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Joy Behar Page
Mad Mel; Lindsay Lohan Lockup; Kathy Out Loud
Aired July 23, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the Mel/Oksana he said/she said heats up as cops looking to claims the alleged Gibson rants were leaked as part of an extortion plot by his ex. So did they both break the law? And when will we hear from Mel`s side.
Then we`re entering the first weekend of Lindsay Lohan lockup. How is the troubled starlet handling life as an inmate? And how long will she be there?
Then a stalker is arrested after lying in wait for Jennifer Aniston with a sharp object and duct tape. In the age of Facebook and the iPhone, can stars ever truly feel safe?
Plus, the always outspoken Kathy Griffin stops by.
All that and more starts right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Lindsay Lohan went to jail this week and Mel Gibson, well, he just went on and on and on and on and on. Here to discuss these stories and much more are Belinda Luscombe, editor-at-large for "Time" magazine; comedian and actor David Alan Grier, and Alex McCord, star of the "Real Housewives of New York City" and the author of "Little Kids Big City".
Now I`d like to start with Mel Gibson. And as a service to our viewers who are deprived this week of more of the tapes, let`s just play one of his most recent recordings.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You cannot raise this child with these symptoms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re acting as a crazy man right now, and you have been for many, many months. And you hit me and you hit her while she was in my hands.
Mel, you`re losing your mind. You need medication.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kick up the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) for being a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gold digging (EXPLETIVE DELETED) with a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) son.
And I want my child. And no one will believe you. So (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you. And I`m not giving you my house. And you can rot unless you crawl back, suck my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and say you`re sorry in that order. Do you understand me?
You (EXPLETIVE DELETED) offend my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) maleness, my masculinity, my being, my soul. And you call me a sinner. You`re a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) moving violation.
If you get raped, it`s your fault for showing off your fake (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. You know, isn`t it music to your ears at this point?
DAVID ALAN GRIER, ACTOR AND COMEDIAN: Well, it`s not Mamet.
BEHAR: Well, it`s close to Mamet. He could run for David Mamet.
(CROSS TALKING)
GRIER: Well, he`s a little redundant and someone needs an editor to corroborate that.
BEHAR: Well, they`re claiming that the tapes are edited. Do you believe that?
GRIER: They probably are.
BEHAR: That didn`t sound edited to me because he hardly takes a breath. Go ahead.
ALEX MCCORD, "REAL HOUSEWIVES OF NEW YORK CITY": Maybe they just cut him off when it got to be a little too much. I mean he could probably go on and on and on. I have an Australian husband but I`ve never heard him talk like that.
BEHAR: No.
BELINDA LUSCOMBE, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, I have an Australian husband and we have (INAUDIBLE). I have to say -- we have a liberal attitude in Australia to the bad language, but not that.
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: Are you embarrassed that he`s an Australian?
LUSCOMBE: Oh, he`s not Australian. He`s only Australian -- we only claim him somewhere around the "Mad Max" movies.
GRIER: You can`t give him back.
LUSCOMBE: Oh, no. We give him back.
GRIER: It`s like when Tiger got busted he was white. Now, you`re like -- oh, he is black. You can have him back, black people.
MCCORD: I heard he wants to move back to Australia and I don`t think he`s going to get a very good reception there.
BEHAR: No, it`s not far enough. Australia is not far enough. What`s further than Australia? New Zealand?
MCCORD: Tasmania.
BEHAR: Tasmania.
GRIER: Can I be serious.
BEHAR: Yes, of course, David.
GRIER: The one thing that is continually impressive is how Mel Gibson wells new ground from the word "what"? What? It`s always great. It`s spontaneous. I believe him. You know?
BEHAR: There`s a little backlash on the wife of whatever she is to him.
GRIER: Backlash from whom? Other drunk white guys? She shouldn`t have recorded that.
LUSCOMBE: I was in shock that of all the words, all the names that he calls her, you know, all the c words and everything, when he says, honey -- she says, don`t call me that.
MCCORD: You see that on "Housewives".
BEHAR: What he says, honey, then (EXPLETIVE DELETED) me. That`s what he says.
GRIER: I`m with him there. It`s just the way that it`s couched, Joy. I think the most offensive -- I`m not a woman. I can`t get --
BEHAR: You aren`t? Oh, my God. I thought you were. Have you ever ranted like that to anyone, David?
GRIER: No, because there`s certain elements. He`s like I`m going to burn your house down. There`s charge of spousal abuse with the child. No. I`m sure, you know I curse --
BEHAR: What about the texting? This alleged texts also that he`s been sending her. And we talk to a forensic audio guy yesterday and he said that they can verify those.
GRIER: But how?
BEHAR: So, all of this can be verified.
GRIER: Who is going to text a threat?
(CROSS TALKING)
GRIER: You`re a moving violation.
BEHAR: He`s not denying it. He`s just saying she`s extorting him for money. Because there was a $15 million deal that fell through.
GRIER: $15 million?
BEHAR: $15 million.
GRIER: But here`s what. You`re saying there`s some backlash. It is obvious. When you`re going off that much and the other person is like I`m sorry, Joy, could you speak up? I`m a moving what? Could you repeat that? She`s so calm, that you`re like wow.
BEHAR: Don`t you think she should have set him up? If someone was speaking to me like that --
GRIER: And if someone broke your teeth. If someone knocked your teeth out twice in front of your child --
MCCORD: It`s going to make you want to tape them.
GRIER: Yes.
BEHAR: Even if they just spoke to me that way without knocking my teeth out, I would still tape them.
LUSCOMBE: I think it`s one thing to tape, it`s another thing to release the tapes. I mean we don`t know who released the tapes. It`s one thing to say look, I have this evidence, I`m going to accuse you of this. That`s one thing.
(CROSS TALKING)
GRIER: That`s extortion.
