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Joy Behar Page

Cyndi Lauper Having Fun; Lips Unsealed

Aired July 09, 2010 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Cyndi Lauper`s got a new CD. And believe it or not it`s a blues album called "Memphis Blues". She went from "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" to "Shattered Dreams".

Is she eager to show up for versatility or is the Prozac just not working, Cyndi?

CYNDI LAUPER, SINGER: All right. No, I can`t take the Prozac. I can`t.

BEHAR: No, no, no, no.

LAUPER: I can`t stand still that long.

BEHAR: To take the pill?

LAUPER: Well, yes, that, too.

BEHAR: Well it doesn`t make you a zombie. It just reorganizes your brain in some way, that`s all.

LAUPER: But what would I do if it was reorganized? I wouldn`t be able to write or --

BEHAR: You might be able to write but, I don`t know. I`m not an expert on any of that. Now you know, you`ve always been like a fashion forward pop star. You always have like a look about you that`s gorgeous.

Now, here you are on the cover of "Rolling Stone" in 1984. Let`s look at that. Look at that picture. Now how do you feel when you see that picture?

LAUPER: Well, you know?

BEHAR: Look at you.

LAUPER: I was doing a whole anti-fashion thing at the time. And there were so many cute pictures that we took. The day I saw that picture, I was crying.

BEHAR: Why?

LAUPER: Because I thought that they just wanted me to be the ugly one.

BEHAR: Oh, how could you be ugly? You`re so pretty.

LAUPER: Well, you know, they painted me. What do you mean? I`m a sculptor, I`m a piece of artwork. I don`t really look like this.

BEHAR: Yes, you do.

LAUPER: Oh, yes, you see me on your show. Well, you know, that`s a little different.

BEHAR: But you don`t like the way you look.

But that`s interesting because the new cover of "Rolling Stone" has Lady Gaga on it. And she -- look at the picture of her. She seems to sort of be from a similar cloth, you know. A little bit wacky and out there like you were in 1984.

LAUPER: Well, I think she also like --

BEHAR: But she has guns on her boobs. I mean what`s that about?

LAUPER: And Madonna had the same kind of thing with the Gautier.

BEHAR: Yes, that she did. She had those bullet (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and those were interesting.

LAUPER: I know. But what`s the big deal? Come on.

BEHAR: Oh, this is so cute.

LAUPER: Right? That`s cute.

BEHAR: Who`s is this?

LAUPER: Mine.

BEHAR: I love this.

LAUPER: But you know --

BEHAR: Can I wear this to the Emmys?

LAUPER: You can wear that over your dress. Why not?

BEHAR: That is some brassiere. I love it.

LAUPER: Right. That`s going to be colorful.

BEHAR: But you know the girls in the music business who are coming up now --

LAUPER: Yes.

BEHAR: They seem to need to be crazier and wackier than ever. You know they`re getting called on the carpet for blaspheming the Catholic Church and having sex with rosary beads and God knows what else they`re doing. You know, crazy stuff.

LAUPER: They`re having sex with rosary beads?

BEHAR: Well not exactly like that. But it looks like that. You know, very revealing clothing and they`re flipping the bird. And they are doing crazy things.

LAUPER: Are you talking about Gaga? She never has off -- not one day off.

BEHAR: Not just Gaga, there`s Miley Cyrus who`s in a little bit of hot water for kissing a girl. They seem to have to raise the ante in order to get noticed.

LAUPER: Yes but, you see, Miley`s coming out of that whole child star thing. She`s, you know, who knows what the heck? And also she`s growing up in front of everybody. It`s hard. You know, when you become famous, they don`t give you a handbook.

BEHAR: No, they don`t.

LAUPER: You know, like what to do when somebody`s just up in your face taking picture, taking picture, either I`m going to kiss a girl, tongue kiss a dog, I`m going to do something really awful so they go away because when you work every day, every day, every day, how can you be gracious all the time?

BEHAR: Yes, no -- but I`m not talking really only just about her moods. I`m talking about the fact that they have to be outrageous to get attention. It`s not about the music. Sarah Vaughan, Dina Washington, Ella Fitzgerald, Rosy, I could name a million of them. They all - all they did was sing. Now that`s not enough, right?

LAUPER: Well you know everybody said that about me. And they didn`t think I could sing because my clothes. Somebody actually said this, I couldn`t hear her singing because her clothes were so loud. And I was like, are you kidding me? I don`t want to put the shroud on myself and become like a plain Jane.

BEHAR: No, no, I don`t think there`s any danger of that happening.

LAUPER: I feel plain sometimes.

BEHAR: Really?

LAUPER: Yes. Yes.

BEHAR: Now, you know, you`re a pop star. And your last CD was a dance album.

LAUPER: Yes.

BEHAR: Now, you have a blues album. You keep changing it up, huh?

LAUPER: Well, the blues is the basis of all of it anyway. So it`s like --

BEHAR: Right.

LAUPER: Like going home, back to basics. And you know, I was on the "Apprentice", I was telling you before that I lost my voice speaking. Actually, my teacher`s probably watching me. Make sure shoulders, yawn a bit, OK.

