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Joy Behar Page
Cyndi Lauper Having Fun; "Real Housewives" Dish; Death of Michael Jackson; The Magnificent Madsen; "Hungry Girl"
Aired June 25, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, it`s been one year since news of Michael Jackson`s death shocked the globe. With his doctor Conrad Murray charged and still awaiting trial, will we ever know what really happened during the king of pop`s final moments? Joy looks at the legend`s controversial life and death
And "Real Housewives" bad girl, Danielle Staub dishes about her sex tape, her new book and why she`s always feuding with her fellow New Jersey housewives.
Plus 80`s icon, Cyndi Lauper drops by to discuss Gaga, gay rights and her bluesy new album.
All that and more, starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: It was a year ago today that Michael Jackson died, but the exact circumstances surrounding his death are still something of a mystery. To talk about this and to remember Michael Jackson are Deepak Chopra, co-founder of the Chopra Center for Well- Being and friend of Michael Jackson; Brian Oxman, attorney for Jackson`s father, Joe Jackson; and Diane Dimond, journalist and syndicated crime columnist.
Welcome to the show, you guys.
Brian, you`re in contact with the family. How are they doing these days?
BRIAN OXMAN, ATTORNEY FOR JOE JACKSON: I don`t think they`re ever going to get over Michael Jackson`s death, Joy. It has been, I would say devastating is the only word that you can say.
Mrs. Jackson has been deeply affected by it. Joe Jackson has been a real rock of Gibraltar for the family. And the rest of Michael`s brothers and sisters, they`re just not ever going to get over it. It really has hurt them to the core.
BEHAR: How are they going to remember Jackson though, today? What are they going to do?
OXMAN: Oh, my goodness, with great respect. And I think that has been the watch word. I spoke to Latoya Jackson yesterday and the word was respect. They want to be respectful.
Randy, the youngest brother, is organizing a private gathering of people. There`s to be a tribute to Michael at the Beverly Hilton Hotel on Saturday, which is going to be very respectful and a joy and celebration of his life. That`s what they want.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Deepak -- ok. You were Michael`s friend for over 20 years, am I correct?
DEEPAK CHOPRA, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FRIEND: Yes. You bet you.
BEHAR: Thank you, Sarah Palin.
CHOPRA: I didn`t hear what you said.
BEHAR: I said "thank you Sarah Palin" because you said "You bet you". Anyway, he once asked you about the valley of the death. What was that about? Was he a Buddhist? Or what was going on there.
CHOPRA: Michael is very poetic. He and I used to read poetry together. In fact, today, I`m posting on all the Web sites possible a poem he wrote about planet earth, which he also put in his book, "Dancing the Dream. And he read it on YouTube. We`re going to put that out today. It`s called "Planet Earth". It`s very relevant in view of what`s happening to the ecosystem.
Michael used poetic language. The valley of death has nothing to do with Buddhism.
BEHAR: Ok. But did he believe that his death was fated?
CHOPRA: He kind of sometimes mentioned. He said -- once he said to me, I`d like to go out like Elvis Presley and not Marlon Brando. So you know, at that time I didn`t know what he meant.
BEHAR: That`s interesting. That`s an interesting thing.
Diane, did he have a lot of undesirables around him in the last days, do you think?
(CROSS TALKING)
DIANE DIMOND, JOURNALIST: : No, I don`t think so. I think Michael Jackson toward the end of his life, the last year of his life had actually started to get it together again. The trauma of the criminal trial I believe had passed. And he, I think, in my opinion, the smartest thing he did was re-hire John Branca (ph), who is a brilliant entertainment attorney. He was planning 50 concerts. His children were going to go on the road with him to see him actually be the king of pop.
BEHAR: He seemed to be on a roll, according to you.
DIMOND: Yes, he really did. When you look at "This is It", the video of his preparations for those concerts, he looks thin, he looks a little older than the last time we saw him on stage, but he looks so vibrant and in control of everything.
BEHAR: Brian, do you agree with that?
OXMAN: I think he looks good, but underneath the coroner said he had severe, severe problems. He had brain swelling, Diane and Joy. It was from the use of the drugs. There`s just no getting around that. He had chronic pneumonia, chronic bronchitis. He was anemic. While his veneer, his face, he looked magnificent, but underneath he was suffering pretty bad.
BEHAR: I see. Deepak, was he addicted to prescription drugs?
CHOPRA: He was, but he was not killed by his addiction. What he died from is what the official report says, homicide and negligent manslaughter, so he died from an overdose of Propofol, which is an anesthetic which is never given outside of a hospital situation. It was negligence that he died from.
When I spoke to him earlier, when I spoke to him while he was expecting to have a great concert, and he was looking forward to it. I don`t think he expected to die.
DIMOND: Well, no, no. Who expects to die? But, you know, also in that autopsy, Joy, benzodiazepines, several different kinds, lots of medications. Brian is correct in that he had a lot of stuff going on in his body.
CHOPRA: All prescribed by legalized drug pushers otherwise known as MDs.
DIMOND: Absolutely, I absolutely agree with you, doctor because he went --
BEHAR: Why was there no intervention?
DIMOND: He went to so many different doctors and got so many different things. And who is going to say no to Michael Jackson? As to interventions, the family tried.