BEHAR: Who do you think released the tapes? O.J. Simpson?
GRIER: Maybe. Do you know he didn`t?
MCCORD: Here`s the thing. Two wrongs don`t make a right whether there`s extortion or anything. But there was a wrong to begin with. I mean you can`t --
GRIER: What was that wrong?
MCCORD: Well, the teeth, the swearing.
GRIER: How about Mel`s last three movies. Those were really bad ones.
BEHAR: That was bad, too.
Let me read you the text. "Oksana, I wasn`t safe for you last night," he says. Who writes that, first of all?
GRIER: Someone learning English. Me no like you much no more.
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: "I wasn`t safe for you last night." That seems to me an admission that he made the situation unsafe, right?
GRIER: Right.
LUSCOMBE: I think that`s someone that`s been to the therapist and you weren`t safe for her last night, it wasn`t safe for you to be there. He`s repeating back the therapist.
BEHAR: Well, he does say he went to a therapist. But you know, how much -- he hasn`t been in therapy long. You need years and years to overcome this type of rage.
GRIER: Maybe his therapist is on call. That`s like what, 2:00 in the morning. By the next day he went to the therapist. Mel, come over now. All right.
BEHAR: Now listen to this part. She says, I have two broken front teeth and a concussion. He says, did you get them fixed yet? Now, some people say that that just makes it look though she could have broken her teeth by falling.
GRIER: Your lawyer friend said that?
BEHAR: I`m saying what other people are saying. Some said that to me today on the air.
GRIER: Ok. Well, we don`t know. Listen, we don`t know. We don`t know. We weren`t there.
LUSCOMBE: The tapes seem really conclusive. But the texting, all that stuff --
GRIER: Yes, but it also goes on into violence if you`re saying I want to bash you in your head with a baseball bat. I`m going to burn the house down. I`m going to kill myself. I`m going to kill you.
This is different than just telling someone to go and have sex with themselves vigorously.
BEHAR: That`s right. Threatening. It sounds like he basically is admitting that he hurt her in some of the texts.
GRIER: Well, that language -- I`m not a doctor, but that kind of language is the language of an abuser when they`re like I`m going to kill you then I`m going to kill myself. I`m going to burn the house down.
MCCORD: He`s on a roll. And when you hear that, when you hear him going crazy like that and you see the text and you see that they can verify that they were sent from wherever, and you see the teeth. I mean come one, you don`t have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.
BEHAR: Ok.
LUSCOMBE: You know what this is good for? This is good for ex-wives because they can say, you can leave me for that younger woman, honey. But two words for you, Mel Gibson.
BEHAR: Exactly. Ok, let`s move on to Lindsay Lohan. Did you hear she`s in jail? I don`t know if you knew that.
GRIER: Wow.
BEHAR: She turned herself in and reported to prison this week. Now should she have been -- the conversation has been this week, should she be in jail or should she be in rehab? Is jail going to help this girl?
LUSCOMBE: Two weeks of micro managed jail I don`t think it`s going to help her. I don`t think it does a damn thing.
GRIER: I think it`s the judge`s call. And the point is they`ve given her probation. They`ve given her probation again. They`ve told her to go to rehab several times. If you refuse to abide by the court`s order of all these other things, jail is a last resort. So hopefully this will help her.
I mean, she clearly needs help. Her last tweet was, "I never thought I`d go jail, eeks." Now, if that is not a cry for help, Joy --
BEHAR: Eeks. I said that one time when a mouse was in my apartment. I actually jumped on the table and said eek. I mean it`s such a cliche.
GRIER: And yet you were in state of terror and you needed help.
BEHAR: I was.
GRIER: Exactly. No, but I mean that`s what I think. I think that -- I would hope so. To me, Lindsay Lohan needs help.
BEHAR: But the jail is not going to help her. What`s jail going to do?
LUSCOMBE: I think one thing she has to be very clear about is that the prison tattoo always sounds like a better idea than it actually turns out to be.
GRIER: Wow. You slipped that one in there.
BEHAR: That`s cute.
LUSCOMBE: Also, it never hurts a girl to have to pay for her own tampons.
GRIER: Wow, can I leave now?
LUSCOMBE: That`s what`s going to happen in jail, she`s going to have to face some responsibility. I think they`re going to be tough. I don`t think it`s going to hurt her.
BEHAR: I think it also will remind her next time if she wants to get into trouble again, hey, I could go back there. You know.
GRIER: Yes, but it`s a nonviolent offense. So it is -- two weeks?
BEHAR: Yes, two weeks. We`re figuring two weeks.
MCCORD: Right. I don`t think it`s long enough. If you`re really going to get through to her -- I think that rock bottom is still out there for her, unfortunately.
LUSCOMBE: No, no.
GRIER: I think something crazy, this is nuts, bananas, I`m going to drop it on the table and walk away with it. Make Lindsay date Mel. How about that? If that doesn`t get you to rehab, look out.
BEHAR: That is really too abusive even for poor Lindsay.
GRIER: Ok. Sorry. All right. Sorry.
BEHAR: I feel sorry for Lindsay. Her father and her mother, there`s something wrong with them. I mean he`s now being accused by his fiancee of assault and threatening to kill her. And the mother wants $50,000 to go on television and talk about Lindsay.
Now, are her parents to blame for the mess she`s going through? What do you think?
LUSCOMBE: Oh you can`t blame ultimately you can`t blame parents altogether. You can`t -- parents have some raw materials that they work with, they can make a child a mess. But in that end, you have to stand up for yourself.
GRIER: Absolutely.
LUSCOMBE: And I think we --
GRIER: Spoken as a parent.
BEHAR: Yes.
LUSCOMBE: As a parent of two very badly behaved children.
