI: The date, the time and where we`re doing it. Sure we`ll announce it on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well I would think you should go back to Italy and get married.
BERTINELLI: That will be nice.
VITALE: We just might.
BERTINELLI: Destination weddings not as many people will show up.
BEHAR: You don`t want them to show up.
BERTINELLI: Oh God.
VITALE: We`re going to have it on a Monday -- morning.
BEHAR: Now you were both married before.
VITALE: Yes.
BEHAR: When you were younger.
BERTINELLI: Uh-huh.
BEHAR: And you -- I presume you think this one will be different, being married will be different?
BERTINELLI: Well, you know what? The top 25 things that you know married people really should know I think that list that we did on "The View" was really smart. I think had I known that I probably -- you know and you too. Maybe our first marriages would have worked. I`m glad they didn`t.
BEHAR: Well, which ones stood out for you do you remember?
BERTINELLI: Besides the -- no.
BEHAR: Which one on the list? Was there anything that stood out for you that was relevant to you?
BERTINELLI: So many things about, you know, that -- don`t expect everything in one person.
BEHAR: Yes.
BERTINELLI: And don`t roll your eyes, because it says a lot more than yelling.
BEHAR: Rolling your eyes?
BERTINELLI: By the time you got to rolling your eyes then you`re so done with that. That`s a really good one. To have sex.
BEHAR: Yes, have sex. Like I said --
BERTINELLI: Be consistent.
BEHAR: They don`t say, with whom?
VITALE: I`ll tell you, we talk it out though. We don`t fight it out. I used to fight it out. Now we just talk it out.
BEHAR: You don`t feel the need to argue anymore?
VITALE: We don`t fight. BERTINELLI: Not that we don`t have disagreements.
VITALE: Right.
BERTINELLI: And some things we have stronger disagreements about but we really get to a point to where we talk to one another and say listen I`m feeling this many degrees off. Do we want to fix this?
BEHAR: Right.
BERTINELLI: Or do you want it to be done and we have to do this with somebody else all over again.
BEHAR: That`s right.
Ok, you know what? I wish you all the best, really.
VITALE: Thank you.
BEHAR: You know, hope springs eternal.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Reality TV is big news this week. There`s the rumored show about the teenager who was lost at sea. And, of course, the feud between real housewife Bethenny Frankel and Omarosa from "THE APPRENTICE." If only we can get the ladies to fight on a boat in the middle of the ocean now that would be a ratings hit. Joining me are comedian and managing editor of bestweekever.tv, Michelle Collins. Actor Fred Willard, whose latest film "Youth In Revolt" comes out on Blue Ray and DVD today. And Omarosa star of the new series "DONALD J. TRUMP PRESENTS THE ULTIMATE MERGER." OK, Omarosa I`m going to your argument in a second, but I was wondering what you thought, any of you, about this case, the father basically says, OK, to a 16-year-old. Go sail around the world by yourself. And there`s some rumor that it might have been, you know, a reality show in the works.
FRED WILLARD, ACTOR, "YOUTH IN REVOLT": In a whole different world from me. My daughter turned 16. I was frantic that she was going to drive a car by herself.
BEHAR: I know.
WILLARD: So when you let your daughter drive -- sail around the world, it`s a different planet.
MICHELLE COLLINS, MANAGING EDITOR, BESTWEEKEVER.TV: Yes, I hope there are no like Bacardi breezers on board, any sort of like baby alcohol on board.
OMAROSA, REALITY TV STAR: I wonder where the reality rumors came from? Or is just -- has that been substantiated? That`s a reality show I`d watch.
BEHAR: I think it`s more than a rumor, I think it has a lot - well -
OMAROSA: That`s a reality show, I`d watch.
WILLARD: It would be a good reality show.
OMAROSA: Teenager out in the middle of the ocean.
WILLARD: Yes out on the sea,
BEHAR: It cost about a million dollars to save her, you know? Should the parents have to pay restitution. I mean who`s picking that bill up?
