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Connecticut Family Murder; Leann Rimes Comes Clean on Cheating; Life after Infidelity
Aired September 16, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, a horrific home invasion. A Connecticut man is beaten while his wife and daughters are murdered but did police wait too long to act? That harrowing question coming to light at the trial of one of the accused.
Then as country singer Leann Rimes comes clean about her cheating scandal Joy will examine how couples cope after an affair.
Plus, Mel B. stops by to talk about her evolution from Scary Spice to Eddie Murphy`s arm candy to reality star.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Tonight we start with an awful story out of Connecticut. The sole survivor of a 2007 home invasion that left his entire family dead bravely took the stand this week in the capital murder trial of the accused mastermind Steven Hayes.
Hayes and another man allegedly invaded the home, tied up the family, demanded ransom and then set the house on fire. Dr. Petit, badly beaten, managed to escape in an effort to get help. Before her death, the doctor`s wife alerted a bank teller to her family`s dire situation. Listen to the teller`s 911 call.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have a lady who is in our bank right now who says that her husband and children are being held at their house. The people are in a car outside the bank. She is getting $15,000 to bring out to them, that if the police are told they will kill her children and the husband. Her name is Jennifer Petit.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BEHAR: That call was made at 9:21 a.m. Police arrived at Petit`s home almost 30 minutes later. Why did they take so long?
Here to discuss this story are Jean Casarez, correspondent for "In Session" on TruTV; Vito Colucci, private detective and former Connecticut police officer; plus Brian Russell, forensic psychologist and attorney.
Jean, I just gave you a quick sort of wrap-up of what happened. Can you fill us in quickly on other details of that day?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Sure. And, you know, the thing is, this could happen to anybody. All right.
Jennifer and her two daughters, Michaela and Hayley, the beautiful family you`ve seen on the screen, they went to the supermarket the night before. This is in July of 2007 to get stuff for dinner. Then the whole family had dinner together. They all go to bed. Dr. Petit falls asleep on the sofa because he is reading.
At 3:00, prosecutors say the two defendants made entry into the house. They`d had a history of larceny and burglary. Dr. Petit, apparently, is who they got first and allegedly started beating him with a baseball bat until he is just totally bloody. Tied him up, took him down to the basement and tied him to a pillar, you know probably something that was foundational for the home.
BEHAR: Right.
CASAREZ: Then they go to the bedrooms and they get the wife and the daughters and tie up the daughters but with the wife they say, we want money. You`re going to go to the bank and get us $15,000. So she goes to the bank.
Now, one defendant allegedly got some gasoline in the interim time. There`s hours that pass, Joy. And they`re getting jewelry and everything they can of value from the home.
BEHAR: Hours are passing, not while she is in the bank.
CASAREZ: No. But when they`re in the home.
BEHAR: Yes.
CASAREZ: I think all are tied up at that point.
BEHAR: Right.
CASAREZ: But ultimately she gets the money. They go back to the house. At this point the SWAT teams are out there because the bank called 911.
BEHAR: Right.
CASAREZ: So SWAT teams are everywhere. But they don`t go in --
BEHAR: Because?
CASAREZ: I think that`s how they`re trained. You negotiate a hostage situation. What they didn`t realize was that the defendants allegedly were putting accelerant gasoline all over the home.
Then they get in the car to make a getaway. They don`t get too far because so many law enforcement are there. But then the house goes up. And the father escaped, Dr. Petit. The only reason he survived, he hopped out of the basement and rolled himself, Joy, to the house next door.
BEHAR: How he got out is another mystery.
He must have been so full of adrenalin at that point. Ok.
Brian, what do you think attracted these people to this family in the first place?
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: It looks like a crime of opportunity to me, Joy. It looks like they were looking for a wealthy family and they thought they could leave there with money.
BEHAR: Probably.
CASAREZ: Yes. And Steven Hayes allegedly saw them at the grocery store at 9:00, followed them home, then came back with his buddy.
BEHAR: So they scoped it out. They scoped it out. They figured he`s a doctor. They have money. They live in a nice house.
CASAREZ: Yes.
BEHAR: They`re kind of petty creeps in a certain way.
RUSSELL: Right.
BEHAR: Ok. Vito, let`s talk about the cops` response. The teller gave the cops a lot of information but they weren`t able to stop it. As Jean just pointed out the SWAT teams were everywhere. They didn`t go in. Do you agree with what she just said?
VITO COLUCCI, PRIVATE DETECTIVE: Oh, yes. But, Joy, here is what you have to understand, being a former police officer. The SWAT teams, whether it`s a bank, a hospital, or a school, where have you ever seen any -- the SWAT teams storm a place right away? They have to control. They have to see what`s going on in the situation. That`s what they did on this. And the public is so outraged that they didn`t go knocking down doors, running in with their guns drawn.
BEHAR: Yes.
COLUCCI: They`re talking about a half hour time frame where they`re saying the captain did nothing. That is not true. The captain went to the scene. He watched it. He kept all the marked squad cars away from the scene so the bad guys couldn`t look out the window. And then he called on the SWAT team to get there.
And people need to realize a lot of members aren`t working that day. A lot of people live in other towns. They have to get together and get to the scene and go from there.
BEHAR: Ok. Jean, what about the firemen? Is there some question about their response time also?
