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Joy Behar Page
New Mel Rants; Designer Babies; Al Gore Questioned by Police
Aired July 28, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Tonight, a new Mel Gibson tape has surfaced and it`s much like his earlier work; a nice (INAUDIBLE) profane romp that foreshadows a man`s nervous breakdown. I give it four stars.
Then President Obama drops by "The View" tomorrow. We`ll tackle the pressing issues with him: the economy and the oil spill and of course, Snooki`s decision to go with a one-piece.
A new Web site hooks up couples with only the most attractive sperm and egg donors. So if you`re worried you`re your baby`s going to look more like Paul Giammati than Paul Newman, you`ve come to the right place.
That and more right now.
TMZ is reporting that an argument during a placenta-burying ceremony - - you heard that -- may be the cause of Mel Gibson`s rantings. Imagine, all this time we thought Mel had issues with blacks, Jews and gays. It turns out he just doesn`t like gardening.
Listen to the latest rant on tape from RadarOnline.com.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re a sour-faced (EXPLETIVE DELETED) today. Do you think it was tricky to get that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in the hole and the placenta and organize all that (EXPLETIVE DELETED)? You know how much (EXPLETIVE DELETED) time and money went into that?
Did you thank me? Did you even have a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) smile on your face? (EXPLETIVE DELETED) no. You really are a shallow (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Everything about you stinks. And I`m saying it real loud and clear. (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was that translated from the original Aramaic?
Must have been.
With me now is David Caplan, senior editor at "People" magazine. So what exactly is the placenta story? Are they growing placentas? What are they doing?
DAVID CAPLAN, SENIOR EDITOR, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINEZ: Supposedly the way it goes out in Australia or parts of Australia, it`s actually a common practice. They bury the placenta of their baby. Mel Gibson was trying to keep that tradition alive by burying a tree as a sign (ph) to Lucia`s fir tree they are burying the placenta there.
And the story goes actually is that Lucia was there as is Mel during the ceremony and Lucia smiled at one of the gardeners, one of the maintenance workers who was working on the ground. He made a comment -- that really irked Mel.
And that really was what prompted -- one of the reasons that prompted that insane tirade in this phone call because he got a little bit jealous or doesn`t want her talking to other guys.
BEHAR: I know. I know. He`s very jealous. That`s part of the problem here.
But it`s a weird kind of thing to do. Anyway he reportedly made 30 terrorizing phone calls to Oksana that day. What else is in the latest recording?
CAPLAN: And in this recording which is I think about the eighth recording we`ve seen. Again he goes into her and calls Oksana -- the mother of his daughter -- weak, disloyal, a slut. All sorts of words; it just goes on and on but the thrust is really that placenta thing. You see the jealousy.
And he also taunts Oksana, calling her at 2:00, 3:00 in the morning saying, hey, are you leaving messages; hey are you awake? I`m awake. You should be awake. So really just making her life really unpleasant.
BEHAR: Right. Now "People" also says that -- "People" magazine says that Mel asks for an independent observer to accompany him on his visits with the daughter. Why does he want somebody -- and who`s an independent observer in Hollywood? They`re mostly either black, Jewish or gay, right? Who`s left?
CAPLAN: I know. Not many people are left. But Mel has asked for an independent observer from the court, some that the courts do approve because a source tells "People" he wants to do this to essentially sort of get ahead of any claims or new claims that Oksana or her team make saying he`s a bad father, he`s negligent.
His way to say like hey, I`ve got an independent observer and here she said everything is all good.
BEHAR: Ok. You also heard that Mel and Oksana are going to co- parenting classes.
CAPLAN: Yes, absolutely. A lawyer tells "People" that as part of their custody battle which is being played behind closed doors, we can`t see it. That they likely are both going to be sent to co-parenting classes where they`re going to learn to basically co-parent -- you know, how to deal with each other and balance visitation and just sort of calm things out a little bit.
BEHAR: He`ll probably lose his temper and then she`ll have another witness. Oksana`s publicist reportedly quit. Is this a sign the tide is turning against Oksana or is it -- money issues, she can`t afford it? What happened?
CAPLAN: We actually spoke to the publicist and he is -- the publicist is actually going to be in the consulting world, he`s saying he won`t be her day-to-day publicist anymore and she is looking for someone new to sort of field those daily phone calls. And just really, it`s become a really -- it`s snow-balled to a huge thing and she needs a really strong group of people around her.
BEHAR: Right.
CAPLAN: She`s looking. She`s on the market.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks David.
CAPLAN: Thanks a lot.
BEHAR: All right. Now I want to bring my panel in: Joe Levy, editor- in-chief for "Maxim"; Ana Marie Cox, Washington correspondent for "GQ" magazine; and Paul Provenza, comedian and host of the "Green Room" on Show Time.
Paul what do you make of this placenta story?
PAUL PROVENZA, HOST, "THE GREEN ROOM": Well, I think the reason he was probably most upset is that -- I don`t know if you know this but Mel Gibson actually eats human placentas. That`s actually how he stays -- like a vampire thing.
I don`t know. All I can say is --
BEHAR: Do you know anything -- first of all, do you guys know anything about this --
JOE LEVY, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "MAXIM": It`s very nourishing for the skin. I understand. The placenta is very nourishing for the skin.
