Return to Transcripts main page
Joy Behar Page
Lindsay Lohan Off to Jail; The Unpredictable Andy Dick; Joran and Sex Slave Probe
Aired July 20, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight, Lindsay Lohan showed up to serve her time in jail today. I loved it when one of the reporters asked, who are you wearing?
Then on the latest tape released today, Mel Gibson continues to rant and rave like a madman. I`m no critic, you know, but I think this is his most believable work ever.
And you know, when I think of Andy Dick -- ok, I hardly ever think of Andy Dick. But I read about him in the paper, usually until the police blotter. Anyway, he`ll be here tonight. That and more right now.
Lindsay Lohan was carted off to jail today with all the trimmings. Hell, they even gave her a police escort. Her appearance before the judge was short. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here for surrender. The court has already indicated the sentence. And unless there`s anything else, I`m going to order her be remanded at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here to talk about Lindsay`s legal drama, Mark Geragos, defense attorney; Maria Menounos, special correspondent for "Access: Hollywood"; and Howard Samuels, founder and CEO of The Hills Treatment Center.
Mark, let me start with you. Were there any surprises about how this went down today, Mark?
MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Only that Shaun was still her lawyer. I think there was so much speculation about whether Shaun would be there today or not, or whether Shapiro is going to represent her. Other than that, no, I don`t think there were any surprises.
BEHAR: Ok, there was no appeal filed at all. So, that didn`t happen. They had predicted that possibly.
GERAGOS: Right. They could have.
Yes. Because it`s a misdemeanor case, if she had filed a notice of appeal, she would have been entitled to bail and she could have fought it.
I think at this point, she`s resigned herself to it, obviously. Although the one thing that was, to some degree, surprising, although, I guess not when you consider the fact that there`s media focus on it is that the judge said no electronic monitoring, no early work release. Anybody else who got 90 days on a probation violation on a misdemeanor offense would have gone in the front door of the jail and out the back door. So to that extent, it was a little surprising.
BEHAR: Oh, well. So she was sentenced to 90 days in jail. How much do you think she`ll serve? All of it?
GERAGOS: She`ll do about 22 days in jail. If she was not Lindsay Lohan, she`d do about 22 hours at most.
BEHAR: So what good is it? Everybody`s saying that this is going to help her kick all of her addictions and everything, but she`ll be out -- at least 28 days, right?
GERAGOS: Right. And it makes absolutely no sense for anybody who has been around addicts or people who have got addiction problems. Jail, while it`s a wake-up call, I suppose, whether it`s one day or 90, it doesn`t really solve any of the problems. She needs to go into -- if she`s got a problem, she goes detox, then she goes -- transitions into a rehab center, and then lastly you go to a sober living facility.
The jail has never been a solution to an addiction problem, if she has one. Then the other question is, why is it that just using alcohol is a violation of her probation? I mean, remember what she was convicted of originally, was driving under the influence. She hasn`t been alleged to have driven again as a violation of her probation. It`s because she didn`t go to a program or she set off the scram bracelet, meaning she`d had something to drink. It just seems like an awfully draconian way to handle it.
BEHAR: Well, she didn`t show up for her court appearances. Isn`t that one of the problems?
GERAGOS: She was late, but in California, you have the ability to have your lawyer appear for you, even post conviction, although some judges insist that you`re there. So you`re late. I mean, who`s going to give you 90 days?
We`ve got a problem here in California. We`ve got 45,000 more prisoners in our prison system and probably 20,000 more than we should have or that belong there. So warehousing her hardly, you know -- I`m not going to go to bed tonight feeling safe because Lindsay Lohan is at the Lynnwood Facility (ph).
BEHAR: Exactly. Maria, there were no crocodile tears or special manicures in court today. It looks like she`s really taking this seriously finally, right?
MARIA MENOUNOS, "ACCESS: HOLLYWOOD": Well, I mean, there was definitely no drama. And of course, as we showed, the judge appreciated the manicure being not there this time. But she was late again. I found that surprising and, of course, not surprising when you think of Lindsay Lohan and her track record. But she was eight minutes late.
And I think it`s interesting because the judge said no work release programs and all of that. And she ordered her to go to rehab 24 hours after her release. I think that secretly behind closed doors this judge is trying to make this as stringent as possible on Lindsay and may even be having conversations with the sheriff to keep her in there longer. I don`t know if that`s possible but --
BEHAR: Let`s look at her mug shot from when she entered jail today. She looks a little like she`s giving a little smirk. What do you think?
MENOUNOS: I think so, too. She actually looks pretty good in there. In court she was definitely nervous. She kept her composure but you could see she was nervous. And in that picture, I happen to agree with you.
BEHAR: Well, so does Mark Geragos agrees that she shouldn`t even be there. She probably agrees with you, Mark.
GERAGOS: Well, you know -- I don`t know what the protocol is for your booking photo, but I would smirk a little bit if I were her. She`s being hammered more than anybody else would who is similarly situated.
Yes, the judge is sending a message to the sheriff, no early release. They don`t want to have another Paris Hilton situation where the sheriff gets dragged back in or they drag her back in because she went out the back door. And you know, you just don`t see this in other cases that are similar to this. The celebrity penalty --
MENOUNOS: But who has an expletive on her nails at the judge? I mean she had an expletive written on her special finger.