COLLINS: I think actually that they should because I was reading that they sent her out there at the most dangerous weather time in the Indian Ocean. Like it is extremely big waves, very icy. They had to have known they were sending her into a dangerous path, you know what I mean.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: And they`re wealthy. They`re yacht owners. Get out of here, they should definitely pay.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Child abuse to me. To put a child in the middle of the ocean like that.
BEHAR: Would you put a child of yours on a reality show?
OMAROSA: You know what I have two nephews who live with us. And I certainly try to protect their privacy - and certainly not interested --
BEHAR: I guess if the kid`s really annoying, maybe then.
WILLARD: I said to myself, what would happen? I said to myself, aren`t there going to be pirates? Might there be high waves.
BEHAR: Sharks.
WILLARD: Might there be wind that would blow the --
BEHAR: Yes.
WILLARD: It happened.
OMAROSA: Hey honey I swim with sharks all day.
BEHAR: OK real housewife Bethenny Frankel was on my other show last week, the subject of reality show villains came up. And Sherry, Sherry Shepherd, you know who she is, she compared Bethenny to Omarosa, watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERRY SHEPERD: Are you using reality TV to get famous?
BETHENNY FRANKEL: I mean I think she is an interesting example because she used it to be infamous. I think Elizabeth is a better example for someone who has used her career. I have a real career. I have a brand, I have a very popular cocktail, I have two "New York Times" best sellers, I have my own show. I mean you know when I went on the show I wasn`t buying diamonds and getting facials.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: And then Omarosa had a few words of her own for Bethenny.
OMAROSA: Bethenny was a waitress. And she`s saying that I didn`t have a real career. I worked in the White House for the president of the United States. I wasn`t serving cocktails in a smoky bar somewhere.
BEHAR: I know but you went back at her.
OMAROSA: Because she`s a twit. I mean she used to be my friend. That`s the worst part. She couldn`t afford taxi cab fare to come over and talk to me been, how do I extend my 15 minutes of fame. And now she has three shows and she`s calling herself the queen of reality, come on, Bethenny, she needs a reality check.
COLLINS: She has a nice career for herself.
BEHAR: She has.
OMAROSA: Good for her. But to say to me that I haven`t had a real career. First of all, I was on "THE APPRENTICE." The number one show on television, 28 million people. She was on "HOUSEWIVES." She was on some other show, three people watched. Congratulations, "MARTHA STEWARD APPRENTICE" did not do as well as Donald Trump show and she thinks she has some superior position to me? Come on Bethenny.
BEHAR: Do you think -- Omarosa, let me take a devil`s advocate position here for a second. Do you think it was overkill to say that her husband is gay? Do you know --
OMAROSA: From an address that I saw from him, you might think he`s gay.
BEHAR: You`re kidding now, right? You`re kidding right?
OMAROSA: I mean really, Bethenny is enough man for him. So if that`s his appetite, he`s well served.
BEHAR: But isn`t it overkill to say she had a tummy tuck --
OMAROSA: Well let me ask you Joy, what pregnant woman do you know loses 45 pounds in two weeks.
BEHAR: Twenty-nine in a month.
OMAROSA: And you all had her on the show questioning how much weight she lost.
BEHAR: I did. I did.
OMAROSA: And Bethenny knows she has a good plastic surgeon. That`s why she looks so good in the photo shoot.
BEHAR: What do you make of this, Fred?
(LAUGHTER)
WILLARD: I`m stuck between the fact that her husband is gay and she`s pregnant. Something must have been working properly.
BEHAR: There must have been a stint there -
COLLINS: First of all, if you don`t want to marry a gay man, move out of New York. If you live here, chances are the guy you`re going to marry is gay.
OMAROSA: Absolutely.
COLLINS: But here`s the thing, thing is, you know, I don`t know, for some reason marrying a gay guy, losing 29 pounds in 30 days, you know in Hollywood, we call that noon. To me that`s not noon, everybody does that stuff all the time.
