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Jennifer Capriati`s Overdose; Surprise Pregnancies
Aired June 29, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight, is it possible to be eight months pregnant and not know it? I mean, the weight gain, the hot flashes. Hey, wait a second. Maybe I`m pregnant.
Then Mel Gibson left his wife for a Russian hottie. And now that new relationship has gone kaputski. We`ll have the latest on this ugly breakup.
And he spent a year with the troops in Afghanistan. Instead of pointing a gun, he pointed a camera. The best-selling author of "The Perfect Storm" tells me about this new book and his documentary.
That and more right now.
The greatest tennis players in the world are at Wimbledon this week, except for Jennifer Capriati. The retired star is in a Florida hospital recovering from an accidental overdose. With me to discuss are Pat O`Brien, TV personality, and former sportscaster who hosted the U.S. Open for 20 years; and Justin Gimelstob, former tennis pro and friend of Jennifer Capriati.
Justin, you`ve been speaking to Jennifer`s family. How is she doing?
JUSTIN GIMELSTOB, FRIEND OF JENNIFER CAPRIATI: Well, I`ve exchanged messages with her mother. And she said Jen`s ok. She`s recovering. Denise is very religious. And she, quote, said "God is good, God will take care of her." I think she feels like the paparazzi have more -- are going to need more help than Jennifer.
BEHAR: What happened exactly?
GIMELSTOB: Well, it`s up to conjecture. I don`t have that information, but this is someone who has demons. It`s been fairly obvious. She has had battles with depression and she`s had some physical issues. She hasn`t recovered from some surgery she`s had on her shoulder. It`s really the story of a child prodigy; someone who has struggled post-career. She wasn`t able to leave her career on her own terms. It`s not the first time we`ve seen a professional athlete struggle to find meaning in life after their sport.
BEHAR: Yes. Right.
But Pat, we were hearing it was an overdose of prescription pills. Are you surprised at that?
PAT O`BRIEN, FORMER SPORTSCASTER: Well, I agree with Justin. Here is a young lady who I know when she came -- burst on to the scene at the age of 12, 13 years and became an instant sensation. And to come from where she came from, and to suddenly be the next tennis star in the world is a lot of pressure for a 13-year-old.
BEHAR: A lot.
O`BRIEN: Now, you hear people like me say that all the time. But Justin`s right. She battles demons. I battle demons. I know what she`s been through although prescription drugs is not my thing, it was alcohol. But I know that feeling.
And you know, she`s not unlike a lot of people who, a, need recovery and b, suffer from depression or suicidal thought or whatever it is. Take your pick.
Lindsay Lohan, you know, go down -- Michael Jackson, Heath Ledger -- not unlike them. You have to reach and get down and dig for your demons. Now, she fell, she came back.
BEHAR: Yes.
O`BRIEN: And then she fell again. I hope she`s ok. I`m on her side.
BEHAR: Justin?
GIMELSTOB: Yes, mental illness is a disease, like Pat said. I mean it deserves to be respected and empathy. The feeling at Wimbledon right now from the players is how much Jennifer is loved and she feels like tennis has deserted her. The reality is that the tennis world has nothing but love for Jennifer Capriati.
Like Pat said, this is a story of a champion, someone who has dealt with adversity and come back and succeeded and she`ll do that again. But there`s no telling the damage that being a child prodigy, not going through the normal developmental process and going through the normal social processes and having to live your life in front of the media and in public from such a young age, the damage there is harsh and significant.
O`BRIEN: Yes. And not only to have that world and then fall out of it, for whatever reason, and then not have a structure, the structure of that world, of being that person. And then having --
GIMELSTOB: That`s exactly right.
O`BRIEN: Then having depression and an addiction and whatever else that she might have. All of that caves -- it`s not funny. People in the tabloids will go crazy like they did with me. It`s not a funny deal. It`s a serious, serious illness. Hopefully out of this, that people will maybe look at themselves and see if they have their own problems. But I hope --
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: She turned pro at 13. She played the French Open at 14. She won an Olympic gold medal at 16. Then our information was she was arrested for shoplifting and marijuana possession at 17. She really had very, very difficult teen years --
O`BRIEN: Yes, she wasn`t a shoplifting -- I think it was a $35 ring or something.
BEHAR: Well, just acting out.
O`BRIEN: It really was acting out -- part of her lack of recovery at the time.
GIMELSTOB: But then she went -- it deserves noting that then she ascended all the way to number one in the world. I mean these are things that they make movies about. But what Pat -- you said in terms of the structure and she actually alluded to that with the tennis comes the structure, comes a routine. She`s actually (inaudible), she said, "Without tennis, what am I?"
And any athlete, any person that`s so successful at a young age needs to find some other sense of purpose, some other sense of self- confidence and belief and meaning. That`s the part the Jennifer struggled with. Also the physical issues; she`s had legitimate physical pain as a result of her numerous surgeries.
BEHAR: I think that that`s true of older people, too. People who don`t have something in their lives that they love to do or that they can do very well.
O`BRIEN: Why do you look at me when you say that?
BEHAR: Because you`re sitting across from me.
O`BRIEN: I think you`re right. Structure`s a big part of -- I`ve been in a bunch of rehabs. Structure is a big part. When people go to rehab, the first thing they do is give you a structure. Here I`m a television star and go to rehab and I`m cleaning toilets for 30 days. But that`s a structure that you have to do.