GRIER: Yes. Well, I mean, she is an adult. You`re right, she is an adult at this point. And sooner or later and hopefully she will rock bottom out and say, look, I`m going to take charge of my life. Then it`s her responsibility if she wants to stay sober and stay sane --
BEHAR: Obviously is somebody is a good kid, like you see a lot of people come on and they`ve been like thieves and murderers and then they`re -- they`re artists of some sort.
GRIER: Well, that`s all to the credit of the parents.
BEHAR: And then they say oh, my grandmother took care of me. It`s like -- well, then they give the credit to the parent when they`re good. So shouldn`t you give the blame to the parent when they are not good?
MCCORD: Well, you can start there, but it`s not all that. You know, they -- they -- she has -- she bears some responsibility, too. She is the one who is out there going and putting a little thing on her fingernails when she`s in court. I don`t think her parents did that for her.
GRIER: But Jesse James blamed his parents when he did bad, right? When he was -- Jesse James, when he said -- that he was abused by --
BEHAR: Bullock`s husband or the --
GRIER: Yes. Ok. Not the bank robber.
LUSCOMBE: Oh the bank robber yes.
GRIER: It`s not the real Jesse James, the one with the motorcycles.
BEHAR: What was the point?
GRIER: Well, no I mean, in an interview, he said, I came from a very abusive family.
MCCORD: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIER: This is my background.
BEHAR: Some people call it the abuse excuse. Some people say it`s the explanation.
GRIER: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok, thanks very much, you guys. I loved having you here. If you`re in New York, catch David Alan Grier performing at Comics Friday and Saturday. He`s a stand-up comic.
Up next: the troublemaker, Kathy Griffin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: With me now is someone other than Mel Gibson who knows a thing or two about crazy rants and uncontrollable swearing. The controversial comedienne and star of Bravo`s "My Life on the D-List," the very funny, Kathy Griffin.
KATHY GRIFFIN, COMEDIENNE: Double Emmy Award winning and also Emmy nominated for this year.
BEHAR: And extremely modest.
GRIFFIN: Screw you, "Myth Busters". Here I`ll bust your myth. I have no follow-up. Sorry --
BEHAR: Ok.
GRIFFIN: -- I just want to win.
BEHAR: Well, aren`t you loving Mel Gibson`s rants? It`s hilarious.
GRIFFIN: It`s heaven. You know Joan Rivers and I sent him a co- muffin basket. We chipped in for a muffin basket because as a woman, as an American, it`s horrible. As a comedian, it`s a gift from baby Jesus.
BEHAR: That`s true.
GRIFFIN: It`s fantastic.
BEHAR: But you know he has an obsession with oral sex. Now you know I think --
GRIFFIN: That`s fine. That`s not the bad part.
BEHAR: Why? I think it is --
GRIFFIN: It`s the punching her teeth out that I have an issue with.
BEHAR: Yes of course.
GRIFFIN: The oral sex I`m all for it.
BEHAR: Yes but --
GRIFFIN: But when it comes with the punched-out teeth allegedly --
BEHAR: But why are you all for it when he`s demanding it? You don`t want to be --
GRIFFIN: I enjoy hearing the rants because I like to role play in my head. And I hear them and like I sit at home in my house alone --
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: -- yelling back at the tape of him.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: But that`s fun.
BEHAR: But what kind of man is that? What kind of man is that?
GRIFFIN: Screw you. Who do you think you are?
BEHAR: I played her part.
GRIFFIN: I play both parts.
BEHAR: Oh no I only like her part.
GRIFFIN: Ok.
BEHAR: What kind of man is that --
GRIFFIN: What kind of man --
BEHAR: -- that hits a woman with a child -- what kind of man is that?
GRIFFIN: But I like to play his part because he does the -- like he didn`t know she had the fake boobs.
BEHAR: I know.
GRIFFIN: Because that was shock to him.
BEHAR: Exactly.
GRIFFIN: I was in my church that`s in my yard and I couldn`t believe -- I mean, I love, I love the panting and the fact that he has a church in his yard.
BEHAR: I know. It`s so great.
GRIFFIN: It`s beyond Hollywood. Because in Hollywood you have a pool and maybe a naughty pool boy, having the church on the property, he thinks he`s the Pope.
BEHAR: He does.
GRIFFIN: Come on.
BEHAR: Well, he doesn`t want to be Pope right now. Hello.
GRIFFIN: Not today. But he might need the Pope mobile.
BEHAR: Now you got in some trouble for your own. On your own over --
GRIFFIN: I love it, yes.
BEHAR: -- over something you said on a recent episode of "My Life on the D-List."
GRIFFIN: Do we have a clip?
BEHAR: Let`s take a look, of course, we have a clip.
GRIFFIN: The Emmy nominated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRIFFIN: Scott Brown, who is a Senator from Massachusetts --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GRIFFIN: -- and has two daughters that are prostitutes.
And now a brief message from Bravo`s legal team. Scott Brown`s daughters are not prostitutes. We now return you to our regularly scheduled negativity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok now, whose -- whose idea was it, was the disclaimer?
GRIFFIN: Gee, I wonder. Bravo legal?
BEHAR: But that was you -- wasn`t that your voice?
GRIFFIN: Well, I love doing the voice-over. The voice-over is hysterical in my opinion and Emmy worthy.
Look, here is the deal. The genesis of the joke, you won`t like -- does anybody remember that the night he was elected he made a joke -- he was clearly making a joke saying by the way, my daughters are available. And then the Washington press beat up on him saying he was pimping out his daughters.
So on "My Life on the D-List" we actually had some real -- you know Washington insider showing me like 15 pictures of top people on the Hill et cetera. And my joke was I didn`t know who they were.
So they show me a picture of Sonia Sotomayor and I say, oh the maid from "Will & Grace" -- there is the joke. Then they show me Scott Brown and I go, his daughters are prostitutes -- meaning like word association.
