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Multi-Million-Dollar Divorces; Masseuse Accuses Al Gore of Sexual Assault
Aired July 01, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight, Tiger Woods may have taken his ex-wife for granted, but she just took him for $750 million. So does she plan to go back to Sweden or just buy Sweden?
Then Mel Gibson`s ex-girlfriend says she has a tape of Mel threatening to burn her house down and a lot worse. I`m not sure about the house but I think he may have just torched his career. We can only hope.
And a masseuse says Al Gore sexually assaulted her and she even saved a pair of pants that has his DNA on them. What is it with Democrats? Don`t they have washing machines?
That and more right now.
Tiger Woods has reportedly reached a divorce settlement with his wife Elin whereby he`ll pay her as much as $750 million. That`s not a settlement that`s a bailout. This massive settlement is not a first in the world of celebrity divorce.
With me to discuss this are Ericka Souter, staff writer at US Weekly; Stephen A. Smith nationally syndicated, Fox Sports radio host; and Raoul Felder, a divorce lawyer who has ripped Mike Tyson`s ex Robin Givens and Mayor Giuliani.
So let me say, $750 million. That breaks down to $25 million per bimbo. Now, was it worth it what he did -- Stephen, Raoul?
RAOUL FELDER, DIVORCE LAWYER: Well, you know $25 million per bimbo, you don`t know how many bimbos there are.
BEHAR: That`s true. There could be a lot more.
(CROSS TALKING)
FELDER: There could be a lot more. Yes.
BEHAR: The number that we know of, let`s put it that way.
ERICKA SOUTER, US WEEKLY: But does she deserve it? Yes. She put up with a lot. Most women can get over he had one indiscretion, two indiscretions. He went into the teens. I mean that`s bad.
BEHAR: He went into the teens.
STEPHEN A. SMITH, SYNDICATED RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Excuse me for saying that that is utter insanity. There`s nobody on this planet earth that deserves $750 million because you`re getting divorced from your man. I don`t care what he did. This mad did not --
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: They were only married --
SMITH: $750 million.
FELDER: That was hush money. It was hush money.
SMITH: Then he`s a fool. He should let her talk away. He should let her talk away and keep the money. $750 million? Forget the brand -- let me tell you something right now, you got women complaining about the divorce rate and why can`t men commit or whatever?
Exhibit one. Because if you got to worry about somebody coming along and taking -- you know, my voice is messed up today. Forgive me.
BEHAR: What? From screaming in your sleep?
SMITH: You know what? Actually, screaming this morning after I learned the news that this woman`s about to get $750 million.
BEHAR: Can I jump in here with a factoid. "Forbes" magazine is reporting that it is impossible to be true, even though we`re hearing it from several sources, because he`s only worth $600 million. What do you know Raoul?
FELDER: Well, you know, a little exaggeration. But the fact is it`s going to be lots of money because he made a business decision. He`s paying hush money. He thinks if he can shut her up for five years or so --
BEHAR: That`s part of the deal is that she`s not to speak about him in any shape or form even after he`s dead.
FELDER: But it never works particularly after you`re dead because somebody tells a sister-in-law who tells the neighbor who tells the hairdresser.
SOUTER: Who tells me.
FELDER: Who tells you, yes.
BEHAR: Then tells you.
SOUTER: Yes. But --
BEHAR: Do you think there even more dirt on him?
SMITH: Of course.
SOUTER: Yes, I think there`s definitely something.
(CROSS TALKING)
FELDER: Take a number.
BEHAR: What else do you think there is?
SOUTER: It`s nothing that`s going to shock us. But you know -- again he`s trying to rebuild his image. He wants to come back on top. He doesn`t need her coming out five years later, four years later or whenever with a book or another tell-all about how she was the beleaguered heartbroken wife.
BEHAR: But I mean -- who did the pre-nup, Raoul? Timothy Geithner?
FELDER: There`s no pre-nup here.
BEHAR: There`s no pre-nup.
FELDER: I`m sorry, there is a pre-nup here and there`s a post- nup. But then (INAUDIBLE) coming out of the woodwork so now she was able to --
(CROSS TALKING)
SMITH: What he means to say is --
BEHAR: So the pre-nup is not worth the paper it`s written on.
SMITH: Exactly. That`s what he means to say.
FELDER: Unless you got something to hide and you`re making hundreds of millions of dollars from endorsements and then that`s more important.
SMITH: What I love about all of this is that it`s gotten to a point here in this country where women are going to have to finally stand up and acknowledge that evidently marriage isn`t all about love and devotion and everything everybody is singing about. Apparently it`s a business deal. Apparently it`s a business deal -- $750 million or 6 or 5 or 4. I don`t know what it is. But two-thirds of what the man earns.
She never hit a 9 iron that we know of other than the night of the accident in question.
SOUTER: Now, what it comes down is that he should have been faithful.
SMITH: Oh, I understand that. Don`t get me wrong. I`m not absolving him from anything that he has done. He was wrong, he was egregious, he was insulting. He had humiliated her. Everything was embarrassment. I get all of that.
But my point is that does not entitle you to a majority of this man`s wealth because you are embarrassed. You are humiliated. This is utterly ridiculous.
BEHAR: He said it was ok to give it to her.
(CROSS TALKING)
SMITH: Because they`re thinking about the up side; the earning potential that he has down the road, et cetera. What I`m saying to you is I`m from the old school. I`m not thinking about what I can get, I`m thinking about what I have. And what I have doesn`t mean that you`re entitled to it.
BEHAR: I agree with that. I would agree with that.
