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Joy Behar Page
Weekly Roundup; Interview With Leonard Nimoy
Aired August 06, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW: Lindsay Lohan`s provocative photo spread; Bristol and Levi`s breakup; drama "The View". It`s been a crazy week and Joy will dish on it all.
Then could the secret to stopping cheating be cheating? Holly Hill explains to Joy why she thinks negotiating an infidelity agreement is the key to a lasting relationship.
Plus, after almost losing his newborn twins following a routine treatment, actor Dennis Quaid took action to help prevent medical accidents. He stops by to discuss being a parent, activist and actor.
That and more, starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Well, there was a lot of controversy on "The View" this week. I love that when that happens. And the so-called White House party crasher Michaele Salahi said Whoopi Goldberg grabbed her during the taping Wednesday; I say not true.
Here to talk about this and other stories from the week are Bruce Jenner, star of "Keeping up with the Kardashians" and supporter of Tropicana Juicy Rewards program; Loni Love, fabulously funny comedian; and another fabulously funny comedian, Sal Richards. He`s also the author of "Behind the Laughter, He`s in Tears".
(CROSS TALKING)
BRUCE JENNER, "KEEPING UP WITH THE KARDASHIANS": I`m a supporter of reality television. I`m afraid if I go on this show, what`s going to happen to me? You guys have been a little tough on the reality stars.
BEHAR: So what? We have to talk about something.
SAL RICHARDS, COMEDIAN: He talks as fast as he ran.
JENNER: Yes.
BEHAR: Kim Kardashian is your --
JENNER: My stepdaughter. I have ten children.
BEHAR: From your seed?
JENNER: Six are from my seed. My wife and I -- I got married 20 years ago this April. She had four and I had four. We blended that eight and then had two.
BEHAR: The others were siblings.
All right. So let me show the incident from Wednesday`s "View" that sparked the controversy. This clip is actually a different camera angle than what originally aired so you can see it in a little better light. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELE SALAHI, REALITY STAR: Beauty is in all sizes. You`ve been abusing me. You`re a woman of --
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": Excuse me, could you get back to the White House, please?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. So -- Salahi woman said Whoopi grabbed her and was rough. Was she?
RICHARDS: I doubt it very much because my estimation of somebody hitting somebody is, when are you going to stop talking about Washington, D.C., what happened there? Do you understand? She tapped her.
And I resent that woman for another reason. She`s got my name in her name and I want it out of there.
BEHAR: What do you mean?
RICHARDS: Her last name is Salahi? What is it --
BEHAR: Salahi.
RICHARDS: Salami? What is her name? Salami.
BEHAR: Salahi.
RICHARDS: Salahi, yes.
LONI LOVE, COMEDIAN: It does sound like salami.
JENNER: It does.
RICHARDS: Salami, it does.
BEHAR: Now, she also went on "The Today Show" yesterday. And she said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SALAHI: I was in the back and Whoopi said f this, f that. Did you say I f-ing hit you? And I`m just sitting in the room waiting for our car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you say she hit me or she --
SALAHI: No, actually our producer -- I said bring me the person Whoopi. I never said you hit me. I said you grabbed my arm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: What is she? 12? Snitching on someone who uses the f-word? I mean come on. Really
LOVE: That`s f-ing crap.
BEHAR: It is.
JENNER: I just think we have too much media in our world today. Look at this. This is what we`re talking about.
BEHAR: But look who`s talking. You`re in the middle of a reality show.
JENNER: I know I`m in the middle of a reality show and I`m talking about reality. It`s scary, I know. We just give it too much time to cover.
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: Kind of crazy.
RICHARDS: Just the way this woman speaks, I wouldn`t trust her. She to me has got to be -- she`s a mutterer. She was in the back and she came and she said f this and f that.
She should wish her husband would say that to her.
LOVE: She`s doing it all for publicity. That`s all.
RICHARDS: That`s what she`s doing.
LOVE: That`s all.
BEHAR: Ok. Let me show you what Whoopi said on "The View" yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOLDBERG: She thought I hit her. So I went up to her and I told her that she knew I didn`t hit her. And yes, you know how I said it -- choice words. But then her husband got in my face, had his Blackberry out and started taking pictures of me. And needless to say, I really went off then.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Will he sell the video? What is he going to do with the pictures?
LOVE: I like the way Whoopi was like yes, he got up in my face.
JENNER: I have known Whoopi for 30 year, I have known her forever. I wouldn`t want her in my face if she got mad.
LOVE: Exactly.
(CROSS TALKING)
JENNER: I think she`s just really doing it for publicity to help her show. Oh, by the way, my show "Keeping up with the Kardashians" premiers on August 22.
BEHAR: Reality show whore. Everyone of them.
JENNER: This is how reality works.
LOVE: At least you`re not claiming that people are touching them when they`re not.
JENNER: No.
She likes it. I`m your favorite on the show, aren`t I?
RICHARDS: I have a show premiering as soon as I get one. As soon as I get show, it will be premiering. I`ll be telling everybody about it.
BEHAR: All I know is that tie is giving me an epileptic seizure.
LOVE: This is a pimp tie.
RICHARDS: This is not a pimp tie.
