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Lindsay Lohan Leaves Rehab; Battling Bullies
Aired August 25, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW. Lindsay Lohan is free; released from the L.A. rehab facility mere weeks after she was sentenced to 90 days behind bars. But was this slap on the wrist enough to set her straight.
We`ll get an exclusive action from Lohan`s father, Michael.
Then Tiger`s wife breaks her nine-month silence. Telling "people" magazine she`s moved beyond the anger and grief and is now stronger than ever. So what`s next for the single Swede?
Plus, the legendary ladies of Heart talk about their new album and surviving the male-dominated world of rock and roll.
That and more starting right now.
DR. DREW PINSKY, GUEST HOST: Welcome to THE JOY BEHAR SHOW. I am Dr. Drew Pinsky, filling in today for Joy. Joy thank you for this opportunity.
Tonight we`re going to begin with Lindsay Lohan. Now first, her jail stay was cut short thanks to her good behavior and the overcrowding in California jails. Now after serving just 23 of her court-ordered 90 days of treatment and rehab, the young star has been released from UCLA Medical Center where she was undergoing such treatment.
Here to talk about this is Lindsay`s dad, Michael Lohan. Michael thank you for joining us.
Now, the press is sort of spinning with stories about this being special treatment. That she`s a celebrity and is it enough for her?
I have to tell you. To my eye, she got sort of standard care. She got psychiatric treatment and (INAUDIBLE) stabilization and now she`s getting court-mandated chemical dependency treatment. It seems like in my opinion she is vastly better off than the last time you and I met eyeball to eyeball. Would you agree with that?
MICHAEL LOHAN, LINDSAY LOHAN`S FATHER: 100 percent.
DR. PINSKY: So you`re relieved to see how she`s doing.
LOHAN: Yes, I think that the incarceration might have been a scare tactic. I didn`t think that was the right way to treat her.
DR. PINSKY: She got out of it pretty quick. Thank goodness.
LOHAN: Yes, thank God. But you know, now, from what I understand what the mandated aftercare; I think it`s what she needed from the beginning.
DR. PINSKY: And Mike, I don`t think it`s aftercare. I think it`s care. Let me read to you what the court in the hearing laid down. The judge asked for these rules for her. They call it probation, I think it`s ongoing treatment.
Reside at home until further notice. This idea of her moving back to New York I guess is out of the question.
LOHAN: And a bad idea.
DR. PINSKY: Horrible idea, right?
LOHAN: Yes.
DR. PINSKY: That was her mom wanting her to come out there.
LOHAN: I suppose so.
DR. PINSKY: Wishful thinking, I guess. I mean it would be nice if she could but people need to stay where they`re getting treatment.
LOHAN: Exactly.
DR. PINSKY: Ok. So stay at home. Random drug and alcohol testing, two times a week randomly; three days in jail if she flunks. Participate in what they`re calling psychotherapy, a minimum of four days a week. That could be anything from group therapy to intensive outpatient therapy.
Do you have any sense of what that is?
LOHAN: No. But I think that would be an important element to include both Dina and myself in the therapy.
DR. PINSKY: Family therapy. Absolutely.
(CROSS TALKING)
DR. PINSKY: It`s a family disease.
LOHAN: Yes.
DR. PINSKY: In addition attend behavioral therapy -- they`re talking about cognitive behavioral therapies twice a week. That`s probably the individual sessions and then 12-step program five days a week. Is one 12- step meeting five days a week sufficient?
LOHAN: I have my own opinion about those kinds of things. It depends upon what she puts into it and what she gets out of it.
DR. PINSKY: If it were me, I would want three meetings a day.
LOHAN: I think so too. But I mean you run a rehab and you have a different perspective on things. The court has -- they`re not -- they don`t know what you know.
DR. PINSKY: They`re not that sophisticated.
LOHAN: No, they`re not. You can see that with their decisions already.
DR. PINSKY: Michael, the thing that scared you the most last time you and I talked was that she was on Adderall and Klonopin and Dilaudid which is just an incredible powerful opiate. It`s stronger than morphine guys. Is she off all that stuff now?
LOHAN: From what I understand, yes. And I think that was the good part about what has transpired so far at UCLA. They got her off those things. But then again, you and I both discussed this a number of times from the very beginning. I think we both agreed that she wasn`t ADD or bipolar.
DR. PINSKY: No. She`s a drug addict.
LOHAN: Exactly. Now what happened from there is these doctors and therapists and everyone else jumped in to the mix and put her on all these medications when you were wrong. They misdiagnosed this kid. They stole a certain part of her life and threw her brain chemistry totally off with this concoction of -- this cocktail of medications that was killing her.
DR. PINSKY: Well, Adderall is the one drug that has been sort of called out as the inappropriate medication for her. And I have to tell you I`ve seen my drug-addicted patients get on Adderall and they really get into some bizarre behavior sometimes.
You`re in recovery, right?
LOHAN: Yes.
DR. PINSKY: In your -- when you were -- say before you got fully sober, were you ever misdiagnosed? Were you ever -- because it happens a lot with people with addiction?
LOHAN: You know, it`s funny you said this. I`ve never mentioned this before and I go back and I think about it. When I did go into a program in upstate New York, in Rhinebeck, they did put me on medication for a week to try it out. It was Neurontin.
DR. PINSKY: Oh, yes. Well, that`s actually a safe one I have to tell you.
LOHAN: Paxil, Neurontin --
DR. PINSKY: Compared to what Lindsay was on, that`s actually kind of safe.
