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Joy Behar Page
Where is Kyron Horman?; May-December Romances; Update on Zsa Zsa Gabor
Aired July 27, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight, the latest in the case of missing Oregon boy Kyron Horman. Authorities held a press conference today. Did they announce an arrest? We`ll find out.
Then Kate Gosselin and her eight kids are going camping in Alaska with Sarah Palin. I don`t know what those little monsters did, but that is one big time-out.
And there`s a new trend of young men dating much older women. I`m thrilled. Finally stretch mashes are a big turn-on.
That and more right now.
We`re going to start today with the kind of stories we don`t usually cover, but in light of new developments, we`d be remiss if we didn`t. The search for missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman continues as a grand jury subpoenas a friend of the boy`s stepmother. Will her testimony lead to an arrest? And where did the stepmother get a reported $350,000 to cover her legal fees?
Here with the latest is Jean Casarez, correspondent with "In Session" on TruTV; Bruce McCain, attorney and retired captain with the local county sheriff`s office in Portland, Oregon; and Mickey Sherman, criminal defense attorney.
Jean, authorities held a press conference a little earlier. What`s the latest on that?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": You know a lot of people are saying that there`s not much information from this press conference, but I think there`s something pretty big because they increased the reward amount from $25,000 to $50,000, saying an anonymous donor gave that money. But what they`re really doing, Joy, they are appealing to the public because they believe people know things and that people need an inducement or a motivation to come forward, and I think that`s why they held that press conference today because they need more information.
BEHAR: Why would they have to have an inducement when a child is missing? What do they got to lose? Who are they fearful of?
CASAREZ: I think they`re scared that Terri Horman, who was the last relative to see little Kyron alive --
BEHAR: The stepmother --
CASAREZ: The stepmother, that`s right. That she has talked to people -- because we heard the family say that she is asking people, allegedly, because this comes from the family, to not help law enforcement. So law enforcement is trying to say, please help us. We are increasing this amount of $50,000 if you can give us critical information on Kyron.
BEHAR: Now, a grand jury has been convened. This DeDe Spicher, a friend of the stepmother met with them today. Now if a grand jury is convened, doesn`t it mean there`s more evidence -- that there`s enough evidence here to get the jury together? What happened there?
CASAREZ: I think that`s the biggest part of DeDe Spicher. We saw her coming out. Now there are reports that she actually didn`t answer questions before the grand jury. How do we know? It`s a secret proceeding.
But the biggest thing is, yes, you`re right, the grand jury`s convened. It sounds like they`re hearing evidence on this case. They say it`s a criminal investigation. I mean, many times it`s just a missing persons investigation, but they say a crime has been committed. They said that today in the press conference because the biological parents haven`t seen their child in 53 days.
So this Dede Spicher, is that how you say her name, Spicher? Bruce, let me ask you. She`s a friend of the stepmother, right. Can she claim immunity, this woman? Why is she important?
BRUCE MCCAIN, MULTNOMAH COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Yes, she is Joy. Her name is pronounced Spicher with a silent h. She did appear twice -- yes -- twice subpoenaed to the grand jury yesterday in Multnomah County. That`s convened for a panel for 30 days. But all reports from her attorneys that she did not testify.
That is important because in Oregon law a grand jury can`t compel her to testify, but if they do so, she`s entitled to what`s called transactional immunity; what`s more than likely happening here now.
She`s lawyered up. She`s going to go to the district attorney and ask and demand immunity and then tell everything she knows in exchange for no prosecution particularly like for hindering prosecution or some other related charge.
And on the press conference, by the way, Joy, that just ended, really very quick because the one thing -- and I`ve been following this on the ground here in Portland -- the one thing that jumped out at me most of all -- you saw Desiree Young`s highly emotional approach to that podium.
This is a carefully drafted script by everybody that spoke, not once when they related to Kyron did they ever use an adjective of alive or living. And I think that`s significant compared to past family statements.
BEHAR: What do you say to that, Mickey?
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, they`re optimistic. No one wants to believe that their child is deceased.
BEHAR: He`s been missing for a while now.
SHERMAN: Yes. But you know, so was Elizabeth Smart.
BEHAR: That`s true.
SHERMAN: You never know. You never know. I think it`s -- I hope it`s not wishful thinking. I hope it comes to fruition. But I think the statement was powerful.
BEHAR: The child`s father, Kyron`s father has publicly pinned his son`s disappearance on his estranged wife who is the child`s stepmother. Her name is Terri Horman. What do you think the father knows?
SHERMAN: I got to believe if the father knew something concrete, he would come forward and say this is what I believe. I think he suspects --
BEHAR: Then why does he say -- he suspects her then?
SHERMAN: Well, she dropped the kid off at school supposedly and the kid never made it from the outside into the second grade. I mean, that just does not compute. There`s something missing there.
That`s why they`re putting the pressure on this Dede Spicher woman to let her spill her guts. I think it`s a good thing she`s lawyered up because maybe now she will make a deal with the state --
BEHAR: And tell something.
SHERMAN: Exactly.
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: She knows something maybe, that woman.
Ok. Jean, the stepmother is reportedly paying $350,000 in lawyer fees. Where did she get the money? What do you know about that?
CASAREZ: Well, this is according to a legal document. And, of course, this is Kaine Horman, that`s her husband. He filed for divorce. This is Kaine`s father. But he filed a motion for order to show cause saying, look you have $350,000 you just paid to your brand new criminal lawyer. If this is a marital liability, it is also a marital asset and I want half of it because I have attorney costs, too, and I have safety issues with my legal issues for myself and my child.