BEHAR: That was provocative.
GERAGOS: There`s been judges I`ve wanted to do the exact same thing to. I don`t know --
BEHAR: Let me --
GERAGOS: -- you do have a first amendment right to do that, you know.
BEHAR: Right. The freedom to put anything you want on your nails. Howard --
GERAGOS: Except bong hits for Jesus.
BEHAR: Howard, Lindsay`s latest lawyer, Robert Shapiro, now he stepped down yesterday because he was unhappy with her behavior reportedly at the sober living facility. Was being there really doing her any good? I mean their rules seem very lax. Late night visitors and antics; she acted like she ran the place.
What do they expect them to do if they have such lax rules?
HOWARD SAMUELS, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Well, first of all, Joy, it`s a sober living house. And I know the people that run Robert`s house. It`s a very good house run by very good people.
But I`m very happy about what happened today with Lindsay. I mean, it`s very important for people to have an understanding. You know, this isn`t entitlement and arrogance.
Alcoholics, that`s where they come from; and they always have to do it their way. They`re always disrespectful. It`s always sort of like an FU -- I mean, it`s the whole ball game.
What has to happen here, there has to be limits and boundaries -- and you`re right, jail isn`t going to get her sober. But I`m hoping that the pain and the realization of her having to go to jail and her being so out of control and disrespectful is going to send a message that she can`t keep on doing it her way.
BEHAR: Right because she`s only going to end up back in the slammer.
SAMUELS: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Right? So that should prevent her from this bad behavior from now on if she sort of gets a dose of jail.
She actually tweeted, though, a lighthearted message about her impending jail sentence last night. She wrote, "The only bookings that I`m familiar with are Disney films. Never thought that I`d be booking into jail -- eeks."
She`s being funny or she`s in denial? What`s going on there, Howard?
SAMUELS: Well, you know, look, I`m a convicted felon. Ok?
BEHAR: You are? What did you do?
SAMUELS: Yes. I was arrested many years ago -- I`m 25 years clean and sober -- I was arrested for heroin and cocaine in 1971 in New York. Now, the judge gave me a choice. Four years in prison or a year in rehab.
Now, I must tell you that was very sobering for me. So the fact that I had to go to rehab for a year instead of prison got me sober and it was one of the interventions that was used on me to get me sober. That`s why I`m very happy when the courts and the police and the judges come down hard on people like myself because if that is what is needed.
Now, I certainly had an attitude problem, I certainly would have smirked. I certainly would have smirked in my picture, my mug shot. Of course, that goes with the whole ball game of arrogance and entitlement and anger. Ok? So that is what`s happening here. Now, is this going to get her sober? Only time`s going to tell.
BEHAR: But I mean you had a year. You`re talking about a year. She`s only going to do 22 days according to Mark.
(CROSS TALKING)
SAMUELS: Right, but that`s what I`m saying.
BEHAR: Right it`s rehab. So why didn`t they give her that option, a year in rehab?
SAMUELS: Well, they should have. Right. They should have.
GERAGOS: Right. If she`d been anybody else, she would have had that option.
SAMUELS: Right.
(CROSS TALKING)
GERAGOS: If she had been anybody else, they would have given her the option. Most of these rehabs that you put people into whether it`s 30, 60, 90 days that we call drive-through rehabs, they don`t really stick. You have to take somebody apart, put them back together again. That`s what the whole idea is and it`s a long process.
The idea of forcing her into it -- one of the things that`s so meddlesome about all of this, is that ultimately at the end of the day, if she wants to drink it`s still legal. Here in California, if she had been smoking pot and had tested dirty, you couldn`t send her to jail. But if you test dirty with alcohol, you can. There`s something just inherently, fundamentally wrong about that.
BEHAR: Maria, how tough is it going to be for her in jail, do you think?
MENOUNOS: Well, I`ll tell you, I interviewed her dad, Michael, and he said that it will have an adverse effect on her and that she`s going to go nuts.
And I think that this is, actually, in my opinion -- and I mean, what do I know? I think that she has had no structure her entire adult life. She`s done whatever she wanted. And now she`s not going to be able to. She has no choice.
In a rehab facility, I feel like she could manipulate people and she could have her way with people. And I`ve heard that happen before.
In jail, she is going to be stuck for 23 hours in a cell. There`s no Blackberries --
BEHAR: All alone -- all by herself.
MENOUNOS: -- there are no visitors. She`s not even allowed to have visitors at this time. I mean, it`s going to be a complete shock to her system. And I think that she needs that time. She needs to be away from all the enablers, all the bad party friends. Just everybody in general, because inside of her there is actually a really smart girl and a really talented girl as well.
BEHAR: I hope --
MENOUNOS: And I think that if she has time to reflect, I really feel like that`s going to be her best time and then going into rehab after that is only going to help her even more because at that point, she`ll be ready for rehab. She`ll want it.
BEHAR: I really hope it doesn`t break the girl. She`s a sad little girl, in my opinion.
