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Joy Behar Page
Cyndi Lauper Having Fun; Lips Unsealed
Aired September 03, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Cyndi Lauper`s got a new CD. And believe it or not it`s a blues album called "Memphis Blues". She went from "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" to "Shattered Dreams".
Is she eager to show up her versatility or is the Prozac just not working, Cyndi?
CYNDI LAUPER, SINGER: All right. No, I can`t take the Prozac. Yes.
BEHAR: No, no, no, no.
LAUPER: I can`t stand still that long.
BEHAR: To take the pill?
LAUPER: Well, yes, that, too.
BEHAR: Well it doesn`t make you a zombie. It just reorganizes your brain in some way, that`s all.
LAUPER: But what would I do if it was reorganized? I wouldn`t be able to write or --
BEHAR: You might be able to write but, I don`t know. I`m not an expert on any of that. Now you know, you`ve always been like a fashion- forward pop star. You always have like a look about you that`s gorgeous.
Now, here you are on the cover of "Rolling Stone" in 1984. Let`s look at that. Look at that picture. Now how do you feel when you see that picture?
LAUPER: Well, you know --
BEHAR: Look at you.
LAUPER: I was doing a whole anti-fashion thing at the time. And there were so many cute pictures that we took. The day I saw that picture, I was crying.
BEHAR: Why?
LAUPER: Because I thought that they just wanted me to be the ugly one.
BEHAR: Oh, how could you be ugly? You`re so pretty.
LAUPER: Well, you know, they painted me. What do you mean? I`m a sculptor. I`m a piece of artwork. I don`t really look like this.
BEHAR: Yes, you do.
LAUPER: Oh, yes, you see me on your show. Well, you know, that`s a little different.
BEHAR: But you don`t like the way you look.
But that`s interesting because the new cover of "Rolling Stone" has Lady Gaga on it. And she -- look at the picture of her. She seems to sort of be from a similar cloth, you know. A little bit wacky and out there like you were in 1984.
LAUPER: Well, I think she also like --
BEHAR: But she has guns on her boobs. I mean what`s that about?
LAUPER: And Madonna had the same kind of thing with the Gautier.
BEHAR: Yes, that she did. She had those bullet (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and those were interesting.
LAUPER: I know. But what`s the big deal? Come on.
BEHAR: Oh, this is so cute.
LAUPER: Right? That`s cute.
BEHAR: Who`s is this?
LAUPER: Mine.
BEHAR: I love this.
LAUPER: But you know --
BEHAR: Can I wear this to the Emmys?
LAUPER: You can wear that over your dress. Why not?
BEHAR: That is some brassiere. I love it.
LAUPER: Right. That`s going to be colorful.
BEHAR: But you know the girls today who are in the music business who are coming up now --
LAUPER: Yes.
BEHAR: They seem to need to be crazier and wackier than ever. You know they`re getting called on the carpet for blaspheming the Catholic Church and having sex with rosary beads and God knows what else they`re doing. You know, crazy stuff.
LAUPER: They`re having sex with rosary beads?
BEHAR: Well not exactly like that. But it looks like that. You know, very revealing clothing and they`re flipping the bird. And they are doing crazy things.
LAUPER: Are you talking about Gaga? She never has off -- not one day off.
BEHAR: Not just Gaga, there`s Miley Cyrus who`s in a little bit of hot water for kissing a girl. They seem to have to raise the ante in order to get noticed.
LAUPER: Yes but, you see, Miley`s coming out of that whole child star thing. She`s, you know, who knows what the heck? And also she`s growing up in front of everybody. It`s hard. You know, when you become famous, they don`t give you a handbook.
BEHAR: No, they don`t.
LAUPER: You know, like what to do when somebody`s just up in your face taking picture, taking picture. Either I`m going to kiss a girl, I`m going to tongue kiss a dog, I`m going to do something really awful so they go away. Because when you work every day, every day, every day, how can you be gracious all the time?
BEHAR: Yes. No -- but I`m not talking really only just about her moods. I`m talking about the fact that they have to be outrageous to get attention. It`s not about the music.
Sarah Vaughan, Dina Washington, Ella Fitzgerald, Rosy, I could name a million of them. They all -- all they did was sing. Now that`s not enough, right?
LAUPER: Well you know everybody said that about me. And they didn`t think I could sing because of my clothes. Somebody actually said this: I couldn`t hear her singing because her clothes were so loud. And I was like, are you kidding me? I don`t want to put the shroud on myself and become like a plain Jane.
BEHAR: No, no, I don`t think there`s any danger of that happening.
LAUPER: I feel plain sometimes.
BEHAR: Really?
LAUPER: Yes. Yes.
BEHAR: Now, you know, you`re a pop star. And your last CD was a dance album.
LAUPER: Yes.
BEHAR: Now, you have a blues album. You keep changing it up, huh?
LAUPER: Well, the blues is the basis of all of it anyway. So it`s like --
BEHAR: Right.
LAUPER: Like going home, back to basics. And you know, I was on the "Apprentice". I was telling you before that I lost my voice speaking. Actually, my teacher`s probably watching me. Make sure shoulders, yawn a bit, OK.
BEHAR: Why did you lose your voice?
LAUPER: I don`t -- apparently I don`t know how to speak.
BEHAR: Were you yelling at somebody?
LAUPER: No, I hold my breath. I don`t have enough -- I don`t, you know, when you --
BEHAR: No breath control.
LAUPER: Talk past your air. You see? I thought I had big breaths.