(CROSS TALKING)
LEVY: I think it`s an aboriginal tradition. I also believe -- I`m surprised the guy from "People" didn`t mention this -- I believe Matthew McConaughey buried -- no I`m completely serious -- buried the placenta under a tree. But it`s just some sort of tradition to commemorate the birth.
BEHAR: Why? Is he Australian?
LEVY: No, no, no. I think he just --
ANA MARIE COX, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, "GQ": He just likes burying a placenta.
BEHAR: It`s a Latin thing.
PROVENZAZ: It`s no odder than any other sort of ritual around death, you know?
COX: If you could count this as pro-life between insulting Jews, blacks, women and homosexuals, he`s really putting together a strong Republican Party platform. So I think that we should look an Arnold bout - - maybe Mel --
LEVY: He`s going to protect the rights of the unborn and the afterbirth. So he`s getting them before and after. It`s great.
BEHAR: That`s right. This is very good.
PROVENZA: He`s very Catholic. I just want to say that it`s really important to remember that a phone call like that is generally like $3.99 a minute. So, you know --
LEVY: You know, for most of America, an unlimited calling plan is a good idea; for Mel Gibson, a very bad idea.
BEHAR: Ok, now what about this idea that when he sees the kid, he takes an independent observer with him? He`s protecting himself?
COX: Well, he has more faith in himself than, I guess, most of us do. Than most of us have in him. I predict, like you, that Oksana is just going to get like another witness. But maybe it`s the phone that does something to him. Maybe if they keep the phone out of the picture.
PROVENZA: Honestly, it seems to me like a lot of the childhoods of the people I know have had. This bizarre relationship --
LEVY: I just want to be in these co-parenting classes. I want to get to the co-parenting class on baby`s first F word. That`s going to be great because Mel`s going to shine. He`s going to do really well.
BEHAR: He`s a role model for that.
PROVENZA: I believe there`s the little Golden Book, "Your First Racial Slur".
BEHAR: You know --
COX: And there`s the placenta also, I think, is another --
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: We`ve been covering this story. We just can`t get enough of it. Every time we play the tapes, everybody cracks up laughing because it`s so crazy.
COX: Although it`s really horrifying, we have to say.
BEHAR: I know. It`s both.
COX: Does it take two parents to really screw up a child this badly? Usually one can get it done.
LEVY: Am I the only one who gets a little turned on though? When I hear those tapes, you know. He`s making with the F word and breathing heavy? I get a little --
BEHAR: Oh, stop it.
PROVENZA: I told you, $3.99 a minute.
BEHAR: His side has not responded at all.
PROVENZA: What do you say to something like this? What do you say? Really, what do you say?
BEHAR: I don`t know. I don`t know. What would you say?
PROVENZA: I think all he can say --
COX: Besides "F you" -- like I mean, like it really this could get worse if he responded. I mean apparently he has an anger issue. I mean engaging the public would be --
BEHAR: He must be fuming though. He must be seething. I`m sure he hates my show, for example, because we do it a lot. Well, too bad about him.
COX: The Mel Gibson demographic.
(CROSS TALKING)
PROVENZA: If you`re looking for a victim of any joke right now, Mel`s the go-to guy.
BEHAR: Yes, he is the go-to guy.
Let`s move on to another story. During a concert in Tucson, Arizona, Elton John slammed the artists who are boycotting Arizona over its controversial immigration law. Of course, he didn`t say it in Spanish so no one knew what he was talking about.
He said -- this is what he said.
PROVENZA: How come he wasn`t deported? He`s foreign.
BEHAR: Thank you. But he`s a rich immigrant.
PROVENZA: There you go.
BEHAR: "I`ve read that some of the artists won`t come here," he wrote. "They are (EXPLETIVE DELETED) wits," he made this word up, I guess. "Let`s face it, I still play", he says, I still play in California. And as a gay man, I have no legal rights whatsoever. So what`s the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) with these people?"
It`s not even English. He`s supposed to be English.
Ok, now today, you should know, a judge blocked the controversial part of the immigration law that says that they can`t just stop you willy-nilly because the federal government got involved.
So what do you think about all that.
COX: Well, as a good progressive, I know it`s crazy. I`m actually, I`m kind of on Elton`s corner on this. There`s actually a group of independent Arizona musicians, who sort of kind of have -- not really rival but it`s sort of a different movement trying to get more independent artist to come to Arizona. The Bank Calexico is spear-heading it.
Their argument is that, for one, the law is not going to be enforced in the most dramatic way it can be. Two, these are -- the music industry is not having a very good time of it as it is. The independent artists and the people that support them, you`re kind taking food out of their mouth by seeing this band.
Once more, these kinds of laws are popping up everywhere. If the strategy is to boycott every place that has an anti-immigrant law you`re going to run out of places to play.
PROVENZA: Here`s the interesting thing though. That he likened to -- he said, I still go and I play in California even though as a gay man, I`m a minority and there`s a lot of prejudice against me. I don`t have civil rights.
BEHAR: He can`t get married there.
PROVENZA: Yet he also did go and played at Rush Limbaugh`s wedding.
LEVY: Where he also can`t get married.
PROVENZA: Where he also can`t get married -- but he can hang around the honeymoon. The point is, he`s just making excuses. Because if he had any personal integrity and goes, I work in California even though the gay issue is there and that really is an issue for him, why would he choose to play at Rush Limbaugh`s wedding of all people?