BEHAR: Right.
GRIFFIN: So people got the their panties in the bucket --
BEHAR: And including Barney Frank.
GRIFFIN: Barney Frank got his panties in a bunch --
BEHAR: That`s right.
GRIFFIN: -- which takes a lot. Because apparently when he and the boyfriend go to P-town, there`s a lot of panties in a bunch.
And so I met with Barney Frank, who, of course I admired, an openly gay Congressman. I`m thinking oh this is fantastic. And he sat down with me for "My Life on the D-List" and spent half the interview telling me he`d never seen it, he didn`t want to do it. His boyfriend likes me. That`s why, I`m like, yes, I`ve heard this all many times before.
But yes, whenever a statement is issued against me, I`m in heaven. I feel my next special is half written for me.
And then I get to read statements allowed in my live shows which you can go to KathyGriffin.net and see the many, many cities I`ve picked up for my current tour.
BEHAR: Ok.
GRIFFIN: What?
BEHAR: So you`re really feeling bad about it all?
Ok, I mean, when Barney Frank turns on you, one of your gays, you have to start to wonder.
GRIFFIN: Hey, the gays, look, there is -- that`s -- there is a reason that that flag has colors. There`s many levels and colors. There`s not just -- I mean, I make the joke about the gays, but there`s many, many kinds of gay people like there are many, many kinds of straight people.
And you know, he`s -- he`s one of my gays. He just doesn`t know it because he doesn`t know, you know, who I am, as usual.
BEHAR: Ok now you were in Washington to protest "don`t ask, don`t tell" with Lieutenant Dan Choi who was on my show.
GRIFFIN: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: Now, yesterday he was honorably discharged for being gay? What do you make of that?
GRIFFIN: He was -- was he honorably discharged?
BEHAR: Honorably yes.
GRIFFIN: I don`t know what that means, because to me if he was discharged for being gay, then I don`t know how honorable that is.
Look, I think that the reason that I did the episode about the repeal of "don`t ask, don`t tell" is I think that people that are for the repeal of "don`t ask, don`t tell" truly are going to be on the right side of history. I mean, honestly.
BEHAR: That`s right.
GRIFFIN: I think that this is something that in a very short time we`re going to look back and we`re going to say, really?
And you know, I`ve been to Iraq and Afghanistan on camera and off, and I`ve been to Walter Reed, et cetera. And knowing that there are thousands of brave men and women, gay brave men and women who have been discharged --
BEHAR: Right.
GRIFFIN: Thousands and thousands currently serving overseas -- currently serving in war zones, I really was just trying to give them a voice.
BEHAR: All right.
GRIFFIN: That`s the way I protest. I make jokes about it. I say silly things. I gather as many people as possible.
BEHAR: Well, you`re very good to the gay community and they know it.
So we`ll have more with Kathy Griffin in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ready?
GRIFFIN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. Here comes the speculum. We`re putting in the brush now to get the solids from the cervix.
The brush has entered her vagina.
That`s it. I`m done.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t know what a pap smear was because my parents are from Iran. So we don`t learn about things like that. And she`s just inspired me and taught me a lot about my own body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m back with Kathy griffin who just got a pap smear on "My Life on the D-List.
GRIFFIN: Public pap smear, first time ever. And by the way, that`s why when I`m called something like scum, I really don`t care. Because you know what -- to hear that woman say I`m from Iran and I didn`t even know what pap smear was until this. I say fine, call me scum all day.
I know it was a little silly to get a public pap smear and my mother isn`t technically speaking to me. But you know what? I thought it was kind of wild and a wild thing to do. And on "My Life on the D-List" we try to do things that have never been done. And in that same episode, my tour manager Tom actually had his balls waxed.
BEHAR: I`m so happy for him.
GRIFFIN: Well, that`s never been done. Don`t act like you guys do that on this show. When was the last time you had your balls waxed?
BEHAR: Only the cameramen get that done. Not the rest of the staff.
GRIFFIN: Fingers crossed guys. Go to a safe place.
BEHAR: Ok. So somebody calls you scum, you have your own way of saying things about people. So people are going to come back at you Kathy.
GRIFFIN: I trash about everybody, yes.
BEHAR: So then they`re going to say trash back to you.
GRIFFIN: Fine, of course. By the way, you`re on a show called "The View". That`s the idea, everybody has a point of view. They`re all allowed to have a point of view.
BEHAR: Right.
GRIFFIN: I do shows, I have walkouts. I have people write letters of protest. I have people clap, I have people stand and everything in between. That`s what I love about it.
BEHAR: I was reading a New York magazine article about Joan Rivers.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: And she says that --
GRIFFIN: I love that documentary about her, by the way a piece of work.
BEHAR: Oh, it`s great. I loved it. It`s brilliant. She was saying something about you in there.
GRIFFIN: What?
BEHAR: She was just saying like that she`s frightened of you because you`re as driven as she is, as obsessed and possessed for success that she is.
GRIFFIN: She came over to my house for dinner four nights ago. And we just sat at the kitchen table and chatted. And that`s something we have in common. We have --
BEHAR: What drives the two of you to that extent?
GRIFFIN: You can call it a blind ambition or you can say -- you know, you said to me on "My Life on the D-List," you know you`re going to die alone and I said alone and miserable and I laughed. And I said, yes.
But the truth of the matter is, I really do love stand-up and it really is my first love. And so that`s why I do it so much.
Am I ruthlessly driven? I don`t know. I`m doing what I love to do the very, very most. I love doing "My Life on the D-List", I love doing stand up --
BEHAR: But you don`t have to die alone if you would just get back with Levi Johnston and take him away from them.
GRIFFIN: I need a minute. I didn`t know we were going to go there. Take it down, Diane Sawyer. I thought this was going to be a little more light-hearted.