CASAREZ: I think it was slow. Slower than people thought it should be. And I think this case is going to be a training exercise now across the country because should hostage negotiation take a different slant because of something like this? Lives could have been saved. Let`s face it. Right?
BEHAR: Right.
CASAREZ: Because it`s the fire that killed at least two out of the three victims.
BEHAR: Let me ask you. Let me ask you, Jean. Could he have a case against anything -- Dr. Petit -- does he have any kind of case against the fire department, against the police department?
CASAREZ: You know, sometimes I see that.
BEHAR: Is that true?
CASAREZ: But he is such a part of that community I don`t think he is going to go that way. I think he`s going to try to get the death penalty to stay on the record in Connecticut because they`ve been toying with doing away with the death penalty but because of him they`re keeping it.
BEHAR: Do you think guys think he should get the death penalty -- these guys should get the death penalty?
COLUCCI: Yes. Without a doubt.
RUSSELL: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Everybody is for the death penalty here today. Wow.
RUSSELL: For these guys, yes.
BEHAR: I didn`t used to be for it but sometimes I think it`s better. Just get them off the face of the earth.
(CROSSTALK)
CASAREZ: And they live every day of their lives wondering if today is the day I`m going to get the lethal injection.
BEHAR: That`s good. Everybody is afraid to die so why should they be spared that moment? Now, Brian, you`re a therapist, aren`t you, a forensic psychiatrist, right?
RUSSELL: I`m a psychologist. Yes.
BEHAR: Psychologist. Ok. Well, Dr. Petit has been testifying this week and I hear that there was quite a -- there were quite a few breakdowns in the jury and the whole thing was just sad and horrible.
Is there some kind of help that you could give someone like this who has to go reliving all of this over again? What can you do?
RUSSELL: It`s unimaginable -- it`s just unimaginable, joy. Everybody is different. The goal in working with somebody like this is to help them to find meaning in going on. And some folks like Marc Klaas and John Walsh have found meaning in becoming advocates for victims and other potential victims.
And as Jean pointed out there is certainly opportunity for advocacy here because both of these perpetrators, Joy, were out early on prior convictions. This is -- I am diagnosing the system as insane right here tonight on your show that we`re letting these people out. These guys never should have been available to do this.
BEHAR: That is a whole other conversation. The jails are packed -- prisons are packed full in this country. You have to let some people out I would assume, right Jean?
CASAREZ: their rap sheets are unbelievable. But they never killed anybody. It was larceny. It was burglary. But, Joy, I think they need to eliminate they felt these witnesses because if they lived then they would go and tell the tale of everything they did.
BEHAR: That`s probably why they burned the house, right?
COLUCCI: Without a doubt.
BEHAR: You`ve seen this before.
COLUCCI: Without a doubt. They`ve been in jail so many times they just made a conscientious decision. We are not going back there so we have to eliminate the kids, the mother, the father, whatever.
BEHAR: Yes. Ok, Jean, do these suspects have any defense at all? I read that one of them has had seizures this week.
CASAREZ: Right. Yes.
BEHAR: And urinated all over himself.
CASAREZ: Court ended early today because of his health but that is not going to be a defense I don`t think in the guilt phase.
RUSSELL: Yes, no way.
CASAREZ: It`s going to be two things. Number one, he is going to point the finger at the other defendant because they`ve been separated for trial.
He is the one that was the mastermind. It wasn`t supposed to get out of control like this. In fact, we heard that in the opening statements.
Secondly, they`re fighting for their lives. Joy, they know that they`re going to be convicted. They are fighting for their lives in the death penalty phase.
BEHAR: This guy Hayes and his suspected partner had been in trouble in the past with the law. Am I correct, Vito?
COLUCCI: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: Tell me about it. I mean we said it before but what exactly did they do? Petty larceny did you say?
CASAREZ: Yes. Felony larceny and burglary time after time after time.
COLUCCI: Yes. Burglaries, larcenies, things of that nature; they had never gone as far as killing anybody but you know, you go back and forth to prison a lot of times, you don`t want to go back there again, Joy.
BEHAR: I know. But that`s the question. These are petty criminals. What made them decide to rape these girls and the mother and then to kill them? What was the snap that happened here?
(CROSSTALK)
RUSSELL: Joy, there is not a snap. There`s not a snap.
This is how this goes. This is how people progress when they start to experiment and play around with these impulses to victimize others in the teenage years. They progress and escalate over time until they are stopped.
Joran Van Der Sloot is a great example. He was going to keep victimizing people until he was literally caged and that`s what we have to learn as society.
Slapping on the wrist over and over and over sends these people the message that we don`t take their violence and their victimization of others very seriously until they do something like this. We`ve got to come down a lot harder a lot sooner in the lives of these people.
COLUCCI: Then, Joy, we don`t know what other crimes they have committed that they were not caught at either.
BEHAR: That`s a good point.
COLUCCI: So keep that in mind.
BEHAR: That`s a very good point. Thank you very much, guys. This is a terrible story.
We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW the latest on the big upset from last night`s "America`s Got Talent" finale.
And Mel B. drops by to talk about her transformation from "Spice Girl" to star of her own reality series.
Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Beautiful country singer falls in love with handsome TV actor and have a whirlwind romance; what could possibly go wrong? Well, for one their spouses found out.
Country star Leann Rimes opens up to "Shape" magazine about her cheating saying, "I think any relationship is hard to get out of and I don`t think the way I did it was right."
So what happens to couples after infidelity and can a relationship survive?
Here now to discuss this all important topic is the author of the "New York Times" best seller "The Truth About Cheating, Why Men Stray" M. Gary Neuman and Mary Joe Eustace, the author of "Divorce Sucks" who was on the wrong end of an affair after her ex-husband Dean McDermott cheated on her with Tori Spelling.
Ok. Leann -- Gary, Leann has also said that she takes responsibility for everything she`s done but she doesn`t regret the outcome because she`s happy with this other guy now.
Is this her owning up to the cheating and does this actually help the healing, Gary?
M. GARY NEUMAN, AUTHOR, "THE TRUTH ABOUT CHEATING: WHY MEN STRAY": Well, it definitely helps the healing for the ex. I mean, clearly, when you are cheated on, you know, you`ve been lied to. You know it in your gut. Finally when the cheater comes forward and says, "I did wrong, it was my mistake," it definitely helps you move along and feel a little better. It doesn`t take away that you know all the horror that`s gone on.
But the fact that she has now moved on and the fact that she thinks somehow that this relationship that began in this incredibly dysfunctional, inappropriate way is now suddenly going to become functional and wonderful and loving long term, it`s like miraculous for that to happen and generally it does not happen.
BEHAR: Oh, so the second, when you cheat on your spouse and you hook up with someone else and you get married and have children with that second person it doesn`t work out?
NEUMAN: It generally does not work out.
BEHAR: Really.
NEUMAN: Well, first of all, second marriages have higher divorce rates than first marriages.
BEHAR: Really.
NEUMAN: And you have to imagine that --
BEHAR: Why? Why?
NEUMAN: Well, why? Because, number one, everybody gets out of that first marriage thinking, why did it go wrong? Because either my spouse was crazy or I was young and stupid, that`s what they all say. Nothing about, "hey, something with me, what do I have to change? What do I have to shift in order to become a better spouse?"
Plus, remember in that --
BEHAR: I think that`s absolutely right. That`s right, because I was married and divorced --
NEUMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: -- and my second one worked out very well because I really did take the blame for a lot of the things that went on there. You have to do that.
NEUMAN: It`s different.
BEHAR: Yes.
NEUMAN: Exactly. When you really look at yourself and you really see what caused -- what got me there? What did I do wrong in my marriage? Because the real changes, the practical changes you have to make in the next relationship or hopefully you`re able to reunite with your actual spouse, they really have to be a different feel.
Our marriages, we don`t spent time on them, the average couple, U.S. couple spends less than 15 minutes a day talking alone on a daily average. Imagine, Joy, that that primarily is talking about rent money and diapers and vomit if it is at all, you know?
BEHAR: Yes.
NEUMAN: So we don`t put any time and energy and, hey --
BEHAR: Right.
NEUMAN: -- when somebody else comes along and they look good and you don`t have to share a bathroom with them yet, you know what I`m saying?
BEHAR: Yes.
NEUMAN: All of a sudden things start to look pretty good.
BEHAR: Ok, Mary Jo, now Tori and Dean --
MARY JO EUSTACE, AUTHOR, "DIVORCE SUCK": Yes.
BEHAR: -- your ex-husband they met shooting a Lifetime movie, you know that?
And coincidentally so did Leann and Eddie. Do you think its Lifetime TV that`s causing these breakups?
EUSTACE: I do. And don`t get me started on Lifetime movie. And first of all, they`re all shot in Canada where I`m from and the basic plot that somebody gets killed and stuffed in the garbage right?
BEHAR: Yes.
EUSTACE: -- and then the wife or the baby-sitter does it.
That`s kind of the Lifetime movie. You know and I made some joke that they`re aimed at women with learning disabilities and I got in a whole lot of trouble but the Lifetime Movie seems to be the deal, it seems to be the crunch.
And I guess they`re shot in 17 days and, you know, a lot of love and lust happens and these people get together after a Lifetime Movie. And the thing about my Lifetime Movie is it was shot in Canada and a lot of people worked on that crew who also worked on my cooking show.
So a lot of people knew about it before I did. So I really hate Lifetime Movies.
BEHAR: Ok, ok.
EUSTACE: I really hate them.
BEHAR: All right, now the thing that was interesting is that Eddie Cibrian`s ex-wife had an idea when they were -- the four -- the two couples were out to dinner one night. Apparently -- this is my information -- that she said to him, what was up with you and Leann? You know, you were kind of flirting. And of course, he denied, denied, denied. And then they caught them kissing and the whole thing came apart.
Gary, do you think that women just have more of an intuition about these types of thing or is the old saw -- the wife is the last to know the real truth of it?
NEUMAN: No, I think women have a better intuition than men do. Women, let`s face it, they`re conditioned. I think since biblical times, right, that men could cheat, spread the seed, the whole "men are pigs" kind of thing.