BEHAR: They did? The Jackson family?
(CROSS TALKING)
DIMOND: Brian will tell you -- the Jackson family tried several times to do intervention towards Michael.
OXMAN: Diane is so right. You are so right, Diane.
DIMOND: He wouldn`t let them in the door.
BEHAR: Now, Jermaine Jackson, his brother, he says that there was a conspiracy to kill his brother.
DIMOND: Oh, that -- you know --
BEHAR: What is that? And who`s got a conspiracy --
DIMOND: Brian you`re going to disagree with me but the Jacksons have this idea or this behavior that nothing can ever be their fault. Nothing can ever be the fault of a traumatic childhood, too many drugs, a domineering dad, a mother who never stepped in and said, "Hey, Joe, knock it off." Nothing can ever be their fault, so it has got to be somebody else`s fault.
Sony was out to get him or AEG was out to get him. But that doesn`t make any sense. Why would they want to kill the goose that`s about to lay the golden egg and go on a 50-concert tour?
BEHAR: You mean like even Dr. Murray? I think that`s the implication, isn`t it -- the Propofol?
DIMOND: Well, they think that AEG and in the past they`ve talked about Sony trying to conspire against Michael so they can get his library of songs. But to me, it`s so far-fetched; it`s the grassy knoll theory.
BEHAR: It is interesting, that you know whenever you hear them talk about it, it is not the abuse family. It`s got -- it`s an external factor that killed him.
DIMOND: Somebody murdered him.
BEHAR: Brian, Michael`s doctor -- yes, go ahead.
OXMAN: I think that both of these cases, it`s not only the internal factor or the commotion that was Michael`s life, but it also translated to the people around him. And greed, I think, is the number one thing.
It`s not that people were trying to kill him. Dr. Murray did not want him to die. He was the golden goose, no question about it. And the people around Michael, they didn`t want him to die, but they pushed him and they pushed him knowing that there were drugs involved. And you can only push a person so far before you get an overdose, and that`s exactly what happened here.
BEHAR: Ok. Now, Joe Jackson, your client, Brian, he blamed Mrs. Jackson, his wife, for playing a part in Michael`s death by not helping him to get to rehab. Now, from what I understand, Michael did not speak highly of his father.
DIMOND: No.
BEHAR: He had negative things to say about him. He cut his children off from him.
DIMOND: It`s a shameful thing for Joe Jackson to have said that about his wife. They were all worried about Michael Jackson for many, many years and his troubles and his legal travails.
For Joe Jackson to say that, I was stunned. And I`m stunned that the man at 81 years old does not get the hint to go away. I know you`re about to file a lawsuit on his behalf, Mr. Oxman. But, you know, Michael left him out of the will for a reason. And he still can`t get over the fact that he can`t get any of Michael`s money.
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: Go ahead.
OXMAN: I don`t think that that`s the case at all. Because what you have here is a mom who always was the center of attention and the source of what you would give money -- I give money to my mother and I expect her to share it with my father. That`s just the way children are, particularly young men, with their moms. I don`t think there`s leaving out anything here.
DIMOND: It`s all about the greed you spoke of.
OXMAN: The greed, I don`t see it in Joe Jackson. I have a great new respect for him.
DIMOND: Well, You`re the only one that doesn`t, Brian.
OXMAN: Well, I think I know a little bit. And I`m pretty close to it. What I see here is I see all the money going to someone else, strangers to this family, people who Michael did not like. And let`s get it real straight.
DIMOND: That`s why he hired them.
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: Well, it`s not for nothing, Brian, but you are his lawyer. I wouldn`t expect you to say anything else.
DIMOND: Well, Deepak, you were around him a lot.
OXMAN: I was Michael`s lawyer for a long time. And I know Michael. I know what he told me. Particularly about the people who are now in charge. He did not like them. He didn`t want them to be in his life. And he made no bones about it and he did that in writing. So I`m not just saying it`s my word.
DIMOND: Gee, I wonder why he hired them back and I wonder why he wouldn`t like John Branca making his fortune now, almost a billion dollars. I think John Branca was one of the best things that ever happened to Michael Jackson.
BEHAR: Ok. Before we run out of time, let`s talk about how he`s going to be remembered. What is the legacy of Michael Jackson, do you think?
DIMOND: In my opinion, one of the greatest and well known entertainers ever, an absolute genius. As all of us, we all have a dark side and the man had a dark side, in my opinion.
BEHAR: Yes. He had child molestation charges thrown at him.
DIMOND: Not once but twice.
BEHAR: Deepak -- yes.
I mean Deepak, what do you say to all that. What do you think is the legacy?
CHOPRA: Michael was the greatest artist of the century. I think I compare him on a different level but I compare him to Leonardo Da Vinci and Michelangelo. I saw him enthralled over hundreds of thousands of people in Romania; the whole town was on fire. There`s no one else who could do it like Michael did.
BEHAR: Ok, on that note, I thank you all very much.
Next up, Virginia Madsen stops by. I love her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, seriously? Come on. I did not take anything. Don`t you trust me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m going to assume that`s a rhetorical question. Boots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: She`s an Oscar-nominated actress and now Virginia Madsen is starring in the ABC dramedy "Scoundrels". Where she plays a mother of a family of crooks and no, it`s not a political show.