BEHAR: But the thing about alcoholism and a few other addictions is you have those AA meetings to go to and those give you structure, too, don`t they?
O`BRIEN: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Jennifer has struggled with her personal demons. In 2007 she told "The Daily News, quote, she said, "Sometimes you get to a point where you can`t stop what you`re thinking. It`s like you`re being taken over by a demon. When you are just so exhausted and tired of feeling that way, you think, I want to be off this planet right now because I just feel disgusting inside. I can`t even stand my own skin and I just want to get out."
That sounds like a very depressed and suicidal girl.
O`BRIEN: I am actually writing a book about what I went through, the good and the bad, the 40 years of television. In that I will talk about those thoughts because when you have -- I wasn`t depressed so much -- well, I was. But when you drink to the point that I did or you drink like an alcoholic. What happens to your brain is the fear sneaks in and then everything becomes personal. And so fear is the worst prison you can be in.
BEHAR: Justin, before we go to something, you played with Venus Williams. The Williams sisters seem to do very well. They have a lot of projects going on. What makes one teenager or young girl or boy do well and another not do you think?
GIMELSTOB: Everyone has their different coping mechanisms and different skill sets. Who is to say one is right and one isn`t? Jennifer has great parents. Her mother is an amazing woman. The Williams sisters had each other to lean on and go through it together. That could be part of the process.
But Jennifer is a unique case, she`s a champion. And -- but what Pat alluded to, she has real self-esteem issues and identity issues. She needs to love herself. She needs to know that there are so many people out there that care about her.
Just at Wimbledon today there`s such an outcry of support and she needs to really believe that and believe there`s so much positive that she can contribute beyond the tennis court.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks very much guys.
Let me turn now to Dale DaBone who says he dated Jennifer for six years.
Now you claim Dale that you have dated Jennifer for years. Here are some of the pictures of the two of you together from TMZ. Let`s see those. There you are.
How did you two meet?
DALE DABONE, JENNIFER CAPRIATI`S EX-BOYFRIEND: It was actually kind of by accident. I have always been a big sports fan. I love tennis but I never really told anybody about this. I used to like women`s tennis. I used to be a huge fan of Jennifer.
And I was just flipping through the channels one day. And a friend of mind was, go back, go back. He says women`s tennis? I said no, I know this girl. She`s great. I watch her all the time.
He looked and he goes, I know her. I was at a party with her in Miami. So it was like really? And he called the friend, hey I got this guy. And it was just a turn of events.
BEHAR: But you claim to have spoken to her after her accidental overdose. What did she say?
DABONE: Yes. When I heard about it, my phone blew up, obviously, and I just figured there was no way she was going to answer the phone. I was just going to leave her a sweet message because we haven`t talked in a while. We didn`t date six years. We only had like four years and it was like on and off again. I hate you, I love you, I hate you kind of thing but she answered the phone.
And I was like, I didn`t know what to say. Because I was like -- I was planning on this message I was going to give her. Then it turned into --
BEHAR: You said that -- go ahead. I`m running out of time.
DABONE: She was kind of hysterical. Oh, my God. If you really cared why did you do this? And then you went back. I hate you.
BEHAR: What do you mean, if you really cared, why did you do this? What does that mean?
DABONE: Because when we used to always argue, no matter what it was and especially around grand slam time. It could start off about the moon shining too much, but the end argument would be about me had -- doing porn -- you know, I did it before and I quit.
Every argument, no matter what, it could be about sliced bread but it would finish with I hate you, I can`t believe I`m with you and blah, blah, blah. She would see the grand slam and she`d see the tournaments and she`d get really upset.
Just like anything else, when you`re with somebody, I was with her every day 24 hours a day, you take it out on the person that -- on paper, I wasn`t the guy that s supposed to treat her good. I treated her like a princess.
BEHAR: Are you planning to see her soon?
DABONE: I`m sure she -- after this -- I mean, we tried to keep our whole thing a secret. And now that this is happening, I`m sure I`m the last person she wants to see.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks very much Dale. Thank you very much.
We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought, what? I`m pregnant? No way. I was not getting a period still. I took two pregnancy tests and they both resulted negative. And I as a scientist just depended on those results and said, it`s negative. That`s right there. But then I was like, oh, my gosh, what could this be in my stomach?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was a clip from the TLC show, "I didn`t know I was Pregnant" and guess what the show is about? How does a woman carry a baby to full term and not realize she`s pregnant until she`s practically giving birth?
Here now to discuss this are Dr. Marc Kalan, a fertility specialist; Ca Sondra Gutierrez, a teacher`s aide who gave birth to her daughter in her parents` bathroom; and Jennifer Lynes, a microbiologist who thought the bump in her belly was a tumor.
Ca Sondra, let`s start with your story. Tell me what happened and when you found out you were pregnant.
CA SONDRA GUTIERREZ, FEATURED ON "I DIDN`T KNOW I WAS PREGNANT": Well, I actually found out the day I was giving birth to my son. I -- I don`t know how this could happen. I mean, I was at home, I was feeling sick. I had cramps. They were just really bad. And I thought I was just going to start my menstrual cycle. And I go into the bathroom and 5:30 in the morning, I`m having my son.
BEHAR: In the bathroom?
GUTIERREZ: In the bathroom.
BEHAR: Well, at what point did you actually realize a baby is coming out of my body?