I am a broken woman, Joy. I need help. You get over here and hug me because Levi has left me for that woman -- that woman.
I`m in the middle of --
BEHAR: Maybe if you got knocked up, he would have stayed with you.
GRIFFIN: Did you read the "Enquirer"? It said we had multiple sex romps. To be in the "Enquirer" and say that I had multiple --
BEHAR: A dream come true.
GRIFFIN: Oh, it was heaven. Once again, I can`t get to the stage fast enough. It`s fantastic.
BEHAR: They say that they`re staying abstinent until the wedding. Do you buy it, those two?
GRIFFIN: Is this rhetorical? Are you just -- come on?
BEHAR: I`m just asking.
GRIFFIN: You`re just asking. Just asking.
BEHAR: As they say in the hood, I`m just x-ing.
GRIFFIN: You know what? I`m someone who`s had multiple sex romps; I hardly go along with that.
BEHAR: All right. As always, a wonderful treat to see, you Miss Kathy.
GRIFFIN: My treat.
BEHAR: Catch her on "My Life on the D-List Tuesdays at 10:00 p.m. on Bravo and get her book or she`ll come to your house and stab you. "The Official Book Club Selection" now in paperback.
Back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Jennifer Aniston has succeeded in getting a restraining order against a man who allegedly drove across the country to stalk her. Police found Jason Peyton lying in wait for Aniston on Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles with a sharp object, a bag and a roll of duct tape. And unfortunately, Aniston is just one of a long list of celebrities who is being stalked now. With me to discuss the growing phenomenon are A.J. Hammer host of HLN`s SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, Lisa Bloom attorney at the bloomfirm.com and Chris Mohandie forensic psychologist and stalking expert. A.J., let me start with you. What do we know about this Jason Peyton?
A.J. HAMMER, HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Apparently not a stable guy at all. He has a history of violence and a history of mental illness. Apparently he stabbed himself in the past. He hit his mother with a golf club back in 2008. He was busted for harassing a neighbor in Pennsylvania. That`s apparently where he`s from.
BEHAR: And he drove from Pennsylvania to Los Angeles?
HAMMER: and that`s what he did and for that crime back in 2008, he was found not guilty by reason of insanity and put in the hospital and then put on antipsychotic drugs. Apparently he`s now off those drugs.
BEHAR: It`s always the situation where they don`t take the drugs when somebody goes berserk like that.
HAMMER: Yes it can totally throw a switch.
BEHAR: And it`s a very hard to enforce something like that. How did the cops find him?
HAMMER: Well apparently he left a note that his dad found it was back on June 25th, a note saying that he was off to California. I guess his dad knowing about his interest in Jenifer Aniston surmised he`s going out, looking for Jennifer Aniston. And apparently his mom signaled to the cops, be on the lookout for her son.
BEHAR: How old is he?
HAMMER: I don`t know - you know I don`t know his age. I`m not sure.
BEHAR: Uh huh, and what else -- did the cops find anything else?
HAMMER: Well in addition, you mentioned he was lying in wait -
BEHAR: With the duct tape.
HAMMER: With duct tape and all that. Apparently, carved on the side of his car in the paint of his car, notes like, I love you, Jennifer Aniston. They found notes inside the car with baby names that --
BEHAR: Baby names?
HAMMER: For the baby he was apparently hoping to have with Jennifer Aniston.
BEHAR: Wow. WHERE is he now, this guy?
HAMMER: Well now he`s on a mandatory psychiatric hold. Once he`s released, he`s got to stay 100 yards away. Not just from Jenifer Anniston but everything and anyone having to do with Jennifer Aniston. So if she likes Mocha Lattes I guess he has to stay away from Mocha Lattes. I`m not sure but on August 9th, they`re going to have a hearing. And I have a feeling it`s going to go down the same road as it did in 2008 for this guy.
BEHAR: OK all right, let me bring in my panel. Lisa, let me ask you. You know respecting boundaries is not something that stalkers do.
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY, THEBLOOMFIRM.COM: Right.
BEHAR: And these restraining orders, I mean do they really do any good? If somebody is driving cross country, you know, with duct tape and sharp objects headed for Jennifer Aniston, what good is a restraining order really?
BLOOM: Well you make an important point, Joy, that restraining orders are clearly not enough standing alone to protect you. Anybody on television, I`m sure it has happened to you, it`s happened to me. Stalkers come out of the woodwork. So you have to protect yourselves. I believe in big barking dogs and living in a gated area to keep people out. Somebody like Jenifer Aniston, obviously, has private security. But restraining orders are important for one reason. Law enforcement loves it when people have a restraining order. Why? Because if somebody violates the order, that person goes immediately, directly to jail. They don`t pass go, they don`t collect $200. They don`t have to have a trial or a hearing. If they violate a restraining order by sending an email, making a phone call, show up, God forbid, where somebody is if physically present, law enforcement can immediately grab that person and send them right to jail.
BEHAR: So if you get a restraining order, you do have a little bit of power with the police to this guy off your back, right?
BLOOM: Exactly that`s why law enforcement likes it.
BEHAR: OK, Chris, a lot of stalkers are mentally ill like this guy and they think they have actual relationships with these celebrities. Now could a restraining order actually enrage a stalker? Once he knows you`ve got it, he might really want to kill you then.
KRIS MOHANDIE, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well that`s part of it. But about 60 percent of the time the restraining order does work. But with a guy like this, they may see that as the connection between them and the victim. That now we have this bond that is in paper. Our names appear together. There can be that. I want to underscore what`s already been said. It`s an important tool for law enforcement because it`s on the record that he`s been noticed, that this is unacceptable.
BEHAR: Yes.