LOHAN: It lasted a week and I was like, I can`t do this.
DR. PINSKY: Not only that, it misses the point. The point was you need to get sober and stay sober.
LOHAN: Exactly.
DR. PINSKY: Go with the program. Do you think Lindsay`s going to do it this time?
LOHAN: I have a 100 percent faith that she will. There`s a lot of things that I`m not going to discuss that I think were positive things that have happened and transpired.
DR. PINSKY: Oh, so you have some direct knowledge of things that are going better for her?
LOHAN: Sure. I mean her faith.
DR. PINSKY: Michael, it`s a great relief.
LOHAN: Yes, it is.
DR. PINSKY: You said her faith?
LOHAN: Her faith, I mean when she was in jail. There were certain things that happened that really relieved me. I really believe that she`s got a connection with God again. I just pray that you know, Dina can get on the same page with me because we both need to be there for her.
DR. PINSKY: Ok. Let`s talk about those moments in jail. Do you think that poor Lindsay, there was some -- forget that she had special treatment. All of that stuff that people are spinning about. I think they got it all wrong. Do you think she had a moment of clarity there in jail?
LOHAN: I think so.
DR. PINSKY: You think she hit some kind of bottom, even though it was a short period of time that something got through? Maybe she was off meds long enough to be able to see things clearly.
LOHAN: Exactly. Maybe she is more clear and focused. Maybe it was an epiphany. Who knows? But I`m just praying for the best. I just, I think from here on in, an important element which I`m sure you`ll agree with, is that people, places and things in her life have to be the right ones. She has to make sure she surrounds herself with people that care about her and not about the business and her career.
I don`t think I need to be in her life when it comes to the business. I don`t think Dina does. I think leave that to the professionals. I think Jason Wineberg (ph), her manager is a great guy. I think it should be left on his shoulders.
DR. PINSKY: From your standpoint as compared to, say, a month ago, you`re much more hopeful, you think she`s got a chance?
LOHAN: I do. I just think that she`s got to just stick to the program now. As you said, you know, just continue with her therapy. You know, heal all the wounds that caused all this pain in her life.
DR. PINSKY: Here`s the deal. If she slips, she`ll be in jail.
LOHAN: It seems that way.
DR. PINSKY: And that`s where she needs to be if she slips. It`ll only help her at that point.
LOHAN: If she does, but I think she`s got it -- I think she`s got it now. I really do. I think that she knows how serious the court system is.
I think what the new judge did was a great idea. Get her out of jail. Get her out of being incarcerated. She`s off the medication now. Now, let`s get her the help she needs.
DR. PINSKY: Thank you, Michael. I really appreciate it.
LOHAN: No, I appreciate it. You`re an unbelievable person.
DR. PINSKY: Goodbye.
LOHAN: Thank you.
DR. PINSKY: Joining me now with his reaction to Lindsay`s release is actor Tom Sizemore, who worked with us on Season Three of "Celebrity Rehab" and Season Two of "Sober House". Tom thanks for joining us. So, your thoughts.
TOM SIZEMORE, ACTOR: Good to be here.
DR. PINSKY: Listen, man, every day I think about you and your recovery. God bless you. You`re doing very, very well. Look how healthy you look. It`s such a pleasure.
SIZEMORE: Thank you.
DR. PINSKY: So here`s the deal. What do you think about Lindsay? What are the sort of challenges for her ahead? It sounds like she has a reasonable plan that the judge is requiring? Is it enough? Does she have special stressors? What do you think?
SIZEMORE: I think you`re being -- it doesn`t sound like you`re being as completely forthright as you would be with me. As you`ve been --
DR. PINSKY: As tough you mean?
SIZEMORE: Well, I think she needs 90 days of inpatient treatment.
DR. PINSKY: Yes.
SIZEMORE: Followed up by at least 90 days to a year of sober living. That`s what worked for me. I was probably much further down the road of addiction. You classified me as a grade nine, hope to die junky. I didn`t like that moniker that you gave me. But I think it`s true.
DR. PINSKY: Well, you heard it.
SIZEMORE: Yes. It was true. And I got clean because I did what you said. What you said to do was not what she`s being asked to do.
DR. PINSKY: Yes.
SIZEMORE: I don`t think 22 days of treatment is much of anything. And this stay-at-home until November 1st, you just told Michael -- and I know Michael -- that those things that the judge has put in place are probably all outpatient.
DR. PINSKY: Yes.
SIZEMORE: And they`ll probably all be done from home. I just think she needs a more structured environment. That`s all.
DR. PINSKY: Well, I think you`re -- listen, if I were making the decisions for her. If I had a magic wand and could make the recommendations, Tom, I agree 100 percent with what you`re saying. That in terms of the probability of having a positive outcome, you`re right, it`s three to six months of residential or inpatient treatment followed by up to a year of sober living. You`re absolutely right.
The question though is --
SIZEMORE: Look at Mike Star now. Look at Mike Star. He`s doing so much better.
DR. PINSKY: You`re right.
SIZEMORE: And these things that she has on her with regard to what she has to attend without structure and the random testing is just a prescription for her to fail.
DR. PINSKY: I think you may be right, Tom. Let me ask you this. Have you tried reaching out to her at all?
SIZEMORE: I don`t want -- I was asked to reach out to her by her father. But because of the mercurial nature of their relationship, I chose not to. I did reach out to the guy -- the gentleman who was -- the pastor or the reverend, priest who was at Linwood just to give her my best wishes. That`s all.