GUTIERREZ: I actually thought it was a tumor. In my parents` bathroom we have mirrors all over. And so I actually thought it was a tumor that I was having, when I saw that he was starting to crown, I`ve seen black and it was his hair, but at the moment, I didn`t know it was his hair.
I still was convinced it was a tumor. I was passing a tumor --
BEHAR: I see, I don`t --
GUTIERREZ: The second his head came out, that`s when I knew.
BEHAR: I`m not sure that that`s medically possible to pass a tumor. I don`t know if it comes out of you.
But anyway --
GUTIERREZ: I didn`t know that.
BEHAR: -- you didn`t know.
GUTIERREZ: Yes, I don`t know either.
BEHAR: Yes, all right, but then you -- the baby then -- I believe I heard with -- I read in the research that the baby went into the toilet. You dropped the baby into the toilet.
GUTIERREZ: Yes what happened --
BEHAR: What happened then?
GUTIERREZ: -- what happened was when I delivered him, I was really weak and I couldn`t -- I knew I could not carry him to my mom. So I ripped the umbilical cord apart from me and I went and got my mom. I knew it was not physically possible that -- for me to carry him.
And so I did what I thought was best for him and I placed him in the toilet which had just a little bit of water and I went and got my mom.
BEHAR: Why didn`t you put him on a towel? Why would you put him in the toilet? I mean, he could have drowned, you know?
GUTIERREZ: We -- well, there was only a little bit of water. I was scared that he would fall -- or I mean, like roll around.
BEHAR: Yes.
GUTIERREZ: And I -- I`ve -- yes.
BEHAR: You`re smiling and laughing because why? Why -- why do you -- you seem to be bemused by this.
GUTIERREZ: Well, because it`s just -- I feel like it`s a miracle that nothing honestly really bad happened to him. I mean, I was a school teacher. And I was outside. I was playing with my -- my kids. I was doing everything I shouldn`t have. I would play soccer with them, kick ball. And he turned out fine.
BEHAR: So I`m happy for you. You know, that`s good -- that`s the good news. Jennifer, tell me -- your story is a little different. What`s your story?
JENNIFER LYNES, FEATURED ON "I DIDN`T KNOW I WAS PREGNANT": My story is I had complained to my doctor because I couldn`t sleep on my stomach because I thought I had something going on. I took a couple of tests and the tests were negative.
So when I told them I couldn`t sleep on my stomach, he felt my stomach and could feel that something wasn`t right and scheduled an ultrasound. So I found out the day after Christmas, and then she was born three days later.
BEHAR: So -- so prior to that, you had no concept that something actually was growing inside your body?
LYNES: No concept at all, because I was actually a lot heavier person. And I think that when you`re a heavier person, you tend to not notice changes in your body and different placements of your body and in of itself. I didn`t even go up any clothes sizes or anything along those lines. I felt fine. I was working two jobs, playing softball, working out.
I was doing all kinds of stuff that any normal person would do.
BEHAR: Didn`t you feel a baby kicking or anything like that?
LYNES: Absolutely none. And I even questioned the several people that I knew were pregnant and said, well, how does it feel? What does it feel like? Would you really know? They said, oh, yes, you`ll know, you`ll know.
BEHAR: Wow.
LYNES: And I didn`t feel anything.
BEHAR: So you got weight gain, but you ignored that.
LYNES: Right. And I only dated near the end --
BEHAR: What about the missed periods, both of you, what about your missed menstrual cycle? What happened there Ca Sondra.
GUTIERREZ: I didn`t miss periods. I had my period the whole time.
BEHAR: Really?
GUTIERREZ: So I didn`t know, yes.
BEHAR: Wow.
LYNES: I had missed mine --
BEHAR: That`s interesting, you missed yours.
LYNES: -- I had missed mine for several months.
BEHAR: So what did you think? Yes.
LYNES: And when I called the doctors and explained that, I switched to the birth control pill earlier that year. And then by October I had stopped getting a period. And when I explained it, they said, oh, you`re just one of those people that doesn`t get a period.
BEHAR: I see. Doctor, let me go to you. With all due respect to these ladies, these stories sounds -- these stories sounds a little wacky. How could it be that a woman is pregnant for nine months, there`s something in there growing, a human being, and not know it? Tell me.
DR. MARC KALAN, FERTILITY SPECIALIST: Well, it`s -- it`s extraordinary. There`s no question. I mean, there`s -- this is -- this happens very, very rarely. There`s four million babies born are born in the United States last year and this happens a handful of times.
But the way that it happens is that pregnancy is variable from woman to woman and from pregnancy to pregnancy. And so all of these signs and symptoms we traditionally associate with it whether it`s nausea or weight gain or feeling the baby moving or missing periods, if a compilation of events occurs where maybe there isn`t as much weight gain or you had irregular period and you don`t expect to get your period back or you don`t -- you don`t know what babies moving feels like and you don`t really expect to get pregnant, you know, it can happen.
And clearly it has.
BEHAR: So and neither one of you went for a routine checkup in the nine months that you were pregnant.
LYNES: Not at all.
GUTIERREZ: No.
BEHAR: It`s just nothing -- nothing was wrong with you, I guess.
LYNES: Correct.
BEHAR: You just didn`t check it out. A pap smear or something like that didn`t come up.
LYNES: No.