LOVE: Yes. It will hypnotize you. You go, I want --
RICHARDS: Let me tell you something. It`s not a pimp tie. It`s tied to something, it`s holding something, but it`s not holding a pimp. Let me tell you. You know what I`m saying.
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: Turning now -- we have a new story, Bristol Palin and Levi Johnston. They were gone from the news cycle for a second and I miss them. I really was verklempt. It could have been like the JFK and the Jackie of Wasilla. And now Bristol has broken off the second engagement. What a pair?
Wait until this kid Tripp finds out who his parents are, he`s going to turn on them.
RICHARDS: I know. I hope he has a big set of cojones, that kid.
LOVE: She found out he had another baby mama and she wanted to be the only baby ma, you know what I`m saying?
JENNER: Well, it sounds like a song.
LOVE: Do you know what you`re all saying.
(CROSS TALKING)
JENNER: She`s got a baby mama and she took it to her papa and his papa said I wanna. I don`t want wanna. Sarah Palin said I wanna, you got cojones. I take baloney and you take Salahi. I don`t know what the hell I`m saying.
LOVE: Is this Joy`s show anymore?
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: I`m going on vacation soon. I`m fine.
RICHARDS: That affair was on again-off again. On again-off again; that`s how they got into trouble to begin with.
BEHAR: This could be the first family if Sarah Palin runs for president and wins, God forbid. Can you imagine if she won and this would be the first family?
RICHARDS: Well, it would be like "Married with Children".
BEHAR: Exactly.
JENNER: That`s "Modern Family" in the White House.
BEHAR: Ok. Next story. Just when you thought America was safe, Lindsay Lohan is back on the newsstands. "Maxim" magazine got an interview with some racy photos of her just before she went to jail.
I have to give this girl credit, it`s not everyone who gets to pose for "Maxim" and mug shots in the same day.
RICHARDS: In the same week.
JENNER: And you can see the picture of her. There she is on the cover. She`s got her bikini on, but it`s kind of prison stripes.
BEHAR: Yes. That`s right.
JENNER: You know what I`m saying? Did you notice that?
LOVE: You know what, I just noticed that.
JENNER: Yes, it`s prison stripes.
(CROSS TALKING)
RICHARDS: How about getting a look of that for --
LOVE: She can`t afford clothes because she parties so hard. That`s why? Every time she takes pictures now it`s like less and less clothes.
RICHARDS: With all due respect, you`re dealing with somebody who has a very serious problem, she really does.
BEHAR: All right. Don`t bring us down now.
RICHARDS: I`m not going to bring you.
LOVE: I can tell you what the answer to that would be. Sal she needs fat friends. If she has fat friends, we don`t want to get high, we want to eat.
RICHARDS: Yes. Well, then you can hide her.
BEHAR: So that`s your suggestion? Get some fat friends?
LOVE: Call me, Lindsay, we`ll hang out.
BEHAR: Did you call her Lezzie?
LOVE: Did I call her Lezzie?
BEHAR: Well, she might be a Lezzie.
RICHARDS: I don`t care.
JENNER: To be honest with you, on a serious point with this, honestly, I think the judge did a good thing. In putting her behind bars for whatever it is, 10 days.
BEHAR: For 15 minutes she was there.
JENNER: Well, ten days is a long time to be behind bars.
BEHAR: We`ll, when you got 90 days --
JENNER: It gives you time to sit down there and think about your life and nothing else going on in your life. When you sit there and they close the door, you start thinking. And maybe it was good for her. And she gets help --
LOVE: Have you been in jail?
JENNER: No, I`ve never been to jail but --
BEHAR: Wait a second. Khloe Kardashian was in jail.
JENNER: Khloe was in --
(CROSS TALKING)
RICHARDS: If Lindsay stayed very long, if she would have lost a lot of weight, she could have run right through the bars.
(CROSS TALKING)
JENNER: I think the judge did the right thing and put her behind and make her think about her life and what she`s doing and she went from there right into rehab. And I think --
RICHARDS: She needs medication. I tell you what she needs, medication. She has bipolar disorder.
BEHAR: Oh, now you`re a psychiatrist?
LOVE: She needs a fat friend. I told you that. That`s all she needs.
RICHARDS: She needs a fat friend with bipolar disorder to straighten her out.
JENNER: To be serious about this -- help this woman.
BEHAR: She said in the interview, she would like to travel to Malawi. Do you think she`ll bring an orphan back?
RICHARDS: Bring an orphan back? She`s going there as a baby, so she`s bringing them a baby.
LOVE: Black kids aren`t going to help her, ok?
BEHAR: Why do these celebrities constantly go to Africa to find a black baby? There`s a million of them here.
LOVE: I`m going to find me a white baby and adopt me a white baby.
BEHAR: That`s good. Go to Scandinavia.
(CROSS TALKING)
JENNER: Why don`t you adopt me?
LOVE: Ok.
BEHAR: All right. Thank you everybody. Sal Richards is performing at the Prime Time Comedy Theater in Sayreville, New Jersey on August 28.
And my old stumping-ground, (INAUDIBLE) in Calico (ph) New York over Labor Day weekend.