DR. PINSKY: Well, you know, we all hope the best for her, there`s no doubt about it. This has been sort of scary watching her unravel like this. I`m actually more hopeful. I really am genuinely hopeful tonight --
(CROSS TALKING)
DR. PINSKY: At least -- at least, go ahead please.
SIZEMORE: Well, I`m -- well listen, I -- I had given up on myself. I think I said on Mr. -- on "LARRY KING LIVE" that I felt fairly hopeless. And you told me in one of my first one-on-ones that my life wasn`t over and that although I didn`t feel it right now, if I stayed clean, I would -- my hopefulness would come back and I would feel I could have a life again.
DR. PINSKY: Yes.
SIZEMORE: And -- but it would only come back if I stayed clean. And I`m happy to report that you were right. I didn`t think you were really. I mean, I didn`t -- I didn`t think you were wrong. I just thought I maybe had -- I didn`t think maybe -- I thought I ruined my life.
DR. PINSKY: Yes.
SIZEMORE: And it was only by staying clean was I able to get my footing right and feel -- feel some type of optimism and confidence.
DR. PINSKY: Tom, I want you to know that you were an inspiration. And it`s people like you that keep me doing the work and getting up in the morning.
So thank you and thanks for your insight. We`re going to be back in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DR. PINSKY: Michael Brewer, the 15-year-old who was set on fire by bullies almost one year will be heading back to a different school this year. This brutal attack and the headlines that followed brought new attention to a very serious and really shockingly widespread problem.
Michael spoke to ABC`s "Nightline" earlier this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If a kid`s being bullied, do you think they should seek a grown-up?
MICHAEL BREWER, BULLYING VICTIM: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How come?
BREWER: Because mostly if you try to take care off on yourself they`re going to do something even worse or -- or kill you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DR. PINSKY: Wow. In less than two weeks, many parents -- and I know I myself are amongst them -- will be packing their kids off to school, it might be going out next week.
So how should we all prepare the children that are dreading something far more serious than homework? With me now are my guests, first of all, Tina Meier, the mother of Megan Meier who killed herself in what became nationally known as the MySpace suicide case. She`s the founder of the Megan Meier Foundation. Jodee Blanco, author of "Please Stop Laughing at Me." And Rosalind Wiseman, author of "Queen Bees and Wannabes" and creator of the Owning up Anti-bullying Program.
Rosalind, I`ll start with you. How important is it that Mr. Brewer, young Mr. Brewer is speaking out about this?
ROSALIND WISEMAN, AUTHOR, "QUEEN BEES AND WANNABES": It`s incredibly important. And I also think it`s important to have adults who know what to do when a child comes to them and says I`m having a problem.
DR. PINSKY: What do you do?
WISEMAN: Well, you don`t say just walk away, just be nice, just ignore them. You say I`m so sorry this happened to you, and thank you for telling me and together we`re going to think through how to solve the problem.
DR. PINSKY: I can imagine some parents are, you`ve got to stand up for yourself, you`ve got to take action --
WISEMAN: You`ve got to punch him on the face --
DR. PINSKY: -- you`ve got to punch him on the face.
WISEMAN: -- right. I mean, look, I`m -- I -- there are a lots of parents who can say that also. It`s either they just walk away or punch them in the face. There has got to be something in the middle.
And that`s some people --
DR. PINSKY: How about intervention?
WISEMAN: Right.
DR. PINSKY: Some sort of intervention --
WISEMAN: It`s something that`s common sense, intervention that has to do with ethics and has to do with social competence.
DR. PINSKY: Jodee, what about changing schools? Would changing schools help these kids or is that just asking for more trouble?
JODEE BLANCO, AUTHOR, "PLEASE STOP LAUGHING AT ME": Sometimes it can, but my feeling about changing schools is that who you are goes with you wherever you go. And what I often recommend to parents is before they make a decision to change schools, contact the park district or the local library, the nearest next town over. And get your child involved in an activity where they can meet new friends with new faces and have an interim social life. And that will buy the parent the time to deal with the school and the larger issue at hand.
But remember that a bullied child is bleeding in the form of loneliness. And the first thing you have to do as a parent is to get your child an interim social life where they can connect with their peers someplace else so they don`t feel so isolated and alone.
DR. PINSKY: Well, Jodee, it`s interesting that you say the child`s internal life travels with them. The Internet follows them wherever they go these days.
And Tina, of course your daughter was bullied through MySpace. How do you feel about this issue?
TINA MEIER, MEGANMEIERFOUNDATION.ORG: Correct. You know, I think the issue is with these children. They are dealing with not only the bullies that happen every day at school but then now it`s the cyber bullying, which follows them. They never get a chance to stop. It`s constant. And if the parents are not able to speak with their children and have a good communication, these children often feel isolated, alone.
They`re having comments. They`re having posts sent to them constantly. And if parents don`t understand that, it`s very scary for these children. And I think the schools --
DR. PINSKY: Tina, let me interrupt you. I`ll interrupt you, your story is -- I`m looking at pictures of your daughter. And your story was absolutely heartbreaking, it was shattering.
Can you give us an update? How do you -- how do you get through this? What are you doing now? How are you taking actions and how are you making sense of all this?
MEIER: Well, I don`t think that I will ever make sense of what happened. I mean, she was my baby, my first born. But what I chose to do is we went through a horrible trial. We went through a first year of absolute horrible pain.
And I knew that I was either going to do one of two things. Either one, sit in a corner and cry every single day and be full of rage or do something that I`m doing now. Which is my hope was to start the foundation. And if one family, one child could be spared this absolute tragedy, then it was worth it.
