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Joy Behar Page
Lindsay Lohan`s Last Day of Freedom; Mel Versus Oksana
Aired July 19, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight, is Mel Gibson heading back to Australia? I think that would be great. Then he could watch his career go down the toilet counterclockwise.
Then friends say Lindsay Lohan is in denial about going to prison. Look, a little jail time never hurt anyone. Look how it reformed that master criminal Martha Stewart.
And Larry Hagman played a powerful oilman on Dallas, but he`s given up drilling for shilling, for solar power. That and more right now.
It was the night before prison and all through the house not a creature was stirring except Lindsay Lohan`s lawyer. The troubled actress is supposed to begin serving a 90-day jail sentence tomorrow, but is she mentally prepared to go?
Here to discuss further are Lisa Bloom, an attorney at the bloomfirm.com, she`s also the lawyer for Lindsay`s father Michael Lohan; former prosecutor Robin Sax and E! Online columnist, Marc Malkin.
Ok, let me start with you Lisa. Robert Shapiro has confirmed that he`s Lindsay`s lawyer. He says, "I have agreed to represent Ms. Lohan on the condition that she complies with all of the terms of her probation including requirement of jail time." Now, Shapiro was a criminal defense attorney. What do you think about him saying that he wants her to go to jail?
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL LOHAN: I think it`s very odd, Joy. Now I`m not privy to whatever conversations Robert Shapiro may have had behind the scenes with his client, Lindsay Lohan, but the first job of a criminal defense attorney is to fight for the liberty of their client.
And I know that up until she got together with Robert Shapiro, Lindsay was saying that she wanted to avoid going to jail. She wanted an attorney to file for an appeal for her. That would have bought her six to 12 months. If she won the appeal, she wouldn`t have gone to jail at all.
So, when he says he wants her to go to jail, he sounds more like a father or a therapist or a concerned friend, but a criminal defense attorney would ordinarily be fighting for the liberty of his client. And then you add to that that she`s going to his rehab facility, which isn`t really rehab but a sober living facility, the whole thing is unusual.
BEHAR: You know, Robin, why doesn`t she just get a public defender and save all that money? What does she need to pay Robert Shapiro all that money for if he wants her to go to jail? I don`t get it either.
ROBIN SAX, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Listen, public defenders are fantastic, particularly in Los Angeles, particularly at nagging and wearing down prosecutors. But in this situation what Robert Shapiro may be actually saying in terms of I`m going to comply or make Lindsay comply with the terms and conditions of probation including jail does not necessarily mean he`s not going to argue for less time.
He may be saying, ok, we`re going to go to jail and comply with it, but we`re going to try to whittle it down to 30 days or go back to the drawing board and try to negotiate. So that appearance of, I`m going to cooperate, is different than I`m going to cooperate completely.
BEHAR: I see. So he just wants to minimize the time, not get her out -- he can`t get her out, is what you`re saying?
SAX: Right. He may or may not be able to get her out, but he may be able to make a credible argument. Judge Revel has a longstanding relationship with Robert Shapiro and, of course, his relationship with his sober living facility may buy him some credibility in terms of minimizing the amount of time in the long run.
BEHAR: Ok. Marc, how many times has Lindsay been in rehab at this point?
MARC MALKIN, E! ONLINE COLUMNIST: She`s been in rehab three times now. You have sober living. If she goes to rehab again after the jail time, it`s going to be her fourth time in rehab in very little amount of years.
BEHAR: You know, ladies, I`ll ask this question of you. Knowing her track record in rehab, could jail time basically be the best thing for her. I mean in June Dr. Drew Pinsky has said that if Lindsay Lohan was his daughter he would set her up to get arrested as a means of getting her into rehab. So maybe she --
BLOOM: I strongly disagree with that. I don`t agree that anybody I continue think that anybody should be lying or planting evidence. I also don`t think jail is the right place for her. Look last time, she only ended up serving 84 minutes because the practical reality is L.A. jails are so overcrowded.
For her 90-day sentence, this time I`d expect her to do three weeks or less. So she goes in, she has a short time, she gets out. What does that do for her? We all pay for that. She doesn`t learn any kind of a lesson except that the criminal justice system was a joke that she can`t take seriously. I don`t see what good jail really would do for her.
BEHAR: Well, she -- go ahead, jump in. Jump in, Lisa -- not Lisa, Robin.
SAX: I disagree. I think jail would be fantastic for her. Because I think in order to go to rehab, you have to actually admit you have a problem, want to deal with your problem and bring it on. I mean she was pretty much going kicking and screaming at this point. And there are ways to make 90-day sentences actually 90 days. If the court can order a return date, a sentence date and can actually ensure -- we do it all the times in the L.A. courts where we can ensure that the defendant actually serves the amount of times that you want.
So there are ways to play with it. I think if she takes a lesson from Robert Downey Jr. -- we saw prison worked for him. That may be the only way to save her life.
BLOOM: Here`s the big giant legal loophole, prescription medications. My client Michael Lohan and I have been saying for many months that that`s her problem. She can take the prescription meds in jail. She can take the prescription meds in rehab. If that is her problem and they`re excluded from her random drug testing right now, her problem is not being addressed by the system.
BEHAR: Well, what should they address? What should they address?
MALKIN: But the problem is she`s also --
BLOOM: Well, we`ve written a letter to the court, Joy, saying they should be included in her random drug testing and that the doctors who are giving her these large amounts of prescription drugs should be investigated because we don`t want another Anna Nicole or Michael Jackson. We`ve seen celebrities die over and over again from prescription drugs. We have to wake up to the reality of prescription drug abuse and that`s what we think is going on with Lindsay.