So sometimes they do feel it in their guts. Men don`t feel it as much. I have new research coming out where 62 percent of the cheating women have yet to tell their husbands or admit to it. So they`re good at lying and the men don`t even ask, they don`t even pick up on it.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
NEUMAN: So I always say, you know, we can give all those lists which I do about how do you know your man is cheating? Or what have the cheating men told me, but I always tell women it`s your gut, your gut is the best indicator --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Right.
NEUMAN: -- and barometer as far as whether something is going on.
EUSTACE: Yes. Exactly.
BEHAR: Ok. How is your gut, Mary -- Mary Jo? How was your gut?
EUSTACE: Well, my gut, I was -- I was at home in Los Angeles. He was only gone for two and a half weeks and we just adopted a baby so I was sleep-deprived with a 7-week-old baby. And the first week I had a lot of calls but then I couldn`t get in touch with him at all which was highly unusual.
He was doing a lot of biking. So it`s kind of hard to find him and I called a few times at about 3:00 in the morning and he wasn`t in his hotel room and I thought perhaps he was shooting.
And I`ve never, ever suspected anything before but I must admit I thought something seems a little off. Something does seem a little off.
BEHAR: Something was off.
EUSTACE: I`ve never ever -- I just felt this was not normal.
BEHAR: He started using more cologne that night or he started doing push-ups when he never did them before, little tell-tale signs.
Let`s go on with this conversation when we come back. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel and we`re talking about life after infidelity. You know, some people stay after an affair and some people don`t. Hillary Clinton stayed, we all know that. Sandra Bullock is out. Elin Woods out.
Why is it, besides kids and money, Gary, tell me why do people leave and why do they stay?
M. GARY NEUMAN, AUTHOR, "THE TRUTH ABOUT CHEATING": Gary: Well, one of the reasons I think they leave is when somebody is a serial cheater, it`s happened so many times, and they have a cavalier attitude about it afterwards. There is a big difference.
As a therapist we know who has a chance of making it and who doesn`t. The man or woman who has cheated and who is deeply remorseful and regretful wants and is willing to be on that tight leash for a while and know where their whereabouts and being an open book. That`s a big step forward.
The people who are kind of sorry, you know, let`s do it. But, you know, after two weeks, you got keep calling me already? When are you going to get over this? There are indicators where you start to see that that`s not going to be good.
But I think a lot of times it depends on how they feel. It also depends on how badly they`ve been lied to. One of the biggest problems with being cheated on, people will say, is how they`ve been lied to. Not only does the cheater say, you know, no, I`m not doing it but they very often try to make you feel like you`re crazy, like how dare you think that? How can you even believe that about me?
And when you perpetrate that long enough, sometimes it is just impossible to get past that knife in the back and get back with that person.
BEHAR: Ok. Mary Jo, would you have been able to stay with Dean after his affair do you think? You had a baby.
EUSTACE: Yes. Yes. It would have been extremely difficult, I think, to stay in the marriage, because trust and betrayal and respect is such a huge part of a relationship. And once that is gone, you know, I think a lot of -- we don`t talk about it, too, when you are so horribly betrayed, you`re angry and upset but I think that there is a huge grieving process that goes along with it, too, and grief is a very strong emotion that lasts for a long, long time.
BEHAR: Right.
EUSTACE: Those really are the tenets of a relationship, trust.
BEHAR: A divorce is kind of like a death in a certain way, I think. And people do go through those stages.
EUSTACE: It absolutely is. Yes. You go through the five stages.
BEHAR: But then I think you come out of it, most women come out of it better than ever.
EUSTACE: I think so, too.
BEHAR: Gary, I`m curious about what you think of marriage counseling because I went through marriage counseling. I think it hurts sometimes because you`re in a safe environment with a shrink and both of you are saying things you wouldn`t normally say like I always thought you were too fat for example or your breath has irritated me and you can never take those words back. Does it work or doesn`t it?
NEUMAN: I, you know, I agree with you. I think there`s a lot of bad therapy out there. I in fact tell people that when you`re together you better use your sensor. You want to meet me alone, which I always spend time alone, then you can speak with no sensor.
But I agree that too often therapists are just having people just speak aloud and they`re not helping them resolve. The difference between successful and failed couples is that successful couples are able to resolve the issue, come to some kind of resolution.
It is the therapist who really has to lead the charge and say to the cheater, look. It is your job now to build trust for the victim, for your spouse.
BEHAR: Right.
NEUMAN: It`s the therapist -- marital therapist, different than the individual, got to be a little more in control, a little more confrontive (ph).
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you, guys. Very interesting conversation.
NEUMAN: Thanks.
BEHAR: Up next we`ll try to figure out what the heck happened last night on the finale of "America`s Got Talent." That little opera singer lost.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: In the finale of "AMERICA`S GOT TALENT" Jackie Evancho, you know that 10-year-old opera singer who sounds like she is 60, well she lost. But not to worry. She is already signed up to do Activia commercials. The winner was a 30-year-old named Michael Grimm. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael Grimm! Congratulations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. So what the heck happened? With me to discuss this and more are actor Peter Facinelli. Clinton Kelly, a co-host of TLC`s "WHAT NOT TO WEAR." And style expert for newwayra.com and Mandy Stadtmiller, features writer with "The New York Post." Did I say your name right Peter?
PETER FACINELLI, ACTOR: Facinelli.
BEHAR: Peter Facinelli. Hey. You`re half Italian. What is the other half?