So you know, my goal is to go out and speak to children and parents and educators about the dangers and what they can do to protect themselves.
DR. PINSKY: And Tina, that -- that is very much I think one of the things at issue. And Rosalind, I`m going to direct this question to you.
WISEMAN: Sure.
DR. PINSKY: Which is that, if you are aware your kid is being bullied or you are aware another kid is being bullied and let`s say you go to the parents of the bully, one of the thing the phenomena I`ve seen over and over again is those parents are then defensive and won`t do anything about it and claim it`s the school`s problem or it`s your kid`s problem.
WISEMAN: Sure.
DR. PINSKY: How do we deal with the parents of the bully which really are usually what`s at issue here?
WISEMAN: Well, I think for the most part -- not in Megan`s case -- but I think it`s for the most part what you also have to realize is that when your child comes to you with a problem, they are telling their side of the story, which means that there are also other sides to the story.
Sometimes -- there has to be a reality out there or different roles that kids take. So you`ve got to take a step back.
DR. PINSKY: But I think what you`re getting is that sometimes kids that are bullied were a bullier at one point or another -- is that`s what you`re saying?
WISEMAN: Or it`s the day before. The technology is so messy.
DR. PINSKY: Yes, but -- but still though, what the thing. But Tina`s -- Tina`s story is the one that really breaks my heart.
WISEMAN: Sure, absolutely.
DR. PINSKY: And I can imagine it and you know that if she were to go to the parents of the kids that were bullying, she would have met defensiveness, I suspect.
WISEMAN: Absolutely and so here`s what I would -- if you`re asking me what I would say?
DR. PINSKY: Yes.
WISEMAN: What I would say, is I would call the parent up or do it face to face and say look, I`ve got something that`s really uncomfortable for me to tell -- to talk about, but it`s so important that I`m going to do this. I`m going to reach out to you and then say exactly what`s reported and say my kid is reporting to me that this is what`s happening.
Can we work on this together? And you know what, all parents are going to be embarrassed or defensive or anxious when they get that phone call.
DR. PINSKY: But they never say, not my kid. Tina, did you have any experience with this at all when you went to parents or have this even today now that you`re taking action where you`ve seen this happen?
MEIER: Well, in my case, you know, I knew the neighbor. So we did talk about it quite a bit. But now talking to other parents and other kids, when they`re going through these issues, a lot of parents do try to contact the other parents. And the parents are like you said, extremely defensive.
Well, my kid did it because your kid did it. Well, you know what`s the big deal you know kids are going to be kids. They`ll work it out themselves.
Those parents don`t understand that this is causing the other child trauma; that the children have to go every day to school and deal with this. So it`s important.
DR. PINSKY: It is a big deal. Tina, it is a big deal.
Stay right there. Everyone stay right there. We`ll continue in just a minute.
Don`t ever say, parents, not my kid either as the bullied or the bullier. Don`t say it. We`re back in a second.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DR. PINSKAY: I`m back with my panel right now. I want to talk to you about the cycle of bullying. Apparently Phoebe Prince, this is another victim of bullying, "Slate" online magazine reported that she herself may have been a bully back in Ireland before she moved to this country. Now she is a victim of bullying and eventually killed herself. Rosalind, do you see that often?
WISEMAN: I really think that that`s the thing we`re not talking about is that yes, there are cases where it`s one way but there are so many situations for kids where it`s so messy and where kids go that`s some things happen to them and if they have the right to be as mean as possible to other kids.
And that`s one of the things I think we don`t want to talk about because it`s so messy. I think that`s what we`ve got to get to so we truly understand how to help our kids and reach out to them.
DR. PINSKY: Right. So both the bullied kid and the bullier need help, wouldn`t you say that?
Wiseman: Absolutely. Of course.
DR. PINSKY: And the parents of all these kids as well. If I had a kid that was a bullier, I would want to know. I would want to participate in it.
Tina, I`ve a question for you. Apparently six students have been criminally charged in relation to Phoebe`s death, three were charged with second degree murder in Michael Brewer`s situation. Do you think criminally charging bullies is the best way to deal with this?
MEIER: I don`t know if it`s the best way to deal with it. Criminally charging them is not going to stop what happened. I think that they -- certainly charges need to be applied. I mean people have to understand there`s consequences. But they certainly need counseling because children -- every child, every person has bullied somebody at some point or been bullied. There are reasons behind it. So I think certainly they need, the bully and the bullier need counseling on both ends.
DR. PINSKY: That`s kind of an interesting statement to say that everybody may have been bullied or been a bullier once. Jodee, I have a question for you.
BLANCO: I want to jump in --
DR. PINSKY: Do you think the schools are finally taking this seriously enough?
BLANCO: Well, you know, I`m in schools all the time. And I think that schools are taking it seriously enough. But I think one of the issues is compassion. Remember, Dr. Drew, that bullying, I tell kids all across America, bullying is not just the mean things you do, it`s all the nice things you never do. Letting someone sit alone at lunch, letting someone walk to class alone, that exclusion and ostracism can be even more damaging than the overt, active abuse.
And the anti-bullying message has to start at home. Parents need to teach their kids empathy and compassion so when they enter the school building they have that sensitivity and they have that compassion for their classmates. But the problem is that those vital skills of the heart are not being taught in the home and it`s articulating itself in the schools.
DR. PINSKY: Rosalind, do you have other ways, prescriptive ways, to deal with this problem such.