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: How do they know he`s going to keep hitting those balls?
FELDER: They don`t know. But he`s got a pretty good track record.
SOUTER: He does.
SMITH: No, no, no. Don`t say he does like he`ll be ok.
BEHAR: He`s the greatest golfer in the world.
(CROSS TALKING)
FELDER: But he makes most of his money from the endorsements.
SMITH: Listen, they projected that he made a billion dollars. $900 million of it came from endorsements, et cetera. I`m not trying to sit here and imply that Tiger Woods is not still great. He`s still the number one golfer in the world. I`m sure he`ll make it.
But what I`m saying to you is that this man when he was swinging those golf clubs in Stanford, when he was swinging those golf clubs when he annihilated everybody when he won his first match, I didn`t see Elin around. I`m sorry, I didn`t see her anywhere. Not at the time.
This was years before she came along. So what I`m saying is this -- you were accumulating that wealth. You were building that brand. You had established yourself as number one in the world. All of a sudden because things don`t work, you are supposed to give her two-thirds of your money? That`s insanity.
BEHAR: We hear you. Now not only is she getting two-thirds of the money, but she`s also getting sole custody, physical custody of the children. You don`t mind that? Give the kids away. He`s fine with that.
SMITH: No, I`m saying that she deserves to have the kids as long as they have shared custody.
SOUTER: I mean he doesn`t have to be a part of their life but she also has the right to say what kind of lifestyle they`re going to be a part of.
BEHAR: Why does she deserve to have the kids? He`s their father. Why aren`t you as easy on him --
SMITH: Because the profession that he`s in, the fact that he has to travel. He`s mobile. All those things come into the equation. And obviously the way that he was living his life, clearly he`s not home supervising the children, 24/7. We understand that.
FELDER: There`s something much more interesting here. He can`t have unmarried female present when he has the kids until after he`s married. So in other words, he has to take pot luck and see how the new wife was going to work out with the kids.
SOUTER: It is fair for her to demand what kind of women who is going to be around --
(CROSS TALKING)
SMITH: Let`s not cross the line here. The story said that they`re not allowed to be around anybody unless that`s the person he`s going to marry or he thinks he`s going to marry.
BEHAR: I`m not sure if it`s going to marry --
SMITH: But here`s the deal, here`s my problem with that. If you`re a parent, it might be that you want to see this person around your kids before you decide whether you want to marry them or not.
FELDER: Yes.
SMITH: Why didn`t that come into the equation?
BEHAR: That`s true.
SOUTHER: But you said something about where she`s coming from. I mean look at all the women that he`s chosen --
BEHAR: They`re a bunch of --
SMITH: She didn`t know about it, and so clearly the kids didn`t know about it either.
BEHAR: Listen, you wouldn`t want your kids around these girls.
You won`t want your kids around these girls.
SMITH: And I`m saying I would.
BEHAR: Now, that is not the biggest tab. Rupert Murdoch paid his wife $1.7 billion. Then Michael Jordan, his wife got $168 million. Why did she get so much?
SMITH: I`m still asking myself that question.
FELDER: He had it.
(CROSS TALKING)
SMITH: I never saw her dunk. I never her hit a jump shot. I never saw any of that stuff.
SOUTER: Well, she was with him from the beginning.
SMITH: Oh, really. Are you sure about that? I covered the NBA and let me tell you something right. Michael Jordan didn`t come into the league married. Michael Jordan when he dropped 63 points in Boston Gardens, he wasn`t married at that time.
(CROSS TALKING)
SMITH: Michael Jordan was a star before he got married. I`m not saying she doesn`t deserve money. I`m not saying --
SOUTER: She was also loyal. The golden wife who took care of his home and his children.
SMITH: So you say. We don`t know that. We know what he did, supposedly. We don`t know what she did.
BEHAR: If he was just a boring, let`s say, insurance salesman or something, would you be this adamant about this?
SOUTER: No, he wouldn`t.
BEHAR: Is it because he`s a big celebrity?
SMITH: I have a problem with the fact that you, for whatever reason, because we never know what`s going on in people`s bedrooms, you for whatever reason has decided that you don`t want to be with this person any longer so they have to pay you to go away. I got a problem with that.
SOUTER: There`s a real reason --
SMITH: I have a problem with that.
SOUTER: No, they`re paying you for the life that you dedicated to them and then it didn`t work out.
FELDER: What about the life that I dedicated to them.
SMITH: What about the life they dedicated to me that they didn`t deliver on?
BEHAR: You know, Raoul, here`s the thing --
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: You know what`s sad about this whole story. I got $300 a month.
FELDER: See that?
BEHAR: Ok. Now, Madonna`s husband, for example, Guy Richie, has millions of his own. But she had to pay him. How much did she pay him? A lot, a lot of money. How much?
$76 million.
SMITH: I have more of a problem with that particular case because I don`t believe any man should want money from a woman. Go out there and work.
SOUTER: Well no one has ever got -- and it`s different. It`s Madonna money. He`d have Madonna money.
SMITH: Yes. He`s not entitled to her money. See, I`m not being -- notice how I`m not being gender biased. Notice how I`m a man and I`m sitting out here calling out that man. That man has no business going after Madonna`s money. Get out there and earn an honest living.
BEHAR: How do you like this new information about Diandra Douglas trying to get more money out of Michael Douglas?
SMITH: I think that`s disgusting.
BEHAR: That was it. But that`s in her -- Raoul, tell them.
(CROSS TALKING)
FELDER: It`s money she can get from spin-offs but she can`t get from sequels that she says --
SMITH: Did you negotiate that deal?