Up next, you know him best as Mr. Spock but he`s actually a very talented Renaissance man. So why is he retiring. Leonard Nimoy joins me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why don`t you tell me I`m an attractive young lady or ask me if I`ve ever been in love? Tell me how your planet Vulcan looks on a lazy evening when the moon is full.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vulcan has no moon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not surprised, Mr. Spock.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Well, that was Leonard Nimoy in the classic TV series "Star Trek". Not a day goes by you know when someone doesn`t say to me, Joy, what do Vulcans do when they can no longer vulcanize?
They become a world-class photographer, that`s what they do. Leonard Nimoy`s new exhibit, "Secret Selves", opens this weekend at the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art. Leonard, it`s so nice to have you here.
LEONARD NIMOY, ACTOR AND PHOTOGRAPHER: Thank you very much.
BEHAR: You know before we talk about the photography, which I have your other book too. I love your stuff.
I want to just discuss Dr. Spock a little. First of all, did he ever have sex with anyone?
NIMOY: Mr. Spock?
BEHAR: Mr. Spock, I`m sorry.
NIMOY: Once every seven years.
BEHAR: Oh is that when he would do it?
NIMOY: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: And who with?
NIMOY: Once every seven years the Vulcans come into heat. It is -- hey, don`t -- it`s an incredible event.
BEHAR: I can imagine.
NIMOY: Well, yes.
BEHAR: Does smoke come out of his pointy ears?
NIMOY: Well, Joy, it`s well worth waiting for, believe me.
BEHAR: But who does he do -- who does he have sex with?
NIMOY: Well, we did an episode where he was -- he had to go home to his home planet to fulfill a marriage betrothal. And -- and it didn`t work out too well. The lady had decided she didn`t want him.
But there was a fight between Kirk -- you don`t want to get involved in this, do you?
BEHAR: You know --
NIMOY: So in the second --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
NIMOY: -- act of the show -- no, no, no. I`m not going to take you there.
BEHAR: Ok, don`t. I mean, I watched -- I watch somewhat. My daughter`s a trekker. They don`t say Trekkie, right, it`s trekker.
NIMOY: Some say Trekkie. But the people who -- some people feel that Trekkie is diminutive and they`d rather be called trekkers.
BEHAR: Trekkers.
NIMOY: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok, now your first autobiography --
NIMOY: Yes.
BEHAR: -- was "I Am Not Spock."
NIMOY: That`s right.
BEHAR: And your second was called, "I Am Spock."
NIMOY: Right.
BEHAR: Ok, which is it?
NIMOY: When I wrote "I Am Not Spock," --
BEHAR: Yes.
NIMOY: -- that was the case.
BEHAR: Yes. To say to people, listen, this is not me, it`s a character?
NIMOY: I had an interesting experience when I was -- I was writing a book about my "Star Trek" experiences. I was in the -- in the San Francisco airport. A lady recognized me. And she had her little boy with her and she marched him over in front of me. And she said, look who`s standing right here in front of you.
So the boy looks at me. And there was no recognition. She said this is Mr. Spock. And he`s staring at me and -- he just didn`t get it because I didn`t have the ears, I didn`t have the clothes on --
BEHAR: Right.
NIMOY: -- in the San Francisco airport. What`s Spock doing in the San Francisco airport?
BEHAR: You aren`t in a leotard.
NIMOY: So -- so I thought that was interesting. She -- she what -- she was saying was, this is the man who plays Mr. Spock.
BEHAR: Yes.
NIMOY: She didn`t say that.
BEHAR: Right.
NIMOY: She said this is Mr. Spock.
BEHAR: Yes.
NIMOY: I thought that was interesting. And I wrote a chapter about the differences between myself and Spock.
BEHAR: Oh.
NIMOY: And that -- and that`s why the book was named "I`m Really Not Spock."
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: And then when you came -- became -- when you said "I Am Spock" --
NIMOY: Yes.
BEHAR: What happened next?
NIMOY: I changed my mind.
BEHAR: Ok, so listen, you`re -- a Vulcan can change his mind I guess whenever he wants.
NIMOY: That`s right.
BEHAR: But I mean, he`s half human and he`s half Vulcan, kind of from a mixed marriage?
NIMOY: That`s right.
BEHAR: Is that what happened?
NIMOY: Yes, human mother. Earth, human mother --
BEHAR: Yes.
NIMOY: Vulcan father.
BEHAR: I see.
NIMOY: Yes.
BEHAR: All right. All right --
NIMOY: Not many people have that condition.
BEHAR: It`s not incurable.
NIMOY: No.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about your photography exhibit --
NIMOY: Ok.
BEHAR: -- which tackles the subject of secret selves.
NIMOY: Yes.
BEHAR: Here it is; "Secret Selves".
NIMOY: Yes.
BEHAR: What is the secret self? Tell me about it.
NIMOY: Well, it comes from a -- a story that we get from ancient Greece according to Plato`s symposium of Aristophanes who was very -- a very important --
BEHAR: He wrote comedies right?
NIMOY: Yes wrote comedies, that`s right.
BEHAR: Yes.
NIMOY: He was a philosopher of the period. He had an explanation for what is called human angst, human anxiety, the sense of not being fulfilled, the sense of a longing of some kind.
BEHAR: Right.
NIMOY: He said -- and this was his funny idea, humans at one time were double people. We had two heads, four arms and four legs --
BEHAR: Ok.