BEHAR: Why did you lose your voice?

LAUPER: I don`t -- apparently I don`t know how to speak.

BEHAR: Were you yelling at somebody?

LAUPER: No, I hold my breath. I don`t have enough -- I don`t, you know, when you --

BEHAR: No breath control.

LAUPER: Talk past your air.

LAUPER: You see? I thought I had big breaths.

BEHAR: Now, you know, you`ve said that this album -- I want to talk about your album for this segment because it`s interesting because "Memphis Blues", you`re saying it`s the right album for the right time. What do you mean by that?

LAUPER: Because America is singing the blues. Because when I was done with the "Apprentice" thing and by the time I could talk again -- and, I`m sorry, speak, excuse my mouth. OK, but I looked around me, and you know, poor New Orleans, they`re not going to -- you know, come on.

So, I found I was listening to this music and the best part of blues is it`s uplifting.

BEHAR: Yes.

LAUPER: And you know, they wrote in code. And this was an oppressed people who wrote uplifting things about their misery. And they wrote it in a way that by the time you`re done with the song, you feel better.

BEHAR: That`s right. That`s a good idea, isn`t it?

LAUPER: Well, I think they`re awesome. So, I went to the civil rights museum when I went to Memphis. And I relived my childhood a little bit looking at everything. Because I was a kid then thinking I`m on the wrong side and the white people are crazy. You know, because --

BEHAR: Is that what you thought?

LAUPER: Well, yeah. I couldn`t understand. Because you know, when you turn on the radio and the best stuff is from the African- American people.

BEHAR: That`s true.

LAUPER: I`m listening to that going, yes. And then they got a problem with them. Then, they go to the beach. Why are you going to the beach? Because they want their skin to be really dark. Now, the people whose skin is naturally dark, they got a problem with those people.

BEHAR: It`s too confusing for white people, isn`t it?

BEHAR: Let`s look at your new viral video campaign called "Give A Damn". Watch this.

LAUPER: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m straight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m gay.

ELTON JOHN, SINGER: and I give a damn about equality.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Want to know why?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because you can be fired in over half the states in this country for being gay or transgender.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: it`s time for things to change.

JOHN: We all have to get involved.

LAUPER: We all have to give a damn.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We give a damn.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: It`s important to have straight allies, isn`t it, in the gay movement?

LAUPER: That`s what this is about. I did the whole "Apprentice" thing to go on national TV and say, there is a large population in our country that does not have civil rights, and that`s the gay community.

BEHAR: Right.

LAUPER: And I couldn`t believe -- I did it. I did it live, too. Yes, I was like yes. And it afforded me to be able to kick off the "Give a Damn" campaign, which is all about everybody telling their stories and getting your straight allies in there. Because in every civil rights movement, when I was growing up, I saw white people and black people marching, saying this is not right.

BEHAR: Right.

LAUPER: And it isn`t right. And also, here`s the other thing, even if you are thinking selfishly, right? Fine. You know, we`re a free country, except for you guys over there.

Well, that`s all well and good, until you`re standing over there and it`s for some ridiculous reason that everybody decides to pick on you.

BEHAR: That`s right.

LAUPER: You`re either a free country or you`re not a free country. If somebody isn`t free in your country that means your freedom is up for grabs.

BEHAR: That`s true. That`s true.

You know I want to ask you about Elton John. You know he recently performed for Rush Limbaugh for a million bucks. How much would they have to pay you to do that?

LAUPER: Well, he`s all about mending bridges.

BEHAR: Who, Elton?

LAUPER: Yes. He`s about, if I perform for this man who maybe is not really close to someone and he feels a kinship with Elton John? This is Rush Limbaugh feeling --

BEHAR: Yes.

LAUPER: A kinship with a gay man, right? Well, instead of slamming the door closed, he went to go widen the gap.

BEHAR: Right, so would you do it?

LAUPER: Me? I don`t know. I don`t know. I have a big mouth. And I don`t -- I`m not always like I`m not always the calm, gracious person. I always have to go back and rethink, you know.

Like Kung Fu Panda and master Shifu at the same time going on right here. Always going, focus, focus, and the other guy going, oh, my god! You know? I don`t know. I know my friends do stuff. Shaggy goes to the Mideast, takes the money and puts it into the Caribbean Children`s Fund.

BEHAR: Yes, of course. I would assume you`d put it in your fund.

LAUPER: Yes.

BEHAR: I perform also, I`m a stand-up, you know? And I would do it if Glenn Beck married Rush Limbaugh.

LAUPER: Really? Glenn Beck.

BEHAR: I`d do it for 50 bucks if he did that.

LAUPER: Yes, I don`t think he`d marry him, though. Maybe he`s too tall.

BEHAR: He`s not his type. Now, you talked about "Celebrity Apprentice" before. Did you enjoy doing that? How did you -- did you like it?

LAUPER: Well, I got to hang out with Sharon. Sharon is such -- oh, she`s such a hoot. We laughed.

