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Joy Behar Page
Lilo In the Big House, Mel`s Meltdown; Lebron Sparks War Of Words; Life according to Louis
Aired July 12, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Tonight, Mel Gibson drops the "n" word, calls his ex-girlfriend a whore and gets dumped by his talent agency. What`s next for Mel? How about a reality show called celebrity road kill?
Not only is Lindsay Lohan headed to jail but she showed up in court with "F-U" painted on her finger. I knew Mel Gibson`s career was in trouble, but I didn`t realize he was also doing manicures.
And in a new FX show which he wrote, produced, directed and starred in 40-something Louis C.K. plays 4o-something Louis C.K. I wonder who he had to sleep with to get the part?
That and more right now.
RadarOnline has released a brand new tape. They say it`s Mel Gibson`s voice on that tape. CNN confirms the female voice is his ex- girlfriend, Oksana Grigorieva. She also says the other voice is Gibson`s. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You almost killed us. Did you forget?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last three years have been a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gravy train for you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You were hitting a woman with a child in her hands. You. What kind of man is that, hitting a woman when she`s holding a child in her hands? Breaking her teeth twice in her face. What kind of man is that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, you`re all angry now. You know what, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deserved it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what? You are going to answer, one day, boy, you`re going to answer. There.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What, what? Are you threatening me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing, nothing. I`m not the one to threaten.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m threatening -- i`ll put you in a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) rose garden you (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BEHAR: With me now are Howard Bragman, celebrity publicist a author of "Where`s My 15 Minutes"; Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor and law professor at New England Law; and Shaun Robinson, weekend co-host and correspondent for Access: Hollywood.
Howard, Mel has been ranting for decades and saying all sorts of inflammatory things. But this -- you only heard a little bit of it. I listened to the eight minutes today. It`s unbelievably sick. I mean isn`t this a new level of ranting and mental illness?
HOWARD BRAGMAN, CELEBRITY PUBLICIST: It is unbelievable. I got an e-mail this morning with a link to it. A couple of us listened in the office. And I was uncomfortable listening to it in front of my employees.
He couldn`t even catch his breath; he was hyperventilating so hard, Joy. It was -- she was right. She said, "You need medication." She was right. He needs a chill pill.
BEHAR: Well, you know, Wendy, we can`t confirm -- no one seems to be able to 100 percent confirm that it`s he on the tape. But he`s accused her of leaking them in the tape. So doesn`t that sound like it`s him?
WENDY MURPHY, PROFESSOR, NEW ENGLAND LAND: Yes. Yes. That`s a good way to prove it. You`re a good lawyer.
You know, Joy, I don`t think there`s much doubt that it`s him, but she could get in trouble for leaking the tape, I have to say.
BEHAR: Oh, really?
MURPHY: I`m very glad that it`s out there. We need to know the truth about these kinds of behind closed doors relationships. And you know, as ugly as it is, I hope everybody listens to the tape. It`s sad we can`t play the whole tape with the "c" word, the "b" word. It`s grotesque. I wish we could play it to get the whole flavor of it.
But the reason she can get in trouble is because there was pending litigation about custody of their child. And no judge, even if we feel bad for her and the judge I`m sure feels bad for her, if her teeth were knocked out, we`re all going to feel real bad for her if that`s true. But no judge wants to be manipulated into a certain result by the leak of information meant to bring pressure to bear and in a sense, gain leverage. In a way, that`s a bit of a cheap shot.
BEHAR: Well, is that why you think that she could get in trouble for leaking the tapes?
MURPHY: Yes. There`s no question that somebody leaked it. And she has thus far said it wasn`t her, and I believe her. They may never tie it to her, in which case she won`t get in any trouble at all. I`m just saying, courts don`t like when the media brings pressure to bear on these kinds of cases. Although remember, O.J. and Scott Peterson got away with it.
BEHAR: He`s a big movie star. He`s in the media. There`s not much that you can do about that fact. And if he`s ranting like that against her, if I was in her position, I certainly would leak it. That`s exactly what I would do.
MURPHY: And I`d try to defend you.
BEHAR: Yes.
MURPHY: But you might get in trouble. Courts don`t like it. It`s unseemly. I know that sounds crazy because the guy really needs to go to jail. He doesn`t need a chill pill. He doesn`t medication. He needs behind bars.
BEHAR: Let`s listen to another part of the audio. Let`s listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t walk around -- I don`t -- I don`t walk around in tight cloths. I stay home most of the time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You go out in public and (EXPLETIVE DELETED) embarrassment to me. You look like a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on heat and if you get raped by a pack of (EXPLETIVE DELETED) it will be your fault. All right? Because you provoked it; you are provocatively dressed all the time about your fake boobs you feel you have to show off.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BEHAR: Didn`t he marry her because -- for her fake boobs? Or whatever? I mean, he is attracted to the girl for her body and then he puts her down for it. But these clips are just part of the tape.
Shaun, are there more thins coming out that we don`t even know about yet?
SHAUN ROBINSON, ACCESS HOLLYWOOD: Well, you know what`s interesting. There`s all this question about who leaked the tapes and if it`s really Mel. We`re certainly all reporting it as though it is Mel Gibson. And I doubt very seriously if anyone other than Oksana leaked these tapes. Well, you know, that aside --
BEHAR: You believe Oksana leaked them?
ROBINSON: Absolutely. If I were her, I would have leaked them, too.
BEHAR: That`s what I just said.
ROBINSON: Right. But here`s the deal. There was a reason why she recorded this conversation.
BEHAR: Right.
ROBINSON: And I believe that reason was because he`s constantly like this all the time. She knew that she needed to get these rants on tape, get some type of evidence that this was somebody who was abusive. This woman is in an abusive relationship like so many thousands and thousands of other women.
Mel Gibson obviously, if this is proven to be him, is an abuser. And that`s something that we don`t want to look at because he`s this huge, huge movie star. We wouldn`t tolerate this from somebody who wasn`t famous. I just really believe that.