GERAGOS: And no but see -- but see Joy --
BEHAR: Twenty-two hours a day alone in a cell? That`s -- that`s harsh.
SAMUELS: But Joy she -- but see, I have to agree with that. I mean, she needs that. She needs the -- the slap in the face. She needs to have a breakdown. She needs to have --
BEHAR: Tough love, Mark you don`t agree with do you?
GERAGOS: I feel -- I feel that --
BEHAR: Mark does not agree with this?
GERAGOS: I can`t tell you -- well, it`s like Nanny Justice. You`ve heard of the Nanny state. I -- this is somebody who has got, apparently, an alcohol problem and everybody wants to warehouse her. I just don`t get it.
BEHAR: Ok all right, thank you very much, you guys.
Up next, I`ll speak to comedian and actor Andy Dick about stars and their struggles with sobriety and the law.
Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Andy Dick has been called outrageous, unpredictable and on a few occasions he`s even been called before a judge. And he`s here with me tonight. Andy thanks for coming on.
ANDY DICK, COMEDIAN: You`re welcome.
BEHAR: You know, you remind me a lot of Lindsay Lohan in a certain way because you`re both talented kids -- well, I don`t know if --
A. DICK: Because we`re both hot?
BEHAR: -- because you`re both hot.
A. DICK: Because we`re both hot as hell.
BEHAR: You`re both blond. You`re both talented. But in a certain way your work has been completely overshadowed by your personal problems like her.
So --
A. DICK: Yes, that is true. That is true.
BEHAR: Not good, right? Is it good or not good?
A. DICK: Well, obviously, it`s not good.
BEHAR: Well, it`s not good for you. But it kind of keeps your name in the middle of everything. So maybe --
A. DICK: You know what? See this mustache and beard?
BEHAR: Yes.
A. DICK: It`s for a -- it`s for a movie that I just shot, I`m doing reshoots on.
BEHAR: Really?
A. DICK: I`m still working. That`s my point. I`m still --
BEHAR: You are -- you are still working.
A. DICK: I`m still (EXPLETIVE DELETED) working, Joy.
BEHAR: Yes.
A. DICK: So --
BEHAR: Well, we`re very happy for you.
But what do you make of this sentencing that Lindsay got? Will jail help her or does she need rehab? She`s going to jail.
A. DICK: Well, I went to rehab ten times, Joy.
BEHAR: You did.
A. DICK: Ten times. Ten times. I`m in the double digits of rehab. It`s a -- jail, I`ve been to jail. I`ve had the ankle bracelet. I had it for a year, Joy.
BEHAR: Yes.
A. DICK: A year. I had it on for a year. I couldn`t drink for a year. That`s why she`s going to jail.
BEHAR: Doesn`t it rust?
A. DICK: She had it on -- she had it on and she drank. If you`ve got that thing on, don`t drink.
BEHAR: Right.
A. DICK: It`s that simple.
BEHAR: So what did you do? Did you drink when you had it on?
A. DICK: No. That`s why I`m right here and talking to you. Am I in jail?
BEHAR: No, you`re not in jail. No. What would you say to her? What`s your advice for Lindsay?
A. DICK: I -- you know what? Literally, she -- God I remember when - - when I was in rehab for maybe the sixth time. I remember Robert Downey Jr. was in there with me. And he said --
BEHAR: So you`re -- yes --
A. DICK: -- yes, he was in there with me. And he said don`t let them -- just whatever they say, don`t let them tell you what to do. And that`s my advice to her.
BEHAR: And did you -- so that`s -- so -- well, she`s going to be all by herself.
A. DICK: Well, then by the way, then he jumped the fence and went off and smoked crack, but --
BEHAR: Well, you know -- you know, jail actually -- I don`t know if you can say cured him. But it did -- he`s out of jail. Once he went into jail, he came out and he`s been clean and sober.
So maybe it worked for Robert --
A. DICK: Are you trying to -- are you trying to send me to jail, Joy?
BEHAR: I`m just saying that in his case it worked.
A. DICK: No, I`ve been there. And I --
BEHAR: No?
A. DICK: I can`t go back there.
BEHAR: All right, but let`s -- let`s talk about some of your other efforts to say so. You did AA; Chris Farley was your sponsor. What was that like?
A. DICK: Chris Farley took me to my first AA meeting.
BEHAR: And?
A. DICK: He stood up, he shared. He had a -- he literally had a tie like this. Well, you know how he -- overstuffed shirt and he talked well, "I got Andy Dick here." I don`t know. It didn`t -- I -- I recently found the AA book that he gave me that said, "Andy, I hope this helps you the way it helped me."
BEHAR: Oh. Well, he`s dead.
A. DICK: That`s my point.
BEHAR: Yes. A point is taken, my dear. Now --
A. DICK: Yes.
BEHAR: It didn`t really help him much.
Do you think -- let`s talk about Mel Gibson for a second. A lot of people are saying that it`s all for alcohol related, all this ranting and carrying on. Do you buy that?
A. DICK: Oh, really? They`re saying Mel Gibson`s rants are alcohol- related. Yes, you know what? That would make sense. That would make sense.