BEHAR: $1 million.
PROVENZA: Exactly.
BEHAR: But he has money. He really didn`t need that.
PROVENZA: Exactly.
BEHAR: But you know, here`s the thing. He said basically artists are above controversy in a certain way. Artists should go and just play their music and they shouldn`t get involved in these things.
I happen to disagree with that. I think that --
PROVENZA: Because you are a satirista.
BEHAR: No, but the function of the artist basically is to put a light in a mirror to show you what you are.
PROVENZA: Exactly. The least he could have done --
(CROSS TALKING)
PROVENZA: He should have done some Latin music.
BEHAR: Yes, right. What do you think, Joe?
LEVY: You know, honestly, I don`t care.
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: Just care for the world.
LEVY: I think Elton`s a little confused here. I think there`s a big difference between not being able to get legally married and someone walking up to you and deporting you because of the way you look or threatening you with deportation. But Elton shoots -- what I mean to say - - Elton shoots his mouth off all the time. You have to not pay attention to what he says. Pay more attention to what he does. You know.
COX: Which is mainly collect paychecks.
LEVY: Mainly collect paychecks and wear some bad hair.
BEHAR: Ok. All right guys. Thanks very much.
"The Green Room" with Paul Provenza is on at Thursdays at 10:00 p.m. on Show Time, so check it out.
And a quick note, my interview with the president on my other show is tomorrow morning. So watch this show tomorrow night for all the gossip and inside info.
Up next, a Web site matches beautiful people`s sperm and eggs with prospective parents. I`ll speak to the site`s founder and look at the designer baby craze.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Every parent wants a beautiful baby. What if you could increase your chances of having a good-looking kid? Beautifulpeople.com, an extremely selective dating Web site is now offering a fertility forum that hooks up attractive sperm and egg donors with prospective parents. Hey, I`ve got two eggs left boys, let the bidding begin.
With me now to discuss are Greg Hodge, U.S. managing director of beautifulpeople.com and Arthur Caplan, director, Center for Bioethics, University of Pennsylvania.
Greg, let`s start with you.
GREG HODGE, U.S. MANAGING DIRECTOR, BEAUTIFULPEOPLE.COM: Hi, Joy.
BEHAR: Hi. How did the idea for the fertility forum come about?
HODGE: Beautiful People is the largest community in the world of attractive people and it`s based on one fundamental principle of human nature and that we all at least initially want to be with someone we find attractive.
Since going global in 2009, we`ve been receiving numerous requests from fertility clinics wanting to advertise on our site and trying to secure our members` donations. We were very surprised by this, a little taken aback but after looking into it more close, we realized two things.
One, there is a global shortage of sperm and egg donors, in part, due to failed government legislation in many markets around the world. And number two, one of the strongest prerequisites that recipients want in their donors is attractiveness.
BEHAR: What`s so strong with just average anyway, Greg? Or ugly even? Does that leave Einstein out? If he were here today, you wouldn`t take his sperm or this place that takes the sperm wouldn`t take it?
HODGE: We`re certainly not trying to corner the market on beauty. We certainly encourage Mensa to open their database of bright and brilliant people. Look, Joy, I think that the fundamentals here are if you have a child, you`re going to -- advantaged or disadvantaged, parents are going to love their child and look after it regardless. They`ll move heaven and earth for that. That`s rooted in our very instinctive nature, that of survival.
But in the same respect, if you`re a single woman or a couple unable to conceive a child, you`re going to want to secure every advantage for that child as well. Like it or not, attractiveness is an advantage in our day and age.
BEHAR: It is. But it doesn`t necessarily mean that they`re attractive and smart. Sometimes you have to pick.
HODGE: No. But let`s -- we can`t be that general. That`s like saying all ugly people are rocket scientists and wonderfully charming and quite brilliant. Unfortunately, the world doesn`t work like that.
BEHAR: Yes, well. Art, let me ask you something. Is picking donors on looks alone really that shallow? Or are these parents just being honest about what they want?
ARTHUR CAPLAN, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR BIOETHICS, UNIV. OF PENN.: I think they may be being honest about what they want. I think it`s going to win a lot of points on the shallowness scale. I think at the end of the day, you might initially meet people and say, how do they look? I have no doubt that we`re capable of that level of shallowness. But I think people want ultimately to get a smart, athletic, healthy, kid.
When I talk to parents really who are about to have a kid. You know what they say? Healthy, healthy, healthy.
BEHAR: And they always count the toes and count the figures. You want the children to be healthy mainly. That`s it.
Also, you know something, Greg, looks can be overrated. Two words, Dan Quayle. Dan Quayle, ok? Ok, I`m sorry, Art. Go ahead.
A. CAPLAN: I was going to say one other thing. You might look at Greg`s thing and say, well, if they want good-looking and have good-looking donors they`ll produce good-looking kids. Anybody looked at their family members lately?
BEHAR: Exactly.
A. CAPLAN: I mean the same genes and the same combinations do not produce --
BEHAR: I`ll let you jump in. Go ahead Greg.
HODGE: With all due respect to your esteemed guest, Joy, look, of course, we`ve all been to people`s houses, beautiful couples who have had a child and left and done, damn, that skipped a generation. We say that behind closed doors.
But let`s look at this honestly. If we had -- as a parent to be, if we had a choice between a genetic donation from say, Brad Pitt or Shrek, we`re certainly going to play the odds and roll with the Pitts.