BEHAR: Now, you know, you`ve said that this album -- I want to talk about your album for this segment because it`s interesting because "Memphis Blues", you`re saying that it`s the right album for the right time. What do you mean by that?
LAUPER: Because America is singing the blues. Because when I was done with the "Apprentice" thing and by the time I could talk again -- and, I`m sorry, speak, excuse my mouth. OK, but I looked around me, and you know, poor New Orleans, they`re not going to -- you know, come on.
So, I found I was listening to this music and the best part of blues is it`s uplifting.
BEHAR: Yes.
LAUPER: And you know, they wrote in code. And this was an oppressed people who wrote uplifting things about their misery. And they wrote it in a way that by the time you`re done with the song, you feel better.
BEHAR: That`s right. That`s a good idea, isn`t it?
LAUPER: Well, I think they`re awesome. So, I went to the Civil Rights Museum when I went to Memphis. And I relived my childhood a little bit looking at everything. Because I was a kid then thinking I`m on the wrong side and the white people are crazy. You know, because --
BEHAR: Is that what you thought?
LAUPER: Well, yeah. I couldn`t understand. Because you know, when you turn on the radio and the best stuff is from the African-American people.
BEHAR: That`s true.
LAUPER: I`m listening to that going, yes. And then they got a problem with them. Then, they go to the beach. Why are you going to the beach? Because they want their skin to be really dark. Now, the people whose skin is naturally dark, they got a problem with those people.
BEHAR: It`s too confusing for white people, isn`t it?
BEHAR: Let`s look at your new viral video campaign called "Give a Damn". Watch this.
LAUPER: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m straight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m gay.
ELTON JOHN, SINGER: And I give a damn about equality.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Want to know why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because you can be fired in over half the states in this country for being gay or transgender.
WANDA SYKES, COMEDIAN: It`s time for things to change.
JOHN: We all have to get involved.
LAUPER: We all have to give a damn.
SHARON OSBOURNE, REALITY TV STAR: We give a damn.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: It`s important to have straight allies, isn`t it, in the gay movement?
LAUPER: That`s what this is about. I did the whole "Apprentice" thing to go on national TV and say, there is a large population in our country that does not have civil rights, and that`s the gay community.
BEHAR: Right.
LAUPER: And I couldn`t believe -- I did it. I did it live, too. Yes, I was like yes. And it afforded me to be able to kick off the "Give a Damn" campaign, which is all about everybody telling their stories and getting your straight allies in there. Because in every civil rights movement, when I was growing up, I saw white people and black people marching, saying "this is not right".
BEHAR: Right.
LAUPER: And it isn`t right. And also, here`s the other thing, even if you are thinking selfishly, right? Fine. You know, we`re a free country, except for you guys over there.
Well, that`s all well and good, until you`re standing over there and it`s for some ridiculous reason that everybody decides to pick on you.
BEHAR: That`s right.
LAUPER: You`re either a free country or you`re not a free country. If somebody isn`t free in your country that means your freedom is up for grabs.
BEHAR: That`s true. That`s true.
You know I want to ask you about Elton John. You know he recently performed for Rush Limbaugh for a million bucks. How much would they have to pay you to do that?
LAUPER: Well, he`s all about mending bridges.
BEHAR: Who, Elton?
LAUPER: Yes. He`s about, if I perform for this man who maybe is not really close to someone and he feels a kinship with Elton John? This is Rush Limbaugh feeling --
BEHAR: Yes.
LAUPER: A kinship with a gay man, right? Well, instead of slamming the door closed, he went to go widen the gap.
BEHAR: Right, so would you do it?
LAUPER: Me? I don`t know. I don`t know. I have a big mouth. And I don`t -- I`m not always like I`m not always the calm, gracious person. I always have to go back and rethink, you know.
Like Kung Fu Panda, I always -- and master Shifu at the same time going on right here. Always going, focus, focus, and the other guy going, oh, my God. You know? I don`t know. I know my friends do stuff. Shaggy goes to the Mideast, takes the money and puts it into the Caribbean Children`s Fund.
BEHAR: Yes, of course. I would assume you`d put it in your fund.
LAUPER: Yes.
BEHAR: I perform also, I`m a stand-up, you know? And I would do it if Glenn Beck married Rush Limbaugh.
LAUPER: Really? Glenn Beck.
BEHAR: I`d do it for 50 bucks if he did that.
LAUPER: Yes, I don`t think he`d marry him, though. Maybe he`s too tall.
BEHAR: He`s not his type.
Now, you talked about "Celebrity Apprentice" before. Did you enjoy doing that? How did you -- did you like it?
LAUPER: Well, I got to hang out with Sharon. Sharon is such -- oh, she`s such a hoot. We laughed --
BEHAR: Who?
LAUPER: -- so hard. Sharon Osbourne.
BEHAR: Oh, Sharon Osbourne.
LAUPER: Oh my God she so funny. And the two of us, we -- we laughed quite a bit. And you know, I got to say gay rights --
BEHAR: Right.
LAUPER: -- on -- on national television prime time. That`s pretty darn good.
BEHAR: But was it fun too?
LAUPER: Well --
BEHAR: Not really.
LAUPER: -- there were moments that were fun.
BEHAR: Yes.
LAUPER: And then --
BEHAR: When you were laughing with Sharon, but I mean, besides that - -
LAUPER: It was --
BEHAR: -- the job that you had to do and all that stuff, was that fun?