OMAROSA: But she says she`s doing this naturally, I think that she`s being very, very false in her pretentions. She could have easily said Omarosa`s doing her thing, I`m doing mine, instead she attacks me. So - I went back at her.
BEHAR: But you go right back at her. Right.
OMAROSA: I took notes from the Donald Trump school of feuds. I don`t play fair.
BEHAR: Donald Trump does not suffer fools gladly, I`ll say that. You don`t get into a fight with him.
COLLINS: Uh-uh.
BEHAR: Or with you apparently.
OMAROSA: Or me.
BEHAR: Oh, all right but what do you take on the "REAL HOUSEWIVES" what do you think about all the bickering they`re always doing?
COLLINS: My favorite show.
BEHAR: It`s your favorite? Oh yes?
COLLINS: First of all, they all have rabies. I mean technically they are rabid. I would not be surprised if -- and that`s why it`s so fun to watch.
OMAROSA: And they call me mean.
COLLINS: You know, I think they would all admit that they have rabies. And I don`t think that`s a big statement. But - and 90 percent of them are dumber than dirt. I love it. It`s my favorite show. I watch this show. It is my favorite show. I actually like Bethenny, just to be fair. But I watch the show. I feel smart. I feel poor. But that`s -- I love it. I drink water. I just have the best time watching it.
BEHAR: Have you ever seen the show, Fred?
WILLARD: I`ve seen it, yes, parts of it. I`m most amazed at the reality shows, how quick are to fight and to anger. And the shows also to fall in love. The men fall in love with women.
OMAROSA: I fell in love with you in the green room.
WILLARD: Yes but that`s because I turned on my charm. But on TV, they`re really upset when like if they`re not chosen to be --
BEHAR: Well they are very - they get very bitchy with each other, I think. I`ve said this before, but the unconscious mind is right there. It`s like, I hate you, you`re stupid. It just comes right out. Kind of like interesting television, but it kind of lowered the level of discourse.
WILLARD: It probably encouraged, too, the cameras up.
OMAROSA: But you know what, people say -
COLLINS: We`ve already talked too much about it, the word discourse comes up --
BEHAR: How about unconscious mind.
COLLINS: I can`t - I don`t know what you are talking about.
BEHAR: OK let`s do this story. This you might like this, Fred, a little more maybe because you know these people. The FBI has released files that say the three Kennedy brothers held sex orgies at a New York hotel in the `60s and there were embarrassing details. One of the things that they say is that Pat Lawford, the Kennedy sister, was at these orgies. Who has an orgy with a sister in the room? I mean talk about a buzz kill. Do these -- you know about this?
WILLARD: I have heard about it, yes.
BEHAR: Yes.
WILLARD: And the three brothers in an orgy. Kind of awkward, isn`t it, to be with other guys at an orgy. I could see being with women. And with my luck, I would have been in the room next door at the hotel 2:00 in the morning. Pounding on the wall, hold it down. Bobby! I mean it`s the Kennedys. I know, but I`m trying to get some sleep.
BEHAR: No one who lives through that is surprised particularly by this.
WILLARD: Yes.
BEHAR: Because we didn`t know about it at the time, but now we know what went on. I mean it was unbelievable.
COLLINS: Yes the FBI files are no doubt files, like a big shock now that the FBI is releasing it? I also think it`s funny that Sammy Davis Jr. was supposedly there but he turned a blind eye to it. That`s a great joke. That`s a great joke.
BEHAR: That`s a good joke.
OMAROSA: I`m waiting for the sex tape. I mean everybody has a sex tape even if you`re dead. So - I`m waiting for the sex tape.
BEHAR: But Marilyn Monroe and the sister were the only women there with all these guys? I don`t get that part at all. I don`t even believe it. I don`t believe that the sister was there. I believe Marilyn was there.
WILLARD: Just the two women at a sex orgy?
BEHAR: Yes and a whole bunch of -- and they`re brothers.
COLLINS: I mean it`s the Kennedys, though. If anybody could do this, is it not going to be the Kennedys?
BEHAR: That is the craziest -
COLLINS: That`s why we elected them because they have orgies with each other.