You know, why does it seem like all the great actresses, as you are one of them, are doing television now?
VIRGINIA MADSEN, ACTRESS, "SCOUNDRELS": You know --
BEHAR: Glenn Close has a great show -- Holly Hunter --
MADSEN: Oh yes, I mean, we`re flocking to television because we -- we have a voice on TV. You know? We have stories about us on TV. And our presence and females of all ages, our presence is like shrinking on the big silver screen.
BEHAR: Yes, I noticed that.
MADSEN: So it is what it is right now. And so it`s like that old saying, go where the work is.
BEHAR: That`s right.
MADSEN: And so I`m really -- I`m really grateful.
BEHAR: And the -- and the stories are great.
MADSEN: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, "Mad Men" has wonderful women on the show.
MADSEN: Yes.
BEHAR: And -- and Glenn Close`s show was great. I believe they ran the course and --
MADSEN: Yes. And you know, it`s -- I wasn`t looking to -- I wasn`t looking for a television series. And -- and I was reading a lot of scripts. And you know, sometimes you get a role where there might be three scenes. And that`s -- that`s fine. I don`t mind. I don`t need to be like the star, per se.
BEHAR: Yes.
MADSEN: But the scenes would be like nothing. Like there would be a scene in bed and -- and that`s it.
BEHAR: Yes.
MADSEN: And a scene -- and then you`d be on the phone for the rest of the script. And I can`t tell you how many scripts I`m on the phone. So that wasn`t for me.
BEHAR: Yes.
MADSEN: And then this came along. And it -- wow, there was so much in it.
BEHAR: I think it`s -- it`s hard work to be an actress. I really do. And nowadays, I notice that the girls, everybody has to take their clothes off now. You don`t go to a movie with women, young women in it where they are not stripping.
MADSEN: That`s what I`m saying that, you know, our presence is shrinking and we`re being more and more objectified than ever before. And it`s -- there`s a lot of reasons why it`s that way right now.
BEHAR: Why? What are the reasons?
MADSEN: Well, I think one is the way that movies are financed. Movies are financed to all kinds of ways and mostly from other countries where it`s really hard to get financing in our own country. And right now the money is coming in for romantic comedies and for guy stories.
BEHAR: Would you -- you could do that, romantic comedies.
MADSEN: Yes, I`d love to. I`d love to.
BEHAR: I mean it would be great, I`d be great, I mean, even in this show "Scoundrels," you`re very amusing. I mean, it`s funny.
MADSEN: It`s really fun to do. I`m learning so much. And it`s such an incredible feeling to be able to -- well, to find myself like at this time in my life, to be on the job where I`m learning.
BEHAR: Yes.
MADSEN: Like every day is learning something new.
BEHAR: That`s nice.
MADSEN: And that feels really good. It`s very fulfilling.
BEHAR: You have this -- you have this documentary you produce with your mother which is about women over 65 who really are aging gracefully in many, many ways.
MADSEN: Way more than gracefully. They`re aging -- they`re aging dynamically. And -- and I think it`s called, "I Know a Woman Like That". And because everybody knows like the lady down the street in the big red hat who`s gardening and she`s 90 years old. Or, you know, just women with a great spirit and who are not just sitting in a corner or, you know, doing this or whatever.
BEHAR: Yes.
MADSEN: And I wanted to know why my mother was like that. Why has my mother never been disappointed by a birthday that she had. Why does my mother never seem to be particularly afraid of aging? I think --
BEHAR: Medication? Is there anything --
MADSEN: Booze. No.
BEHAR: She likes getting older. I do, too, except you reach a point where you don`t want to get any older than that. I think 80 is the cutoff. After that it`s like -- I don`t know.
MADSEN: Well, then, you should see this documentary because some of our women are 90. And it`s not -- I guess I don`t like the phrase aging gracefully because that sounds like you`re just being graceful about being -- you know, we`re all going to be old. We`re all going in that direction.
BEHAR: If we`re lucky. If we`re lucky.
MADSEN: Right. So why try and make it into something bad? Like I think when we talk about aging, we don`t talk about being old. We talk about how to stay young as if there`s something wrong with being old.
BEHAR: I know. We don`t really value age in this country at all. I mean, the media certainly doesn`t. I mean, this kid --
MADSEN: Well, only because we`re not talking about it, you know?
BEHAR: But I mean look at the signals they`re getting, these kids. Heidi Montag, ten surgeries in one day to make herself over completely. That`s kind of scary and sad.
MADSEN: Well, I don`t know what that was really all about. I mean I don`t know her. But it`s a strange thing to do for fame. You know?
BEHAR: well, she didn`t like herself. She hated her looks.
MADSEN: And she was very pretty; not that she isn`t now but I don`t know. But that`s one way of doing it. I mean, that`s one choice. But what will she do when she`s my age?
BEHAR: I don`t know. I don`t know.
MADSEN: there won`t be any skin left by the time she`s my age.
BEHAR: I know. That`s true. That`s what happens. But you know, we were talking about Botox, you and I, earlier, and the thing about Botox is that the Hollywood people said a few weeks ago I was reading that a lot of people in executive positions were saying you cannot find an actress who looks her age any more. And they`re very upset about that, they claim.