NIMOY: -- it`s like back to back in all combinations. Male-male, male-female, female-female. They became arrogant and powerful. How you can be powerful stuck together like that, I don`t know. But that`s what he shared.
BEHAR: Ok.
NIMOY: He said the Gods became upset about it. And they sent Zeus to solve the problem. He took a big sword and split everybody in two and sent them on their separate paths. And ever since then, Aristophanes said humans have been searching for the lost missing part of themselves to reintegrate and make themselves feel whole again.
So with that idea in mind, we collected 100 people. We photographed them at my gallery in Northampton in Michelson Gallery.
BEHAR: Yes.
NIMOY: And we asked them to come as their secret or hidden or fantasy selves.
BEHAR: And where did you find these people?
NIMOY: Well the gallery, Rich Michelson put out the word through the newspapers in the area and through the Internet and through phone calls of people that he knew and rounded up a wonderful collection of people. And I photographed 95 of them.
BEHAR: Wow.
NIMOY: We reduced that to 25 that are in the catalog --
BEHAR: Yes.
NIMOY: -- and in the show at Mass MoCA. And there`s a 40-minute video that we`ve compiled which is --
BEHAR: Which is part of the book, right?
NIMOY: It comes with the book. Yes.
BEHAR: This woman, Natalie, who`s naked under the fur coat, what`s her story?
NIMOY: Yes, she came to us very vulnerable. I was very touched by her. She said that she had been celibate for ten years. And her secret was that she was trying -- wanted to recapture her femininity. She hadn`t felt feminine in a long time. She`s lost the feminine part of herself.
BEHAR: Right.
NIMOY: And she thought that it would be helpful to her to be able to be nude in front of a man. And she took off the coat. And we photographed her.
BEHAR: You took the -- you photographed her with them without the coat?
NIMOY: That`s right.
BEHAR: Well you have another book, "The Full Body Project."
NIMOY: Right.
BEHAR: Which -- which has a lot of morbidly obese women --
NIMOY: True.
BEHAR: -- posing naked.
NIMOY: Yes.
BEHAR: And did you get any criticism about being a chubby chaser, Leonard?
NIMOY: It`s interesting. Why are you laughing?
BEHAR: I`m just teasing. I`m teasing you.
NIMOY: Ok, ok. In that case, I`ll let it slide.
BEHAR: No. I have that book, too. I can`t stop looking at those pictures. These women -- I don`t know, we have some of them to show.
NIMOY: Yes.
BEHAR: We couldn`t show the total nakedness of them.
NIMOY: No.
BEHAR: So we had to show the really --
NIMOY: I understand.
BEHAR: You know.
NIMOY: I understand.
BEHAR: But I -- I have that book at home. And I love to look at it.
NIMOY: Yes.
BEHAR: And these are not, you know, skinny bitches, these are chunky women.
NIMOY: That`s right.
BEHAR: And they I mean, we`re talking cellulite-heavy.
NIMOY: Right.
BEHAR: Now, what drew you to that project?
NIMOY: A lady came to me after I showed some of my other work at a seminar session in California. She said, I`m a model but I want a different type than what you`ve been working with.
BEHAR: Yes.
NIMOY: I did an earlier book with the models were more classic in body shape.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Right.
NIMOY: I`m a model, a different type than what you have worked with. Would you be interested in photographing me and - we did. My wife and I had a session, a photographing session with her. She was a very large lady.
BEHAR: Yes.
NIMOY: When I showed pictures of her, along with the other - people who were really intrigued. Who is she? Why -- how did she come to be photographed? Well, did she want to be photographed?
BEHAR: Yes.
NIMOY: All these questions because she`s a very unusual look.
BEHAR: Yes.
NIMOY: You don`t see that.
BEHAR: No.
NIMOY: It`s a kind of a hidden aspect of our culture. And I`ve discovered that the women who model the clothes that are being sold for women. The models who model clothes weigh 25 percent less on average than the average American woman.
BEHAR: That`s true.
NIMOY: Yes so the industry has sold this idea of what -- what is supposed to be beautiful and has told women --
BEHAR: I know.
NIMOY: If you buy these -- these clothes, if you buy these diet pills, if you take this exercise program --
BEHAR: Yes.
NIMOY: Whatever, or surgery will try to get you closer to what you should look like.
BEHAR: Right.
NIMOY: You know, it`s --
BEHAR: And so it`s not really true. The average woman weighs 164.5 pounds. We`ll have more with Leonard Nimoy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Renaissance man Leonard Nimoy. You are. You do a lot of different things.
NIMOY: I try, yes.
BEHAR: Very good at a lot of different things.
NIMOY: I try to be creative.
BEHAR: I was reading that when you were 17, you were tired of all the pretty girls passing over you and the jocks getting all the good girls. Is that true? And you vowed to take revenge?
NIMOY: You`re asking me to remember something when I was 17. I`m trying to remember yesterday`s lunch, Joy.
BEHAR: Don`t they say that as you get older, you can remember when you were 17 and not yesterday?
NIMOY: Well, there is some truth to that. In fact, you do think back nostalgically, yes. I was bothered by the fact that the jocks got the girls, yes, sure.
BEHAR: Sure. But did you vow to take revenge on them?
NIMOY: Absolutely.
BEHAR: By becoming a famous actor.
NIMOY: And they`re sorry now, I`ll tell you.