BEHAR: Yes. Marc, go ahead. What were you going to say?
MALKIN: I mean I agree that is a larger issue. But right here this is Lindsay Lohan. I mean whether or not she`s doing prescription drugs or illicit drugs, the thing is she broke the law. She broke the law many times.
Now, if she just gets to go right into rehab, doesn`t do the jail time, everyone is going to turn around in L.A. and start using the Lindsay Lohan defense.
BEHAR: Yes. That`s true, Lisa, he has a point.
BLOOM: Well, I don`t necessarily agree with that. Yes, she broke the law, but if we want to actually stop her from breaking the law in the future, we have to address the underlying problem and not close our eyes to it and say, well, if doctors prescribe the drugs, it`s ok. We have to wake up to the reality of what`s really going on with her to protect all of us from her.
MALKIN: I don`t believe anyone --
SAX: We don`t know what the underlying problem is.
MALKIN: I don`t think closing our --
BEHAR: One at a time. Go ahead, Marc.
MALKIN: I don`t think anyone`s closing their eyes to it. The judge has said, you`re going to go to jail, then you`re going to rehab. The rehab part is the part that says -- whether it`s prescription drug or not, it doesn`t matter. She`s been sentenced to rehab.
BLOOM: Well, it does matter if you can continue to take the drugs that are the problem in rehab and in jail, then that problem`s not really being addressed.
MALKIN: But rehab is going to address that, whether it`s prescription drugs or not, that`s what rehab`s there for.
BEHAR: But she`s been in rehab -- she`s been in rehab a lot.
(CROSS TALKING)
BLOOM: She started taking prescription drugs in first place.
BEHAR: And also Marc, she`s been in rehab a few times already. I mean right now she`s in this facility, I guess, Pickford Lofts. What`s she doing in there? Do we know anything about that?
MALKIN: Sober living is where, you know, obviously people go to after they have treatment. They want to stay sober. Each sober living situation has a different way of doing things. Some have 12-step programs, some are just sort of lockdown, you have to be in at 9:00, so on and so forth. But I don`t think that anyone`s disagreeing here that she needs help. Just because she`s been in rehab before doesn`t mean she shouldn`t do rehab now.
BEHAR: Well, that`s true.
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: Go ahead.
SAX: I got to tell you, her wanting to do this rehab actually makes me nervous.
BEHAR: Why?
SAX: Because I don`t want anything that Lindsay wants, because she doesn`t want help yet. You don`t go in at the 11th hour to a sober care facility which is not a rehab facility. She`s been trying every excuse, every way, every search for every lawyer to get her what she wants. This is the closest thing to cutting time down. And I don`t think that this is about making Lindsay happy, this is about making Lindsay healthy and making her held accountable for the crimes that she committed.
BEHAR: Well, Marc, There are reports that Lindsay still thinks she won`t have to go to jail. She`s in a kind of a denial state and that her family and friends are worried that she`s suicidal. Have you heard anything about that?
MALKIN: I haven`t heard suicidal. But I think, you know -- the fact is, of course she`s in denial. She doesn`t want to see herself going to jail. She never thought something like this would happen.
As we see, she thinks she`s above it all and nothing`s going to happen. She`s obviously sick. She thinks I`m not going to go to jail because I didn`t have to go to jail before and when I did go to jail, it was for three minutes.
BEHAR: Yes, but she is going to jail this time. She is.
MALKIN: Yes, she is.
BEHAR: Maybe she should go on "Celebrity Rehab" because she`s certainly more interesting to me than this Rachel Uchitel chick who just got a job on "Celebrity Rehab". I`d like to see Lindsay there. Then everybody can watch her and maybe she`ll enjoy that.
MALKIN: I think the problem there, though, is Lindsay, she craves this attention. Walk away from her. Don`t give her the spotlight; don`t put her on "Celebrity Rehab".
BEHAR: Maybe she needs to be satiated with attention so that she finishes off with it. You know.
Anyway, what do you think, Robin, what`s jail going to be like for the girl?
SAX: She`s likely to be in some sort of isolation or solitary confinement. Right now the sheriff`s department can`t deal with the fact that there`s going to be a celebrity there and have risk her health and safety and the well-being of the other inmates as well. She`s likely to have 23 hours a day lock up with one hour of exercise. She probably won`t have to bathe or shower with other people which would be the normal protocol in the jail.
It will be a lot different than any hotel or rehab or any other place that she`s ever spent any time.
(CROSS TALKING)
SAX: Go ahead.
BEHAR: She`s going to be all by herself then. Like Mel Gibson at a Hadassah mixer.
SAX: That is true. She`s likely to be alone. Maybe it will give her some time to think.
BEHAR: Paris Hilton was in one of these -- in this exact facility, I understand. She loved it. She thought it was just fabulous. So maybe -- you know maybe --
SAX: I don`t know about that.
BEHAR: We don`t know about that. What does Michael Lohan want for his daughter right now, Lisa?
BLOOM: I can tell you Joy, you know, I sat with him in court when Lindsay was sentenced. He was devastated, he was sobbing and he was very upset. He`s been incarcerated in his life. I mean, he knows what it`s like. And he`s admitted the mistakes that he`s made and apologized for them.
He does not want to see his daughter to go to jail. And I think if he thinks -- we all think of Lindsay Lohan as the celebrity that we watch. But this is his daughter; this is his flesh and blood who he loves very much.
So he`s devastated. And he was hoping that her attorney would fight to keep her out of jail. And he`s very disappointed that that has not happened.