BEHAR: Could she have gotten that money in some sort of media deal, do you think?
SHERMAN: It`s possible. It`s got to be a pretty scuzzy network that`s going to give that woman money. When people get arrested, they go to their people. You never know what your people have, your cousins, your uncles, your brothers, your friends; they come up with the money, especially when your life is at stake.
BEHAR: That`s a lot of money. Why so much money?
SHERMAN: It`s not. It`s probably a murder case. It`s going to be a technical case, its` going to be a high profile case. The lawyer, believe it or not, on $350,000 is not going to make money. It`s going to be ticked away very quickly.
BEHAR: Yes. It`s not that much.
It`s interesting. The reason that people are talking about this case is because this stepmother is kind of strange. She`s also being looked at for allegedly trying to hire someone to kill her husband.
Jean, do you know anything about that?
CASAREZ: There`s two different men that she`s implicated with. First of all, late last year, according to legal records that we read, law enforcement believes she allegedly tried to hire the landscaper to kill her husband, who is Kaine Horman. That`s what led to the restraining order. He moved out and he filed for divorce.
Now there`s someone named Michael Cook who was Kaine Horman`s high school friend who came out apparently after Kyron went missing that she not only showed the restraining order to, which is a violation of the restraining order, but he took pictures of it on his cell phone -- at least the cell phone took pictures of where Kaine and the little Kiara who was their child where they were hiding out because of that restraining order.
And there`s sexual photos -- I mean I could go on and on -- there are sexual photos that she allegedly texted to him along with sexual messages and this is all when Kaine -- Kyron was missing.
BEHAR: So this is all -- this is why this story has captured the imagination --
(CROSS TALKING)
SHERMAN: And she`s creepy.
BEHAR: She`s creepy?
SHERMAN: You see those pictures -- I`m sure Jean`s seen them -- of her in her body building deal. I mean, it`s very strange. And just the concept, to kill your child, even if it`s your stepchild --
BEHAR: I think to harm any child, if it`s true.
SHERMAN: It just does not compute.
BEHAR: Yes.
Bruce, the stepmother`s story doesn`t add up for you. Why?
MCCAIN: Go back, Joy, to the date of June 4th, there`s a big gap where the investigators are trying to assemble where she was minute by minute. Of course, we have now the infamous driving around the countryside in the nondescript white pickup truck because Kiara had earache. Some of the whereabouts can be verified by cameras, time stamps at the gym, et cetera. But there`s a gap of time in that morning where she`s totally unaccounted for.
And then you couple that with the doctor`s appointment issue where the school was under the impression from Terri that Kyron was not supposed to be in school that day. It sets up a perfect storm where she`s able to bring Kyron to the classroom, show him around and then the school never once worried about him not being there because they were under the impression he was at a doctor`s appointment. She later says, no, I think I meant the following week, which would have been the last day of school.
BEHAR: What do they need to arrest -- to make an arrest here?
SHERMAN: It`s got to be probable cause. It`s like pornography. You can`t describe it but you know it when you see it. It has to be more than what you call the judicial (INAUDIBLE). They`ve got to have something.
It doesn`t have to be forensic, doesn`t have to be like CSI. It could even be Dede Spicher saying, she told me she did it. It could be as simple as that. But they need probably cause.
BEHAR: Do you think she`s guilty of the crime?
SHERMAN: Who else? I know I`m a criminal defense attorney and I`m supposed to be defending them, but if I would be betting, I would be betting on her only because it just makes more sense.
BEHAR: Bruce, do you think she`s guilty? Did she do it?
MCCAIN: It looks like she`s got some criminal culpability. He`s absolutely right about the probable cause. The other key piece to this though, unlike a lot of criminal cases, this one is actually being run and overseen by the local district attorney.
So even though it`s reportedly already has probable cause to arrest her so he knows search warrants have to be in support of a probable cause as do indictments. But this is going to be a case where the high profile criminal defense lawyer already in ready and he`s not going to take this until he has a case that he can take to trial and secure a conviction or a guilty plea.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks, guys, very much.
We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW Kate plus eight plus Sarah Palin? The latest on Kate Gosselin and Sarah Palin`s reported reality show collaboration.
And Cybill Shepherd drops by the talk about her latest role as an out of control fashion designer in "Drop Dead Diva".
Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Do May/December romances work? One such relationship that has been working for the past two years is the one between Linda Hogan, Hulk Hogan`s 50-year-old ex-wife and her 21-year-old boyfriend Charlie Hill, who are apparently engaged. Oh.
Here to discuss the pros and cons of these relationships are Claudia Opdenkelder, president of cougarlife.com and Ian Kerner, sex therapist and relationship counselor.
Claudia what`s the appeal for a woman like Linda in dating someone 30 years -- almost 30 years younger than she is? What`s that about?
CLAUDIA OPDENKELDER, PRESIDENT OF COUGARLIFE.COM: Well, I think the appeal for an older woman to date a younger man is obviously because they have this unbelievable zest for life. They can keep up with them. And they have this need to please. They`re always eager to please, always very, very confident and fun and give you that extra boost of energy that you need especially if you have a very busy lifestyle yourself, you need somebody who can keep up with you.
And of course, they are at their sexual prime in their 20s as well as these women in their late 30s and up.
BEHAR: I`m asking you what the appeal is for her to be with a kid really.
OPDENKELDER: The appeal for her is, yes, obviously, I can`t speak for her, but the appeal for her is obviously the fact that she doesn`t have to deal with an older man who is coming with baggage and divorces and maybe children or stepchildren and this guy is bringing her freedom and happiness.