BEHAR: He also said, reportedly, you need a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) bat in the side of the head, all right? How about that?
Now, Wendy, couldn`t criminal charges be filed against him for that statement, if it proved that this is his voice?
MURPHY: Possibly. I mean that`s a threat. Threats need to be imminent usually. But look, we don`t need to prosecute the guy for his threats. We can prosecute him for knocking her teeth out.
BEHAR: That`s right.
MURPHY: That`s actually a very serious felony in California. And if I were the prosecutor, I would also charge him with a hate crime. This guy is disgusting. He basically threatens to whack her upside the head with a bat and do all sorts of gross things to her on the tape because she won`t give him oral sex. He`s calling her the "c" word and the "b" word.
When you beat the hell out of a woman because she`s not being your sex slave, and then you knock her teeth out, that`s a hate crime.
BEHAR: I mean he seems to be obsessed with the oral sex thing. If you listen to it, it`s really a way of being demeaning to her. That`s what it`s about.
MURPHY: You bet.
BEHAR: It is not about sex or pleasure, it`s like rape is not about sex; it`s the same idea
Howard, not that I care, but if you were his publicist, how would you handle this? Besides asking for a huge raise?
BRAGMAN: Well, you know, I wouldn`t be his publicist, but he has a good publicist and somebody who is loyal for a long time. He`s in an awful situation. I feel bad for his publicist.
But I tell you, you got to operate in the court of law and you have to operate in the court of public opinion. As Wendy will tell you court of law is trumping court of public opinion. He`s really painted into a corner. If he responds to the fact that this tape is real, then everything on there gets real. So he`s going to try and fight that the tape shouldn`t have been made, it`s illegal and get it suppressed in the court.
What his PR people are doing now is circling the wagons, not commenting, which is the smartest thing they can do.
BEHAR: But he`s being investigated for three offenses: domestic violence because he punched her tooth out; child endangerment because she was holding the child while he was doing all this; and assault with a deadly weapon because he threatened her with a handgun. So I think he could go to jail. Is he going to go to jail? Wendy?
MURPHY: Oh, you`re asking me? Yes. If I`m the judge, yes. I think he should also be investigated for mayhem. Mayhem is what applies when you break somebody`s teeth or, you know, cut their lip or rip off their ear. He should be charged with Mayhem. That`s an eight-year felony in California.
You know, this is not Chris Brown, which was also grotesque but remember Chris got no time at all when he beat up Rihanna. This is a guy who knocked out teeth allegedly.
BEHAR: Right.
MURPHY: If that doesn`t put a guy behind bars, I don`t know what will.
ROBINSON: If I can jump in here, Joy, for just a minute, we`ve also learned that a restraining order is now in effect against Mel Gibson. I don`t know the details of that restraining order, but he obviously cannot come near Oksana or make any threats against her.
I think that is really important because this woman was obviously in this abusive relationship. Who knows? Maybe they were on the Red Carpet and these things were happening behind the scenes. Because we never know; the faces that these people put on in front of the camera is often very, very different from what`s actually happening behind the scenes.
BEHAR: Yes.
ROBINSON: And so I think that that is really important that there is no contact between him, her and especially that child.
BEHAR: Should she be afraid of him?
ROBINSON: I would be afraid of him. Any guy who is saying I`m going to come over there with a bat, i`ll put you in a rose garden? Please. You know --
BEHAR: Sometimes these restraining orders are not worth the paper they`re written on.
MURPHY: That`s right. Restrainers don`t protect women. But you know, she`s safe right now because we`re all watching her very carefully. She`s probably safer now than ever before.
The other thing is he may lose custody of that child. I guarantee you he won`t get custody or even joint custody for a long time.
You know why? If you beat the baby`s mother, the law in California presumes you are an unfit father. You cannot have even joint custody. If he thinks he loves that baby, what he did to that baby`s mother is why he may well not raise that child.
BEHAR: I see, well the guy -- you know, Howard, it`s interesting the guy really hates everybody, it seems.
BRAGMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, he took off on the Jews. This is the blacks. Homosexuals he was after for a while. Obviously, a huge misogynist. You know, I mean --
BRAGMAN: Oh this --
BEHAR: -- do you think he`s mentally ill or is he a racist anti- Semitic sexist pig? And who`s left to hate?
BRAGMAN: Well, I was wondering who is left to support him --
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
BRAGMAN: -- because really his homophobia started in the early 90s. And he didn`t retract those remarks. He made some to a newspaper some very --
BEHAR: No, he said he would not apologize. I have that, too, yes.
BRAGMAN: Right. And he never apologized for those. And -- and he`s continued to spew hate and pick on every group that`s out there. And I`m thinking, well, who`s left? There`s a few angry white men that might support him, but beyond that nobody.
But you know there`s something I want to say --
BEHAR: Well, the -- William Morris -- William Morris, agency, Ari Emanuel has dumped him now. So although, I don`t really know if he needs an agent, he finances his own movies. And he has an audience of people out there.
And what about his image as a Christian? What happened to that?
BRAGMAN: Well I don`t think --
BEHAR: When the Christians hear his language, are they still going to support him?
BRAGMAN: No, there is no way, well, plus he left his wife during a marriage for another woman, had a child out of wedlock, no I`m not thinking the Christians are going to rally behind Mel. He doesn`t need an agent, but he needs some dignity. We all want that.
BEHAR: Yes.
MURPHY: And some jail time.
BRAGMAN: And maybe some jail time.
BEHAR: And some jail time that`s right. Thank you, guys, very much.
ROBINSON: Thank you.
BEHAR: Up next, the hilarious Louis C.K. joins me.