FACINELLI: No, I`m full Italian.
BEHAR: Full Italian. Very cute.
FACINELLI: Thank you. Are you Italian?
BEHAR: Yes, I am. Where is your family from?
FACINELLI: Northern Italy.
BEHAR: Northern like where?
FACINELLI: Like Trento.
BEHAR: Trento, OK. So I want everyone to hear these two sing. And we`re going to play a clip. So here`s Michael Grimm. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL GRIMM, CONTESTANT, "AMERICA`S GOT TALENT": My life is slipping down, I was holding Bobby`s hand and he was holding mine. We sang every song that driver knew: freedom`s just another word for nothing left to live
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: All right. He`s good. He`s good. But not that interesting. He`s good. It`s just my opinion. But now let`s hear little Jackie. Listen, listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKIE, CONTESTANT, "AMERICAN`S GOT TALENT":
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: All right. What do you think?
FACINELLI: I thought she was lip syncing.
BEHAR: She wasn`t, she is not.
FACINELLI: She`s, that`s amazing.
BEHAR: Isn`t it? But I mean she lost.
FACINELLI: Well, who votes? Does America vote for them?
BEHAR: Yes, America votes. Why did they vote against her do you think?
CLINTON KELLY, CO-HOST, "WHAT NOT TO WEAR": I`m not to bothered by the fact that she lost quite frankly. I think when you`re 10 all you should win is a ribbon not a million bucks. I think we saved the kid`s life. I mean because part of the winning would be a Vegas contract right?
BEHAR: Tacky, tacky.
KELLY: A show in Vegas, a 10-year-old shouldn`t spend a year in Vegas.
FACINELLI: I think she`ll be in Vegas though anyway.
BEHAR: What?
FACINELLI: I think she`s going to be in Vegas anyway. Because even if you come in second she`s going to have a career.
BEHAR: She did come in second. She`ll have something.
MANDY STADTMILLER, FEATURES WRITER, NEW YORK POST: the other guy had a sob story. So --
BEHAR: So does she. She has a sob story.
STADTMILLER: Yes but he won the sob story off.
BEHAR: Do you think that`s why they voted for him?
FACINELLI: Yes.
KELLY: Are you kidding me?
FACINELLI: Maybe America is just not into opera.
BEHAR: That could be.
FACINELLI: I mean he has more of a gritty like Jacob Dylany kind of voice and maybe they just thought that would sell records, they`d buy his CDs. I don`t know
BEHAR: Do you think it`s weird to see like this tiny little munchkin singing in this big operatic voice?
FACINELLI: It looks bizarre like it looks like she is lip syncing but she is very talented.
BEHAR: Yes but I think that`s why they voted against her. A small person like that.
FACINELLI: You sing like a circus act.
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: Discriminating against little people?
BEHAR: It was odd. You don`t want to see, you wouldn`t watch Danny Devito singing Latraviata. When you`re small you need a small act. And I just --
(LAUGHTER)
FACINELLI: You wanted her to do like hopscotch and jump rope?
BEHAR: I just thought it was weird. But I think she should have gotten it because the show is called "AMERICA`S GOT TALENT." That`s talent that kid`s got.
FACINELLI: I think they`re both winners. They`re both winners I say.
BEHAR: Well, we can only have one, Peter.
FACINELLI: All right. Then she should go to the guy and they should split the money.
BEHAR: OK.
STADTMILLER: She gets to sing with her idol. did you see that? That was very moving.
BEHAR: No I didn`t see that.
STADTMILLER: She sang with like another opera singer and that made her life. That`s what you care about when you`re 10.
FACINELLI: If I was the winner I`d give that little girl some money -
BEHAR: You would?
FACINELLI: At least 25 percent of my winnings.
KELLY: I would not give her a penny. She has her whole life ahead of her. She`s got her whole life ahead of her. His career is practically over.
FACINELLI: That`s true.
KELLY: She hasn`t even hit puberty yet.
BEHAR: He`s kind of like a Michael Bolton.
FACINELLI: That`s maybe why they voted for him too because they thought this girl has her whole life ahead of her. This is kind of this guy`s last effort.
BEHAR: And his career is over.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: He`s 30. You`re on your way out at 30.
BEHAR: Wow, I see. OK. Next topic. Gabby Sidibe, the lovely girl from "Precious" is on the cover of "Elle`s" October issue. And it is causing quite a stir. OK here is the cover. Look at the cover, there it is. "Elle" magazine now has four other covers but none of them are cropped like Gabby`s. Let`s see those. OK these are other actresses. They have full body and poor little Gabby is head shot. Now what happen there?
FACINELLI: I think she has the prettiest face so they went in closer.
BEHAR: That is so sweet of you, Peter. Clinton?
KELLY: I will tell you I have been a magazine editor before and there is great pressure to put your advertisers on the cover. OK? Like Prada, Gucci, Dulce and Gabbana.
BEHAR: Right so you wear the whole kitchen sink.
KELLY: Yes you wear that because your advertisers are paying big money. And guess what? She can`t fit in any of those clothes. She can`t fit in Gucci. She can`t. So what is she wearing on the cover?
BEHAR: She can wear jewelry. She can wear Gucci bracelets, a tiara, earrings. Makeup. Necklace.