BEHAR: Could you ever - could you ever see anything like this happening today?
WILLARD: Absolutely. They were on the cutting edge, they were in the --
BEHAR: Do you have a final word for Bethenny before we wrap?
OMAROSA: Bethenny, you`re a twit. Get a life.
BEHAR: All right so you don`t want to say, let`s be friends or anything?
OMAROSA: No she`s got her hands full with her husband.
BEHAR: OK thanks, guys. I tried. Be sure to catch the famous Omarosa on "DONALD J. TRUMP PRESENTS THE ULTIMATE MERGER" premiering Thursday night on TV1. And be on the lookout for Fred`s new book, "Fred Willard`s Magnificent Movie Trivia." Up next -
WILLARD: We were supposed to talk about that.
BEHAR: Up next, the double doze of father`s day, I`ll talk to two gay men who are fulfilling their dreams of being happily married parents.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Gary Spino and Tony Brown spent nearly $150,000 in their quest to have a baby. Their story, Gary and Tony Have A Baby is part of CNN`s Gay in America project and will air on June 24th at 8:00 p.m. here`s a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A family to them meant having their own biological child. That means doctors, lawyers and a whole lot of money. And women, not one but two women.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If my grandmother were to know the entire situation, I think she would give up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One to donate an egg, another to carry a baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are coming out of the gate right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m nervous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m nervous, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Joining me now are Gary Spino and Tony Brown along with Dan Savage, editor of "The Stranger" and the author of "The Kid" which documented the adoption of his son. OK guys, first of all, very nice to meet you. It was a very nice documentary. I watched it.
GARY SPINO, "GARY AND TONY HAVE A BABY": Thank you.
TONY BROWN, "GARY AND TONY HAVE A BABY": Thank you.
BEHAR: It cost a lot to do what you did. It cost you $160,000. There were three people involved, the surrogate mother, egg donor, and the sperm donor. And who is you, right?
SPINO: I love that title.
BEHAR: So why don`t you just adopt. It was an ordeal. Why not just adopt a kid?
SPINO: I always thought I would. Because I know there are kids in the world that need love and need a home. We had an experience where Tony was the sperm donor to friends and got to father a child. He wanted me to have that same experience.
BEHAR: Right. I figured that out. I mean you had the lesbian kid and everything. It was his turn to do it.
BROWN: Yes, exactly and we were fortunate, incredibly fortunate to be able to do this.
BEHAR: Yes what about guys who like mix it up in a blender, then you never know who the daddy is. What do you think of that?
BROWN: That`s a really interesting -- from a legal perspective, that`s really interesting. Because I understand that desire not to, you know, put a label on daddy or whatever, but then when you get to trying to create legal relationship for both parents --
BEHAR: It gets tricky.
BROWN: You have to identify who the biological father is.
BEHAR: Was it hard to find someone who was okay with donating her eggs to a gay couple? Was it difficult?
SPINO: We didn`t do it. The surrogacy company did. They sent us profiles.
BROWN: It was like computer dating.
BEHAR: I see you picked a beautiful girl. You didn`t go for somebody else, you went for the prettiest one.
BROWN: She is.
BEHAR: And genetically, I guess you checked out everything.
BROWN: Mm-hmm.
BEHAR: Then the surrogate mother says that you guys were very annoying. Why were you so annoying? Is that accurate?
SPINO: Honestly, I think Tony was annoying simply because I didn`t read any books. They kept asking me -- I didn`t read any books. I was the one calling her so --
BROWN: I was the annoying one then.
BEHAR: You were the annoying one?
BROWN: I wanted to know what she was going through. I did.
BEHAR: Was she eating correctly and everything else?
BROWN: Exactly.
BEHAR: But you missed the actual childbirth.
BROWN: Right.
BEHAR: Weren`t you afraid that once she gave birth, she`d want to keep the baby? Did that ever occur to you?