LAUPER: Well, they`re 18-hour days, six days a week. And eventually --
BEHAR: Wow.
LAUPER: -- you all want to kill each other. And you know, you can`t sit and eat because you have no time because then you got to go talk. And you`re always talking.
BEHAR: Yes, it`s tough.
LAUPER: And so I had -- I had a hard time.
But would I do it again? Yes. Did it help me? Yes. I went down to Memphis. I did this in two and half weeks. And when -- every day if I hit adversity -- you know we hit adversity anyway, because you`re in entertainment. You always have that.
BEHAR: Yes.
LAUPER: But if you -- in the -- in the "Apprentice" it was like every day is another thing of adversity. Ok, you regroup.
BEHAR: Yes.
LAUPER: So that`s -- it helped me. It helped me to regroup.
BEHAR: I`m glad it helped you, because you might even be doing another reality show, which we`ll talk about next time you come because we`ve run out of time.
LAUPER: I know I signed with Mark Burnett.
BEHAR: That`s true.
LAUPER: They want a reality show on moi.
BEHAR: Oh, my God.
LAUPER: Oh, my God.
BEHAR: Well, thanks for joining me anyway Cyndi. I`m glad you came by. And her new album is "Memphis Blues."
Up next: from the Go-Gos, singer Belinda Carlisle.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
((BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BELINDA CARLISLE PERFORMING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Well, the Go-Gos` Belinda Carlisle went from valley girl to rock star to hell and back and she describes her journey in her new memoir "Lips Unsealed". With me is Belinda Carlisle.
Welcome Belinda.
BELINDA CARLISLE, AUTHOR, "LIPS UNSEALED": Hi.
BEHAR: Now first of all, what are you -- what`s your response when you see yourself in those clips?
CARLISLE: God, I was so young. We were so cute. It seems like yesterday.
BEHAR: It seems like yesterday. Yes, I know.
CARLISLE: Yes.
BEHAR: I know that feeling.
Now you grew up in southern California, and your -- I was reading your book. So the biological father leaves at five.
CARLISLE: Right.
BEHAR: And in moves the stepfather.
So that -- how did that affect you as a child? Have you ever thought about that?
CARLISLE: Well I never really understood why my father left in the first place. Nothing was ever really explained to me so I was just sort of sitting and waiting for him to come home. And --
BEHAR: Well it sounds like your mother was having an affair with this Walt.
CARLISLE: Well, she might -- I don`t know what was going on but probably they had a friendship. She was lonely. My father was never there and possibly, quite possibly.
BEHAR: Yes, why was he never there? Was he working somewhere?
CARLISLE: He was a traveling salesman. He sold vacuum cleaners.
BEHAR: Oh the old traveling salesman -- story.
But, now -- your mother remarried? She married this guy, Walt.
CARLISLE: Yes, she married the man -- our neighbor, the man across the street. And, yes, I mean, nothing was ever really explained. He`s amazing now. I mean, he`s -- he`s -- he`s sober.
But it was pretty rough going for my childhood. It was -- he was, you know, an alcoholic. He was abusive and it was -- it was my mother was trying to raise five kids. Turned into seven at some point but it was five.
BEAHR: It turned into seven.
CARLISLE: Well I`m the oldest of seven and after I left she had two more. So, yes, it was a pretty tumultuous childhood.
BEHAR: So he was abusive when he was drunk?
CARLISLE: Yes when he was drinking yes.
BEHAR: What type of abuse? Beatings?
CARLISLE: Well it was, lots of -- the belt --
BEHAR: The belt.
CARLISLE: Yes and a lot of emotional abuse too. But -- like I said, I mean, it`s -- it`s another case of, you know, alcoholics obscuring the amazing person underneath.
I mean, now I can`t -- you wouldn`t even imagine the man being able to do anything like that.
BEHAR: Now he`s sober?
CARLISLE: Yes and he`s great, yes.
BEHAR: And he`s fine.
CARLISLE: And he`s -- remorseful of course.
BEHAR: He`s feels bad about what he did to you, kids.
CARLISLE: Of course, of course, yes.
BEHAR: A lot of -- beatings with a belt?
CARLISLE: Yes, well, it was kind of done back then.
BEHAR: It was done back then?
CARLISLE: It was done back then. I think -- I think, I know. It was. There wasn`t a whole lot of taboo I think on hitting and spanking your kids, so but with a belt that`s pretty hard core.
BEHAR: And your mother, she did not get involved at all in the --
CARLISLE: Well I think she was afraid to rock the boat because she was trying to raise kids and my father was the breadwinner and you know she was sort of torn between trying to survive -- survive. And you know I felt bad for her. She did the best she could.
BEHAR: I think I read in the book -- correct me if I`m wrong -- that she heard somebody on television say it was ok to hit kids.
CARLISLE: Yes it was, yes.
BEHAR: See this is why I don`t like to put -- I hate it when people on television say that it`s ok to spank or hit children because people like your mother feel, well, it`s ok.
CARLISLE: It`s ok.
BEHAR: And let them --
CARLISLE: It`s done for a purpose, yes.
BEHAR: Yes and that`s why I object to that. So I wanted to just put that out there.
CARLISLE: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: Now -- so now -- then you developed a cocaine addiction --
CARLISLE: Right.
BEHAR: -- and you had one for 30 years.
CARLISLE: For 30 years.
BEHAR: Where did you get the money to all that coke?
CARLISLE: Well, I mean, I -- the first time I did -- did cocaine, I couldn`t afford it but I thought one day when I can -- and when I do have money I`m going to buy lots of it because I like this.