MOHANDIE: And law enforcement loves it. It`s a great tool. But it is just a piece of paper. And thus, all the other security precautions that should be in place absolutely have to be there. Because some of these folks, will, in fact, as you say, escalate in response to this.
BEHAR: Right.
MOHANDIE: Particularly guys that are delusional, as this guy clearly is.
BEHAR: Right.
HAMMER: You know when you hear the details, Joy, of what this guy allegedly had with him, the sharp objects, the duct tape, and that he was apparently waiting in an area frequented by Jennifer Aniston, that`s really scary. And you think, OK, so she has her own security.
BEHAR: Yes.
HAMMER: But still, the fact that this is going on - and of course, it`s going to go on. Because anybody in the public eye, as Lisa said, we`ve all had to deal with it on some level. It`s just positively frightening.
BEHAR: Yes well my stalkers are all in menopause.
HAMMER: What the hell -
BEHAR: Just saying.
BLOOM: Are you talking about me out there, Joy?
BEHAR: But, you know --
HAMMER: You said it, Lisa.
BEHAR: I don`t mean to make light of it. It`s really a serious topic. Anyway, Sandra Bullock --
MOHANDIE: Yes, it is.
BEHAR: It`s a serious topic I know, Chris. Go ahead.
MOHANDIE: Well this is -- he`s actually a classic celebrity stalker, and of the variety we`re most concerned about. Most celebrity stalkers we`ve studied - and we`ve looked at hundreds of them, will do it from afar. They`ll send e-mails and gifts and they`ll never travel. He traveled. He was -- despite being mentally ill, he was capable of getting out here. And he has potentially an abduction kit with him. Duct tape and a sharp object -
BEHAR: Right.
MOHANDIE: Which we`ve seen, for example, in the Spielberg case and in other cases in the past. So he would be in that rare group of folks we are concerned about potentially being a near miss or an actual terrible event occurring. He`s the guy that --
BLOOM: And the good news it -
MOHANDIE: You have to be at the top.
BLOOM: That -
BEHAR: Go ahead.
BLOOM: He hasn`t actually harmed her. And we`ve come -
MOHANDIE: Right.
BLOOM: A long way you in protecting stalking victims. You know a decade or two ago, the police would say, he didn`t harm her. He can drive across the country. He can have items in his car, this isn`t a crime. Well now it is a crime. Now he can be locked up for clearly what is an illegal act, which is stalking her and plotting to do her harm. And we all see this for what it is now. So we`ve really progress as a culture, I think, in that way.
MOHANDIE: That`s right.
BEHAR: Right, right but Sandra Bullock recently had to renew a restraining order. Why do you have to renew it? Why isn`t it permanent?
BLOOM: Well -
MOHANDIE: Well -
BLOOM: Well that`s because they expire Joy.
MOHANDIE: Yes, they expire.
BLOOM: They generally last about a year or two and then they expire, I`m sorry, go ahead.
BEHAR: So you have to keep renewing it if the guy keeps coming after you? All right, I guess.
MOHANDIE: Yes, periodically. Because if you let them lapse, some of these guys will take that as meaning, hey it`s OK now.
BEHAR: Yes.
MOHANDIE: Because they`re not thinking about things the same way you and I are. Particularly the ones that are pursuing public figures how are seriously mentally ill.
BEHAR: There is something about the -
MOHANDIE: They see things through a different lens.
BEHAR: There`s something about renewing it that bothers me though. Because you know, you - so the restraining order is in place. The guy stops awhile because the police are on him.
MOHANDIE: Yes.
BEHAR: You forget about it. He disappears. Now he knows a year later, he can come back into it.
HAMMER: Hopefully and certainly at the level of Sandra Bullock and Jennifer Aniston, you have people paying attention to this. And I thought it was particularly interesting. And Lisa, you can tell me if this is a pretty common thing. I`ve never heard it before, where it`s not only stay away from Jen Aniston, but stay away from anything and anyone associated with her. So that brings to mind agents, managers, lawyers - anybody at all.
BEHAR: How would he know who those people are though? You mentioned --
BLOOM: Yes, I think that`s probably impermissibly broad. And A.J. you raise a good point, I mean you can`t stay away from mocha lattes if that`s her cup of tea, so to speak. But I think the purpose of it is we don`t want loopholes. We don`t want him to say well, I didn`t know she was going to be there. I was just hanging out where her agent is where she happens to go. So they`re trying to tighten the noose around this guy`s neck.
BEHAR: Yes, that`s smart.
BLOOM: I think that probably is why the attorney challenged that -
BEHAR: Yes, that`s smart.
MOHANDIE: Yes these guys are frequently very resourceful and manipulative despite being very impaired mentally. And they will target third parties and locations they know they can have a chance encounter.
BEHAR: It`s like I may be crazy, but I`m not stupid. We`ve heard that.
MOHANDIE: Exactly, exactly.
BEHAR: You know Chris, you mentioned the Steven Spielberg case -
MOHANDIE: Right.
BEHAR: Where his stalker showed up with his house with the intention to rape Steven Spielberg.
MOHANDIE: Right, that`s right. He had duct tape, box cutters and a plan that he wanted him to force him to have sexual relations.
BEHAR: Oh my god.
MOHANDIE: He had a kit similar to this guy`s kit. What we`re seeing is family members who have a sick family member will take responsibility to notify the police. And I think they should be commended for doing that. I think that`s a really nice move.
BEHAR: How do you know when the stalker is just an - is an obsessed fan or someone who wants to do you harm? I mean you know celebrities have fans. They threw confetti at Lindsay Lohan when she walked into the jail yesterday. You know these people are -- they need to get a life also, you know? Is it just a question of get a life, or I`m out to hurt you?