KELLY: So they do the shot -- that`s why they didn`t do the full body.
FACINELLI: Would they make her something?
KELLY: She is a big girl. Let`s face it. What bothers me the most is why they chose these four women and "Elle" says they chose these four women because they`re changing the world. I mean if Megan Fox and Lauren Conrad are changing the world, I want off. That is bad.
BEHAR: I`m sorry, Clinton. Megan Fox is changing the world. Don`t start with me.
STADTMILLER: I agree with that.
BEHAR: Now let me see. She was also taken out of the "Vanity Fair" young new actresses cover. This girl is getting the shaft because she`s not skinny. That`s what I say. What do you think?
STADTMILLER: Well, the way they cropped her, she looks like even more enormous than she already is. I mean, seriously. It`s awful.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: I think she looks pretty. I really do. But she has a big body. You know, what bothers me is if you want to say diversity, diversity, you got three size zeros and a size 24. That`s not diversity. You also have no age diversity. How about throwing a medium brown person in there? Like an Asian or Hispanic.
BEHAR: Yes, it goes from zero to 24 petit.
KELLY: Right, yes.
FACINELLI: As an actor, as an actor, I have to say that I think she got the good end of the deal. I would want the close-up.
BEHAR: You would want the close up, look at your face. A gorgeous face. Of course you want it.
FACINELLI: But what I`m saying, maybe she`s happy that she has the closeup. Has anyone asked her how she feels about it?
BEHAR: She is, she doesn`t care. She is a great girl. This one has the greatest sense of humor. She is laughing and makes fun of herself on the "c" word on HBO Showtime, whatever it is.
Now, "Elle" magazine says that this whole thing is manufactured debate. I`m just telling you that.
KELLY: So what. Maybe we have. That doesn`t bother me.
FACINELLI: That`s why I was asking if it bothers her. Everyone else is weighing in with opinions but if it doesn`t bother her --
BEHAR: Exactly. I have a whole hour to fill.
STADTMILLER: I think they`re hiding her best asset.
BEHAR: Which is?
STADTMILLER: Her body. You know? I mean everyone`s talking about her body, right? So why not show it?
BEHAR: Why can`t you take the shot of a girl, a big girl like that a little bit far away, that`s all. Take a long shot?
KELLY: What would she be wearing though? That`s the thing. What would she be wearing. It looks like she`s wearing some sort of Indian sari. Like that`s - it`s not what you put on a magazine. Not on the cover.
FACINELLI: You`ll never know.
KELLY: You don`t dream into that - yes.
BEHAR: OK let`s move onto another story which is interesting to me. Did Michelle Obama really say she hated being first lady? OK those are the claims made in a new book about the first lady of France called Le Bruni. A spokeswoman from Mrs. Obama says it never happen. I don`t know if it is true or it`s not true. But she basically saying that Michelle Obama said it is hell being the wife of the United States president. It is just hell. During the conversation. Whether she said it or she didn`t. It is probably hell.
FACINELLI: Did Hillary Clinton say that?
BEHAR: No, no, no, she says Michelle said it. I`m sure.
FACINELLI: I`m sure Hillary Clinton said it at some point. But you know, I think maybe what if she did say it, I mean it could be hell seeing how she`s under a lot of pressure, she`s under a lot of stress.
BEHAR: Right.
FACINELLI: Is that a bad thing to say, I don`t know if it is.
BEHAR: well everything she says is kind of controversial in this country and people are ready to jump on her and her husband. No matter what they do, right Clinton?
KELLY: Absolutely. I mean, what bothers me the most about this is what one first lady says to another first lady in confidence should not be repeated in a book. Like these are two women that share the same experience and they might be able to, you know, commiserate on that. And then, Carla goes and spills it, you know, to the rest of the world. That bothers me.
BEHAR: Yes.
KELLY: But I also think that you know, Michelle Obama might have said it, you know, sarcastically, oh, it`s hell, I`ve got my own plane and then you know, the French have no sense of humor. No like, grasp of sarcasm. So she just thought it was hell.
FACINELLI: That`s what I`m saying, is it such a bad thing that she said it. I don`t think so. I mean she could have had a lot - it`s a lot of stress. It`s a lot of pressure.
BEHAR: But you have a point, remember that book, Mandy do you remember that book "You`ll Never Eat Lunch In This Town Again."
STADTMILLER: I love that book.
BEHAR: That book was so dishy. I mean this woman wrote that - I`m not going to name the names. Actresses don`t wear deodorant, they never wash their hair. She knew this because she was behind the scenes. And the name of the book is, "You`ll Never Eat Lunch In This Town Again," which she never did and then died shortly thereafter.
STADTMILLER: Yes.
BEHAR: I`m just saying. I`m just saying. I mean, she`s dead. I`m just saying, examine Carla, I`m saying be careful what you say about people.
FACINELLI: I don`t think it`s that bad what she said.
BEHAR: Right.
FACINELLI: And so maybe, you know, she didn`t think it was bad to repeat. It`s all taken in context. It`s all how you look at it in context.
STADTMILLER: Right, I think basically you can`t say, tweet, think anything that you don`t want to be on the front cover of a newspaper nowadays.
BEHAR: Exactly. That`s right.
FACINELLI: I take back everything I said in this interview then, I take it back.