BEHAR: I see. Ian, what`s in it for him? Is he looking for money?
IAN KERNER, RELATIONSHIP COUNSELOR: Well, you know, I think they`ve been dating a couple years right.
BEHAR: Yes.
KERNER: So I think, you know, in any relationship when you`re first dating, it is sort of all about the thrill of infatuation and the rush of hormones so I think that -- I genuinely believe that they`re probably in love. They`re in that can`t keep your hands off of each other stage.
The problem is after two or three years when the hormones aren`t raging and you have to really sit across the table from somebody and make a conversation, that`s when these May/December romances, some of them start to deteriorate and crumble.
OPDENKELDER: I don`t agree with that.
BEHAR: Ok. Why not?
OPDENKELDER: I don`t agree with that. Because I`m in a relationship, I`m almost 40, my boyfriend is 26. We`re 14 years apart. We just bought a house together. We`ve almost been dating two years. It`s the best relationship I`ve ever been in.
So I think it`s very individual. You can`t judge overall.
KERNER: Yes. But there`s a big difference between 15 years and 30 years as well. Are you planning to have children?
BEHAR: You can still have children if he wants to, right Claudia?
KERNER: Exactly. I mean --
OPDENKELDER: What if she doesn`t want children anymore? She already had them.
BEHAR: What if he wants them? He`s 20.
KERNER: Exactly.
BEHAR: She can`t have them anymore, she`s 50. But he can still have children.
KERNER: Yes. I mean everyone -- we always assume that it`s the maternal instinct -- but in men the paternal instinct does come into play. It`s very possible. He`s a 21-year-old guy, that when he hits 30, 35 that he`s going to want a family, he`s going to want kids and he`s going to want that commonality and he`s probably not going to be able to have it.
BEHAR: Right.
OPDENKELDER: Right.
BEHAR: And also the other thing, Claudia, is that these relationships that Dr. Kerner is saying -- I think you`re a doctor, aren`t you?
KERNER: I am.
BEHAR: Yes you are. That they may work for a while but to get married? I mean I don`t know if that works. Is it wise to get married?
OPDENKELDER: We`re planning to get married. Ashton and Demi are married and they work. (INAUDIBLE) and his wife are 14 years apart. They work. I mean isn`t Katie Couric dating someone 17 years younger? Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins -- there are endless amount of relationships that work
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: But Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon were together 20 years and they just split up. They really gave it a shot.
KERNER: We`re also talking about relationships where there`s a 10 to 15 year age difference as opposed to 30-year age gap. So I think that`s a big gap.
OPDENKELDER: I think Ashton and Demi are like 24 years difference.
BEHAR: No, they`re 15 years -- 15 that`s all.
KERNER: I think that May/December relationships absolutely can work. Sometimes they happen for the wrong reasons because they`re opportunistic. But very often they happen for the right reasons. There is a genuine love. Studies have shown that men who marry younger woman often end up living older and living longer and feeling good about their lives and their relationships.
Interestingly, there was a study though that showed that women when they`re marrying much younger guys do not live as long. They die sooner.
BEHAR: The women do.
OPDENKELDER: Yes.
BEHAR: Why is that?
OPDENKELDER: That`s crazy.
KERNER: I think it has a lot to do with the stress of the relationship.
OPDENKELDER: I don`t know. I don`t believe in that.
BEHAR: You don`t believe in that? It`s a study.
OPDENKELDER: There is no stress. There`s no stress whatsoever.
(CROSS TALKING)
KERNER: How can you say that a relationship doesn`t have stress?
BEHAR: Listen, when Linda is 70, he`ll be 40, then we`ll see how much -- how thrilled he is with it. You know what I mean?
KERNER: I agree.
BEHAR: Then it`s a little problematic.
Now Hulk, her husband, 56, is reportedly engaged to his much younger girlfriend who is 36 years old. Are they trying -- are they competing with each other or what? What`s going on there?
KERNER: Yes, I don`t know if they are competing with each other or they`re certainly going after similar types of people. I think that they`re both --
OPDENKELDER: I hope they`re not.
KERNER: I think they`re both trying to sow their wild oats.
OPDENKELDER: There are people`s feelings involved.
BEHAR: Hulk was on our show last year.
KERNER: Yes.
BEHAR: And he was open about how bothered he was by Linda dating a younger guy. Look at this. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HULK HOGAN, PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER: All of a sudden all your friends and your family and everybody there is telling you that there`s a young kid driving your cars and your motorcycles and your boats and sleeping in your bed with your wife. It does something to you when you`re a man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I think he`s ticked off that the guy is young.
KERNER: Yes. He`s young. She`s also riding around in --
OPDENKELDER: It`s obviously an ego issue.
BEHAR: Hold on.
KERNER: She`s also riding around in a boat that says Ali-Money.
BEHAR: Alimony?
KERNER: Ali-money. That would piss me off too.
BEHAR: That`s kind of funny, isn`t it.
KERNER: It`s funny but you can see why he`s pissed off.
BEHAR: Yes. Because it`s his ali-money.
OPDENKELDER: But don`t you think he would be upset either way whether she`s dating someone younger or older. Either way he`s not happy about it. And I think the younger guy just makes it more of an ego thing.
KERNER: The interesting thing is going to be when they all get together for Thanksgiving and the kids are there.
BEHAR: Well, there is that.