MOHANDIE: Well I think in this case, and cases like it, it`s usually not very subtle. It`s all they talk about. It`s all they think about. And they have these beliefs that are just not grounded in reality. I have a relationship with Jennifer or whomever it might be. I`m actually going to have children with this person and it`s clearly not within the realm of reality. So that would be beyond what we see with the normal --
BLOOM: Yes people are under the delusion that if they see people on TV are their friends, and they`re having a relationship with them. I had a stalker like that who felt that I was his girlfriend. And then one day he saw me and he thought I was angry at him and the next day he thought we had made up. I mean that`s the kind of delusion that people get because they feel a connection with people that they see on television. It`s a very scary thing. I can tell you representing Michael Lohan, when we went to the court room the other day. There were people who came out of the woodwork, who were threatening his life, who were yelling all kinds of ugly, nasty things, which was why he had to have a bodyguard when he goes to court. And he`s not, of course, at the level of Jennifer Aniston.
BEHAR: No but a lot of celebrities have been stalked. It`s very commonplace.
MOHANDIE: It is a very common place.
BEHAR: It`s common place isn`t it?
MOHANDIE: It is very common place particularly among females who are viewed as attractive, approachable, maybe a little vulnerable and that have a lot of exposure. It`s very common. We`ve actually studied --
BEHAR: Except that you just mentioned Steven Spielberg. You know it could happen -- what was the motivation there, just to rape the guy? I mean what`s that about?
MOHANDIE: That`s right. Well, the offender in that case was gay, and thus he targets, you know, somebody that he believes that he could, you know, pursue in that realm for a variety of different reasons.
BEHAR: Oh my god. Thanks, everybody, very much, for this conversation.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jazz baby
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s just a beau harmony. That whopty thousand dollar that caused all the towel is just a copy of the way I naturally walk because I`m a jazz baby jazz baby, that`s me --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Known as the first lady of musical comedy, Carol Channing has spent over five decades performing on the Broadway stage in such hits as "GENTLEMAN PREFER BLONDS" and "HELLO DOLLY" and on the silver screen in numerous films. Her latest CD "For Heaven`s Sake" is out now. And I`m thrilled to welcome Carol to my show.
CAROL CHANNING SINGER/ACTOR: Oh, Joy, hello, dear.
BEHAR: It is lovely to see you. You know, I once -- I read somewhere that you have no intention of ever retiring. Now, I don`t know your age. I -- over 35, I would presume.
BEHAR: Over 35.
CHANNING: Yes. Well, I have six months to go till I`m 90.
BEHAR: Is that how old you are, 89?
CHANNING: Yes.
BEHAR: So then is it still your plan to never retire?
CHANNING: Oh, no, why, do what?
BEHAR: Yes do what.
CHANNING: You`re the same.
BEHAR: I would never be able to retire either, I think.
CHANNING: No, no.
BEHAR: I don`t know what I would do. I`d just get bored, I think.
CHANNING: Yes. And old and inadequate and no, no.
BEHAR: Right but you`ve managed -- I noticed that you managed to stay skinny all your life. How do you do that?
CHANNING: I don`t know. You know Joy, I`ve been eating like crazy and I can`t seem to gain any weight. I figure if I gain a little weight I`d lose some of this.
BEHAR: Yes, have you ever had a face lift?
CHANNING: No.
BEHAR: You never did that?
CHANNING: Well, I asked somebody to straighten out something here and he sliced it and now I can`t smile.
BEHAR: So don`t bother with that.
CHANNING: Don`t bother with face lifts. That`s my message. Where`s the camera?
BEHAR: Right here, hon. Straight ahead.
CHANNING: Oh, hello. Hello. I`m with Joy. Isn`t that wonderful? It`s only above par?
BEHAR: Just look straight ahead. We can get you.
CHANNING: I`m happy to be here, I just want you t know. Thank you, Joy.
BEHAR: OK. What was I saying.
CHANNING: Oh, geez.
BEHAR: I was at a party with you one time and you brought your own food, I remember. Many years ago.
CHANTING: Yes, Joy.
BEHAR: Is that how you stay thin by bringing your own food?
CHANNING: No, that isn`t about staying thin.
BEHAR: No.
CHANNING: That`s because I didn`t dare - you know, if you`re doing eight, nine shows a week and interviews all day long and all that. And somebody might put some milk in the vegetables or something or a little something you can`t tolerate. And you can`t sing after that, and you come out and say, hello -- you know. And so it could do that.
BEHAR: Hello dolly, is that what you would do?
CHANNING: Yes. I used to bring it. But I`ll tell you that I woke up seven years ago from my wedding night with Harry Coleejen. Your child hood sweetheart.
BEHAR: Your present husband.
CHANNING: My present husband. And I woke up. And we went and had a Mexican breakfast. And I forgot about all my allergies and everything that I thought I couldn`t do. I`ve been eating everything just since and I`m just fine.
BEHAR: Well what do you attribute that to?
CHANNING: It`s the happiest time in my life.
BEHAR: Oh that`s so nice. Because you`re happily married now.
CHANNING: Oh, yes, Joy.
BEHAR: Then the other three were not as good as Harry, huh?
CHANNING: Well I hate to say anything against anybody. It was probably my fault.
BEHAR: You think so?
CHANNING: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: Who are they, the other three?
CHANNING: I can`t remember. Honest to -- isn`t that strange?
BEHAR: No you really can`t remember them?
CHANNING: I honestly can`t remember what was right about them and what was wrong about them. It`s just that now I`m -- see, I was 12 and Harry was 13 when we first met in junior high.
BEHAR: Right.
CHANNING: And he was the center on the soccer team. And he was a beautiful Armenian boy. And Armenians, I have to tell you, they breed like rabbits.
BEHAR: Is that so?
CHANNING: Yes, they do.
BEHAR: I didn`t know that about Armenians.