BEHAR: You know, not for nothing, but you really have to be good parents to these children and maybe he wasn`t and that`s why she`s the way she is.
BLOOM: Well, you know, he`s taken responsibility for the mistakes that he`s made. I mean, there`s no doubt about it but he has been there for her over the last months and years even when she rejects him, Joy.
I mean, I`ve sat with him in the courtroom, when she asks for water and nobody will bring it to her, Michael runs out to the vending machine and hands her a bottle of water. And he says I love you honey, God bless.
He fights for her to go to rehab. And he`s been crying from the mountain tops for the last six months that she should go to rehab that would keep her out of jail.
BEHAR: Right.
BLOOM: She`s been ignoring his entreaties (ph) and she through her attorneys had been ignoring my entreaties to do that. If she was done what she was doing now, three months ago or six months ago, she wouldn`t be going to jail.
So I tell Michael, look, I don`t care what mistakes you made in the past.
BEHAR: Ok.
BLOOM: You`re there for your daughter now and you`re fighting for her now and good for you. He`s there in court each time.
BEHAR: Ok.
BLOOM: He`s the only family member that`s there for her in court.
BEHAR: All right.
BLOOM: Whatever his faults, he shows up.
BEHAR: All right, Lisa thanks.
Better late than never, I guess, right? Thanks very much.
Up next, Mel Gibson`s ex-wife comes to his defense. And rumors that Mel is moving back to Australia. We finally found a group Mel has nothing against, the dingoes.
I`ll have the latest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on the JOY BEHAR SHOW Donald Trump hires and then fires rumored Tiger Woods mistress, Rachel Uchitel after finding out she`s also starring in "Celebrity Rehab".
And actor Larry Hagman talks about his conversion from Dallas oil tycoon to solar power advocate.
Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Mel Gibson`s soon-to-be ex-wife says that Mel was never abusive during their 30-year marriage. Call me fussy, but I think running off with a Russian woman with plastic knockers is abusive.
With me now is Debra Opri, a family law attorney who has handled many high level cases; Sarah Symonds, infidelity analyst and the author of "Having an Affair: A handbook for the other Woman"; and Jessica Shaw, a senior writer for "Entertainment Weekly."
Jessica, his ex-wife is coming to his defense. Why?
JESSICA SHAW, SENIOR WRITER, "ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY": She wants those payments. She wants her alimony. I`m just kidding. You know I think --
BEHAR: Well, you know it isn`t settled yet, the divorce is not really --
SHAW: Right, exactly.
BEHAR: -- settled.
SHAW: She would be wise not to say anything too mean, but they do have like 10,000 children together. And I think that she -- I`m sure on some level she wants to protect him. And also it`s possible he was never physically or emotionally abusive toward her. That doesn`t mean he wasn`t toward Oksana; that just means he wasn`t toward her.
BEHAR: Right, right.
Debra, he says -- she says that he was a wonderful and loving father and that -- that the kids -- he loved his kids although he did refer to them as a pack of hunkies -- kidding.
DEBRA OPRI, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Yes, Joy. It`s in you.
BEHAR: How important is this ex-wife`s statements in this whole scenario?
OPRI: History of abuse is an important element in proving domestic violence here in California. I`m a California family attorney. And I would go out there and I would have been on my hands and knees if I were Mel Gibson begging Robyn to give a declaration. Maybe he didn`t have to do that. Robyn willingly gave a declaration. And it was very advantageous to him.
But the key thing that she didn`t mentioned in there which struck me immediately, even though she said he has never been physically abusive to either me or the children --
BEHAR: Yes.
OPRI: -- she never said he was never emotionally abusive. And domestic violence includes domestic emotional abuse.
BEHAR: Wow.
OPRI: Yes.
BEHAR: Well, Sarah, do you have a response to that, Sara?
SARAH SYMONDS, INFIDELITY ANALYST: Hi, Joy. Thanks for having me on.
BEHAR: Sure.
SYMONDS: I`m thrilled to be here.
Well, first of all, I think there`s a history between Mel and his ex- wife, so no doubt she`s going to stand up for him. They were together for 28 years they are companions. I don`t think their divorce was that acrimonious? And I`m inclined to believe her statement over a woman who started off as his mistress and we`ve only known in his life for about two years.
BEHAR: How can you say it`s not acrimonious though, Sarah, when I mean, they were married for so many years. They have seven children.
SHAW: And she wanted $500 million, I mean --
BEHAR: She basically --
SYMONDS: Because we haven`t heard anything in the media about it being very acrimonious. And the way they`re dealing with it shows that they`ve just sort of drifted apart. It happens. They had a stale marriage that came to an end. Mel is a typical middle-aged man who went and thought the grass was greener somewhere else and it`s imploded on him.
BEHAR: I see --
OPRI: And the divorce -- the divorce has been very amicable because there`s been nothing out there both parties wanted to be private. And there`s no pre-nup so Robyn is entitled to half of everything he earned in those years.
BEHAR: And yet he`s claiming that he has no money.
SHAW: Right.
BEHAR: I mean at one point I read that he had to give up his Lakers tickets because he`s so broke. Give me a break.
SHAW: But the $5 million he gave to the Russian girl to make the pop video probably didn`t help his bank account, did it?
BEHAR: No not at all. Now some rumors are saying that they`re moving to Australia. Is there any truth to that?
SHAW: I don`t -- I don`t see that happening.
BEHAR: No?
SHAW: I think that he thinks that he lays low. And it`s amazing, there have been very few if any paparazzi shots of him recently. I think he thinks if he lays low, this will go away, but I don`t think it will. Because I think, you know the first time when he -- he -- those anti- Semitic slurs and everything, it was shocking that people were still coming out in support of him.