And a little later we`ll have more on Mel Gibson and a look at some of the greatest, greatest angriest hits of his.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that ok?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that`s ok.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that`s all right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jesus why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is serious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s wrong with you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is serious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no way it is supposed to go in and out like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it can do. I`m a doctor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it tells me that everything is fine up there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stand-up comedian Louis C.K. is no stranger to controversy and now he`ll be no stranger to TV audiences. Again, he was on TV with something else, but the star of the new comedy "Louie" joins me. Louis C.K.
LOUIS, C.K., "LOUIE": Hi.
BEHAR: All right, that is hilarious. Ricky Gervais` character, well -- he got all the laughs in that.
C.K.: No, I was so happy to let him steal my show.
BEHAR: Oh that`s right.
C.K.: Yes.
BEHAR: Before we do that --
C.K.: Yes.
BEHAR: Did you watch the last segment on Mel Gibson?
C.K.: I kind of, yes. I`m a little confused by all that stuff. I don`t know.
BEHAR: Why, what do you mean? What are you confused about?
C.K.: I mean, it`s just so much -- I get the collision of him and Lindsay and all these people.
BEHAR: Oh yes I know.
C.K.: I don`t know what going on -- Did Lindsay hit a woman? I don`t understand how.
BEHAR: No, no Lindsay has nothing to do with Mel Gibson whatsoever.
C.K.: No, all right.
BEHAR: So all right, forget about it. Let`s talk about your show.
C.K.: I want to apologize because I had -- I actually got a vasectomy three hours ago. I`m not kidding. And so I`m a little valiumed out and I`m a little swollen.
BEHAR: Seriously?
C.K.: Yes. I`m not kidding -- it`s kind of a scheduling conflict.
BEHAR: Should you -- I`ll say.
C.K.: Yes.
BEHAR: Shouldn`t you be resting, at least resting part of you?
C.K.: Yes, sure. Yes. It`s not fun to be -- I`d like to be flat right now.
BEHAR: Does it hurt?
C.K.: Yes, a lot.
BEHAR: Does it hurt right now?
C.K.: Yes.
BEHAR: Why did you do it? You`re not even married any more.
C.K.: There was a sale and I couldn`t resist it. It hurts to laugh.
BEHAR: I cannot believe you`re here post vasectomy.
C.K.: Yes, I had to say it out loud. I wasn`t going to but just - - you looked at me and I had to say it.
BEHAR: I know -- it`s something --
C.K.: You bring out the truth in people.
BEHAR: -- something in my --
C.K.: Yes.
BEHAR: So -- but you`re not even married any more.
C.K.: No, I`m not. No.
BEHAR: So what do you need a vasectomy for now?
C.K.: Well, I don`t want any more kids.
BEHAR: Yes.
C.K.: And you know, I don`t know. It`s just for me. I just did it for me.
BEHAR: Sometimes you have to do things just for you.
C.K.: I don`t like my sperm. I don`t like it. I`m tired of it. So --
BEHAR: Now, this show "Louie" --
C.K.: Yes.
BEHAR: -- is very autobiographical.
C.K.: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, you`re playing yourself; you`re playing a stand-up comic. So -- an aging divorced stand-up comedian with two daughters.
C.K.: Yes, we`re all aging, but yes. Yes.
BEHAR: Right.
So -- and you have an ugly penis in this -- I`m just bringing it back to that, because in the first episode I watched.
C.K.: Yes.
BEHAR: Gervais accuses you of having a very ugly penis.
C.K.: A very ugly penis.
BEHAR: And yet you come here with the story of the vasectomy.
C.K.: Yes, that`s right.
BEHAR: So is it an ugly penis? Is that autobiographical also?
C.K.: Well, it`s not -- I don`t know. It`s not ugly per se.
BEHAR: Yes.
C.K.: No, I -- I think I have a pretty good penis. It`s -- it`s - - I mean, different people have different ways of quantifying penises. It`s -- it`s big but not in a good way. It`s not big like a --
BEHAR: Oh is that --
C.K.: -- horny -- it`s like an old man`s nose.
BEHAR: I see, ok.
C.K.: It`s like a -- it`s like a --
BEHAR: Well, that`s not very, you know, I`m turned on right now.
C.K.: -- good. It`s like a tube sock with a ball in it.
BEHAR: I can`t -- I can`t control how lustful I feel right now over that image.
C.K.: Oh sure.
BEHAR: Only thing I`m picturing is Abe Vigoda right now.
C.K.: Yes, that`s pretty good, if we --
BEHAR: I don`t know why?
C.K.: Yes. That`s probably close to what is going on down there.
BEHAR: Now, I`ve seen your act, your stand-up act. I saw you at Caroline`s a couple years ago.
C.K.: Yes.
BEHAR: You were still married.
C.K.: Yes.
BEHAR: And you were just all over your family.
C.K.: Yes.
BEHAR: Your kids, how annoying they are and all the rest of it. Did that contribute to the divorce?
C.K.: No, I wouldn`t -- I mean, I -- it didn`t help certainly. And I do think -- it`s not a great thing to do to your wife to talk about her on stage.
I mean, I`ve always fictionalized, like I call my act in my show autobiographical fiction.
BEHAR: Yes.
C.K.: And so I heightened everything and I -- I talk about how it feels --
BEHAR: That`s right.
C.K.: -- rather than like what really happens.
BEHAR: Yes.
C.K.: And I guess I thought well, we`re talking about -- I think that any good marriage, any marriage is a struggle. And you`re unhappy because you`re trying. Any good -- a good father is a frustrated person, I think.
A happy father who is relaxed is playing golf; he`s not really doing the work. So I never felt like -- but I don`t -- but I didn`t really do a good job of asking my ex for permission and I should have. I mean -- I mean that seriously I could have asked for more.
BEHAR: And the kids, too. What about the kids?
C.K.: Well, the kid -- they are -- these are my kids and they know -- like they know my act --
BEHAR: You own them.