BEHAR: I`ll tell you. You know, people write in on Facebook and Twitter and those various --
NIMOY: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: And I have a couple of questions from people out there.
NIMOY: OK.
BEHAR: OK? These are not mine. OK.
NIMOY: OK.
BEHAR: Have you ever played Spock in the bedroom?
NIMOY: What`s the next question?
BEHAR: Could be fun, huh? Is it true that you and William Shatner did not get along when you were on "Star Trek"?
NIMOY: We still don`t get along. How can you get along with that guy?
BEHAR: Who does he get along with?
NIMOY: How can you get along with him? You have to chase him to get along with him. I keep telling him, do something with your life for a change, you know.
BEHAR: "Priceline." He does "Priceline."
NIMOY: He does and a lot of other things, too. He`s great. We`re very good friends.
BEHAR: You`re friends.
NIMOY: Yes, we are very good friends.
BEHAR: What`s this I hear about you retiring?
NIMOY: Well, I have stopped acting and directing.
BEHAR: Now you`re doing photography. You like this much -- it`s more --
NIMOY: Well, it doesn`t take me away from home necessarily. I don`t have to be in motels and hotels for weeks and months at a time.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes.
NIMOY: I can be with my family, with my wife and my kids that I love. I can do my work where I want to, when I want. So I`m a much happier man.
BEHAR: And it`s wonderfully creative.
NIMOY: Thank you. Thank you.
BEHAR: It`s wonderfully creative.
NIMOY: Thank you.
BEHAR: OK, how did you come up with the Vulcan salute? Is that this thing?
NIMOY: Yes. That`s that. Yes.
BEHAR: Yes.
NIMOY: It`s a long story. The short of it is, it`s a gesture that`s used by the Koheni (ph) -- men who are members of the Hebrew tribe of Kohens who blessed the congregation --
BEHAR: Do they live in the Bronx?
NIMOY: No.
BEHAR: I`m sorry. Go ahead, I`m sorry.
NIMOY: You asked me a serious question.
BEHAR: I know. I`m just a whack job.
NIMOY: I never would have known.
BEHAR: Is President Obama really a Trekkie?
NIMOY: Yes, yes. As a matter of fact, the first time we faced each other, he did that.
BEHAR: Did he really?
NIMOY: Yes. He gave me that. It`s a gesture that comes from Jewish mysticism.
BEHAR: Like the kabala?
NIMOY: Yes. Yes.
BEHAR: Oh. So Madonna knows how to do this.
NIMOY: Yes. Yes.
BEHAR: OK. Do you have any interest in going up in space, someone would like to know.
NIMOY: Not particularly, no. No.
BEHAR: Do you think -- do you think the moon landing was a hoax?
NIMOY: No, no, no.
BEHAR: No.
NIMOY: I have a lot of respect for the people who do that. No joke. They`re very serious and very important -- doing very important work. It was not a hoax at all.
BEHAR: Of course not. That`s another conspiracy crazy theory.
NIMOY: Exactly.
BEHAR: Well anyway, Leonard, thanks so much for dropping by. And check out his "Secret Selves" exhibition now through the end of the year at the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art.
We`ll be back in a minute.
Live long and prosper.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Men like to cheat, on their taxes, on their golf scores, on their wives. And most cheating husbands eventually become ex-husbands, but what if allowing a man to stray could save a relationship instead of destroy it? Enter the concept of negotiated infidelity. Basically it`s cheating with rules. Here to discuss the controversial topic are Stephen A. Smith national syndicated Fox sports radio host, Noah Beeterman founder and president of ashleymadison.com, a website that encourages extramarital affairs, and Diane Falzone relationship expert, and by phone from Australia, Holly Hill, author of "Sugar Babe" and the woman behind this theory. Holly you are on the phone, let me start with you, this is your idea, negotiated infidelity. Now most relationships are based on monogamy. You recommend the opposite. Why do you do that?
HOLLY HILL, AUTHOR, "SUGARBABE": Well negotiated infidelity is about accepting the biology of men and women. And using it to work for your relationship rather than against your relationship. I have a little saying bashing your head against brick walls becomes self-mutilation after awhile, and that`s really what has happen to our marriages over the last couple of 100 years because we have a 50 percent divorce rate. So what this is about is changing the recipe. And it`s about really, to use an analogy, walking the dog on a leash rather than letting it escape through a hole in the back fence and it`s about women taking control of their men`s sexual urges. And if they -- if a woman needs to cross her legs for any reason, well, she provides alternatives to her partner. So that he isn`t inclined to go out and cheat on her. And this way, the woman maintains control and he`s happy and we don`t have a 50 percent divorce rate out there.
BEHAR: It sounds like such a simple theory. And yet --
DIANA FALZONE, RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: Exactly. Here`s the whole idea. I always thought the biological debate was a weak one. Because when you think about it, we`re supposed to be more evolved than other animals. Which mean that when we got into monogamous relationships such as marriage, we know what we are getting into, we know what those vows mean. And if you think you can`t be faithful, guess what? Don`t get married.
BEHAR: Uh huh, well, I mean what she`s saying eventually the sex between two people can diminish and you still want to stay married to that person, so why not go out and just, you know, have your little fling with your wife or your husband knowing about it. Stephen let me go to you, how do you feel about this theory?