BEHAR: So the timing was really -- so -- so doctor, do some women have symptoms -- do some people have some symptoms and they don`t know what it is. Or they think its pregnancy? I mean, I can`t figure this out. I don`t really get it. Because you`ve missed your period, there`s kicking, there`s vomiting.
What about the vomiting? Talk to me about the vomiting. I mean, I was, I had morning sickness for three months, the first three months --
KALAN: Right.
BEHAR: -- I was throwing up.
I mean, I didn`t think it was just I was watching some bad TV show that was making me nauseous. I had a feeling, no --
LYNES: Right.
BEHAR: -- it could be something else.
So tell me about that, doctor. Why wouldn`t you pick it up there?
KALAN: It`s quite variable. Not everyone has nausea. You know, people -- women who are affected by morning sickness or severely affected by it feel that there`s no question that they would know that this is a pregnancy. But there`s a lot of women out there who don`t have any morning sickness whatsoever. So again, it`s just the variation from pregnancy to pregnancy.
BEHAR: That`s the good news and the bad news, no morning sickness, hello, you have a baby.
Ok everyone. Stay there. We`ll be right back in a minute. We`ll talk a little more about this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel. We`re talking about women who didn`t know they were pregnant. You know, I`m feeling a little bloated right now. I wonder what it could be?
Now, you guy, Jennifer and Ca Sondra. Let`s talk about that you have the baby -- now you have a baby. What did you do then?
LYNES: I moved back home.
BEHAR: As any intelligent woman would do.
LYNES: Yes, I said there`s no way I`m living on my own taking care of a baby only for three days.
BEHAR: Where was the father of this baby?
LYNES: He was actually in town. We live in the same town. We were currently estranged at the time. He knew when I went to the hospital, I phoned him right away. And he was there the whole time. So he was there for the delivery and everything.
BEHAR: Child support.
LYNES: Absolutely.
BEHAR: He is. So he`s stepping up.
LYNES: Oh, yes. Definitely.
BEHAR: How about you Ca Sondra. What about you and your man and the shock of having a baby that you didn`t know you were having?
GUTIERREZ: We`re actually --
BEHAR: You got married?
GUTIERREZ: We`re actually engaged. We`re engaged.
BEHAR: Oh, you got -- that`s nice.
GUTIERREZ: He proposed to me at my work. We`re engaged. When I had my son, we were -- I was living at home with my mom. So we`re -- yes, we were living there.
BEHAR: What did he say when you said, hey, guess what? What did he say? Either one of them.
LYNES: I was on the phone with mine. And he was like, what? Because we thought we had three months. So he thought we had some time to figure things out and what we were going to do and how we were going to handle the situation.
BEHAR: I see. So you called him up and said I`m having a baby in nine minutes not nine months.
LYNES: I said I need to speak with you.
(CROSS TALKING)
LYNES: Yes. I need to speak with you and by the way, we`re having a baby soon. Then three days later I had a baby.
BEHAR: Yes. And Ca Sondra, what did your future husband say to you?
GUTIERREZ: Well, I had my baby at 5:30 in the morning. He didn`t find out until 7:30. My dad actually went to his house, picked him up. And he thought that I had an ulcer or something. He thought something had ruptured, my spleen or something.
BEHAR: Who thought that?
(CROSS TALKING)
GUTIERREZ: My husband.
BEHAR: You two just -- I love how the two of you just diagnose yourselves. You think you`re having a tumor that has hair on it. He thinks it is having this. How about going to a doctor?
GUTIERREZ: Yes.
BEHAR: Go ahead. I`m sorry. I`m sorry. I`m just teasing you.
GUTIERREZ: That`s ok.
BEHAR: So doctor, are there any psychological effects to this, like not knowing, then all of a sudden you have this baby? What are the effects of the shock psychologically?
KALAN: Yes, I mean it`s like any huge change in a person`s life. Fortunately, people, women, are pretty dynamic and pretty plastic, they`re able to adjust to big changes. There`s such thing as a maternal instinct. Both these women demonstrate that. They had these babies under these extreme circumstances and have adjusted pretty well. It seems like the babies are adapting really well.
BEHAR: Are they doing -- are the babies doing well? There`s no thought of putting these babies up for adoption or anything like that.
LYNES: Oh, no.
GUTIERREZ: No.
BEHAR: You have this baby, your only child. And Ca Sondra, you have other children?
GUTIERREZ: No. This is my only child, my first --
BEHAR: This is your only.
GUTIERREZ: Yes.
BEHAR: You know what? It sounds great to me. You don`t even know you`re pregnant for nine months, how boring and annoying it is. You put on 20 pounds, big deal. Then boom, you have a baby. It`s the greatest thing.
LYNES: My boss came to my house. My boss didn`t believe me. She came to my house to see me.
BEHAR: She didn`t believe you.
LYNES: I don`t think she believed me because I`ve been working there for seven years. She came to my house.
BEHAR: I really want to congratulate both of you. And thanks very much for joining me tonight. "I Didn`t Know I was Pregnant" airs Wednesdays at 9:00 p.m. on TLC.
Back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Mel Gibson`s ex-girlfriend and baby Mamma Oksana Grigorieva are going at it. She says he doesn`t pay child support so she`s going after Mel`s bank account. She grew up in the Ukraine with her mother conducted an orchestra at the local chicken factory. You can`t make this stuff up. For that alone, Mel should give her the $20 million. Here to give us the dirt on Oksana`s past is Nicole Laport, West Coast reporter for "The Daily Beast" and author of "The Men Who Would Be King." OK, Oksana is originally with a tiny town in the Ukraine, right. What can you tell us about her mysterious past?