BEHAR: Who?

LAUPER: So hard. Sharon Osbourne.

BEHAR: Oh, Sharon Osbourne.

LAUPER: Oh my God she so funny. And the two of us, we -- we laughed quite a bit. And you know, I got to say gay rights --

BEHAR: Right.

LAUPER: -- on national television prime time. That`s pretty darn good.

BEHAR: But was it fun too?

LAUPER: Well --

BEHAR: Not really.

LAUPER: -- there were moments that were fun.

BEHAR: Yes.

LAUPER: And then --

BEHAR: When you were laughing with Sharon, but I mean, besides that --

LAUPER: It was --

BEHAR: -- the job that you had to do and all that stuff, was that fun?

LAUPER: Well, they`re 18-hour days, six days a week. And eventually --

BEHAR: Wow.

LAUPER: -- you all want to kill each other. And, you know, you can`t sit and eat because you have no time because then you got to go talk. And you`re always talking.

BEHAR: Yes, it`s tough.

LAUPER: And so I had -- I had a hard time. But would I do it again? Yes. Did it help me? Yes. I went down to Memphis. I did this in two and half weeks. And when -- every day if I hit adversity -- you know we hit adversity anyway, because you`re in entertainment. You always have that.

BEHAR: Yes.

LAUPER: But if you -- in the "Apprentice" it was like every day is another thing of adversity. Ok, you regroup.

BEHAR: Yes.

LAUPER: So that`s -- it helped me. It helped me to regroup.

BEHAR: I`m glad it helped you, because you might even be doing another reality show, which we`ll talk about next time you come because we`ve run out of time.

LAUPER: I know I signed with Mark Burnett.

BEHAR: That`s said.

LAUPER: They want a reality show on moi.

BEHAR: Oh, my God.

LAUPER: Oh, my God.

BEHAR: Well, thanks for joining me anyway Cyndi. I`m glad you came by. And her new album is "Memphis Blues."

Up next: from the Go-Gos, singer Belinda Carlisle.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Well, the Go-Gos` Belinda Carlisle went from valley girl to rock star to hell and back and she describes her journey in her new memoir "Lips Unsealed". With me is Belinda Carlisle. Welcome Belinda.

BELINDA CARLISLE, AUTHOR, "LIPS UNSEALED": Hi.

BEHAR: Now first of all, what are you -- what`s your response when you see yourself in those clips?

CARLISLE: God, I was so young. We were so cute. It seems like yesterday.

BEHAR: It seems like yesterday. Yes, I know. I know that feeling.

Now you grew up in southern California, and your -- I was reading your -- the book. So the biological father leaves at five.

CARLISLE: Right.

BEHAR: And in moves the stepfather.

So that -- how did that affect you as a child? Have you ever thought about that?

CARLISLE: Well I never really understood why my father left in the first place. Nothing was ever really explained to me so I was just sort of sitting and waiting for him to come home.

And --

BEHAR: Well it sounds like your mother was having an affair with this Walt.

CARLISLE: Well, she might -- I don`t know what was going on but probably they had a friendship. She was lonely. My father was never there and possibly, quite possibly.

BEHAR: Yes, why was he never there? Was he working somewhere?

CARLISLE: He was a traveling salesman. He sold vacuum cleaners.

BEHAR: Oh the old traveling salesman story.

But, now -- your mother remarried? She married this guy, Walt.

CARLISLE: Yes, she married the man -- our neighbor, the man across the street. And, yes, I mean, nothing was ever really explained. He`s amazing now. I mean, he`s -- he`s -- he`s sober. But it was pretty rough going for my childhood. It was -- he was an alcoholic. He was abusive and it was -- it was my mother was trying to raise five kids. Turned into seven at some point but it was five.

BEAHR: It turned into seven.

CARLISLE: Well I`m the oldest of seven and after I left she had two more. So, yes, it was a pretty tumultuous childhood.

BEHAR: So he was abusive when he was drunk?

CARLISLE: Yes when was drinking yes.

BEHAR: What type of abuse? Beatings?

CARLISLE: Well it was, lots of -- the belt --

BEHAR: The belt.

CARLISLE: Yes and a lot of emotional abuse too. But -- like I said, I mean, it`s -- it`s another case of, you know, alcoholics obscuring the amazing person underneath.

I mean, now I can`t -- you wouldn`t even imagine the man being able to do anything like that.

BEHAR: Now he`s sober?

CARLISLE: Yes and he`s great, yes.

BEHAR: And he`s fun.

CARLISLE: And he`s -- remorseful of course.

BEHAR: He`s feels bad about what he did to you, kids.

CARLISLE: Of course, of course, yes.

BEHAR: A lot of -- beatings with a belt?

CARLISLE: Yes, well, it was kind of done back then.

BEHAR: It was done back then?

CARLISLE: It was done back then. I think -- I know. It was. There wasn`t a whole lot of taboo I think on hitting and spanking your kids, so but with a belt that`s pretty hard core.