BEHAR: Really? But you know why are we --
A. DICK: My son just said -- it`s some of the best work he`s ever done.
BEHAR: Yes right, the kid is sitting there, your son is sitting there?
A. DICK: Yes, come here.
BEHAR: Have him sit on your lap.
A. DICK: Yes.
BEHAR: Let`s see him.
A. DICK: No, he`s not going to sit on my lap. He`s not five years old. He`s 22 years old. But listen --
BEHAR: Hi. What`s your name?
A. DICK: What`s your name?
LUCAS DICK, ANDY DICK`S SON: Lucas.
A. DICK: Can you hear her?
BEHAR: Lucas.
A. DICK: Lucas.
BEHAR: Oh very cute, Lucas.
L. LUCAS: Yes.
BEHAR: What kind of a father is Andy?
L. LUCAS: Supportive.
BEHAR: Supportive. Ok. I heard you wrote a song about Lindsay with your son. Tell me about that?
A. DICK: Yes, and it`s right over here. You can go now.
This is a song we wrote for Lindsay. It`s about her ankle bracelet. She had an alcohol monitoring --
I can`t drink in the city of Riverside -- come to think of it ladies I can`t drink anywhere legally. Lord knows I`ve tried. Keeping an N-word down. (INAUDIBLE) tethered to the ground. Yes, I is.
BEHAR: Thanks, Andy, I guess. Check out the full version of the song on CNN.com/joy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Joran Van Der Sloot is sitting in a Peruvian prison on murder charges. Now officials in Thailand are investigating his alleged involvement in a Thai sex slave gang.
Here now to discuss this development is Harold Copus, a former FBI special agent, who has investigated Van Der Sloot in the Natalee Holloway disappearance. Explain to me why the Thai police are investigating Van Der Sloot, sir.
HAROLD COPUS, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: I`m sorry. Say that again.
BEHAR: Why is the Thai police investigating Van Der Sloot?
COPUS: Well, you know, it comes back to a couple of years ago that there was a tape that had been produced where he was showing that he was trying to recruit women and take them to Holland for prostitution. This started -- it never went anyplace.
And the reason for that, quite frankly, is that Thailand smuggling women out for prostitution is sort of like going to a convenience store here and buying a soft drink. It`s not a big deal to them.
Only now that Peru`s got involved, and I suspect that Van Der Sloot is doing anything to save his hide right now, that`s probably pushed the Thai national police to work this case.
BEHAR: Why? How does that help him?
COPUS: Well, I think what happens is that pressure is now mounting. Van Der Sloot has been a guy that`s been slippery for years.
BEHAR: Right.
COPUS: For about four or five years. You couldn`t tag anything on him. He`s like teflon. So I think what happened is that all of a sudden now the notoriety of what he did in Aruba, what happened down in Peru, the word that`s out about at least one missing girl in Thailand, maybe two, that now we need to take a look at this and really look at the dark side of Van Der Sloot.
BEHAR: He allegedly was the middleman and recruited the women, right? And do the police know his accomplices?
COPUS: You know, I don`t know. I don`t think anybody`s talking right now and I certainly don`t think they will throw that out. But yes, I would say he`s the middleman. I would say that typically, they make five to ten grand per girl.
BEHAR: Is there any connection to his alleged involvement in this sex trade gang and the disappearance of Natalee Holloway?
COPUS: You know, there is a slight connection. When I was working on that matter, on a scale of 1 to 100, I would say 95 percent chance that Natalee Holloway died right there on the beaches in Aruba and her body was disposed of. You couldn`t make it 100 percent.
BEHAR: Right.
COPUS: So the 5 percent was the sex trade allegation, which was well known in that country that this went on. And Van Der Sloot later said on a Fox News interview that he had actually sold Natalee for ten grand or something around that amount.
You can`t trust the guy. You can`t believe that his mouth is moving, it means he`s probably lying. But it does add a little credence to the story.
BEHAR: Doesn`t it, though? Is it possible, if that`s true, that Natalee is alive?
COPUS: Well, enough time has passed now, that the chances of her still being alive would be almost nothing. I`ve always said if that were my daughter, would I rather have her dead there in Aruba or in the sex business? And quite frankly, I probably would say I`d rather have her on the beach there in Aruba than to think she would have been sold as a sex slave.
BEHAR: That`s a terrible story. Thanks very much, Harold. Thank you for joining us.
COPUS: Thank you.
BEHAR: Up next, RadarOnline releases another explosive rant they claim is, you know who, Mel Gibson. I`ll have the details, then we`ll discuss whether Mel`s gold-digger smear campaign against Oksana is working.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The sixth installment of the Mel Gibson is crazy audio series was released today by radar online. And I must say, stunning. I laughed, I cried. It was better than "Cats." listen to this conversation Mel is allegedly having with Oksana Grigorieva.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OKSANA GRIGORIEVA: You cannot raise this child with these symptoms.
MEL GIBSON: What?
GRIGORIEVA: You`re acting as a crazy man right now. And you have been for many, many months.
GIBSON: What do you mean?
GRIGORIEVA: And you hit me and you hit her. While she was in my hands.
(CROSSTALK)
GRIGORIEVA: Mel, you`re losing your mind. You need medication.