FELDER: No, I`m not included in there. I would have spelled it out correctly if I did. So she says this is -- he says it`s a sequel not a spin-off and she said it`s a spin-off and not a sequel.
BEHAR: Oh, it`s the same thing.
FELDER: Yes of course, no, no, it`s different. A spin-off mean is when you have a hit show and one of the characters --
SMITH: She doesn`t deserve a dime. They`re divorced.
SOUTER: Bottom line, divorce is expensive just watch it.
FELDER: She got $45 million, this is 22 years later.
SMITH: Yes.
BEHAR: I`m going to warn whoever you are going with right now, do not marry him. Do not marry Stephen at all.
FELDER: The best advice is meet somebody you hate.
BEHAR: Ok, coming -- thank you guys.
Coming up in the half hour, not only is Mel Gibson homophobic and anti-Semitic, it turns out he might be a racist, too. He`s a little -- he`s literally a triple threat this guy. You will not believe the story about his latest tirades.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: In the year since Michael Jackson`s death, his estate has reportedly earned more than $250 million. So could it be that Michael, like many celebrities, is worth more dead than alive? Can I just say that no one is going to sell any Joy Behar collector`s plates after I`m gone. I don`t want a stranger eating egg salad off my face just to seek (ph) vacation in Kabul. I`m just saying.
Here now to discuss how celebrities make money after their deaths, are John Carter Cash, the son of Johnny Cash and June Carter Cash; Ray Charles Jr., the son of Ray Charles, and the author of "You Don`t Know Me: reflections of My Father Ray Charles"; and from MTV News, Kurt Loder.
Ok, guys, Kurt, does it surprise you that Michael Jackson`s estate made that much money last year?
KURT LODER, MTV NEWS: No, I think he was an important part of people`s childhoods, their lives, he`s a major figure. And there`s an -- and I notice emotional outpouring. So you are not surprised to see all this product being bought. How long it will go on is another question.
BEHAR: Well, how long do you think it will go on?
LODER: For how long will people keep buying in these amounts is bound to taper off a little bit at some point. But he was very important to a lot of people.
BEHAR: A lot of -- and his image is interesting, too.
LODER: That`s right.
BEHAR: With the hat, the look, the dance.
LODER: There`s an emotional story to it.
BEHAR: Yes and there`s a whole story to it, of course. And would it pay off his debt? I heard that he was in debt when he died.
LODER: Well, that would take a lot of money. I think he was deeply, deeply, deeply in debt.
BEHAR: Really?
LODER: There`s a lot of money involved.
BEHAR: But what can I say, his estate made $50 million this year or something.
LODER: I don`t think that begins to --
BEHAR: Yes, $250 million this year. He was in debt for more than that?
LODER: He might well have been. Yes, I wouldn`t be surprised.
BEHAR: Wow. I didn`t know that. Who is responsible for managing his estate?
LODER: His two lawyers.
BEHAR: Two lawyers that he has.
LODER: I mean, that -- that sounds bad, but the two guys are managing his estate. So who cares?
BEHAR: Why does it sound bad? The two lawyers.
LODER: They`re lawyers.
BEHAR: Yes.
LODER: But the -- they are responsible for the Sony deal for the $250 million and they`re doing a good job for him even in his absence.
BEHAR: Yes, if he were here, he`d be enjoying it.
LODER: He would.
BEHAR: Now, so -- this is a silly question. But he`s dead, so he can`t spend it. So maybe that`s one of the reasons it`s accumulating money.
LODER: It`s still there yes.
BEHAR: Yes.
LODER: That`s true.
BEHAR: Yes, ok. So John, your father, Johnny Cash, he passed in 2003, right?
JOHN CARTER CASH, SON OF JOHNNY CASH: Correct, yes, ma`am.
BEHAR: And how has your father`s estate done since his death?
CASH: Well, my father`s estate has continued, you know, to be viable definitely. I mean, my dad, before he passed away, set in motion the wheels, and my mother June Carter Cash, to make the film "Walk the Line".
The film itself when it came out did a great deal to bring my father`s image to the public`s eye. And dad really was the executive producer on that film, even though I`m credited as. My mother and father are the ones who got the wheels in motion. It`s something that they created. It`s something that they began.
We tried to continue the estate with the same respect and morality issues and trying to run it the way that he would have run it. It`s something that dad created, it`s something that he began. And there is no stopping it, really.
BEHAR: I love that movie, too. Johnny Cash was number three on the list of the richest estates of dead musicians for 2009, just as a factoid. Does the family have control of the estate and the transactions?
CASH: Yes, ma`am.
BEHAR: He does, you do.
CASH: Yes, ma`am.
BEHAR: Ok. Ray, that`s not the case with you, is it? Your family does not have control of the estate, does it?
RAY CHARLES, JR., SON OF RAY CHARLES: No, we do not.
BEHAR: Why is that?
CHARLES, JR.: Well, we`ve been blocked. We`ve been blocked out of the foundation itself. We have no knowledge of where the money goes. We get no statements. We do not participate in any decisions about what transpires with his name and likeness. They have the musical coming Ray Charles Live.
This is all done without the family being any part of the plans or receiving any kind of royalties at all. We`ve been totally blocked out.
BEHAR: And I was reading that Ray Charles` music catalog and his franchise were valued at $75 million in 2008. Who is getting the money, if that`s so?
CHARLES, JR.: Well, it`s going to the foundation, but as I stated before, we have not gotten one statement. No one`s invited us even to -- to even discuss the celebration of his 80th birthday. Not one financial matter has been discussed with his family.