BEHAR: A cartoon figure? Why did you pick Shrek? It`s a cartoon figure?
A. CAPLAN: You might play that, but I would submit, you`re having a contest between who`s got the best fashion, who`s got the most money and who`s got the best plastic surgeon. Moreover, you want to set -- you want a kid for models? How about the association with bulimia and anorexia or depression?
Playing this card is just silliness in terms of the genetics of beauty. It doesn`t work that way. You have to know that.
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: Wait a minute, Greg. It has a little bit of a scent of eugenics, which we saw in Nazi Germany. It does have that weird feel.
HODGE: Joy, let me say that that`s ridiculous.
BEHAR: Hey, it`s my show.
HODGE: Anyone can apply to Beautiful People, regardless of race, color, creed, religion. We`re in 190 countries around the world. We represent every single ethnicity. I think people are trying to see the devil in the painting. I can assure you, there is none.
And what`s happening with all this screaming -- everyone on their moral high horse and screaming ethics from the sideline is the important people. The single women, the couples unable to conceive children that are on waiting lists for two years. Our members have come forward. It`s a deeply emotive, generous, charitable gift. It`s the gift of life and health. If a beautiful family is created from it, then it is as it should be.
A. CAPLAN: And that`s great. It`s great. It just sits completely on bogus science. Beauty is not inherited that way. I`m going to come back and say it again. Check out a family that both has beautiful people as parents. Look at the tiny differences that determine beauty from that --
BEHAR: They could look like the ugly uncle, is what he`s saying. And what if the kid -- what if the kid turns out ugly, can you return the kid?
HODGE: Like I said, the beauty in Mother Nature is that we`re going to love our child regardless --
BEHAR: Ok. All right. Thank you guys
We`ll be back in a minute.
HODGE: Thank you very much.
BEHAR: Ok.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: With me to talk about the trend of designer babies is "Millionaire Matchmaker" Patti Stanger. Hey Patti, what is the obsession with not only good-looking people wanting to hook up with each other, but also because there are sites like that -- but also to have designer babies, beautiful babies only?
PATTI STANGER, "MILLIONAIRE MATCHMAKER": Well, it`s pro-creating, like the Aryan race. You want to look perfect all the time, not age. So should your children. Who wants an ugly baby?
BEHAR: Well, nobody does. But you know it`s really a relative thing. If you have a baby with your husband and you`re nice-looking people, nothing gorgeous, you say, what a beautiful baby I have.
STANGER: Even if it`s ugly, like that Seinfeld episode. I mean seriously -- think about it? Sometimes the two pretty people make the ugly baby.
BEHAR: That could happen.
STANGER: It`s scary. The gene pool gets messed up.
BEHAR: Some part of me enjoys that idea.
STANGER: I know. It`s sad. They get the fatty one and they`re both skinny.
BEHAR: It`s like, too bad about you. You wanted them to be beautiful, well, they`re not.
What do you make of these sites where only beautiful people meet other beautiful people?
STANGER: Beautifulpeople.com is kind of scary because they rate you based on your picture. So your picture has got to be amazing, air brush, the whole thing. And if you don`t make the cut, they won`t let you on the site. It`s really scary. It`s a very narcissistic club, so to speak.
BEHAR: People lie all the time on those sites. They lie about their age. They air brush, as you just said. They give themselves hair that they didn`t have.
STANGER: And most likely, they`re not real people. They`re like putting someone else`s picture and pretending that there are -- there`s no screening process to it.
BEHAR: What good is that? Then you go to the lunch and see that the person is (INAUDIBLE) -- then what happens?
Do you know what (INAUDIBLE) is?
STANGER: I don`t know what it is but I can imagine. What is it?
BEHAR: It`s an ugly, ugly face.
STANGER: Ugly face like mine?
BEHAR: So what happens then? You go to have lunch and it`s like, excuse me, it`s Ernest Borgnine?
STANGER: A lot of times they don`t meet. They live on the hiding society where all they do is e-mail like a penthouse service. That`s how they get their rocks off and go like this behind the door.
BEHAR: Oh, I see. It does sort of smell like eugenics to me. I don`t like the way it sounds.
STANGER: It`s going into that cloning where you are going to make the perfect person and never going to have any disease. And they`re going to never grow old, Dorian Gray syndrome, the whole thing.
BEHAR: Do they believe that you can stay beautiful forever and ever?
STANGER: Madonna does.
BEHAR: You think so. How does she do that?
STANGER: She -- I mean that girls is working it. I don`t know what her doctor is. I think she goes to your doctor, Dr. Brandt.
STANGER: She`s like doing everything that --
BEHAR: I don`t know if she does that. I know nothing.
STANGER: Rumor is it`s Dr. Brandt and God bless Madonna because she`s my poster girl -- it`s like those arms, now --
BEHAR: That has nothing to do with the dermatologist.
STANGER: No. It`s probably HGH.
BEHAR: You mean the growth hormone? Why would she take that -- they`re not growing?
STANGER: Because she works out -- she`s a machine. She loves to work out; she wants to be perfect. I can understand that. Aging is not fun. Cher says it all the time. It`s the worst experience in the world. Nobody wants to get that old and that wrinkly and not look attractive.