KERNER: And that they all have to have a conversation. The big thing how many second marriages end up getting ruined by the kids because there`s usually adult children who in some way don`t agree with the relationship. So that`s the thing. Regardless of who they`re with, they`re both going to have to come to peace with the kids and get the kids on board with this.
BEHAR: It`s true. Linda`s kids are the same age as the man who will become their stepfather.
KERNER: They`re older.
BEHAR: Brooke is 22, Nick is 20. They`re around the same.
KERNER: They all went to high school together.
BEHAR: And Brooke, I guess that`s the girl, all right -- she has been totally freaked out by this.
What do you say to that, Claudia? What about these kids who are freaked out by this craziness?
OPDENKELDER: I fully understand that and I can see that. But at the end of the day if your mom is happy and finally found happiness, then you`ve got to try to find a way to deal with that and cope with that.
I think with any relationship, there`s going to be judgment no matter what, whether it`s different races or different backgrounds or cultures or different ages.
And I think it`s unfair that the older men dating the younger women nobody really bats an eye at it anymore and it`s the women that are getting all the flack. It`s the women who are making this big news and everybody is talking about it.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks very much, guys, for your insights.
Up next, ESPN reporter and stalking victim Erin Andrews was in D.C. today lobbying for tougher anti-stalking laws. I will have an update.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: ESPN sports reporter and former "Dancing with the Stars" contestant Erin Andrews was secretly videotaped changing clothes through a hotel peephole last year. As a result of that traumatic experience, she was in Washington today speaking out on behalf of a new bill that calls for tougher stalking laws. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN ANDREWS, ESPN SPORTSCASTER: There have been times over the past year that I have screamed, I have cried, I have said to my family, why me? Why is this happening to me?
And the senator mentioned it doesn`t just happen to people that are in the limelight. It mostly happens to just people that are trying to live their everyday life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Joining me now to speak about a new stalking bill is one of its sponsors, California congresswoman Loretta Sanchez. Loretta -- Congresswoman Sanchez, tell me about this stalkers bill you`re co- sponsoring. What is it?
REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: I actually authored the bill. It is going to be passed in the House of Representatives today.
And it does several things. One of the things it does is that it brings down the threshold a little on how law enforcement can go after a stalker who is creating emotional duress on the victim. Sometimes in the current law it`s very difficult. You have to really take a look at over time what a stalker is doing to you before we can show that duress. And sometimes that`s too late. So that`s one of the things it would do.
Secondly, it gives more tools to the prosecution. In other words, the law includes things that weren`t in there before like the Internet, videotaping, like what happened to Erin, so that`s important.
And lastly, it makes us at the federal level do a best practices paper every year that we can share with local communities, law enforcement at the state level also because usually they are the ones that are going after the people who are perpetrating stalking on people, not the federal government. You know, some of them won`t call the FBI. They call their local police people.
BEHAR: So those are the things that are wrong with the current laws that you`re going to be changing, yes?
SANCHEZ: That`s correct. That`s correct. In particular, the technology. When the first stalker bill was done, we didn`t have any of this new technology.
BEHAR: Right.
SANCHEZ: One out of every four stalkers uses technology to stalk their people.
BEHAR: Well, I was talking the other day about twittering and how difficult that has become. I mean, somebody can tweet to another person I saw Loretta Sanchez having coffee in this particular coffee shop. And then whoever is interested in stalking you knows exactly where to get you at that moment.
SANCHEZ: Absolutely.
BEHAR: That`s a very dangerous thing, I think.
SANCHEZ: It`s incredibly dangerous -- it`s dangerous, you know, when you go into your g-mail account or some account and someone then e-mails you on your Blackberry, I see that you`re in your e-mail account. It`s almost like because we`re using technology to talk to each other, to look on the web, to call, et cetera, because these pieces of technology almost have global positioning on them also, by the way, because people can tell you`re in a particular place, now people can stalk even easier. We`ve got to stop that.
BEHAR: Well, good. I`m glad that you`re on the case, Congresswoman. Thanks very much.
SANCHEZ: Thanks, Joy. Thanks a lot.
BEHAR: Ok.
The legendary Zsa Zsa Gabor is in the hospital after breaking her hip. I`ll speak to her husband for an update on her health, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Hollywood icon Zsa Zsa Gabor is reportedly in critical condition after hip replacement surgery a week ago. Here with me for an update on how she`s doing is her eighth husband Prince Frederic Von Anhalt. I say eighth husband, you know, because Zsa Zsa`s kind of famous for all those husbands. But how is she doing?
PRINCE FREDERIC VON ANHALT, ZSA ZSA GABOR`S HUSBAND: Well not so good lately. You know she had the accident on Saturday and huge operation on Monday. So she`s not doing so good.
BEHAR: No? But you said she`s in critical condition, but her daughter says her condition is guarded. So why would she say that?
ANHALT: Well, I don`t know what guarded means really, but unfortunately she doesn`t have any information, the medical information is between me and the doctors, and anybody else has only hearsay information.
BEHAR: Mm-hmm. I must say --
ANHALT: So listen, I`m married to my wife since 24 years. I know every inch of her. I know exactly how she behaves. I know exactly how she is, as she was before, and how she is now. Unfortunately, she had stroke eight years ago and because of that stroke, her recovery is very, very slow.
BEHAR: Is she speaking? Is she able to talk?