STEPHEN A. SMITH, NATIONALLY SYNDICATED FOX SPORTS RADIO: Well, I`m torn. In one sense, Joy, it`s really this simple. You know anything that`s consented between two consenting adults is absolutely fine with me. People make their own rule in their own individual relationships. On the other hand, the bottom line is that anytime rules are involved, you usually are going to have a problem with a man. Because men don`t particularly like to conform to rules that women try to institute and ultimately enforce. Unless they`re happy, of course.
BEHAR: But you know what I believe -- I believe the institution of marriage, and you know, who wants to live in an institution --
SMITH: The operative word is institution.
BEHAR: I know. I think the institution of marriage was basically created by men to control women. It`s not like the rules are made by women, Stephen. The rules were made by men.
SMITH: Well you are absolutely about. No, no, I`m not talking about the rules of marriage. I`m saying this particular idea that holly has basically presented. She says it gives women some more degree of control. And what I`m saying to you is that`s exactly why it wouldn`t work. Because the objective is to give women more control over a particular situation as it pertains to a relationship and that`s usually something that men are going to struggle to conform to, particularly when they are unhappy. I do agree of the institution of marriage and how it`s supposed to be about monogamy. But obviously, that`s not something that most men have dealt with admirably.
BEHAR: Right.
HILL: But men getting more sex are generally happier. I can pretty much guarantee that.
SMITH: Oh there`s no doubt about that.
HILL: I think every man will agree with that statement.
BEHAR: Yes, they are happier.
NOEL BIDERMAN, FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT OF ASHLEYMADISON.COM: I have 4 million members that will tell you that.
BEHAR: No, well you know, this idea that a man is compelled to spread his seed. I mean, is that a copout for bad behavior that you tend to encourage? On your website?
BIDERMAN: No it`s not a copout. I think, listen, I think the theory espoused in this book takes a lot of courage actually. And I would applaud the courage it takes and I actually am one to endorse that theory. Ironically, Joy, if someone did that, it would be a customer I lost. So you know there could be my ashleymadison business. But ultimately, I think she`s on to something. We know that all things being equal, a couple in an open relationship that consents to outside sexual relationship, versus a couple in a monogamous one, the open relationship has a much better chance of withstanding the test of time. So - you are on to something.
FALZONE: I don`t know about that.
HILL: Wait a sec, wait a sec -
BEHAR: You know we had open marriages back in the day in the `70s, and that was God`s way of telling you, you need a relationship.
HILL: Yes this is not an open relationship. And I`m so sorry to interrupt.
BEHAR: That`s fine.
HILL: This is definitely not an open relationship.
BEHAR: What`s the difference?
HILL: An open relationship is a loss of power for both the male and the woman. This is more power for the woman. It`s exchanging vulnerabilities of power. And it`s a happier man that knows exactly where he stands.
BEHAR: Well then why get married in the first place?
FALZONE: Well that`s what I mean. And Holly says something about negotiating affairs being empowering. They`re the farthest thing from empowering. What Stephen alluded to is, men don`t like rules. You really think the man is going to call you the moment he sees a hot blonde at the bar and goes, you know what baby, I think I`m going to cheat on you tonight. Is that OK? Can I have the sign off?
SMITH: Right, exactly.
FALZONE: There is still going to be mistrust within that relationship. And he`s still going to cheat when he wants to.
BIDERMAN: --there is still a sexual tension of a marriage. You know there`s a notion going around here that sex is the central tenant of a marriage, and it is just not. It`s an important element for sure, but your economic situation, your children, your extended family. Those are the primary things when you speak to women and matter most in a marriage. And I think that`s where the disconnect is coming in. It`s not oh, our sex life is bad, let`s get a divorce. It`s not that simple.
HILL: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Stephen is this - I know -- isn`t this negotiated fidelity idea just, men will just heat this up. It`s like giving them your cake and eat it too. Come on.
SMITH: Well absolutely. It`s utterly ridiculous. And I`m not talking about the idea itself. But I think that at the end of the day, it ultimately is ridiculous. Simply because you have to understand something. When you are talking about rules and regulations, in the interest of just being fair and honest, men like to enforce rules but we don`t think to necessarily conform to them. In other words, when you being, you know, when you are committing, you know, infidelity or in some cases adultery, and let`s be honest, I`m not married, but obviously I know a lot of married men. When you`re committing adultery or what have you, you`re thinking about it along the lines of I`m not happy, my sex life could be better. Or this particular woman, I might not care about her that much but boy did I want to get my hands on her. But if your woman had the same mentality, you would have a heart attack. You simply can`t handle that.
BEHAR: OK, that`s right.
SMITH: You simply can`t deal with that.
HILL: If you didn`t have to (inaudible), you would still lie.
BEHAR: Say it again?
HILL: Is that what you are saying? If you didn`t have to lie anymore, you`d still lie, do you think that`s a nice statement to make?
SMITH: Yes, no, I`m not talking about me, let`s not me in the equation.
BEHAR: Let`s leave Stephen out of this.
BIDERMAN: You`re different than anyone else.
SMITH: Never do that, never do that. But men do have a problem with conforming. I am saying to you flat-out that even when you don`t have to lie, by and large, some men will lie because again, they want to be able to control you.