BEHAR: I know. But there`s an obsession. Chinese don`t feel that way about old people. They revere their old people
STANGER: The Asian don`t age.
BEHAR: Yes, they do. They do. They age. What about wisdom and growing old and being smarter than everybody else?
STANGER: Not in California.
BEHAR: Not in California.
This is a depressing topic. I`d like to thank Dr. Brandt anyway.
STANGER: We love Dr. Brandt.
BEHAR: Catch "Millionaire Matchmaker" Tuesday nights at 10:00 on Bravo. And the new season starts in October.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Oregon Police may still be trying to put the finger on Al Gore. They reportedly questioned him late last week over allegations he sexually assaulted a masseuse in a Portland hotel room in 2006. With me now with the latest in the case is Beth Karas, correspondent from "In Session" on TRUTV. Hi Beth.
BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: Hi Joy.
BEHAR: You know it`s been years since Molly Haggerty first these made the allegations. Now why are the police questioning Gore now.
KARAS: Well you know she first told the police about this two months after it happened, after she says it happened. She reports it in December 2006 and she`s then uncooperative with the police. It`s not clear that the police ever had a chance to speak to Al Gore or whether if they wanted to he was cooperative. The police are very closed-mouthed about their investigation. This may be their first opportunity.
BEHAR: I see. But this case was closed twice before for insufficient evidence. What changed exactly?
KARAS: Well the reports are that the Portland police are saying procedural issues came up you in the last investigation where they closed it. So I don`t know if that procedural issue is before we close it again, let`s talk to everyone because this is becoming a public relations issue. They`re, of course, concerned about the merits of the allegation. They need to put it to rest if it doesn`t have any merit and need to talk to Al Gore in order to be thorough.
BEHAR: Right, it really is a bad thing if it sticks to Al Gore if it`s not true. It`s really you know -- but you this woman, you know, Haggerty, refused to speak to police on several occasions, she failed a lie detector test and the sheet she said contained a semen sane tested negative. So I mean really has no credibility at this point, am I right?
KARAS: You are right. She has real problems with her credibility. Not reporting right away is not unusual. But these other issues compound it. Claiming to have evidence is meritless apparently failing a lie detector tests. But lie detector tests can give false readings. That`s why they are not admissible in court.
BEHAR: I know. But we`re talking about a PR situation too here. So that`s good for Al Gore to know she failed the lie detector test. But the other thing is that according to the National Enquirer, two new accusers have come forward. Two other women.
KARAS: Right, right.
BEHAR: What do they know about these two?
KARAS: Right now these are in 2007 and 2008. And remember these Portland allegations are from 2006. In 2007, this is Los Angeles, Beverly Hills. A swanky hotel where he apparently wanted something more than what the spa services were offering. And then the following year, in Tokyo --
BEHAR: You mean a facial also?
KARAS: Yes. In the following year he comes out in a towel to the woman, drops the towel and points down and says, take care of this.
BEHAR: You know what, all right. You know what? I don`t believe it for some -- it could be true, not be true. But it doesn`t compute for me. It doesn`t match the Al Gore personality we`ve known over the years. Who knows what people are capable of, right?
KARAS: Well you`re absolutely right. The police may be interested in investigating subsequent allegations just to see if there is a pattern here.
BEHAR: Yes.
KARAS: But the 2006 incident is full of problems.
BEHAR: Right OK, thanks very much Beth.
KARAS: My pleasure.
BEHAR: Turning now to politics and how the fringe writers have moved into mainstream. It is the heart of the new documentary "What`s The Matter With Kansas," opening this Friday. Here`s a sneak peak.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: National Democratic party and everything you stand for is so pro abortion, pro homosexual, pro gun control, and I`m a Kansan, we are a conservative.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK all right. Thanks a lot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wish I could wish you good luck, but I hope you lose.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Well thank god for Kansas, because it`s taking the pressure off Arizona. With me now are Dan Glickman senior fellow at the bipartisan policy center. The former Kansas congressman who is in the film. And Thomas Frank Wall Street Journal columnist and author of the book that the film is based on "What`s The Matter With Kansas: How Conservatives Won the Heart of America." Tom, what is the matter with Kansas?
THOMAS FRANK, AUTHOR, "WHAT`S THE MATTER WITH KANSAS: Well OK, that`s a sort of famous phrase in the state.
BEHAR: Yes.
FRANK: But what I meant by it is it`s about the culture wars. It`s about how a state or people all over America, really, vote for policies that harm them economically and do it again and again. In fact, build a sort of movement that sweeps over the entire country, voting repeatedly for things that are disastrous for them.
BEHAR: They mostly vote against their own financial interests and do that because they`re more interested in social values or what?
FRANK: Yes, the culture wars. Kansas -- I mean, your viewers are going to know about how we fought over evolution, right, a couple years back?
BEHAR: That`s right.
FRANK: And I`m sure Dan Glickman will be reminding us of the abortion controversy there. You know which has been incredibly hot for years and years. There is an abortion last abortion doctor in Wichita was assassinated just last year.
BEHAR: Right.
FRANK: And these things have been going on for a long time. And what I point out in the book, and the film also makes this clear in a certain way, is that these cultural war issues are a proxy for old class issues. It`s always about real people versus the elite, right? Against the east coast ivy league educated. People that wear little round glasses.
BEHAR: Like you.
FRANK: Yes, that sort of thing.
BEHAR: You`re the devil.