BEHAR: You really liked it, you really liked it?
CARLISLE: Yes. And -- but you know, it`s -- it`s -- the fun wore off pretty quickly. I was pretty much an instant addict when I look back. I spent all my money on it. And -- and you know, for years I was able to afford -- afford it, afford a good habit. And I spent pretty much every dime on --
BEHAR: On drugs.
CARLISLE: -- on coke and the behavior that went along with it, which was pretty crazy; racehorses and you know spur of the moment first class tickets to Japan, things like that.
Which you know --
BEHAR: Yes.
CARLISLE: -- it`s pretty wasteful.
BEHAR: All that acting out.
CARLISLE: Yes.
BEHAR: Which really probably had some connection to your childhood. I mean --
CARLISLE: Oh, definitely.
BEHAR: Yes.
CARLISLE: It`s -- it`s -- you know, it`s -- I think when I -- when I dug deep after I became sober and -- and sort of -- to figure out and ask questions why I was like that, I didn`t think I -- all those father issues and all those abuse issues really affected me. I thought been there, done that, it`s ok, I forgive --
BEHAR: Yes.
CARLISLE: -- but it really does affect a kid and as an adult.
BEHAR: Yes it certainly does.
CARLISLE: Yes.
BEHAR: In fact there was something in the book about you were being interviewed on the red carpet by Maurice Gibb, one of the Bee Gees --
CARLISLE: Right.
BEHAR: -- and he told you there`s stuff on your nose.
CARLISLE: Yes. Well, I had a heavy -- a heavy habit for 30 years. There`s five years that I stopped, but you know, what can I say?
BEHAR: Ok sit right there.
We`re going to come back with more on Belinda Carlisle`s story after this quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m back with the talented Belinda Carlisle. And we`re talking about her new memoir, "Lips Unsealed".
Let`s talk about your husband a little bit because he fascinated me. First of all he is the son of James Mason, James Mason.
CARLISLE: Right.
BEHAR: The actor. His name is Morgan Mason.
CARLISLE: Right.
BEHAR: You`ve been married to him how long?
CARLISLE: We`ve been married for 24 years. We`ve been together 26 1/2.
BEHAR: Right and you have children with him?
CARLISLE: I have an 18-year-old son.
BEHAR: Right. And during the marriage, I was reading you basically would sneak the coke even during the marriage and he never even caught on.
CARLISLE: Well because we live in South of France and I purposely never had a connection there, so I could go off and travel. In the nature of my work, I travel a lot; I would have all my connections in other cities. I never -- I was afraid he would find out my secret when I was home. I wasn`t that good at hiding it. He busted me quite a few times.
BEHAR: He busted you a few times.
CARLISLE: And I`d always promised that I would stop like an addict does and I`ll never do it again. And I meant every promise I made, I just couldn`t keep them.
BEHAR: You also have issues with weight also.
CARLISLE: Right.
BEHAR: So what`s that addiction about?
CARLISLE: Well I mean I was always normal, I wouldn`t even say, you know, chubby. And I -- I mean I had you know, I always had baby fat. When I -- I never had a problem with my weight. When the Go-Gos became famous, the media had a problem with my weight.
So everything was always, my name was mentioned with -- weight was synonymous with my name. She`s cute chubby, she`s pretty plump, she`s svelte, voluptuous, buxom -- I mean it was just -- I ran the gamut.
BEHAR: And nobody asked of it of the other girls.
CARLISLE: No.
BEHAR: Just you.
CARLISLE: And that does things to your head after a while. You know and that was one of the reasons why I liked drugs is because I didn`t eat when I was doing cocaine.
BEHAR: Uh huh, do you think you have an addictive personality of any kind?
CARLISLE: I think I can have a tendency to be a little bit OCD --
BEHAR: Yes.
CARLISLE: But it`s something I have to watch. I think, yes, when I didn`t take care of it the first time around, I stopped doing drugs for about five years. I mean I had my version of the program. I sponsored myself. And I was allowed to do hallucinogens and pills and a little pot. I just couldn`t --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s good to be clean.
CARLISLE: My program. But I never took care of -- I never bothered to do the work. So that`s why it also went after food. It`s just like shopping or whatever.
BEHAR: Right, some people find religion.
CARLISLE: They do.
BEHAR: That never happened to you?
CARLISLE: No, not until the end, really, no.
BEHAR: There`s one more question before we go. The Go-Gos split up in 1985. Some of your girls blamed your husband for that, like the Yoko Ono of it? What is that about?
CARLISLE: Well, there was a problem with Yoko Ono but you know I think that there was a lot of change and dynamics when there was -- some of the girls in the band got sober and I had met Morgan at that time. So it was good to pin everything on him.
BEHAR: I see. Kind of like the Beatles a little bit.
CARLISLE: Kind of, I guess.
BEHAR: But does he screech like Yoko?
CARLISLE: I never know. No, he`s too busy on the golf course.
BEHAR: All right, Belinda thank you for joining me tonight. Her memoir is called "Lips Unsealed," and it`s out now.
All right. When we come back, Melissa Etheridge.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need, I fear this love. I want -
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: She has two Grammy`s, an Oscar, four kids and an ex-wife.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: She also has a new album out called "Fearless Love" which her teenage daughter actually named, I hear. Here to tell me all about it is the singer and wonderful talented Melissa Etheridge. Yes, you do have an ex-wife.