BEHAR: And your mother, she did not get involved at all in the --

CARLISLE: Well I think she was afraid to rock the boat because she was trying to raise kids and my father was the breadwinner and you know she was sort of torn between trying to survive -- survive. And you know I felt bad for her. She did the best she could.

BEHAR: I think I read in the book -- correct me if I`m wrong -- that she heard somebody on television say it was ok to hit kids.

CARLISLE: Yes it was, yes.

BEHAR: See this is why I don`t like to put -- I hate it when people on television say that it`s ok to spank or hit children because people like your mother feel, well, it`s ok.

CARLISLE: It`s ok.

BEHAR: And let them --

CARLISLE: It`s done for a purpose, yes.

BEHAR: Yes and that`s why I object to that. So I wanted to just put that out there.

CARLISLE: Yes, yes.

BEHAR: Now -- so now -- then you developed a cocaine addiction --

CARLISLE: Right.

BEHAR: -- and you had one for 30 years.

CARLISLE: For 30 years.

BEHAR: Where did you get the money to all that coke?

CARLISLE: Well, I mean, I -- the first time I did -- did cocaine, I couldn`t afford it but I thought one day when I can -- when I do have money I`m going to buy lots of it because I like this.

BEHAR: You really liked it, you really liked it?

CARLISLE: Yes. And -- but you know, it`s -- it`s that the fun wore off pretty quickly. I was pretty much an instant addict when I look back. I spent all my money on it. And -- and you know, for years I was able to afford -- afford it, afford a good habit. And I spent pretty much every dime on --

BEHAR: On drugs.

CARLISLE: -- on coke and the behavior that went along with it, which was pretty crazy; racehorses and you know spur of the moment first class tickets to Japan, things like that.

Which you know --

BEHAR: Yes.

CARLISLE: -- pretty wasteful.

BEHAR: All that acting out.

CARLISLE: Yes.

BEHAR: Which really probably had some connection to your childhood. I mean --

CARLISLE: Oh, definitely.

BEHAR: Yes.

CARLISLE: It`s -- it`s -- you know, it`s -- I think when I -- when I dug deep after I became sober and -- and sort of -- to figure out and ask questions why I was like that, I didn`t think I -- all those father issues and all those abuse issues really affected me. I thought been there, done that, it`s ok, I forgive --

BEHAR: Yes.

CARLISLE: -- but it really does affect a kid and as an adult.

BEHAR: Yes it certainly does.

CARLISLE: Yes.

BEHAR: In fact there was something in the book about you were being interviewed on the red carpet by Maurice Gibb, one of the Bee Gees --

CARLISLE: Right.

BEHAR: -- and he told you there`s stuff on your nose.

CARLISLE: Yes. Well, I had a heavy -- a heavy habit for 30 years. There`s five years that I stopped, but you know, what can I say?

BEHAR: Ok sit right there.

We`re going to come back with more on Belinda Carlisle`s story after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: I`m back with the talented Belinda Carlisle. And we`re talking about her new memoir, "Lips Unsealed".

Let`s talk about your husband a little bit because he fascinated me. First of all he is the son of James Mason, James Mason.

CARLISLE: Right.

BEHAR: The actor. His name is Morgan Mason.

CARLISLE: Right.

BEHAR: You`ve been married to him how long?

CARLISLE: We`ve been married for 24 years. We`ve been together 26 1/2.

BEHAR: Right and you have children with him?

CARLISLE: I have an 18-year-old son.

BEHAR: Right. And during the marriage, I was reading you basically would sneak the coke even during the marriage and he never even caught on.

CARLISLE: Well because we live in South of France and I purposely never had a connection there, so I could go off and travel. In the nature of my work, I travel a lot, I would have all my connections in other cities. I never -- I was afraid he would find out my secret when I was home. I wasn`t that good at hiding it. He busted me quite a few times.

BEHAR: He busted you a few times.

CARLISLE: And I`d always promised that I would stop like an addict does and I`ll never do it again. And I meant every promise I made, I just couldn`t keep them.

BEHAR: You also have issues with weight also.

CARLISLE: Right.

BEHAR: So what`s that addiction about?

CARLISLE: Well I mean I was always normal, I wouldn`t even say chubby. And I -- I mean I had you know, I always had baby fat. When I -- I never had a problem with my weight. When the Go-Gos became famous, the media had a problem with my weight.

So everything was always, my name was mentioned with -- weight was synonymous with my name. She`s cute chubby, she`s pretty plump, svelte, voluptuous, buxom; I mean it was just --

BEHAR: And nobody asked the other girls.

CARLISLE: No.

BEHAR: Just you.

CARLISLE: And that does things to your head after a while. You know and that was one of the reasons why I liked drugs is because I didn`t eat when I was doing cocaine.

BEHAR: Uh huh, do you think you have an addictive personality of any kind?

CARLISLE: I think I have a tendency to be a little bit OCD --

BEHAR: Yes.