WISEMAN: Yes, I think that you really don`t let your anxiety or your fear, or your wanting to protect your kids stop you from seeing what should be right in front of your eyes.
DR. PINSKY: And don`t you think sometimes we forget that young girls sometimes are some of the most brutal queen bees and wannabes, so to speak? They really get into the brutality of how they treat others?
WISEMAN: Absolutely. And I really wanted to -- I`ve got to tell you that parents -- you look at your kid at night and she`s tucked into her bed or your son and they`re so cut and they`re so lovely. They act totally differently or they have the potential to act totally differently at school. That`s very hard for a parent to understand. We`ve got to get it or else we are in these situations.
DR. PINSKY: That is a truth that applies throughout the life spine of raising children.
WISEMAN: Absolutely.
DR. PINSKY: So it`s something to keep in mind for all of us.
Thank you, ladies. We`ll be right back in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on the JOY BEHAR SHOW, Lindsay Lohan`s only been out for one day, but there`s already talk she`ll join "DANCING WITH THE STARS." So will her next move be a rumba or a foxtrot. Then the women of heart discuss life as the first ladies of rock. Now back to the show.
PINSKY: I didn`t expect to hear Lindsay and foxtrot in the same sentence. But welcome back to the JOY BEHAR SHOW, I`m Dr. Drew Pinsky. With her divorce now final, the ex-Mrs. Tiger Woods has decided to speak out giving a one-time only interview to "People" magazine. Elin Nordegren says although she`s been through hell she feels stronger than ever. Here with all the details is the woman who actually spoke with Elin, Sandra Sobierah Westfall Washington correspondent for "People" magazine. So Sandra, why do you think Elin has chosen to speak now?
SANDRA SOBIERAJ WESTFALL, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: You know, with the divorce now behind her, she`s ready to move on. But before she can do that, she wanted to set the record straight on a couple of very key points. And also with so much mystery surrounding her, so many stereotypes, that she`s aloof or an ice queen, she just wanted to let people see a little bit of who she really is, feel like she said her peace and move on to the next chapter.
PINSKY: All right so Sandra, you actually sat there eyeball to eyeball with her. Who is she really?
WESTFALL: She`s a very warm and engaging mother. She`s a psychological student, she`s somebody who`s very thoughtful. You know I would raise something in passing one day. And the next day she would say, you know I thought about what you said last night and I think I know the answer. Just very, very thoughtful. And I think you would appreciate that as a psychological student she was very methodical and academic almost in how she approached healing and coping with the stress.
PINSKY: Well I think that`s nice on one hand. On the other, for people that kind of have the personality constructs that I think she has, that can be a problem. It gets in the way of treatment sometimes. But she also values treatment. I know in the article you talk about how she`s committed herself to psychotherapy.
WESTFALL: Well she was very open about that. She said, I know a lot of people don`t like to admit they`re seeking counseling. But as a psychology student I believe in it. And I`m not ashamed to say I need help to get through this. Anybody would. And she actually said she thinks probably everybody on the planet should be seeing a counselor. Even if they are good.
PINSKY: All right now, she said she was blind-sided by Tiger`s transgressions? Is that true and how did she react?
WESTFALL: You know she said her nightmare in all of this began on Thanksgiving Day. So I presume that means that was when she first found out. And she said, I feel stupid to have to admit this, but I never suspected a thing. And that was one of the key issues that she wanted to resolve by speaking out. That anybody would think she turned a blind eye and tacitly condoned his behavior was absolutely not true.
PINSKY: And I`ve got to tell you, that`s typical of women that are involved with men like this. They`re in denial for a long time. And then all of a sudden, there`s a moment when their world crashes down. She does talk about that a bit in the article. She also talked about wanting to set the record straight about the violence that was alleged.
WESTFALL: Yes absolutely. She said that, in fact, was the hardest part of what she was hearing out there in the chatter and the coverage of the scandal, was that people thought she took a golf club to her husband. She said, that`s just ridiculous. I`ve never been violent. There`s never been violence inside or outside our home. All I did that night was go to look for him. And I did everything I could to get him out of a locked car.
PINSKY: Did you ask her who took the golf club to the car window?
WESTFALL: We did not get into the blow-by-blow details.
PINSKY: All right interesting. What`s her plans for the future?
WESTFALL: She wants to get her bachelor`s degree and go on to get her Master`s degree and then find somehow to put that education to use to help actually children of broken families that are having trouble adjusting. She`s not quite sure how she`s going to do that. In the immediate future, she would actually like to take a semester off so that she can spend some time just healing. She said she`s kept herself too busy the last nine months just so she didn`t necessarily have to face the reality of what`s happened. Now that the divorce is final, she wants to take a breather. And then she`s going to look for a house in Southern Florida where her husband is relocating, to the home they thought they were building for the four of them. But she`s going to move the children down there so they can be close.
PINSKY: Thanks. Well thanks Sandra I appreciate it. I want to bring my panel in to discuss this a little more. Joining me is Joe Levy, editor- in-chief of "Maxim" magazine, we also have writer and comedian Jessi Klein. And we have Jonathan Cheban, star of "The Spin Crowd." Now Jonathan we are going to start with you. It seemed like a perfectly carefully crafted interview. For instance, where was that golf club and how did that window get broken? Are you surprised that she`s speaking out now? Do you think it was a carefully edited interview?
JONATHAN CHEBAN, STAR, "THE SPIN CROWD": I think it was definitely edited but I think this was definitely the time. People were looking at her. She was almost having a negative look on her. She`s always frozen every picture. There is no emotion. People wanted that emotion out of her. And I think this kind of just releases everything. She`s human. The pictures with the kids.