But that`s -- two strikes, you`re out. I really think that with this --
BEHAR: Yes.
SHAW: -- people are -- enough, enough already.
BEHAR: I mean, they didn`t drop him from the William Morris office after those --
SHAW: Right, right.
BEHAR: -- anti-Semitic rants.
SHAW: Why was that not enough? Why wait for this to happen.
BEHAR: Because they fail to withdraw --
SHAW: Ed Limato (ph) that`s why.
BEHAR: That`s why and also his agent Limato.
SHAW: Right.
BEHAR: Was alive and the guy`s passed on. So they were like ok, bye- bye.
SHAW: Right.
SYMONDS: But Joy --
BEHAR: Go ahead.
SYMONDS: What I do find amazing is that the same thing happened with Charlie Sheen in Hollywood. He was convicted of beating up his wife, holding a knife to her neck and threatening to kill her, yet he`s been convicted -- Mel Gibson hasn`t yet, so we can`t judge him yet.
He`s still on the TV every week. And it`s almost helped his reputation. I think that`s really hypocritical.
BEHAR: Well, with Charlie Sheen, money talks. I mean, that show`s a big moneymaker.
SYMONDS: Well --
BEHAR: And they need him or it`s not going to make any money.
SYMONDS: But Mel has made massive amounts of money for box office.
OPRI: But Joy you also -- you also had the police called immediately in the Charlie Sheen incident and there was --
SYMONDS: And that`s what Oksana should have done.
BEHAR: Yes but -- that people are saying that what Sarah is saying that she should have called the police when he allegedly knocked her teeth out. What about that?
SHAW: You know that`s the classic blame the victim argument. I think she didn`t, she was scared. You can come up with all sort of reasons, but to the point about his future earnings and then what you said about money talks. He just wrapped a movie with Jodie Foster called "The Beaver" which is about a man who is really into his hand puppet.
So I`m not necessarily --
BEHAR: Is it a musical?
(CROSS TALKING)
SHAW: I wish. Give me the lead on that one.
And here`s a movie that says for domestic distribution, they don`t know what`s going to happen with this. They presold the foreign rights but no one wants to touch this domestically.
BEHAR: Really?
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: Ok. Well, he still has millions and millions. Ok. Guys, stay right there, more on the Mel Gibson saga when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We`re back discussing Mel`s alleged meltdown. Sarah, a lot of people -- I was at a party the other night. -- a lot of people were saying that Oksana set Mel up. What do you say to that?
SYMONDS: I believe it. I mean -- I think Mel was absolutely set up. I think his problem was getting involved with this woman in the first place.
Can I just say I, in no way condone physical violence or any kind of violence or abuse nor racism? In fact, I set up a support group a number of years ago that helps women get out of toxic relationships every day. And I work with real life women, women who are watching your show tonight, Joy, who do not have the access to expensive lawyers, resources, possible extortion.
BEHAR: Right.
SYMONDS: I`d like to just take a moment to reach out to those women because she is -- this woman, this Russian woman Oksana -- she ridiculing the absolute, the fact that we are pushed under the carpet and the fact that those tapes are tampered with. Anyone with half a brain would realize that they`ve been sliced and diced -- completely manipulated. They probably won`t be admissible in court. So he will probably never get convicted even if he did hit her.
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: I don`t know how they can slice and dice them that much because it was a stream of --
SYMONDS: Have you listened to them?
BEHAR: It was a stream of invectives.
SYMONDS: That was not an argument; that was a one-sided rant. What woman stands there when a guy`s going at you like that and just says, um, oh -- it`s scripted?
(CROSS TALKING)
DEBRA: Can I jump in here?
BEHAR: Just a sec, Debra. One second Debra. Go ahead.
SHAW: I think, again, it`s like a blame the victim thing. Why are we judging her for standing there and standing and staying listening to this? And also even if they are sliced and diced, I don`t care. The things that came out of his mouth --
BEHAR: He did say it.
SHAW: He said them. These were hateful, horrible, vitriolic things.
BEHAR: I would have done the same thing.
SYMONDS: Who hasn`t said certain things? But this is not a two-sided argument. Maybe she`s the racist. We didn`t hear what this woman says. Maybe she`s the biggest racist?
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: Who cares?
(CROSS TALKING)
SYMONDS: I`m not condoning it.
BEHAR: No, you`re not condoning it, but you`re saying who hasn`t said things like that.
(CROSS TALKING)
SYMONDS: I have had those kinds of arguments. I also listen to a lot of rap songs. I`ve heard worse words than that in rap songs that we all go buy and spend money on.
BEHAR: Yes, but this was an assault on somebody. He`s saying them. He`s not singing them. He`s not singing. He`s saying them to her specifically. And he`s very scary in it, to tell you the truth.
Go ahead Debra.
OPRI: Ok. This is what we have to understand. I represent a lot of women with men who have money and with men who don`t have money in this situation. And the first thing I`m going to say when they call me and say, you wouldn`t believe, he threatened me. He punched me out last night. I would say you go immediately in 24 hours and make a police report. If you want to pursue charges, that`s one thing. If you don`t want to, that`s another but you have to make a record. I would have --
BEHAR: But a lot of people are scared to do that because they`re afraid that the husband will then come and hit them more or kill them.
SYMOND: She wasn`t scared to allegedly go shop the tapes.
OPRI: There are a lot of people afraid of reporting things, but we have to be very fair to Mel and Oksana here and ask, what were the circumstances by which she didn`t report him?
BEHAR: I agree.
SYMONDS: I agree.