CARLISLE: But it`s something I have to watch. I think, yes, when I didn`t take care of it the first time around, I stopped doing drugs for about five years. I mean I had my version of the program. I sponsored myself. And I was allowed to do hallucinogen and pills, it was pot. I just couldn`t --

BEHAR: It`s good to be clean.

CARLISLE: My program. But I never took care of -- I never bothered to do the work. So that`s why it also went after food. It`s just like shopping or whatever.

BEAHR: Right, some people find religion.

CARLISLE: They do.

BEHAR: That never happened you to?

CARLISLE: No, not until the end, really, no.

BEHAR: There`s one more question before we go. The Go-Gos split up in 1985. Some of your girls blamed your husband for that, like the Yoko Ono of it? What is that about?

CARLISLE: Well there was a problem in Yoko Ono but you know I think there was a lot of change and dynamics when there was some of the girls in the band got sober and I had met Morgan at that time. So it was good to pin everything on him.

BEHAR: I see. Kind of like the Beatles a little bit.

CARLISLE: Kind of, I guess.

BEHAR: But does he screech like Yoko?

CARLISLE: I never know. No, he`s too busy on the golf course.

BEHAR: All right, Belinda thank you for joining me tonight. Her memoir is called "Lips Unsealed," and it`s out now.

All right. When we come back, Melissa Etheridge.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOY BEHAR: She has two Grammys, an Oscar, four kids and an ex-wife. She also has a new album out called "Fearless Love," which her teenage daughter actually named, I hear. Here to tell me all about it is the singer and wonderfully talented Melissa Etheridge. Yes, you do have an ex-wife.

MELISSA ETHERIDGE: Two ex-wives. One formal.

BEHAR: You weren`t married twice.

ETHERIDGE: No, I wasn`t married twice, but I feel like I was married twice.

BEHAR: Were you hit and left by the side of the road?

ETHERIDGE: No, no, no, no. I`m not going there with you. You can make me go there, but I`m not going to go there.

BEHAR: OK, I won`t. Before we talk about -- I want to talk about your marriage, though, because you broke up with Tammy Lynn Michaels.

So how are you doing since the breakup? How long is that? You were together a while? Married legally in California, right?

ETHERIDGE: Yes, we were married seven years ago and together nine years. And yes, it`s a good long marriage.

BEHAR: By today`s standards, it is. Our parents, no.

ETHERIDGE: No, I know. As any breakups are, it`s up and down and we have two children together. So that`s a lot of -- you really have to -- you have to work things out. You have to find that place that it works.

BEHAR: Well, I know I`m delving into personal business.

ETHERIDGE: Here you go, Joy. Hard hitting news here.

BEHAR: You said the breakup was mutual.

ETHERIDGE: I did.

BEHAR: Where were you on Oprah or something?

ETHERIDGE: Yes.

BEHAR: And then she wrote on her blog in this long meandering poem that it`s not mutual, please stop telling the press it was mutual, she said in her poem. So what about it? Was it mutual or not?

ETHERIDGE: No, I think everybody understands why we`re not together because we don`t see things the same. You know?

BEHAR: You thought it was mutual. She didn`t.

ETHERIDGE: Yes. Those things are so hard to really discuss and she absolutely has a blog that she can put her feelings and thoughts.

BEHAR: Yes.

ETHERIDGE: And I respect that.

BEHAR: And good for her.

ETHERIDGE: Yes and here I am talking to you.

BEHAR: The thing about this, I am talking to you about this on television. I think that makes it harder because you`re in the public eye and everybody wants to know everything. You`re such a forthcoming person so you`ll go there.

ETHERIDGE: That`s the thing. I have been. I`ve been forthcoming about my relationships. I always thought I was doing something good for the gay community and like gay teens -- I know when I was a gay teen, growing up and there was no couples, there was no gay people.

BEHAR: Well, they were there, you just didn`t know it.

ETHERIDGE: Yes, it was pretty dark. I always tried to say, hey, look, this is relationship then you make that so public. Then all of a sudden here`s the breakup. You have to be there for all of it.

BEHAR: It kind of goes with the territory. Tell me about the story of your daughter. What`s her name, the daughter who --

ETHERIDGE: Bailey. She`s my first born. She`s 13 now and of course knows everything, and knows everything about music. And it was the first time both of them my 13-year-old and 11-year-old were interested in what I was doing.

Interested in -- you know, you`re writing. Can I hear the songs? And they saw the whole process. Bailey said, what`s the name of the album? I said, I`m thinking of "Songs of Fear and Love." She said that`s way too long.

I said what about "Fearless"? Mom, Taylor Swift`s album is "Fearless." What should I call it? She said, what about "Fearless Love." I said, that`s great. I`ll feed her again for another year.

BEHAR: Is this the child who the sperm donor was David Crosby? That`s so interesting. I remember hearing about that. I thought that kid`s going to be musical because your natural child, right?

ETHERIDGE: No, it was actually Julie and David. I`m not blood related, but I certainly have influenced and they are my children.

BEHAR: Yes, well, nature and nurture are coming together here.