GIBSON: You need a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kick in the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) for being a gold digging (EXPLETIVE DELETED) with a (EXPLETIVE DELETED). And I want my child and no one will believe you. To (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you. And I`m not giving you my house and you can rot unless you crawl back, suck my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and say you`re sorry. In that order. Do you understand me? You (EXPLETIVE DELETED) offend my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) maleness, my masculinity, my being, my soul. And you call me a sinner. You`re a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) moving violation. If you get raped, it`s your fault for showing off your fake (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
BEHAR: Testy, testy. Now, radar online is reporting Oksana told authorities that Gibson threatened to kill her, their daughter and himself in a murder/suicide. With me now is David Perel, executive vice president and creator of radar online. David, OK, you`re reporting now that Gibson threatened to kill her, their daughter and then himself. Where did you get that information, may I ask?
DAVID PEREL, RADARONLINE.COM: Well, Joy, as you can see by the fact that we`ve obtained those tapes, we`re pretty deep into this investigation. So there`s a lot of evidence out there. And what we know is what Oksana has told the police and what she`s told DCFs and what she has told the court. Because there`s all these investigations going on. And the scene that she describes January six when Mel allegedly hit her is really, really horrific.
BEHAR: OK so you`re getting it from Oksana herself?
PEREL: No, I`m not saying where we`re getting it from. What I`m telling you is there`s three separate investigations and these are her charges. This is what Mel is defending himself against.
BEHAR: All right but you say that the story has a lot of supporting evidence. I mean, what exact evidence are we talking about?
PEREL: Well it`s interesting because it`s not really a he said she said because of the way the events unfolded. She says on January six that he punched her in the mouth and then on the side of the head while she was holding the baby, causing her to fall back on the bed.
BEHAR: Right.
PEREL: At the same time, her 12-year-old son was in the room. So we know that her 12-year-old son has been interviewed by DCFs. He`s a witness to those events. She also has an affidavit from her dentist who talks about how damaged her teeth were and the amount of force it would take for that to happen.
BEHAR: But didn`t the dentist renege on that
PEREL: No, that was an erroneous report that was rescinded and retracted by the people who put it out.
BEHAR: Is there one more thing you wanted to say? So is he a credible witness, the boy.
PEREL: The kid is 12 years old. He`s a credible witness. Especially when all these things are taken together. The dentist is very strong. His affidavit, from what we understand, is very strong support for her story about being punched in the mouth.
BEHAR: Now.
PEREL: Also -- go ahead, I`m sorry.
BEHAR: I was going to just ask, radar says this latest tape could destroy Mel. Why do you say that? What`s the piece de resistance, what is it?
PEREL: Well the key point that everybody needs to look at is her allegation that she was holding the baby and the baby would have been 2 months old at this time when Mel punched her. And that the punch hit the baby. Now we know and we have a report on radar online that the baby has a bruise on her face, according to Oksana and Oksana took a photograph of that. So that injury was photographed and is also evidence of part of the case.
BEHAR: OK. Now, you`ve been reporting on this all week, and the tapes have been dribbling out all week. And we`ve been talking about it all week. Have you gotten any backlash from Mel Gibson`s side? Any people writing to the site or anything like that? We haven`t heard from his side at all.
PEREL: You know, we`ve talked to his side. We were the first ones to report that he said he didn`t hit her. We quoted his lawyer saying all of Oksana`s teeth are in her mouth. So we`ve given them ample opportunity to comment. And we`re looking for evidence on his side. Because he claims that she tried to extort him. So this is a case of just following the facts. And wherever they go, that`s where we`ll go with the story on radar online.
BEHAR: When were these tapes recorded? I mean how many conversations are we talking about here? Is it one long harangue or is it like every day for five days? What was it?
PEREL: Well it`s definitely -- recorded this year, they were recorded in February forward. It`s hard to say exactly how many conversations they are. We`ve run them on radar online completely unedited the way we obtained them. So it seems to me there are about three or four separate conversations. At one point they`re still together as a couple. At another point they clearly have broken up.
BEHAR: OK now you say that you haven`t edited them. But isn`t it possible that you received them in an edited version?
PEREL: Well what we know is this from having them examined. That`s Mel Gibson`s voice. And even Mel Gibson`s people aren`t denying that he said those words. When you hear the racist rant, that`s Mel Gibson. When you hear you bleeping deserved it after she says, you hit me. That`s Mel Gibson. When you hear that crazy rant that you just played, which was just al basically EXPLICATIVE DELETED, EXPLICATIVE DELETED. I could almost not hear any other words. That`s Mel Gibson. So nobody`s saying that that`s altered in any way, shape or form.
BEHAR: Right.
PEREL: So the tapes are genuine.
BEHAR: When you were releasing them, I`m curious, did you release them in chronological order. What order did you release these tapes we`ve been hearing dribs and drabs all week.
PEREL: We did in the release them in chronological order. We released the racist tape first, because we just thought that was the one that needed to come out. And then we tried to put them in order that made sense editorially.
BEHAR: OK is this the last of it? Is this the end?
PEREL: No, there`s more tapes, but there`s also more evidence.
BEHAR: Oh David.