C.K.: -- they don`t know my act that I talk about them. But they know my -- I`ve let them see stuff that they can see.
BEHAR: How old are they now?
C.K.: Five and eight.
And they know what it means to act angry on stage and to -- and to play out frustration. And I do think that everything in my act that I say about my kids is because I love them. If I didn`t love them, I could just leave.
BEHAR: Right.
C.K.: I wouldn`t be frustrated at all. I`d just dye my hair and screw. You know, but --
BEHAR: Yes. So -- so the kids you feel will give you a pass if they ever --
C.K.: I think so and I`m there with them every -- we share custody, my ex and I.
BEHAR: Yes.
C.K.: We share custody, my ex and I, so I`m looking for half of every week. When I`m with my kids, I`m a full-time dad. I don`t work. I divide my work and my fathering up.
BEHAR: That`s good. That`s smart.
C.K.: You know I cook their breakfast and their dinner. I put them to bed; I take them to school. So if they don`t like it, you know, screw them. I mean I do what I can here.
BEHAR: I mean really you`ve bent overboard. So stay right there. We`ll have more with Louis C.K. in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
C.K.: I get really sweaty all the time. And that`s also bad for sex because I just sweat -- I just rain sweat all over people. Like I`m like oh, and that`s what I`m like when I have sex. I`m like oh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. I`m back with comedian Louis C.K. It`s like the feeling of sex is what you`re describing it.
C.K.: Yes.
BEHAR: The feeling of it.
C.K.: That`s right. That`s how I remember it. I don`t think it goes down like that.
BEHAR: No, let`s hope not.
Now I understand you`ve been embraced by the gay community for the new show.
C.K.: Yes, I mean embraced but --
BEHAR: Not literally but spiritually embraced.
C.K.: We have a scene on the show where I`m playing poker with my friends and we start cracking on each other. When they start cracking on each other, we start using gay epithets. That`s how we -- that`s how we play, you know. And there`s a gay guy --
BEHAR: Why?
C.K.: What`s that? Because heterosexual males are uncomfortable with their sexuality, that`s what I think it is.
BEHAR: Around other men.
C.K.: Or anybody and especially around women. Gay men have to go through this crucible like they have a tough life kind of owing who they are. So I think that kind of steels them and makes them confident. Heterosexuals don`t have to go through that.
BEHAR: Oh, I see.
C.K.: I mean that`s what I think. But, anyway, there`s a gay comedian at the poker game. His name his Rick Chrome (ph) -- he`s the comic --
BEHAR: Hilarious. Love, love Rick.
C.K.: I love Rick. Yes. We start asking him about gay sex and gay clubs and he starts telling us details and we`re shrieking like little girls, we just think it`s so funny.
But it`s an interesting exchange. And then we start talking about the word (EXPLETIVE DELETED) comes up.
BEHAR: Offensive word.
C.K.: Yes. And I ask him how do you feel when I say that? You`re a comedian and you`re gay. Do you think I shouldn`t say it? And he gives this really interesting speech about what it means to gay men and where it came from, from his knowledge.
BEHAR: That`s interesting.
C.K.: Yes. So that -- it kind of hit a cord with people and a lot of gay Web sites and stuff were really happy that I put that out there. It was just an honest conversation about it; just a good exchange of ideas.
It wasn`t like a PSA like don`t say this word. It was just here`s what it means and here`s some thoughts about it.
BEHAR: I see.
Now that you`re making a lot of money and you`re a big success.
C.K.: Yes. Is this show going to show in 2040 or something?
BEHAR: Whatever. I don`t know. But we`ll still be talking about Mel Gibson. I know that.
C.K.: Sure. He`ll hit plenty of women between now and then I`m sure.
BEHAR: Are you happy now in your life? You feel happy?
C.K.: Yes, I am. I don`t -- to me, happiness isn`t tied to how well my career is going or anything. I`m happy because of my kids mostly. I have amazing kids. They`re better people than I am. I`m just happy to be in their company. And they like me, so -- you know. I`m happy because of that.
BEHAR: But the divorce can be rough. A divorce is rough. That`s makes you very unhappy.
C.K.: Yes, but divorce is a good thing always. I know --
BEHAR: Every time?
C.K.: Every divorce is good news.
BEHAR: Because?
C.K.: Well, it doesn`t mean that people should get divorced. It means that if you did, thank God you did it. Because there`s no such thing as a bad -- there`s no such thing as a good marriage ending in divorce which would be sad if people were very happy and then they got divorced. That would be tragic.
BEHAR: They don`t. No, they don`t.
C.K.: If you got divorced it means that it wasn`t working and you stopped it, now everything`s better. I think the pressure to stay together for the kids is -- you know, if you`re not getting along you don`t want to show your kids two people that are rotten to each other for their whole lives.
Now we`re separate. I have the kids with me, and she has the kids with her and the kids are happy.
BEHAR: It`s working out. And you know what? The vasectomy is working out, too. Good luck with that.
C.K.: Who know where that will lead? Yes.
BEHAR: Thanks so much for stopping by.
C.K.: Sure.
BEHAR: You can catch "Louie" Tuesdays at 11:00 p.m. on FX. And tickets for Louis C.K.`s theater tour are on sale Saturday. For dates go to Louisck.net.
Up next, I bet Lindsay Lohan is happy Mel Gibson has nudged her out of the headlines. Her latest legal battle --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on the JOY BEHAR SHOW, Mel Gibson has made a career out of making offensive remarks. So how does this latest tirade stack up against his other outbursts?
And the reverend Jesse Jackson tells Joy why the Cleveland Cavaliers` owner`s reaction to Lebron James` departure reaps of a slave master mentality. Now back to Joy.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: You know, I go on vacation for one lousy week and all Mel breaks loose. That`s right, Mel Gibson is at it again, getting caught on tape, ranting and raving and making racial slurs. You know the man is nothing if not consistent. Then the government finds Russian spies in Brooklyn who knew all those years. Did I know that I was buying preshutes (ph) from Boris and Natasha.