Do you believe that, that they really want women who have wrinkles?
MADSEN: You know, I think they want women who look natural. But it is hard to -- because right now it`s not just the frozen Botox face, now they`re doing massive amounts of filler, so it`s like this swollen face.
BEHAR: Yes, it is. Puffy.
MADSEN: It`s like overdoing things and overdoing the lip. I mean, which is never done right, the lip.
BEHAR: Right. Who do you think is aging well in the industry? Do you think Meryl Streep is --
MADSEN: Oh, gosh, yes, Meryl Streep, Diane Keaton, Glenn Close, Kyra Sedgwick who I think is younger than me.
BEHAR: Oh, yes. Well, I don`t know if she`s younger than you, about the same.
MADSEN: Yes. And that`s -- there`s lots of us. Problem is, we aren`t aging the way that we used to. So they kind of like -- there`s a whole bunch of women like in their 50s who don`t look like that so -- they don`t know what to do with us.
BEHAR: I`m sorry I can`t talk to you longer. It`s such an interesting conversation. But you know, it`s television. We only have so much time.
MADSEN: I`m so glad. I love your show and I watch you every day.
BEHAR: I love that.
MADSEN: So I`m a fan.
BEHAR: Thanks Virginia. Catch her on the new ABC show "Scoundrels", Sundays at 9:00 p.m.
"Hungry Girl" joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: "Hungry Girl" Lisa Lillien is a "New York Times" bestselling author whose daily e-mails of recipes and diet tip reached 1 million people. Just in time for summer barbecues she writes about how to make guilt-free cocktails and low calorie party foods in her new book "Hungry Girl Happy Hour".
Hi Lisa.
LISA LILLIEN, AUTHOR, "HUNGRY GIRL HAPPY HOUR": Hi.
BEHAR: What is this that you brought here?
LILLIEN: That is a magical "Hungry Girl" margarita; that`s 115 calories.
BEHAR: Is there alcohol in it?
LILLIEN: Yes, of course. It`s not a margarita without alcohol, is it?
BEHAR: It`s good.
LILLIEN: It`s good, isn`t it.
BEHAR: It`s good, what`s in it?
LILLIEN: 115 calories; it`s made with crystal light lemonade mix, diet lemon-lime soda and tequila and some lime juice. That`s it.
BEHAR: How much calories are in the tequila?
LILLIEN: A shot of tequila has between 75 and 100.
BEHAR: So that`s mostly the drink.
LILLIEN: Exactly.
BEHAR: Why not just drink it straight?
LILLIEN: You can drink -- I don`t know. I`m not that crazy. I can`t --
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: Look at all the calories I would save if I just drank the tequila right out of the bottle.
LILLIEN: That is not a solution. Whoever is watching out here, this is not a solution. You know that`s -- you bring up a really good point. I like to just have the calories in my drinks come from the alcohol and find clever ways to add mixers that don`t have a lot of calories.
BEHAR: Right. So this book is clever in that way.
LILLIEN: Exactly.
BEHAR: Now, you also write in the book about guilt-free mud slides and other things. What`s a mud slide anyway?
LILLIEN: A mud slide is like a nice blended chocolate drink and for that I use a diet hot cocoa mix packet. It`s fun because you just have simple swaps to the really fattening thing you find at bars.
BEHAR: So were you an alcoholic?
LILLIEN: What do you mean was I? No, I don`t even drink that much. I`m a social drinker. Everybody likes a drink every now and then.
BEHAR: Oh, yes, especially now, this time of year.
LILLIEN: Yes. Especially right now. I`ll have another sip.
BEHAR: And also, you know, you`re trying to lose weight, but if you drink enough, you won`t really care about your body.
LILLIEN: Again, no, I have to dispute this. But the truth is people think if they`re watching what they`re eating and they`re trying to lose weight, they can`t have a drink every now and then and that`s just not true. You can indulge if you just do it the right way.
BEHAR: How many glasses of wine can I have every night with dinner?
LILLIEN: well, you know, they do say that a glass of wine every night at dinner is good for you.
BEHAR: One glass.
LILLIEN: Wine has about 120, 130 calories.
BEHAR: Each glass.
LILLIEN: And so you have to account for that somehow. How much are you working out?
BEHAR: I just do like stretching.
LILLIEN: Perfect.
BEHAR: I know. I despise aerobic exercise. I hate it.
LILLIEN: You do.
BEHAR: Yes.
LILLIEN: Why?
BEHAR: Because it makes you lose your breath. I don`t like that.
LILLIEN: You sweat?
BEHAR: Sweating -- oh, I don`t sweat. I never sweat. I don`t sweat. I have this special thing about me that I just don`t sweat.
LILLIEN: A special thing?
BEHAR: Yes. And also now the healthy snacking. What is that? What`s your go-to snack?
LILLIEN: I mean I snack a lot. I think it`s good if you snack throughout the day, you won`t overeat at meals. I eat -- a lot of the snacks I love are kind of boring. I like Fuji apples.
BEHAR: Those are good. Fuji apples, those are those big yellow Asian apples?