NICOLE LAPORT, WEST COAST REPORTER, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, yes as you said, she grew up in the former Soviet Union, very poor. You mentioned the chickens already. But she was a very self-determined woman and, you know, was doing beauty pageants when she was young. Obviously very gorgeous. But knew early on she wanted to make something of her life, wanted to move West, wanted to get out of the Soviet Union. So at 19, she moved to London, got a visa, got a job as an au pair. That`s where she lost the glasses, let the hair down, and attracted the attention of many men. A lot of people who have known Oksana have described her as using her relationships with men to, you know, progress socially. Sort of - you know, do this upward social mobility.
BEHAR: Right.
LAPORT: There have been two ex-husbands, many relationships. Lots of bitter exes who claim they used her then moved on when she found someone of better social means.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
LAPORT: So she was definitely a woman with a plan.
BEHAR: Plus she left her second husband for James Bond actor Timothy Dalton, with whom she has a 13-year-old son. And you know, I mean, how does she keep getting to meet these movie stars? Maybe I should change my name to Svetlana.
LAPORT: Exactly. She met Timothy Dalton it was in the `90s. She was in a relationship with a former ballet dancer who was invited to this movie premiere that Timothy was at. And so again, it was at in a relationship with one man, finds someone more glamorous. And her mother actually described their meeting, literally, like a Cinderella moment where she was leaving and he saw her and ran up to her and said, oh, my gosh, are you coming back? Anyway, that`s how they met. They were together for a few years. And as you mentioned, they did have a child together.
BEHAR: She has Angelina Jolie lips. Doesn`t she?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, she does.
BEHAR: Yes, she does. Yes. How and when does she meet Mel? Gibson.
LAPORT: She met him in 2006 right around the time he was sort of blowing up and was arrested for drunken driving and went on his anti- Semitic tirade. And she`s a classically trained pianist and actually has had a music career and co-wrote a song that that year came out on a Josh Groban album. So that`s how she was kind of getting attention professionally.
BEHAR: I see.
LAPORT: Actually, Mel`s record label was interested in signing her. So she actually met him through that. It began as a professional connection, then became romantic.
BEHAR: She`s interesting. So her mother conducts an orchestra on a chicken farm. She`s a classically trained pianist. She has lips like Angelina Jolie. She marries James Bond and Mel Gibson. It`s a fascinating story, this woman. I mean, what`s going on now? What`s the next step in their battle?
LAPORT: Well, now it`s really ugly. It`s on TMZ every minute. It`s just this awful custody battle. She and Mel have split up and she`s claiming that he`s not giving her child support. He`s claiming she`s not happy with the custody arrangement. So it is all going to court in July. So we`ll see what happens. Right now just he said, she said, very nasty.
BEHAR: Right.
LAPORT: She claims that he`s beaten her. It`s really ugly.
BEHAR: Knocked some teeth out, yes, I know. OK, thanks, Nicole.
LAPORT: Thank you.
BEHAR: With me to talk more about Mel`s mess, are Michelle Collins, comedian and managing editor of bestweekever.tv. Television personality Pat O`Brien, and Caroline Schaefer executive editor of "US Weekly." what do you make of this, anybody?
PAT O`BRIEN, TELEVISION PERSONALITY: Go ahead.
MICHELLE COLLINS, COMEDIAN: No, I was going to say I frankly think it`s a huge misunderstanding. What we don`t realize is that Mel was just auditioning or rehearsing for his upcoming movie called "What Women Want Two, A Smack In The Mouth." And it`s going to be a big hit and --
BEHAR: I mean is she a victim or a shrewd opportunities that is the question.
O`BRIEN: I think she`s a shrewd opportunist, based on what I know. By the way, Nicole`s book is fantastic. Based on what I`ve read. You know these allegations of the beating happened in January and then they got back together, and then something went awry and she wanted more money. He was giving her ten grand a month. They weren`t living together. And --
BEHAR: When was that?
O`BRIEN: I know that last year he was giving her $10,000.
BEHAR: Well because she`s claiming that he hasn`t given her a penny and that she`s living off her credit cards.
CAROLINE SCHAEFER, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, US WEEKLY: His lawyer is saying, no, I`m paying her rent, and you know, I got her a nanny, I`m giving her $10,000 a month, so it`s a he said, she said story. But I mean I think it`s a perfect storm here. I mean he is kind of his rocker, too. I mean in 2006 is when he had that, you know, DUI and had anti-Semitic. And just earlier this year he liked started cursing at an interviewer for bringing that up. So something`s clearly amiss in Mel Gibson`s life, too.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: You know I enjoy it when you say kind of off his rocker. That`s a very kind --
BEHAR: The lawyer say -
O`BRIEN: The problem is that Mel --
BEHAR: No, let me just read you the lawyer`s statement. Mel has generously supported Lucia, that`s the kid, I guess, and will continue to do so. Oksana currently lives in a four-bedroom, multi-million dollar house purchased by Mel. Mel also purchased a brand new car for Oksana. He provides health insurance for Lucia and has given Oksana tens of thousands to support her and Lucia over the past months. So there`s no response on her side. But don`t they have any receipts or proof of this?