And finally after a number of parole violations it looks like Lindsay Lohan will be putting on the orange jumpsuit. Lucky for her that she`s an autumn. That`s all I have to say. Take a look at Lindsay in court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: I know that I was ordered to go once a week, and I wasn`t, you know, I wasn`t missing the classes. I would never do anything like that. I was working mostly. And I was working with children. It wasn`t vacation. It wasn`t some sort of a joke. And I respect you. I`m taking this seriously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: She`s scared now. Here to discuss this further, are hosts of the "Insider" in CBS early show correspondent, Lara Spencer and commentator, comedian, and CBS Sunday morning contributor Mo Rocca. Welcome to the show.
LARA SPENCER, HOST, "THE INSIDER": Thank you.
BEHAR: The judge gave Lindsey. I saw that you were so verklempft when you were watching that.
MO ROCCA, COMMENTATOR/COMEDIAN: Oh my god, it`s like Susan Hayward in "I Want To Live." It`s great. It really is. And that`s the role that she should do. They should remake the movie. That`s an Oscar.
BEHAR: Yes, that`s right, very good. Now, she got 90 days for violating her parole. She didn`t show up when she was supposed to, right?
SPENCER: And the judge had said -- Judge Revel had said, look, you`re going to go once a week and you got to do it. No more messing around after the last little problem. She didn`t do it. She missed seven times.
BEHAR: Yes, right. Now she`s crying. Didn`t she realize when she missed all those types she was going to get the book thrown at her?
MO ROCCA: Oh, yes, the dog ate my crack pipe. That`s always the excuse. I`m kidding. No, she`s just a girl.
SPENCER: No, she`s just a girl.
BEHAR: But did she deserve 90 days? What do you think?
SPENCER: A lot of people are saying that Judge Revel was harsh on her and that you know, maybe she was sort of seeking the spotlight. She actually came back from vacation to do the sentencing herself, which is pretty rare for a judge to do for a misdemeanor.
BEHAR: So those are alligator tears? Alligator tears.
SPENCER: No, so you got to wonder about the judge`s, you know, motivation. Did she want to get her moment in the sun? Was it really tough? I don`t think so --
BEHAR: Oh, you mean the judge`s motivation. I am thinking you meant Lindsay.
SPENCER: A lot of people were thinking - yes, was the judge looking for her O.J. moment? You know, was she looking for her ito?
BEHAR: I see.
SPENCER: So and then Lindsay, was the judge too rough? I don`t think so. I think she gave her fair warning.
BEHAR: Uh huh, absolutely, now, Lindsay`s mother Dina gave an interview to ET about what her daughter is going through. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DINA LOHAN, LINDSAY LOHAN`S MOTHER: Right now obviously she`s petrified, jail time. Number one. Number two, I think she was made a complete spectacle by being a celebrity, unfortunately. So I think the judge is way out of line.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So what do you think about that?
MO ROCCA: I want to say, I am sorry, I can`t get off of casting. I want to see Dina and Lindsay in "Gray Gardens." Wouldn`t that be great? In a remake of "Gray Gardens" in Long Island.
SPENCER: Yes. Those are my people.
BEHAR: Now what about the manicure that she had that said F.U. on her middle fingers. That`s a little provocative.
SPENCER: And on Twitter, she loves that Twitter. I mean honestly can like a subscription to Al bacor for me --
MO ROCCA: Her penmanship - seriously though, her penmanship is dead. A lot of schools don`t teach it. And the handwriting is actually amazing.
SPENCER: Well it is like a stencil. And she says a fun thing she likes to do. It`s like an art class.
MO ROCCA: It`s called, pardon my French manicure.
BEHAR: See I`ll tell you, the penmanship, she must have gone through Catholic school, they teach you to write.
MO ROCCA: They do.
SPENCER: But I have juice for you guys. It`s Lisa Bloom --
MO ROCCA: "Insider" juice.
SPENCER: Yes. Lisa represents Michael Lohan, and she was in court that day with Michael. And she said that Lindsay damn well knew that that camera was on her. It was on her middle finger. She had it pointing it at the judge. She`s an actress. She knew exactly what she was doing. It was on Twitter. She was like, it was something that I do. I love to get, you know, like stars and unicorns.
BEHAR: Oh I see.
SPENCER: And maybe the occasional F.U.
BEHAR: Baloney. Yes, right, exactly, just throw that in.
SPENCER: It`s cute.
BEHAR: Why doesn`t Gloria all-read represent her? She represents all of Tiger`s mistresses.
SPENCER: You know I wonder if Lisa, I know Lisa was trying to help Lindsay`s people find a new attorney because you know Sean has quit. And they have eight days now, eight days to appeal. So Lisa Bloom gave them a big list. And I wonder if Gloria All-read was on it. That`s her mom.
BEHAR: I know that.
SPENCER: I wonder if it will end up being maybe Robert Shapiro.
MO ROCCA: This is exciting casting news. Auditions to be her lawyer.
SPENCER: I want to be in this movie that you`re talking about.
BEHAR: OK, let`s move on to Mel Gibson, unless there`s anything you have to stay about Lindsay.
SPENCER: No.
BEHAR: That`s the scope. Robert Shapiro and --
SPENCER: And she`s got eight days.
BEHAR: And she`s looking for attention and so is the judge. That`s what I glean from this conversation.
SPENCER: Well we don`t know. I mean, yes.
BEHAR: And that she could play the Susan Heyward part. Or --
MO ROCCA: Right.
BEHAR: Or the old lady in radar.
MO ROCCA: Boozing it up into the gas chamber. I mean that`s what happens in "I Want To Live," remember?
BEHAR: Yes.
MO ROCCA: I`m not saying she should go to the gas chamber. That would be excessive.