LILLIEN: They`re reddish with like a little bit of a yellow and red. They`re a little tart. I don`t like -- you know, 20 years ago --
BEHAR: Who is a little tart?
LILLIEN: You`re a little tart. I`m a little tart. No, Delicious apples were the cool apple 20-30 years ago, they`re not good any more. They`re just too sweet and boring and mealy. They`re not cool. They`re uncool.
BEHAR: I did not know that. You have soy jerky down here. Whoever asks for soy jerky?
(CROSS TALKING)
LILLIEN: It`s good. You know what? I think jerky is underrated. Jerky is delicious. It`s good. It`s high in protein. I love protein. It fills you up.
BEHAR: Thanks very much Lisa for joining me. And the book is called "Hungry Girl Happy Hour".
We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Cyndi Lauper`s got a new CD. And believe it or not it`s a blues album called "Memphis Blues." she went from girl just want to have fun to shattered dreams. Is she eager to show up for versatility or Prozac just not working, Cyndi?
CYNDI LAUPER, SINGER: All right, no, I can`t take the Prozac.
BEHAR: No, no, no, no.
LAUPER: I can`t stand still that long.
BEHAR: To take the pill?
LAUPTER: Well, that, too.
BEHAR: Well it doesn`t make you a zombie. It just reorganizes your brain in some way, that`s all.
LAUPER: But what would I do if it was reorganized? I wouldn`t be able to write or --
BEHAR: You might be able to write but, I don`t know. I`m not an expert on any of that. Now you know, you`ve always been like a fashion forward pop star. You always have a look about you that`s gorgeous. And here you are on the cover of "Rolling Stone" in 1984. Let`s look at that. Look at that picture. Now how do you feel when you see that picture?
LAUPER: Well, you know?
BEHAR: Look at you.
LAUPER: I was doing a whole anti-fashion thing at the time. And there were so many cute pictures that we took. The day I saw that picture, I was crying.
BEHAR: Why?
LAUPER: Because I thought that they just wanted me to be the ugly one.
BEHAR: Uh oh, how could you be ugly? You`re so pretty.
LAUPER: Well, you know, they painted me. What do you mean? I`m a sculptor, I`m a piece of artwork. I don`t really look like this.
BEHAR: Yes, you do.
LAUPER: oh, yes, you see me on your show. Well, you know, that`s a little different.
BEHAR: But you don`t like the way you look. But that`s interesting because the new cover of "Rolling Stone" has Lady Gaga on it. And she -- look at the picture of her. She seems to sort of be from a similar cloth, you know. A little bit wacky and out there like you were in 1984.
LAUPER: Well, I think she also like --
BEHAR: But she has guns on her boobs. I mean what`s that about?
LAUPER: And Madonna had the same kind of thing with the Gautier.
BEHAR: Yes, she did. She had those bullet (EXPLICATIVE DELETED) And those were interesting.
LAUPER: I know. But what`s the big deal? Come on.
BEHAR: Oh, this is so cute.
LAUPER: Right? That`s cute.
BEHAR: Who`s is this?
LAUPER: Mine, but you know.
BEHAR: I love this.
LAUPER: But you know --
BEHAR: Can I wear this to the Emmys?
LAUPER: You can wear that over your dress. Why not?
BEHAR: That is some brassiere. I love it.
LAUPER: Why not be colorful? That would be colorful.
BEHAR: But you know the girls in the music business who are coming up now --
LAUPER: Yes.
BEHAR: They seem to need to be crazier and wackier than ever. You know they`re getting called on the carpet for blaspheming the Catholic Church and having sex with rosary beads and god knows what else they`re doing. You know, crazy stuff.
LAUPER: They`re having sex with rosary beads?
BEHAR: Well not exactly like that. But it looks like that. You know, very revealing clothing and they`re flipping the bird. And they are doing crazy things.
LAUPER: Are you talking about Gaga? She never has off. Not one day off.
BEHAR: Not just Gaga but Miley Cyrus is in a little bit of hot water for kissing a girl. They seem to have to raise the ante in order to get noticed.
LAUPER: Yes but, you see, Miley`s coming out of that whole child star thing. She`s, you know, who knows what the heck? And also she`s growing up in front of everybody. It`s hard. You know, when you become famous, they don`t give you a handbook.
BEHAR: No, they don`t.
LAUPER: You know, like what to do when somebody`s just up in your face taking picture, taking picture, either I`m going to kiss a girl, tongue kiss a dog I`m going to do something really awful so they go away because when you work every day, every day, every day, how can you be gracious all the time?
BEHAR: Yes, no, but I`m not talking really only just about her moods. I`m talking about the fact that they have to be outrageous to get attention. It`s not about the music. Sarah Vaughan, Dina Washington, Ella Fitzgerald, Rosy Clooney, I could name a million of them. They all - all they did was sing. Now that`s not enough, right?
LAUPER: Well you know everybody said that about me. And they didn`t think I could sing because my clothes. Somebody actually said this, I couldn`t hear her singing because her clothes were so loud. And I was like, are you kidding me? I don`t want to put the shroud on myself and become like a plain Jane.
BEHAR: No, no, I don`t think there`s any danger of that happening.
LAUPER: I feel plain sometimes.