O`BRIEN: No but what happens in these things is if something goes awry, then other things come out that she thinks that people don`t know about Mel. I mean that`s like saying, you know, I dated Pat O`Brien and he drank. You know? Big deal.
COLLINS: That`s what we love about you, pat.
O`BRIEN: Seriously. And, you know, my problem with it is that I`m not on either side here so much, but then Mel gets all the bad -- it becomes a Mel story.
COLLINS: Oh, poor Mel.
O`BRIEN: Come on.
SCHAEFER: Everybody`s calling her an opportunist. I think nobody is getting out of this unscathed. Everybody looks bad.
(CROSSTALK)
O`BRIEN: She had a good deal and she lost it and she`s bitter.
BEHAR: Is this the final nail in Gibson`s -- you know, his career is not going that well.
SCHAEFER: It`s not going that well. But a couple years ago he did "The Passion Of The Christ" which made $800 million. He`s only 54. I think if he`s still a smart guy, he has a lot of money. So he can probably, you know, bounce back.
(CROSSTALK)
O`BRIEN: He can surf through this.
SCHAEFER: I mean he`s not -
BEHAR: Yes, he hasn`t exactly endeared himself to people in Hollywood.
SCHAEFER: Absolutely not.
COLLINS: You don`t deny the holocaust --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I mean come on -
O`BRIEN: But that`s not the story here.
BEHAR: His father is in the one -
O`BRIEN: That`s not the story here. That`s where you people --
BEHAR: That`s a different story. You people. You sound like my uncle Joe. OK, now the most powerful celebrities list is out today. And back at number one this year is, guess who? Oprah Winfrey.
COLLINS: Love her.
BEHAR: Now Glenn Beck is on the list, too. He earned 35 million a year. So exactly what the hell is he always crying about? OK, I mean, you know, and now are you tired of seeing Oprah at the top of the list every single year?
COLLINS: I was confused when I found out that it was the most powerful celebrities. I thought they meant physically powerful because I`m sure a this Oprah can take just about anybody in Hollywood. I love Oprah. You know what, she`s come to be almost like, you know, your favorite blanket on TV. She`s comfortable. You know what to expect. She gives you free things.
BEHAR: Well this is power based on money and internet hits.
SCHAEFER: Internet hits and also she has so much pull in Hollywood. Everything she touches turns to gold. She`s single handedly made the careers of Rachel Ray, Dr. Oz, and now she`s Nate Burkous (ph), I mean she`s definitely the most powerful in Hollywood.
COLLINS: She made Nate Burkous, that would be a story.
O`BRIEN: I mean Oprah is almost a verb now.
COLLINS: To Oprah.
O`BRIEN: To Oprah.
BEHAR: What does it mean to Oprah.
COLLINS: Binge eat? I`m not sure. Oh, Joy, I`m so sorry
O`BRIEN: I love her and she deserves -
BEHAR: Talk about shooting yourself in your career foot.
COLLINS: No, too late.
O`BRIEN: I don`t think that. I think she`s great.
COLLINS: I love her.
O`BRIEN: In my book, no wrong.
BEHAR: I mean she`s very, very good.
O`BRIEN: I am writing a book. I`d love to be on your show to talk about it.
BEHAR: OK how many asses can you kiss in one segment?
(LAUGHTER)
O`BRIEN: Well, so far three.
BEHAR: Now, listen, Blagojevich, remember him? The disgraced Illinois governor. He says that she should run for the senate. She should be a senator. Do we care what he thinks and is he right?
COLLINS: Well she would win.
SCHAEFER: She would win by a landslide. Arnold Schwarzenegger is the governor of California.
COLLINS: But -- California.
SCHAEFER: Well but he got there. But he got there. Oprah is most popular celebrity.
BEHAR: So why should she - think about it. She`s much more powerful as the Ms. Television.
O`BRIEN: Well that`s why should she do that? I think, if she wanted to, she could go to public service, she`s got all the money in the world. Get the houses, the fame, the look, the beliefs. And then what else do you do with your life? You talk about what you do with the rest of your life?
BEHAR: Yes.
O`BRIEN: And service would be a thing for her. And she`d be terrific.
BEHAR: Well she has that school in Africa that she can oversee.
O`BRIEN: That`s a long ways away though.
COLLINS: Bloomberg is a fabulous mayor of New York. He`s a billionaire. Media loves Bloomberg, maybe she`d be great.
BEHAR: He`s great. OK now, a couple of people were taken off the list from last year, which I thought was kind of interesting. For instance, Will Smith is not on it this year. He was on it last year.
SCHAEFER: Right.
BEHAR: And Kanye West was taken off. Did he ruin his chances with his Taylor Swift moment, do you think?
COLLINS: I wonder if the caps lock. I think the caps lock got to be too much for America. Too much caps lock, people go crazy, to many screaming -
SCHAEFER: And too many Twitter -
COLLINS: He`s always in -- I think it`s the caps lock.
SCAEFER: Always was in caps and shouting.
BEHAR: Oh he does?
O`BRIEN: I don`t know if he did, I mean I love Kanye West. I love his music. I think -- I`m not so sure that was an accident, by the way, that Taylor Swift thing. But that`s
BEHAR: You think it was a deliberate promotion.
O`BRIEN: That`s what I think but who cares -
SCHAEFER: I think he had a lot to drink.
O`BRIEN: Yes well that happens, too.
BEHAR: It wasn`t an accident, but he did get up there --
O`BRIEN: Who was on there to replace these people?