BEHAR: Is there any legal --
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: -- is there any legal way for you to get control of any of it? Is there anything you can do?
CHARLES, JR.: Well -- well, fortunately, I mean, we`re trying to bring it to the public`s eye because it costs a fortune to bring these kind of matters to -- to court. And they`re basically going to say well, these are Ray Charles` wishes and I say my father was blind.
Those documents ultimately will be spoken about in the court of law and challenged as well. They have done their very best to keep their business very quiet and, for the media`s sake, I mean, there are a lot of ways that you can go and investigate on your own and make the decisions for yourself. And they have a case where they settled out of court or in court where they sealed those transcripts.
And I think all the answers that you`re looking for will be there in why we are not part of the foundation.
BEHAR: That`s kind of tragic isn`t it, Kurt.
LODER: It is.
BEHAR: That you know that family --
LODER: Ray, what -- Ray what was the -- wasn`t the case the family`s suit brought up in U.S. District Court in California last year and the judge decided against the family. What happened there?
CHARLES, JR.: Well, I mean, the Legacy lawsuit is really kind of complex. Basically it was a lawsuit launched by our Brother Corey Robinson and his mother Maryann Dembock. But this is a situation where that corporation was owned by Corey, run by his mother.
We did not own shares in that company --
BEHAR: Yes.
CHARLES, JR.: -- nor were we involved in that lawsuit.
BEHAR: I guess there`s nothing that they can do. There`s nothing they can do.
CHARLES, JR.: Well, I mean, basically she was stating that she was speaking on our behalf. I made a statement to "The L.A. Times" ok, that she did not represent us and we say in (INAUDIBLE) made that statement to "The L.A. Times."
BEHAR: It`s interesting I mean, the way these -- how these dead celebrities make all this money --
LODER: Yes.
BEHAR: -- after they`re gone. You have to be a big, big name.
LODER: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, Elvis Presley, Marilyn Monroe --
LODER: Yes.
BEHAR: -- James Dean`s estate is still making money. And you know Pricilla Presley, she opened up Graceland and I guess --
LODER: Right.
BEHAR: -- Lisa Presley has been investing the money very intelligently.
LODER: They`re very smart.
BEHAR: They`re very, very wealthy. LODER: You have to be a certain kind of artist. You have to resound in American culture.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A legend.
BEHAR: You have to be legendary I think. It`s important. And to have an interesting story, you have to have a look.
Ok guys. Sit tight. We`ll continue this after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel and we`re talking about artists whose estates make lots of money long after the stars are gone.
The rapper Tupac was murdered in 1996 and has released more albums after his death than while he was living. How is that possible?
LODER: I think before Tupac died he was in the studio. It`s almost as if he knew he was going to die. He was churning stuff out.
CASH: My father also, I have say, he was doing the same thing. But my dad, he gave it his life`s greatest heart right there at the end. And he had a record come out, you know, this year, "American Six". And to me it`s his greatest work. I mean it was his most heartfelt work. He worked harder on it than any other thing he ever did.
LODER: He was great right up to the end.
BEHAR: By way, "Walk the Line" and "Ray" are both great films.
LODER: They are.
BEHAR: I love both those movies.
Jimi Hendrix, the great guitarist, rock `n` roll singer, he died in 1970. Since his death more than 40 albums have been released.
LODER: Yes, many of them trash but --
BEHAR: Is this a case of people releasing anything just to make money?
LODER: Yes. Early on.
CHARLES, JR.: And it was a matter of control, too.
BEHAR: It was a matter of control. Go ahead.
CHARLES, JR.: Yes. It was a matter of control. It was a matter of control, who was really the executor of the estate, the rights, everybody was basically prostituting the rights everywhere and it was sad because that music was simply fantastic.
I believe his father has the rights back now. And I believe that everything will be in order at this point.
CASH: Interesting note about my dad, he kept creating that music throughout his whole life. But his posthumous records, the records that we released, "American Five" and "American Six" were both records that he worked very, very hard on. And they were not only that, they`re records that he believed in all the way through it.
And Rick Rubin, who was a producer on the records, made sure that the very best work was what was released. We`re grateful for that.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about today`s artists as little bit Kurt. I mean who -- is Madonna going to be in this category 50 years from now?
LODER: Yes. I think so. She`s very talented.
BEHAR: You think so.
LODER: Yes.
Lady Gaga is very talented.
BEHAR: But Lady Gaga is just really -- it`s a gimmick.
LODER: Well, I think without Madonna, would there be a Lady Gaga?
BEHAR: Probably not.
LODER: But she`s a very talented woman. Jay-z is really talented, Beyonce, I think --
BEHAR: Yes.
LODER: Yes, Eminem --
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: so you think when they pass on to the next world, their image will continue to make money, Beyonce, Jay-Z, Madonna, Lady Gaga?
LODER: They won`t have money in the next world.
BEHAR: Cyndi Lauper?
LODER: I don`t know.
CHARLES, JR.: I believe that if they can play their songs 30 years from now and it evokes emotion the same way the first time that you heard at song, then I say that they`re immortal.
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: I don`t think it`s just music people as we talked about before. Marilyn Monroe, James Dean. These people, their images are still out there also.
LODER: They`re important in people`s lives. And you just keep that with you throughout your life. Never let that go.
CASH: I got to say my dad and Ray`s father, Ray, your father, were very good friends. I found some letters --
CHARLES, JR.: Yes, they were.
CASH: -- not long ago. Yes. They were very good friends. They recorded a song together in the early `80s.