ANHALT: She is speaking. She talks to me. The first thing she says, you know, she says help me, help me. Unfortunately, I can`t do anything. I`m not a doctor. But she is speaking slowly, and she didn`t eat. Yesterday she started eating a little bit, drinking a little water. But that doesn`t mean anything. You know, yesterday, it was a little better and I told her probably we`re going to get out on Thursday or Friday, and this morning I talked to the doctor, well, they say maybe on the weekend, but we don`t know yet. It goes day by day.
BEHAR: Now I understand this all happened after she fell watching "JEOPARDY." she`s 93 years old now. Is she still good at "JEOPARDY"?
ANHALT: Yes, we are married now since 24 years. And we watch "JEOPARDY" every night. And she`s watching it. As a matter of fact, she`s watching your show, too, at 10:00. So yes she`s watching "JEOPARDY" and she loves it. She`s mentally very good in shape.
BEHAR: Yes.
ANHALT: She`s at least 75 percent to 80 percent mental until shape. That`s very good for her age, you know?
BEHAR: That`s right.
ANHALT: Yes she`s very sharp, you know. And unfortunately, now she is very slow. She talked and hopefully she`s going to recover, you know. I hope she`s going to be like she was before.
BEHAR: I must say -- it`s fun to watch -- to see her again in those pictures that we`re showing right now. You know? It brought me back to the old days when she used to be on Merv Griffin and the other shows and she was very funny and very entertaining.
ANHALT: The old days. You`re not that old. You`re not that old. We love you and your show. You`re not that old.
BEHAR: I was in utero at the time and I used to watch. Given your wife`s health, I will ask you this, will this affect your candidacy for the governor of California? I know you`re running for the governorship there. You have the same accent as Arnold. So it shouldn`t be too hard to run up against him.
ANHALT: Yes, yes. Right now I can`t do anything, you know, because of the condition of my wife.
BEHAR: Yes.
ANHALT: My wife comes first. And so I stop everything for the next few years -- for the next few weeks and see how she`s recovering. If she doesn`t recover the way I like it or the way she should recover, then I`m not going to run, but if she recovers, I`ll continue doing it.
BEHAR: Oh, good luck to you.
ANHALT: It goes very long. This is how women are, they moan a little longer, they complain a little longer, everything goes a little longer with women.
BEHAR: And they live a little longer, that`s right, well, thank you very much for bringing us up to date.
ANHALT: Yes and they shop a little longer.
BEHAR: Yes and they shop. Tell Zsa Zsa we send her our best, OK.
ANHALT: Thank you very much.
BEHAR: Thanks very much.
ANHALT: She will love that, thank you.
BEHAR: OK, let`s move on to a different story. According to "In Touch Weekly" Kate Gosselin, camera crew in tow, is up in Alaska with Sarah Palin. You know what they say, keep your friends close and your enemies in Wasilla. With me now is discuss this and more is Jimmy Tingle, comedian, and Lisa Ann Walter, comedian, actress and creator of oxygen`s "Dance Your Ass Off" and Noah Levy, senior editor of "In Touch Weekly." Noah, all right what`s this about with Sarah and Kate?
NOAH LEVY, IN TOUCH WEEKLY: All right here`s the thing -
BEHAR: Yes.
LEVY: They`re businesswoman, they`re both working on their own reality shows. Sarah Palin`s on Discovery, Kate Gosselin owned by TLC, you know, they are owned by the same person.
BEHAR: Ah hah.
LEVY: So they are working on their own show and I really think, you know, these two women are going to be sitting by a campfire together braiding each other`s hair and talking to Bristol Palin about birth control. BEHAR: Too late. Too late. But do you really think, you guys, maybe Lisa, do you think that Sarah really wants to hang out with her or is this a put-up job?
LISA ANN WALTER, ACTRESS: Well even if it is -- and I actually just talked to my friends over at Discovery and TLC right before I came up here, Joy, just because I like to get the due diligence before I come talk to you.
BEHAR: Yes, OK, good. You should.
WALTER: I like to you know like a good Sicilian, I like to get the dirt.
BEHAR: OK.
WALTER: But they planned it, absolutely. Yes, they`re both moms. They both have a broad fan base. Because let`s face it, you saw Kate on "DANCING WITH THE STARS" she danced like she was in a full body cast.
BEHAR: It was terrible. Like she was walking on land mines.
WALTER: Exactly covered with broken eggs and scary monsters. Her partner was my teacher on "SHALL WE DANCE," if she can`t look good with him, there`s no hope.
BEHAR: Well they`re both ratings getters. I mean I can see the point.
WALTER: You know that may be the way we elect presidents in the future. Is just reality television programming.
BEHAR: Oh please don`t say that.
WALTER: It could be, Joy. It is around the corner.
BEHAR: Like my mother used to say, I hope I`m dead by Christmas. So positive. Now, Jimmy, do you think that appearing with Kate Gosselin enhances or detracts from Sarah Palin`s image?
JIMMY TINGLE, COMEDIAN: It is going to enhance her image. Because she`s going to be able to - not only show her Alaska but show her Russia. And I think --
BEHAR: So it`s an educational tool.
TINGLE: It`s a cultural thing. And plus her brother and her father, Sarah`s father is a science teacher and her brother is a history teacher. They`ll actually be teaching the kids science and history.
BEHAR: Yes they`re teaching natural history lessons from Palin`s --
TINGLE: That would be interesting -- life started in the Garden of Eden, evolution is a liberal plot, and global warming is a hoax by the Democrats to raise taxes.
BEHAR: You think they`ll go hunting together?
WALTER: I would hope so. And maybe bring back some nice furs and cover the little babies and they`ll gnaw on elk bones.