BEHAR: Well, I don`t know - I`m not on
SCHAEFER: Lady Gaga.
BEHAR: I`m not on there. I`ll tell you that much.
SCHAEFER: Lady Gaga. Tiger Woods --
O`BRIEN: Lady Gaga, Lady Gaga, by the way --
SCHAEFER: She`s number four.
O`BRIEN: A long time there. She is great. And if they`re talking about impact --
BEHAR: I don`t think she`s on it.
SCHAEFER: She`s number four.
BEHAR: Oh, she is?
O`BRIEN: This is a woman who has impacted this country in the pop culture in this country.
BEHAR: Totally.
SCHAEFER: Impact -- ridiculously.
COLLINS: No one can wear guns on their breasts like that woman except for Oprah.
SCHAEFER: That`s true, pearls -
BEHAR: Oprah can do it, OK, thanks, everybody. Next, a journalist who followed American troops in Afghanistan for over a year tells his harrowing story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The combat in Afghanistan has been going on for almost ten years. And today general David Petraeus is in Washington preparing to take over the command. Journalist Sebastian Junger followed American platoon in Afghanistan for over 15 months to document exactly what they face in the day in and day out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big firefight. Hey (EXPLICATIVE DELETED ) packing up rounds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s fun, though, I mean, that`s fun. You can`t get a better high. It`s like crack, you know? You just got to bungee jump or kayak. But there`s nothing you can`t come down, you can`t top that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you going to go back to the civilian world then?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have no idea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: With me now is Sebastian Junger, author of "War" and the co- director of the award winning film "Restrepo," one platoon, one year, one valley. Welcome to the show.
SEBASTIAN JUNGER, AUTHOR, "WAR": Thank you.
BEHAR: You spent a lot of time with the troops. What do you think the biggest misconception of them is and of this war?
JUNGER: Oh, god, there`s so many. You know they were at a remote outpost an hour and a half walk from the main base, no running water. They didn`t bathe for a month at a time. They were getting attacked four or five times a day, no internet, no phone, no cooked food, no electricity for a while. They were on a hill top for a year. And I think people don`t realize that the fighting, for all the high tech gadgets that we have, is - - it could be World War I basically.
BEHAR: Really?
JUNGER: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s primitive?
JUNGER: It`s very primitive. It`s conducted by, you know, by men with 100 pound, 150 pound loads on their backs walking around in the mountains. The guys I was with were in almost 500 firefights in their deployment.
BEHAR: That is a tough, tough gig.
JUNGER: Yes.
BEHAR: Now, you tagged along with cameras and batteries and weren`t you worried about getting hurt yourself?
JUNGER: I`ve been covering war since 1993. I started in Bosnia. And, you know, my focus has always been the civilian population. I mean, that`s where the most tragic effects of war get played out. And this was the first time that I`d been actually with professional army. Very, very different from the civil wars of West Africa and the Balkans.
BEHAR: Were you afraid that you might be slowing them down, they`re on a mission and there`s firefighting going on and there you are with your camera?
JUNGER: Yes, I was carrying less than they were. And I`m in good shape. I never slowed them down. I was conscious of that but I never slowed them down.
BEHAR: I mean I`ve watched the film and there`s a lot of chaotic camera work sometimes because you`re being thrown around, too.
JUNGER: Absolutely, yes. We were in a lot of combat with them.
BEHAR: You never got hurt?
JUNGER: I ripped my Achilles tendon, actually a patrol. My partner Tim Hetherington. There were two of us doing this project. We both shot all the video. He broke his leg in combat and he had to walk all night on a broken leg to get off the mountain top.
BEHAR: But the trials and tribulations. I want to read a part from your book. You say -- this is one of the quotes in here. "The moral basis of the war doesn`t seem to interest soldiers much. And as long-term success or failure has a relevance of almost zero." Is that a good or a bad thing? You`re saying that they`re not morally interested in what caused the war, what started it, how it`s going to end. They`re just in it.
JUNGER: I don`t think it`s good or bad. I mean, the lease don`t talk about the war on crime in a larger context. They`re focused on their neighborhood or whatever it is.
BEHAR: Yes.
JUNGER: It is the same for the soldiers. You know they`re 19, 20 years old. One guy was 11 years old o on 9/11. So really they`re very well trained. They`re very aware of the rules of engagement, civilian casualties. But the broader strategic goals, it`s not that relevant to them.
BEHAR: You mentioned their age, which is pretty devastating to think that young kids like that are out there in these situations. And you know, one of them -- I mean, when one of their friends died, that scene where one kid got so emotional and upset, gut wrenching to watch this, you know? And how are they dealing with it psychologically, these guys.
JUNGER: Well it`s really interesting. I wanted to write a book about the emotional terrain of combat, what it feels like to be in combat for a young man. And particularly why they keep going back. What is it about young men or about war that, you know, a guy can spend a year on a hill top like that and then re-enlist and go back.
BEHAR: Yes.
JUNGER: You know one of the guys said to me there are men in the platoon that straight up hate each other but we would all die for each other. That`s a brotherhood. And that brother hood is more secure. It`s more -- it makes the guys feel safer. They`re sure of themselves. They have a sense of purpose and civilian life back home, which isn`t about brotherhood, it`s about friendship maybe, not bothered, civilian life back home is all of a sudden confusing and bewildering and sometimes inconsequential to them.