OPRI: And what was she expecting in return?
It`s not the last time he`s lost his temper or the first time, is it?
BEHAR: All right. You know, they made a video together.
Can we just go out showing the part of the video that Oksana and Mel made together? I must.
There it is. Isn`t that charming? The piano bursts into flames. I hope he doesn`t blame it on the Jews.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Tiger Woods` alleged number one mistress Rachel Uchitel has signed on for the upcoming season of VH-1 "CELEBRITY REHAB." I don`t know what she`s addicted to, but I assume it`s not obscurity. Anyway, signing on to that show caused Donald Trump to rescind his offer for her to appear on the next "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE." With me to discuss this and more are comedian Craig Shoemaker, Andy Cohen, host "WATCH WHAT HAPPENS LIVE ON BRAVO", and Galina Espinoza editorial director for "Latina" Magazine. Yes, OK now once Trump heard that she was going to do "CELEBRITY REHAB," she got the old heave ho and he said, it`s interesting what he said. He goes, it`s a terrible decision. We have zero interest in her now. He fired her before she was even on the show. Look at what "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE" did for Pierce Morgan, he said. He`s getting Larry King`s job. She made a bad mistake. OK so what do you think? Did she make a mistake?
ANDY COHEN, BRAVO`S SENIOR VP, ORIGINAL PROG. AND DEVELOP: First of all, I don`t know - I don`t know that I believe that she really had the offer for "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE."
BEHAR: Well it looks like it.
COHEN: We don`t know. Well he`s saying we don`t care anymore. But I don`t know. She`s getting half a million dollars, I think, to appear on "CELEBRITY REHAB" -
BEHAR: That`s right.
COHEN: And she`ll knock whatever pill addiction she has hopefully, so it is a two-fer kind of. So I don`t know how much she was getting paid for "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE" but I`m assuming that she took whatever the highest offer was.
BEHAR: Is it a real pill or is it like, she calls Tiger Woods a pill?
COHEN: I don`t know.
GALINA ESPINOZA, EDITORIAL DIECTOR, LATINA MAGAZINE: Does it matter because she`s right on trend. Every celebrity is going into rehab these days. So she`s simply re-inventing herself right in line with what everyone else is doing.
BEHAR: Do you think it`s going to help or hurt her image? Or do we care? Or does she care?
CRAIG SHOEMAKER, COMEDIAN: What image? This is how people get a career these days. It is never based on talent.
BEHAR: That`s right.
SHOEMAKER: Like you developed your talent.
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
SHOEMAKER: That`s what`s important to you. You didn`t make it -- we don`t see the headline, you know, Joy Behar sex tape coming out.
BEHAR: That`s what you think. It`s being shown at the Hebrew home for the aged right now. Now, she was treating her addiction seriously, though, would she go on a TV show for treatment?
SHOEMAKER: No.
BEHAR: All of these celebrities that go on "CELEBRITY REHAB" Dr. Drew Pinsky says they`re serious. What do you think?
ESPINOZA: Well I think they all end up relapsing. They don`t have a great track record over at that show. And it doesn`t seems like she`s known for having a problem. So it does seems like a little bit of her trying to make another bid for fame.
COHEN: I think she went for the highest money offer. I mean I don`t know what "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE" pays but I think -
BEHAR: Wait a second, didn`t she get money from Tiger Woods for keeping her mouth shut?
COHEN: I think she did initially, well she needs more so - it`s a new year.
BEHAR: And goody goody for her.
ESPINOZA: It`s a way to reinvent herself. It is better to be known as drug addicted, perhaps, than what she`s currently known for. I mean I - -
SHOEMAKER: Why don`t you develop a show on Bravo about all this, just call it "The Real (EXPLICATIVE DELETED) of the United States.
(LAUGHTER)
COHEN: I don`t want to watch that show.
SHOEMAKER: You wouldn`t want to watch that show?
COHEN: No, I don`t.
SHOEMAKER: Tiger Woods` mistresses could be first four seasons.
BEHAR: He only airs the housewives who only pretending to be (EXPLICATIVE DELETED), right?
(LAUGHTER)
COHEN: What are you doing to me? What are you doing to me?
BEHAR: Look, it`s a joke. Let`s go to Kathy Griffin OK?
COHEN: Another Bravo superstar.
BEHAR: These are jokes. We`re comedians.
COHEN: I know -
BEHAR: She`s under fire right now for some politicians after making a risque comment about the daughters of Massachusetts Senator Scott Brown. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHY GRIFFIN, COMEDIAN: Scott Brown, who is a senator from Massachusetts and has two daughters that are prostitutes.
And now, a brief message from Bravo`s legal team. Scott Brown`s daughters are not prostitutes. We now return you to our regularly scheduled negativity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK now why did you put a disclaimer? You`re the --
COHEN: Because, look, it`s a sensitive topic. Clearly he`s reacted sensitively. He`s upset. It was a joke. And we wanted to reiterate that it is a joke and this was not a real accusation. She had John King and Dana Bash laughing at her joke.
BEHAR: Yes.
COHEN: And then we just reiterated it. Kathy went along with it obviously.
BEHAR: Yes.
COHEN: That was her voice. And it was very clear this was a joke that was being made. It`s a funny show.
SHOEMAKER: People are missing the joke was actually for him because, you know, prostitute is a verb as in he was prostituting his daughters.
BEHAR: What do you mean?
SHOEMAKER: His acceptance speech, right?
BEHAR: Because he said they`re available.
SHOEMAKER: Right.
BEHAR: In all fairness, he was making a joke. Does the GOP have no sense of humor whatsoever left?