BEHAR: You know what I don`t get about this.
SMITH: Hold on, wait a minute.
BEHAR: If you`re going to have an affair, why tell the person you`re going to do it. Part of the fun is the sneaking around.
FALZONE: And usually the ones that cheat have --
BIDERMAN: You`re right. You`re exactly right, Joy. That is part of the allure. It`s an important element of it.
BEHAR: Right, well then so this goes against each other in a way.
FALZONE: It`s so dangerous and not only that it`s all fun and games until someone gets pregnant. We`re assuming the people involved in these extramarital affairs are OK with this and are happy. What happens when the girl gets attached to your husband and she wants to become the other woman.
BEHAR: Exactly.
FALZONE: Eventually the other wife. It gets very complicated and a bad idea.
BEHAR: Yes.
HILL: That`s why you have rules.
BEHAR: Let`s tell them the rules, Holly.
HILL: -- attachment forming.
BEHAR: For example, a rule that you`re not allowed to spoon. You can have sex but you can`t spoon. Why not? Too intimate, the spooning?
HILL: Yes. You know men and women have sex for different reasons. Women have sex for the wining and dining and wooing. And men have sex, you know, often, for the cheap thrill or the spice that it gives them with other men. So that what we do is negotiate unique rules for every couple. Because everyone is going to have different rules. That prevent attachment forming --
BEHAR: You don`t know that people are going to adhere to the rules.
FALZONE: That`s a big concern.
BEHAR: I know this conversation could go on and people are having it in their own kitchens right now.
FALZONE: They will.
BEHAR: Thanks, everybody. Up next, actor Dennis Quaid explains how almost losing his newborn twins changed his life.
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BEHAR: In 2007, Dennis Quaid`s newborn twins almost died. They were given an accidental overdose of a blood thinning drug. They`re healthy and now, but as a result of that near-fatal accident, the actor has made et its mission to raise awareness about medical errors. With me now is the actor, Dennis Quaid and Charles Denham, a doctor from the Texas institute of medical technology. Dennis, explain to me what happened to your twins when they were just 12 days old.
DENNIS QUAID, ACTOR: Well they came home from the hospital after their birth, just healthy and happy. And I noticed about a week in after they came home that they -- one of them had a little mark on the finger. And the boy had a mark on his remnant of his belly button. And so we took them to the doctor. They suspected it was a staph infection, so we were told to take them to Cedar Sinai Emergency Room. And they confirmed it was a staph infection and they had to be put into the hospital for a round of antibiotics that would last for two weeks. And the very next day, while my wife and I were in the room, by the way, one of the nurses came in to change their I.V., and they use heparin through a hep lock to change the I.V., which clears the blood vessels inside there. So it prevents clotting. And they were supposed to receive ten units each of it. They wound up receiving 10,000 units each, 1,000 times the dose they should have gotten. And this was done while we were in the room. And then it was done twice. And their lives were in real danger for 40 hours.
BEHAR: They administered the heparin while you and your wife were there?
QUAID: Yes.
BEHAR: But you wouldn`t know the difference.
QUAID: Wouldn`t know the difference. You know, I was even asking the nurse what, you know, what she was doing. And as she was explaining, as she went along. And about 7:00 that night, my wife and I went home to get some rest. We had been at the hospital with the kids. And at 7:00 that night, a nurse noticed that there was some bleeding coming from a blood stick on our daughter`s foot and it just wouldn`t stop. That`s when the alarms were raised.
BEHAR: Uh huh so they were supposed to get hep lock and the nurse gave them heparin instead, which was a blood thinner. So she just didn`t see the writing clearly? Or she didn`t know the difference or what do you think?
QUAID: well, it was a chain of events that happened. I believe going all the way back to the manufacturer. The bottle of heparin, the 10,000 unit is dark blue and the ten-unit bottle is light bottle is light blue. And if you rotate them in a drawer, as they commonly are, it`s very difficult to tell them apart. So it went from the pharmacy, where it missed two checks there to the nurse`s station where it missed a check there, into our kids room, where it missed the checks there by the nurses. And missed it twice. And as well as several other kids on the pediatric ward were also overdosed with the same amount of heparin.
BEHAR: Really? Doctor, how does something like this happen? It sounds unbelievable to me that they would just make them such similar colors with similar names.
CHARLES DENHAM, M.D. CHAIRMAN, TMIT: Well, this happens all the time. And you know, what Dennis and I like to say is that, it`s not bad people, it`s bad systems.
BEHAR: Right.
DENHAM: And what we mean is the support systems, the safety net of how we do things is not really well built, and the complexity, we just can`t deal with today. And that`s why we`re so grateful to have Dennis put his celebrity and name behind these things, because these accidents, Joy, these are happening every month. In fact, we`re going to do a webinar on Heparin accidents because they`re happening with this drug. Yet there are even more accidents occurring in hospitals. Many hospital accidents.
QUAID: Yes three kids died in Indianapolis the year before that, that happened to our kids. In fact another set of fraternal twins died of a Heparin overdose about nine months later and it just keeps happening.
BEHAR: So even with these accident, they still haven`t changed the colors of the bottles? And they still keep the same system place?
QUAID: Well, actually, when the Indianapolis accident happened, Baxter had changed the colors of the bottles, but they failed -- they failed to recall the bottles that were already out there.