PEREL: There`s some -- you`re going to see the whole case. You`re going to see the entire case. Both sides, what they`re charging and what evidence supports that. We`ve got some pretty interesting stuff coming up.
BEHAR: Thanks very much, id for the reporting. Thanks a lot.
PEREL: Thanks, Joy, thank you.
BEHAR: Now I want to talk to Mark Geragos, defense attorney, and Jim Moret, attorney and chief correspondent for "Inside Edition." Jim, Mel Gibson`s people haven`t exactly directly responded to these tapes, but it seems like they`re fighting back by putting out information that paints Oksana in a bad light. Am I right?
JIM ORET, "INSIDE EDITION": Yes, I think you are right. There`s no denial that this is Mel Gibson`s voice, Joy, but you`re right. They seem to be saying that she`s to blame. She set him up. And I think Oksana`s point of view is, you`re blaming the victim, because if in fact this is Mel Gibson saying these things, if in fact he hit her, you know, it doesn`t matter that she recorded him. Whether it`s admissible or not, these are horrific things to say and these actions, if true, would also be horrific.
BEHAR: Well they`re saying she`s trying to extort him and that she`s a gold digger, which, you know, really, who cares, if that`s true? In my opinion, his - his, you know, attack on her is so much bigger than whatever she was trying to do. His reaction is insane.
MORET: I agree with you. I think whether they`re admissible or not, I think the damage in public is done.
BEHAR: But you know a lot of people I talk to are blaming her a lot. I mean, women that I talk to. They are kind of like, oh, she`s a gold digger, you know these Russian women. I mean this is what I hear. Is it working? Is the tide turning against Oksana, Mark?
MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Actually, I have been hearing a lot of that.
BEHAR: Yes.
GERAGOS: And I`m not so sure that it isn`t a function of the tapes. If you listen to that tape, whoever the male is sounds crazed, but it sounds like she`s almost rehearsing or reading from a script. And it`s overlaid. So it`s kind of a peculiar tape when you listen to it, number one. And number two, when the dentist story came out, that tended to give ammunition to people who thought this was a setup. And there is a little pushback. Remember, this guy does have -- or did have at one point a great deal of good will and people are -
BEHAR: Really?
GERAGOS: Tend to give him a little bit of a break.
BEHAR: Not in the Jewish community, he didn`t have a great deal of good will.
GERAGOS: In the Armenian community he`s got a little bit of good will.
BEHAR: In the Armenian community.
GERAGOS: Yes in the Armenian community.
BEHAR: OK, that`s nice. But if you threaten to kill her and the baby, what does her character matter anyway? If she`s a gold digger, if she set him up.
GERAGOS: I don`t know that I`m necessarily saying it`s her character, but if the tapes are spliced and diced and if in fact he didn`t hit her, well, then, that is the definition of a setup. I think that`s what I hear people asking is, how do we know that she actually was hit, number one, and if all of this stuff was placed in front of the judge and the judge kept the status quo in terms of the custody, mind you, he`s in front of a judge who was if not the head, I think the assistant head of the D.A.`s domestic violence unit, a guy that I`ve known for a long time. If he thought for a minute that he had hit this child or her, I don`t think he would have kept the status quo.
BEHAR: All right you know what but even -
MORET: But Joy.
BEHAR: Yes, go ahead Jim.
MORET: But I think, though, in this latest tape, you do hear an exasperated Oksana. I think you also hear her say, look, I signed a piece of paper saying I own nothing. And there`s a report saying that she walked away from $15 million to keep these tapes quiet. So I think that there was the tide turning, but maybe it`s coming back because you`re saying, wait a second. She`s saying to Mel, you need help. I don`t want you around my child.
BEHAR: Right.
MORET: Her interest seems to be in protecting her child.
BEHAR: Exactly. Because on tape he allegedly says nobody will believe you. And he says, you deserved it, after she says he hit her. That to me, you know, are threats and also speaks to, Mark, it speaks to the point that nobody will believe you. Well, hello? Au contraire, I have these tapes now. She`s protecting herself and trying to get custody of the kid. Right?
GERAGOS: If the tapes are legitimate.
BEHAR: OK. Thanks very much guys.
Up next, more fallout from Kathy Griffin`s joke about Senator Scott Brown`s daughters, comedian, Margaret Cho will chime in on the controversy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: She has a new CD, a roll in the Lifetime series "DROP DEAD DIVA" and she`s getting ready to go on tour. I`m surprised she can fit me into her busy schedule, but I`m happy that she did. Here with me now is the very funny comedian Margaret Cho.
MARGARET CHO, COMEDIAN: Hi.
BEHAR: how are you?
CHO: I`m doing great.
BEHAR: Mom`s good.
CHO: She`s good. Well she`s mad because she`s visiting her friend. Her friend is dying of cancer, which is a big deal. But my mom also wants to go on vacation. But she can`t leave for vacation until her friend dies because that`s rude.
BEHAR: Oh, conflict.
CHO: So my mom is like, she`s taking forever. I`m going to die! If she doesn`t die soon. I want to go on vacation. She`s taking up all vacation. She`s taking up all of their vacation days.