BEHAR: No, no, in the film. That would be excessive.
MO ROCCA: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: Ninety days in jail is good.
SPENCER: Yes but she`ll only do like 20 days.
BEHAR: She`ll do 20.
SPENCER: Yes.
BEHAR: Is she going to be like really weirded out in jail though? She has never been in jail.
SPENCER: Exactly.
MO ROCCA: She`ll be -
BEHAR: No extensions -
SPENCER: No extensions allowed.
MO ROCCA: She`ll be spending all of her time making tiny little license plates for Barbie.
SPENCER: Well she`s got a skill.
BEHAR: What do you think of the father`s thing? The father was all over the press and he claims that he has been a good father. And then this guy, Shepherd Smith on FOX turned on him and said, you might not have been such a great father. And there was a big fight. What about that?
SPENCER: Well I think there`s some validity there. But I think at the end of the day, at this stage in the game, he`s the only one - I mean, he`s the only one making sense.
MO ROCCA: Wait, who`s side are you on?
SPENCER: Well let`s take it to the wall. Where is it?
BEHAR: All right, let`s turn to Mel Gibson. OK, you`ve heard all the rants -
SPENCER: Oh my god.
BEHAR: Against the girlfriend, and the misogyny. You have heard about the racist remarks, the anti-Semitic remarks. He also is homo -- I don`t even like to use homophobic because it implies there`s a fear of homosexuals.
SPENCER: Right. Homo-hater
BEHAR: Homo-hater.
MO ROCCA: Right.
BEHAR: You know, he gave an interview to a Spanish newspaper in 1991. And he said -- I really can`t say all of it.
SPENCER: No.
BEHAR: I`m not going to say it all. They take it up the da, da, I`m not going to say it.
SPENCER: I didn`t like how he said, do I look like one of them.
BEHAR: He says with this look, who is going to think I`m gay? What does a gay guy look like? Larry Craig, Marc Foley (ph). What does a gay person look like?
MO ROCCA: "Beyond Thunderdome" was pretty gay.
BEHAR: Who?
MO ROCCA: "Beyond Thunderdome."
SPENCER: Mad Max.
MO ROCCA: Mad Max, yes. "Beyond Thuderdome," we don`t need another hero --
BEHAR: Oh yes. I know but don`t you think that that`s kind of nasty of him.
SPENCER: Yes, I mean it was an early glimpse of his character.
BEHAR: And he won`t apologize for it. He said I`ll apologize when hell freezes over. They can (EXPLICATIVE DELETED) off. He says -
MO ROCCA: Oh my god.
BEHAR: Does this guy think he can get away with anything?
MO ROCCA: Well listen, he doesn`t hate Asians, apparently.
BEHAR: Not yet.
MO ROCCA: And China is an emerging market, remember. SO you know, Mel could be the ascendent once again. But the thing is -- it`s apparent he pretty much hates everybody except Asians at this point.
SPENCER: Yes, basically we all suck.
BEHAR: Yes. But I mean did you hear the tape of him yelling at the girlfriend?
MO ROCCA: Terrible.
SPENCER: First of all, I mean, what was going on? Was he on a treadmill while he was yelling at her?
BEHAR: He was hyperventilating.
SPENCER: Unbelievable.
BEHAR: The anger and the rage is so deep that he was hyperventilating.
SPENCER: I thought, it sounded like he was going to have a heart attack. I mean it was frightening.
BEHAR: I know.
SPENCER: She must have been - but it was a little weird - and I understand. I`m sure she meant to tape it. But didn`t she sound like the GPS girl. When she said, you are mean to me.
MO ROCCA: No she did automate it.
BEHAR: No, she`s Russian. It`s her second language.
SPENCER: No, but if you really listen clearly -- she
MO ROCCA: She sounded pretty automated. Yes.
SPENCER: There was one point where it was like, "your destination is jail."
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: She should have -- he should have done it in Aramaic. Only Ahmadinejad would have been offended.
SPENCER: Right.
BEHAR: So now, what about -- the fact that who do you think he hates the most? Let`s go there. The Jews? Who is he most enraged about? Who has hurt him the most?
SPENCER: I think women.
BEHAR: Women. Women.
MO ROCCA: That`s interesting. I don`t know. I think they should do -- you can`t -- you really can`t judge somebody by one rant - and I`d love to see on the Oscars a montage of all of his rants.
BEHAR: Well I have it in front of me and I can`t even read them because they`re so heinous. Mel`s greatest hits. I mean it goes on and on and on, it is two pages filled with rants and slurs.
MO ROCCA: But you know what, I -- he`s not done. I don`t think that this will hurt him.
SPENCER: Yes it will.
MO ROCCA: I really don`t, actually. I mean look at Michael Richards. I mean still Michael Richards --
BEHAR: He`s not working. He --
MO ROCCA: He is on "SEINFELD" two times a night at least. I mean I see him over and over again. He hasn`t aged at all. He looks amazing.
BEHAR: Maybe he should do "Gray Gardens." I mean really, is his career ever going to come back, except in China?
SPENCER: Who would want to see one of his movies now? I mean --
BEHAR: You know William Morris has dumped him. Arian Emmanuel finally decided this was the shorter stroke when he attacked the Jews, bad enough, but now he went overboard.
MO ROCCA: Right, right. Well I mean, but I have to ask, where were they in the early `90s, the agency when he was making the anti-gay remarks?
SPENCER: Yes -
BEHAR: Exactly.
MO ROCCA: It`s a little -
SPENCER: I mean this morning, it dawned on me, when it was all going on, I thought, now you know, he`s not going to make them any money. He`s only going to be able to finance movies, and they can`t make any commission on that. So --
BEHAR: Right.
SPENCER: Enough, good bye.
BEHAR: And they waited until his manager died before they got rid of him.
MO ROCCA: Yes.
BEHAR: So what are you saying that disingenuous of the William Morris office is Arian Emmanuel? Good thing I don`t need an agent any more.