BEHAR: But you know, do you think if Sarah would run, there`s a little rumblings that she would run for president. Do you think that you know Kate Gosselin could be on the ticket? Keeping in line with the GOP`s habit of putting unqualified people up for president and vice president, why not Kate Gosselin?
LEVY: Listen, she`s going to be running for vice president. She`s going to be on QVC, she`s going to be everywhere.
WALTER: Simultaneously -
LEVY: Yes at the same time -
WALTER: We thought it up before we elected the Governator in California.
BEHAR: That`s right.
WALTER: And I remember when he ran, ways in Canada, and I swore I`d stay there. And I was doing a movie with Richard Gere. And he said it will never happen. And I said watch.
BEHAR: He said Arnold Schwarzenegger -
WALTER: I said Arnold Schwarzenegger will get elected because people will think, of course, he can do anything. He`s the terminator. No, he`s an actor.
BEHAR: Well it`s California, you can understand it. But Ronald Reagan, America, I mean that really was a shock.
TINGLE: That`s right. It is a political move, actually. Because you have Palin`s five kids, Kate`s eight kids, they`re going camping, in the Republican spirit, a big tent.
BEHAR: Right, OK, OK, here`s another story. New York governor David Paterson says he doesn`t have time to watch "JERSEY SHORE." he made the bold statement after neighboring New Jersey governor Chris Christie disparaged the show`s cast and said most of them are really New Yorkers. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHRISTIE: What it does is takes a bunch of New Yorkers, who most of the people are on "JERSEY SHORE" are new Yorkers. Drops them at the Jersey Shore and tries to make America feel like this is New Jersey. I can tell people, they want to know what New Jersey really is, I welcome them to come to New Jersey any time. The Jersey Shore is a beautiful place and some place that everybody should come on vacation this summer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK he really went after New York. What about that?
WALTER: That`s so crazy. Look, these are my people.
BEHAR: New Yorkers.
WALTER: We are like from Staten Island.
BEHAR: Who, the Jersey Shore kids?
WALTER: I am a - of a - oh yes, them, too.
BEHAR: Oh, that group. Do not put me in that category.
WALTER: I`m not saying -
BEHAR: I`m not hearing it.
LEVY: Joy does not like that.
WALTER: I lived in summit, I lived in beautiful part of New Jersey, but it is also Elizabeth where you drive through and everybody says, who did that? Was that you? You know.
BEHAR: Right they blame Elizabeth. Yes, I know.
WALTER: It`s all those things. It`s all those things, it`s America, it`s a beautiful garden state and it smells like Elizabeth. So what? That`s Jersey Shore. What`s wrong with that?
BEHAR: But you know what, he said that the show makes New Jersey look stupid.
TINGLE: That`s impossible.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Let me just say, if he keeps cutting the education budget, they`re really going to be stupid in New Jersey. So you know what? Maybe he should take a look at that.
TINGLE: Well Paterson is saying the reason he doesn`t watch the show is because he doesn`t have time, he`s trying to balance the budget and cut the budget gap. And I was thinking of a few ideas. Number one, move the toll booth from the middle of New York to the perimeter of New York. Only charge people coming from New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts. You want to come to New York? There`s a cover charge, $8 to get in and enjoy yourself. You want to leave? Ten bucks.
WALTER: Funny.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEVY: You know the interesting thing is with Paterson, he`s at home, I know for a fact, once a week with all his guy friends and they`re watching "THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF NEW YORK." You know, I don`t really understand, he loves Jill Zarin. He does, he does.
WALTER: And what about - in New York? That`s only a part of it too. Look, half the people down the Shore are not just people from Jersey.
BEHAR: Of course not.
LEVY: That`s right.
WALTER: That`s so silly.
BEHAR: It`s Bruce Springsteen country also, which you know --
WALTER: Thank you very much.
BEHAR: High level.
TINGLE: I have a prediction. Snooki is going to get a really conservative boyfriend that will make her wear a burqa to the beach.
BEHAR: It just so happen -
WALTER: But the poof will show through.
BEHAR: It just so happen, she doesn`t want to wear a bikini. She only wants a one-piece bathing suit. So we were thinking, there she is in her one piece. Look, she`s hardly wearing it as it is. You know here she is in a burkini. We came up with that, just to show you what she would look like if she really covered up. She says she doesn`t want people to see everything. She wants men to like fantasize about what`s underneath there.
(CROSSTALK)
LEVY: Yes fantasize what`s in her brain. The real reason is she wants them to look at her hair, not at her boobs.
BEHAR: Exactly.
LEVY: She wants to cover everything up.
BEHAR: Thanks every one. Catch Lisa Ann Walter at Caroline`s in New York tomorrow night. And her show "DANCE YOUR ASS OFF" airs Monday night at 10:00 on Oxygen. And you can see the very funny Jimmy Tingle`s one-man show Tingle all summer in Cape Cod. Well sleep Massachusetts.
TINGLE: The Wet theater.
BEHAR: OK up next, Cybill Shepherd drops by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She makes me out to be mean and abusive. That`s pure fiction.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Legally we have to wait until the book is released, but then we can sue for libel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want you to stop the book before it`s published.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s not how it works. The freedom of speech is the foundation of our country.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop. If you can`t help me, I`ll ask the waiter to put your salmon dijionaise in a doggy bag.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was a look at Cybill Shepherd`s guest starring appearance on Lifetime`s "DROP DEAD DIVA" where she plays a queen of mean.
CYBILL SHEPHERD: The queen.
BEHAR: The fabulous Cybill Shepherd is with me now.