MELISSA ETHERIDGE, GRAMMY AWARD WINNING SINGER: I have two ex-wives. One formal.
BEHAR: You have two ex-wives?
ETHERIDGE: One formal I guess. The other one, you know, we-
BEHAR: You weren`t married twice, were you?
ETHERIDGE: No, no. I wasn`t married, but I feel like I was married twice, oh, there you go - so.
BEHAR: Why, were you hit and left by the side of the road?
ETHERIDGE: No, no, no -
BEHAR: That`s what it feels like?
ETHERIDGE: No. I`m not going there with you. You could make me go there, and I`m not going there.
BEHAR: OK, I won`t.
ETHERIDGE: OK.
BEHAR: Before I talk about, I want to talk about your marriage though because you broke up with Tammy Lynn Michaels.
ETHERIDGE: Uh huh.
BEHAR: So how are you doing since the break up? How long is that? I mean you were together a while -
ETHERIDGE: Yes.
BEHAR: You were married legally in California, right?
ETHERIDGE: Yes. We were married seven years ago. And together nine years. You know, it`s a good, long marriage.
BEHAR: By today`s standards, it is.
ETHERIDGE: Yes, by today`s -
BEHAR: Our parents`, no.
ETHERIDGE: No, I know.
BEHAR: Yes.
ETHERIDGE: As any break-ups are, it`s up and down. And you know we have two children together, so that`s a lot of -- you really have to work things out. You have to find that place that it works.
BEHAR: Well, she`s not -- I know I`m delving into personal business - - but I`m fascinated by this.
ETHERIDGE: There you go, Joy, hard-hitting news.
BEHAR: She said that the breakup was mutual. You said that the break up was mutual. Were you on Oprah or something?
ETHERIDGE: Yes.
BEHAR: And then she wrote on her blog, in this long, meandering poem that it`s not mutual. That you - please stop telling the press it was mutual, she said in her poem. So what about it, was it mutual or not?
ETHERIDGE: Well no, I think everybody understands why we are not together because we don`t see things the same. You know, it`s like -
BEHAR: You thought it was mutual, she didn`t.
ETHERIDGE: Yes, you know, it`s -- those things are so hard to really discuss. And she absolutely has a blog that she can you know, put her feelings and thoughts in.
BEHAR: Yes.
ETHERIDGE: And I respect that.
BEHAR: Good for her.
ETHERIDGE: Yes, and here I am talking to you.
BEHAR: But you know, the thing about this, I am talking to you about it on television. I think that makes it harder because you`re in the public eye and everybody wants to know everything. And you`re such a forthcoming person so you`ll going there.
ETHERIDGE: That`s the thing. I`ve been forthcoming about my relationships. I always thought I was doing something good for the gay community and like gay teens. I know when I was a gay teen growing up, there was no couples. There was no gay people, you know. It was --
BEHAR: Well they were there. You just didn`t know it.
ETHERIDGE: Yes. It was pretty dark. So I`ve always tried to say, hey, look, this is the relationship. And you make that so public. Then all of a sudden, OK, here`s t breakup. You have to be there for all of it.
BEHAR: It kind of goes with the territory, I guess.
ETHERIDGE: It does go with the territory.
BEHAR: But you know tell me about the story of your daughter. What`s her name, the daughter who named Asia.
ETHERIDGE: Bailey, Bailey is my firstborn. She`s 13 now. And of course, she knows everything. She knows everything about music. And it was the first time, both of them, my 13-year-old and 11-year-old were interested in what I was doing.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
ETHERIDGE: Interested in, you know, are you writing? Can I hear the songs and they saw the whole process. And so Bailey said, what`s the name of the album? I said, I`m thinking of Songs of Fear and Love. She said, that`s way too long. Well how about fearless? She said, Mom, Taylor Swift`s album is fearless. She said, well, what about Fearless Love? And I said, oh my god, that`s great.
BEHAR: She earned her keep.
ETHERIDGE: Yes, I`ll feed her again for a year.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Is this the child who the sperm donor, David Crosby?
ETHERIDGE: Uh-huh.
BEHAR: That`s so interesting. I remember hearing about that. I thought, that kid`s going to be musical. Because it`s your natural child, right?
ETHERIDGE: No it was actually Julie and David. I`m not blood related but I have certainly influenced.
BEHAR: Yes well nature and nurture coming together there.
ETHERIDGE: That`s exactly, you know environment and the genes all happening about music. And they go -- the school they go to is very musical and it`s very natural. So yes, they are musical.
BEHAR: Two kids?
ETHERIDGE: I have -- yes, two kids. I have -
BEHAR: Bailey -
ETHERIDGE: Bailey, that kid, and then I have the twins with Tammy, two 3-year-olds.
BEHAR: Oh, you have four children, and you have custody now of all of them?
ETHERIDGE: I have, I share custody.
BEHAR: Share custody, but -- so the David Crosby thing, worked, I mean the kids are musical?
ETHERIDGE: They are musical and they`re beautiful. I know people used to tease about -- I know, I know. Believe me, I know. And it wasn`t looking for a handsome guy.
BEHAR: He`s talented, looks wise -
ETHERIDGE: But you know what, the heart, he and his wife, Jan, just the gift, it was really amazing. And I`m telling you, someday you will see my children. You will go, holy cow. They`re gorgeous.
BEHAR: Well I can see that David Crosby could have been very -- I remember the old days. Steven Stills, he gorgeous in his day, he was a sexy guy. Now you also were diagnosed with breast cancer six years ago. And I read that you called cancer a wakeup call. A near-death experience does change you, right?