MO ROCCA: Well what`s that -
SPENCER: However, I do. So good night.
BEHAR: I mean, what are you saying?
MO ROCCA: No, I`m saying it seems a little odd that, you know, that it took all of this - I`m not saying, I don`t think anyone deserves the congressional medal of honor here. I find it very funny when Hollywood is in high dudgeon. It`s very rich, I think, that everybody is this offended.
BEHAR: What about the wine thing? The wine excuse, that he was drunk? Who cares if you were in Vino Veritas. Thank you guys very much.
SPENCER: It was fun.
BEHAR: OK in the aftermath of the Lebron James circus, Jesse Jackson compares the owner of the Cleveland Caves to a slave owner. Jesse will stop by to explain his comments next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Basketball superstar Lebron James says he went to Miami because he wants to win. The owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers, Dan Gilbert, says Lebron just went to Miami for the money. Maybe he went tore the early bird specials. Anybody ever think of that? Anyway, a war of words has ensued between Gilbert and Lebron James. Here to discuss are the reverend Jesse Jackson and Marc Lamont Hill, a professor of anthropology and education at Columbia University. Jesse, let me start with you. Now Cavs owner Dan Gilbert, he wrote an open letter to the Cleveland Ohio fans, and he called Lebron going to Miami, quote, "a shameful display of selfishness and betrayal by one of our very own." And he said to the fans, quote, "you simply don`t deserve this kind of cowardly betrayal." What do you make of that?
REVEREND JESSE JACKSON, FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT, RAINDBOW/PUSH COALITION: He said, is this the way that you`re raising your children. More than that, he said in a game against Orlando, that Lebron quit. In four games against Boston, Lebron quit. Quitting in a game which has an impact is a scandal. If Lebron did that, that`s a scandal. He did not do it. And if he`s accused of that, that`s defamation of character. And so the owner has no proprietary rights beyond Lebron making a contract deal with him. I think he`s upset, Joy, for two reasons. One, beside the audacity of Lebron to make a decision to leave. But he`s building a casino near the stadium. So Lebron before putting in double duty of ballpark and stadium. And these three guys, Chris and Lebron and Dwayne. That`s what owners do. They formed an organization, as it were, and created a whole new team dynamic.
BEHAR: Those are the stars, those are the three stars in Miami now, right, OK?
JACKSON: That`s right. An so and so if I own your contract, I cover you. If I do not own your contract, I discredit you. And just as when players and coaches, if they over speak about the referee, about his call, they can be suspended or they can be fined.
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: And then if the owner does this to a player and seeks to discredit him and the game, he should be apologize and be fined.
BEHAR: OK let me get to something you wrote about this Gilbert, the Cavs owner. You said he speaks as an owner of Lebron and not the owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers.
JACKSON: Indeed.
BEHAR: His feelings of betrayal personify a slave master mentality. He sees Lebron as a runaway slave. Do you think that`s a little over the top Jesse?
JACKSON: No, that`s an extension of our culture. You know Kurt Flood has been asked to leave St. Louis and go to New York against his will. He says I`m not slave. He filed for free agency. He was kicked out of baseball, but he won that lawsuit. The reason why all these ball players, football, basketball, baseball, and free agency cause strictly defied the plantation mentality of owners of teams.
BEHAR: I got you.
JACKSON: And then a step further, when expressed to Haywood demanded eligibility rights and he won that lawsuit.
BEHAR: I see.
JACKSON: The idea that owners own franchises, they do not own players, we won that lawsuit.
BEHAR: I understand what you were going for there, the ownership thing. And you have a point. It`s a good metaphor I think or an analogy. But I mean Cleveland had to paid Lebron over $60 million. So it`s a little bit -- what do you make of that?
MARC LAMONT HILL, CULTURAL ANTHROPOLOGIST: but, you don`t know how much money he made for Cleveland.
BEHAR: That`s true.
JACKSON: Not only did he generate revenue, but he didn`t like leave his contract early. He worked out his contract deal. And the owner owns the team - did not always - he got that license because of Lebron`s drawing base. He was the double duty of the ball team and the casino and so he feels a bit spurned.
BEHAR: Yes. OK, Marc, let me talk to you about the fact that the NBA is dominated by black players. We know that.
HILL: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Right? And only one black majority owner Michael Jordan. So what the reverend is saying has some validity. I mean --
HILL: Oh, absolutely. First of all, the deck is stacked in favor of owners, number one. And number two, most of the owners are white and most of the players are black. There`s something inherently exploitative about the relationship between owners and players in the NBA and in the NFL and every place else. And what you often see is fans and owners get outraged when players actually have the temerity to defend themselves and act in their own best interests. People got mad at Terrel Owens and said he was crazy for not wanting to play out his contract and demand a higher contract. Yet NFL owners will cut you without a moment`s notice. So there`s always all this power on the side of owners but not on the side of players. I don`t see anything wrong with saying that Dan Gilbert acted as a slave owner. I don`t think that Lebron James is a slave. That not understates how much power and money he has. It also is disrespect to people who were slaves. But Reverend Jackson is absolutely right in saying --
BEHAR: Well he was using it as a metaphor.
HILL: No absolutely and Dan Gilbert sounded like a spurned lover. He sounded like someone who owned Lebron. He was outraged that Lebron had the audacity to go somewhere else.
BEHAR: I understand, I heard that but -
JACKSON: Today we called the commission`s office. And spoke to the association. You know what a scandal it is for a player to quit and therefore shave points.
HILL: Right.
JACKSON: That is an illegal -- it`s illegal, it`s illicit and it`s also a scandal. And so if to accuse the player of that. And there`s marketability.
HILL: It was awful.
BEHAR: Well it is -
JACKSON: If you play for me, I cover you. If you don`t play for me --
BEHAR: Maybe this guy, this Gilbert, way trying to speak to the Cleveland fans. I mean they just lost their biggest, most lucrative player.