SHOEMAKER: Only if it`s Rush Limbaugh, he can call Chelsea Clinton a dog when she was 12 years old.
BEHAR: I think that was McCain, that was John McCain I believe said that, right?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes, I believe so.
SHOEMAKER: Let`s Google that.
BEHAR: Anyway, I don`t know, maybe it wasn`t. They`ll tell me in my ear. Go ahead.
ESPINOZA: Well if you don`t know that Kathy Griffin is a comedian and this is a joke, where have you been? It is just kind of funny that they were to attack her because she`s so - obviously -- This is what she does and this is what people love for her to do.
SHOEMAKER: And by the way, they should thank Kathy Griffin because now they`re going to have huge careers from it. I Googled them immediately.
BEHAR: Well it`s a joke because they`re obviously nice girls and nobody thinks of them as prostitutes. So for her to say it she actually --
SHOEMAKER: The first picture that came up was the father posing with them in bikinis with clam shells --
BEHAR: Yes.
SHOEMAKER: Now I know, honest to god, first photo. He`s there -- and she`s got clam -- now, a whole new meaning to happy as a clam. Trust me.
BEHAR: That is true. They did pose in bikinis, but that still doesn`t make them prostitutes.
SHOEMAKER: It doesn`t but the idea he`s putting out, in the world of law of attraction, he`s not saying that one of them is a premed student, he didn`t say she`s a pre med student, he said, look at this, basically.
COHEN: The bottom line, it was a joke.
ESPINOZA: We get it.
BEHAR: And now they`re now finding out that both Rush and McCain referred to Chelsea as a dog, OK.
SHOEMAKER: Lovely.
BEHAR: And that little cutie little girl is getting married, I`m happy for her OK.
SHOEMAKER: And by the way, she was 12 years old at the time.
BEHAR: Right.
SHOEMAKER: And that`s something, also missing, these two daughters both above 18.
BEHAR: Well you know the question is: Are the kids off limits? And I say no, if they`re a certain age, they`re not.
SHOEMAKER: If they`re 18 or older.
BEHAR: If they are older and if you trot them out.
ESPINOZA: Exactly.
BEHAR: If you trot them out a la Bristol Palin, we`re going to make jokes about it.
ESPINOZA: Right.
BEHAR: You know that is story, OK, now this story isn`t over so be sure to watch this show Thursday night when Kathy stops by here to give her side of the story. Moving on.
SHOEMAKER: I love it.
BEHAR: OK moving on, Portland Police have closed the case on allegations that Al Gore sexually assaulted a masseuse in his hotel room in 2006 citing insufficient evidence. Oh, please, I knew that story was fake when she used the words Al Gore got excited. That`s impossible. I mean, right there you knew it was wrong. I mean --
ESPINOZA: She`s never met the man clearly.
BEHAR: No, she hadn`t.
SHOEMAKER: How about the alias that he checked in with.
BEHAR: Which was what?
SHOEMAKER: He checked in as Mr. Stone -
BEHAR: I know -
SHOEMAKER: Sounds like that`s his porn name or something.
BEHAR: That kind of fit him, didn`t it?
SHOEMAKER: Either that or Mr. Stiff, but that would be a whole other thing. With the massage or whatever took place.
BEHAR: Did you ever believe it?
COHEN: You know what? She lost me when she started talking about that he need a stomach massage. That he had a - stomach - that -- I was grossed out from that.
BEHAR: That just makes you want to go to the bathroom.
COHEN: It makes me not want to her about this story. And then apparently "The National Enquirer" refused to pay her for her story, which is a big tipoff that perhaps it`s not --
BEHAR: It`s not true.
COHEN: Not based on anything.
ESPINOZA: I would say though that she timed it perfectly. Because it came out right after he announced that he and Tipper were splitting.
COHEN: Yes.
ESPINOZA: And everyone wondered there must be more to the story. And she provided a reason why they might have split. But of course it doesn`t seem to take.
COHEN: Yes, that`s true.
BEHAR: Some people thought it was a plot by the Right wing to discredit his whole thing on global warming to make the guy look bad. Do you think there is any validity or am I just conspiracy theorist?
SHOEMAKER: There could be something to it. She waited four years. And she`s really unattractive, by the way. Which seems to be the case with --
BEHAR: Well, it`s dark in the room. Hello.
COHEN: Well Paula Jones, Paula Jones.
(LAUGHTER)
SHOEMAKER: We could go down -
BEHAR: You know what? Now you`re bothering the women, OK. Don`t go there.
SHOEMAKER: Don`t go there?
BEHAR: Don`t go there.
SHOEMAKER: I was going to make fun of the men. It was always like these white men that that`s what they get. Look at Tiger Woods` list. They`re all posing in "Playboy." You know, John Edwards` ex, you know, the mistress on all that, they`re not posing for anything.
BEHAR: What are you talking about, Rielle Hunter posed -
SHOEMAKER: I`m a comedian, I`m trying to clear it up.
BEHAR: I know but Rielle Hunter, John Edwards` girlfriend, she posed half naked with pajamas with a bunch of puppets. How weird is that?
SHOEMAKER: She need props.
BEHAR: All right. How about these Russian spies now? Let`s talk about that. Deported Russian spy Anna Chapman is now looking for her own pay day. She`s reportedly shopping her story for $250,000 and she wants it in small unmarked bills and no cops.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Now, everyone loves a good spy story. OK, but isn`t $250,000 kind of a low asking price Andy?
COHEN: Well, she`s not allowed to actually get money, first of all.
BEHAR: Right.