ETHERIDGE: It totally does and it should.
BEHAR: Yes.
ETHERIDGE: And I think, I`m one of those woo people that think that`s what cancer is about. It`s about - it`s a symptom. It`s your body goes out of balance from stress, from what we put into our bodies -
BEHAR: Smoking -
ETHERIDGE: From food, smoking -- all those things that poison that we subject our physical bodies too. And when cancer came and then they took it out, it was like, oh I get it. And it set me on a much healthier path.
BEHAR: Uh huh, some cancer is genetic though.
ETHERIDGE: Yes.
BEHAR: A lot of it, they have a certain kind of gene for breast cancer et cetera that they --
ETHERIDGE: And yes, I agree. I also think that what we`re going to find next is that genes are not like, this is the blue print of your life and this and that. Genes are affected by environment also.
BEHAR: Probably now your first album was over 20 years ago, right?
ETHERIDGE: Oh my goodness.
BEHAR: Right?
ETHERIDGE" Yes.
BEHAR: How has music changed since you first started? A lot, right?
ETHERIDGE: Music and the music business. They`re having a hard time right now sort of getting in with the, you know, the Itunes and digital music.
BEHAR: Oh yes, you can`t sell an album anymore, right.
ETHERIDGE: Yes, it`s really, I still make an album. I still make my music in that way. I think of it, there it is right there.
BEHAR: Here, I have it. That`s your album, "Fearless Love."
ETHERIDGE: I still make my albums and think of it as -- that`s an art form. It`s been an art form for decades.
BEHAR: Yes, right.
ETHERIDGE: And so I know that people will just buy singles. But, you know, there is still an art form to the album.
BEHAR: And you want the thing to hold.
ETHERIDGE: A lot of people like that, yes.
BEHAR: I like this, I like that a lot. You know we were talking about the gay thing before. I wanted to ask you about Elton John performed for Rush Limbaugh at his wedding. Did you know that?
ETHERIDGE: No, I did not know that.
BEHAR: You didn`t know?
ETHERIDGE: Yes.
BEHAR: He performed -
ETHERIDGE: Did Rush ask him?
BEHAR: Yes. He paid him a million dollars.
ETHERIDGE: Oh, well, I -- hello. Rush, call me.
BEHAR: Would you do it for a million bucks?
ETHERIDGE: I don`t know. Wow, I`d have to actually think about it.
BEHAR: Yes, how about 2 million?
ETHERIDGE: I --
BEHAR: You`d have to think about it less.
ETHERIDGE: Yes.
BEHAR: No, it`s like -- it`s an interesting dynamic, discussion. Because he`s giving it to his charity, Elton John.
ETHERIDGE: There you go.
BEHAR: He`s not going to keep the money. And you know, some people say, he can cough up a million out of his own bank account. What did he have to go there to perform for this homophobic guy?
ETHERIDGE: Might feel good to take it from there, you know, sort of give to here, sort of Robin Hood like, you know.
BEHAR: I thought it was an interesting thing he did -
ETHERIDGE: I think it was interesting --
BEHAR: That must have been some wedding, it was his fourth. Women will go for anything.
ETHERIDGE: I know.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: It`s true, not gay women, straight women.
ETHERIDGE: All of them, I`m telling you.
BEHAR: Straight women -- gay women will go for anything. No, the gay guys I know are very picky, they have a list.
ETHERIDGE: Yes.
BEHAR: You know this and this. They have a list. Women, he`s all right. He`s wearing pants. I`ll take him. The toupee has to go, however. Let`s see, now, you are going out on tour, where are you going to go?
ETHERIDGE: Oh my goodness, I start actually in Europe. I leave tomorrow for Europe. And I do three shows. Then come back to America, start on the East Coast, playing New York City, July 14th.
BEHAR: Oh, where?
ETHERIDGE: The United Palace Theater. Uptown -
BEHAR: Up town.
ETHERIDGE: I`ve never played there, it`s all new.
BEHAR: Uptown. It`s a new place, yes.
ETHERIDGE: And then moving all the way across to the West Coast. I end up in California in September.
BEHAR: Where in Europe are you going?
ETHERIDGE: I`m doing London, Amsterdam and Berlin.
BEHAR: Very nice, the axis powers, I love it.
ETHERIDGE: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Anyway, thank you so much for doing this.
ETHERIDGE: Oh it`s a pleasure.
BEHAR: You know I love you. She`s great.
ETHERIDGE: I love -
BEHAR: You were fabulous in that concert I saw you.
ETHERIDGE: She saw me live, she said, come see me -
BEHAR: You were just great. You should really catch Melissa live, but if you can`t, her new album "Fearless Love," is out now. OK, when we return, Pat Benatar joins me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: For more than 30 years Pat Benatar has been one of the most iconic women in rock `n` roll, paving the way for many who followed her. And in her memoir "Between A Heart And A Rock Place," I love that title, she talks about breaking into the rock `n` roll boys club and everything both good and bad that came with it. So welcome to the show, Pat Benatar. So great to have you here.
BENATAR: I`m happy to be here.
BEHAR: We`re all big fans of yours.
BENATAR: Thanks.
BEHAR: I was reading that you were a working class girl from Long Island.
BENATAR: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: I`m a working class girl from Brooklyn.
BENATAR: That`s right.
BEHAR: And you were going to -- classically trained.
BENATAR: Mm-hmm.
BEHAR: As a singer.