FRANK: Exactly. Now you got it.
BEHAR: You know Dan, we see you in this film. You`re a nine-time Kansas Congressman. And you were ousted by the fringe right in `94. Wasn`t that the year that the contract on America came out with newt Gingrich`s policy? Wasn`t that that year?
DAN GLICKMAN, (D) FMR. KANSAS CONGRESSMAN: That was the year that I along with nearly 60 fellow Democrats were defeated as part of the Republican takeover of the House, and you know, I`ve been -- by the way, nothing is particularly wrong with Kansas. I think that the film represents what`s happening in the culture of America.
BEHAR: Right, of course.
GLICKMAN: I just want to make sure I still have my Kansas connections. So I don`t want to totally cut them off in this interview.
BEHAR: No. We assume it`s a template for the rest of the country.
GLICKMAN: Yes, that`s right.
BEHAR: It`s just specific to the universal.
GLICKMAN: Right. And I think that certainly what happened to me is what`s happened to a lot of other moderate Democrats is, is that these social issues certainly have more resonance than a lot of the economic issues.
BEHAR: Why? They shouldn`t.
GLICKMAN: You know, I think maybe a lot of people feel that politics unfortunately isn`t the answer to their problems. The political system doesn`t work very well. And that these social issues, whether it`s abortion or gun control are more important to them. I`m not exactly sure of the reason.
BEHAR: Yes.
GLICKMAN: In my own case, I do think that the abortion debate and the focus on abortion in my home town were a big factor in my loss.
BEHAR: I see. You know the working class vote often against their own interests, as this points out. Right, working class, lower middle.
FRANK: Well OK that`s one way of putting it. But you got to look at the other side of the coin, you know. Is the other team -- are the Democrats really making the case in a convincing way, that this is against their own interest? And Democrats have a problem making that case. You look at President Obama right now. He`s got Tim Geithner as treasury secretary.
BEHAR: Yes.
FRANK: This is a moment right now when Democrats should be riding high. It`s basically a replay of the Great Depression.
BEHAR: Yes, what do you make of that? I mean we`re talking to president Obama tomorrow on my other show THE VIEW. And I want to say to him, how did you lose the narrative, what happened?
FRANK: And he`s such a brilliant speaker.
BEHAR: Yes, exactly.
FRANK: I mean look, I`m a liberal. I like President Obama. He was my state senator when I lived in Chicago as a graduate student there.
BEHAR: Right.
FRANK: And I think he is a great man. But when you say he`s lost the narrative, that`s exactly right. This is a situation when Democrats really should just be triumphing, not going down in flames.
BEHAR: Well what should he do? You know should he have a pit bull you know the way they do on the Right? You know on FOX news, you`ve got O`Reilly and Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, you`ve got all these Right Wing radio people pummeling -
FRANK: Yes.
BEHAR: Even though he`s done so many good things. I don`t know what - who should he have out there doing that? Go ahead, Dan?
GLICKMAN: I was just going to say that I think one of the issues here is -- by the way, I think that things are not all that catastrophic for Democrats. And I think that the president can and will recover a lot of lost territory, politically. But I think one of the problems is the way we finance our campaigns in America.
BEHAR: Right.
GLICKMAN: And the political money has not differentiated the political parties. In fact, the parties are raising their money from the same -- very same people in most cases. And I think that blurs the difference in what the parties stand for.
BEHAR: Wasn`t there a movement to get rid of and really change campaign financing?
FRANK: Oh yes, there was.
BEHAR: And it just died, it died. It was McCain --
FRANK: Fifteen, 20 years ago, yes. What Congressman Glickman just said is exactly right and is exactly the problem. Democrats are afraid to sort of recapture that old narrative, that old sort of 1930s way of speaking that would yield success for them, in my you view.
BEHAR: Right.
FRANK: They`re afraid to talk that way because it would alienate donors, it would make Wall Street angry. You know all those donations would evaporate overnight. And so they have to you know tow to big business that Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman would never have done, not in a million years.
BEHAR: Uh huh, well why not coin the phrase the religious Left and really go bat that one home, for example? I mean two can play this game. Do you think the tea party is --
FRANK: All right, Joy, you get me a billion to start my own on TV network and we`ll do it. OK, all right?
BEHAR: Well we need probably a more radical Left wing TV network maybe.
FRANK: Uh huh the thing is you`ve got -- there`s lots of people that are into sort of Left wing radicalism. That`s not the problem. The problem is you don`t have a mainstream democratic party that speaks successfully to working class people.
BEHAR: Right and they`ve high-jacked the whole working class idea. Yes, go ahead, Dan. Quick, I have to go.
GLICKMAN: I was just going to say and the incentives in our system are not to work together. They`re to break apart and fight for the extremes.
BEHAR: Right.
GLICKMAN: That is really one of the real problems that we`re facing.
BEHAR: Well competition is the basis of capitalism, isn`t it? Thanks guys, very interesting. "What`s The Matter With Kansas" opens this Friday, check it out. And the adorable Jennifer Love Hewitt joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDE CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: this is Emma, our barely legal looking newbie. Hey hon, you`ve got a client number four. Why don`t you scoot over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re all licensed massage therapists?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sure. We`re all licensed and we all give massage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well it`s a teensy bit more than that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was Jennifer Love Hewitt playing a housewife turned prostitute in the hit Lifetime movie "The Client List." The movie attracted 3.9 million viewers for its premier, making it the second-most watched cable movie ever, ever. Well, I spoke to Jennifer about it recently but before we got to the to the movie, I asked her about her love life. Specifically, if she ever meets men out of show business.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER LOVE HEWITT, ACTRESS: I don`t.