BEHAR: Well doesn`t your mother have any more time later?
CHO: Yes. Well, they booked this cruise. They want to get out, they want to get on it. She and my dad, all they do is cruises, but they had to make a stop because she`s dying. Their friend`s dying.
BEHAR: Well, there you go. Now you know I want to do a couple of things in the news with you because you`re always good. What do you think of the Mel Gibson thing? Anything on that.
CHO: Well I think -- this is what I think he should do. He can`t do movies anymore because people are just -- every time he goes to publicize one, he has an eruption. He`s like a volcano.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHO: He has these eruptions. And so I think what he should do is he should open up a singing telegram business where he goes and chews people out at work. I`m going to burn down your house and happy birthday! You know that`s what I think --
BEHAR: That`s a good idea.
CHO: That`s a good idea. Singing telegrams. But it`s not singing. He sounds like a fire breathing dragon or something.
BEHAR: He does. But it`s a little hard to do that, burn down your house. Because he also wants you to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) him first.
CHO: Well yes, that`s the part I like. You don`t forget that part. That`s really crazy. First -- first (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
BEHAR: First that, then this.
CHO: He`s so crazy. But I love how calm she is.
BEHAR: Well she`s calm because she`s taping him and she knows what she`s doing. Everybody is saying oh, she`s setting him up. Yes, that was the point.
CHO: Well good for her. Because she probably had to endure that so many times and nobody was a witness to it. And finally, you know, now she`s got the world as a witness and that`s good.
BEHAR: Well as he said on the latest tape, he said, no one will believe you. And then, you know that she`s thinking, oh, yes, they will.
CHO: Oh, yes, they will. But what is weird is I feel a little left out because he hasn`t made a slur against Asian people.
BEHAR: I know.
CHO: I`m like, what the hell?
BEHAR: You feel neglected?
CHO: I feel like left out, like do we not exist? He hates everybody else.
BEHAR: No, I know, there`s a new show called "K-TOWN" billed as the Asian version of the "JERSEY SHORE." it`s just like that except the kids are good in math.
CHO: I love that, so they can count all the reps that they`re doing.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHO: I love it. I can`t wait to see this show. I really want this to happen.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHO: Because I think it would be great and really exciting. And I want to be on it.
BEHAR: Well should be on it.
CHO: I could be like the matriarch.
BEHAR: I mean let`s face it, you`re the only Korean star we know.
CHO: I could be like Barbara Bel Geddes on that show. You know what I mean?
BEHAR: Yes, that`s right the matriarch.
CHO: I could definitely see myself as the matriarch, kind of like the Alexis Carrington or whatever.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHO: But yes, silver fox.
BEHAR: But I mean, you know, the "JERSEY SHORE" stereo tape types Italians. Even though I must tell the audience again, they`re not Italian. A lot of them are not even Italian. But they just do the thing.
CHO: Yes I don`t even think about them as racial. I think of them as tan.
BEHAR: They`re tan, they`re very tan.
CHO: Yes.
BEHAR: Well you know, Snooki tweeted that she didn`t want to be taxed on her tanning bed. John McCain tweeted back, don`t worry, Snooki, we won`t tax your tanning bed. Those two are like tweeting to each other.
CHO: they`re following each other.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHO: That`s nice. That`s a nice combination.
BEHAR: Isn`t that adorable? She`s go see him in the old age home. She can take care of him then. But do you think it will stereotype Asians and do we care?
CHO: No, I mean we don`t -- I`ve never seen that group of people -- and it doesn`t really matter if there`s stereotypes because they don`t exist. It is better to have inclusion than worry about stereotypes.
BEHAR: What do you mean they don`t exist?
CHO: Well you know they don`t exist on television. I don`t really see that many Asian people. Every once in a while.
BEHAR: Yes that`s true. Why is that?
CHO: I don`t know. I don`t know. I don`t know what that is about.
BEHAR: Is it because Asians are a minority in the country and so the demographic is not there? They don`t spend enough money because they`re not big enough?
CHO: I don`t know if that`s true. I think a lot of it has to do with a culture that a lot of people don`t go into the arts because like -- when I wanted to be a comedian, I told my mom when I was 14. She said, oh, maybe it`s better if you just die. So that`s the general attitude.
BEHAR: So she was very supportive.
CHO: Well when you`re going in the arts, they don`t want you to go in the arts about they want you to play piano but not be real good. Like they don`t want you to be an artist but they want you to have artistic --
BEHAR: As a hobby.
CHO: Yes, as a hobby, there should be a limit. But for somebody like - well for like myself or what we wanted to do, we wanted to be comedians.
BEHAR: Well no one, they don`t believe that you`re ever really going to be successful at it because the odds are so high against you.
CHO: Right when you`re from an immigrant family.
BEHAR: Particularly an immigrant family, which I`m from, too.
CHO: Yes they get really worried about your future. And something that they don`t understand because they don`t see people like you out doing that.
BEHAR: Exactly.
CHO: They don`t know that it`s possible.
BEHAR: Well they do but they see men. They don`t really see women doing it, what we are trying to do.
CHO: Oh yes for sure, exactly.
BEHAR: Now what about, what`s her name, Lindsay?