BEHAR: It kind of pales with civilian life kind of being like, we go to the store, we have our thing, barbecues. It`s not the same. So a lot of it -- there`s a certain high to it maybe.
JUNGER: There`s a certain high to it. There`s definitely an adrenaline to combat but more profoundly that brotherhood is incredibly reassuring.
BEHAR: It`s deep.
JUNGER: It`s deep and you know these guys, they don`t have to wonder who they are, what their purpose is, what does society want from them. It`s all very clear. I`m 48, I`ve answered those questions. At 19, you haven`t answered those questions. When you`re in a small unit in combat like that, those vital questions get answered. And that`s why the guys often feel better out there despite the dangers than they do back home.
BEHAR: Now one of the most interesting parts to me is that the troops meet with afghan locals. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERNEL AUSLIN (ph): These foreigners, they don`t fight my soldiers. They hide in a mountain, in a cave, under a rock and talk on a radio and pay your sons a small amount of money to go ahead and shoot at my soldiers and my soldiers end up killing your sons.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was a very interesting part of the film, I think. How did the Afghan people feel about the troops being there, do you think?
JUNGER: You know, it was complicated. I mean the Americans were trying to bring in a road which would have been a good thing for the valley. They were trying to bring in clean water, medical aid, but their presence there caused a lot of fighting. I don`t think they were particularly fond of the Taliban, but the Taliban were able to hire local guys. It`s a very, very poor place.
BEHAR: Right.
JUNGER: They were able to hire local guys for as little as $5 a day to do their fighting for them. And that`s what the Kernel Auslin (ph) in that clip was referring to.
BEHAR: Uh huh, OK Sebastian, stay right there. We`ll be back in a minute with some more on this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with war journalist Sebastian Junger, and here with us is Monita Alcantara, the wife of the soldier who was in the platoon Sebastian followed in Afghanistan. Monita, your husband was in that platoon that Sebastian Junger followed. How was that 15 months for you being away?
MONITA ALCANTARA, HUSBAND SERVED IN AFGHANISTAN: It was really long and hard, but as a wife, you sort of get used to it. You either accept it or you don`t. And so I accepted it.
BEHAR: You accepted it. But you actually went there yourself.
ALCANTARA: Yes, I did.
BEHAR: To be close to him. Tell me about that.
ALCANTARA: Well, when I found out he was about to deploy, we had just gotten married. And I moved from Australia to Italy. And so I said I was going to go to Afghanistan too. I found a job with the Central College and I deployed. I happened to get to the country right after he got blown up. So we got to see each other in Bagram for a little bit, then we saw each other once more after.
BEHAR: You got a job. Can`t get a job in the United States. Got a job in Afghanistan.
JUNGER: I know, hey, extreme measures.
BEHAR: How hard is combat on the wives? I mean we don`t talk about that too much.
JUNGER: I think it`s very hard because they don`t know. They don`t know what`s happening. You know if someone gets killed there`s a blackout, there`s no internet, there`s no connection. So as soon as there`s a blackout, everyone is wondering oh, my god, what happened? Someone died. As they say, the soldiers sign up for duty. The wives didn`t necessarily sign up. It is incredibly hard for them.
BEHAR: The worse thing is not knowing if they`re okay, not really meaning in conversation. Right, Monita, how was your husband affected psychologically by his deployment, by being in Afghanistan?
ALCANTARA: It was hard on him when he got back. But he went to some counseling. And he talked about it with me and his counselor. And he`s, I guess he`s moving through it slowly.
BEHAR: It`s interesting. He had a harder time when he came back than when he was there.
ALCANTARA: Yes, definitely.
BEHAR: What`s that about?
ALCANTARA: Well, I guess it`s like Sebastian said, when they`re there, they have something to do. They feel wanted and need. And they`re focused on that. Whereas when they come back, there`s a lot of trivial things they have to deal with. People have to tell them what they have to do. And they get in a lot of trouble. There`s obviously alcohol available, too. And it just keeps getting worse.
BEHAR: Did your husband start to drink when he came back?
ALCANTARA: Yes.
BEHAR: He did. He`s going back -- he`s going back to Afghanistan, is he not?
ALCANTARA: Yes, he is. Soon. So --
BEHAR: Do you wish that he would just get a regular job?
ALCANTARA: It wouldn`t be him then. This is a huge part of who he is. I love him for it. So I`ll support him whatever he does.
BEHAR: Well one of the soldiers in the film said that he lied to his mother about what went on there.
ALCANTARA: Yes.
BEHAR: Has your husband been completely open with you or does he lie also to protect you?
ALCANTARA: We`re completely open with each other. I prefer it that way. Because for me, if I know everything that`s going on, my imagination doesn`t take over. I know what the worst is and I can deal with that.
BEHAR: What`s the best way to help these women, do you think, Sebastian?
JUNGER: I can`t speak for Monita. But in general, the comments that I`ve had from the wives that I`ve heard from, first of all, it really helps for them to understand what their men went through. I didn`t know this would happen, but my book really served that purpose a little bit. I was really, really pleased. But more importantly they`re alone in this fight. The soldiers fight together. The wives are alone in this struggle. And I think America needs to help the men. You need to help the wives. Because the wives can help the men. It`s very important.
BEHAR: OK thanks very much for this information, for joining me tonight. Thank you. Sebastian`s book is called "War" and the film is "Restrepo" a must read and a must see. Good night everybody.
END