HILL: And so did Gilbert. Because remember the price --
BEHAR: that`s who I`m talking about.
HILL: No but I mean the value of the Cleveland Cavs as a team went up $100 million when Lebron James was on it.
BEHAR: That`s right.
HILL: So with Lebron leaving, Dan Gilbert is losing a ton of money. So he in many ways, does see Lebron James as property, he does see Lebron James as a physical investment. I don`t think he was just trying to motivate fans. Because as Cleveland Cavaliers is going to be a terrible team next year. And Cleveland has never been a cool place. Nobody wants to be in Cleveland when they can be in Miami. Let`s just say that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I don`t know about that. I hate Miami.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: From a sport -
JACKSON: I think the real point is in addition to owning the Cavaliers, he has not gotten the license to own a casino. You come to Cleveland to see Lebron --
HILL: That`s my point.
JACKSON: You get the double duty of the Cavaliers stadium and the casino. He has a big deal going with Lebron. When Lebron went away, he felt spurned.
HILL: That`s my point, there`s a whole industry around Lebron. That`s bigger than basketball that`s what Gilbert is upset about. And that is where the ownership part of this comes in. I agree with you 100 percent.
BEHAR: I`ve run out of time.
JACKSON: And these three young men, the former deal is a real investment mentality.
BEHAR: OK, thank you Jesse, thanks Marc, sit tight Marc. We`ll be back in a minute and we`ll talk some more.
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Hello, hello, stay with us friends, we are speaking justice.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with cultural anthropologist Marc Lamont Hill. And while I have you here, I want you to listen to this radar online tape, little thing, this tape. It says it`s Mel Gibson`s voice on this tape. CNN confirms that the female voice is his ex-girlfriend`s Oksana Grigorieva and she also says the other voice is Gibson`s. So listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
OKSANA GRIGORIEVA: I don`t walk around -
MEL GIBSON: But I want -
GRIGORIEVA: I don`t walk around in tight clothes (EXPLICATIVE DELETED). I stay home most of the time.
GIBSON: You go out in public and it`s an embarrassment to me. You look like a pack of wolves (EXPLICATIVE DELETED) heat. And if you get raped by a pack of (EXPLICATIVE DELETED) that`s your fault. All right? You provoked it. You are provocatively dressed all the time with your fake boobs you feel you have to show off.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BEHAR: So where does hate come from? I mean he hates everybody.
HILL: Apparently, he`s equal opportunity hate. Women, Jews, blacks, everyone. I mean Ican`t speak to Mel Gibson`s own personal biography. But it seems to me that someone like him was raised in a house filled of hate. We know his father has had very problematic relationship with Jews.
BEHAR: Well his father denies the holocaust ever existed.
HILL: Right.
BEHAR: Which is mental illness right there.
HILL: That`s exactly right and I think when you build on top of that - you know, a whole legacy of hating and never really had anyone challenge him. And he`s been a celebrity. He`s had a team of yes men around --
BEHAR: So what about the in Vino Veritas thing, where he gets drunk and says all these things?
HILL: Well right. Then he goes into racist rehab or whatever he did.
BEHAR: Oh yes, racist rehab.
HILL: Exactly.
BEHAR: That`s a good one.
HILL: Yes.
BEHAR: But he uses the n word in this rant to instill fear that she`s going to be raped by a bunch of black guys.
HILL: Yes.
BEHAR: There`s something like so annoying about -- I mean, respond to that.
HILL: Well I mean there`s something sort of disturbing and sick about the fact that he used this as the kind of image to conjure. Knowing Mel Gibson, he could have just as easily found another racial stereotype. He`s equal opportunity.
BEHAR: Yes.
HILL: But there`s something about the n word in American history that provokes a certain kind of fear and a certain kind of terror. On the one hand, using it against black people is terror from the state. On the other hand, it`s a kind of terror when it is used against white people because the black people is dangerous and have been violently immoral and all these bad things.
BEHAR: Right. The n word is an interesting phenomenon. You`re an anthropologist. I mean some people can use it and some people can`t. It seems.
HILL: Yes.
BEHAR: Rap artists use it. But you know, if I used it, god forbid, which I never would -
HILL: Right.
BEHAR: I would be attacked for that and I would deserve it. But who can use it and who can`t?
HILL: Well there is a lot of internal differences within the black community about who can use it. But there is a certain sense not just about using the word but what the word means. Because the word has been wrapped in so much hate and violence and protection from the government at times, it has a different response to white people than it does for black people. Black people in many ways have reused that word, rearticulated that word in a way that`s redemptive and in a way that signifies brotherhood and love. I`m not saying you should use it. But it does mean something different when black people use it and white people use it.
BEHAR: I guess. Of course. You own your own - like I can say bitch.
HILL: And I can`t.
BEHAR: I can call a woman a bitch and you really can`t.
HILL: And also three jobs I think -
BEHAR: Yes, now you remember Michael Richards` rant.
HILL: Exactly.
BEHAR: That was out of control. We haven`t really seen him anymore.
HILL: No.
BEHAR: So I think Mel Gibson stepped on the last tack.
HILL: Oh absolutely, the first one again, he went to rehab. He said it was an accident, the alcohol made me do it.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
HILL: Yes, now the second time around, there`s no excuse. You know what I mean, it`s obvious that he`s just a bad person who says bad things, sometimes when he`s drunk, sometimes when he`s sober.
BEHAR: Do you have any real advice for him?
HILL: Go away, go away. And stay as far away as you can forever. I really hope we never have to see or talk about Mel Gibson again. Except maybe here.
BEHAR: Well, except on this show.
HILL: Right.
BEHAR: OK, thanks very much for joining us.
HILL: Pleasure.
BEHAR: OK, and thank you all for watching. Good night, everybody.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