CHANNING: And I`m an only child. You didn`t? Well, they have children at Christmas time there are children all over the place. And I have a big family. And we all can`t wait to be together. And his sisters, they`re to lo and do you know -- they give -- Armenians are funny, Joy.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHANNING: They`re interesting. The first money they make, they think civic mindedly and they get a library for the town like Fresno. Two parks. My sister married Pilobose (ph), Steve Pilobose (ph) the first man to get melons over the Mexican border and all that.
BEHAR: Really? Did he carry them himself?
CHANNING: He had them in a great big truck. But the way he described it, I had to say, that`s what George would say. That`s show business.
BEHAR: That`s show business.
CHANNING: You bet.
BEHAR: You know I was reading some research about you. It`s very interesting a couple of the things about you. For example, I did not know that you were on Nixon`s enemies list. I like that about you. That`s a wonderful little factoid about you.
CHANNING: So was that - who was that -- everybody there -- what`s his name? The one that was a football player and he didn`t know who anybody was?
BEHAR: I don`t know anything about sports. Knute Rockne?
CHANNING: I don`t know. Harry was the center on the soccer team. And he won the -- for the whole state of California, the broad jump -
BEHAR: Uh huh.
CHANNING: Which they changed to the long jump on the account of those unfortunate jokes.
BEHAR: I see. The other thing I read about you, and I read in your autobiography in 2002 that your mother told you that your father was half black.
CHANNING: Not half. No he was as white as I am. My mother and father had disagreements most of the time. And after a good swift disagreement, she decided to tell me, I just want to tell you something. If you want to leave home and go to college -- she wasn`t crying. She was a good mother to me. She was fine. They just didn`t get along with each other.
BEHAR: No but what was the information she gave you about your father?
CHANNING: Oh, it`s probably not true. But I hope it is because if it is, I got the -- I can dance better than any white woman in the business and sing better.
BEHAR: So it`s not true?
CHANNING: Probably not.
BEHAR: Oh, your mother was a wacky woman. We`ll be back in a minute.
CHANNING: You bet. But it may be true, and I hope it is.
BEHAR: Well, that would be interesting. But she told you that your father was half --
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BEHAR: We`re back with Carol Channing. You know, I read that you gave young -- the young Clint Eastwood his first on-screen kiss.
CHANNING: Yes. And mine, too. I said, Clint, I never get these parts. And he said, I don`t either. This is my first part. It was a terrible movie. "The First Traveling Sales Lady" starring Ginger Rogers.
BEHAR: Oh.
CHANNING: Yes, so every lunch hour, I said do my arms go over you or under you? Which way? And how do we get both our faces to face camera when we`re kissing and all that. Well, we tried everything we could. And of course, it was first thing that was cut from the movie.
BEHAR: Oh, well.
CHANNING: I was too clumsy.
BEHAR: Sure.
CHANNING: Yes so one Christmas he was standing behind me and I was talking to people at the producer`s house. I thought there`s somebody behind me. Everybody was magnetized by something behind me. So I turned and looked. And he said, don`t you remember me? I was your first kiss. Isn`t that sweet?
BEHAR: That is sweet that he remembered.
CHANNING: I`ve got to tell you something.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHANNING: I`m going to be at the --
BEHAR: Where are you going?
CHANNING: I`m going to the -- it`s at -- well, anyway.
BEHAR: Barnes & Noble?
CHANNING: Barnes and Nobles, yes, how did you know?
BEHAR: Because I read it somewhere at Lincoln center --
CHANNING: And I`ll be signing all these records that we`ve got -
BEHAR: Right.
CHANNING: That are wonderful. Well, anyway, they`re songs my father taught me.
BEHAR: Oh, I see.
CHANNING: He came from Augusta, Georgia, and he taught me these wonderful -- oh, great songs. Mama send me a letter - you know?
BEHAR: Sing some of them let me hear what else you got here.
CHANNING: Oh, wonderful things. Roll Jordan roll, Jordan roll. Oh just wonderful things. I got a shoes, you got a shoes, all god`s children got shoes to wear when I get to heaven I`m going to put on my shoes and going to walk all over god`s heaven --
BEHAR: Oh very good.
CHANNING: Oh wonderful things. And I can hear my father`s voice harmonizing with me. So I bet you when you hear it, you`ll hear my father`s voice. He`s long gone.
BEHAR: He is.
CHANNING: Yes.
BEHAR: Tell me about the Carol Channing Foundation for the arts that you and Harry have started.
CHANNING: Oh, thank you.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHANNING: That`s what I live for.
BEHAR: I know you do. So tell me about it.
CHANNING: Well t3his is the thing. Carol Channing, what`s happened is they`ve taken all the arts out of public schools. Not private schools. They can afford to get their teachers.
BEHAR: Right. That`s right.
CHANNING: Public schools. You take the arts out of schools, Joy, you will understand this. You`re an artist. I`m supposed to be one. But --
BEHAR: You have been for any years, Carol.
CHANNING: I see. Well yes, anyway. But we`ve got to get arts back in the public schools because it`s like fertilizer on the brain.
BEHAR: Absolutely.
CHANNING: And nobody realizes that. And I got smarter and smarter. And Harry, we discovered poetry together. We got carried away the two of us. And then he graduated and do you know, on graduation day he received the best all-around student and athlete in the school.
BEHAR: Wow.
CHANNING: And I graduated a year later from middle school.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHANNING: And I graduated and I got the same medal and it`s on exhibit in the junior high school in San Francisco.
BEHAR: How do you like that?
CHANNING: Yes, that can happen to all students.
BEHAR: Thank you so much for joining me Carol. A very good advocate for the arts. It is very much appreciated. Check out her album "For Heaven`s Sake." It`s out now. Good night, everybody. Sing us out, Carol.
CHANNING: I love you. Oh out --
BEHAR: Sing us a little -
CHANNING: With what?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