ETHERIDGE: Exactly. You have environment and the genes all happening about music and they go -- the school they go to is very musical. It``s very natural. So yes, they are musical.

BEHAR: Two kids.

ETHERIDGE: I have two kids. I have Bailey, Beckett, then the twins with Tammy, two 3-year-olds.

BEHAR: You have four children and you have custody now of all of them?

ETHERIDGE: I share custody.

BEHAR: You share custody.

ETHERIDGE: Yes.

BEHAR: So the David Crosby thing worked, the kids are musical.

ETHERIDGE: They`re musical and they`re beautiful. I know people used to tease about -- I know, I know, believe me.

BEHAR: He`s talented, but you know, looks wise --

ETHERIDGE: He and his wife Jan, just the gift, it was really amazing. And I`m telling you, some day you will see my children and you will go holy cow, they`re gorgeous.

BEHAR: I can see that David Crosby could have been -- he was handsome.

ETHERIDGE: You know.

BEHAR: I remember.

ETHERIDGE: The miles and miles.

BEHAR: Stephen Stills, he was gorgeous in his day. He`s a sexy guy. Now, you also were diagnosed with breast cancer six years ago. I read that you called cancer a wake-up call. A near-death experience does change you, right?

ETHERIDGE: It totally does and it should. I think I`m one of those people that really think that that`s what cancer is about. It`s a symptom. It`s your body goes out of balance from stress, from what we put into our body, the food, smoking. All those things, the poisons that we subject our physical bodies to and when cancer came and then they took it out, it was like, I get it. It set me on a much healthier path.

BEHAR: Some cancer is genetic, though.

ETHERIDGE: Yes.

BEHAR: The gene for breast cancer, et cetera?

ETHERIDGE: Yes. I agree. I also think that what we`re going to find next is that genes are not like, here`s the blueprint of your life and you have this and that, genes are actually affected by environment also.

BEHAR: Probably. Now your first album was over 20 years ago.

ETHERIDGE: My goodness.

BEHAR: Right?

ETHERIDGE: Yes.

BEHAR: So how has music changed since you first started, do you think? A lot, right?

ETHERIDGE: Music and the music business. They`re having a hard time right now sort of getting in with the iTunes and the digital music.

BEHAR: You can`t sell an album any more, right?

ETHERIDGE: It`s really -- I still make an album. I still make my music in that way. I think of it. There it is right there.

BEHAR: That`s your album.

ETHERIDGE: So I still make my albums and think of it as that`s an art form, that`s been an art form for decades. So I know that people will just buy singles. But there is still an art form to the album.

BEHAR: And you want the thing to hold. I like that a lot. You know, we`re talking about the gay thing before. And I wanted to ask you about, Elton John performed for Rush Limbaugh at his wedding. Do you know that? His fourth wedding.

ETHERIDGE: No, I did not know that.

BEHAR: Yes.

ETHERIDGE: Did Rush ask him?

BEHAR: Yes. He paid him a million dollars.

ETHERIDGE: Well, hello. Rush, call me. No.

BEHAR: Would you do it for a million bucks?

ETHERIDGE: I don`t know. Wow, I`d have to actually think about it, you know.

BEHAR: How about $2 million?

ETHERIDGE: Does she have a price?

BEHAR: You`d have to think about it less. No, that`s an interesting dynamic. He`s giving it to his charity, Elton John.

ETHERIDGE: There you go.

BEHAR: He`s not going to keep the money. Some people say, well, he can cough up a million right out of his own bank account, what did he have to go there for?

ETHERIDGE: Might feel good to take it from there and give to here. Sort of Robin Hood like.

BEHAR: I thought it was an interesting thing that he did. That must have been some wedding. It was his fourth. Women will go for anything.

ETHERIDGE: I know.

BEHAR: That`s true. Not gay women. Straight women.

ETHERIDGE: All of them, I`m telling you.

BEHAR: Women will go for anything. The gay guys I know, they`re very picky. You know, this and this and this. They have a list. Women, yes, he`s all right. He`s wearing pants? I`ll take it. The toupee has to go. You`re going out on tour. Where are you going to go?

ETHERIDGE: I leave tomorrow for Europe. I do three shows and come back to America. Start on the east coast playing New York City July 14th.

BEHAR: Where?

ETHERIDGE: The United Palace Theater, uptown. I`ve never played there.

BEHAR: It`s a new place, newish.

ETHERIDGE: Then moving all the way across to the west coast, I end up in California in September.

BEHAR: Where in Europe are you going?

ETHERIDGE: I`m doing London, Amsterdam and Berlin.

BEHAR: Very nice, the axis powers, I love it.

ETHERIDGE: Yes.

BEHAR: Anyway, thank you so much for doing this.

ETHERIDGE: Always a pleasure.

BEHAR: You know I love you. She`s great. You were fabulous in that concert I saw you in Palm Springs.

ETHERIDGE: Come see me.