COHEN: I mean, she signed something saying she`s not allowed to profit off of her story. So she can`t sell it. She can`t do a book deal. So I don`t know how this money is going to be funneled. But yes, 250,000 - I mean -- what`s her name? Ashley Dupree is making more on "CELEBRITY REHAB." not Ashley Dupree.
BEHAR: No.
ESPINOZA: Rachel Uchitel.
BEHAR: Rachel Uchitel.
COHEN: Rachel Uchitel, I`m getting them mixed up.
BEHAR: Oh yes, you better be careful with that little mix-up because Miss Uchitel does not like anything that indicates that she gets paid for anything.
COHEN: Right, yes.
ESPINOZA: Or that she`s that kind of woman.
COHEN: I apologize to Miss Uchitel.
BEHAR: Thank you very much.
SHOEMAKER: Is that a tax consideration? Isn`t that the cutoff point that Obama gave us?
BEHAR: What?
SHOEMAKER: Two hundred fifty thousand dollars.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That`s right.
SHOEMAKER: She`s probably very smart.
BEHAR: She`s no fool.
SHOEMAKER: I`m no fool. I don`t want to be one of those corporate people that gets taxed.
BEHAR: I love that she`s upset she lost her income and her real estate business. This chick should be glad she`s not going to the -- Lindsay Lohan`s on the way to jail and this one`s on her way to Russia. Well, maybe they`re the same, I don`t know. That could be but she could see Sarah Palin`s house from where she lives.
SHOEMAKER: From the Gulag.
COHEN: She should go on "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE."
BEHAR: Who this Russian?
COHEN: Yes.
ESPINOZA: She`s clearly very savvy.
BEHAR: OK she also may pose for "Playboy."
COHEN: That would be great too.
BEHAR: And a porn company Vivid Entertainment is interested in her. Why are Russian spies so sexy. She`s a sexy little thing isn`t she, why? Yes.
SHOEMAKER: She`s gorgeous. Ever since I used to fantasize over Natasha, the cartoon, Boris and Natasha.
BEHAR: What you lonely? You were lonely.
SHOEMAKER: I`m 8 years old. What else do you have? Judy Jetson.
BEHAR: All right thank you guys very much and you can catch Andy on "WATCH WHAT HAPPENS LIVE" tonight at 11:00 on Bravo and Craig Shoemaker is performing at my old club, Bananas in Poughkeepsie this Friday and Saturday. Up next, you remember him as Oil Man J.R. Ewing - I`m still stuttering. In real life Larry Hagman has ditched oil for solar power, he`ll tell you about it in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY HAGMAN, ACTOR: In the past, it was always about the oil. The oil was flowing and so was money. Too dirty. I quit years ago. But I`m still with the energy business. There is always a better alternative. Shine, baby, shine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That demonic laugh. That was actor Larry Hagman who played an oil tycoon in Dallas, the show "DALLAS." but in real life he`s a solar energy advocate. He joins me now from his beautiful sun roof, sun powered home high in the mountains east of Santa Barbara, California. Hello, Larry, how are you?
HAGMAN: I`m well, darling. How are you?
BEHAR: Oh I`m good. Do you think that J.R. Ewing would have handled the spill better than BP?
HAGMAN: I don`t know. If he could have made money out of it, he would, yes.
BEHAR: Exactly. Exactly. A lot of people are saying that we`ll never have solar energy because you can`t make money on solar energy. What do you think about that?
HAGMAN: I`m making money off solar energy. I produce more than I use, and so they pay me for it, or they`re supposed to anyhow.
BEHAR: Well as a spokesperson, yes. But your utility bills went from $37,000 a year to $13. In this house, I presume, right?
HAGMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: OK but it cost you -
HAGMAN: Yes, the house and the wells.
BEHAR: The whole area.
HAGMAN: It cost me $750,000. But by law in California, the Edison Company had to pay me 310 of that, so it was for 40,000.
BEHAR: Oh I see.
HAGMAN: And I`ll pay that off in about five more year, then I`ll have -- for 25 years I`ll have free electricity.
BEHAR: Oh I realize that you`re planning to be around a long time, Larry. That`s good. But most people don`t have that kind of --
HAGMAN: Yes, I`ll be 116 years old. Well, I understand that. But now you can get a lot -- in California, New Jersey, a lot of states, you can get a tax benefit and you can borrow money at very low interest rates, if you can borrow it, of course.
BEHAR: Yes.
HAGMAN: And it will pay off in about six or seven years. But it`s well worth it, I think.
BEHAR: But you know Ralph Nader said the use of solar energy has not been opened up abuse the oil industry does not own the sun. Do you agree with that?
HAGMAN: Well, if the United States government would give us the same tax breaks and backing that they do with the coal and the oil industry, we could maybe be on a level playing field. But until that happens -- just have to pay for it.
BEHAR: I know but the oil industry is never going to make any money on solar power. They`re the ones who really lobby and they have a lot of power. Right now it`s not happening so fast because of that, right?
HAGMAN: Well, we just have to take the power away from them. We`ll get people from the government, kick out the old people in the government who are under their thumb and get new people in.
BEHAR: Uh huh. You know, let`s talk about your house. Nine bedrooms, 13 bathrooms. Who is using all those bathrooms and who is cleaning them? Jesus. A helipad, an indoor pool. It`s for sale. How much?
HAGMAN: I think -- $10 million would pick it up pretty good.
BEHAR: OK. Very good. What are the taxes?
HAGMAN: I have no idea.
BEHAR: All right. Tell me something, I know that you have a new liver, Larry. How is it doing? How is your new liver?