PINSKY: So you liked the article. You felt she came through as a warm person.
CHEBAN: Yes she does.
PINSKY: I think that`s true. Joe, are you surprised she was blind- sided? Do you believe that?
JOE LEVY, EIDTOR-IN-CHIEF, "MAXIM" MAGAZINE: I mean you put it very well. People who are in this situation, sometimes there`s a clue. Maybe there`s a clue that the Perkins waitress is bringing more than donuts to your husband -
PINSKY: But you deny it.
LEVY: But you ignore. You ignore it -
PINSKY: You ignore it, right.
LEVY: It until you can`t ignore it anymore. This was a very carefully crafted interview as "People" magazine admits. They sat with her, asked her the questions. And she reserved the right to go back and write out her answers. Because she says her spoken English is not quite as good as her written English. So it`s definitely --
PINSKY: Suspect.
LEVY: She had a chance to edit her own answers. It comes through in the interview.
PINSKY: And you know Jesse, she doesn`t bad-mouth Tiger really at all. She talks about forgiveness and what not. Does that surprise you?
JESSI KLEIN, WRITER/COMEDIAN: It doesn`t so much surprise me as disappoint me.
PINSKY: Do you think that was part of the deal? Or you think she was paid for that maybe?
KLEIN: I don`t know, I would just say in terms of my disappointments in her, I do wish that she kind of owned that she hit him with a golf club, because I think he deserved it. I don`t think people usually deserve violence.
PINSKY: So Jessi if that had been your husband, you would have hit him with a golf club?
KLEIN: Yes.
PINSKY: And you would have probably stood up.
KLEIN: Not to kill him, to leave a mark.
CHEBAN: Leave the golf ball.
KLEIN: Yes.
PINSKY: You would have gone for the driver, right?
KLEIN: I`d just want him to remember me for a couple of days.
PINSKY: You know one of the things that jumped out to me in the article is she talked about the "SATURDAY NIGHT LIFE" and "SOUTH PARK" parodies Elin. Did that surprise you that she is humorous?
LEVY: She said she`s seen them and she can actually laugh at them. Actually that`s one of the most endearing - endearing is the wrong word. But it is one of the parts that made me like her the best. Because she`s not lashing out at what`s directed on her. And shows a really grounded person to say, yes, I saw myself on "SOUTH PARK." They were funny. And it was funny.
PINSKY: All right Jessi, you`re the woman on the panel.
KLEIN: Thanks.
PINSKY: Well I mean you`re a woman and lovely woman.
KLEIN: Thank you.
PINSKY: And should she find forgiveness? Are other women going to be angry and dissatisfied with just this interview? Do they want to hear more? Do they want blood?
KLEIN: I don`t know about blood. You know the only thing that really bothers me is the woman on the panel is when people say, there`s no way she was blind-sided. Because --
PINSKY: That happens all the time.
KLEIN: It`s not like she married Charlie Sheen. She married the most respected athlete in the world. It seemed like he was going to be OK.
PINSKY: All right we are going to talk about Lindsay Lohan next. She left treatment. And so now naturally rumors are now running high, for instance, she might join the cast of "DANCING WITH THE STARS." And of course, Donald Trump now is in the mix saying that "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE." might want her. So now Jonathan, you know Lindsay apparently. Do you think she would really contemplate "DANCING WITH THE STARS?"
CHEBAN: No way.
PINSKY: No way.
CHEBAN: She`s going to stick to acting. Hopefully she`ll go out and do a great independent film. Get some credibility back. This is her great chance to do her big come back. She served the time. You know this is it. This is her big chance. If she messes up this time, I don`t know if the country will forgive her again.
PINSKY: And then really she`s can`t leave the Los Angeles area she`s been court-mandated treatment there in Southern California. She`s going to stay. Joe I have a question about -- LEVY: They say they are going to film, "DANCING WITH THE STARS" in L.A. -
PINSKY: I`m not sure the court is going to look favorably upon the -
LEVY: It`s a crazy idea.
PINSKY: It`s a crazy idea. I agree. How about going on "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE"? I mean here`s the thing with me and Trump. He criticized Rachel Uchitel for coming on our program to get treatment -
LEVY: Right.
PINSKY: As opposed to going on his show when she is still in trouble -
LEVY: Getting treatment bad - coming on Donald Trump show and helping him earn money, good.
PINSKY: Thank you. That`s sort of my logic. And by the way taking Lindsay who is in treatment and under way, taking her prematurely, do you think he would do that?
LEVY: No, Dr. Drew you know the answer to this best. Is it really a good idea for someone who has struggled with whatever issue she has struggled with to go on a competition show to face that kind of pressure?
PINSKY: Right.
LEVY: Well, you know, we might be voting you off. So you know, just have some water and think that over. I don`t think so.
(CROSSTALK)
CHEBAN: Show - because I just filmed one. It could set somebody back.
PINSKY: Yes reality shows are very -
CHEBAN: That`s a lot of work, 16 hours a day. And it`s seven, eight, nine weeks every single day. Not good for Lindsay. She needs to, you know, smooth into this.
PINSKY: But Jessi, what would you like to see her?
KLEIN: What would I like to see Lindsay on? Oh I just want to see Lindsay on the path to getting better. And I feel if anything, she just needs more family members talking about her on TV. Because that`s obviously helping the most so just all cousins, nephews, nieces.