BEHAR: You are just great. You should really catch Melissa live. But if you can`t, her new album "Fearless Love" is out now. OK, when we return (Pat Benatar) joins me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: For more than 30 years Pat Benatar has been one of the most iconic women in Rock `n` Roll, paving the way for many who followed her. In her memoir "Between a Heart and a Rock Place," I love that title, she talks about breaking into the Rock `n` Roll Boys Club and everything both good and bad that came with it.

So welcome to the show, Pat Benatar. It`s so great to have you here.

PAT BENATAR: I`m happy to be here.

BEHAR: We`re all big fans of yours.

BENATAR: Thanks.

BEHAR: I was reading that you were a working class girl from Long Island.

BENATAR: Yes.

BEHAR: I`m a working class girl from Brooklyn.

BENATAR: That`s right.

BEHAR: And you were classically trained as a singer.

BENATAR: Yes. Eight years.

BEHAR: And you had a shot to audition at Julliard and you didn`t take it.

BENATAR: No.

BEHAR: Talk about hit me with your best shot.

BENATAR: You know, I choked at the end. I choked. My boyfriend at the time who I went on to marry when I was very young, got drafted. And I panicked, and I thought he was going to go to Vietnam and die. My choir teacher practically threw herself off the building, the high school roof. And yes, because we`d been planning it for so long.

BEHAR: So you get married instead?

BENATAR: I did.

BEHAR: Why couldn`t you audition and be married?

BENATAR: Because he was leaving. He was going away, and I wanted to go. I couldn`t stay in New York. He went -- I don`t know, Massachusetts.

BEHAR: So you followed your husband, as we all did in those days. Idiots that we were.

BENATAR: Yes.

BEHAR: You know --

BENATAR: I don`t know what I was thinking.

BEHAR: You know, we all did that. I was just talking about this today. How girls today they`re like, really?

BENATAR: My daughters, I have a 25-year-old, 16-year-old. The oldest one is, I`m so never getting married.

BEHAR: Well, it looks like a death sentence. His name was Dennis Benatar and how long did you -- then you got divorced?

BENATAR: Yes.

BEHAR: How long did you last?

BENATAR: We were married for eight years, but we split up literally every year. I`d tell the story in the book that when I met Spyder, when I finally met Spyder, that`s it. We`re done. Then I absolutely did it.

BEHAR: So Spyder was an overlap.

BENATAR: He was an overlap. But we were separated one more time, that kind of thing.

BEHAR: But you kept Benatar`s name because your name is --

BENATAR: Andrzejewski.

BENATAR: Yes. I had already signed my record deal as Pat Benatar.

BEHAR: Pat Benatar`s a great name. I love it. He was valuable in that way?

BENATAR: Yes. And it was penance, penance. He gets to hear it every day.

BEHAR: Poor guy.

BENATAR: I know.

BEHAR: The other thing I was reading about you is that you worked as a bank teller at one point.

BENATAR: I did. Lots of points, I did. I had to make money. Even when I was at catch a rising star, I still worked at the chase Manhattan Bank.

BEHAR: Really? And that you were inspired when you were a bank teller by Liza Minnelli. Did she come into the bank or something?

BENATAR: No, I was living in Richmond because we were there in Richmond, Virginia. I wasn`t singing. It had been like a year and a half, no singing. I studied for eight years, then all of a sudden no singing. I had to get a job, I had to do something.

I went to Virginia Commonwealth University part time then I got a job in the bank. I didn`t know how to do anything. I was a student. So they had this thing where they were training tellers and they were training them on a new system.

I tell the story in the book about how I went in there and all these blue-haired ladies. They were darling, sweet little southern ladies. I don`t know why I have to learn this new one. It`s perfectly good the way it is. I was from New York and they let me do it because I was 20 years old and I didn`t know how to do anything. I became a bank teller. My friends who worked in the bank wanted to go see a Liza Minnelli concert and I went with them.

BEHAR: That did it.

BENATAR: I was just in the Richmond Coliseum and I was looking around thinking I can do this. I can do this, I know it. I quit my job and I started looking for gigs in Virginia.

BEHAR: But how did you end up at Catch a Rising Star, which was a comedy club in New York at the time, for those of you who don`t remember.

BENATAR: Because I had read in the "Richmond Times Dispatch," they did an article about this new genre of clubs, these open mike nights and you can go up there. I have to go back to New York. I was actually doing really well in Virginia. I was in a band called Coxswain`s Army. They were regionally getting pretty big.

We had done a PBS special. I`m thinking this is great, but I got to get out of here. I got to go back to New York. I was separated again and I just quit the band, and everyone was flipping out. I went to catch because I read about it in the paper.

BEHAR: Right and you just --

BENATAR: I went online. I stood in line like everybody else. I was number 29.

BEHAR: There were singers when I was there also.

BENATAR: Yes, but we were filler. You know that. We were there to fill in between and to laugh. And laugh at the jokes and fill in.

BEHAR: I know, but the singers were good down there. They had a band at that time. It was a great time in New York.

BENATAR: Please so much fun. One of the best times of my life.

BEHAR: I miss it a lot. Believe me. It`s not the same now, it just isn`t. You signed with a record company in 1979.