BEHAR: I see.
QUAID: And that was our point with them. And, you know, they recall dog food, but they don`t recall medicines.
BEHAR: Unbelievable.
DENHAM: And the problem is even much bigger. We have as many as 200,000 deaths a year. That`s like 20 airliners, we like to say, we`re both jet pilots. That`s like 20 airliners going down a week.
BEHAR: Wow.
DENHAM: And we have medication errors, we have infections, we give patients in hospital, upwards of 99,000 or more deaths due to those. And then handoffs with reports. And test results.
BEHAR: Is it, besides the system of this miss labeling or whatever, what about being understaffed, overworked? Lack of training? Is that also a problem in hospitals across the country?
DENHAM: Exactly. And what we like to say is the infrastructure has - - we haven`t been maintaining the infrastructure to hospital systems because over time things have gotten more complex. It`s like running a highway and then not keeping up the highway, yet the cars are going faster and more cars. And then when we do budget cuts it`s like taking segments of an overpass out, leaving a huge gap and we have these terrible accidents.
BEHAR: That`s terrible. Let`s talk about the cover-ups. A lot of these hospitals cover up stuff like this. We`ve seen it, you know, in films. You know, Dennis. Probably been in movie where is they do that. And you know it`s happening around the country. What is a person to do? Somebody like you when there`s a cover-up going on?
QUAID: Chuck and I as we said before, we`re both jet pilots and we have been really working to bring the principles of aviation safety into the medical field. What happened with our kids, some of the first people at the door were from risk management who, you know, basically lawyers who are, because of the liability to the hospital are doing their best to, you know, keep it under wraps, cover up, cover themselves. And it -- because of that, no one - don`t share information when accidents happen between hospitals. And because of this, no one knows about the accidents. We`ve done a lot of research in aviation, and there`s a reason flying in an airplane today is safer than walking. It`s because when accidents do happen that the NTSB investigates. They find the cause of the accident, and they do their best to fix that problem.
BEHAR: Right.
QUAID: Because they know that it`s a business and people aren`t going to fly in the airplanes. The top gun school says that the rules of aviation are written in blood. The medical industry should follow suit.
BEHAR: OK we are going to talk some more about this, so sit tight, we`ll continue this after a quick break.
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BEHAR: I`m back with my guests, actor Dennis Quaid and doctor Charles Denhem, Dennis, why were you intercepted at the door when you went to see what the story was by the hospital`s risk management personnel? A bunch of lawyers and things like that? That`s annoying.
QUAID: Well, yes. It`s dehumanizing at the same time. You know, we`re not -- let me say we`re not here to denigrate doctors and nurses and caregivers. We revere them. They`re really overworked and underappreciated.
BEHAR: Of course.
QUAID: But at the same time, mistakes happen. It`s called human error, and it`s going to happen. It`s the reason my wife and I, when we formed our foundation, and we joined with TMIT with Chuck, there`s a lot of technology out there that exists in every gas station and supermarket in America that is bar code. It`s a bar code that simply scans the bottle, scans the patient`s bracelet and scans the nurse`s bracelet. If there is a problem there with, you know, wrong medicine, wrong room, wrong patient, wrong route, whatever it is, it will sound an alarm.
BEHAR: Right. That would be good to have that. Is there a lawsuit pending on this case right now, Dennis?
QUAID: There`s a lawsuit that really is on hold with Baxter at the time being because of our kids that we needed to protect our kids in case there was any kind of long-term damage. But luckily so far, they`re healthy, happy kids and things couldn`t be better.
BEHAR: Doctor, what could the average person do about this sort of thing? You know, let`s say I had to go into the hospital. What should I be protecting -- how should I be protecting myself against this type of thing?
DENHAM: Well it`s critical patient families get involved. And that`s why we are launching a grass roots effort to help educate what we call, care moms. The chief family officer of our communities. Women make 70 percent of the health care decisions. One in four Americans are a caregiver of someone else and 80 percent are women. So we`re helping to get them to understand hospital accidents. And what you can do is make sure you have somebody at the hospital with you when you go and make sure to watch everything and be part of the care team. Respectful and gracious, but part of the care team. Make sure everyone watches your hands. Make sure your get your medical records at discharge. Two thirds of the folks that are discharged that are over 65 do OK. But one third are either dead or readmitted within a year after a hospital event.
BEHAR: Not good. Not good.
DENHAM: The records are key and then the final thing, reconcile your medications as you would your bank account.
BEHAR: So when the nurse is giving me medication, I should read it myself. I can do that, right?
QUAID: Yes, you`re the patient. You`re part of the care team there, really. And that`s why it cease important to have someone in the hospital with you, too. As well.
BEHAR: A lot of people are scared to do it.
QUAID: You could be asleep or knocked out.
BEHAR: They`re sort of intimidated by doctors and hospitals and the medical establishment. So maybe we need to be more assertive and understand that it`s up to us to really take charge. Thank you guys very much for joining me.
QUAID: Thank you Joy.
BEHAR: And the kids are all right now, right, Dennis? The kids are all right.
QUAID: They`re doing great. You bet.
BEHAR: That`s great. Go to chasingzeromovie.com to watch the documentary that Dennis and doctor Denham co-produced. Good night, everybody.
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