BEHAR: OK. Thank you very much, everybody.
FACINELLI: Can we try --
BEHAR: My next thing is coming up, you remember her scary spice, Mel B is up next, OK. You were very good.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEL B., STAR "MEL B: IT`S A SCARY WORLD": So tell me what you want what you really, really want. I`ll tell you what I want what I really, really want oh, tell me what you want what you really, really want. If you want to be my lover you got to get with my friends making love forever friendship never ends.
BEHAR: Mel B. rose to fame as one fifth of the spice girls the best selling girl group of all time. She went on to a solo singing career and reality television first as the host of the weight loss show "DANCE YOUR ASS OFF" and now the star of her new style show "Mel B., It`s A Scary World." take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEL B: Me and you should start a run for charity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A charity run? You`re doing it or I`m doing it?
MEL B: Well we would do it together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not doing it, babe. Angel? Angel?
MEL B: Daddy can do a 10-k?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
MEL B: me too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: With me now is the lovely Mel B. Hi, Mel. How are you?
MEL B: Hi. Good, thank you.
BEHAR: So you and your husband, you`re also in couple`s therapy - marriage counseling on this who right?
MEL B: Yes, we have a family therapist that we`ve been using for the last three or four years called Dr. Sophie and you know therapy a lot of people go oh, my god, their marriage must be a mess but for us it really just helps us understand each other more. Because let`s face it. Women are a bit crazy and guys can be a bit stupid.
BEHAR: Well we were just talking about infidelity a little while ago on this show.
MEL B: Right.
BEHAR: And the shrink that was on said a lot of times marriage counseling does not work because it makes each person say nasty things about the other.
MEL B: Well, not really. I mean, the difference between me and Stephen is we`ve been best friends for eight years so there was nothing we could hide from each other. So when we decided to take it to the next level we were adamant that we wanted to make sure that we were on point with each other. And you know, even me and I`m 35 years old, same age as my husband, I want to make sure I`m being the best wife possible, the best mother possible, and the best version of me and therapy for me with Dr. Sophie because I can`t get away with anything with this guy, he knows me so well, he keeps me on track.
BEHAR: But it`s on camera for everybody to see.
MEL B: Well, I`ve done it for the last three years off camera and I thought what the heck? You know, this reality show, I wanted to show people exactly how our life is. Not once a week. It`s on every episode because that`s what we do and Dr. Sophie once a week and apart from that you just get to see our family.
BEHAR: Well I`m just being worrying for you because Jessica Simpson, Nicholas Shea, they broke up after their reality show. Heidi and Spencer. You know, Jon and Kate. A lot of breakups.
MEL B: Well, I think --
BEHAR: Sigfried and Roy.
MEL B: For me, I like that one. Because he is my best friend and knows everything about me I`ve got, like I said, no secrets and nothing to hide and there are no surprises. I know exactly what I married. My husband is not a saint and he`s a little bit freaky and does my head in just like I`m sure I do his head in half the time but it works. Between us we`ve got three beautiful kids together.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
MEL B: None together yet.
BEHAR: None together yet.
MEL B: No.
BEHAR: One of your children, Angel is actually Eddie Murphy`s child.
MEL B: Yes. And on my first episode I actually kind of explain that situation so it`s done with because I have nine episodes left.
BEHAR: I know.
MEL B: Yes so -
BEHAR: But he denied it at first, didn`t he, Eddy, he said it wasn`t and then you were upset.
MEL B: No, I made him take a DNA test, so end of story.
BEHAR: You made him take DNA test, how did you get him to do that though I`m curious?
MEL B: Well legally he kind of had to.
BEHAR: He had too. I see.
MEL B: Yes.
BEHAR: So then after he took it and you said, hello, you the baby daddy then what happened? Did he step up to the plate?
MEL B: Yes. He stepped up. But you know what, for me to be honest that was so -- I mean, this is like three and a half years ago so I know that I had to kind of talk about it. That`s why I got it out of the way in the first episode and between me and you and everybody else watching, you know, Angel really sees Stephen as her daddy. She is the one that is really bonded with Stephen.
BEHAR: That`s good. Does she see Eddie also? She has to know who her biological father is.
MEL B: Of course. In the first episode I have a whole kind of discussion with Dr. Sophie about that.
BEHAR: So she sees him.
MEL B: yes.
BEHAR: And he is sort of becoming more involved in her life? I mean the more the merrier you know?
MEL B: Yes. I mean, Stephen has a 6-year-old and I also have an 11- year-old so all our kids --
BEHAR: What was the child`s name?
MEL B: Phoenix -
BEHAR: Phoenix right.
MEL B: Is 11 and Giselle is six. So we are like the modern, blended family. But it works.
BEHAR: I like that.
MEL B: So far so good.
BEHAR: OK now the other spice girls have nice names. You have Baby, Posh, Sporty, Ginger. Why are you Scary. I don`t find you scary in the least.
MEL B: Well I`m 35 now. When I was 18 I guess I was more opinionated and less tactful. But I do think there is a bit of scary in every woman when we get a little annoyed.
BEHAR: I see.
MEL B: We kind of --
BEHAR: Not me.
MEL B: Yes, right. I`ve seen you. You say exactly what you want.