HAGMAN: Well, it`s 50 -- this August it will be 15 years old. No the liver, but my transplant. And it`s doing very well, thank God.
BEHAR: That`s good. I mean before your transplant, you drank four to five bottles of champagne every day. You must have had a lot to celebrate in those days?
HAGMAN: I did, I did. I was working.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Do you miss working now? Do you miss it?
HAGMAN: What do you call this?
BEHAR: I don`t know. I mean, it`s beautiful there. But you know, does it get boring just looking at nature all day long?
HAGMAN: Yes, you want to buy a house?
BEHAR: No, see, I personally would be suicidal if I lived there, but that`s me. I have to see cement or I`m not happy. But you know, a lot people I think would like it.
HAGMAN: It`s wonderful.
BEHAR: Now let me talk pop culture with you. Now a lot of people are blaming alcohol for Mel Gibson`s past behavior. Have you been watching and listening to some of the rants that he`s been doing?
HAGMAN: No, I don`t watch --
BEHAR: You haven`t?
HAGMAN: What did he do this time? Poor guy. He`s got a problem, that`s for sure. I don`t know what his problem is.
BEHAR: You see what happens, Larry, you`re living in this area over there and you don`t know what`s going on. I love it.
HAGMAN: The name of this ranch is called Heaven and it`s the closest I`m ever going to get.
BEHAR: I see, well suffice it to say that he was out of control, ranting and raving against his girlfriend in an extremely abusive way. And people are saying sometimes it`s caused by drinking, this type of behavior. And since you used to be an alcoholic, I presume, I was thinking if you have anything to add to that? Do you regret anything that you did when you were drinking, for example?
HAGMAN: No, no. I never hurt anybody`s feelings that I know of. No. The guy`s just out of control. Listen, it happens to a lot of people. You know, he`s got a problem. That`s all. He ought to face it and do something about it.
BEHAR: No.
HAGMAN: Stop drinking if that`s his problem. You know? But he`s a wonderful actor, great director. So -- he`s got a problem.
BEHAR: He might have shot himself in the foot this time. So we`ll send you the tapes. Hold on a second, Larry. We`ll be right back after this break.
(LAUGHTER)
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Hello, hello? Stay with us friends, we are speaking justice.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with actor Larry Hagman. Larry, I have some questions from the Twitter people, the people who Tweet. Are you familiar with Twittering?
HAGMAN: I know about it. I`ve never done it myself but I`m sure it`s fascinating.
BEHAR: You should try it up there. It keeps you in touch a little bit. You know?
HAGMAN: Yes, yes. Well you know --
BEHAR: So people want to know, did you have a crush on Jeannie?
(LAUGHTER)
HAGMAN: You mean Barbara Eden?
BEHAR: Well, yes.
HAGMAN: Well, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. Well, Jeannie never showed her belly button, but did you get to see it at all? These are the questions that people are dying to have answers to.
HAGMAN: Let me give you the answers to the three most frequently asked questions. One Barbara Eden is as beautiful off screen as she is on. Two, she does have a navel and, three, no, we didn`t do it.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK, do you regret that?
HAGMAN: I suppose I do, but I`m so old now I regret a lot of things.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: What is your biggest regret, Larry?
HAGMAN: Oh, gosh. I don`t know really. I`m kind of risk-free. I`m a good guy. I don`t have any regrets. I had a lot of fun in my life.
BEHAR: People say you only regret the things that you didn`t do. Is there anything that you didn`t do that you would have liked to have done?
HAGMAN: God, I can`t think of a thing I didn`t do.
BEHAR: You`ve done it all?
BEHAR: Yes.
BEHAR: For example, I read that David Crosby from Crosby, Stills and Nash turned you on to LSD. What was that like? Tell me a little about that.
HAGMAN: Oh how much time we got?
BEHAR: About a minute. But you can do a lot in minute.
HAGMAN: A minute?
BEHAR: Yes.
HAGMAN: OK. It took the fear of death away.
BEHAR: Really? That`s a great answer.
HAGMAN: That`s a big one, yes.
BEHAR: That`s a great answer. That`s a great answer. But did it hold?
HAGMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: Do you have to keep taking it to not be scared -- no, did it hold?
HAGMAN: Oh, did it hurt?
BEHAR: No did the lack of fear - the losing the fear of death -
HAGMAN: Oh yes, oh yes, oh, sure, absolutely. Once you lost the fear of death, it doesn`t matter.
BEHAR: What happened to you? How did that manifest?
HAGMAN: Oh, my dear. Have you heard of the white light? Have you ever heard of that?
BEHAR: Only when I`m going into Jersey.
(LAUGHTER)
HAGMAN: Well I went into this place that was the white light where everything`s OK.
BEHAR: Well, that is -- I think that`s -- yes.
HAGMAN: And I think it ought to be mandatory that all our politicians should do it at least once.
BEHAR: Now, that`s a good suggestion. You know, I remember reading that Cary Grant went on an acid trip in the old days. A lot of Hollywood people seem to like LSD.
HAGMAN: Yes. And college students and high school students and doctors and lawyers and dentists and, yes.
BEHAR: College students, they`re not taking it because they`re afraid of death. They`re just afraid of the SATs -
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Anyway, it was such a pleasure to see you and talk to you. Thanks so much, Larry. And good luck with your new job really.
HAGMAN: Well just -
BEHAR: Go ahead.
HAGMAN: Well listen, remember, shine, baby, shine. That`s always going to be delivering energy for us.
BEHAR: OK.
HAGMAN: The solar is the way to get it.
BEHAR: OK we`ll remember that. And for more information on solar power go to solarworld-usa.com. Good night, everybody.
END