BEHAR: Really?
LAUPER: Yes. Yes.
BEHAR: Let`s look at your new viral video campaign called "Give A Damn." Watch this.
LAUPER: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m straight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m gay.
ELTON JOHN, SINGER: and I give a damn about equality.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Want to know why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because you can be fired in over half the states in this country for being gay or transgender.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: it`s time for things to change.
JOHN: We all have to get involved.
LAUPER: We all have to give a damn.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We give a damn.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: It`s important to have straight allies, isn`t it, in the gay movement?
LAUPER: That`s what this is about. I did the whole "APPRENTICE" thing to go on national TV and say, there is a large population in our country that does not have civil rights, and that`s the gay community.
BEHAR: Right.
LAUPER: And I couldn`t believe -- I did it. I did it live, too. Yes, I was like yes. And it afforded me to be able to kick off the give a damn campaign, which is all about everybody telling their stories and getting your straight allies in there. Because in every civil rights movement, when I was growing up, I saw white people and black people marching, saying this is not right.
BEHAR: Right.
LAUPER: And it isn`t right. And also, here`s the other thing, even if you are thinking selfishly, right? Fine. You know, we`re a free country. Except for you guys over there. Well, that`s all well and good, until you`re standing over there and it`s for some ridiculous reason that everybody decides to pick on you.
BEHAR: That`s right.
LAUPER: You`re either a free country or you`re not a free country. If somebody isn`t free in your country that means your freedom is up for grabs.
BEHAR: That`s true. That`s true. You know I want to ask you about Elton John. You know he recently performed for Rush Limbaugh for a million bucks. How much would they have to pay you to do that?
LAUPER: Well, he`s all about mending bridges.
BEHAR: Who, Elton?
LAUPER: Yes. He`s about, if I perform for this man who maybe is not really close to someone and he feels a kinship with Elton John? This is Rush Limbaugh feeling -
BEHAR: Yes.
LAUPER: A kinship with a gay man, right? Well, instead of slamming the door closed, he we to go widen the gap.
BEHAR: Right, so would you do it?
LAUPER: Me? I don`t know. I don`t know. I have a big mouth. And I don`t -- I`m not like I`m not always the calm, gracious person. I always have to go back and rethink, you know. Like kung fu panda. And master Shifu with the same time going on right here. Always going, focus, focus, and the other guy going, oh, my god! You know? I don`t know. I know my friends do stuff. Shaggy goes to the Mideast takes the money and puts it into the Caribbean Children`s Fund.
BEHAR: Yes, of course. I would assume you`d put it in your fund.
LAUPER: Yes.
BEHAR: I perform also, I`m a stand-up, you know? And I would do it if Glenn Beck married Rush Limbaugh.
LAUPER: Really? Glenn Beck.
BEHAR: I`d do it for 50 bucks if he did that.
LAUPER: Yes, I don`t think he`d marry him, though. Maybe he`s too tall.
BEHAR: He`s not his type. Now, you talk about "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE" before. Did you enjoy doing that? How did you -- did you like it?
LAUPER: Well, I got to hang out with Sharon. Sharon is such -- oh, she`s such a hoot. We laughed.
BEHAR: Who?
LAUPER: So hard. Sharon Osbourne.
BEHAR: Oh, Sharon Osbourne.
LAUPER: So funny. And the two of us, we laughed quite a bit. And you know, I got to say gay rights on national television prime time. That`s pretty darn good.
BEHAR: Right but was it fun,
LAUPER: Well --
BEHAR: Not really.
LAUPER: There were moments that were fun.
BEHAR: Yes. When you were laughing with Sharon, but besides that, the job you had to do and all that stuff, was that fun?
LAUPER: Well, they`re 18-hour days, 6 days a week. And eventually, you all want to kill each other. And, you know, you can`t sit and eat because you have no time because then you got to go talk. And you`re always talking.
BEHAR: Yes, it`s tough.
LAUPER: And so I had a hard time. But would I do it again? yes. Did it help me? Yes. I went down to Memphis. I did this in two and half weeks. Every day if I hit adversity. You know we hit adversity anyway. Because you`re in entertainment. You always have that.
BEHAR: Yes.
LAUPER: But if you -- in the "APPRENTICE" it was like every day is another thing of adversity. OK, regroup. So that`s -- it helped me. It helped me to regroup.
BEHAR: I`m glad it helped you, because you might even be doing another reality show, which we`ll talk about next time you come because we`ve run out of time.
LAUPER: I know I signed with Mark Burnett. They want a reality show on moi.
BEHAR: Oh, my god.
LAUPER: Oh, my god.
BEHAR: Thanks for joining me anyways Cyndi. I`m glad you came by and her new album is "Memphis Blues."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) crazy, that`s what you are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Am I? Am I? You just said that nice and -
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Clear again, but this time to my face.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I`m crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I`m not afraid of you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t you ever call me crazy. Ever. Ever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. Those are the toughest housewives I`ve ever seen. And right in the middle of that heated argument is my next guest. She attracts trouble the way mother Teresa attracted lepers. She`s a "REAL HOUSEWIFE OF NEW JERSEY" and author of "The Naked Truth." welcome Danielle Staub. Hey Danielle.