SHEPHERD: Wonderful to be here.
BEHAR: Nice to see you again.
SHEPHERD: The queen.
BEHAR: The queen of mean. Well you played Martha Stewart -
SHEPHERD: I`ve played mean.
BEHAR: And she was kind of a bitch.
SHEPHERD: She was the queen of mean. But we love her, don`t we.
BEHAR: I do love her.
SHEPHERD: I do, I do, honestly.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHEPHERD: She`s like Queen Elizabeth I.
BEHAR: She is and you know she`s just focused.
SHEPHERD: She is, I admire her.
BEHAR: I made papier-mache puppets with her one time. And you know, it`s like you can say to her, I have six months to live and she`s like put more glue on the papier-mache puppet. You know and it`s like, she`s focused. I so love that about her.
SHEPHERD: I admire her. She`s really worked her way up from, you know, nothing really.
BEHAR: You can see by your performance that you admired her.
SHEPHERD: I did very much.
BEHAR: Now, in this thing, though, this show is about a model who`s beautiful and dies and comes back as a fat lawyer.
SHEPHERD: Yes. A fat beautiful lawyer.
BEHAR: A fat beautiful lawyer -
SHEPHERD: Brooke Elliott is very beautiful. She`s not really that fat. She`s gorgeous.
BEHAR: Yes but about the plus sizeness of her that the thing is hanging on.
SHEPHERD: I guess that`s, yes, she`s somewhat horrified. So I love it. I think Brooke Elliott looks divine.
BEHAR: She does. But you know, this country is filled with hatred of women who are over size 12. Do you realize that?
SHEPHERD: Yes, I`ve been there for a long time.
BEHAR: You still look gorgeous.
SHEPHERD: Well, thank you. I think women should be able to -- I don`t think we should have to wear girdles all the time. I remember my grandmother like trying to get that girdle on in the morning. You know and just oh, this is horrible. Then in the evening taking it off and going ah. We`re back in girdles. How did this happen?
BEHAR: I know, they call them spanx now.
SHEPHERD: But what`s wrong with in some jiggle, guys?
BEHAR: It`s against the law, jiggle, especially in Hollywood.
SHEPHERD: I know.
BEHAR: You were an actress for many years in Hollywood, Cybill.
SHEPHERD: I started here in New York as a model in 1968.
BEHAR: What year did you do "The Last Picture Show"?
SHEPHERD: We filmed it in `70. It came out `71.
BEHAR: That was a great film.
SHEPHERD: Thank you.
BEHAR: I think you`re still pretty, but you were at your most beautiful I think in that picture.
SHEPHERD: Thank you.
BEHAR: You were gorgeous. You had a long affair with Bogdanowicz, the director.
SHEPHERD: We lived together for eight years.
BEHAR: Was he fun to live with?
SHEPHERD: Well, he`s a very complicated and wonderful and brilliant man. I think he was first man in my life that ever treated me equally on intellectual, artistic level. And it`s a great relationship that still continues to this day. One of the great friendships of my life. We are very close. I hope we get to work together again.
BEHAR: Wasn`t he a lot older than you?
SHEPHERD: Well he was ten years older, 11 years older.
BEHAR: That was working for you, right?
SHEPHERD: Oh that was absolutely working.
BEHAR: The other thing was he was really terrific in is "THE HEARTBREAK KID." One of my favorites. They did a remake, but it`s not even close in my opinion to the original.
SHEPHERD: Yes it didn`t seem like -- "THE HEARTBREAK KID" was an incredibly movie, holds up brilliantly.
BEHAR: Oh god, it`s such a funny movie.
SHEPHERD: Charles Grodin.
BEHAR: Elaine, the most brilliant.
SHEPHERD: I loved her.
BEHAR: Is it hard to get roles now?
SHEPHERD: Well no, actually, I`m having a very good time of it. However, I have made that transition from being the leading character most of the time to becoming a character actor. And these last two projects I`ve done, the one that was on a week ago last Monday "THE CLIENT LIST" where I play Jennifer Luvhewitt`s mother, which was the second highest rated television movie, this year, thank you very much.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHEPHERD: And also "DROP DEAD DIVA" are two vastly different characters. The one in "THE CLIENT LIST," I`m Texan. And you know, the bigger the hair, the closer to god. So I got some big hair in that.
BEHAR: Do you really?
SHEPHERD: Yes, I do. And it kind of was a throwback to "THE LAST PICTURE SHOW" Ellen Burstyn and Cloris Leachman who won the Oscar for it last pictures show were these incredibly actresses. And so for me "THE CLIENT LIST," I got to play that kind of generation, a little older Texas woman.
BEHAR: In addition to being a terrific actress all these years, you also, you are a person who speaks out. You don`t really hold back politically. I mean, you were in "THE L WORD" also with your daughter Clementine, right?
SHEPHERD: Yes, I was. Yes.
BEHAR: What about gay rights? Do you speak out against gay rights or for gay rights rather?
SHEPHERD: Yes, I believe in equal rights. It started in 1968. I was a senior in high school, at East High School. And someone on the loudspeaker said that classes - you must go home, classes are over for the day. We didn`t know why. And we were walk out through the halls. And it suddenly starts to go around at Martin Luther King has been shot and killed, it was three miles from where I was standing. At that moment I was so filled with shame, guilt, and sorrow that I had never done something for equal rights.
BEHAR: I see.
SHEPHERD: I was born and raised in the segregated south. So that will begin my fight for equal rights and has continued through women`s rights, productive freedom, pro choice and, of course, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, that wonderful community. Marched on Washington three times.