BROWN: It didn`t. From the first moment that we met her, she was amazing. Her husband john said, I can`t wait till somebody puts their hand on her belly when she`s pregnant and says, when is she due? And I can say, I don`t know. It`s not mine. Again, I`m going to say, I don`t know. It`s not mine either. From the beginning we thought, you know what, this is pretty cool.
SPINO: It was a project she was taking on.
BEHAR: Yes. And she got some money out of it.
SPINO: Right. She did.
BEHAR: For $30,000.
BROWN: Something like that.
BEHAR: OK Dan, hi, Dan.
DAN SAVAGE, EDITOR, THE STRANGER: Hey, Joy, how are you?
BEHAR: Now your 12-year-old son has two dads, too, right?
SAVAGE: That`s right.
BEHAR: OK what are the advantages do you think of a kid having two fathers?
SAVAGE: I don`t think there are any advantages to having two fathers or two mothers or an opposite sex mother and father. I think there are advantages to having two loving parents who wanted to be parents and prepared and planned and were there to welcome you and are taking care of you and putting your needs first. I don`t think it`s about gender.
BEHAR: Uh huh, Tony, are you worried at all -- in the documentary it shows what a difficult time you had as a kid being a gay teenager in a small town and you were suicidal. Is there any -- do those thoughts run through your head about your son, not that -- you know, that he`ll be teased, you know, and tortured.
BROWN: Well every kid is going to be teased. Every kid, you know, at some point in time faces peer pressure and faces the wrath of other children. It`s our job to, you know, just surround him with love and let him know that his home is a safe space and hopefully, you know, instill in him the tolerance for others that --
BEHAR: Right. That`s true. I was teased as a kid and al I did was wear Bermuda shorts in Brooklyn.
BROWN: -- is on our street.
BEHAR: I mean really, everyone gets teased.
BROWN: Exactly.
BEHAR: That`s part of growing up. Dan, has your son been teased?
SAVAGE: He hasn`t really. He`s been you know very fortunate. There have been a couple of really minor incidents. Kids aren`t that cruel. It`s really not kids who have problems with gay couples or the existence of gay people or gay parents or gay families, it`s adults who sometimes have a problem with it. Our birth mother, we did open adoption. Our birth mother chose us to be her child`s parents in an open adoption situation. We asked her was she concerned about her child having, you know, her child having gay dads and being teased. And her he action was everybody gets teased about something. And that`s been true but to a small extent. I think the concern is overblown. And if thrown in the face of gay parents by people who want to say we shouldn`t be able to be parents. We don`t say to African-American parents, well there`s racism, therefore you shouldn`t have children.
BEHAR: Right.
SAVAGE: We don`t say to Jews you shouldn`t have your children baptized to protect them from Anti-Semitism. We identify Anti-Semitism as a problem, and racism as a problem -
BEHAR: Right.
SAVAGE: The homophobia that our children face is a problem, not our children`s existence.
BEHAR: Of course, of course and that`s why I bring it up to you. Because your situation was desperate. You were suicidal. So it must have been very hard for you.
SAVAGE: It was.
BEHAR: It`s not just being teased. It`s worse than that.
SAVAGE: It was, it was, it`s four years of my life where I did not feel safe. I felt, you know, vulnerable. And like I didn`t have a friend. And it was horrible.
BEHAR: Did you go through that, too, Tony?
BROWN: Absolutely, yeah.
BEHAR: When you were a kid.
BROWN: Yes.
BEHAR: Where did you grow up?
BROWN: In Pennsylvania, small town.
BEHAR: Small town in Pennsylvania. And you were in a small town in - -
SPINO: In virginia.
BEHAR: Dan, where did you grow up?
SAVAGE: I grew up in the big city of Chicago. And I felt very isolated, too, because I was closeted. My family didn`t know who I was and I was worried they wouldn`t love me once I told them.
BEHAR: Really? So now the surrogate said that she was concerned that -- who was it? That Gary, that you didn`t have the maternal instinct. She said, does one of you take the maternal role in the raising of the kid? Tell me about that part.