PINSKY: Apparently the situation, and possibly even Hasselhoff maybe on "DANCING WITH THE STARS." is that a good thing?
KLEIN: He`s still beating her -
LEVY: My tongue deeply embedded in my cheek thank you.
PINSKY: All right guys, let`s leave it at that. Thank you everyone. Catch Jonathan on "The Spin Crowd" Sunday at 10:30 on "E." Up next, we have Joy`s interview with rock icons, Ann and Nancy Wilson of Heart.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: They are the first ladies of rock with a string of top 40 hits and over 30 million albums sold with their band Heart. Their latest album "Red Velvet Heart" is out next week. Nancy and Ann Wilson of Heart sat down with Joy for their first interview about the new release.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEHAR: I`m such a fan of your music. I love "These Dreams." my favorite.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
BEHAR: It just makes you want to which sex.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Now this new album, Nancy, you said that this is such a good album for the times. Explain yourself.
NANCY WILSON, SINGER/MUSICIAN: Well, I think you know, in this time, something that`s a little bit like people that actually sing, actually play.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
N. WILSON: It`s not a digital construct. It`s the real thing.
BEHAR: The real deal, like it always was with you guys.
N. WILSON: It was.
BEHAR: And all the great acts.
N. WILSON: I think that`s a difference compared to a lot of the kind of the more disposable stuff that`s just in and out of here so fast.
BEHAR: Right.
N. WILSON: You know a lot of this culture is -- pop culture is so disposable right now.
BEHAR: It is.
N. WILSON: And so there`s a little extra hello for bands like heart who have been around long enough to say, we actually have some history to bring to it.
BEHAR: Yes and you do. There are older acts like the "Rolling Stones" are still around.
N. WILSON: Exactly.
BEHAR: The women like Pat Benatar, Joan Jett are still going strong. It`s great to see that.
ANN WILSON, SINGER/MUSICIAN: Yes, I saw Pat on your show, she was great - I mean.
BEHAR: She`s great. She`s touring.
N. WILSON: Oh, yes. Just trying to get rid of us.
BEHAR: I guess talent is talent.
A. WILSON: You know how women are. I`m still here
BEHAR: When you started out in the `70s though, I mean most of the rock bands were guys.
N. WILSON: They still are.
BEHAR: How did you get through you that? How did you deal?
A. WILSON: We didn`t really understand. We started so young, like when we were children, we didn`t understand that we were supposed to not do it.
BEHAR: What, were you in your teens still?
A. WILSON: She was, like, eight.
N. WILSON: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: What do you mean your eight?
N. WILSON: Picked up guitars, we saw the "Beatles" on the "ED SULLIVAN SHOW."
BEHAR: Oh you mean when you started to play.
N. WILSON: We got the idea that we were going to do this.
BEHAR: You knew each other then too?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But the Stones, and the Beatles, Crosby, Stills and Nash. A lot of drugs in those days. Did you guys have any of that in your background?
A. WILSON: Not in the beginning. Because we had boyfriends. They precluded the drugs. I think that came in the bad old days of the `80s. That went away. We lived to tell on that one, definitely.
BEHAR: But your group stayed together.
A. WILSON: Yes.
BEHAR: Nobody got fired. There wasn`t like any meltdowns.
N. WILSON: Well, I wouldn`t say --
BEHAR: There were lots of meltdowns.
A. WILSON: Nancy and I had a mass firing one time.
BEHAR: Oh really?
A. WILSON: It was at the end of the `70s.
N. WILSON: the first life span was over.
A. WILSON: Yes. We had a Black Friday type thing where it was, OK, here`s who`s gone. You, you, you, you.
BEHAR: Really?
A. WILSON: Then we kind of started all over. We need to purge. But we don`t do that kind of thing lightly because people work hard.
N. WILSON: We always strive to have a Democratic spirit in your band. Because we are sisters we approach it that way.
BEHAR: But you two didn`t have any fights. You didn`t have sibling rivalry, like you`re singing more than I am? You got --
A. WILSON: You`re getting more attention from mom?
BEHAR: Yes.
A. WILSON: Mom loves her the most?
BEHAR: Did you, any of that?
A. WILSON: You know, I don`t think so.
N. WILSON: Not really.
A. WILSON: At worst, we get kind of frosty. We try to be leaders --
BEHAR: There`s no projectile vomiting on each other. You know what I mean? You just kind of chill?
N. WILSON: Right. We`re not Italian and yelling. We kind of shut down and carry it around for ten years, you know. Which we`re kind of working through you that stuff still. But you know it`s --
BEHAR: It`s not easy.
N. WILSON: Yes. We do know how to lead the band. We come from a Marine Corps family. We started traveling in a tight-knit group. We started traveling as kids, as babies. So I think the ethic of that stuck with us.
BEHAR: I was reading that both of you actually were a little ticked off at Sarah Palin for using your song "Barracuda" without permission.
A. WILSON: Yes. That kind of ambushed us. We were on tour during the election and all the stuff that lead up to that. And we were on the tour bus one day and they played it at the Republican convention. And we kind of went, what?
N. WILSON: What?
A. WILSON: You know. Our first reaction was to say, well, you could have asked us, you know. And then we could have said no.
BEHAR: At least you ask.
A. WILSON: It doesn`t represent that thing. That song does not.
BEHAR: What thing?
N. WILSON: There`s so many -
A. WILSON: The Republican way of -- especially you know Sarah Palin`s --
N. WILSON: The super right.
A. WILSON: Whole idealism isn`t represented by the song "Barracuda".
BEHAR: Why does she think it was flattering anyway?