BEHAR: People ask me the question, I`ll ask you. Do you ever get in trouble for your big mouth? Because I do.
SHEPHERD: I did. Yes, actually, once I had this contract to speak to some women in Houston. And the minute they announced that I was on "THE L WORD," they canceled the contract.
BEHAR: What?
SHEPHERD: Yes. But I wouldn`t have done it any differently. I wanted to be in the original "L WORD." And I just -- I wanted to meet the writers but then I -- they changed the character and Pam Greer is you know playing very different kind of character. Of course, she`s wonderful.
BEHAR: Now, the other thing is, they told me, is that you were involved with Elvis Presley in the early `70s, which I thought was fascinating. There was a quote about Elvis, "I did the nasty with Elvis. This man loved to eat but there was one thing he wouldn`t eat until he met me." I`m assuming you didn`t mean vegetables there.
SHEPHERD: I hope my mom doesn`t stay awake for this tonight.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Well it is only on at 9:00.
SHEPHERD: He said that. And I said, until now.
BEHAR: And when we come back, I want to hear about Robert De Niro, too. I want to hear all the dish about all my faves. He`s one of them. OK so we`ll be back with Cybill Shepherd in just a minute.
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Hello, hello? Stay with us friends, we are speaking justice.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bitch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bastard. Get out. Get out! The night we met I knew I
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was Cybill Shepherd and Bruce Willis doing their thing in the iconic `80s TV series "MOONLIGHTING."
SHEPHERD: Ooh, I got chills. That`s a great scene
BEHAR: Now when you slapped him, did you mean it?
(LAUGHTER)
SHEPHERD: There`s a great love/hate. We had terrific chemistry. We fought before every fight scene.
BEHAR: Yes, real fights like with each other as actors.
SHEPHERD: Oh yes, picking fights.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes.
SHEPHERD: That`s what gave the real heat to the scenes.
BEHAR: But that was real. That wasn`t acting really.
SHEPHERD: Well I mean that`s a way of preparing as an actor, to work it up.
BEHAR: I see, he was game?
SHEPHERD: I thought you were going to say he was gay. I was going to say, so not.
BEHAR: He was game.
SHEPHERD: Game.
BEHAR: So you were saying in the break that your daughter Clementine is an out lesbian?
SHEPHERD: Yes. And she`s also a regular on "THE YOUNG & THE RESTLESS," she and my daughter Ariel who just graduated from Yale, they presented to me, I guess about three weeks ago, glad, a national award from G.L.A.D., Golden Gate Award for Advocacy -- National Advocacy for lesbian, gay, and transgender.
BEHAR: That`s nice.
SHEPHERD: And it was a really moving moment for me. Because my sister Terry died I guess about a year and a month ago.
BEHAR: Oh.
SHEPHERD: And she was a lesbian and she had to live in fear her whole life. She could never be out. She had a long-term partner. So it was first time at that award that I got to say how happy I was that I`m sorry for my sister and in her honor, I accepted the award. And then for my daughters that they could be free to be truly who they are and love who they want in life.
BEHAR: First of all, I`m sorry about your sister.
SHEPHERD: Thank you.
BEHAR: She must have been a young woman.
SHEPHERD: Yes, she was very young.
BEHAR: You did "Taxi Driver" with De Niro.
SHEPHERD: Yes, I did.
BEHAR: And I heard that he asked you out and you turned him down.
SHEPHERD: Yes, I blew it.
BEHAR: What happened?
SHEPHERD: Well --
BEHAR: He usually likes black women so you know --
SHEPHERD: Well, it was kind of complicated because I was involved with one person and then there was another person that the other person didn`t know was coming into town, then that all happened when he asked me out. Very complicated. I don`t do that anymore.
BEHAR: But how did he take it?
SHEPHERD: I think he was okay with it. Because I reject him in the movie. I reject him in the movie.
BEHAR: It`s all about the movie.
SHEPHERD: Yes, it`s all about the performance.
BEHAR: Uh huh, OK, listen, you know. Speaking of being outspoken and you`re in Hollywood, what do you think about this whole Mel Gibson thing? Do you have anything to comment on it? We talk about it on this show every night practically. And I notice that Hollywood has clammed up on the topic.
SHEPHERD: Yes. I just don`t have enough information. It`s a tragic situation.
BEHAR: Well you`ve heard the tapes.
SHEPHERD: Well I`ve heard the tapes, but how do we know that these tapes weren`t set up. I just can`t say one way or the other. As I say it`s a tragic situation involving a marriage and a child. And until we really know the full truth, you know, just because a tape comes out. We don`t know where it came from.
BEHAR: Well, it`s probably him. It`s probably him.
SHEPHERD: Do they know it`s him? Well we know it`s him --
BEHAR: And when he says, I`m going to put you in the rose garden.
SHEPHERD: Oh, I know.
BEHAR: You know, it`s a drag.
SHEPHERD: It`s a real drag.
BEHAR: OK, thanks very much for coming here tonight, Cybill.
SHEPHERD: And we`re going out on that note?
BEHAR: That`s all right. That`s this show. We do whatever.
SHEPHERD: Oh my son will graduate from the University of Pennsylvania next year.
BEHAR: Oh well congratulations.
SHEPHERD: I`ve got all the kids in. Hi, mom. Hope you didn`t see this interview.
BEHAR: -- are actors, they are smart, you can catch Cybill appearing on this Sunday`s episode of "DROP DEAD DIVA" on Lifetime. Good night, everybody.
END