CHARLES, JR.: Yes, they did.
CASH: Yet unreleased. But it`s wonderful to hear that.
BEHAR: I also think that another person to mention in this category is --
CASH: We should talk about that.
CHARLES, JR.: Yes, man. Love to see that happen. I don`t have a copy, myself.
BEHAR: We`ve run out of time. But I was going to say Sinatra is another one.
LODER: He`s another one, yes.
BEHAR: He`s still --
LODER: He`ll always be here.
BEHAR: That music will always be there. And no one is ever going to be like that again.
Thank you very much, everybody.
We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: He`s back. Mel Gibson is at it again. TMZ confirms that the actor was caught on tape screaming at his baby mama Oksana Grigorieva. Here with the details is somebody who knows what`s on the tape. Mike Walters from TMZ. Mike, what does he say?
MIKE WALTERS, TMZ: Well, you know what? These tapes, they`re unbelievable. And I can tell you two things. Number one, they`re going to court today to figure out how these got out, so you know that they`re real because Mel Gibson wants to know. Here`s what they say. And this is the saddest thing about Mel Gibson. I can`t even say them on "HEADLINE NEWS" or CNN. But I can tell you basically he said to his baby mamma, if you`re raped by a pack of n-words, that it`s probably going to be your fault. And he used that word, after all Mel Gibson`s background, Joy, we talked about it before, after what he said about the Jewish community, it is DYRS how can he you this word? And is this the real Mel Gibson?
BEHAR: Well it kind of goes with being an anti-Semite, you`re a racist also. I mean those things go together. So I`m not surprised that he would use the n-word in that context. And it`s anti-female. I`ve read the statements. He`s a real beauty. And I hope this ruins his career. How are you -- I mean, you know it`s him now, right? We`re sure that it`s his tape, before I go on a tear here.
WALTERS: Well, he`s going to court today to try to figure out at 1:30 how they got out. So I think that kind of proves - you know, he would be denying these were real if that was going on. But just so you know, the other thing that he said -- and to women, this is his baby`s mother, Oksana we are talking about. He says you look like an f`ing pig in heat. I mean these are the things that Mel Gibson says to the person he loves, to his baby mamma. Guess what, Mel Gibson, if you`re listening, you have a lot of fans out there including African-Americans, women, Jewish community, Jewish people, I can`t believe that we`re actually going through this one more time. Remember Joy, I worked on that DYRS when we broke that story. I was there. I feel like I`m going through deja vu right now.
BEHAR: OK, very interesting. This is -- I mean I sort of expected something like this to happen. You know when somebody does what he did in the first place, you wait for the other shoe to drop and it has dropped.
WALTERS: Well I`ll tell you what I mean I`ve talked to Reverend Jesse Jackson today, the NAACP. And guess what Joy, they`re saying he`s out of control. And because Mel Gibson, is wealthy, Mel Gibson is famous. He`s one of the biggest people in Hollywood, but he`s out of control.
BEHAR: Yes.
WALTERS: And he`s an anti-Semite or a racist, I don`t know if you can control Mel Gibson. That`s just the way it is.
BEHAR: Thanks very much, Mike.
WALTERS: All right, Joy.
BEHAR: By the way, we`ve reached out to Mel`s reps and haven`t heard back. Now I want to turn to Jay Thomas, actor, comedian and Sirius/XM talk show host and also Jane Pratt another Sirius/XM talk show host. Welcome guys.
JAY THOMAS, ACTOR/COMEDIAN: Are we here because we`re close by?
BEHAR: That could be.
THOMAS: We could walk over real fast.
BEHAR: You are geographically desirable.
THOMAS: Sure.
BEHAR: Are you surprised that he was caught on tape with this rant?
JANE PRATT, HOST, SIRIUS XM RADIO: Well I don`t know because I think I`m not surprised. Because I think he`s probably saying that stuff all the time. So she figured let me get a little bit of it on tape.
BEHAR: What do you think?
THOMAS: Do Jews run in packs also? I think that she`s a scumbag. I think he`s a scumbag. And they got together. She recorded him.
BEHAR: What did she do to him?
PRATT: How did she get to be a scumbag.
THOMAS: She used a tape recorder.
BEHAR: So what -
THOMAS: It is a private conversation.
BEHAR: I`d do the same thing if I was married to him.
PRATT: Absolutely.
THOMAS: I don`t - you know I was one night at a party with Timothy Dalton who was her concubine prior to him.
BEHAR: I think she`s the concubine.
PRATT: He was the --
BEHAR: Whatever it is.
PRATT: Her escort.
BEHAR: His whatever she is is with Mel Gibson. Then she recorded a record and she hurried up and she has a kid with the guy and all. I just think they`re not -- you know, because you`re in Hollywood, because you`re an actor, and you know this. It doesn`t mean you`re smart and it doesn`t mean that you`re a nice person because you can act or direct a movie. So why are we all -- and he and Michael Richards ought to do a buddy movie after this. I mean they ought to just get it over with, you know?
BEHAR: Well I think that -- I agree with some of what you`re saying, but I really don`t think she`s equally culpable in this situation.
THOMAS: Why not?
BEHAR: I mean even if she`s a gold digger, still she doesn`t deserve the names that he called her. There are other quotes which I`m not saying right this moment.
THOMAS: Well we don`t know what she said before that. Suppose she edited it.
BEHAR: It doesn`t matter - are you one of these people that she deserved to get hit?
PRATT: It doesn`t matter - if he -
THOMAS: No, no.
BEHAR: All right.