BEHAR: You don`t?
HEWITT: I`m trying.
BEHAR: Yes, it`s hard once you`re in the business to do that, huh?
HEWITT: Yes.
BEHAR: I don`t know, how can we help you?
HEWITT: I don`t know. If you figure it out, I would be grateful.
BEHAR: Yes, I would like you to meet a nice guy. Maybe a doctor, I like a doctor for you.
HEWITT: A doctor, yes. Plastic surgeon, maybe.
BEHAR: Well now you`re really in the business again. A dermatologist who has a needle with Botox injections of.
HEWITT: A dermatologist sounds good, yes, I like that. That`s a good call.
BEHAR: Now in this film you`re a massage therapist who turns prostitute, right?
HEWITT: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: Now you know, Al Gore was recently -- they`ve been talking about Al Gore being with a masseuse and then having a happy ending, which a lot of people in the know say it`s a bunch of baloney, that story. People can write anything they want. He never went for a massage.
HEWITT: Yes.
BEHAR: But put the massage therapists are not happy with that particular image.
HEWITT: Well yes, it`s a big deal. There are places -- I mean, I definitely have guy friends who have frequented places where there is, you know, the happy ending aspect.
BEHAR: Really?
HEWITT: But they have to stay very quiet about it.
BEHAR: I go to a place to get a massage every once in a while. Nobody has given me any happy endings. They just say that will be 140 bucks.
HEWITT: I know right, I know, they don`t do it for girls. Why?
BEHAR: because men are the ones. You`ve been listening to the Mel Gibson tapes and his obsession with oral sex. It`s outrageous.
HEWITT: I know and burning the house down if he doesn`t get it. That`s a bit much. Wow.
BEHAR: And also, he wakes her up to get one.
HEWITT: I know, which is so rude. Like, you`re sleeping. If anybody ever did that to me, I`d burn their house down. I would be like, please, do not wake me. I am sleeping. I`m not a good, kind person when somebody wakes me up.
BEHAR: Me either.
HEWITT: And for that. Let me roll over for that, no. You have to be very awake and aware of what`s happening.
BEHAR: And also, isn`t that something only for special occasions?
HEWITT: Yes.
BEHAR: I was trying to explain for the crew, birthdays, holidays.
HEWITT: Maybe Christmas.
BEHAR: Christmas.
HEWITT: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s it.
HEWITT: And not every calendar holiday.
BEHAR: No.
HEWITT: Because they try that.
BEHAR: No, not Halloween.
HEWITT: Who would do that on Halloween, no.
BEHAR: Maybe in costumes though. It might be kind of kinky.
HEWITT: Perhaps, perhaps.
BEHAR: OK, where else can you have this conversation on television?
HEWITT: Nowhere, nowhere.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about the movie because you pointed out this morning to me that a lot of these women`s are turning to prostitution because they need the money, actually need the money.
HEWITT: Yes.
BEHAR: And how do they go about that? If you`re a house wife in Kansas and your house is in full closure, how do you become a prostitute?
HEWITT: I`m not really sure exactly. I mean a lot of them are not doing happy ending stuff but more like phone sex is coming back around.
BEHAR: Oh phone sex.
HEWITT: Which is odd with the internet because you sort of go on as a guy, kind of get what you want off the internet. So I don`t really know what it is other than the person-to-person sort of contact with the voice and everything else like that. Yes but the big thing is that women are starting to do phone sex from their houses.
BEHAR: I could see that.
HEWITT: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s no big deal.
HEWITT: The other interesting thing I didn`t talk about this morning because it was morning, but the other interesting thing is that women are also starting to do it for the same reasons men are. Because economically, men are feeling very sort of insecure and they cannot take care of their families and nothing they can really do. So the sex life of married couples right now is really sort of struggling as much as the economy. And they`re finding it difficult. So these women, some of them I read in interviews, are doing this so they can be satisfied like a man.
BEHAR: No, really?
HEWITT: Which is really interesting we`ve taken that position. It`s different.
BEHAR: What about Mr. Buzzy?
HEWITT: Old Mr. Buzzy. Now, that, you could do that every calendar holiday.
BEHAR: You can do every fifth day of the week.
HEWITT: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s a staple.
HEWITT: Yes, the rabbit. Tricks are not for kids. OK, I`m sorry. You`ve got the rabbit, right?
BEHAR: We know what the rabbit is.
HEWITT: ""Sex And The City."" Whatever.
BEHAR: You think they`re doing this because they don`t want to work at McDonald`s? They don`t want to work for, you know --
HEWITT: Probably. And I think it`s a way to sort of get in touch with your sexuality. And really the thing is that with prostitution so much - I mean unless you`re in a pimp situation, I guess, you really can make your own hours. I mean my character in the movie definitely says I can only do this in the hours between, you know, when I drop my kids off and school and pick them up.
BEHAR: Right.
HEWITT: A lot of women are saying, I can only do it in the afternoon. And they`re paid amazing money to sort of do these things.
BEHAR: The phone sex?