BROWN: My mother calls him mother because --
BEHAR: Your mother calls Tony mother. You`re more of a maternal person.
SPINO: Yes.
BROWN: He does things by the book. I feel I`m more emotive and take care of the emotional side.
SPINO: He`s the fun dad, I`m the dad who gets us there on time.
BEHAR: OK well, stay right there. We`ll talk more about this when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with new parents Gary and Tony along with Dan Savage. You know Dan, according to a new poll, for the first time the percentage of Americans who perceive gay and lesbian relations as morally acceptable has crossed the 50 percent mark. Why do you think that is?
SAVAGE: Because more and more Americans know openly gay people because more and more gay and lesbian Americans are out of the closet. And nothing changes a person`s attitudes about gay marriage, about gay parents, about our existence quicker and with more finality than actually knowing us. To know us is to love us, figuratively.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Well, I mean people are starting to see that gay people look like and act just like everybody else. It`s not the stereotype of just the flamboyant guy that everybody is seeing now.
SAVAGE: And you can`t demagogue about who gay people are when people know actual gay people, when they can compare the rhetoric that emanates from the closet cases of the Family Research Council to the actual gay people in their lives who don`t live in g-strings on floats in gay pride parades all year long. They know that they are lying and they know that the haters are wrong.
BEHAR: Well in California we just heard final arguments in the trial to overturn Prop 8. What do you think will happen there?
SAVAGE: I think that the court is going to overturn prop 8 and rule that it`s a constitutional right for people to marry a person that they love. And it`s going to go all the way up to the Supreme Court and it will be a nail-biter. But the case for the anti-gay marriage crowd in California collapsed. They really called no credible witnesses for their side. And they`re literally in court arguing if you let gay people marry, society will collapse. As it`s collapsed in Canada and Iowa and Holland. They have nothing but lies. They`re not going to win ultimately. Even if we lose at the Supreme Court, which is a possibility, we`ll win, we`re laying the groundwork to win our rights down the road.
BEHAR: Do you guys want to get married?
SPINO: We are married.
BEHAR: You did get married?
SPINO: We were married in Canada.
BROWN: Five years ago -
SPINO: In 2005.
BEHAR: But you live in New York now, right?
SPINO: Yes.
BEHAR: You`d like to be married in New York, I take it.
BROWN: We`d like for them to recognize it.
SPINO: Yes we`d like for New York, yes, we would like on a federal level and certainly on a much more comprehensive level for New York to recognize it. But since we`re already married -- we are not --
BEHAR: How have you been together?
BROWN: Twenty one years.
SPINO: Twenty one years.
BEHAR: Come on. That`s it. It`s going to work. It`s working.
BROWN: That`s what touches I think, telling the personal stories. And I grew up in a really Catholic environment. And to know, pay attention and they know us and they love us. That`s just one of the greatest thing, telling personal stories. Thank you for letting us come on.
BEHAR: And also, you know, you have the child now. It would behoove you to get married now for the sake of the child. That`s what the religious people always say, they should have a married couple taking care of the children, right Dan.
BROWN: We got married first, then had a baby.
SAVAGE: Well that`s the argument, the argument they are making in court is that marriage is about children. Marriage is about the rights of children to have married parents.
BEHAR: Right.
SAVAGE: Well there are gay and lesbian parents. And in my case, you know, we were -- our parenthood was created by the State. The State signed off on our adoption and made us this child`s parents.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
SAVAGE: And then turned around and said, but you guys can`t be married because marriage is about parents and children.
BEHAR: OK but it`s changing rapidly, I think. Thanks, guys.
SAVAGE: Yes, thank you so much.
BEHAR: I ran out of time. Thank you for joining me. CNN`s "GARY & TONY HAVE A BABY" premieres June 24th at 8:00 p.m. it`s the first documentary in CNN`s "Gay In America Series.
Before I go, you know with all the crap going on in the world, BP, Van Der Sloot, I thought it would be really nice to end the week on a pleasant note and share in the innocence of babies. Happy Father`s Day. Good night, everybody.
END