CHO: Lindsay?
BEHAR: Yes.
CHO: Poor thing. Well is she going to jail now?
BEHAR: Poor Lindsay, yes, she`s going to jail. She went to jail, I believe, today, correct? Yes.
CHO: I feel sorry for her. She`s just a kid. And I think a lot of her drug and alcohol addictions maybe because she`s having problems with dealing with coming out of the closet. You know she`s also --
BEHAR: Oh that`s right she`s a lesbian.
CHO: She`s bi. But that`s hard for kids. And she`s in the public eye. And so I think that maybe some of her substance abuse has to do with some of the pain around that.
BEHAR: You think that`s the issue?
CHO: That could be it.
BEHAR: Because it`s so chic to be a lesbian these days.
CHO: Well but it`s also difficult when you don`t have gay marriage, it`s not legal, and you still have the society that they`re sort of against that. So -- and being somebody that is a star, a very young star, it`s got to be hard
BEHAR: I see that`s an interesting thing.
CHO: I have compassion for her.
BEHAR: OK, yes I do to kind of, I feel bad for her. But I want you to stay around because we have another segment with Margaret Cho. So don`t go away.
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Hello, hello, stay with us friends, we are speaking justice.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHO: I`m sorry I shot you in the face. I got this feeling I was way off base. I`m sorry I killed you dear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Well that was a look at a video off of Margaret Cho`s new CD, "Cho Dependent" which shows a new side of the comedian singing and playing the guitar. And she`s back with me now. I didn`t really know you -- is this a hidden talent of yours to sing?
CHO: Well my mother`s a singer and she`s also a very skilled guitarist. And so it`s something - I actually have more in common with my family as musicians because my grandfather and my father, they all played music. And so that`s something that`s in my family, for sure.
BEHAR: So you mother -- but your mother didn`t want to be a professional musician.
CHO: No, no, no. But she was good at it. So I have it in my blood. And the person that told me that I was a good singer is Cyndi Lauper. Oh, you can sing real good. You should do that you should go out on tour. Go sing real good. Like she was really encouraging so that was good to know.
BEHAR: She`s like a Brooklyn version of your mother.
CHO: Yes, she is, she really is.
BEHAR: So comedian Kathy Griffin.
CHO: Yes.
BEHAR: She`s under fire because on her show she made a comment about Scott Brown, senator Scott Brown`s daughters. Watch this. Then we`ll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHY GRIFFIN: Scott Brown.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s excellent.
GRIFFIN: Who is a senator from Massachusetts and has two daughters that are prostitutes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. By the way, we sure to watch this show Thursday night when Kathy stops by to give her side of the story. So what do you think about what Kathy said? Do you think she went too far? Is it funny? They`re mad at her.
CHO: I don`t think she went too far. First of all, I don`t even know who that person is.
BEHAR: Who, Scott Brown? He`s the senator from Massachusetts.
CHO: Yes.
BEHAR: He posed naked in the centerfold of "Playgirl" magazine.
CHO: Oh good, good.
BEHAR: Was it "Playgirl" yes.
CHO: Good, good.
BEHAR: But he was covered. I mean his gentile was covered. But that was before he was a senator.
CHO: Uh huh.
BEHAR: And he also introduced his daughters in one speech he gave saying they`re available and he posed for them in bikinis. They were in bikinis. People felt they were easy targets and available. But she got into trouble because he didn`t like that she called them prostitutes.
CHO: Yes, well, I don`t know. She can say whatever she wants. And part of her appeal and her glory is that she does. She doesn`t really care.
BEHAR: She doesn`t care, the more you criticize, the more she loves it.
CHO: She loves it. What`s great about Kathy is she`s always been the same way even when she wasn`t this international star. She was living in a studio apartment in Santa Monica, and she was completely the same way. She`s always been this amazingly famous, funny person, in my mind.
BEHAR: Don`t you think that the most successful comics are the once that stay the way they always were basically.
CHO: Exactly. The funniest.
BEHAR: You can`t just change it all of a sudden.
CHO: No.
BEHAR: So there`s an interesting story about the song we played "I`m sorry." what`s that story before we go?
CHO: I was in love with one of the writers from my TV show. From 1994, he broke my heart, didn`t like me back. And then I never Googled him this whole time because I though he`s happy, married, whatever. I`m sure he was living in a lighthouse or something. But finally when I turned 40, I thought I should find out what he`s doing because I still love him. So I Googled him. American screenwriter worked on "All American Girl " with Margaret Cho. And in 2007 he was convicted of the murder of his wife. He bludgeoned her to death and then stuffed her body in the attic for a month until it had partially mummified.
BEHAR: Oh what a romantic story that is.
CHO: So it is good we didn`t hook up.
BEHAR: You really dodged a bullet, baby, literally.
CHO: I wrote a song about it.
BEHAR: It`s called "I`m sorry."
CHO: It`s called, "I`m sorry."
BEHAR: OK we look forward to all of your work. You`re wonderfully funny and terrific. So check out her "Cho Dependent" tour. In CD, starting August 24th and see her on "DROP DEAD DIVA" Sunday nights on Lifetime. Good night everybody.
END