THOMAS: Suppose she called him an a-hole Australian, I don`t know. She could have said --
PRATT: Yes but that`s not the same as being called -- he called her apparently the c-word -
THOMAS: Right.
PRATT: Which we don`t need to say. No one should ever say.
BEHAR: That`s really - on the c-word -
THOMAS: And also he said she was overweight or fat and sometimes Russian women do plump up.
BEHAR: You`re a pleasure. Is his career over?
THOMAS: Mine? I`m fine --
BEHAR: No, yours, yes. Yours is definitely over. Is Mel`s career over?
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
PRATT: I hope Mel`s is over. I never want to go see anything he does. Haven`t wanted to for years.
THOMAS: A certain group will.
PRATT: I think he can use some help with his drinking.
THOMAS: At least a vacation -
PRATT: With a lot of his issues.
BEHAR: All right, we have more quotes here. And that`s not all, he goes on to say, how dare you act like such a bitch when I have been so (EXPLETIVE DELETED) nice. I am going to come home and burn the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) house down but you will blow me first. Does that sound like a --
THOMAS: It sounds like he`s going to get a show on Sirius XM, to me. That`s the kind of talent we`re looking for over there. Yes.
PRATT: So you`re going to blow me first. As long as he gets that first.
THOMAS: Boy I`ll tell you.
BEHAR: There`s a custody issue here, you know.
THOMAS: I know one thing. My wife would not like that kind of talk.
BEHAR: Exactly.
THOMAS: No, only the last line. Everything else she`d be fine with. Burn the house down, you know. I`d rather be in the house, you know. But the last thing is not going to happen.
BEHAR: Is he mentally unstable, this guy, or a run of the mill racist idiot? What`s the story?
PRATT: I think he`s a racist misogynist idiot. But can I say also, I just remembered something. I was once in a lineup of girls that we were sort of -- we wanted to interview him, OK, when I was working for a TV show "EXTRA." and they were judging us -- his people were judging us based on how we looked as to whether we should be able to interview him because he responds better to certain types. But I didn`t make the cut. See otherwise I could be the one right now being called all these lovely things.
BEHAR: So you are saying that he`s a looksist -
PRATT: He`s a looksist -
THOMAS: You think you would have been him --
PRATT: Never in a million years -
BEHAR: I want a chance with another story.
THOMAS: Sure.
BEHAR: In the news. Portland police have reopened the investigation into allegations that former Vice President Al Gore let his fingers do the walking with a massage therapist in 2006. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then he wrapped me in an inescapable embrace as I turned around. Giving me this come hither look deep into my eyes and caressed my back and buttocks and breasts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Al Gore denies the accusations. With me now is Ann Yeager reporter from KGW in Portland, why was this case reopened?
ANN YEAGER, KGW - PORTLAND, OR: Joy the case was reopened for a variety of reasons. First and foremost detectives never interview the former Vice President Al Gore. Also they say they didn`t follow what they call procedural issues. In other words, they interviewed the accuser in this case, Molly Haggerty. However, after they interviewed her, they didn`t bring the case to a captain or commander to be able to say, maybe we should go with this case, maybe we shouldn`t go with this case, things of that matter. And also, you can`t deny that there was a huge media pressure involved in this. I had a detective tell me that they had networks literally parked outside police headquarters. So for those reasons, they decided to reopen this criminal investigation.
BEHAR: OK what has she said to "The National Enquirer"? Because she gave a whole story?
YEAGAR: She did. She said to "The National Enquirer" that she says she has the evidence to prove it. She has DNA from pants that she was wearing during this massage that has DNA that she says belongs to Al Gore. She also has a chocolate bar that he was eating during the course of before or after this allegedly happened. She also says that she has a witness and, in fact, a witness has come forward to "The National Enquirer" basically saying that after all this happened, that Haggerty called her in a panic, basically backed up her story. So here we have a new witness. "The National Enquirer" says we have this DNA evidence, we have this chocolate bar and also the question why police did not -- I know you`re laughing about the chocolate bar.
BEHAR: Yes.
YEAGAR: They`re also wondering -- they`re also wondering why Portland police did not take this seriously by taking a look at the surveillance tape from the hotel immediately after she left. She was distraught, upset, never looked at it.
BEHAR: OK thanks very much, Anne. So what do you think about this?
THOMAS: Well let`s take the chocolate bar has got to be a payday.
(LAUGHTER)
THOMAS: I ran the entire 26-minute deposition that she gave to someone yesterday.
BEHAR: Yes.
THOMAS: And in my estimation, she`s nutty herself.
BEHAR: She`s lying, you think?
THOMAS: No, I didn`t think she was lying. She`s kind of nutty. It`s 10:30 at night. You know when you get a knot in your back?
BEHAR: Yes, I have one right now.
THOMAS: He probably didn`t know what he was doing. But the fact that she kept socks and shoes and the candy bar and all? He picked the wrong nut, that`s all.
PRATT: She wants to be Monica Lewinsky, but she`s only partway there.
THOMAS: Right.
BEHAR: She says she has evidence. She has surveillance footage, a witness and stained pants.
PRATT: I believe -- I believe her.
BEHAR: You believe or you don`t believe her?
PRATT: I believe it happened. That`s the line of work she`s in. That happens all the time.
BEHAR: What a masseuse?
PRATT: Masseuses that go to hotels?
BEHAR: Oh I`ve had that -- I`ve had a massage in a hotel.
PRATT: I`ve had them too -
THOMAS: You ever had a normal massage.
BEHAR: I`ve called at 10:00 and made the appointment.