A. WILSON: I think in high school that was her basketball name. Let`s go Barracuda.
N. WILSON: Yes, yes, yes.
BEHAR: You know Bruce Springsteen had the issue with "Born In The USA" with Reagan. He didn`t like that either.
N. WILSON: And Tom Heady and -
BEHAR: Yes.
N. WILSON: A lot of people.
BEHAR: Do you think most rockers are on the Left?
A. WILSON: Well I don`t know about that. What about Ted Nugent?
N. WILSON: Not really.
BEHAR: Oh he`s a Right winger.
N. WILSON: But there are a lot of southern boys too.
A. WILSON: About the songs, they are out there in the culture. And you can`t put the genie back into the bottle. They`re kind of out there. And it`s hopeless to say don`t use it.
BEHAR: But they should have asked you.
A. WILSON: But at least we raised our voice.
BEHAR: That`s right.
N. WILSON: But the more we complain about it, maybe someday that will be different for other artists that feel misrepresented.
BEHAR: How do you feel about Obama using your music, would that be OK?
A. WILSON: Yes that would be OK.
BEHAR: Because you agree with him? You like him.
A. WILSON: Well, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I mean Dreams would be a great one for him. Like Clinton used Fleetwood Mac.
A. WILSON: Yes.
BEHAR: "Don`t Stop Anything About Tomorrow" because it was a great song for that.
A. WILSON: Yes.
N. WILSON: We could write a song for Obama, called "Change." You know something about change. Ch-ch-ch-change.
BEHAR: OK more with the ladies of heart in just a minute. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEAHR: We`re back with Ann and Nancy Wilson of Heart. Before we go, I understand, Ann, you battled, you had the lap band surgery.
A. WILSON: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: Tell me a little about that.
A. WILSON: I thought it was a good thing. It`s a tool. It isn`t like a quick fix at all. It`s a tool that helps you learn how to control your eating, which I felt it really did. I think if I hadn`t done that, you know, it would not been good. There was a time I need someday kind of you know intervention. And it really did help me learn how to just slow down, to be conscious, to be aware. That`s all I needed.
BEHAR: It`s very popular. A lot of people are doing it.
A. WILSON: Yes.
BEHAR: The gastric bypass, a little more severe.
A. WILSON: Yes that was like way too heavy for me. I didn`t want to go there.
BEHAR: Yes.
A. WILSON: The lap band is reversible.
BEHAR: Right.
A. WILSON: It`s like - it`s something that you can use in life and take as much or as little of as possible and it`s not unhealthy.
BEHAR: Yes.
A. WILSON: You still assimilate vitamins and it`s good for you.
BEHAR: Right, right. You want to stay alive so you can continue your wonderful career.
A. WILSON: Absolutely.
N. WILSON: Yes.
BEHAR: A couple of Facebook questions for you. These are from you know people who write in and they are so interested in you. They supported Led Zeppelin. Did they ever get it on with Robert Plant? Both of them? Who wrote this?
N. WILSON: We`re joined at the hip.
BEHAR: All at once.
A. WILSON: What do they mean by get it on, like on iron chef? Let`s get it on.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Yes, you know, like that. Sorry.
N. WILSON: No we never -
A. WILSON: I think Plant is pretty - he`s a pretty shall we say, withdrawn-type character. He doesn`t go around saying, let`s get it on.
BEHAR: He doesn`t? So the answer is no?
A. WILSON: No.
BEHAR: The answer is no. OK
N. WILSON: Sorry.
BEHAR: Next question. Do you think you could be as successful if you were trying to break into the industry today?
N. WILSON: That`s a good question.
A. WILSON: That`s a good question.
BEHAR: Because timing is everything in the industry and in life.
N. WILSON: Well there`s so much luck in timing. Yes but I think nothing really substitutes in the end for a really good voice and a really good song.
BEHAR: That`s right.
N. WILSON: You know that`s what sticks it out through the ages.
BEHAR: Right.
N. WILSON: There`s still a lot of songs that are still here from many generations.
BEHAR: When I listen to Sirius radio, there are some one-hit wonder. But then the groups like yours that of tremendous staying power with great songs.
N. WILSON: It`s so funny what you remember that echoes through time. Other things you hear again, you go, wow, ii remember that but it didn`t stick. So it just interesting. We hope to be some of the ones that stick.
BEHAR: Who do you love? Who did you listen to?
A. WILSON: Lucinda Williams.
N. WILSON: Lucinda Williams, Emmy Lou Harris and Paul Simon, The Beatles, still.
BEHAR: They`re still great at.
A. WILSON: I love that Alison Krauss and Robert Plant album. That was classic.
N. WILSON: We listen to all kinds of stuff. We grew up with everything from opera and Ray Charles and Aretha Franklin. Pretty much everything except jazz.
BEHAR: You don`t listen to jazz?
N. WILSON: Not much jazz.
BEHAR: Really.
N. WILSON: Early jazz?
A. WILSON: Not by choice. I don`t listen to it on purpose.
N. WILSON: We could start now.
BEHAR: Only one more question. At any point in your career, did you ever think that your hair was too big someone wants to know?
N. WILSON: Never.
A. WILSON: Never. Never. Cannot get enough volume.
BEHAR: Thank you so much, ladies, for joining me tonight. Heart, I loved having you.
N. WILSON: Thank you.
BEHAR: Heart`s new album, "Red Velvet Car" is out on August 31st. Good night everybody.
END