BENATAR: Right.

BEHAR: You met your husband.

BENATAR: I did.

BEHAR: Neil "Spyder" Giraldo and that was the first meeting between the two of you. Right?

BENATAR: He came in -- Mike Chapman who was going to produce part of the record, had been working on Rick Derringer`s record and Spyder --

BEHAR: "Rock `n` Roll Hoochie Koo."

BENATAR: Yes, and Spyder was in the band. Spyder was 22. He was a baby. I told Mike about this thing that I had. I wanted to be like Robert Plant and Jimmy Page and Keith and Mick. He goes, I got this kid. He`s 22 years old. I think he`s exactly what you`re looking for. I`m going to send him down. So he sent him down. He walked in the door. I was with Newman.

BEHAR: Rick Newman from Catch a Rising Star.

BENATAR: That`s right because he was my manager then. BEHAR: Who happens to be sitting here.

BENATAR: He`s sitting here right now.

BEHAR: In the room.

BENATAR: Along with Spyder and Spyder walked in. And I was trying to be like over cool and he walked in and I pretty much fell on the ground and Newman is like, what is wrong with you? I was like -- I saw the father of my children. I knew the moment I saw him. It was just like getting hit with a two by four.

BEHAR: Wow. He must have been something.

BENATAR: Honey. He still is.

BEHAR: But he was dating -- maybe we`ll have to put him on camera soon. So the women can take a look at him. But he was dating Linda Blair when you first met. When he told you that he thought Blair was cheating on him. Did your head spin?

BENATAR: No, but I wanted to spin hers. I was like give him to me. I love him. You know? But it took a little bit of time, but then it all worked out for the best, 31 years and two children later, here we are.

BEHAR: You`ve been together a lot. You work together, you tour together. You are making music together, you sleep together. Don`t you ever get sick of him?

BENATAR: No. He does drive me crazy, but I never get sick of him.

BEHAR: You never get sick of him. OK, Pat, stay right there. We`ll be back in a minute with more from the lovely, talented Pat Benatar.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: That was 1981 when a young female rocker named Pat Benatar made history becoming the first woman to ever appear on MTV. That`s right and she`s back here with me. That video we just showed was the second video to air on the first day of MTV.

Did you have any idea that day how big MTV was going to be?

BENATAR: No, we were all sitting there. We were in Oklahoma waiting to do a festival called Rock-lahoma. We were just sitting there in the hotel room. Some crap and the joke was that the hotel y dumpy hotel. We were in was one of the five places that actually signed up for MTV that day.

BEHAR: Really?

BENATAR: So it came on. Newman called me and he said, Spyder and I were sitting there and he said, it`s going to be on. They`re going to air it for the first time today.

BEHAR: That`s exciting.

BENATAR: Just jaws dropped because they only had like eight, and they played them 24 hours a day. There was no filler in between and in a week, our lives -- everyone`s life changed. It just changed.

BEHAR: A lot of people say that MTV changed the music industry.

BENATAR: It did, absolutely.

BEHAR: Because it became such a visual medium all of a sudden. People like Ella Fitzgerald would never be a star with MTV, people from that period, because they were just not hot enough. You were hot enough and so I think it helped you. But you had talent and you looked great.

BENATAR: Thanks.

BEHAR: But nowadays, you know, like Lady Gaga and even Madonna, who really changed a lot of the way we see music, those women seem to be upping the ante constantly. I mean, Gaga is constantly in some kind of wacky outfit. Their videos are considered blasphemous by some groups.

BENATAR: Very provocative. Very.

BEHAR: Do you think you could function in this particular atmosphere now if you were just starting?

BENATAR: No, but, you know that was always there. Maybe it wasn`t quite as extreme, but there were always extreme people. Think about Rick James and all the crazy stuff he did. I would have never been able to do that and I wouldn`t be able to do it today either. It`s too far for me. I like to straddle in the middle.

BEHAR: You actually read in your book the head of your record company at Chrysalis. This guy said to you, I hope you don`t think that people are actually coming to your concerts to hear you sing. What was that about? Sexism?

BENATAR: We were arguing -- yes. Sexism was rampant the whole time. But we were arguing because I had wanted to lighten up my image a little bit, let go of it. And they were holding on really tightly because they had a marketing tool that was foolproof. It was working beautifully. They couldn`t understand why on earth I would want to change it.

I wanted to back up a little. It was getting boring. I invented it but it was boring. We were arguing over the new record cover. He told me if they didn`t reshoot it, they would shelf the record. That`s when he said that, you don`t actually think they`re coming to hear you sing. It was part of a long laundry list of the things that happened during that era. You know, how people treated women still.

BEHAR: I`m so thrilled that you`re still working and that you`re still great, you still love to sing and you`ll be touring.

BENATAR: Yes.

BEHAR: I`m so happy to have you on the show. Good luck with your book.

BENATAR: Congratulations to you, sister.

BEHAR: Thank you. OK, the book is called "Between a Heart and a Rock Place." and it`s out today. Good night, everybody.

END