PRATT: I`ve got them, too. And I`ve gotten them with the women that give them. And it`s not uncommon for men like Mel Gibson, for example.
THOMAS: He`s kind of like Bill Clinton`s slow stepbrother. He doesn`t know how to do it.
BEHAR: That`s true, right.
THOMAS: Right but also for you guys out there, if a woman, if your DNA is all over the room, before you leave, mix it with some soap, the wet spot with some soap --
BEHAR: This is like a laundry tip?
THOMAS: Exactly. Why do guys leave their DNA all over the room. I mean you have to like clean up.
BEHAR: Do you do windows?
THOMAS: Yes.
BEHAR: Thanks, everybody very much. Up next Maureen Dowd joins me thanks, guys.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: When most women want some fun in the sun, they go to Hawaii or Cabo, not Saudi Arabia, where their tan lines will be on their ankles. But "New York Times" columnist Maureen Dowd isn`t most people. She went there for ten days to see what it`s like to be in a country where women aren`t even allowed to drive. The story of her experience is in the August issue of "Vanity Fair." hey, Maureen, welcome to the show.
MAUREEN DOWD, NEW YORK TIMES: Thanks, Joy.
BEHAR: Why did you decide to go to Saudi Arabia in June? It must be 150 degrees there.
DOWD: Well, it`s their winter, but it`s still 150 degrees, yes.
BEHAR: Oh, it`s their winter?
DOWD: Yes. I`ve been hearing for years that they were interested in starting a tourism business in Saudi Arabia, but of course, they`re never going to because it`s the most closed place on earth. And it`s also the hardest place for a woman to travel on earth. So I pestered them and pestered them and finally they let me in to be a tourist.
BEHAR: But they`re a trip, isn`t it?
DOWD: But I went with President Bush, it was right after 9/11 and the Prince Saud, the foreign minister came to the "New York Times" editorial board and he said if any of you want to come and see we`re not all you know -- it was 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. And he said we`re not all terrorists. And if anyone wants to come. And I was like, I`d like to come.
BEHAR: Sure.
DOWD: So I went that time. And then this was the third trip. But this time I was trying to -- I mean, you can never be a normal tourist there and certainly not as a woman, but I was trying to see what they would consider their sights that they would like to show off.
BEHAR: Oh, I see. It was like a frommer`s trip.
DOWD: Right.
BEHAR: One of those Saudi on five dollars a day.
DOWD: Five zillion.
BEHAR: Did it change at all the three times?
DOWD: Yes. The way it`s changed is when I first went there women were covered in head to toe in black abaayas, now they`re still covered in head to toe to black abaayas, but they have little trim on the cuffs.
BEHAR: Oh boy.
DOWD: They have like Burberry or Swarovski crystals. Or on the back they might have a little design. So that for them that`s a huge change.
BEHAR: Yes I see so you said, I think you said in the article, it`s like a snail on Ambien, the change there.
DOWD: It`s like the biggest, you know, this was a huge feminist gesture that recently King Abdullah posed with a bunch of women. It was like the whole country was in shock that he was in a picture with women.
BEHAR: Wow. What made him do that?
DOWD: Because he is, by Saudi standards, he`s a radical reformer. He actually has opened a coed university and even though there`s a fatwa against the sexes mingling. But he`s trying. But things that seem -- you know, women still can`t drive there.
BEHAR: Right.
DOWD: In 1990, they all got in cars and tried to drive. But they still --
BEHAR: Somebody was on Youtube with that. Is that the Youtube story?
DOWD: Oh you mean the more recent one?
BEHAR: That`s more recent.
DOWD: Oh that`s such a weird story because while I was there one of these crazy clerics put out a fatwa and said that in order for women to be around strange men, like their drivers or the guy who deliver bread, maybe they should give them some of their breast milk which would officially kind of make them a family member.
BEHAR: Directly from the breast or pumped out?
DOWD: Pumped out. But in response, some of the women said, we want to drive, so maybe we should let drivers breast feed.
BEHAR: That`s an unusual tip, I`ll tell you right now.
DOWD: The Saudis have this fear of being seen by the rest of the world as aliens, but then they do these things that make them seem by the rest of the world as aliens. So it`s a vicious circle.
BEHAR: Exactly, do the women are trying to get out of that driving thing. It must really slow everybody down.
DOWD: Well some of them like the rich spoiled women like having drivers. The same as women in Hollywood.
BEHAR: Exactly.
DOWD: They don`t want, you know to drive, they like it that way. But the other women do.
BEHAR: I see the pictures which are phenomenal pictures of you in your Abaaya.
DOWD: Yes, Ashley Parker who is the "New York Times" reporter came with me and took those pictures.
BEHAR: Well look at that one, what`s on your face there?
DOWD: That`s on the Red Sea. So we were fooling around. That`s like scuba diving gear.
BEHAR: But I mean how did you like that? It must be so hot underneath that thing?
DOWD: It`s so hot. You look like a mummy and you feel like a pizza oven. So bad. Aaron Sorkin from "The West Wing" called it, he said that it`s an outfit that would make a nun look like Malibu Barbie. It is so restrictive.
BEHAR: I see.
DOWD: And Barbie is banned there by the way.
BEHAR: Barbie is banned.
DOWD: Yes.
BEHAR: Well of course, she should be banned her also.
DOWD: Yes, before she got slutty. She was banned, yes.
BEHAR: What about the burqini? I mean that thing is --
DOWD: The burqini is so hilarious. We sent -- there`s an Australian company that sells them online. And it`s -- yes, it disproves what all New York women think, that basic black is flattering.