BEHAR: Scary oregano. That`s my spice. Do you keep in touch with these other ones?
MEL B: Yes.
BEHAR: Are you friends?
MEL B: We`re very supportive of what each other does and we`re actually in the making of doing a spice girls musical right now with Judy Kramer who created Abba the musical and Abba the theater show. So we`re very in touch with each other which is nice. They`re my best friends. I`ve known them, god, 18 years.
BEHAR: Your whole adult life.
MEL B: Yes, oh, boy.
BEHAR: I was with Victoria the other day. She has a beautiful line.
MEL B: She does.
BEHAR: She is very skinny.
MEL B: I know.
BEHAR: What`s up with that?
MEL B: Well I can`t speak for her. I like my food so I`m curvy. You have to ask her that.
BEHAR: Have you ever seen her eat?
MEL B: Of course I have. I`ve been on tour with her.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Does she swallow the food? A lot of times, a lot of times --
MEL B: I think she swallows --
BEHAR: A lot of times these skinny people just move the food around the plate and everybody thinks they ate and they didn`t.
MEL B: No. We were just on tour in 2008. Trust me she eats. Some people are just skinny like that. I like my curves and my this.
BEHAR: I know. You look gorgeous. We`ll be right back with more with the beautiful Mel B. In a moment.
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Hello, hello. Stay with us friends, we are speaking justice.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEL B: We need to help her out. We need to get her a swim coach.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: yes, because she seems like she`d just jump in and sink.
MEL B: A really hot swim coach with a six-pack and speedos.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Perfect. What is her name? Is she blonde?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m back with Mel B., one of the spice girls. Scary spice. Before we get to a couple twitter questions I have to ask you about "DANCING WITH THE STARS." you were runner-up in the fifth season.
MEL B: Yes.
BEHAR: and it`s still going strong, that show.
MEL B: It is still going strong. I think this season they`ve got such an interesting lineup. Like I know my partner is partnered up with brandy and she is a great singer. They have lots of --
BEHAR: Can she dance?
MEL B: Yes. They`ve got lots of rhythm going on. He just tweeted me saying it`s all going good.
BEHAR: Do you know who Bristol Palin is?
MEL B: Yes.
BEHAR: She is Sarah Palin`s daughter.
MEL B: I know.
BEHAR: The one who preaches abstinence but she`s pregnant.
MEL B: Yes.
BEHAR: OK. Just saying. So she`s asking Kate Gosselin to teach her to dance.
MEL B: Why?
BEHAR: You tell me.
MEL B: That doesn`t make sense.
BEHAR: She was the worst dancer. Would you take advice from Kate Gosselin on dancing?
MEL B: Well, she has eight kids. Maybe she does know how to jump around a little bit with kids. I don`t know. That`s not dancing.
BEHAR: She should try to avoid her husband, dance around that.
MEL B: Uh-oh.
BEHAR: Now we have some twitters for you.
MEL B: I`m obsessed with twitter. Literally. My network said you have to start promoting the show through twitter. I was like oh, I don`t have a twitter account. OK. As soon as I started I got hooked. I`m like this. Do you like my nail polish? What should I wear today? It`s like I`ve become obsessed.
BEHAR: I know. It`ll wear off. It lasts for a while.
MEL B: No it`s lasted for three weeks, Joy. Not good.
BEHAR: Three weeks is nothing.
MEL B: I`m talking like ten, 12 times a day. My husband is getting annoyed.
BEHAR: You know that can cause blindness.
MEL B: It can?
BEHAR: Here`s one. The spice girls are gay icons. Do you support gay marriage.
MEL B: Of course I did. I just did -- I`m not suppose to say this but I will. But I just did the "No Hate" campaign, it`s coming up soon.
BEHAR: Why couldn`t you say it?
MEL B: Because it`s part of episode six. I just destroyed it.
BEHAR: So what? No one is going to care. How does she stay in such great shape. What do you do?
MEL B: I work out. Me and my husband have a very active bedroom life.
BEHAR: Well, excuse me.
MEL B: Just being honest.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: What was life in England like growing up as a mixed child?
MEL B: Well, you know --
BEHAR: Or mixed up child?
MEL B: Mixed, I`m mixed up. My dad is black and my mom is white. So, you know, I had both sides of the story. But growing up in England in a small village in Leads people didn`t know where to put me. Was I black? Was I Asian? Was I this? I had the curly locks. So I kind of had to fight for my own. And I ended up turning out well not half bad. And I`m very proud of my mixed origin. So I turned out OK.
BEHAR: You turned out great.
MEL B: Not bad.
BEHAR: And one more question. We only have a couple minutes left.
MEL B: Oh I like this interview.
BEHAR: I know it`s so much fun here. Did they all know each other before becoming the spice girls someone needs to know this.
MEL B: Three of us did because we were on like the dancing in circuit so me, Victoria, and --
BEHAR: The most successful girl group in the history of music.
MEL B: Hopefully season two of "It`s A Scary World" will all come on there.
BEHAR: OK, yes, so thank you very much for coming on tonight. Lovely to meet you.
MEL B: Thank you.
BEHAR: Mel B, "It`s A Scary World," airs Sunday nights at 9:00 p.m. on the style network.
MEL B: Yes it does.
BEHAR: Good night everybody.
END