DANIELLE STAUB, AUTHOR, "NAKED TRUTH": Hi.
BEHAR: You know women in prison don`t fight like that.
STAUB: I`ve been there, and, actually, they do.
BEHAR: Do they really?
STAUB: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, is this -- do these reality shows, are these things for real or are you pushing it?
STAUB: Well I keep it real.
BEHAR: You keep it real.
STAUB: But I think that`s the problem with the rest of them. They don`t want me to keep it so real because they`re afraid I`m going to out them.
BEHAR: Who, the other women?
STAUB: I think so.
BEHAR: What do you mean, you`re going to out them as what?
STAUB: Just really to make them keep it real. They`re so busy calling me out on everything I`ve done in my life. Now that I`m owning up to it all in "The Naked Truth" they`re finding it difficult to face their own demons. So they made me face my own. Think it`s time to face theirs. Watch what happens in season two because I`ve just begun.
BEHAR: Oh, boy. But Dina had just left the show and she says that`s because of you.
STAUB: Isn`t that easy for her to push blame? She`s the youngest of 11 kids. I guess she`s got to blame somebody all the time for something.
BEHAR: Why did she leave then in your opinion?
STAUB: You have to watch the reunion and see. It`s not an opinion, it`s a fact, actually.
BEHAR: Of why she left?
STAUB: And it wasn`t me.
BEHAR: So you aren`t going to tell me?
STAUB: It wasn`t me.
BEHAR: It wasn`t you. Well she says it was.
STAUB: Well that`s easy for her to say.
BEHAR: Yes, yes but then there`s Theresa, she`s also attacking you. Are they all wrong, Danielle?
STAUB: Are they all wrong? Everybody is rightfully in the place they need to be in. And if that`s their feelings, I`m fine with that. But they don`t need to call me up to tell me about it. Just steer away from me then, period.
BEHAR: Yes OK, all right. You`re a tough lady. So let`s talk about this sex tape. Everyone has a sex tape these days. Why does --
STAUB: You have one?
BEHAR: No, I don`t. I`m waiting for Janet Reno to come out with hers. But I mean why is this like everyone has to have a sex tape these days?
STAUB: I don`t know if we have to have one or not. I just think the ones that are the most interesting are the ones that are sought after, I guess. I don`t know.
BEHAR: But what possesses you to make a sex tape?
STAUB: Well I made one when I was in a relationship. It was just meant for he and I.
BEHAR: And then what happened?
STAUB: I don`t know.
BEHAR: Well how didn`t it?
STAUB: Someone got their hands on it.
BEHAR: Because the guy let it out maybe?
STAUB: No, I`m pretty sure it wasn`t him.
BEHAR: Then it was you. There are only two people in it.
STAUB: No. I was holding it at one point, he was holding it at another.
BEHAR: But wow, that`s quite the callisthenic technique. How did you -- I asked you that already. One of the housewives said that you released it. That`s it. What do you say to that? One of them said you sent out.
STAUB: Poor pathetic little Jacqueline. She needs anger management.
BEHAR: What`s the matter with Jacqueline?
STAUB: She has serious problems ahead of her.
BEHAR: Really, Theresa has a problem. Dina has a problem.
STAUB: Oh we all have problems. I`ve addressed all of them in my book.
BEHAR: But when you get together with these women, is there anyone you get along with?
STAUB: No.
BEHAR: Nobody.
STAUB: I like it that way.
BEHAR: And you like it that way.
STAUB: I do. I don`t like them.
BEHAR: That makes you feel comfortable. Does it remind you of something?
STAUB: I`m comfortable with myself. I think them not so much. And I think, I don`t know if it`s a past life or what. But when they look at me, they see all the things about themselves that they don`t like and they don`t want to address. And I`m making them address them. So --
BEHAR: Do they get along with each other?
STAUB: I`m not so sure they do. No, I think they`re really commiserating.
BEHAR: Commiserating with each other?
STAUB: Yes.
BEHAR: About you?
STAUB: Well, I don`t know. That seems all they talk about is me.
BEHAR: So how much money did you make from the tape?
STAUB: I haven`t made a penny.
BEHAR: Nothing?
STAUB: Nope, at this point, there`s nothing in my bank account. Due to that.
BEHAR: Do you regret making it? Why put yourself through that, having sex in the kitchen on tape, and then not making a penny.
STAUB: Oh you watched it?
BEHAR: No, someone told me. We have perverts around here. They all watch these things.
STAUB: Oh my god, wow, so how was it? Really? No. I was in it, so I know. I don`t know that, you know, it was something that I ever intended for anyone else to see.
BEHAR: Yes.
STAUB: I was just having fun. If it was with my husband, my ex- husband, the father of my children, would it have been OK? No one would have raised an eyebrow, oh because she was married. But as a single --
BEHAR: No one raises an eyebrow about these things any more.
STAUB: No they shouldn`t. Why we do things is in the moment. I`m in the moment always.
BEHAR: What about the breast surgery you had on the show? Why did you have to repair a bad breast implant? What happen?
STAUB: The implants that I have are over a decade old. Actually, they were 12 years. And at that point when we were doing silicone implants, they were supposed to be replaced every 7 to 10 years at the latest. I had an encapsulation and staph infection when I had them done.