BEHAR: Not always. But you know what -
DOWD: It looks like the sperm in you know Woody Allen`s "Everything You Want To Know About Sex."
BEHAR: it does have that look. But you can have cellulite under there. No one knows.
DOWD: As a tourist, I was trying to embrace oppression. There`s never a bad hair day, right?
BEHAR: Never a bad hair day.
DOWD: You don`t need sun block. You can`t jog.
BEHAR: But you went and got -- you went to try to buy lingerie. They have a lingerie section. Sexy hot lingerie.
DOWD: Well that`s another huge feminist thing that`s happened there in the last couple of years. Women can sell lingerie to women. It used to be men selling to women.
BEHAR: Really?
DOWD: So that`s another big advance there, but yes.
BEHAR: Men would sell lingerie to women in the past.
DOWD: Yes.
BEHAR: They thought that that was less radical than women selling it?
DOWD: Well because most women don`t work in Saudi Arabia.
BEHAR: So the women are getting jobs now?
DOWD: Yes, they`re starting to. But the lingerie thing is really interesting because one time when I went there in 2002 I was with Adel Al- Jubeir who is now the Saudi ambassador to the United States. And I was in a mall. And we were just wing around. I was fully covered with a scarf but these religious police and they tried to arrest me. And if I hadn`t been with an aide to the king, I would have been arrest pd they said we can see the outline of your body. I`m just like completely -- well, they couldn`t understand what I was saying. But the funny part was they did it in front of a lingerie store, in front of a red teddy.
BEHAR: Oh I see.
DOWD: So everything underneath, the whole thing about Saudi Arabia is it`s under veils and behind walls.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, but they might find that more sexy.
DOWD: Yes, they do.
BEHAR: OK, we`ll be back with more from Maureen Dowd after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with "New York Times" columnist and "Vanity Fair" contributor, Maureen Dowd. You know, I`ve been watching a little bit of Elena Kagan`s confirmation hearings. Have you been watching them?
DOWD: Mm-hmm.
BEHAR: She`s quite charming, isn`t she.
DOWD: Quite charming.
BEHAR: She`s funny.
DOWD: Funny.
BEHAR: And she made that joke about, what`s his name, Jeff Sessions said to her, what did you do on Christmas?
DOWD: Right.
BEHAR: And she said, like every Jew, I went for Chinese food. Why does he have to ask her what she did on Christmas? Was there a reason? Did it connect to something else?
DOWD: I know. The Republicans are trying to get some traction, but they`re not. At first they were doing it by sort of dissing Thurgood Marshall who is such an amazing man.
BEHAR: He`s a saint.
DOWD: He`s a saint. But the funny thing about Elena Kagan is there is a story in the politico today by Roger Simon who said the congress is so lame and they`re eliciting so little information if her, it would be much better from the ladies of THE VIEW to do the Supreme Court vetting.
BEHAR: You know that is a great idea. We would rake every one of them over the coals. Clarence Thomas would have never passed or Alito or Scalia, none of them.
DOWD: No. But she`s been very charming. And she and Petraeus are both -- they know how to play the game. They know how to climb the ladder. And they`re going to get there.
BEHAR: It`s a shoo-in, isn`t it? A no brainer.
DOWD: Exactly.
BEHAR: It seems to me a Democratic president will put in a liberal judge, a conservative president put in a conservative judge. So there`s not really anything to discuss any more, is there?
DOWD: Yes my only question about her and maybe I would expect too much is I went to the play the other night about Thurgood Marshall with Laurence Fishburne. And so amazing. For the Supreme Court, you want someone really amazing.
BEHAR: Yes, you do.
DOWD: Like the liberal version of Scalia to balance out and is she that? But I guess we won`t know until she`s on there.
BEHAR: right that would be nice. But they`ll never pass her. Somebody like Scalia got passed. The Democrats are easier --
DOWD: No, I know, just sometimes you want to swing for if fences as opposed to just do the careful.
BEHAR: He`s so careful isn`t he, but you know he`s doing -- what do you think? Do you think he`s doing a good job? He`s doing a lot of criticism.
DOWD: Well you know, it`s like watching Job. The things that W. left him and the BP oil spill, you know, are of biblical proportion. He just gets his head out from under one problem and gets another. My only, you know, complaint about him is that sometimes I think he misses moments to connect with the public. Like to hold back. I don`t know if he needs to ride to the rescue or he has that detachment and his mother is an anthropologist and he has that detachment.
BEHAR: Scientific and professorial.
DOWD: Yes you know, yes, just a little, sometimes you want him to come down from the tower.
BEHAR: You know what? He`s not going to. I was married to a professor. I know what they`re like.
DOWD: They never come down.
BEHAR: They never -- there`s something there.
DOWD: But I think you can -- you can be too cool on issues of national security or with the BP oil spill. When Americans are scared, you really got to come out immediately and reassure them and let them know you know what you`re doing and that you are on top of it. You know he is on top of it when he comes out, he knows what he`s talking about, unlike W. where you felt if his notes blew away, he wouldn`t know what he was saying. But on the other hand, Obama just misses that moment to connect.
BEHAR: I know. I wish he would. George Bush had so many faux past that it was part of my stand-up act. I didn`t even have to tell a joke, I just read them. Thanks for joining me.
DOWD: Thanks Joy, I`m a big fan.
BEHAR: Yes, thank you, and check out Maureen`s piece in the newest issue of "Vanity Fair." go to vanityfair.com to see more photos. She`s gorgeous in them. Goodnight everybody.
END