BENATAR: Yes. Eight years.
BEHAR: Mm-hmm. And you had a shot to audition at Juilliard and you did not take it.
BENATAR: No.
BEHAR: Talk about "Hit Me With Your Best Shot."
BENATAR: Yes, yes, you know, I choked at the end. I choked. And my boyfriend at the time who I went on to marry when I was very young, got drafted. And I panicked, and I thought he was going to go to Vietnam and die. So I just -- my choir teacher, Georgia, practically threw herself off the building, the high school roof. And yes, because we`d been planning it for so long.
BEHAR: So you get married instead?
BENATAR: I did.
BEHAR: Why couldn`t you audition and be married?
BENATAR: Because he was leaving. He was going away and I wanted to go. So I couldn`t stay in New York. He went -- I don`t know, Massachusetts.
BEHAR: So you followed your husband, as we all did in those days. Idiots that we were.
BENATAR: Yes.
BEHAR: You know --
BENATAR: I don`t know what I was thinking.
BEHAR: We all did that. I was just talking about this today. How girls today are like really?
BENATAR: Oh my daughters, I have a 25-year-old, 16-year-old. The oldest one is like, I`m so never getting married.
BEHAR: Well it looks like a death sentence. And his name was Dennis Benatar.
BENATAR: Mm-hmm.
BEHAR: And how long did you -- then you got divorced?
BENATAR: Yes.
BEHAR: How long did you last?
BENATAR: Well we were married for eight years, but we split up literally every year. I`d tell the story in the book that you know when I met spider, when I finally met spider, that`s it. We`re done. Then I absolutely did it.
BEHAR: So Spider was an overlap.
BENATAR: He was an overlap. But we were separated one more time, that kind of thing. So --
BEHAR: But you kept Benatar`s name because your name is -- Andrievski.
BENATAR: Andrievski, yes, I had already signed my record deal as Pat Benatar.
BEHAR: What - Pat Benatar is a great name.
BENATAR: Yes.
BEHAR: I love it. So he was valuable in that way?
BENATAR: Yes. And it was penance, penance. He gets to hear it every day.
BEHAR: Poor guy, the other thing I was reading about you is that you as a bank teller at one point.
BENATAR: I did.
BENATAR: I had lots of points, I did, because I had to make money. Even when I was at catch a rising star, I still worked at the Chase Manhattan Bank on 42nd street.
BEHAR: Really?
BENATAR: Mm-hmm.
BEHAR: And that you were inspired as when you were a bank teller by Liza Minnelli. Did she come into the bank or something?
BENATAR: No, I was living in Richmond because he was there. We were there in Richmond, Virginia. And I wasn`t singing. It has been like a year and a half. No singing. You imagine I studied for eight years, and then all of a sudden no singing. So I had to get a job, I had to do something. And I went to Virginia Commonwealth University part time. Then I got a job in the bank. I didn`t know how to do anything. I mean I was a student. You know so they had this thing where they were training tellers and they were training them on a new system. And I tell the story in the book about how I went in there and all these blue-haired ladies, they were darlings. They were these sweet little Southern ladies and I don`t know why I have to learn this new one. It`s perfectly good the way it is. You know but I was from New York and they let me do it because I was 20 years old and I didn`t know how to do anything. So I became a bank teller. And my friends who worked in the bank wanted to go see Liza Minnelli concert.
BEHAR: Ah ha.
BENATAR: And I went with them.
BEHAR: And that did it.
BENATAR: I was just in the Richmond Coliseum and I was looking around thinking I can do this. I can do this, I know it. And I quit my job and I started looking for gigs in Virginia. And it just started from there --
BEHAR: But how did you end up at Catch A Rising Star, which was a comedy club in New York at the time -
BENATAR: That`s right -
BEHAR: For those of you who don`t remember.
BENATAR: Because I had read in the "Richmond Times" dispatch, they did an article about this new genre of clubs, these open mike nights and you could go up there. I have to go back to New York. I was actually doing really well in Virginia. I was in a band called Coxswain`s Army. And they were regionally pretty like - big and we had done a PBS special. And I`m thinking this is great. But I got to get out of here. You know I got to go back to New York. So I was separated again, you know. And I just quit the band, and everyone was flipping out. I went to Catch because I read about it in the paper.
BEHAR: Right and you just --
BENATAR: And I went online. I stood in line like everybody else. I was number 29.
BEHAR: Uh huh because there were singers when I was there also.
BENATAR: Yes but we were filler. You know that. We were there to fill in between. And laugh at the jokes and fill in.
BEHAR: I know, but the singers were good down there. They had a band at that time. It was a great time in New York.
BENATAR: Oh please, so much fun, one of the best times of my life, ever.
BEHAR: I miss it a lot. Believe me. It`s not the same now, it just isn`t. But then you signed with a record company in 1979.
BENATAR: Right.
BEHAR: And you met your husband.
BENATAR: I did.
BEHAR: Neil "Spider" Giraldo. And that was the first meeting between the two of you, right?
BENATAR: Yes he came in -- Mike Chapman he was going to produce part of the record, we had been working on Rick Derringer`s record and Spider --
BEHAR: Rock `n` Roll Hoochy Koo.
BENATAR: Yes and Spider was in a band and he, and Spider was 22 and he was a baby. And I told Mike, you know I got this thing that I had. I wanted to be like Robert Plant and Jimmy Page and Keith and Mick. And he goes, I got this kid. He`s 22 years old. I think he`s exactly what you`re looking for. I`m going to send him down. So he sent him down. And he walked in the door and I was with Newman. And we were standing there --
BEHAR: Rick Newman from Catch A Rising Star.