BEHAR: That was a while ago.
STAUB: It was a long time ago.
BEHAR: Twenty five years ago?
STAUB: No. Thank you. It was in `98 right after I had Jillian.
BEHAR: OK, 22 years.
STAUB: She`s 12, Joy. You took math at a school that I`m not going to say -- anyway, so I replaced them because it was out of necessity. They were causing me a lot of pain and discomfort and for many, many years. And if I had to do that over again, I wouldn`t have so much.
BEHAR: The doctor said you had the biggest deformities he had ever seen?
STAUB: Yes.
BEHAR: Who did these in first place, Stevie Wonder? Who put them in?
STAUB: Actually it was -- Stevie Wonder.
BEHAR: Dr. Stevie wonder.
STAUB: Actually, it was Steven Colon on Park Avenue. A Park Avenue doctor.
BEHAR: So he blew it.
STAUB: It was definitely not his fault. It was my body rejecting them. That`s the third surgery I had rejecting them. Now I`m hoping that these ones will be OK.
BEHAR: Is there anything that you won`t do on the show? Anything at all?
STAUB: Well it`s not that I won`t do things. I just won`t be fake. How`s that?
BEHAR: Except for your boobs.
STAUB: That`s the only thing. Yes. But I didn`t fake that. I kept it real. I let everyone in on the surgery.
BEHAR: Stay right there. We have more.
STAUB: I`m not going anywhere.
BEHAR: We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with "REAL HOUSEWIVES OF NEW JERSEY" star Danielle Staub. Now Danielle you were arrested in 1986 for serious crimes. You were -- charges were brought against you for kidnapping and extortion. Tell me what that was about.
STAUB: Actually, I pled guilty to one out of the seven charges that were brought against me and it was the lesser of the charges, and that was under the recommendation of the prosecutor`s office, who did recommend in the end probation for me of five years.
BEHAR: What was the kidnapping about?
STAUB: I didn`t kidnap anybody, actually. I was really charged with all the things that were going on in the home when I was arrested. And like I said, I pled guilty to the lesser of all the charges. It explains everything in the book as to how that came to be.
BEHAR: Yes, we`ll have to read the book.
STAUB: Yes, definitely.
BEHAR: For the details -- you also write that you were put up for adoption as a baby by your biological mother who was a 14-year-old girl from Italy.
STAUB: Yes. From what I was told, the story was told to me that my mother was 14 when she got pregnant with me.
BEHAR: And where was this?
STAUB: When she got pregnant --
BEHAR: Where were you?
STAUB: In Italy.
BEHAR: In Italy?
STAUB: Yes. And she was brought here to the states by my aunt. And she gave birth to me at 15.
BEHAR: And then what happened?
STAUB: Well, what happened after that was I was adopted by a family, and my childhood was pretty much taken from me. I was sexually abused.
BEHAR: By whom?
STAUB: And passed around. By family members and friends.
BEHAR: In the adopted family.
STAUB: Yes.
BEHAR: Family members and friends? How many people abused you?
STAUB: Well to count, probably four. But it started at a very young age, so I`m not sure how many in totality it would be. But as far back as I remember there was four that did consistently abuse me.
BEHAR: You were raped as a child?
STAUB: Mm-hmm.
BEHAR: By grown men?
STAUB: Yes.
BEHAR: Did anything become of them?
STAUB: A couple of them have now passed on.
BEHAR: Good.
STAUB: So yes. No loss there.
BEHAR: I mean, that sounds pretty heavy duty stuff.
STAUB: It is.
BEHAR: I think that fact and the fact that you were adopted and probably felt --
STAUB: A lot of abandonment issues.
BEHAR: A lot of issues -
STAUB: When I was a child, yes.
BEHAR: So how does all that impact your life now?
STAUB: Right now, it impacts it in a very positive way. Because I feel that now, going through all of this, and then being very broken at the end of season one by kindred spirits, I thought. My spirit was completely broken as a mother, as a woman, as a person. And I did feel like a victim at that time. Now I don`t feel like that anymore. Because through the writing process and also taping season two, in conjunction with writing my memoir, I felt like it was very healing for me to relive all those things. And then everything does really -- and I can`t believe I`m going to say this, but once it hits the air, you know, it`s out there -- it happens for a reason. You have to figure out those reasons as you live your life out loud and continue to live your life because it will all make sense in the end.
BEHAR: Have you had any therapy?
STAUB: I did have therapy, yes.
BEHAR: I mean that kind of a heavy duty childhood requires heavy therapy.
STAUB: When I was very young. I did. In my 20s, after the arrest, it was mandatory. That was very helpful for me. Women`s groups that I was a part of. And I really - I think that I connected with a lot of different walks of life. And I added to the flavor of it and to make sure I came through it victorious and stay that way for my children and for me.
BEHAR: Well good luck. I don`t happen to link that everything happens for a reason. But --
STAUB: I do. I have to believe that. I`m not sure I like that but you have to make sense of it.
BEHAR: Thanks for doing this anyway.
STAUB: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Check out her book, "The Naked Truth." and of course you can see Danielle on "THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF NEW JERSEY." Mondays at 10:00 on Bravo.
END