HEWITT: Yes. And happy endings.
BEHAR: Or really show up?
HEWITT: Yes.
BEHAR: Really show up?
HEWITT: Yes. It`s crazy.
BEHAR: I mean I know a guy who was a phone sex operator and he was a hairdresser. I guy I knew.
HEWITT: Yes.
BEHAR: No beauty, by the way. And suddenly, he answers an ad for a phone sex operator and they give him the job. So it`s all fantasy.
HEWITT: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s all fantasy. Now you know, what about this business of the stripper pole?
HEWITT: Yes.
BEHAR: You learned to work out on the stripper pole?
HEWITT: I did. Which I have to say I was kind of judgmental, like, really, a stripper? Like come on, it`s hard. I mean it`s really hard. These guys work it in ways that you can`t even imagine. And I was like -- I mean, I was battered and bruised by the pole, but it was great. Really - - I loved it.
BEHAR: Hurt so good.
HEWITT: It was amazing. No, but it really did sort of sexuality wise get me in touch with the part of myself I did not know about. It makes you feel very strong and powerful and it`s you taking on the pole. And it`s great.
BEHAR: It`s you and the pole.
HEWITT: Just you and your pole.
BEHAR: So you don`t even have to look that good?
HEWITT: No, you don`t.
BEHAR: Love that, wait, wait, hold on, we have to take a break?
HEWITT: Why.
BEHAR: It`s a drag. We`ll be right back with more.
HEWITT: OK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the charming Jennifer Love Hewitt. Jennifer did you research for the part of the prostitute?
HEWITT: Well, I tried to -- I read a couple of books here and there and sort of, you know, like studied stats and stuff like that. But I didn`t want to study too much about it because my character didn`t. She`s thrown into that world and learning as she goes. And so I thought, OK. I`ll just throw myself into that world also and see what I come up.
BEHAR: Right.
HEWITT: So I didn`t do too much research.
BEHAR: OK now, I have a couple of twitter questions.
HEWITT: OK.
BEHAR: Like one of the -- you broke up with Jamie Kennedy in March. Who is he, again?
HEWITT: He`s a comedian.
BEHAR: I don`t know him. Are you dating him now? I mean are you dating anyone.
HEWITT: No, I`m not.
BEHAR: You are not, you are free?
HEWITT: I am free and clear, single.
BEHAR: Free again, back to being -
HEWITT: Looking for a doctor.
BEHAR: Looking for a doctor with good needles?
HEWITT: Yes.
BEHAR: Here`s another funny one. Last time you were here, you talked about the jazz line. That`s going to follow you by the way.
HEWITT: Oh my gosh it hasn`t stopped -
BEHAR: I know everybody is doing it now, including Snooki. Do you regret this trend?
HEWITT: I really didn`t need the Snooki information. I don`t regret. But people can feel free to stop talking to me about their private parts, like it`s Ok for me to go to VONs, or the grocery store with out somebody going, I`m bejazzled. I`m like that`s so gross, thank you for sharing that with me. I don`t want that visual, you know what I mean?
BEHAR: While they are feeling up the -
HEWITT: I know -
BEHAR: It`s so wrong.
HEWITT: And then Kathy Griffin did it in public. She bejazzle in public.
BEHAR: She`s wacky, she`s a wack dog.
HEWITT: I mean it`s private matter, bejazzling people.
BEHAR: Now what about this Bristol Palin and Levi Johnston? They`re on the cover of "US" magazine.
HEWITT: I know.
BEHAR: Saying that they`re engaged now. They`re back together again, first of all, do you believe they`re in love or what?
HEWITT: I don`t get it. I really don`t, I mean the whole thing is kind of confusing to me. The words going back -- I mean I guess the verbal whatever --
BEHAR: Attack.
HEWITT: Was really between the mom and him, mainly. So I feel like maybe she`s a bit confused and her mom was in the midst of trying to do something you know very public and big, obviously. So maybe she was trying to sort of appease her mother by breaking up with him and not going out with him or something. That`s the only thing I can think of.
BEHAR: A little passive aggressive though to get pregnant when your mother is the big anti-sex thing going.
HEWITT: Yes right, I feel like she`s a bit confused and I feel like he`s got some cajones. And I feel like, I feel bad for Sarah Palin.
BEHAR: Why?
HEWITT: Because I know I`ve gone out with guys that maybe my mom hasn`t felt the best about. And if I did something like that, like so public and sort of embarrassing to her that way, she would feel very disrespected. And I just feel like let her have her reaction in Alaska like, alone, instead of on the cover of "US" magazine.
BEHAR: That`s it.
HEWITT: And all of us watching, like let her go scream at a moose or something and come back and then deal. And then she was like, what did she say? She has forgiveness that most other people. I`m like what does that mean?
BEHAR: Other people can`t forgive. She`s so self righteous.
HEWITT: Yes, it`s weird.
BEHAR: She`s always the best, she`s St. Sarah.
HEWITT: Not so much.
BEHAR: Well when are you going to come back and visit me again?
HEWITT: Anytime you want.
BEHAR: Because I feel like you are a regular over here.
HEWITT: I`m not leaving really. I`m just going to stay.
BEHAR: I love having you here.
HEWITT: I love being here.
BEHAR: You`re so cute. Thank you so much for coming.
HEWITT: Thank you.
BEHAR: Good night, everybody.
END