BENATAR: Rick -- and he was my manager then.
BEHAR: Who happens to be sitting here by the way.
BENATAR: He`s sitting here right now.
BEHAR: In the room.
BENATAR: Along with Spider. And Spider walked in. And I was trying to be like uber cool. And he walked in and I pretty much fell on the ground. What is wrong with you? I was like -- I saw the father of my children. I knew the moment I saw him. It was just like getting hit with a two by four.
BEHAR: Wow, wow. He must have been something.
BENATAR: Ooh, honey. He still is.
BEHAR: But he was dating -- maybe we`ll have to put him on camera soon. So the women can take a look at him. But he was dating Linda Blair when you first met. When he told you that he thought Blair was cheating on him. Did your head spin?
BENATAR: No, but I wanted to spin hers. I was like, give him to me. I love him. You know? But it took a little bit of time with it. And it all worked out for the best. Thirty one years and two children later, here we are.
BEHAR: Wow and you`ve been together a lot. I mean you work together, you tour together. You are making music together, you sleep together. Don`t you ever get sick of him?
BENATAR: No. He does drive me crazy, but I never get sick of him.
BEHAR: You never get sick of him. We`ll be back in a minute with more with the lovely Pat Benatar.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENATAR: What you trying to do to my heart you go around telling lies and now you want to compromise what you trying to do to my heart, you better run you better hide you better leave from my side yeah --
BEHAR: That was 1981 when a young female rocker named Pat Benatar made history becoming the first woman to ever appear on MTV. That`s right.
BENATAR: Crazy.
BEHAR: That`s right and she`s back here with me. That video we just showed was the second video the air on the first day of MTV.
BENATAR: Mm-hmm.
BEHAR: Did you have any idea that day how big MTV was going to be?
BENATAR: No, we were all sitting there. We were in Oklahoma waiting to do a festival called rock-lahoma. And we were just sitting there in a hotel room, you know, some crappy little dumpy hotel, somewhere in Oklahoma.
BEHAR: Yes.
BENATAR: And it was, the joke was that the hotel we were in was one of the five places that actually signed up for MTV that day.
BEHAR: Really?
BENATAR: So it came on. Newman called me and said, you know, Spider and I were sitting there. And he said, it`s going to be on. They`re going to air it for the first time today.
BEHAR: That`s exciting.
BENATAR: And we just sat there and just jaws dropped. Because they only had like eight. And they played them 24 hrs a day. There was no filler in between. And in a week, our lives -- everyone`s life changed. It just changed.
BEHAR: A lot of people say that MTV changed the music industry.
BENATAR: It did, absolutely.
BEHAR: Because it became such a visual medium all of a sudden.
BENATAR: Absolutely.
BEHAR: You know people like Ella Fitzgerald would never be a star with MTV, people from that period -
BENATAR: Right, right.
BEHAR: Because they just weren`t hot enough.
BENATAR: Right, it just changed everything.
BEHAR: But you were. You were hot enough. And so I think it helped you. But you had talent and you looked great.
BENATAR: Thanks.
BEHAR: But nowadays, you know, like Lady Gaga and even Madonna, who really changed a lot of the way we see music, those women seem to be upping the ante constantly. Gaga is constantly in some kind of wacky outfit. Their videos are considered blasphemous by some groups.
BENATAR: Right, right, very provocative. Very.
BEHAR: Do you think you could function in this particular atmosphere now if you were just starting?
BENATAR: No, no, that was always there. Maybe it wasn`t quite as extreme, but there were always extreme people. I mean think about Rick James and all the crazy stuff he did and everything.
BEHAR: Yes.
BENATAR: So it was always there and I would have never been able to do that and I wouldn`t be able to do it today either.
BEHAR: It wasn`t your thing.
BENATAR: No it`s too far for me. You know I kind of like to straddle the middle, I`m kind of there.
BEHAR: I read this thing that you wrote, I actually read in your book, you write that the head of your record company at Chrysalis. Is that how you say that?
BENATAR: Chrysale.
BEHAR: This guy said to you, quote, "I hope you don`t think that people actually coming to your concerts to hear you sing."
BENATAR: Mm-hmm.
BEHAR: What was that about? Sexism?
BENATAR: We were arguing -- oh, yes. Sexism was rampant the whole time. But we were arguing because I had wanted to lighten up my image a little bit, let go of it. And they were holding on really tightly. Because you know they had a marketing tool that was foolproof. It was working beautifully. They couldn`t understand why on earth I would want to change it now that we had it. I just wanted to back up a little. It was getting boring. You know I invented it but then it got boring and I wanted to do something else.
BEHAR: Yes.
BENATAR: So we were arguing over the new record cover. And he told me if they didn`t reshoot it, they would shelf the record. That`s when he said that, you don`t think they`re actually coming to hear you sing.
BEHAR: Uh huh, well you know -
BENATAR: It was part of a long laundry list of the things that happened during that era.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
BENATAR: You know, how people treated women still.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, you know, I`m so thrilled that you`re still working and that you`re still great, you still love to sing and you`ll be touring.
BENATAR: Yes.
BEHAR: And I`m so happy to have you on the show. Good luck with your book.
BENATAR: And congratulations to you, sister.
BEHAR: Thank you. OK the book is called "Between A Heart And A Rock Place." and it`s out today. Good night, everybody.
END
